I think we as Giant fans want so much to pull for him , to applaud him , cheer for him and put our trust in him.
We realize he has all the makings of a great qb , possibly a legend if he reaches his full potential.
He's got 3 powerful wr's in Beckham , Cruz and Shepherd. All in there prime.
And I think it kills all of us Giant fans when he blows it. Not because we hate him , but because deep down inside we want to see him thrive , excel , dominate the NFL.. And win several more superbowl championships.
That's why people are so passionate on this board , cuz they love Eli and want him to reach his full potential....
This notion that because he's won two SBs, he should be exempt from critique is absurd.
This notion that because he's won two SBs, he should be exempt from critique is absurd.
No one ever said he cant be critiqued. Its when people say that he hasnt played well at all this year despite what his % says is kind of when these debates start.
Someone says something stupid, its disproven, then you start to name call. Rinse and repeat.
I love when people call me a super fan after acknowledging he didnt play well against Washington and the INT against Dallas was his fault. But whatever to drive their pointless rambling about how throwing it to wide open guys is a "bad decision".
My calling you a super fan is meant to be ironic.
The constant blathering about no one play decides a game - as if this was ever in question; only to have meltdown after meltdown on hame threads about individual plays and players.
Don't believe me? Ask Fatman. He's put your jackassery on display more than once. Except of course when it comes anything Eli does. Then it's hand in your pocket time while you come up with every excuse in the world why it wasn't Eli's fault.
The guy is your franchise QB. It begins and ends with him. He gets accolades when things go well and criticism when he sucks a nut. Period. Full stop.
I won't bring up the other since you'll simply deflect towards whichever other player was involved as you tend to do.
Quote:
eli has sucked this year according to MO. His play against NO was awful despite his % and numerous drops.
I love when people call me a super fan after acknowledging he didnt play well against Washington and the INT against Dallas was his fault. But whatever to drive their pointless rambling about how throwing it to wide open guys is a "bad decision".
My calling you a super fan is meant to be ironic.
The constant blathering about no one play decides a game - as if this was ever in question; only to have meltdown after meltdown on hame threads about individual plays and players.
Don't believe me? Ask Fatman. He's put your jackassery on display more than once. Except of course when it comes anything Eli does. Then it's hand in your pocket time while you come up with every excuse in the world why it wasn't Eli's fault.
The guy is your franchise QB. It begins and ends with him. He gets accolades when things go well and criticism when he sucks a nut. Period. Full stop.
No actually people have said many times an INt has lost or cost us the game. Its actually easily proven.
And again, what plays this year have I excused Eli from? I mean have I said anything as stupid as Eli hasnt played well this year even with his completion percentage? What a gem that was. I would LOVE for you to explain how Eli played poorly against the Saints..... give us your oh so great knowledge of the game there. Ill be sure to mock and make fun of you when you do. Because making you look stupid is INCREDIBLY easy.
I won't bring up the other since you'll simply deflect towards whichever other player was involved as you tend to do.
Go ahead. Explain the Cowboys and Saints game. We both agree he wasnt good agaisnt Washington.... but since you said all year - explain these 2. I need a good laugh.
Jimmy Garapolo currently leads the NFL in completion percentage. Want him as your starter? Or Sam Bradford (5th)? Andrew Luck is 21st.
Kirk Cousins led all passers last season...maybe you'd prefer him?
Feel dumb yet?
Jimmy Garapolo currently leads the NFL in completion percentage. Want him as your starter? Or Sam Bradford (5th)? Andrew Luck is 21st.
Kirk Cousins led all passers last season...maybe you'd prefer him?
Feel dumb yet?
Actually I dont remember ever citing % as a reason he has played well, only that his passes are accurate. He actually had a good completion percentage last game and for the 100th time (the number after 99 in case you didnt know), he didnt play well. So again, how can I feel dumb when I asked you to explain how he played poorly in the first two games. I am still waiting. Me thinks you have no idea why and are just looking like the idiot, as usual.
it is the frequency of interceptions that matters and Eli is significantly higher (202) than his 2004 class Big Ben (151) and Rivers (135) in picks.
