people were blaming Tye for giving up on the route. He did...no denying. However, my point was that he was covered even before Eli threw the ball. It never should have gone to him in that spot. The photo in Raanan's tweet shows you all you need to know. Even OBJ was more open than Tye.
It looked like Washington didn't drop any picks yesterday,
people were blaming Tye for giving up on the route. He did...no denying. However, my point was that he was covered even before Eli threw the ball. It never should have gone to him in that spot. The photo in Raanan's tweet shows you all you need to know. Even OBJ was more open than Tye.
Yes he was, but if he continued the route he would have been in a much better position to either catch or break it up.
I agree somewhat with one of those reply tweets. You have Shepard, Beckham, and Cruz, so why are we throwing to attempting passes to Tye and the tiny backup running back inside the endzone? :(
We said this immediately after the game.....Eli certainly did not survey the field.....he said he wanted to give Tye a "chance for the ball"....on first down, when two other receivers are open? I think Tye even gave up on the route, because he was covered....Just another bad decision by Eli yesterday....he had two first down int's....should have had 3 first down int's, but the defender dropped the ball....not a good day for Eli...but he was not the only one making bad decisions....this was a team loss, not an Eli loss....
Sometimes it works out and other times it doesn't.
There's two sides to this and I think they are both sound.
On the one hand, this wasn't a smart decision. Its 1st down. You need the points. Eli should have taken the safe yardage. Makes sense.
But on the other hand, Eli should be able to trust his starting TE to know whats at stake in that area of the field at that moment in the game. Tye should have run the route of his life and been more aggressive.
Can't really argue with either side. No matter what decision was made at the time, it should have worked.
Just another example of this team not having its head in the game yesterday.
the pocket was seriously falling apart especially on his right side. If you watch the video of that pick, washington sent a zero blitze and both lineman on the right side lost there matchup and ELI had to get rid of it.
There was no pressure up the middle so that is where eli could step up and make a throw. Looking back it was probably a better decision to go to OBJ and anticipate his break but OBJ wasn't open at the time ELI had to get rid of it. Also the pressure from the right probably hindered ELI's vision from completing a short pass to shepard or cruz.
He had a cleanish pocket in the middle of the field and saw his TE 1 on 1 with a small DB which Tye outweighs by a ton. Your TE simply has to win that route. No exceptions. Did ELI's make the best decision? No absolutely not, but considering the pressure on him on that play he made a good enough decision where our TE needs to win that matchup. 1 on 1 with a DB which TYE outweights by 60 LB's....you got to body him and either make that catch or finish the route so the DB doesn't pick it off.
We said this immediately after the game.....Eli certainly did not survey the field.....he said he wanted to give Tye a "chance for the ball"....on first down, when two other receivers are open? I think Tye even gave up on the route, because he was covered....Just another bad decision by Eli yesterday....he had two first down int's....should have had 3 first down int's, but the defender dropped the ball....not a good day for Eli...but he was not the only one making bad decisions....this was a team loss, not an Eli loss....
Eli really didn't have time to survey the field as the pocket was collapsing. If you want to argue that once Eli saw the "zero" blitz the redskins ran he should have thrown the post corner to OBJ and anticipated him winning his 1 on 1 match up over someone like Tye I would completely understand that argument.
But eli had no time to survey, the pocket was falling apart and if Eli waited one more second a sack/fumble was a strong possibility. You have to anticipate throws and anticipate your TE who is taller and outweighs the DB by 60 lbs to win that route.
RE: RE: This is what I was saying right after it happened...
people were blaming Tye for giving up on the route. He did...no denying. However, my point was that he was covered even before Eli threw the ball. It never should have gone to him in that spot. The photo in Raanan's tweet shows you all you need to know. Even OBJ was more open than Tye.
Yes he was, but if he continued the route he would have been in a much better position to either catch or break it up.
yes we know that Montana... but the point is not that Tye should have/could have. The fact is that the ball never should have been thrown there. The fact is that other WRs were open and Tye wasn't. So, a disaster happened and it is not all on Tye. Even if Tye continues his route that pass is going to be contested by the defender. Maybe not picked off, but he was NOT open and it would have been extremely difficult.
It also doesn't bode well for Monday night in Minnesota. TE and RB production will be paramount; Eli is going to need to get rid of the ball chop-like quick.
It also doesn't bode well for Monday night in Minnesota. TE and RB production will be paramount; Eli is going to need to get rid of the ball chop-like quick.
Doesn't have to be. I wish the Giants would watch a Patriots game. The Giants have similar personnel with three players all capable of running quick slants and picking up YAC.
