I think we as Giant fans want so much to pull for him , to applaud him , cheer for him and put our trust in him.
We realize he has all the makings of a great qb , possibly a legend if he reaches his full potential.
He's got 3 powerful wr's in Beckham , Cruz and Shepherd. All in there prime.
And I think it kills all of us Giant fans when he blows it. Not because we hate him , but because deep down inside we want to see him thrive , excel , dominate the NFL.. And win several more superbowl championships.
That's why people are so passionate on this board , cuz they love Eli and want him to reach his full potential....
Cool story bro.
Really? So you punish Eric because of what other people write?
Do you want him to personally approve every thread before it's published in order to satisfy those who would withhold donations if they view threads as unworthy?
Or maybe you're just really cheap...
Victor Cruz is in his prime? He's coming back from two years away from the field.
In my 30 plus years of being a Giants fan I can't think of a time where the Giants QB has been under more constant scrutiny then now. It just gets tired.
In my 30 plus years of being a Giants fan I can't think of a time where the Giants QB has been under more constant scrutiny then now. It just gets tired.
Eli's the first Giants QB who can sing. That puts him in the spotlight
Cardinals
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Boards?????
"I'm encouraging him to reach his full potential."
Not in the fact of putting up 4,000 yard 30 td seasons , but in the realization of winning more "championships".
2 superbowl championships in my opinion is not his full potential. I think Eli would agree , he has the ability to win more of them! That's my point.
Now will he? that is a question only he and the team can answer.
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Really? So you punish Eric because of what other people write?
Do you want him to personally approve every thread before it's published in order to satisfy those who would withhold donations if they view threads as unworthy?
Or maybe you're just really cheap...
I've donated for years.
"I'm encouraging him to reach his full potential."
Not in the fact of putting up 4,000 yard 30 td seasons , but in the realization of winning more "championships".
2 superbowl championships in my opinion is not his full potential. I think Eli would agree , he has the ability to win more of them! That's my point.
Now will he? that is a question only he and the team can answer.
I think he has a great shot to win another. It just won't happen in week fucking 3.
You didn't answer the question.
Do you hold Eric responsible for what other people post and do you think he should approve threads before they are published?
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I've donated for years.
You didn't answer the question.
Do you hold Eric responsible for what other people post and do you think he should approve threads before they are published?
I think he should charge a subscription fee and wait period to post...so, yes.
I can get stupid anywhere. Is pay for intelligent, well thought out discussion.
BC...agreed. It's fucking exhausting. Eli is going to go down as the greatest Giant of all time. Every fucking throw is dissected.
I honestly believe that 90+ % of the fanbase couldn't find their ass with a roadmap.
He's great but he has his weaknesses which is why he is constantly debated in terms of where he stands.
+1
He's great but he has his weaknesses which is why he is constantly debated in terms of where he stands.
The comparison to Ben is a lot closer than people want to be believe as proved earlier this year.
Comparing him to Rivers is an absolute joke. This board is unbearable.
People bitch about his %, and its at 72% so we have to find another reason to rag on him. Late game turnovers. Do we forget how many times he has GW drives and go ahead drives (did we forget how many games were blown by the defense?)
Eli has no problems. When you play as many close games as the Giants always do.... he is going to make plays, and there will be the occasional throw like we saw thsi weekend. Ben does it a lot. Rivers does it a lot (didnt his team blow a 25 point lead already this year late in the 3rd??) Rodgers throws game ending INTs. Peyton did too. EVERY QB in that situation has the occasional what the fuck are you doing. Its only magnified because the Giants havent been good and havent had a defense to bail him out over the last 3 years.
I laughed my ass off that someone really posted that he doesnt have the 4th quarter magic anymore..... bare in mind, he has TWO GW 4th quarter drives.... this year!
The over analysis is crazy.
uh oh! you just unleashed the BBI Kraken ! Your comment here on BBI is worse than a muslim woman walking down the street in Iran in a bikini
And so is my penis
His career is somewhat similar to a player you may not expect: Drew Brees (as opposed to, say, Rodgers, Ben, Peyton, Brady who have been better served by their teams and who infrequently miss the post-season).
While obviously the superior player, Brees has also been on a team with largely middling, at times poor talent and also has 5 playoff appearances. He, like Eli, is a lock every year to put up big numbers (bigger, obviously in Brees' case). But he is on a team with a disastrous defense almost every year, so there's only so much he can do and it's unsurprising the Saints miss the playoffs a lot.
Gonna say it again: if this Giants team gets manhandled (again) by the Eagles on Nov 6, I think it's a really bad sign for them. They have enough talent presently where they should be competing with a team that has owned them but who now has a rookie QB. And enough talent, barring a cascade of injuries, to finally return to the post-season.
As to why Giants fans are passionate. For me it s simple and has nothing to do with Eli. Following a team is fun. It a more fun when they win.
This week waiting for the Mon Night game, the Thurs Game were not as much fun. It s simple.
Everyone bitching and complaining that Eli takes chance and the occassional back breaking INTs cant happen...
Well I guess you rather be more safe and have 2 less SBs. I bet you fatties want your cake and eat it too!
Eli IMO has always had the ability to throw the ball accurately downfield and take advantage of bad matchups in those situations.
I feel like in the past couple of seasons he's been forced to throw screens and quick slants...which made sense when 2 years ago our line was putrid. Sooner or later you have to have some faith and let the guy sling it.
Eli IMO has always had the ability to throw the ball accurately downfield and take advantage of bad matchups in those situations.
I feel like in the past couple of seasons he's been forced to throw screens and quick slants...which made sense when 2 years ago our line was putrid. Sooner or later you have to have some faith and let the guy sling it.
You have to understand that when teams play 2 deep safeties and the LBs are getting as much depth as possible, you cant throw deep like we have had in the past.
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No matter how these last few years of his career go, I will always love him thanks to the 2 SB's. But with that being said, I'm sorry, but he shouldn't be making some of these absolute back-breaking INTs/TO's this late into his career this consistently. It absolutely kills this team at times. No way around it.
uh oh! you just unleashed the BBI Kraken ! Your comment here on BBI is worse than a muslim woman walking down the street in Iran in a bikini
Hehe. I'm willing to live with that. I love him. But it's the truth. Obviously, QBs are going to make mistakes and throw INTs. But come on, how long has this been going on now?
Buddy I was at the game. If I had to take a guess at the estimate of 2 deep safeties played....Id put it over 90%. They bracketed OBj basically the entire game. And the middle was open all game. Look at all the catches tye, vereen, donnell, shephard, and occasion beckham got over the middle. Being in the upper level gave me a perfect view that people dont see in a game. Hall and Bruton were deep safeties all game.
He's such an iconic New Orleans player, sometimes I forget he played elsewhere.
The expectations are insane.
Thats funny.... I never knew Eli went 1 on 1 with Rivers. Did they play horse or out? Was it make it-take it?
Rivers has had less talent in his career than Eli. Interesting....
Ok he has 2 4th quarter wins this year. So 2 for 3. What percentage are we looking for? 75-80%? 100%?
