This has always been my opinion. I wrote off Cassels success as something else.
But it's getting tougher and tougher for me to defend this opinion.
Only counter I can offer... People still think MJ is better than LeBron despite a similar argument.
Certain guys are better "bases" of a team, certain guys are better "tips of the spear". Same argument I have for Brady and MJ over Peyton and LeBron at this point. I have nothing else.
No
All I'm saying is look at her Cleveland and Chicago did without them. Each Finals vs 1st pick.
Brady is obviously a great player, but the Pats are the Pats because of Belicheck. He's probably the greatest X/Os/schemes coach in the history of the game.
Never much of a debate is an exaggeration. I've never really wavered is more accurate
Yes, I do. I was thinking exactly that. It is amazing what BB gets done.
the Patriots had the documented easiest schedule in the history of the NFL with Cassel. and to be fair it was 5 games worse than the prior season with Brady.
Additionally, the year after Peyton sat out Luck took the 1 - 15 Colts team to the playoffs, and an 11 - 5 record.
but there are so many variables comparisons of this nature are flawed.
Brady and Peyton is close. I think you can make arguments either way, but the specious arguments made are not convincing.
Seriously? He took that team to the playoffs. And then started the next season 3-1 before Modell announced they were moving. And then everything imploded. Look at the coaching staff and front office in place then. If they never moved, they could have won a freaking Super Bowl. I mean, seriously.
For me it's Peyton and I wouldn't even think twice.
the Patriots had the documented easiest schedule in the history of the NFL with Cassel. and to be fair it was 5 games worse than the prior season with Brady.
Additionally, the year after Peyton sat out Luck took the 1 - 15 Colts team to the playoffs, and an 11 - 5 record.
but there are so many variables comparisons of this nature are flawed.
Brady and Peyton is close. I think you can make arguments either way, but the specious arguments made are not convincing.
Pats were 10-6 with Brady back the following year. It has always been bout Belicheck.
He was well on his way and then the franchise relocation to Baltimore became public and blew everything up.
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to compare what the Patriots did without Brady or what the Colts did without Peyton.
the Patriots had the documented easiest schedule in the history of the NFL with Cassel. and to be fair it was 5 games worse than the prior season with Brady.
Additionally, the year after Peyton sat out Luck took the 1 - 15 Colts team to the playoffs, and an 11 - 5 record.
but there are so many variables comparisons of this nature are flawed.
Brady and Peyton is close. I think you can make arguments either way, but the specious arguments made are not convincing.
Pats were 10-6 with Brady back the following year. It has always been bout Belicheck.
ridiculous. it's always been about both.
Doesn't mean Brady's not one of the best of all time, though.
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In comment 13136939 pjcas18 said:
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to compare what the Patriots did without Brady or what the Colts did without Peyton.
the Patriots had the documented easiest schedule in the history of the NFL with Cassel. and to be fair it was 5 games worse than the prior season with Brady.
Additionally, the year after Peyton sat out Luck took the 1 - 15 Colts team to the playoffs, and an 11 - 5 record.
but there are so many variables comparisons of this nature are flawed.
Brady and Peyton is close. I think you can make arguments either way, but the specious arguments made are not convincing.
Pats were 10-6 with Brady back the following year. It has always been bout Belicheck.
ridiculous. it's always been about both.
They are 14-5 without Brady. You point out that they lost 5 games after 18-1 season but fail to point out they went 10-6 the following year. Peyton had a way larger impact to his teams success than Brady ever did.
No he didn't
you're arguing a non-provable premise.
it's a stupid argument.
But he still went to the Super Bowl with two different franchises and FOUR different head coaches (Dungy, Caldwell, Fox, Kubiak). That's incredible.
For a while, I considered Brady to be just another in a line of unheralded players that Belichick figured out how to develop and maximize their talent. I always felt Belichick was the most important driving factor of the Patriots.
He kept adapting schemes and kept figuring out ways to put Brady in the best position to succeed. Eventually, Brady developed enough that he turned into a phenomenal, legendary quarterback. in his own right. And I want to make it clear that I think Brady plays the position at a phenomenal level.
But because of how much credit I give to Belichick (and how much I realize that football is a team game), I was never persuaded b the argument that Brady was better than Peyton because of rings.
Rather, I always thought Peyton was better because I felt more confidently that Peyton's success was more due to his ability than I could about Brady's success.
But man, 14-5 with Brady's backups is pretty incredible.
Along those lines, the Steelers have an admirable record with Big Ben's backups and so I always think of that when Ben and Eli get compared, knowing how better of a situation Ben was in with Pittsburgh than Eli in New York.
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MJ's jock
All I'm saying is look at her Cleveland and Chicago did without them. Each Finals vs 1st pick.
He didn't win in Cleveland before he left.
Brady had Moss for a few years. Peyton had Harrison and Wayne for a career.
To me the deciding factor is wins and losses, both in the regular and post season. Peyton's mark of 200-96 (.685) is pretty imcredible and is second all time among QBs who have played at least 100 games. But he's second to Brady, who at 196-60 (.764) is nearly a full tenth of a point ahead of him. But where Brady really separates himself is in the post season, where with all due respect he pretty much wipes the floor with Peyton, posting a career mark of 22-9 (.710). That truly is a ridiculous stat and really does blow the doors off Peyton's 14-13 record (.519). Peyton will be remembered as a surgeon, a veritable coach on the field who won two titles and rode off into the sunset a champion. But until the latter half of his career he struggled mightily in the postseason. Heck, he didn't even have a winning playoff record with the Colts (9-10) despite 11 playoff appearances in 13 seasons (not counting his final year in Indy, in which he sat out). It wasn't until hismfinalmrun with Denver, which we all know was spearheaded by the defense,manat his postseason record eclipsed the .500 mark. Peyton also went one-and-done in the postseason 9 times compared with Nrasy's two.
Like I said earlier, I'm a huge pain Manning. But if I have to pick a quarterback for one game only I'd have to go and Brady .
MAnning had Edge and Harrison. Brady had meh weapons until 2007.
you're arguing a non-provable premise.
it's a stupid argument.
On the same token of you watch the Rams and patriots Superbowl and come away that Brady contributed you should also lost cause credibility... Peyto's second Superbowl only shows that anyone can win the Superbowl, football is ultimate team sport and then you realize Peyton's teams have always been far worse than Bradys teams hence the difference in playoffs and Superbowl wins.
Somehow, some way I don't see the Broncos losing to the Seahawks 43-8 with Brady at WB.
One of the more unique differences between the two teams (Patriots vs. Colts/Broncos) is that the Patriots are Belichick's team whereas Peyton is the coach of any team he plays for.
People get all caught up in that hype, but when both of these teams get punched in the mouth, only one of them can respond.
That Patriot near comeback against the 49ers in 2012 down 31-3 to tie it up was impressive Brady. Don't think Peyton could do that.
Somehow, some way I don't see the Broncos losing to the Seahawks 43-8 with Brady at WB.
One of the more unique differences between the two teams (Patriots vs. Colts/Broncos) is that the Patriots are Belichick's team whereas Peyton is the coach of any team he plays for.
People get all caught up in that hype, but when both of these teams get punched in the mouth, only one of them can respond.
That Patriot near comeback against the 49ers in 2012 down 31-3 to tie it up was impressive Brady. Don't think Peyton could do that.
What about being down 21-3 right before the half against NE in the 2006 AFC Championship game.
I'd take TB over P. Manning. I think it also says something that Brady has spent his entire career playing in New England & the elements, while Peyton played a large chunk of his career in the comforts of a dome.
Both are all time greats though. You really can't go wrong with either one.
Yes