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Bill Belichick the GOAT

Boatie Warrant : 9/23/2016 6:35 am
I have been saying for awhile that I thought Bill was top 3-4 in the history of the NFL but this season has solidified his place as the greatest of all time for me.

Yes we are only 3 weeks in but you have to say by looking at this roster no other coach has them at 3-0. Look at his coaching tree (or lack thereof). Only true successes are front office people who seem to be using a base line philosophy that Bill taught them when they where just starting out.

Every coach that has left him has not don jack crap, so to me not only can he win with any player but on top of that he can win with any coaching staff. This in my eyes makes him the greatest NFL head coach of all times.

Thoughts? Arguments?

Now to fantasies about what would of happened if BB had succeeded Parcells (no one knows but sure is fun to speculate)
I thought he was the GOAT  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 9/23/2016 6:37 am : link
before this season starts.

Some will say 'Well he's had Brady', but it's pretty apparent he's the top dog there & the man has now gone 14-5 in 19 games with Matt Cassel, Jimmy G, & Brissett.
Mostly agree  
Steve L : 9/23/2016 6:42 am : link
Though no coaching tree is a negative to me (and I did no research and am trusting your comment). Part of being a boss is grooming and mentoring.

That aside, it's hard to argue with his success. People of course will bring up the cheating aspect, but even in that kind of adversity he always wins.

Unless it's Eli....in the Super Bowl :)
No argument here  
Joey from GlenCove : 9/23/2016 6:49 am : link
This game will be talked about in his hof induction.

This game is also a reminder...  
Big Blue Blogger : 9/23/2016 7:06 am : link
...of how difficult it is to win with a -3 turnover differential. (Memo to Giant fans unhappy about Sunday's "ugly" win".) Not taking anything away from Belichick or the Pats. Just pointing out that the Texans did their part.
Love the way bills mind seems to work  
idiotsavant : 9/23/2016 7:08 am : link
Lots of common sense also.

In 'is it belicheck or Brady ' I always said it's belicheck.
The cheating stuff  
Glover : 9/23/2016 7:25 am : link
Kinda socks, but I agree with him as the GOAT.
What do you think Jets fans wonder about what could have been if BB succeeded Parcells and not gone to their division rival? He was in the position and left. Ouch,
For many (not all) of us who saw  
Big Blue '56 : 9/23/2016 7:33 am : link
Lombardi as well as Belichick, LombardI is the GOAT, with BB most likely second..For those whose familiarity with Lombardi is effectively with the trophy that bears his name, then no, Belichick is the runaway GOAT..

I agree  
Joeguido : 9/23/2016 7:37 am : link
he has proved that it is his system and his schemes that win not anyone that's on the team. I'm not positive but their injuries were right up there with the giants last year and he just keeps winning.
RE: For many (not all) of us who saw  
EricJ : 9/23/2016 7:47 am : link
In comment 13137110 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
Lombardi as well as Belichick, LombardI is the GOAT, with BB most likely second..For those whose familiarity with Lombardi is effectively with the trophy that bears his name, then no, Belichick is the runaway GOAT..


Well, I would say this...
Lombardi was the motivator but Bill gets my vote as a game strategist.
The problem with GOAT is that it often changes every generation  
Marty in Albany : 9/23/2016 7:47 am : link
I have no problem agreeing that he is the GOOT--Greatest of OUR Time.

It is really hard to compare a man who is alive and on TV to a guy who died before you were born.
I hate the PATS. But he is the best ever in my mind.  
Blue21 : 9/23/2016 7:49 am : link
In 3 days he adjusted his offense to fit his QB. He doesn't make his QB fit to his offense he adjusts to his QB's strength.His offensive line is average at best. But he still makes it work
He has my vote  
UberAlias : 9/23/2016 8:01 am : link
I said this a few years ago, despite his defensive background, you could easily argue that he's the top offensive mind in the game. He reinvents him self (offensively) year to year. And when you break it down, game to game, and even series to series. But his teams execute amazingly well, and they are always playing to their strengths.
I posted this link  
PaulBlakeTSU : 9/23/2016 8:02 am : link
in the Brady/Peyton thread, and it has been posted here before, but for those who haven't read it and like X's and O's, this is a fantastic breakdown of the Patriots offensive philosophy. Interestingly enough, it was written by a Jets blog.
http://www.ganggreennation.com/2015/12/23/10644776/jets-patriots-tom-brady-bill-belichick-offense-nyj-new-england-new-york-week-16 - ( New Window )
and almost every Giants fan loved him and wanted him if Parcells left  
Giants2012 : 9/23/2016 8:02 am : link
Like many of his drafts, the game quickly got away from George Young and losing/not wanting Belichek as Head Coach was a historic mistake.

