that's my point. People rioted because they thought this was a situation of an unarmed caring husband executed in his car while reading a book by a white officer.
Would they take to the streets if he was a multiple felon carrying a gun killed by a black cop?
My main criticism is of the media who takes these initial stories and runs with them, fueling emotions and hate, but when the stories end up being false or muted, there aren't any apologies.
I don't think one can regulate ones way out of this. Detailed instructions to police wont work if a few of them lack an understanding about the intended relationship between state and citizen in this nation .
Of course, citizens need that also, but obvíousky we invest a lot of power in our police so it's vital that they view their role from a Bill of Rights point of view. Training for all state employees ought to start with that and get those concepts and possible applications down before we preclude judgemts on the scene with bogs of detailed prescriptions. Same goes for all state employees.
This is from the other thread but its how I feel about Protesting Â
Protesting is a way to achieve a right. Civil Rights,ETC.
What right are they achieving? Bad Police? White on Black injustice? Please explain to me Why its necessary to Riot over this? Because the Media wants you too.
IF the Rioters and Looters win what do they win? Are they running a Candidate for Police Chief? Mayor? President?
Are we to abolish the Police Forces and Let the Citizens fend for themselves? (Chicago)? Please explain to me what the protest want to achieve? Civil Rights, Sex Revolution Gay Rights how did they achieve their goals? They took part in the Government around them. So when are the next anti police politicians running?
Rioting for the sake of looting and destroying property is just crime.
This is from the other thread but its how I feel about Protesting Â
Protesting is a way to achieve a right. Civil Rights,ETC.
What right are they achieving? Bad Police? White on Black injustice? Please explain to me Why its necessary to Riot over this? Because the Media wants you too.
IF the Rioters and Looters win what do they win? Are they running a Candidate for Police Chief? Mayor? President?
Are we to abolish the Police Forces and Let the Citizens fend for themselves? (Chicago)? Please explain to me what the protest want to achieve? Civil Rights, Sex Revolution Gay Rights how did they achieve their goals? They took part in the Government around them. So when are the next anti police politicians running?
Rioting for the sake of looting and destroying property is just crime.
It's a business. Hard to sell advertising space by saying "We will have to patiently wait while the investigation and court proceedings run their course."
Don't get me wrong, a responsible and effective media can be a very effective protector against the abuses of government agents - but....what they do is about more than that, and some of it is not good.
Every action of public officials. Police. Teachers, social workers in various agencies, not only do not help enforce principles such as are in the bill of rights, but may often msy inadvertently serve to contradict those principles.
We need to empower officials to make Principled decisions on the spot guided by concepts like rights rather than regulations. In this instance, a sergeant would have just suggested that the team stay in their vehicles as he calmly discussed with the individual or something.
Training is not all that helpful outside of principles and ones being allowed to employ bill if rights based principles on the spot without fear of reprimand.
I'm always hesitant to jump into these dicussions, but I did want to add something that I think people don't consider in these discussions.
Too often we discuss "the police" as if they were one entity and we compare police shooting that occur across various jurisdictions, states, departments, etc...You need to look at all those factors when considering incidents, shootings and the overall narrative. A particular department could be racist, have bias or a lack of training, but the reasoning behind why an officer did or didn't shoot will vary depending on a lot of factors that often aren't considered.
A better analysis would be to consider how that department typically reacts. For example, instead of comparing the Charlotte shooting to Tulsa or any other recent death, compare it to other police interactions in Charlotte, or compare Tulsa to Tulsa. The Dallas PD has been praised on multiple threads, does that mean if a police shooting happens in Dallas in the next few months, they should now be lumped in with what happened in Tulsa?
Of rights inadvertently by regulations is the diminishment of individual rights by the zero sum game of group rights.
If each and every citizen has his bill of rights rights as an individual , than he does not need them as a group member. But as soon as we seek to promote one group over another, we have destroyed that.
Individual liberties does get us to where civil rights promises to get us, but fails.