If this team can get its head out of its ass with the errors, I think Eli has a chance to be the 2016 NFL MVP.
Imagine if he had a legit tight end.
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Just don't throw a back-breaking INT so consistently. *shrug*
Ok he has 2 4th quarter wins this year. So 2 for 3. What percentage are we looking for? 75-80%? 100%?
It's not like he's 9th all time for 4th quarter comebacks either.
Imagine how many he'd have without all those "backbreaking" INTs.
Eli takes a lot of chances, he makes some bad reads sometimes.. it happens. The worst throw he made all day on Sunday was probably the one that actually didn't get picked off.
It sucks when he turns the ball over in a big spot but this idea that it happens consistently is a bit of a reach.
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Just don't throw a back-breaking INT so consistently. *shrug*
Ok he has 2 4th quarter wins this year. So 2 for 3. What percentage are we looking for? 75-80%? 100%?
I wish I was only talking about just this year.
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In comment 13146096 Dave in Hoboken said:
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Just don't throw a back-breaking INT so consistently. *shrug*
Ok he has 2 4th quarter wins this year. So 2 for 3. What percentage are we looking for? 75-80%? 100%?
I wish I was only talking about just this year.
Last year Go ahead and game tying drives in the 4th quarter:
SF
NO
Carolina
NE
Miami
Eli takes a lot of chances, he makes some bad reads sometimes.. it happens. The worst throw he made all day on Sunday was probably the one that actually didn't get picked off.
It sucks when he turns the ball over in a big spot but this idea that it happens consistently is a bit of a reach.
Ive seen Aaron Rodgers do it too! Big Ben does it a ton too. Great quarterbacks take risky throws in order to win games. Does it suck when it happens? Of course it does.... but I have a feeling if Eli played it safe like people in this thread want, then we are having less rings and less wins.
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In comment 13146096 Dave in Hoboken said:
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Just don't throw a back-breaking INT so consistently. *shrug*
Ok he has 2 4th quarter wins this year. So 2 for 3. What percentage are we looking for? 75-80%? 100%?
I wish I was only talking about just this year.
He's 9th all time in 4th quarter comebacks.
What year(s) are you talking about?
It's as if people only watch the Giants game, turn off the TV, then bitch about Eli, not realizing most/all QBs make the same errors.
The rest of the league and it's fans would laugh at you if you answer no to that question.
And it has nothing to do with whether or not other QBs throw picks. We all know they do. Never said they didn't. But I would be interested in knowing if they are in that soul-crushing part of the game where it most likely ends the game. I don't even care about the past years anymore. But it really shouldn't be happening at this stage of the game against an inferior opponent down 2 CBs, at home. Stop.
Sure, he did. But Wilson also might not have thrown as many soul-crushers as Eli has, either.
You're not supporting it with anything factual.
The rest of the league and it's fans would laugh at you if you answer no to that question.
And it has nothing to do with whether or not other QBs throw picks. We all know they do. Never said they didn't. But I would be interested in knowing if they are in that soul-crushing part of the game where it most likely ends the game. I don't even care about the past years anymore. But it really shouldn't be happening at this stage of the game against an inferior opponent down 2 CBs, at home. Stop.
But it did. And he has made throws against the best teams of all time to clinch wins.
And I am pretty sure the other team coaches know they were down 2 Cbs and altered their defense because of that. If you see the replay, Vereen - one of the best pass catching backs in the NFL, had 1 on 1 with a LB. He wins the matchup 9 out of 10 times. If caught, game is over.... there was no one in the middle of the field. The LB played good defense, and made a great play and Eli made a poor throw.
It absolutely sucks that it happens, but that was the matchup we wanted.
So you're gonna tell me Russell Wilsom throwing a game ending INT in the Super Bowl isn't "soul crushing"?
Does he throw too many INTS? Probably.
But you're being silly.
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Not a peep.
Sure, he did. But Wilson also might not have thrown as many soul-crushers as Eli has, either.
I am damn sure Eli hasnt thrown a worse pick than Wilson did in the SB. And if anyone tries to argue that he has, Ill just laugh and laugh and laugh....
So you're gonna tell me Russell Wilsom throwing a game ending INT in the Super Bowl isn't "soul crushing"?
Does he throw too many INTS? Probably.
But you're being silly.
Of course nothing is worse than throwing a pick to end a SB. Never said it wasn't. So, please stop putting words in my mouth.
"Probably." Haha. Ya' think?
I don't have Giants games on DVD and memorize every ending to every disasterous Giants game over the past 4 years or so (and prior to that, as well). Sorry. But you guys are right. My bad.
"I wish I was only talking about this year."
Now it's: "it's not so much about the past INTs."
So you're now only pissed about one "soul crushing" int?
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for soul-crushing INTs. Anyway, it's not so much about the past INTs, like I said. It's more about the fact that here it is at home against an inferior opponent with a secondary down 2 CBs. Ick.
"I wish I was only talking about this year."
Now it's: "it's not so much about the past INTs."
So you're now only pissed about one "soul crushing" int?
You are right.
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What was the last one he threw prior to Sunday?
I don't have Giants games on DVD and memorize every ending to every disasterous Giants game over the past 4 years or so (and prior to that, as well). Sorry. But you guys are right. My bad.
Well, I'd think that if it happens as often as you insinuate.. a "soul-crushing INT" shouldn't be something you need to re-watch a game to remember and should be pretty easy to recall.
It's not too hard to recall soul-crushing losses in general even if they occurred a decade ago.
Maybe he just doesn't throw them as much as you think he does?
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In comment 13146159 arcarsenal said:
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What was the last one he threw prior to Sunday?
I don't have Giants games on DVD and memorize every ending to every disasterous Giants game over the past 4 years or so (and prior to that, as well). Sorry. But you guys are right. My bad.
Well, I'd think that if it happens as often as you insinuate.. a "soul-crushing INT" shouldn't be something you need to re-watch a game to remember and should be pretty easy to recall.
It's not too hard to recall soul-crushing losses in general even if they occurred a decade ago.
Maybe he just doesn't throw them as much as you think he does?
You are right. He does not. Barely any, now that I think about it.
Interesting logic
I'm simply looking for an intelligent discussion. You don't seem to be able to produce anything other than "That sucks bro" type posts.
The constant whining, bitching, and moaning is exhausting.
Not for me. I don't automatically think as Russel as a 'winner' and I certainly don't think as Ben as any kind of IronMan. I think people think of Eli as more of an Iron Man than Ben is. His streak of playing games is brought up a fair amount these days; as it should be (*knocks on wood*). And I certainly don't think as Eli as some kind of a fool or even turnover happy, especially since McAdoo got here. But it just goes to show; one slight criticism...and boom. JoeMP was right.
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to this franchise personally. It's odd.
I'm simply looking for an intelligent discussion. You don't seem to be able to produce anything other than "That sucks bro" type posts.
The constant whining, bitching, and moaning is exhausting.
The only kind of 'intelligent discusion' you're interested in are topic of discussion that paint the Giants as error-less....bro.
The constant sucking, whining, blowing is even worse.