Nevermind Cleveland, they were on the rise until that move was announced.

GOAT, no doubt in my mind. Had he beat the Giants in those two Super Bowls, his status might rank as the Greatest coach in the history of sport let alone football.

I swear I was gonna put a crap load of money on the Pats last night  
I Love Clams Casino : 9/23/2016 8:05 am : link
but chickened out.....DAMN!
IMO, he's the greatest coach...  
M.S. : 9/23/2016 8:07 am : link
..in the history of the NFL.

All of the great coaches of the past operated in an era before free agency when dynastic building blocks could be kept together for 5-10 years.

Not today.

I'll put BB's record against anyone else's... any day of the week.

The guy the Giants failed to keep is the greatest coach in the history of the NFL.

But that's an old story for the Giants: Vince Lombardi and Tom Landry.

BB is just Giants' history repeating itself.
Greatest of his era in time for sure  
steve in ky : 9/23/2016 8:16 am : link
.
Give Josh McDaniels  
Tittle 9 20 64 : 9/23/2016 8:21 am : link
some credit. He's a hell of a OC. I know things didn't go well in Denver, but he deserves another head coaching gig.
He has created a culture that every team would love  
That’s Gold, Jerry : 9/23/2016 8:22 am : link
to have. I think he learned a lot from Tuna and then put his stamp on it. One thing Tuna always said is you have to find a way and that is what Belichick does better than anyone. He finds a way each week to beat the team they are playing.

They focus on what they need to focus on and they tune out the noise from the media and anyone else.

His use of players and the draft is a thing to behold and his emphasis on "do your job" is a mantra that each of his players follows. I think he also has a culture of no excuses...no matter what has transpired. They are always in contention for the Super Bowl...every year and in the free agency era that is remarkable.

Saying he is a great coach is an understatement. He is a man dealing with boys in that sense in the NFL.
RE: and almost every Giants fan loved him and wanted him if Parcells left  
Victor in CT : 9/23/2016 8:43 am : link
In comment 13137133 Giants2012 said:
Quote:
Like many of his drafts, the game quickly got away from George Young and losing/not wanting Belichek as Head Coach was a historic mistake.

Nevermind Cleveland, they were on the rise until that move was announced.

GOAT, no doubt in my mind. Had he beat the Giants in those two Super Bowls, his status might rank as the Greatest coach in the history of sport let alone football.


Exactly
to me this DOES reduce Brady's stature  
markky : 9/23/2016 8:45 am : link
the team and individual players are well coached. imagine playing QB if your players were always in the right spot and always did their job?
RE: Give Josh McDaniels  
djstat : 9/23/2016 8:54 am : link
In comment 13137150 Tittle 9 20 64 said:
Quote:
some credit. He's a hell of a OC. I know things didn't go well in Denver, but he deserves another head coaching gig.
He did things the right way. Realized he had a lot to still learn and went back to being an OC. Now he will only interview for jobs that put him in the right situation. Jacksonville might be a good fit for McDaniels
Brady could very well have been just another 6th round washout  
Victor in CT : 9/23/2016 8:57 am : link
that we never heard of had he been drafted by some bad franchise with bad coaching.

I don't think he's diminished unless they win the SB without him, and using the same offense.
RE: This game is also a reminder...  
shabu : 9/23/2016 9:02 am : link
In comment 13137088 Big Blue Blogger said:
Quote:
...of how difficult it is to win with a -3 turnover differential. (Memo to Giant fans unhappy about Sunday's "ugly" win".) Not taking anything away from Belichick or the Pats. Just pointing out that the Texans did their part.


Ya, lets hope for less ugly ( less turnovers and mistakes on offense ) this week.
RE: Brady could very well have been just another 6th round washout  
Big Blue '56 : 9/23/2016 9:06 am : link
In comment 13137204 Victor in CT said:
Quote:
that we never heard of had he been drafted by some bad franchise with bad coaching.

I don't think he's diminished unless they win the SB without him, and using the same offense.


And hope he doesn't have to face us..😜
hard to disagree  
area junc : 9/23/2016 9:07 am : link
this was on display last year too when they were down to offensive linemen off the street that nobody heard of. there are things the pats do that just make no sense - like putting scrubs on the OLine that get big push and open up huge running lanes.

somehow he coaches these guys to play quality NFL football when our starting OL can't budge anyone and has no rhythm

on D, he is the master of finding guys to do specific jobs and understanding who is going to play well together. its not easy to quantify who is going to give you chemistry and sometimes it's not the player everyone else likes, or knows
This is unbelievable coaching  
gidiefor : Mod : 9/23/2016 9:23 am : link
to start the season -- he has my vote for GOAT!!!!
btw -  
gidiefor : Mod : 9/23/2016 9:25 am : link
How great do the 2 Coughlin - Eli wins become in the Superbowl now -- they are the only combo to beat him in the Superbowl

Those two Superbowl wins continue to become greater as they age!!!!
RE: btw -  
map7711 : 9/23/2016 9:32 am : link
In comment 13137244 gidiefor said:
Quote:
How great do the 2 Coughlin - Eli wins become in the Superbowl now -- they are the only combo to beat him in the Superbowl

Those two Superbowl wins continue to become greater as they age!!!!


