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Here is the deal with Eli.....

sxdxca : 9/27/2016 8:25 pm
I think we as Giant fans want so much to pull for him , to applaud him , cheer for him and put our trust in him.

We realize he has all the makings of a great qb , possibly a legend if he reaches his full potential.

He's got 3 powerful wr's in Beckham , Cruz and Shepherd. All in there prime.

And I think it kills all of us Giant fans when he blows it. Not because we hate him , but because deep down inside we want to see him thrive , excel , dominate the NFL.. And win several more superbowl championships.

That's why people are so passionate on this board , cuz they love Eli and want him to reach his full potential....


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RE: RE: RE: No crazy expectations.  
drkenneth : 9/27/2016 10:35 pm : link
In comment 13146126 Dave in Hoboken said:
Quote:
In comment 13146103 dep026 said:


Quote:


In comment 13146096 Dave in Hoboken said:


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Just don't throw a back-breaking INT so consistently. *shrug*



Ok he has 2 4th quarter wins this year. So 2 for 3. What percentage are we looking for? 75-80%? 100%?



I wish I was only talking about just this year.


He's 9th all time in 4th quarter comebacks.

What year(s) are you talking about?
What an amazingly  
You'reMyBoyBlue!! : 9/27/2016 10:36 pm : link
douchechilling OP
.  
arcarsenal : 9/27/2016 10:37 pm : link
A lot of times I think it's an expectations/reality thing. I don't think people realize that you're going to get bad picks with most QB's once in a while. It's going to happen. Are there numbers out there that prove Eli throws INT's in this situation more than the average QB? If there are, I must have missed them.
RE: .  
drkenneth : 9/27/2016 10:39 pm : link
In comment 13146143 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
A lot of times I think it's an expectations/reality thing. I don't think people realize that you're going to get bad picks with most QB's once in a while. It's going to happen. Are there numbers out there that prove Eli throws INT's in this situation more than the average QB? If there are, I must have missed them.


It's as if people only watch the Giants game, turn off the TV, then bitch about Eli, not realizing most/all QBs make the same errors.
Russell Wilson throw a pick to lose the Supe Bowl.  
drkenneth : 9/27/2016 10:40 pm : link
Not a peep.
What am I talking about?  
Dave in Hoboken : 9/27/2016 10:42 pm : link
Are people really going to try tell me Eli doesn't throw some absolutely soul-crushing INTs at the worst time?

The rest of the league and it's fans would laugh at you if you answer no to that question.

And it has nothing to do with whether or not other QBs throw picks. We all know they do. Never said they didn't. But I would be interested in knowing if they are in that soul-crushing part of the game where it most likely ends the game. I don't even care about the past years anymore. But it really shouldn't be happening at this stage of the game against an inferior opponent down 2 CBs, at home. Stop.
RE: Russell Wilson throw a pick to lose the Supe Bowl.  
Dave in Hoboken : 9/27/2016 10:44 pm : link
In comment 13146148 drkenneth said:
Quote:
Not a peep.


Sure, he did. But Wilson also might not have thrown as many soul-crushers as Eli has, either.
.  
arcarsenal : 9/27/2016 10:45 pm : link
Your post is one giant confirmation bias.

You're not supporting it with anything factual.
RE: What am I talking about?  
dep026 : 9/27/2016 10:47 pm : link
In comment 13146149 Dave in Hoboken said:
Quote:
Are people really going to try tell me Eli doesn't throw some absolutely soul-crushing INTs at the worst time?

The rest of the league and it's fans would laugh at you if you answer no to that question.

And it has nothing to do with whether or not other QBs throw picks. We all know they do. Never said they didn't. But I would be interested in knowing if they are in that soul-crushing part of the game where it most likely ends the game. I don't even care about the past years anymore. But it really shouldn't be happening at this stage of the game against an inferior opponent down 2 CBs, at home. Stop.


But it did. And he has made throws against the best teams of all time to clinch wins.

And I am pretty sure the other team coaches know they were down 2 Cbs and altered their defense because of that. If you see the replay, Vereen - one of the best pass catching backs in the NFL, had 1 on 1 with a LB. He wins the matchup 9 out of 10 times. If caught, game is over.... there was no one in the middle of the field. The LB played good defense, and made a great play and Eli made a poor throw.

It absolutely sucks that it happens, but that was the matchup we wanted.
Can you please be specific?  
drkenneth : 9/27/2016 10:48 pm : link
You constantly speak in generalities. What "soul crushing" INTs has he thrown?

So you're gonna tell me Russell Wilsom throwing a game ending INT in the Super Bowl isn't "soul crushing"?

Does he throw too many INTS? Probably.

But you're being silly.
RE: RE: Russell Wilson throw a pick to lose the Supe Bowl.  
dep026 : 9/27/2016 10:48 pm : link
In comment 13146150 Dave in Hoboken said:
Quote:
In comment 13146148 drkenneth said:


Quote:


Not a peep.



Sure, he did. But Wilson also might not have thrown as many soul-crushers as Eli has, either.
'

I am damn sure Eli hasnt thrown a worse pick than Wilson did in the SB. And if anyone tries to argue that he has, Ill just laugh and laugh and laugh....
That's because there is no stat  
Dave in Hoboken : 9/27/2016 10:48 pm : link
for soul-crushing INTs. Anyway, it's not so much about the past INTs, like I said. It's more about the fact that here it is at home against an inferior opponent with a secondary down 2 CBs. Ick.

