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NFT: Four dead in WA state mall shooting

Ned In Atlanta : 9/24/2016 2:49 am
Shooter still at large. Scary times we live in.
shooter looks "hispanic".....really?  
George from PA : 9/24/2016 6:42 am : link
The shooter is either connected to one of the women.


Or


Its another terrorist act!!!!!! Holy shit....

How many time do we need random acts of carnage to figure out that Islamic jihad....is here and attacking our way of life.

It might be a distraught boyfriend. ....it could be workplace violance.....or just gun violence. ......but after 20 or so of these..... terrorism is the top of my list.
RE: shooter looks  
Giantology : 9/24/2016 6:48 am : link
In comment 13138348 George from PA said:
Quote:
The shooter is either connected to one of the women.


Or


Its another terrorist act!!!!!! Holy shit....

How many time do we need random acts of carnage to figure out that Islamic jihad....is here and attacking our way of life.

It might be a distraught boyfriend. ....it could be workplace violance.....or just gun violence. ......but after 20 or so of these..... terrorism is the top of my list.


So, the authorities are the ones who have described him as hispanic. They must not want to play into your Muslim hatred?
BTW George  
Giantology : 9/24/2016 6:53 am : link
Since 9/11, white extremists have killed more Americans than Jihadists.
And whether or not that last figure is true or only half true  
Giantology : 9/24/2016 6:58 am : link
The only point I really want to make is not to jump to conclusions and immediately assume that this is a Jihadist attack.
George  
AP in Halfmoon : 9/24/2016 7:02 am : link
If this shooting was motivated by domestic violence, it will be old news after one day. If the shooter is a mentally ill person of middle east decent it will be news for a week dominating coverage. Why is that?
George  
Milton : 9/24/2016 7:08 am : link
Why is it necessary to post predictions on the shooter's ethnicity and/or his motives? Why not just wait for the facts to come out before "shooting" from the hip?
RE: George  
Bill L : 9/24/2016 7:10 am : link
In comment 13138354 AP in Halfmoon said:
Quote:
If this shooting was motivated by domestic violence, it will be old news after one day. If the shooter is a mentally ill person of middle east decent it will be news for a week dominating coverage. Why is that?
i think you're point is good, but it's weird that if you substitute "cop" for "Middle East decent" positions reverse, inflammation exponentially rises, and it becomes socially acceptable too jump to immediate conclusions.
RE: BTW George  
EricJ : 9/24/2016 7:38 am : link
In comment 13138350 Giantology said:
Quote:
Since 9/11, white extremists have killed more Americans than Jihadists.


...and if you drill down even further, most whites are killed by whites and most blacks are killed by blacks.

I would most likely remove the word "extremists" since that word is tossed around more than Tony Romo's salad.
Bill  
Modus Operandi : 9/24/2016 7:47 am : link
I don't think people on one side or another are more prone to jumping to conclusions. Its that wrt to both instances - acts of terrorism and excessive for by LE authorities - have become much too prevalent to not assume.

It isn't really jumping to a conclusion when an airliner mysteriously goes down over the ME. It also isn't jumping to a conclusion when an unarmed civilian is shot and killed and it's all captured on film. I'm not comparing the two as they've very different. I'm merely responding since you chose to make the parallel.

Wrt Barilko's continued narrative that the mass media colludes to craft an image of all Islam as all being terrorists, or that they invest too much of their time covering terror acts vs. other news, the explanation is fairly simple: the frequency of the events happening in the name of an ideology.

Earlier this year, there was a church burning that received a fair amount of coverage - perpetrated by a white supremacist. You think if churches/synagogues were being burned at a clip of one per month across every westernized nation, it wouldn't constantly be in the news?

We ask people not too jump all over the cops after a shooting  
bradshaw44 : 9/24/2016 7:50 am : link
And let information come out. Probably should afford all citizens the same benefit.
A grave threat to this nation?  
Maryland Giant : 9/24/2016 7:56 am : link
Americans with guns. Fekkers kill people every single day.
btw, it's now 5 dead  
markky : 9/24/2016 8:13 am : link
and of course mass shootings should dominate the news. this is newsworthy.
RE: A grave threat to this nation?  
Modus Operandi : 9/24/2016 8:40 am : link
In comment 13138380 Maryland Giant said:
Quote:
Americans with guns. Fekkers kill people every single day.