Was just going to write the same thing! That Eli beat this coach and QB not once but twice in the SB is freaking amazing. That alone should put Eli in the hall of fame if nothing else. It is a remarkable feat that he did twice.
Belichick  
NINEster : 9/23/2016 9:40 am : link
has a lot of natural talent, and had a decent start up to his career with the Giants.

Then he leveraged Bill Walsh's knowledge and experience as well as anyone in the Walsh tree did, maybe more.

Networks with college heavyweights....Nick Saban, Urban Meyer, Chip Kelly.

Would love to talk football with the guy.

My question is how much involvement does he have personally with offense and defensive game planning these days?

I'm guessing he comes up with ideas to tweak each week to McDaniels and Patricia, and they work it out and present it to him for approval (and then handle all the in game stuff).

Bill  
mdc1 : 9/23/2016 9:41 am : link
I think if we see him stick around long enough post Brady, our view of how good Brady was might just turn into what some believe in that its his system and excellence that really produce the results. He runs that team like a very competitive disciplined business. Plugs in a role and optimizes it for performance. Personally I think Brady would not be that name if he were elsewhere.
I'm not sure  
AP in Halfmoon : 9/23/2016 9:47 am : link
He lost 2 Super Bowls to Coughlin
RE: I swear I was gonna put a crap load of money on the Pats last night  
Tuckrule : 9/23/2016 9:53 am : link
In comment 13137135 I Love Clams Casino said:
Quote:
but chickened out.....DAMN!


You should have. Easy money. Forget brisset. That defense alone is good enough to stop most offenses
I've changed my mind on how good this guy is.  
chuckydee9 : 9/23/2016 9:54 am : link
In my early does of positing here are BBI I argued that while Bill was best right now, he wasn't much better than TC or other great coaches at the time... after the first 3 games this year, I've completely changed my mind.. not only did he win with backup quality player
QB.. He won without the greatest TE ever and who by the way it's the only legitly talented player on the offense.. and he beat 2 playoff caliber teams one of which is SB caliber team...

Now I believe In my years of watching football he is the best coach ever... Lombardi may the only one in his level...
RE: I've changed my mind on how good this guy is.  
NINEster : 9/23/2016 9:59 am : link
In comment 13137316 chuckydee9 said:
Quote:
In my early does of positing here are BBI I argued that while Bill was best right now, he wasn't much better than TC or other great coaches at the time... after the first 3 games this year, I've completely changed my mind.. not only did he win with backup quality player
QB.. He won without the greatest TE ever and who by the way it's the only legitly talented player on the offense.. and he beat 2 playoff caliber teams one of which is SB caliber team...

Now I believe In my years of watching football he is the best coach ever... Lombardi may the only one in his level...


Never understood the Lombardi hype.

Naturally a great coach, but the GOAT thing eludes me with him.

It just seems like those Packers' teams had the best players and he made sure they executed well. Leader of men as well, of course.

But innovative like Walsh or Belichick, I don't see it.

Of course that was before my time, so I could probably use a good education....
Does Ernie Adams go into the Hall with him?  
T in NJ : 9/23/2016 10:11 am : link
I josh, but he has down an incredible job to surround himself with a staff that puts him in the position to win.
he is the GOAT  
Les in TO : 9/23/2016 10:20 am : link
he takes care of every detail and ensures his team is prepared no matter what the circumstances. still can't believe we are 2-0 against him in the super bowl.
RE: RE: I've changed my mind on how good this guy is.  
chuckydee9 : 9/23/2016 10:24 am : link
In comment 13137325 NINEster said:
Quote:
In comment 13137316 chuckydee9 said:


Quote:


In my early does of positing here are BBI I argued that while Bill was best right now, he wasn't much better than TC or other great coaches at the time... after the first 3 games this year, I've completely changed my mind.. not only did he win with backup quality player
QB.. He won without the greatest TE ever and who by the way it's the only legitly talented player on the offense.. and he beat 2 playoff caliber teams one of which is SB caliber team...

Now I believe In my years of watching football he is the best coach ever... Lombardi may the only one in his level...