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According to the media, Russell Wilson is "just a winner" despite choking in his last three playoff games (Packers let him off the hook) and Ben is an ironman, despite missing a month every season due to injury. Eli's label is that of a turnover-prone, bumbling fool, which is why there was radio silence the first two weeks of the season and a lot of noise all of a sudden after Sunday's performance.
Not for me. I don't automatically think as Russel as a 'winner' and I certainly don't think as Ben as any kind of IronMan. I think people think of Eli as more of an Iron Man than Ben is. His streak of playing games is brought up a fair amount these days; as it should be (*knocks on wood*). And I certainly don't think as Eli as some kind of a fool or even turnover happy, especially since McAdoo got here. But it just goes to show; one slight criticism...and boom. JoeMP was right.
Criticism in the right context is fair. If you said that it sucked ass that eli threw a shitty pick and had an off game - no one would argue with you.
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According to the media, Russell Wilson is "just a winner" despite choking in his last three playoff games (Packers let him off the hook) and Ben is an ironman, despite missing a month every season due to injury. Eli's label is that of a turnover-prone, bumbling fool, which is why there was radio silence the first two weeks of the season and a lot of noise all of a sudden after Sunday's performance.
Not for me. I don't automatically think as Russel as a 'winner' and I certainly don't think as Ben as any kind of IronMan. I think people think of Eli as more of an Iron Man than Ben is. His streak of playing games is brought up a fair amount these days; as it should be (*knocks on wood*). And I certainly don't think as Eli as some kind of a fool or even turnover happy, especially since McAdoo got here. But it just goes to show; one slight criticism...and boom. JoeMP was right.
The issue is it isn't "slight criticism".
It's every fucking pass, every fucking game. And this idea that I can't be critical of this organization is something you're making up..
You got called out on your bullshit on this thread (by multiple posters) and now are looking for someone else to blame.
I've been a fan of this team for 40 years...hope to be for another 40.
I simply choose not to complain about every singe thing that happens. This is a long term investment.
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In comment 13146184 bceagle05 said:
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According to the media, Russell Wilson is "just a winner" despite choking in his last three playoff games (Packers let him off the hook) and Ben is an ironman, despite missing a month every season due to injury. Eli's label is that of a turnover-prone, bumbling fool, which is why there was radio silence the first two weeks of the season and a lot of noise all of a sudden after Sunday's performance.
Not for me. I don't automatically think as Russel as a 'winner' and I certainly don't think as Ben as any kind of IronMan. I think people think of Eli as more of an Iron Man than Ben is. His streak of playing games is brought up a fair amount these days; as it should be (*knocks on wood*). And I certainly don't think as Eli as some kind of a fool or even turnover happy, especially since McAdoo got here. But it just goes to show; one slight criticism...and boom. JoeMP was right.
Criticism in the right context is fair. If you said that it sucked ass that eli threw a shitty pick and had an off game - no one would argue with you.
You're right. He never throws bad picks. And if he does, it's on the same level as the best QB's in the league. My bad.
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In comment 13146184 bceagle05 said:
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According to the media, Russell Wilson is "just a winner" despite choking in his last three playoff games (Packers let him off the hook) and Ben is an ironman, despite missing a month every season due to injury. Eli's label is that of a turnover-prone, bumbling fool, which is why there was radio silence the first two weeks of the season and a lot of noise all of a sudden after Sunday's performance.
Not for me. I don't automatically think as Russel as a 'winner' and I certainly don't think as Ben as any kind of IronMan. I think people think of Eli as more of an Iron Man than Ben is. His streak of playing games is brought up a fair amount these days; as it should be (*knocks on wood*). And I certainly don't think as Eli as some kind of a fool or even turnover happy, especially since McAdoo got here. But it just goes to show; one slight criticism...and boom. JoeMP was right.
The issue is it isn't "slight criticism".
It's every fucking pass, every fucking game. And this idea that I can't be critical of this organization is something you're making up..
You got called out on your bullshit on this thread (by multiple posters) and now are looking for someone else to blame.
I've been a fan of this team for 40 years...hope to be for another 40.
I simply choose not to complain about every singe thing that happens. This is a long term investment.
And for the past four years, this team has been a Loser. Guess what? People, especially this day in age, are going to complain about it, especially on the internet. It's a rather harmless way for people express their disappointment.
The fact that there are people on here, who aren't paid by the Giants, that take that as a personal insult, is something that those people themselves should desperately seek some help for. Sorry dude, I love Eli. But he does throw his fair share of bad picks. They've cut down since McAdoo came aboard, but they are still there, albeit not as bad as pre- McAdoo. It is what it is.
Difference is Eli doesn't get a free pass from media like others do (Brees, Ben, Wilson, etc)
As stated above: The narrative is Eli is a turnover machine goofball.
I find it frustrating. We will all miss him when he is gone.
Manning is also usually money in the clutch. I had no doubt the Giants were going to win Sunday when they held Washington to 3. I think we always expect him to save the day. The 2 Superbowls kinda get your expectations up.
Is just didn't work out this time. I will bet you, though, he'll pull a rabbit out of his hat sometime this year.
But besides that, Eli's worst attribute is also his best; he will take chances with the football. He'll attempt throws the majority of passers won't even dream of. The greatness of Eli is that he will sometimes complete them, and they turn out to be iconic plays in his career. The opposite of that is that sometimes they lead to devastating turnovers that end the game or put the game out of reach. The problem is that many fans will attribute the positive outcomes to luck (i.e. the Helmet Catch), and attribute the negative outcomes to mediocrity or worse.
For whatever reason, people seem to put way more stock into anything negatively related to Eli than to anything positive. And in no way am I saying the guy is infallible, because he isn't, but whatever faults he's had has all been worth it for me. The dude has given Giants fans some of the greatest sports moments in their lives, he's an absolute New York sports icon, yet he's generally looked at as a problem. It's sad and a shame, because he really does deserve better.
But this also leads to another great trait for Eli, which extends beyond the football field: he doesn't ever seem to be bothered by what people think of him. He's always been a stand up guy and will take the blame, when his line breaks down, when his receivers hang him out to dry, when his defense decides to do their best paper mache impression after yet another 4th quarter comeback. He'll bear the cross and never point the finger at anyone else. If I was a player I'd love to play with somebody like that, as opposed to any number of whiny QB's that will throw you under the bus.
If I'm being honest, I never thought it would be true, but Eli has become my favorite athlete, even more so than Jeter. And in due time, when his career is over, I'm sure the lot of us will look back and remember just how great he is/was.
Only thing I will say about this place is some sure are so quick to point out every little criticism made on this board is incorrect, despite the fact that the Giants have had a flat-out bad 4 years in a row. It's odd.
TommyWiseau : 9:48 pm : link : reply
In comment 13145943 shelovesnycsports said:
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The Sky is blue.
And so is my penis
Has this been happening for 4 hours?
Only thing I will say about this place is some sure are so quick to point out every little criticism made on this board is incorrect, despite the fact that the Giants have had a flat-out bad 4 years in a row. It's odd.
Are we talking about Eli's soul crushing INTs or the teams 4 bad years in a row? You keep changing the argument.