I can see him kill a thread every now and again, but Fekker killing people every day?
A lot of dumb on this thread  
ZogZerg : 9/24/2016 9:06 am : link
..
RE: Bill  
Bill L : 9/24/2016 9:45 am : link
In comment 13138372 Modus Operandi said:
Quote:
I don't think people on one side or another are more prone to jumping to conclusions. Its that wrt to both instances - acts of terrorism and excessive for by LE authorities - have become much too prevalent to not assume.

It isn't really jumping to a conclusion when an airliner mysteriously goes down over the ME. It also isn't jumping to a conclusion when an unarmed civilian is shot and killed and it's all captured on film. I'm not comparing the two as they've very different. I'm merely responding since you chose to make the parallel.

Wrt Barilko's continued narrative that the mass media colludes to craft an image of all Islam as all being terrorists, or that they invest too much of their time covering terror acts vs. other news, the explanation is fairly simple: the frequency of the events happening in the name of an ideology.

Earlier this year, there was a church burning that received a fair amount of coverage - perpetrated by a white supremacist. You think if churches/synagogues were being burned at a clip of one per month across every westernized nation, it wouldn't constantly be in the news?
you make good points. But, I would also add that if every day of the year an Islamic terrorist shot someone in a mall, or a cop shot a guy for reasons of ill intent, you'd have 365 Muslims and 365 cops out of a billion or a million. Which is not to say that each incident isn't tragic, that future events shouldn't be prevented, or that it isn't a concern needing to be addressed it within the respective group. It's that the news and people shouldn't say/think "Muslims" and "cops".

The other point is that there have been very very few of these incidents, whether it be random shootings or police-involved deaths where the story at completion isn't radically different from the story we first hear.
Confirmed photo.  
GiantFilthy : 9/24/2016 9:52 am : link
.
Photo - ( New Window )
George - we don't know who this guy is yet, but are lone wolf  
Watson : 9/24/2016 10:17 am : link
Terrorists any different than the White Guy Mass Shooter. There are some who think they are the same people.

Quote:
For years, FBI officials and other national security experts have said that apparent lone wolves such as Adan and Ahmad Khan Rahami, charged in last weekend’s New York bombing, have no discernible profile that could be used to head off terrorist acts. But some counterterrorism experts who studied attackers motivated by jihadist ideology say they often exhibit traits similar to those of non-Muslim mass killers who have attacked schools, churches and workplaces.

“They share common behavioral and psychological characteristics,” said John Cohen, a criminal justice professor at Rutgers University and the former counterterrorism coordinator at the U.S. Department of Homeland Security. “They’re the same people.”


From the article, quote from Adam Lankford, a criminologist at the University of Alabama.

Quote:
“Omar Mateen has more in common with Dylann Roof than he does with Osama bin Laden,”


Washington Post - ( New Window )
a ton to discuss  
George from PA : 9/24/2016 11:01 am : link
Muslims are not the problem. It's this extreme, radical group that want to go back to the time Mohammed which is a lifestyle that does not play well with others.

Now, I have issues with all man made religions in general as it has caused many deaths.

Mental illness is a major problem....

Domestic violence is also a major problem...

They certainly negativity affect society and needs to be resolved but it's not an attack on society.

Islamic terrorism goal is to destroy our lifestyle.
watson  
George from PA : 9/24/2016 11:26 am : link
We have had home grown loony groups that want to separate from the US, create a better society etc etc...they usually have some regard for their lives..besides the tax people usually stop them.


This Islamic extremist is a different animal. I have always associated it with Iran....since that hostage issue during Carter time. This hydra is a problem....the dirty "nuclear" bombs that scare me.....
You guys all discount the billions of dollars and extreme efforts by  
giant24 : 9/24/2016 11:53 am : link
our government, military, fbi, cia, tsa and law enforcement to stop radical Islam. Could you imagine the amount of terrorism there would be if we didnt take these measures all over the world.

So you can't just say oh its not that big a problem, more people have been killed by so and so or its just like a crazy mass murderer when you take into account the massive efforts we have to put out to stop it and there are still attacks all over the world on our soil.
George - certainly as a country we need to be vigilant regarding  
Watson : 9/24/2016 12:17 pm : link
international terrorist groups and to that end a lot of resources have been allocated. What we have seen here are these lone wolf type of attacks. Just happen to read the article I linked above, thought it perhaps relevant.