Never understood the Lombardi hype.

Naturally a great coach, but the GOAT thing eludes me with him.

It just seems like those Packers' teams had the best players and he made sure they executed well. Leader of men as well, of course.

But innovative like Walsh or Belichick, I don't see it.

Of course that was before my time, so I could probably use a good education....

I started watching football way after Lombardi but he won 5 championship in 7 years... and his team never won after he left...

I don't wanna judge coaches before my time but looking at BB it seems he would be better than anyone else ever.. it also seems like BB isn't a one time innovator... which I think is what Walsh was..
Josh McDaniels? Bahahahahahaha  
Greg from LI : 9/23/2016 10:29 am : link
Sure, little Joshie is going to be a great head coach this time around!!

Haven't some of you realized that Belichick's assistants are about as useful as refried pigshit without him? Not a single one of them has been anything near successful as a head coach, and meanwhile as they cycle in and out of Boston the Patriots machine just keeps rolling along.

It's all about Belichick. Always has been, always will be.
RE: Josh McDaniels? Bahahahahahaha  
Victor in CT : 9/23/2016 10:40 am : link
In comment 13137381 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
Sure, little Joshie is going to be a great head coach this time around!!

Haven't some of you realized that Belichick's assistants are about as useful as refried pigshit without him? Not a single one of them has been anything near successful as a head coach, and meanwhile as they cycle in and out of Boston the Patriots machine just keeps rolling along.

It's all about Belichick. Always has been, always will be.


Yep
also highlights the danger of chasing after QBs this way. Osweiler  
Victor in CT : 9/23/2016 10:44 am : link
had a nice run on a great team where he just had to manage the game, not fuck up and let the Defense win it. I understand a guy taking the $$ while he can, but 1) he was clearly better off in Denver and 2) Houston obviously learned nothing from Matt Cassel, Matt Flynn, Scott Mitchell, Elvis Grbac and countless others. Osweiler looked like a not very bright guy who was trying too hard to show he deserved that contract.
So true Greg. The only BB asst who was even remotely  
Victor in CT : 9/23/2016 10:46 am : link
competent as HC was Romeo Crennel. Didn't win, but he at least had CLE looking like a professional franchise (major accomplishment in my view), and did yeoman's work in KC.
He's a great coach...  
BillKo : 9/23/2016 11:37 am : link
but let's face it, the Texans were TOTAL dogs last night.

Running on third and eight early in the 1st quarter from almost midfield? Is that the way you win?

And the Pats cashed in on two turnovers on KO returns, turning them into TD's.

The Texans HC leaves a lot to be desired IMO. I hate when teams go at the Pats tentatively.

You have to attack them...much like the Giants usually do.

People joke about Ernie Adams,  
CT Charlie : 9/23/2016 11:39 am : link
but some think he may be as valuable as Brady.
RE: RE: I've changed my mind on how good this guy is.  
LAXin : 9/23/2016 11:44 am : link
In comment 13137325 NINEster said:
Quote:


Never understood the Lombardi hype.

Naturally a great coach, but the GOAT thing eludes me with him.

It just seems like those Packers' teams had the best players and he made sure they executed well. Leader of men as well, of course.

But innovative like Walsh or Belichick, I don't see it.

Of course that was before my time, so I could probably use a good education....


I agree completely. Football is a thinking men's sport -- Gibbs, Walsh, Paul Brown, etc, but I can't associate thinking with Lombardi too much -- what notable and new inventions/strategies/methodologies did he leave behind?
GOAT for sure...  
trueblueinpw : 9/23/2016 11:55 am : link
I really hope that BB keeps coaching for while after Brady retires. I wrote in the other thread, sure Brady's a great QB, but I think the evidence indicates that BB, not TB, makes the Pats great. What BB does with his fluid roster week in week out, season to season is a thing of beauty.

We're blessed to be Giants fans because BB helped us win two SBs when he was here and of course we are the only team to beat him twice in the SB.

Imagine how hard it must be to be a Jets fan? Greatest coach in the history of football is your HC/NYJ for a flash and then goes to coach your division rival. Man, sucks to be fireman Eds crew of green losers.
He's amazing.  
Dave in Hoboken : 9/23/2016 11:59 am : link
.
Saban is a member  
Phil in LA : 9/23/2016 12:06 pm : link
of Little Bill's coaching tree. Petrino is a member of TC's. Anyway, Little Bill should have done all this for the Giants, but George Young couldn't see it.
And the dopes favored the Texans  
ZogZerg : 9/23/2016 12:12 pm : link
Last night. People never learn.
He is?  
Emlen'sGremlins : 9/23/2016 12:38 pm : link
- Tom Coughlin
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