As interceptions/turnovers are a key determinant of whether a team wins, it is not surprising that Big Ben (.669) and Rivers (.571) have higher regular season winning percentages than Eli (.532).
fair or not, when you are the #1 overall QB in a draft with 2 other QBs taken high, and an older brother who was also a former #1 overall pick, you are going to be compared against them and not against the cutlers, tannehills and cousins of the world.
Good post here
Quote:
In comment 13146665 dep026 said:
Quote:
eli has sucked this year according to MO. His play against NO was awful despite his % and numerous drops.
Dep doing his best Trump impression. We can all quote him on this very thread, but he didn't say it.
Quote:
In comment 13146665 dep026 said:
Quote:
And again, what plays this year have I excused Eli from? I mean have I said anything as stupid as Eli hasnt played well this year even with his completion percentage? What a gem that was.
LoL
Again, waiting on your response for saints and cowboys game.
I was thinking about this when I was looking at the fumbles. Luck seems to have leveled off. Rivers is almost an afterthought. Brees plays consistently well but isn't winning games.
Lots and lots of good young talent but will they continue growing?
Its important to remember the complicated style of offense that Eli was running for most of his career. Its no coincidence that after Gilbride was gone, his INT's dropped significantly.
No offense to Gilbride as his system brought two Lombardi's - but it had many feast or famine aspects to it. Every QB throws bad interceptions sometimes, but I attribute Eli's penchant for throwing them throughout his career to Gilbrides system coupled with Eli's gambler mentality.
In his first year under BM, he threw 14 INTS. Okay. Not great. Rodgers only threw 14 once in his career (I believe). If we are usin 14 as a benchmark, then Eli has threw 14 or more 9 times in his career.
Modus Operandi : 9/27/2016 4:30 pm : link : reply
He's really played poorly to start the season and it's been masked by his high completion perc.
So again, please explain how poorly he played in the first two games. We are all waiting...
I just proved you did.
Still waiting for you to answer.
Quote:
I noticed you dont include sacks in your negative plays. So does Eli get credit for being sacked 30 some less times than Rivers and over 130 less than Big ben despite playing more games than them?
Quote:
In comment 13146559 Les in TO said:
Quote:
I noticed you dont include sacks in your negative plays. So does Eli get credit for being sacked 30 some less times than Rivers and over 130 less than Big ben despite playing more games than them?
taking a sack is far less damaging than an interception or a fumble. you lose yards, but you still maintain possession of the ball and live to see another down. turnovers are killer, that is why turnover differential is a very strong correlator to wins.
Dont sacks on 3rd down end drives? Cant sacks take you out of field goal range? Do you know the percentage of drives stalled when a sack is involved? Because I am pretty sure most series a QB is sacked winds up with that team punting.
Quote:
In comment 13146559 Les in TO said:
Quote:
I noticed you dont include sacks in your negative plays. So does Eli get credit for being sacked 30 some less times than Rivers and over 130 less than Big ben despite playing more games than them?
taking a sack is far less damaging than an interception or a fumble. you lose yards, but you still maintain possession of the ball and live to see another down. turnovers are killer, that is why turnover differential is a very strong correlator to wins.
And shouldnt we put each turnover, fumble, and sack into context? Is an INT down 20 some points a big factor in a loss? Ive seen Eli throw a ton of them when the game is essentially over.
The one thing he does more than I would like is cough the ball up when touched. I don't really think he can be blamed with that even because it is probably just a lack of that type of athleticism and not something he is doing "wrong".
He is a great football player and a terrific QB just not the most athletic for hanging onto the ball when he is hit when not quite ready for it and therefor is a little prone to coughing it up in those moments. I don't see that correctable though. It is what he is.
I get into it with dep very infrequently even though we sometimes disagree. Sort of like Go Terps on certain subjects
Both guys are able to make their points and at least give reasoning to back them up. I can respect that.