RE: BTW George  
Mike in Marin : 9/24/2016 12:40 pm : link
In comment 13138350 Giantology said:
Quote:
Since 9/11, white extremists have killed more Americans than Jihadists.


This is a ridiculous claim requiring extremely liberal use of the term "white extremists" and ignores the problem of ignoring a broadly-accepted religious ideology that preaches, inspires and validates jihadism and martyrdom as everlasting rewards for murdering outside groups.

Also, putting aside what has happened in the US alone, the 30,000 deadly attacks since 9/11 committed globally in the name of Islam and supported by the current teachings of the ideology, clearly indicate a much greater existential threat to western civilization than any of the tiny amount of white supremacists one might worry about.
RE: George - we don't know who this guy is yet, but are lone wolf  
Mike in Marin : 9/24/2016 12:48 pm : link
In comment 13138442 Watson said:
Quote:
Terrorists any different than the White Guy Mass Shooter. There are some who think they are the same people.



Quote:


For years, FBI officials and other national security experts have said that apparent lone wolves such as Adan and Ahmad Khan Rahami, charged in last weekend’s New York bombing, have no discernible profile that could be used to head off terrorist acts. But some counterterrorism experts who studied attackers motivated by jihadist ideology say they often exhibit traits similar to those of non-Muslim mass killers who have attacked schools, churches and workplaces.

“They share common behavioral and psychological characteristics,” said John Cohen, a criminal justice professor at Rutgers University and the former counterterrorism coordinator at the U.S. Department of Homeland Security. “They’re the same people.”



From the article, quote from Adam Lankford, a criminologist at the University of Alabama.



Quote:


“Omar Mateen has more in common with Dylann Roof than he does with Osama bin Laden,”

Washington Post - ( New Window )


Another ridiculous claim that starts with a fair amount of truth (to the extent that people desperate for meaning in their lives make good potential candidates for both types of murderers), yet completely ignores the factor of the ideology, beliefs, and religious doctrine that inspires and justifies the slaughter.

This is like claiming that the Inquisition had nothing to do with Catholicism, because Torquemada and his fellow torturers liked to hurt people. The authority and legitimacy all comes from the religious doctrine, texts and tolerated immoral dogma.
Watson .....I do not agree with that article.  
George from PA : 9/24/2016 1:51 pm : link
Sure. ....someone who is willing to kill themselves must have certain common personality disorder......

Even the term lone wolf.. I disagree with....

These terrorist, I feel they act more like sleeper cells.... they are undercover soldiers.

I really do not want to get into a political discussion....but giving Iran billions in unmarked bills and Mr. Heinz shocked that they not playing by "oxford" rules would be funny if it wasn't so serious.
Giantology, I just read your point  
George from PA : 9/24/2016 3:31 pm : link
Since 9/11, huh?

Where do you get your facts?

The US has been in 2 wars against jihadist.....so I suspect more Americans have died at their hands.....then any "white supremist" group.


And if you mean in US....Orlando and San Bernardino # of dead is pretty large......please explain?
RE: A grave threat to this nation?  
fivehead : 9/24/2016 3:33 pm : link
In comment 13138380 Maryland Giant said:
Quote:
Americans with guns. Fekkers kill people every single day.


I have guns and haven't killed anybody. Do I not get my fekker license?
I'm not a fan of jumping to conclusions  
BestFeature : 9/24/2016 6:11 pm : link
But I'm even less of a fan of people being called bigots for saying "Islamic Jihadism". We can be better than this.
RE: RE: George  
santacruzom : 9/24/2016 6:14 pm : link
In comment 13138357 Bill L said:
Quote:
In comment 13138354 AP in Halfmoon said:


Quote:


If this shooting was motivated by domestic violence, it will be old news after one day. If the shooter is a mentally ill person of middle east decent it will be news for a week dominating coverage. Why is that?

i think you're point is good, but it's weird that if you substitute "cop" for "Middle East decent" positions reverse, inflammation exponentially rises, and it becomes socially acceptable too jump to immediate conclusions.


And with good reason! It would be pretty scary if a cop shot and killed 4 people at a mall.
RE: George  
steve in ky : 9/24/2016 6:36 pm : link
In comment 13138354 AP in Halfmoon said:
Quote:
If this shooting was motivated by domestic violence, it will be old news after one day. If the shooter is a mentally ill person of middle east decent it will be news for a week dominating coverage. Why is that?


Is it really that hard to understand?