The Patriots rarely throw low percentage downfield passes, and it was worse with the Brady and the ragtag OL last year.
Run some slants, it helps loosen up the D and it helps when you can't run.
Slants are a big part of what the Giants already do.
the QB's job is to do whatever it takes to win the game. That will change each week. There are plays that need to be made.
Eli is not making those plays on a consistent basis and this goes back years now. He'll put up huge yards and completion % - that's what a WCO does and that's what's going to happen when teams play deep zone every week.
But he is not doing what it takes to win the game. This past game, he started making dumb decisions in the 4th Qtr with the outcome in the balance. That's bad QB play.
given the offensive line does not give him all day, Eli often will throw the ball to one on one coverage, trying to find that matchup, and he has confidence in all his receivers(including running backs and tight ends). The fact that he can diagnose one on one coverage that quickly, I'll take my chances with that any day of the week.
He missed Beckum on one play...If he had all day to make that throw, I'd be more disappointed but that wasn't the case.
The Giants run the slant pattern more now than they did under TC by far.
There is no tape on the Redskins game yet , but they ran it plenty yesterday as well. And if you'll recall, Shepard took a big hit running one, but it also sprung Beckham wide open down the field and Eli didn't see it.
We said this immediately after the game.....Eli certainly did not survey the field.....he said he wanted to give Tye a "chance for the ball"....on first down, when two other receivers are open? I think Tye even gave up on the route, because he was covered....Just another bad decision by Eli yesterday....he had two first down int's....should have had 3 first down int's, but the defender dropped the ball....not a good day for Eli...but he was not the only one making bad decisions....this was a team loss, not an Eli loss....
Can you really survey the field under that pressure??? I think that's a bit unfair.
but whatever, like usual people don't read, so whatever, keep posting slant pictures.
You posted "the Giants should run some slants".
I'm merely informing you that it's a staple of the offense already.
It was implied to combat pressure, since that was the premise of the post I was responding to, not simply as a staple of the offense or more to the point instead of a checkdown to TE or RB. whatever, not a big deal, I don't have the energy or inclination to get caught up a minutiae battle or pissing match.
even though Tye was the "hot read", the interceptor was basically waiting back in the endzone for the route......he wasn't running with Tye.
I sit in section 126 and saw it perfectly...Eli threw it right at the defender, and I assume was expecting Tye to cut his route in a a bit whereas Tye looked to be running up the seam - Tye didn't and even looked like he stopped when he saw the ball to much inside.
have to continue to watch the lesser writers take on bigger roles that bring out the worst in fans?
How about we analyze this interception for a few more months and ignore the fact that ELi Manning made 1 bad mistake, 1 questionable mistake, 30449049394 great plays and his team should have won if not for the personal fouls and penalties he didn;t have anything to do with? We had a damn center get tossed for unsportsmanlike and yet here we are again
have to continue to watch the lesser writers take on bigger roles that bring out the worst in fans?
How about we analyze this interception for a few more months and ignore the fact that ELi Manning made 1 bad mistake, 1 questionable mistake, 30449049394 great plays and his team should have won if not for the personal fouls and penalties he didn;t have anything to do with? We had a damn center get tossed for unsportsmanlike and yet here we are again
Because despite the personal fouls and penalties if the Giants took care of the duke (to quote McAdoo) they still win the game in all likelihood.
Plus the penalties have been talked about ad nauseum.
it tends to speed up the decision process, he doesn't have time to go through his progressions and must let it fly rather quickly sometimes to bad results.
Said Tye's route was hot. The pressure was coming so Eli had to throw it hot or take the sack.
Eli put it up and gave his guy a chance, that player sucks so he failed utterly and gave up on the route.
In the NFL you have to throw guys open, Eli attempted to do this but the TE is a D player. Plus wasn't this pick a one handed grab? The other team is trying to win too.
Eli always trusts his guys, that is how he plays and I doubt it will change 10 seasons plus into his career.
Same on the Rainey play, there was intense pressure coming and Eli chucked it up to Rainey who he knew was one on one. Rainey is a D player so he got a TD ripped from him. Luckily the refs helped and it was not an INT
maybe we can also take a look at how bad this pass was
the pocket was seriously falling apart especially on his right side. If you watch the video of that pick, washington sent a zero blitze and both lineman on the right side lost there matchup and ELI had to get rid of it.
There was no pressure up the middle so that is where eli could step up and make a throw. Looking back it was probably a better decision to go to OBJ and anticipate his break but OBJ wasn't open at the time ELI had to get rid of it. Also the pressure from the right probably hindered ELI's vision from completing a short pass to shepard or cruz.