I think dep goes way overboard on the Eli stuff, especially when it comes to throwing other guys like Beckham under the bus to make Eli look better, but he's not a run-of-the-mill moron that it here to say "Eli roolz" and then walk away from the thread.
I appreciate anyone who backs up their argument. And I even saw dep say that Eli didn't play well against the Skins, so people seem to already have a narrative about him in mind.
True jackassery is left best to someone who exists only to be a contrarian, or the legion of trolls who post only to rip reese, or just the epic morons like the Rich Houston/Elite Mobster types.
The main thing about eli is this. He threw a terrible INT to end the game and didnt have a good game overall. Peopl and fans care much more than Eli does about it. He admitted his mistake, he will move on. Some posters just cant. Its really weird at this point.
Quote:
In comment 13146587 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 13146559 Les in TO said:
Quote:
I noticed you dont include sacks in your negative plays. So does Eli get credit for being sacked 30 some less times than Rivers and over 130 less than Big ben despite playing more games than them?
taking a sack is far less damaging than an interception or a fumble. you lose yards, but you still maintain possession of the ball and live to see another down. turnovers are killer, that is why turnover differential is a very strong correlator to wins.
Dont sacks on 3rd down end drives? Cant sacks take you out of field goal range? Do you know the percentage of drives stalled when a sack is involved? Because I am pretty sure most series a QB is sacked winds up with that team punting.
It's just a game.
Dallas - OBJ drop
New Orleans - Donnell & OBJ drops
Washington - Rainey drop
Further, could argue both Cruz and Shepard were running free deep into secondaries after catches that could have easily been touchdowns but one fumbled and the other tripped.
But continue with the "here is the deal with Eli" crap...
And they also do what I say as well. Sacks are negative plays. Negative plays end drives. So do penalties.
And your point of sacks not determining victory? Really. Lets do the last 5 years and combined records. Top 5 most sacked teams and combined records.
2015 - Titans, Browns, 49ers, Jags, Packers (26-54)
2014 - Jags, Skins, 49ers, Bucs, Vikings (24-56)
2013 - Dolphins, Jags, Browns, Bills, Ravens (30-50)
2012 - Cards, packers, Jags, Chargers, eagles (29-51)
2011 - Rams, Cardinals, Dolphins, Seahawks, Vikings (26-54)
Only 2 playoff teams. A win percentage is pathetic. Me thinks that being sacked has a DIRECT correlation in wins and losses.
if you have a choice between a sack and an interception, you take the sack always (unless it's 4th down and you have better field position with a long throw for an interception).
I am sure it's impossible to show the percentage times scored on a drive where you are sacked. But judt look at what I just showed. The more your sacked... the more losses it leads too.
I am sure it's impossible to show the percentage times scored on a drive where you are sacked. But judt look at what I just showed. The more your sacked... the more losses it leads too.
Sure, that's a reflection of either a very porous OL, or a QB that doesn't have their internal clock running as quick as it should. That reflects poorly on either the OL or QB. Recipe for disaster. Lucky for us, Eli had one shaky game, and our OL isn't nearly as bad as it was made out to be. Eli will occasionally have one of those head scratching games, but I feel like he's done a better job of protecting the ball for the most part since we switched our offense.
A lot of bad team will fall behind early and when they need to pass to catch will inevitably throw more picks. so there may be a correlation between ints and losing. However, correlation does not equal causation.
Aaron Rodgers was sacked 46 times (2nd most) and threw 8 picks. So having been sacked nearly twice as many times, Rodgers threw half as many interceptions. Alex Smith was sacked 45 times (3rd most) and threw 7 picks. Even Ryan "I don't know how I got here" Tannehill got sacked more - 45 times - while throwing 12 picks.
So I'm not sure sacks necessarily equate to more turnovers by the QB. I think it comes down decision making and putting a premium on protecting the ball and taking smart risks. Like not throwing underhand with your off hand, for instance. Sometimes it's smarter to just take a sack rather than heaving it up as Eli does. Not because he sucks, but more because he tries to do too much.