With domestic violence people feel they have some control over the possibility of happening to them based on their personal choices but with the other two they are competently random and out of their control.
RE: George  
BigBlueShock : 9/24/2016 7:15 pm : link
In comment 13138354 AP in Halfmoon said:
Quote:
If this shooting was motivated by domestic violence, it will be old news after one day. If the shooter is a mentally ill person of middle east decent it will be news for a week dominating coverage. Why is that?

What a stupid, ignorant, unbelievably asinine post. AP in Halfmoon just never stops trying to outdo himself. He'll do anything in his defense of this narrative of his that Islamic Jihadists get picked on too much by the media. Absolutely comical. And sickening. Not sure what his motivation is, but it's curious, to say the least.
RE: Watson .....I do not agree with that article.  
Watson : 9/24/2016 7:50 pm : link
In comment 13138613 George from PA said:
Quote:
Sure. ....someone who is willing to kill themselves must have certain common personality disorder......

Even the term lone wolf.. I disagree with....

These terrorist, I feel they act more like sleeper cells.... they are undercover soldiers.

I really do not want to get into a political discussion....but giving Iran billions in unmarked bills and Mr. Heinz shocked that they not playing by "oxford" rules would be funny if it wasn't so serious.


George, your most welcomed to disagree. The articles premise is supported by quotes from climatologists and others who have worked in counterterrorism. Some of these terrorists are religious, others not so much. But they all seem to have issues very similar to the White Guy mass shooters.

You characterise them as sleeper cell or undercover soldiers but is that what we have seen so far? I don't pretend to have any expertise, but imo that would require someone who is very disciplined and patient. Maybe that fits the San Bernardino couple somewhat, but hardly fits most of the others that had significant behavioural or mental health issues.

Anyway, we have no idea what motivated this latest guy in the Mall shooting. Hopefully they catch him soon.
****************  
sphinx : 9/24/2016 10:35 pm : link
The Associated Press @AP
BREAKING: Authorities: Suspect in deadly Washington state mall shooting in custody

[b]Unconfirmed[/b] identify is suspect is Arcan Cetin  
madgiantscow009 : 9/24/2016 10:45 pm : link
from Turkey there are facebook photos. He was walking down the street.
Btw  
Modus Operandi : 9/25/2016 3:25 am : link
AP in Halfmoon's querry above has been answered a thousand times. He's quickly become the radar of current events threads.
Well...what a shock....an immigrant from Turkey.  
George from PA : 9/25/2016 5:23 am : link
Not a Hispanic as originally mentioned by police.

Now, They have no idea what the motivation is, really? The inspector in the Sherlock Holmes books has more sense.

I have no idea why the polce/FBI seems to want to avoid the obvious narrative that the US is under attack by Islamic terrorists....it seems they wait until the obvious conclusion is made by the public and can not be denied.

Watson, likewise, believe what you want....but When someone in NY/NJ plant several bombs on same day that someone in Minnesota attacks with a knife....both with similar religious beliefs, from a similar culture from a certain geography...there is a connection....maybe not uniformed or coordinated but planned (thankfully, not extremely successful),

It has become so common place.....that when I first heard about this one......I assumed shooter was not Hispanic.

Between you and me....I much prefer the Hispanic boyfriend kills girlfriend/ co_workers/mental illness narrative.
RE: Well...what a shock....an immigrant from Turkey.  
Sgrcts : 9/25/2016 8:21 am : link
In comment 13139120 George from PA said:
Quote:
Not a Hispanic as originally mentioned by police.

Now, They have no idea what the motivation is, really? The inspector in the Sherlock Holmes books has more sense.

I have no idea why the polce/FBI seems to want to avoid the obvious narrative that the US is under attack by Islamic terrorists....it seems they wait until the obvious conclusion is made by the public and can not be denied.

Watson, likewise, believe what you want....but When someone in NY/NJ plant several bombs on same day that someone in Minnesota attacks with a knife....both with similar religious beliefs, from a similar culture from a certain geography...there is a connection....maybe not uniformed or coordinated but planned (thankfully, not extremely successful),

It has become so common place.....that when I first heard about this one......I assumed shooter was not Hispanic.

Between you and me....I much prefer the Hispanic boyfriend kills girlfriend/ co_workers/mental illness narrative.