He had a cleanish pocket in the middle of the field and saw his TE 1 on 1 with a small DB which Tye outweighs by a ton. Your TE simply has to win that route. No exceptions. Did ELI's make the best decision? No absolutely not, but considering the pressure on him on that play he made a good enough decision where our TE needs to win that matchup. 1 on 1 with a DB which TYE outweights by 60 LB's....you got to body him and either make that catch or finish the route so the DB doesn't pick it off.
No I will not be air to Eli. First down, make a better pass or throw the ball away. Stop blaming everyone but Eli for Eli's interceptions.
RE: I can't knock Eli for at least the first int.,
given the offensive line does not give him all day, Eli often will throw the ball to one on one coverage, trying to find that matchup, and he has confidence in all his receivers(including running backs and tight ends). The fact that he can diagnose one on one coverage that quickly, I'll take my chances with that any day of the week.
He missed Beckum on one play...If he had all day to make that throw, I'd be more disappointed but that wasn't the case.
Are you kidding? It was a shit pass, cost us points. We score even a FG there and the Skins have to score a TD at the end of the game, rather than kick a short FG. He gets a chance to redeem himself and throws another shit pick.
Stop defending this guy. Not saying bench him, but put the blame on his shoulders for once.
given the offensive line does not give him all day, Eli often will throw the ball to one on one coverage, trying to find that matchup, and he has confidence in all his receivers(including running backs and tight ends). The fact that he can diagnose one on one coverage that quickly, I'll take my chances with that any day of the week.
He missed Beckum on one play...If he had all day to make that throw, I'd be more disappointed but that wasn't the case.
Are you kidding? It was a shit pass, cost us points. We score even a FG there and the Skins have to score a TD at the end of the game, rather than kick a short FG. He gets a chance to redeem himself and throws another shit pick.
Stop defending this guy. Not saying bench him, but put the blame on his shoulders for once.
That logic doesn't really work, simply adding three to the Giants final score.
If they kick a FG there, or score a TD, the events in the game will change considerably. You really don't know how the rest of the game will unfold.
RE: RE: RE: I can't knock Eli for at least the first int.,
given the offensive line does not give him all day, Eli often will throw the ball to one on one coverage, trying to find that matchup, and he has confidence in all his receivers(including running backs and tight ends). The fact that he can diagnose one on one coverage that quickly, I'll take my chances with that any day of the week.
He missed Beckum on one play...If he had all day to make that throw, I'd be more disappointed but that wasn't the case.
Are you kidding? It was a shit pass, cost us points. We score even a FG there and the Skins have to score a TD at the end of the game, rather than kick a short FG. He gets a chance to redeem himself and throws another shit pick.
Stop defending this guy. Not saying bench him, but put the blame on his shoulders for once.
That logic doesn't really work, simply adding three to the Giants final score.
If they kick a FG there, or score a TD, the events in the game will change considerably. You really don't know how the rest of the game will unfold.
Of course I get that, doesn't change the impact of a back breaking red zone pick.
Ranaan posted that, but Eli was about to get drilled. It's not like he had all day to make reads.
He saw Tye running down the seam, a play that they liked a lot last year. Tye is a tight end. When they have positioning on a defender, they are supposed to be able to maintain it. Eli saw that he Tye had his man beat in getting the inside lane on the seam route. So Eli threw it right down that seam. Tye didn't fight through the end of his route and let the defender dominate him.
There's two sides to this and I think they are both sound.
On the one hand, this wasn't a smart decision. Its 1st down. You need the points. Eli should have taken the safe yardage. Makes sense.
But on the other hand, Eli should be able to trust his starting TE to know whats at stake in that area of the field at that moment in the game. Tye should have run the route of his life and been more aggressive.
Can't really argue with either side. No matter what decision was made at the time, it should have worked.
Just another example of this team not having its head in the game yesterday.
There was no pressure up the middle so that is where eli could step up and make a throw. Looking back it was probably a better decision to go to OBJ and anticipate his break but OBJ wasn't open at the time ELI had to get rid of it. Also the pressure from the right probably hindered ELI's vision from completing a short pass to shepard or cruz.
He had a cleanish pocket in the middle of the field and saw his TE 1 on 1 with a small DB which Tye outweighs by a ton. Your TE simply has to win that route. No exceptions. Did ELI's make the best decision? No absolutely not, but considering the pressure on him on that play he made a good enough decision where our TE needs to win that matchup. 1 on 1 with a DB which TYE outweights by 60 LB's....you got to body him and either make that catch or finish the route so the DB doesn't pick it off.