Nobody is denying the past few years have been shitty. I'm sick of it as well, but things are on the up and up.
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that of course every other QB in the league throw bad picks from time to time. Just seems like throws more soul-crushers. Maybe I am wrong, though.
Only thing I will say about this place is some sure are so quick to point out every little criticism made on this board is incorrect, despite the fact that the Giants have had a flat-out bad 4 years in a row. It's odd.
Are we talking about Eli's soul crushing INTs or the teams 4 bad years in a row? You keep changing the argument.
Nobody is denying the past few years have been shitty. I'm sick of it as well, but things are on the up and up.
I didn't change shit. Just a couple of posts ago you were talking about how you "don't complain after every little thing" and this is a "long term investment for you." Nice try, though. I mean...Jesus..
leads the league in fumbles since 2006 with 121
I can live with INTs downfield, but when you get intercepted on a pass that is going for less than five yards, that's terrible. Happens way too much to Eli
if he takes care of the ball, he is as good as anybody in the league. But until that happens, he is not in the same category as guys like Brady
leads the league in fumbles since 2006 with 121
I can live with INTs downfield, but when you get intercepted on a pass that is going for less than five yards, that's terrible. Happens way too much to Eli
if he takes care of the ball, he is as good as anybody in the league. But until that happens, he is not in the same category as guys like Brady
What do the actual numbers look like, because he has also played more games then anyone since 2006.
You're more than welcome to your decision, but doesn't it seem like throwing out the baby with the bathwater to punish BBI for individual posts you don't like?
You keep coming here, don't you? You keep using the site for information on the Giants, don't you? The site offers much more than the Corner, and the Corner offers much more than the posts that "don't make sense," doesn't it?
You don't have to contribute, but that's a really glib, stupid reason not to.
In my 30 plus years of being a Giants fan I can't think of a time where the Giants QB has been under more constant scrutiny then now. It just gets tired.
It sure does. Especially since the guy brought us two Super Bowls and was well on our way to another until Plax shot himself. And the collapse I blame on the staff for not making adjustments to compensate for his absence. Belichik would have upended the playbook and come up with something to counter Plax's absence. Remember we BEAT both SuperBowl teams that year. Eli was the QB.
Do we have a fact checker in the house? Because I'm fairly sure this is false.
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You're more than welcome to your decision, but doesn't it seem like throwing out the baby with the bathwater to punish BBI for individual posts you don't like?
You keep coming here, don't you? You keep using the site for information on the Giants, don't you? The site offers much more than the Corner, and the Corner offers much more than the posts that "don't make sense," doesn't it?
You don't have to contribute, but that's a really glib, stupid reason not to.
I have donated. My comment was a bit much...I've supported this site for a long time.
He also makes some great throws (that never should have been thrown) that work out well.
But, drkenneth is right that discussion has gone down the tubes on BBI (not that it was ever consistently good in the past). trolls, dupes, and allowing abhorrent behavior by some of the regulars has caused degeneration of the corner. regardless of how he phrased it, it's a valid criticism that it's a sketchy decision whether to pay for this setup, especially when the ads are getting more and more annoying/intrusive.
okiegiant : 9/27/2016 11:44 pm : link : reply
Manning is also usually money in the clutch. I had no doubt the Giants were going to win Sunday when they held Washington to 3. I think we always expect him to save the day. The 2 Superbowls kinda get your expectations up.
You are all jumping on the OP, but I am sure you feel the same way.......
We all felt Eli would pull it out.....and then, the announcers started with the "Eli is clutch" in the fourth quarter......once they said that, you knew it wouldn't happen...it seems to happen all the the time when announcers do this, in a negative way...
We tend to look at Eli, as 2011 Eli....we haven't seen that guy for 4 seasons....2011 Eli could carry a team, despite a poor OL, without a running game, and a defense that gave up more points in the regular season than the offense scored.....
In fact, that Eli may be responsible for what has transpired over the years to this offense...in 2011, he did not have a good OL......but somehow he would maneuver in the pocket, get extra time, and find a receiver....the front office must have thought, we can win with any line we put in front of him, because they waited too long to repair/rebuild it...5 years later, it still isn't fixed....
As far as Giant fans are concerned, for the most part, Eli can do no wrong,......the OP was just expressing, how a lot of fans feel....we love Eli....we expect him to come through in the clutch in the fourth quarter, especially with 2 minutes left, 2 timeouts, and all we need is a fg....
Problem is, 2011 Eli is no more....yes we have seen flashes here and there.....but the state of the OL these last 5 years have turned him into what he is now....I think that is what the OP means by reaching his full potential.....2011 Eli did not get rattled....2016 Eli does.....
There is no doubt, Eli is the greatest QB the Giants have ever had....we miss 2011 Eli....the front office failed him miserably, by stunting his growth as a qb, by putting him behind these OL's of the last 5 years....
Shame on you Reese.....Shame on you Ownership, for letting Reese do this.....we had a franchise qb that was on the verge of being an elite one.....and you failed him....if you gave him an OL, and weapons, he could have won with weak/average defenses....instead, they never had a plan....they did a patchwork job of fixing things....they tried to repeat, instead of rebuild.....they bought a clock, instead of an OL.....Eli has put up good numbers.....but you took a part of him, that prevented him from "reaching his potential".....maybe that was a poor choice of words, on the OP's part, but you all know what he was trying to say.....
But besides that, Eli's worst attribute is also his best; he will take chances with the football. He'll attempt throws the majority of passers won't even dream of. The greatness of Eli is that he will sometimes complete them, and they turn out to be iconic plays in his career. The opposite of that is that sometimes they lead to devastating turnovers that end the game or put the game out of reach. The problem is that many fans will attribute the positive outcomes to luck (i.e. the Helmet Catch), and attribute the negative outcomes to mediocrity or worse.
For whatever reason, people seem to put way more stock into anything negatively related to Eli than to anything positive. And in no way am I saying the guy is infallible, because he isn't, but whatever faults he's had has all been worth it for me. The dude has given Giants fans some of the greatest sports moments in their lives, he's an absolute New York sports icon, yet he's generally looked at as a problem. It's sad and a shame, because he really does deserve better.
But this also leads to another great trait for Eli, which extends beyond the football field: he doesn't ever seem to be bothered by what people think of him. He's always been a stand up guy and will take the blame, when his line breaks down, when his receivers hang him out to dry, when his defense decides to do their best paper mache impression after yet another 4th quarter comeback. He'll bear the cross and never point the finger at anyone else. If I was a player I'd love to play with somebody like that, as opposed to any number of whiny QB's that will throw you under the bus.
If I'm being honest, I never thought it would be true, but Eli has become my favorite athlete, even more so than Jeter. And in due time, when his career is over, I'm sure the lot of us will look back and remember just how great he is/was.
Great post!
More to the point, some of his best play has already been seen. As more opportunities come up, its more likely to see his play revert his carreer norms.
What point is going "more to the point"?
You do realize that Eli's last couple seasons have been his best statistically, right? What regression to the mean is expected?
He also makes some great throws (that never should have been thrown) that work out well.