Whatsmore, I'm not sure I agree that the fumbling is caused by lack of athleticism. Avoiding sacks? Sure. Athleticism. Fumbling is a matter of not securing the ball while moving within the pocket and, again, not trying to do too much.
Quote:
Don't believe me? Ask Fatman. He's put your jackassery on display more than once
I get into it with dep very infrequently even though we sometimes disagree. Sort of like Go Terps on certain subjects
Both guys are able to make their points and at least give reasoning to back them up. I can respect that.
I think dep goes way overboard on the Eli stuff, especially when it comes to throwing other guys like Beckham under the bus to make Eli look better, but he's not a run-of-the-mill moron that it here to say "Eli roolz" and then walk away from the thread.
I appreciate anyone who backs up their argument. And I even saw dep say that Eli didn't play well against the Skins, so people seem to already have a narrative about him in mind.
True jackassery is left best to someone who exists only to be a contrarian, or the legion of trolls who post only to rip reese, or just the epic morons like the Rich Houston/Elite Mobster types.
I didn't mean to say that you had an axe to grind with dep. But bac just when you used to post your day after game threads, and for anyone who actually reads those trainwrecks, dep's selective blame meltdowns are on display.
Aaron Rodgers was sacked 46 times (2nd most) and threw 8 picks. So having been sacked nearly twice as many times, Rodgers threw half as many interceptions. Alex Smith was sacked 45 times (3rd most) and threw 7 picks. Even Ryan "I don't know how I got here" Tannehill got sacked more - 45 times - while throwing 12 picks.
So I'm not sure sacks necessarily equate to more turnovers by the QB. I think it comes down decision making and putting a premium on protecting the ball and taking smart risks. Like not throwing underhand with your off hand, for instance. Sometimes it's smarter to just take a sack rather than heaving it up as Eli does. Not because he sucks, but more because he tries to do too much.
Whatsmore, I'm not sure I agree that the fumbling is caused by lack of athleticism. Avoiding sacks? Sure. Athleticism. Fumbling is a matter of not securing the ball while moving within the pocket and, again, not trying to do too much.
Well good thing no one equated sacks leading to turnovers. I was saying that sacks were negative plays that hurt a teams ability to win games. And as I showed before. The more a team gets sacked, the less likely they have too winning games.
Aaron Rodgers was sacked 46 times (2nd most) and threw 8 picks. So having been sacked nearly twice as many times, Rodgers threw half as many interceptions. Alex Smith was sacked 45 times (3rd most) and threw 7 picks. Even Ryan "I don't know how I got here" Tannehill got sacked more - 45 times - while throwing 12 picks.
So I'm not sure sacks necessarily equate to more turnovers by the QB. I think it comes down decision making and putting a premium on protecting the ball and taking smart risks. Like not throwing underhand with your off hand, for instance. Sometimes it's smarter to just take a sack rather than heaving it up as Eli does. Not because he sucks, but more because he tries to do too much.
Whatsmore, I'm not sure I agree that the fumbling is caused by lack of athleticism. Avoiding sacks? Sure. Athleticism. Fumbling is a matter of not securing the ball while moving within the pocket and, again, not trying to do too much.
This just backs up what we already know...Eli will take a chance and try and fit it into a tight window if he feels he has to and others would rather take the sack. I also think some of the QB's you mentioned get sacked more because they won't give up on a play or throw it unless it is a high percentage throw.
My entire point here is Eli's decision making. I never said he sucked. Thrilled to have watched him play. But the guy take too many risks and makes too many mistakes.
It's astonishing how poorly you read considering what you do.
Hows that breakdown of the cowboys and saints games where Eli played poorly going. Been waiting for a few hours.....
So again, you are not making a single point.
Have a good one.
Have a good one.
Show one posts where I equated sacks to turnovers. I didnt. I equated sacks to negative plays which I have proven.
Waiting on those game reports. You make outlandish statements. I ask you to back it up, you cant. Cant wait for you to tell us he should be more like Alex Smith next week.