Regulations,some of which were a backdoor attempt to trade agreed upon bill of rights rights in for a group rights concept not in the Constitution, have left us with neither.
on Tulsa officer (didn't read thru entire thread so this may have been posted already) link - ( New Window )
Some similarities with the female cop being hired as an officer after being incompetent in other police departments and then shooting and killing a White teenager opening his door holding a game controller. I do remember the riot by video game players a few years back after that incident.
Seriously this sounds like a hiring and training problem more than anything else. The race aspect may or may not be an added factor.
In order to accommodate state employees that we don't trust to embody bill if rights concepts or,in order to push agendas not agreed to by the general population, we have moved away from a society based on an idea, bill of rights, to a society based on reams of regulations that seek to direct every action of public employees a.....and ended up with less rights than we had before
Add to that the background investigation of one officer involved in Cleveland shooting - these were not close calls re: the hiring decision.
Some things are BRIGHT RED FLAGS - (i.e., involvement in domestic disturbances, instability, poor employment record especially w/previous law enforcement agency.)
For one thing, our diets of rich carbs, cooked meat and processed food enabled us to get more bang for our buck, nutritionally speaking. For another, the phenomenon of sharing food meant that humans could take time to go after high-risk, high-reward energy sources, like a tasty mammoth.
1) So, if eating animals was an essential part of the journey from Lucy or her cousins to homo sapiens, where along that journey did we lose the right to include animal protein in our diet?
2) For those of you who think we did lose that right somewhere during the trip, would you prefer to still be eating walnuts and bugs?
3) Or are bugs off limits, too?
RE: RE: RE: Whether a mistake or a bad judgement, why shouldn't a police officer Â
While on vacation this past summer in Florida I remember seeing a story about a kid down there. Good lookin, well built kid who worked out. Can't remember the age but the kid was at least in high school. So one day the kid's mom calls 911 and tells the dispatcher that her son is acting strange and she's concerned and he just left the house. The kid proceeds to walk down the street and sees a couple, husband and wife... mid-high 50's... sitting in their garage. The kid... high on PCP (or something like it)... proceeds to attack and kill the couple... and begins to eat the husband's face. Officer shows up to see this going on and tries to tase him. No effect. The kid gets in a knockdown-drag out fight in the garage with a few officers... dogs have little effect... and it takes multiple officers to finally subdue the kid.
Shannon Sharpe said the same thing.
It's easy to cherry pick scenarios and in this situation there are only two I can think of.
The man the black guy was eating was still alive when the solo cop shot him and the victim lived.
The couple the white guy was eating were already dead when a group of deputies encountered the man and they're still dead.
These are two important details. A police officer by himself has much greater chance of needing deadly force against a single offender compared to a group of police officers against a single offender.
The second is an officer can use deadly force to preserve his or another life from serious harm or death. Perhaps in both cases the officer didn't fear for his life or in the 2nd case took the personal decision to risk his life even if deadly force was reasonable.
Are you upset a black cannibal got shot and not a white one? Is this really an example you want to use to show cops are racist?
Personally, I wouldn't have minded if both got shot.
link - ( New Window )
Would they take to the streets if he was a multiple felon carrying a gun killed by a black cop?
My main criticism is of the media who takes these initial stories and runs with them, fueling emotions and hate, but when the stories end up being false or muted, there aren't any apologies.
Of course, citizens need that also, but obvíousky we invest a lot of power in our police so it's vital that they view their role from a Bill of Rights point of view. Training for all state employees ought to start with that and get those concepts and possible applications down before we preclude judgemts on the scene with bogs of detailed prescriptions. Same goes for all state employees.
What right are they achieving? Bad Police? White on Black injustice? Please explain to me Why its necessary to Riot over this? Because the Media wants you too.
IF the Rioters and Looters win what do they win? Are they running a Candidate for Police Chief? Mayor? President?
Are we to abolish the Police Forces and Let the Citizens fend for themselves? (Chicago)? Please explain to me what the protest want to achieve? Civil Rights, Sex Revolution Gay Rights how did they achieve their goals? They took part in the Government around them. So when are the next anti police politicians running?