But, drkenneth is right that discussion has gone down the tubes on BBI (not that it was ever consistently good in the past). trolls, dupes, and allowing abhorrent behavior by some of the regulars has caused degeneration of the corner. regardless of how he phrased it, it's a valid criticism that it's a sketchy decision whether to pay for this setup, especially when the ads are getting more and more annoying/intrusive.
Re Eli throwing bad picks, less publicized of course, but so do Aaron Rodgers, Ben, Russell Wilson, Cam Newton, Joe Flaccoand Other SB participants. I would name Matt Ryan and Rivers, but they're not yet SB QBs..
it is the frequency of interceptions that matters and Eli is significantly higher (202) than his 2004 class Big Ben (151) and Rivers (135) in picks.
As interceptions/turnovers are a key determinant of whether a team wins, it is not surprising that Big Ben (.669) and Rivers (.571) have higher regular season winning percentages than Eli (.532).
fair or not, when you are the #1 overall QB in a draft with 2 other QBs taken high, and an older brother who was also a former #1 overall pick, you are going to be compared against them and not against the cutlers, tannehills and cousins of the world.
And Rodgers never played in the offense Manning played in...no one is saying Manning is better or Rodgers is better. All most were saying is all QB'S throw picks at times. Any discussion of Manning brings out the he sucks or he can do no wrong factions. It's good to remember he is an outstanding QB with warts.
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More to the point, some of his best play has already been seen. As more opportunities come up, its more likely to see his play revert his carreer norms.
What point is going "more to the point"?
You do realize that Eli's last couple seasons have been his best statistically, right? What regression to the mean is expected?
His "clutch" play. The two playoff runs and superbowl MVPs werre unbelievable performances. He overall body of work does not match that level. As clutch is poorly defined talent, it is likely that his performance in pressure situations will match overall performance. Reversion to the mean.
It doesn't matter what his stats say in 2016; his relative ability compared to the league hasn't really changed.
This is one of the dumbest thought out threads I ever read.
leads the league in fumbles since 2006 with 121
I can live with INTs downfield, but when you get intercepted on a pass that is going for less than five yards, that's terrible. Happens way too much to Eli
if he takes care of the ball, he is as good as anybody in the league. But until that happens, he is not in the same category as guys like Brady
So he's not in the category of the guy who is arguably the greatest quarterback ever.
I can live with that.
Did that game knock us out of the playoff picture?...is Eli retiring this season?...if he doesn't win another Superbowl do you really feel his career was short-changed?
If you answered "yes" to any of the above questions, then here is the deal with you...
you're a chucklehead.
That's what I remember.
A lot of these guys get blown up by their stats, because people don't watch their games, they watch their highlights and fantasy numbers. I think Rodgers is one of them. Sure, he's great. But in the context of games, he's not as great as a lot of people make him out to be. In fact, he's been struggling for awhile now. And yeah, people will post his stats here and say "if that's struggling, I'll take that all day". But in the context of the actual story of each individual game, stats aren't getting results.
Or...
"A guy making that much money has to hit that throw 100% of the time, 'so and so' would."
That's just not true. When you watch the games, everybody misses throws all the time. Even the best.
Brady missed Wes Welker on a throw that would have been a dagger in the Superbowl against us.
Aaron Rodgers overthrough a wide open Jordy Nelson for a TD on the first drive against us in the 2011 divisional round. Had to settle for 3 instead of 7.
And those are just on a big stage. They miss throws like that routinely every game in the regular season.
They throw game ending INT's like Rodgers did last week.
Perception is not reality.
His "relative ability". If his stats put him in the Top 5, that wouldn't differ than if it put him in the To 15?
Just another convoluted way to bash eli I guess.
"Even if he has great stats, it doesn't mean shit!"
Or...
"A guy making that much money has to hit that throw 100% of the time, 'so and so' would."
That's just not true. When you watch the games, everybody misses throws all the time. Even the best.
Brady missed Wes Welker on a throw that would have been a dagger in the Superbowl against us.
Aaron Rodgers overthrough a wide open Jordy Nelson for a TD on the first drive against us in the 2011 divisional round. Had to settle for 3 instead of 7.
And those are just on a big stage. They miss throws like that routinely every game in the regular season.
They throw game ending INT's like Rodgers did last week.
Perception is not reality.
eli played lights out in the playoffs in 2011 - it's because we know he is capable of that we are disappointed we can't see that level of play consistently.
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"Oh, that quarterback or this quarterback NEVER misses THAT throw (that Eli had just missed or intercepted."
Or...
"A guy making that much money has to hit that throw 100% of the time, 'so and so' would."
That's just not true. When you watch the games, everybody misses throws all the time. Even the best.
Brady missed Wes Welker on a throw that would have been a dagger in the Superbowl against us.
Aaron Rodgers overthrough a wide open Jordy Nelson for a TD on the first drive against us in the 2011 divisional round. Had to settle for 3 instead of 7.
And those are just on a big stage. They miss throws like that routinely every game in the regular season.
They throw game ending INT's like Rodgers did last week.
Perception is not reality.
again, it's not that other QBs don't miss throws throw picks or fumble. it's that eli does it in significantly higher frequencies than other QBs who he will always be compared to as a #1 overall pick, fair or not. and yes it has a bottom line impact on team wins which as I posted above, eli is flirting with 500 in the regular season.
eli played lights out in the playoffs in 2011 - it's because we know he is capable of that we are disappointed we can't see that level of play consistently.
Can you prove that they miss plays on a regular basis. And basing it on wins and losses on INTS and ignoring the other 100 factors proves an agenda and not fact.
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In comment 13146455 Britt in VA said:
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"Oh, that quarterback or this quarterback NEVER misses THAT throw (that Eli had just missed or intercepted."
Or...
"A guy making that much money has to hit that throw 100% of the time, 'so and so' would."
That's just not true. When you watch the games, everybody misses throws all the time. Even the best.
Brady missed Wes Welker on a throw that would have been a dagger in the Superbowl against us.
Aaron Rodgers overthrough a wide open Jordy Nelson for a TD on the first drive against us in the 2011 divisional round. Had to settle for 3 instead of 7.
And those are just on a big stage. They miss throws like that routinely every game in the regular season.
They throw game ending INT's like Rodgers did last week.
Perception is not reality.
again, it's not that other QBs don't miss throws throw picks or fumble. it's that eli does it in significantly higher frequencies than other QBs who he will always be compared to as a #1 overall pick, fair or not. and yes it has a bottom line impact on team wins which as I posted above, eli is flirting with 500 in the regular season.
eli played lights out in the playoffs in 2011 - it's because we know he is capable of that we are disappointed we can't see that level of play consistently.
Can you prove that they miss plays on a regular basis. And basing it on wins and losses on INTS and ignoring the other 100 factors proves an agenda and not fact.
And lose a SB on an INT from your the Pats' 1 yardline with less than a minute to play
INTs or defensive ranks?
THAT we can agree on
He was tied around 8th in '14 and '15 and in the 30's in '13.
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It doesn't matter what his stats say in 2016; his relative ability compared to the league hasn't really changed.