Eli really didn't have time to survey the field as the pocket was collapsing. If you want to argue that once Eli saw the "zero" blitz the redskins ran he should have thrown the post corner to OBJ and anticipated him winning his 1 on 1 match up over someone like Tye I would completely understand that argument.
But eli had no time to survey, the pocket was falling apart and if Eli waited one more second a sack/fumble was a strong possibility. You have to anticipate throws and anticipate your TE who is taller and outweighs the DB by 60 lbs to win that route.
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people were blaming Tye for giving up on the route. He did...no denying. However, my point was that he was covered even before Eli threw the ball. It never should have gone to him in that spot. The photo in Raanan's tweet shows you all you need to know. Even OBJ was more open than Tye.
Yes he was, but if he continued the route he would have been in a much better position to either catch or break it up.
yes we know that Montana... but the point is not that Tye should have/could have. The fact is that the ball never should have been thrown there. The fact is that other WRs were open and Tye wasn't. So, a disaster happened and it is not all on Tye. Even if Tye continues his route that pass is going to be contested by the defender. Maybe not picked off, but he was NOT open and it would have been extremely difficult.
OBJ, Cruz, Shepard? Sure. Tye, Donnell? No.
Eli Manning completed 15 on 21 targets for 264 yds, 17.6 avg, 1 TD, 0 INT to OBJ, Shep & Cruz. Otherwise, 10-17 for 86 yds, 8.6 avg, 2 INT.
Pressure, lanes, and vision are all part of it.
Eli is aggressive and spotted Tye first, and went that way.
If he tried to hit those other guys he might not get the pass away.
It also doesn't bode well for Monday night in Minnesota. TE and RB production will be paramount; Eli is going to need to get rid of the ball chop-like quick.
It also doesn't bode well for Monday night in Minnesota. TE and RB production will be paramount; Eli is going to need to get rid of the ball chop-like quick.
Doesn't have to be. I wish the Giants would watch a Patriots game. The Giants have similar personnel with three players all capable of running quick slants and picking up YAC.
The Patriots rarely throw low percentage downfield passes, and it was worse with the Brady and the ragtag OL last year.
Run some slants, it helps loosen up the D and it helps when you can't run.
Eli is not making those plays on a consistent basis and this goes back years now. He'll put up huge yards and completion % - that's what a WCO does and that's what's going to happen when teams play deep zone every week.
But he is not doing what it takes to win the game. This past game, he started making dumb decisions in the 4th Qtr with the outcome in the balance. That's bad QB play.
but even if they did, Vereen is more than capable when probably used properly.
He missed Beckum on one play...If he had all day to make that throw, I'd be more disappointed but that wasn't the case.
The Giants run the slant pattern more now than they did under TC by far.
There is no tape on the Redskins game yet , but they ran it plenty yesterday as well. And if you'll recall, Shepard took a big hit running one, but it also sprung Beckham wide open down the field and Eli didn't see it.
but whatever, like usual people don't read, so whatever, keep posting slant pictures.
but whatever, like usual people don't read, so whatever, keep posting slant pictures.
You posted "the Giants should run some slants".
I'm merely informing you that it's a staple of the offense already.
Can you really survey the field under that pressure??? I think that's a bit unfair.
Quote:
not sure you read the post I was responding to.
but whatever, like usual people don't read, so whatever, keep posting slant pictures.
You posted "the Giants should run some slants".
I'm merely informing you that it's a staple of the offense already.
It was implied to combat pressure, since that was the premise of the post I was responding to, not simply as a staple of the offense or more to the point instead of a checkdown to TE or RB. whatever, not a big deal, I don't have the energy or inclination to get caught up a minutiae battle or pissing match.
Quote:
not sure you read the post I was responding to.
but whatever, like usual people don't read, so whatever, keep posting slant pictures.
You posted "the Giants should run some slants".
I'm merely informing you that it's a staple of the offense already.
LOL...and Craig Carton this morning was asking why the Giants and Jets don't run slants like "other teams"...........
I sit in section 126 and saw it perfectly...Eli threw it right at the defender, and I assume was expecting Tye to cut his route in a a bit whereas Tye looked to be running up the seam - Tye didn't and even looked like he stopped when he saw the ball to much inside.
BillKo : 9:52 am : link : reply
Can you really survey the field under that pressure??? I think that's a bit unfair.
Not when you stare down a receiver that is covered....throw the freakin' thing away on first down, then....