Does it bother your narrative that there have been hundreds of mass shootings this year, the vast majority not by Muslims?
Mass shootings in 2016 - ( New Window )
RE: RE: Well...what a shock....an immigrant from Turkey.  
Ron from Ninerland : 9/25/2016 11:28 am : link
In comment 13139175 Sgrcts said:
Quote:



Does it bother your narrative that there have been hundreds of mass shootings this year, the vast majority not by Muslims? Mass shootings in 2016 - ( New Window )


Another idiotic post. How many of those "mass shootings" were just gang violence. No, it doesn't bother me when one gangbanger shoots another. What bothers me is that it is increasingly unsafe for ordinary Americans to go to public places and it bothers me when idiots put their head up their ass and pretend there isn't a problem.
Yes, no idea  
Mike in Marin : 9/25/2016 12:10 pm : link
what his motivation could possibly be.

As usual, many are searching desperately for ways to compare these types of jihad attacks to anything but the actual reason; the exclusive claims of revelations of God's will to carry out jihad and secure a place in heaven. All supported by doctrine, over and over.

And for those claiming that some of these guys are "not religious," it should be noted that even sinners can clean their records and make up for everything, and gain their holy spot with the prophet, for waging jihad later in their lives.

It was not that long ago that Liberals actually stood for (small "l") liberal human rights, including the right of free speech and the duty to criticize horrible ideologies that spread murder and mayhem throughout the world. Now, we fall all over ourselves to bequeath victimhood status, regardless of the suicidal results of our altruism.


Uhhh-ohhhh. His motivation was Islam (like 99.99% of the others). - ( New Window )
RE: RE: RE: Well...what a shock....an immigrant from Turkey.  
Sgrcts : 9/25/2016 12:43 pm : link
In comment 13139415 Ron from Ninerland said:
Quote:
In comment 13139175 Sgrcts said:


Quote:





Does it bother your narrative that there have been hundreds of mass shootings this year, the vast majority not by Muslims? Mass shootings in 2016 - ( New Window )



Another idiotic post. How many of those "mass shootings" were just gang violence. No, it doesn't bother me when one gangbanger shoots another. What bothers me is that it is increasingly unsafe for ordinary Americans to go to public places and it bothers me when idiots put their head up their ass and pretend there isn't a problem.


First off- many of these were not "gangbangers" shooting another.

Second off- it's pretty easy for you to find this out by actually clicking the link and doing some actual research before you talk out of your fucking ass.

Third off- "one gangbanger shoots another" is not a mass shooting. Maybe you should also find out what the word mass means. If it is gang related violence and it's considered a mass shooting, that means that multiple people were shot. Odds are that includes innocent bystanders. Do these people not not count because they weren't shot by a Muslim?

Finally- where do truly horrific situations like Sandy Hook or Dylan Roof fit into your equation?
RE: Yes, no idea  
Sgrcts : 9/25/2016 12:45 pm : link
In comment 13139470 Mike in Marin said:
Quote:
what his motivation could possibly be.

As usual, many are searching desperately for ways to compare these types of jihad attacks to anything but the actual reason; the exclusive claims of revelations of God's will to carry out jihad and secure a place in heaven. All supported by doctrine, over and over.

And for those claiming that some of these guys are "not religious," it should be noted that even sinners can clean their records and make up for everything, and gain their holy spot with the prophet, for waging jihad later in their lives.

It was not that long ago that Liberals actually stood for (small "l") liberal human rights, including the right of free speech and the duty to criticize horrible ideologies that spread murder and mayhem throughout the world. Now, we fall all over ourselves to bequeath victimhood status, regardless of the suicidal results of our altruism.
Uhhh-ohhhh. His motivation was Islam (like 99.99% of the others). - ( New Window )


Does it bother you that you have absolutely no fucking clue what you are talking about?
Seriously the information is right in front of you  
Sgrcts : 9/25/2016 12:50 pm : link
How do you expect people to take you seriously when you can find out actual facts and then say dumb things like 99.9% of mass shootings are because of Islam?
I don't know why you guys are even giving Mike in Marian  
montanagiant : 9/25/2016 12:57 pm : link
The time of day?

He never talks football, all he posts on are threads with where he can post his political. Never understood these members on Football board who never talk football, just spew their shit on NFT"s
RE: Seriously the information is right in front of you  
Mike in Marin : 9/25/2016 1:15 pm : link
In comment 13139535 Sgrcts said:
Quote:
How do you expect people to take you seriously when you can find out actual facts and then say dumb things like 99.9% of mass shootings are because of Islam?


99.99 % of mass shootings perpetrated by Muslims.
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