His "relative ability". If his stats put him in the Top 5, that wouldn't differ than if it put him in the To 15?
Just another convoluted way to bash eli I guess.
"Even if he has great stats, it doesn't mean shit!"
I don't think stats mean much for this discussion. Its about his failure in a situation where we were hoping for success. The situation is by definition a small sample. He's been great in those situations. Better than his overall performance. Two options: Either you believe he is "clutch" or you have some reasonable understanding that he will not always have success like he has in the past. Over the course of his career, his play in pressure or "clutch" will approach that of his overall play.
Why you think that is bashing Eli, I have no idea.
This proves nothing other than stats can always be cherry picked and the past is the past and has little to do with what the future brings.
That's what this boils down to. Eli didn't win the game in the end and people are going nuts that this signals some sort of watershed moment where he's going to drop off a cliff in his ability to put the team on his back. Despite little evidence to the contrary.
Stats aren't pertinent to the discussion apparently because they don't fit the narrative. I guess his 4th quarter comeback stats are just bullshit too.
This proves nothing other than stats can always be cherry picked and the past is the past and has little to do with what the future brings.
Cherry-picking stats are one of the few major annoyances on here(aside from trolls and out-of-the-woodwork naysayers) and the main reason I pay little attention to, other than W-L records and the major injuries that may have affected them
2. Despite his two game winning drives to start the year, the one from last week is more of a norm for how he usually does.
disproportionately high fumbles and INTs relative to his peers are the flip side of sublime Eli which we saw in the playoffs.
You micro-analyze the sh-t out of him. I get it. But don't think you can compare his entire snap count to a handful of plays you saw of another guy in a highlight or stat sheet.
disproportionately high fumbles and INTs relative to his peers are the flip side of sublime Eli which we saw in the playoffs.
And your defense not getting off the field also limits your offense's chance to make plays and score points. The first game at Dallas is a pure example where we had the ball for 23 minutes. Like SB 25 and 46 where the defense gets the accolades, however the offense staying on the field for 40 minutes limited the opportunities for the better offenses.
If you are going to try and argue that Pittsburgh and the Giants have had similar defense throughout ben and eli's career, you will look ridiculous.
The offense had the ball for 20 minutes, scored three TD's on every trip to the red zone and Eli had 3TD passes. But people see a 20-19 score and complain that the offense was subpar.
Some have said Eli's played three poor games (one poster actually said 3 horrendous games). So I'm not really sure there's any sort of semblance of logic when it comes to discussing things.
I can hear it now: "Eli didn't even lead the team to a single TD! You think players like Ben Roethlisberger would do that?"
I noticed you dont include sacks in your negative plays. So does Eli get credit for being sacked 30 some less times than Rivers and over 130 less than Big ben despite playing more games than them?
The offense had the ball for 20 minutes, scored three TD's on every trip to the red zone and Eli had 3TD passes. But people see a 20-19 score and complain that the offense was subpar.
Some have said Eli's played three poor games (one poster actually said 3 horrendous games). So I'm not really sure there's any sort of semblance of logic when it comes to discussing things.
This is why I dont care what anyone who says thing about me and Eli anymore. There was a poster who said he played poor and another poster who said he was inaccurate in the saints game after a tweet came out and said 39 of the 41 throws hit the WRs in the hands. Doesnt get much poorer than that.
I can hear it now: "Eli didn't even lead the team to a single TD! You think players like Ben Roethlisberger would do that?"
The Giants did lose to the Eagles like that, in each of the past 2 seasons, at turning points. I think Manning had a TD in 1 of the games (but overall a terrible game) and 0 in the other.
The Eagles own the Giants. Manning, for all his accomplishments, has not had a great career against Philadelphia. 2011 Cruz game and Plax comeback 2 exceptions. 0-2 in the post-season and a lopsided losing record overall.
That being said, there have been games where the rest of the team was not playing well and we needed Eli to elevate his play to pull the team through for a win. It may be unfair to him, but any mistake by Eli in those situations combined with all of the other crap by the rest of the team (penalties, turnovers, special teams breakdowns, poor defense) means we most likely will not win that day.
So, that really is not much of a negative against Eli. There are not many QBs who have played in the league who are special enough to be able to overcome a crumbling team around them and make lemonade out of lemons.
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on Sunday? Without even one offensive TD?
I can hear it now: "Eli didn't even lead the team to a single TD! You think players like Ben Roethlisberger would do that?"
The Giants did lose to the Eagles like that, in each of the past 2 seasons, at turning points. I think Manning had a TD in 1 of the games (but overall a terrible game) and 0 in the other.
The Eagles own the Giants. Manning, for all his accomplishments, has not had a great career against Philadelphia. 2011 Cruz game and Plax comeback 2 exceptions. 0-2 in the post-season and a lopsided losing record overall.
And I'm sure the quote I made up about that was tossed around in some capacity after those, no doubt.
The point is, again, it happens to everybody.
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Aaron Rodgers has never thrown 15 INTs in any season. Eli has done it seven times.
And Rodgers never played in the offense Manning played in...no one is saying Manning is better or Rodgers is better. All most were saying is all QB'S throw picks at times. Any discussion of Manning brings out the he sucks or he can do no wrong factions. It's good to remember he is an outstanding QB with warts.
Rodgers never played in the offense that Eli has played in? Have you forgotten who our HC is and where he came from?
The basis of my criticism of Eli is that he's far too mistake-prone. Conservative to a fault and also far aggressive in situations and sets/routes where it was too risky a choice. Frankly it's maddening how inconsistent he is in his play and decision making.
The response from the sycophants has been that other good/great QBs make as many, if not more mistakes; that's simply false.
That's not to say that I don't appreciate what a professional demeanor and success he's brought to NY. But that isn't enough to appease super fans dep, et al. If you don't speak glowingly of Eli at all times and work 24/7 to deflect valid criticisms, then you're simply a bad fan, unappreciative, or stupid.
Fuck that.
I love when people call me a super fan after acknowledging he didnt play well against Washington and the INT against Dallas was his fault. But whatever to drive their pointless rambling about how throwing it to wide open guys is a "bad decision".
This notion that because he's won two SBs, he should be exempt from critique is absurd.
This notion that because he's won two SBs, he should be exempt from critique is absurd.
No one ever said he cant be critiqued. Its when people say that he hasnt played well at all this year despite what his % says is kind of when these debates start.
Someone says something stupid, its disproven, then you start to name call. Rinse and repeat.
I love when people call me a super fan after acknowledging he didnt play well against Washington and the INT against Dallas was his fault. But whatever to drive their pointless rambling about how throwing it to wide open guys is a "bad decision".
My calling you a super fan is meant to be ironic.
The constant blathering about no one play decides a game - as if this was ever in question; only to have meltdown after meltdown on hame threads about individual plays and players.
Don't believe me? Ask Fatman. He's put your jackassery on display more than once. Except of course when it comes anything Eli does. Then it's hand in your pocket time while you come up with every excuse in the world why it wasn't Eli's fault.
The guy is your franchise QB. It begins and ends with him. He gets accolades when things go well and criticism when he sucks a nut. Period. Full stop.