How about we analyze this interception for a few more months and ignore the fact that ELi Manning made 1 bad mistake, 1 questionable mistake, 30449049394 great plays and his team should have won if not for the personal fouls and penalties he didn;t have anything to do with? We had a damn center get tossed for unsportsmanlike and yet here we are again
How about we analyze this interception for a few more months and ignore the fact that ELi Manning made 1 bad mistake, 1 questionable mistake, 30449049394 great plays and his team should have won if not for the personal fouls and penalties he didn;t have anything to do with? We had a damn center get tossed for unsportsmanlike and yet here we are again
Because despite the personal fouls and penalties if the Giants took care of the duke (to quote McAdoo) they still win the game in all likelihood.
Plus the penalties have been talked about ad nauseum.
Eli put it up and gave his guy a chance, that player sucks so he failed utterly and gave up on the route.
In the NFL you have to throw guys open, Eli attempted to do this but the TE is a D player. Plus wasn't this pick a one handed grab? The other team is trying to win too.
Eli always trusts his guys, that is how he plays and I doubt it will change 10 seasons plus into his career.
Same on the Rainey play, there was intense pressure coming and Eli chucked it up to Rainey who he knew was one on one. Rainey is a D player so he got a TD ripped from him. Luckily the refs helped and it was not an INT
oops
oops
Except if he actually ran and finished his route, that throw is in the perfect spot. I don't know why this keeps getting ignored
Now watch the Giants beat the Vikes as dogs on Monday night when everyone picks against them.
There was no pressure up the middle so that is where eli could step up and make a throw. Looking back it was probably a better decision to go to OBJ and anticipate his break but OBJ wasn't open at the time ELI had to get rid of it. Also the pressure from the right probably hindered ELI's vision from completing a short pass to shepard or cruz.
He had a cleanish pocket in the middle of the field and saw his TE 1 on 1 with a small DB which Tye outweighs by a ton. Your TE simply has to win that route. No exceptions. Did ELI's make the best decision? No absolutely not, but considering the pressure on him on that play he made a good enough decision where our TE needs to win that matchup. 1 on 1 with a DB which TYE outweights by 60 LB's....you got to body him and either make that catch or finish the route so the DB doesn't pick it off.
No I will not be air to Eli. First down, make a better pass or throw the ball away. Stop blaming everyone but Eli for Eli's interceptions.
He missed Beckum on one play...If he had all day to make that throw, I'd be more disappointed but that wasn't the case.
Are you kidding? It was a shit pass, cost us points. We score even a FG there and the Skins have to score a TD at the end of the game, rather than kick a short FG. He gets a chance to redeem himself and throws another shit pick.
Stop defending this guy. Not saying bench him, but put the blame on his shoulders for once.
It appears to happen a lot.
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given the offensive line does not give him all day, Eli often will throw the ball to one on one coverage, trying to find that matchup, and he has confidence in all his receivers(including running backs and tight ends). The fact that he can diagnose one on one coverage that quickly, I'll take my chances with that any day of the week.
He missed Beckum on one play...If he had all day to make that throw, I'd be more disappointed but that wasn't the case.
Are you kidding? It was a shit pass, cost us points. We score even a FG there and the Skins have to score a TD at the end of the game, rather than kick a short FG. He gets a chance to redeem himself and throws another shit pick.
Stop defending this guy. Not saying bench him, but put the blame on his shoulders for once.
That logic doesn't really work, simply adding three to the Giants final score.
If they kick a FG there, or score a TD, the events in the game will change considerably. You really don't know how the rest of the game will unfold.
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In comment 13143088 barens said:
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given the offensive line does not give him all day, Eli often will throw the ball to one on one coverage, trying to find that matchup, and he has confidence in all his receivers(including running backs and tight ends). The fact that he can diagnose one on one coverage that quickly, I'll take my chances with that any day of the week.
He missed Beckum on one play...If he had all day to make that throw, I'd be more disappointed but that wasn't the case.
Are you kidding? It was a shit pass, cost us points. We score even a FG there and the Skins have to score a TD at the end of the game, rather than kick a short FG. He gets a chance to redeem himself and throws another shit pick.
Stop defending this guy. Not saying bench him, but put the blame on his shoulders for once.
That logic doesn't really work, simply adding three to the Giants final score.
If they kick a FG there, or score a TD, the events in the game will change considerably. You really don't know how the rest of the game will unfold.
Of course I get that, doesn't change the impact of a back breaking red zone pick.
He saw Tye running down the seam, a play that they liked a lot last year. Tye is a tight end. When they have positioning on a defender, they are supposed to be able to maintain it. Eli saw that he Tye had his man beat in getting the inside lane on the seam route. So Eli threw it right down that seam. Tye didn't fight through the end of his route and let the defender dominate him.