Rioting for the sake of looting and destroying property is just crime.
What right are they achieving? Bad Police? White on Black injustice? Please explain to me Why its necessary to Riot over this? Because the Media wants you too.
IF the Rioters and Looters win what do they win? Are they running a Candidate for Police Chief? Mayor? President?
Are we to abolish the Police Forces and Let the Citizens fend for themselves? (Chicago)? Please explain to me what the protest want to achieve? Civil Rights, Sex Revolution Gay Rights how did they achieve their goals? They took part in the Government around them. So when are the next anti police politicians running?
Rioting for the sake of looting and destroying property is just crime.
Don't get me wrong, a responsible and effective media can be a very effective protector against the abuses of government agents - but....what they do is about more than that, and some of it is not good.
We need to empower officials to make Principled decisions on the spot guided by concepts like rights rather than regulations. In this instance, a sergeant would have just suggested that the team stay in their vehicles as he calmly discussed with the individual or something.
Training is not all that helpful outside of principles and ones being allowed to employ bill if rights based principles on the spot without fear of reprimand.
Too often we discuss "the police" as if they were one entity and we compare police shooting that occur across various jurisdictions, states, departments, etc...You need to look at all those factors when considering incidents, shootings and the overall narrative. A particular department could be racist, have bias or a lack of training, but the reasoning behind why an officer did or didn't shoot will vary depending on a lot of factors that often aren't considered.
A better analysis would be to consider how that department typically reacts. For example, instead of comparing the Charlotte shooting to Tulsa or any other recent death, compare it to other police interactions in Charlotte, or compare Tulsa to Tulsa. The Dallas PD has been praised on multiple threads, does that mean if a police shooting happens in Dallas in the next few months, they should now be lumped in with what happened in Tulsa?
If each and every citizen has his bill of rights rights as an individual , than he does not need them as a group member. But as soon as we seek to promote one group over another, we have destroyed that.
Individual liberties does get us to where civil rights promises to get us, but fails.
Regulations,some of which were a backdoor attempt to trade agreed upon bill of rights rights in for a group rights concept not in the Constitution, have left us with neither.
Seriously this sounds like a hiring and training problem more than anything else. The race aspect may or may not be an added factor.
Some things are BRIGHT RED FLAGS - (i.e., involvement in domestic disturbances, instability, poor employment record especially w/previous law enforcement agency.)
1) So, if eating animals was an essential part of the journey from Lucy or her cousins to homo sapiens, where along that journey did we lose the right to include animal protein in our diet?
2) For those of you who think we did lose that right somewhere during the trip, would you prefer to still be eating walnuts and bugs?
3) Or are bugs off limits, too?
While on vacation this past summer in Florida I remember seeing a story about a kid down there. Good lookin, well built kid who worked out. Can't remember the age but the kid was at least in high school. So one day the kid's mom calls 911 and tells the dispatcher that her son is acting strange and she's concerned and he just left the house. The kid proceeds to walk down the street and sees a couple, husband and wife... mid-high 50's... sitting in their garage. The kid... high on PCP (or something like it)... proceeds to attack and kill the couple... and begins to eat the husband's face. Officer shows up to see this going on and tries to tase him. No effect. The kid gets in a knockdown-drag out fight in the garage with a few officers... dogs have little effect... and it takes multiple officers to finally subdue the kid.
Shannon Sharpe said the same thing.
It's easy to cherry pick scenarios and in this situation there are only two I can think of.
The man the black guy was eating was still alive when the solo cop shot him and the victim lived.
The couple the white guy was eating were already dead when a group of deputies encountered the man and they're still dead.
These are two important details. A police officer by himself has much greater chance of needing deadly force against a single offender compared to a group of police officers against a single offender.
The second is an officer can use deadly force to preserve his or another life from serious harm or death. Perhaps in both cases the officer didn't fear for his life or in the 2nd case took the personal decision to risk his life even if deadly force was reasonable.
Are you upset a black cannibal got shot and not a white one? Is this really an example you want to use to show cops are racist?
Personally, I wouldn't have minded if both got shot.