I won't bring up the other since you'll simply deflect towards whichever other player was involved as you tend to do.
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eli has sucked this year according to MO. His play against NO was awful despite his % and numerous drops.
I love when people call me a super fan after acknowledging he didnt play well against Washington and the INT against Dallas was his fault. But whatever to drive their pointless rambling about how throwing it to wide open guys is a "bad decision".
My calling you a super fan is meant to be ironic.
The constant blathering about no one play decides a game - as if this was ever in question; only to have meltdown after meltdown on hame threads about individual plays and players.
Don't believe me? Ask Fatman. He's put your jackassery on display more than once. Except of course when it comes anything Eli does. Then it's hand in your pocket time while you come up with every excuse in the world why it wasn't Eli's fault.
The guy is your franchise QB. It begins and ends with him. He gets accolades when things go well and criticism when he sucks a nut. Period. Full stop.
No actually people have said many times an INt has lost or cost us the game. Its actually easily proven.
And again, what plays this year have I excused Eli from? I mean have I said anything as stupid as Eli hasnt played well this year even with his completion percentage? What a gem that was. I would LOVE for you to explain how Eli played poorly against the Saints..... give us your oh so great knowledge of the game there. Ill be sure to mock and make fun of you when you do. Because making you look stupid is INCREDIBLY easy.
I won't bring up the other since you'll simply deflect towards whichever other player was involved as you tend to do.
Go ahead. Explain the Cowboys and Saints game. We both agree he wasnt good agaisnt Washington.... but since you said all year - explain these 2. I need a good laugh.
Jimmy Garapolo currently leads the NFL in completion percentage. Want him as your starter? Or Sam Bradford (5th)? Andrew Luck is 21st.
Kirk Cousins led all passers last season...maybe you'd prefer him?
Feel dumb yet?
Jimmy Garapolo currently leads the NFL in completion percentage. Want him as your starter? Or Sam Bradford (5th)? Andrew Luck is 21st.
Kirk Cousins led all passers last season...maybe you'd prefer him?
Feel dumb yet?
Actually I dont remember ever citing % as a reason he has played well, only that his passes are accurate. He actually had a good completion percentage last game and for the 100th time (the number after 99 in case you didnt know), he didnt play well. So again, how can I feel dumb when I asked you to explain how he played poorly in the first two games. I am still waiting. Me thinks you have no idea why and are just looking like the idiot, as usual.
it is the frequency of interceptions that matters and Eli is significantly higher (202) than his 2004 class Big Ben (151) and Rivers (135) in picks.
As interceptions/turnovers are a key determinant of whether a team wins, it is not surprising that Big Ben (.669) and Rivers (.571) have higher regular season winning percentages than Eli (.532).
fair or not, when you are the #1 overall QB in a draft with 2 other QBs taken high, and an older brother who was also a former #1 overall pick, you are going to be compared against them and not against the cutlers, tannehills and cousins of the world.
Good post here
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In comment 13146665 dep026 said:
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eli has sucked this year according to MO. His play against NO was awful despite his % and numerous drops.
Dep doing his best Trump impression. We can all quote him on this very thread, but he didn't say it.
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In comment 13146665 dep026 said:
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And again, what plays this year have I excused Eli from? I mean have I said anything as stupid as Eli hasnt played well this year even with his completion percentage? What a gem that was.
LoL
Again, waiting on your response for saints and cowboys game.
I was thinking about this when I was looking at the fumbles. Luck seems to have leveled off. Rivers is almost an afterthought. Brees plays consistently well but isn't winning games.
Lots and lots of good young talent but will they continue growing?
Its important to remember the complicated style of offense that Eli was running for most of his career. Its no coincidence that after Gilbride was gone, his INT's dropped significantly.
No offense to Gilbride as his system brought two Lombardi's - but it had many feast or famine aspects to it. Every QB throws bad interceptions sometimes, but I attribute Eli's penchant for throwing them throughout his career to Gilbrides system coupled with Eli's gambler mentality.
In his first year under BM, he threw 14 INTS. Okay. Not great. Rodgers only threw 14 once in his career (I believe). If we are usin 14 as a benchmark, then Eli has threw 14 or more 9 times in his career.
Modus Operandi : 9/27/2016 4:30 pm : link : reply
He's really played poorly to start the season and it's been masked by his high completion perc.
So again, please explain how poorly he played in the first two games. We are all waiting...
I just proved you did.
Still waiting for you to answer.
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I noticed you dont include sacks in your negative plays. So does Eli get credit for being sacked 30 some less times than Rivers and over 130 less than Big ben despite playing more games than them?
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In comment 13146559 Les in TO said:
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I noticed you dont include sacks in your negative plays. So does Eli get credit for being sacked 30 some less times than Rivers and over 130 less than Big ben despite playing more games than them?
taking a sack is far less damaging than an interception or a fumble. you lose yards, but you still maintain possession of the ball and live to see another down. turnovers are killer, that is why turnover differential is a very strong correlator to wins.
Dont sacks on 3rd down end drives? Cant sacks take you out of field goal range? Do you know the percentage of drives stalled when a sack is involved? Because I am pretty sure most series a QB is sacked winds up with that team punting.
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In comment 13146559 Les in TO said:
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I noticed you dont include sacks in your negative plays. So does Eli get credit for being sacked 30 some less times than Rivers and over 130 less than Big ben despite playing more games than them?
taking a sack is far less damaging than an interception or a fumble. you lose yards, but you still maintain possession of the ball and live to see another down. turnovers are killer, that is why turnover differential is a very strong correlator to wins.
And shouldnt we put each turnover, fumble, and sack into context? Is an INT down 20 some points a big factor in a loss? Ive seen Eli throw a ton of them when the game is essentially over.
The one thing he does more than I would like is cough the ball up when touched. I don't really think he can be blamed with that even because it is probably just a lack of that type of athleticism and not something he is doing "wrong".
He is a great football player and a terrific QB just not the most athletic for hanging onto the ball when he is hit when not quite ready for it and therefor is a little prone to coughing it up in those moments. I don't see that correctable though. It is what he is.
I get into it with dep very infrequently even though we sometimes disagree. Sort of like Go Terps on certain subjects
Both guys are able to make their points and at least give reasoning to back them up. I can respect that.
I think dep goes way overboard on the Eli stuff, especially when it comes to throwing other guys like Beckham under the bus to make Eli look better, but he's not a run-of-the-mill moron that it here to say "Eli roolz" and then walk away from the thread.
I appreciate anyone who backs up their argument. And I even saw dep say that Eli didn't play well against the Skins, so people seem to already have a narrative about him in mind.
True jackassery is left best to someone who exists only to be a contrarian, or the legion of trolls who post only to rip reese, or just the epic morons like the Rich Houston/Elite Mobster types.
The main thing about eli is this. He threw a terrible INT to end the game and didnt have a good game overall. Peopl and fans care much more than Eli does about it. He admitted his mistake, he will move on. Some posters just cant. Its really weird at this point.
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In comment 13146587 dep026 said:
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In comment 13146559 Les in TO said:
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I noticed you dont include sacks in your negative plays. So does Eli get credit for being sacked 30 some less times than Rivers and over 130 less than Big ben despite playing more games than them?
taking a sack is far less damaging than an interception or a fumble. you lose yards, but you still maintain possession of the ball and live to see another down. turnovers are killer, that is why turnover differential is a very strong correlator to wins.
Dont sacks on 3rd down end drives? Cant sacks take you out of field goal range? Do you know the percentage of drives stalled when a sack is involved? Because I am pretty sure most series a QB is sacked winds up with that team punting.
It's just a game.
Dallas - OBJ drop
New Orleans - Donnell & OBJ drops
Washington - Rainey drop
Further, could argue both Cruz and Shepard were running free deep into secondaries after catches that could have easily been touchdowns but one fumbled and the other tripped.
But continue with the "here is the deal with Eli" crap...
And they also do what I say as well. Sacks are negative plays. Negative plays end drives. So do penalties.
And your point of sacks not determining victory? Really. Lets do the last 5 years and combined records. Top 5 most sacked teams and combined records.
2015 - Titans, Browns, 49ers, Jags, Packers (26-54)
2014 - Jags, Skins, 49ers, Bucs, Vikings (24-56)
2013 - Dolphins, Jags, Browns, Bills, Ravens (30-50)
2012 - Cards, packers, Jags, Chargers, eagles (29-51)
2011 - Rams, Cardinals, Dolphins, Seahawks, Vikings (26-54)
Only 2 playoff teams. A win percentage is pathetic. Me thinks that being sacked has a DIRECT correlation in wins and losses.
if you have a choice between a sack and an interception, you take the sack always (unless it's 4th down and you have better field position with a long throw for an interception).
I am sure it's impossible to show the percentage times scored on a drive where you are sacked. But judt look at what I just showed. The more your sacked... the more losses it leads too.
I am sure it's impossible to show the percentage times scored on a drive where you are sacked. But judt look at what I just showed. The more your sacked... the more losses it leads too.
Sure, that's a reflection of either a very porous OL, or a QB that doesn't have their internal clock running as quick as it should. That reflects poorly on either the OL or QB. Recipe for disaster. Lucky for us, Eli had one shaky game, and our OL isn't nearly as bad as it was made out to be. Eli will occasionally have one of those head scratching games, but I feel like he's done a better job of protecting the ball for the most part since we switched our offense.
A lot of bad team will fall behind early and when they need to pass to catch will inevitably throw more picks. so there may be a correlation between ints and losing. However, correlation does not equal causation.
Aaron Rodgers was sacked 46 times (2nd most) and threw 8 picks. So having been sacked nearly twice as many times, Rodgers threw half as many interceptions. Alex Smith was sacked 45 times (3rd most) and threw 7 picks. Even Ryan "I don't know how I got here" Tannehill got sacked more - 45 times - while throwing 12 picks.
So I'm not sure sacks necessarily equate to more turnovers by the QB. I think it comes down decision making and putting a premium on protecting the ball and taking smart risks. Like not throwing underhand with your off hand, for instance. Sometimes it's smarter to just take a sack rather than heaving it up as Eli does. Not because he sucks, but more because he tries to do too much.
Whatsmore, I'm not sure I agree that the fumbling is caused by lack of athleticism. Avoiding sacks? Sure. Athleticism. Fumbling is a matter of not securing the ball while moving within the pocket and, again, not trying to do too much.
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Don't believe me? Ask Fatman. He's put your jackassery on display more than once
I get into it with dep very infrequently even though we sometimes disagree. Sort of like Go Terps on certain subjects
Both guys are able to make their points and at least give reasoning to back them up. I can respect that.
I think dep goes way overboard on the Eli stuff, especially when it comes to throwing other guys like Beckham under the bus to make Eli look better, but he's not a run-of-the-mill moron that it here to say "Eli roolz" and then walk away from the thread.
I appreciate anyone who backs up their argument. And I even saw dep say that Eli didn't play well against the Skins, so people seem to already have a narrative about him in mind.
True jackassery is left best to someone who exists only to be a contrarian, or the legion of trolls who post only to rip reese, or just the epic morons like the Rich Houston/Elite Mobster types.
I didn't mean to say that you had an axe to grind with dep. But bac just when you used to post your day after game threads, and for anyone who actually reads those trainwrecks, dep's selective blame meltdowns are on display.
Aaron Rodgers was sacked 46 times (2nd most) and threw 8 picks. So having been sacked nearly twice as many times, Rodgers threw half as many interceptions. Alex Smith was sacked 45 times (3rd most) and threw 7 picks. Even Ryan "I don't know how I got here" Tannehill got sacked more - 45 times - while throwing 12 picks.
So I'm not sure sacks necessarily equate to more turnovers by the QB. I think it comes down decision making and putting a premium on protecting the ball and taking smart risks. Like not throwing underhand with your off hand, for instance. Sometimes it's smarter to just take a sack rather than heaving it up as Eli does. Not because he sucks, but more because he tries to do too much.
Whatsmore, I'm not sure I agree that the fumbling is caused by lack of athleticism. Avoiding sacks? Sure. Athleticism. Fumbling is a matter of not securing the ball while moving within the pocket and, again, not trying to do too much.
Well good thing no one equated sacks leading to turnovers. I was saying that sacks were negative plays that hurt a teams ability to win games. And as I showed before. The more a team gets sacked, the less likely they have too winning games.
Aaron Rodgers was sacked 46 times (2nd most) and threw 8 picks. So having been sacked nearly twice as many times, Rodgers threw half as many interceptions. Alex Smith was sacked 45 times (3rd most) and threw 7 picks. Even Ryan "I don't know how I got here" Tannehill got sacked more - 45 times - while throwing 12 picks.
So I'm not sure sacks necessarily equate to more turnovers by the QB. I think it comes down decision making and putting a premium on protecting the ball and taking smart risks. Like not throwing underhand with your off hand, for instance. Sometimes it's smarter to just take a sack rather than heaving it up as Eli does. Not because he sucks, but more because he tries to do too much.
Whatsmore, I'm not sure I agree that the fumbling is caused by lack of athleticism. Avoiding sacks? Sure. Athleticism. Fumbling is a matter of not securing the ball while moving within the pocket and, again, not trying to do too much.
This just backs up what we already know...Eli will take a chance and try and fit it into a tight window if he feels he has to and others would rather take the sack. I also think some of the QB's you mentioned get sacked more because they won't give up on a play or throw it unless it is a high percentage throw.
My entire point here is Eli's decision making. I never said he sucked. Thrilled to have watched him play. But the guy take too many risks and makes too many mistakes.
It's astonishing how poorly you read considering what you do.
Hows that breakdown of the cowboys and saints games where Eli played poorly going. Been waiting for a few hours.....
So again, you are not making a single point.
Have a good one.
Have a good one.
Show one posts where I equated sacks to turnovers. I didnt. I equated sacks to negative plays which I have proven.
Waiting on those game reports. You make outlandish statements. I ask you to back it up, you cant. Cant wait for you to tell us he should be more like Alex Smith next week.