Well, since he throws so many of these "soul-crushing INT's"...  
arcarsenal : 9/27/2016 10:49 pm : link
What was the last one he threw prior to Sunday?
RE: Can you please be specific?  
Dave in Hoboken : 9/27/2016 10:49 pm : link
In comment 13146156 drkenneth said:
Quote:
You constantly speak in generalities. What "soul crushing" INTs has he thrown?

So you're gonna tell me Russell Wilsom throwing a game ending INT in the Super Bowl isn't "soul crushing"?

Does he throw too many INTS? Probably.

But you're being silly.


Of course nothing is worse than throwing a pick to end a SB. Never said it wasn't. So, please stop putting words in my mouth.

"Probably." Haha. Ya' think?
RE: Well, since he throws so many of these  
Dave in Hoboken : 9/27/2016 10:52 pm : link
In comment 13146159 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
What was the last one he threw prior to Sunday?


I don't have Giants games on DVD and memorize every ending to every disasterous Giants game over the past 4 years or so (and prior to that, as well). Sorry. But you guys are right. My bad.

RE: That's because there is no stat  
drkenneth : 9/27/2016 10:52 pm : link
In comment 13146158 Dave in Hoboken said:
Quote:
for soul-crushing INTs. Anyway, it's not so much about the past INTs, like I said. It's more about the fact that here it is at home against an inferior opponent with a secondary down 2 CBs. Ick.


"I wish I was only talking about this year."

Now it's: "it's not so much about the past INTs."

So you're now only pissed about one "soul crushing" int?
RE: RE: That's because there is no stat  
Dave in Hoboken : 9/27/2016 10:53 pm : link
In comment 13146166 drkenneth said:
Quote:
In comment 13146158 Dave in Hoboken said:


Quote:


for soul-crushing INTs. Anyway, it's not so much about the past INTs, like I said. It's more about the fact that here it is at home against an inferior opponent with a secondary down 2 CBs. Ick.




"I wish I was only talking about this year."

Now it's: "it's not so much about the past INTs."

So you're now only pissed about one "soul crushing" int?


You are right.
RE: RE: Well, since he throws so many of these  
arcarsenal : 9/27/2016 10:56 pm : link
In comment 13146165 Dave in Hoboken said:
Quote:
In comment 13146159 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


What was the last one he threw prior to Sunday?



I don't have Giants games on DVD and memorize every ending to every disasterous Giants game over the past 4 years or so (and prior to that, as well). Sorry. But you guys are right. My bad.


Well, I'd think that if it happens as often as you insinuate.. a "soul-crushing INT" shouldn't be something you need to re-watch a game to remember and should be pretty easy to recall.

It's not too hard to recall soul-crushing losses in general even if they occurred a decade ago.

Maybe he just doesn't throw them as much as you think he does?
RE: RE: RE: Well, since he throws so many of these  
Dave in Hoboken : 9/27/2016 10:57 pm : link
In comment 13146171 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
In comment 13146165 Dave in Hoboken said:


Quote:


In comment 13146159 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


What was the last one he threw prior to Sunday?



I don't have Giants games on DVD and memorize every ending to every disasterous Giants game over the past 4 years or so (and prior to that, as well). Sorry. But you guys are right. My bad.




Well, I'd think that if it happens as often as you insinuate.. a "soul-crushing INT" shouldn't be something you need to re-watch a game to remember and should be pretty easy to recall.

It's not too hard to recall soul-crushing losses in general even if they occurred a decade ago.

Maybe he just doesn't throw them as much as you think he does?


You are right. He does not. Barely any, now that I think about it.
RE: Posts like this are the reason I no longer donate to BBI.  
Tuckrule : 9/27/2016 11:02 pm : link
In comment 13145936 drkenneth said:
Quote:
.


Interesting logic
And posters like him  
Dave in Hoboken : 9/27/2016 11:03 pm : link
are why the same 40-50 posters post here everyday and no one ever sticks around.
Yes. I'm the issue.  
drkenneth : 9/27/2016 11:06 pm : link
Not the constant stupid posts or troll after troll.
Or the fact that you take any slight criticism  
Dave in Hoboken : 9/27/2016 11:07 pm : link
to this franchise personally. It's odd.
All I know  
tikimvp : 9/27/2016 11:08 pm : link
is that if Eli god forbid ever went down we would not be seeing what is going on in NE...or Minny...we probably would not win a single game. And the 2011 SB team was a 3-4 win team without Eli. These great WRs his had his whole career? Name the ones that have done anything without Eli.
Arc hit the key phrase: Confirmation bias.  
bceagle05 : 9/27/2016 11:10 pm : link
According to the media, Russell Wilson is "just a winner" despite choking in his last three playoff games (Packers let him off the hook) and Ben is an ironman, despite missing a month every season due to injury. Eli's label is that of a turnover-prone, bumbling fool, which is why there was radio silence the first two weeks of the season and a lot of noise all of a sudden after Sunday's performance.
RE: Or the fact that you take any slight criticism  
drkenneth : 9/27/2016 11:11 pm : link
In comment 13146182 Dave in Hoboken said:
Quote:
to this franchise personally. It's odd.


I'm simply looking for an intelligent discussion. You don't seem to be able to produce anything other than "That sucks bro" type posts.

The constant whining, bitching, and moaning is exhausting.
RE: Arc hit the key phrase: Confirmation bias.  
Dave in Hoboken : 9/27/2016 11:13 pm : link
In comment 13146184 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
According to the media, Russell Wilson is "just a winner" despite choking in his last three playoff games (Packers let him off the hook) and Ben is an ironman, despite missing a month every season due to injury. Eli's label is that of a turnover-prone, bumbling fool, which is why there was radio silence the first two weeks of the season and a lot of noise all of a sudden after Sunday's performance.


Not for me. I don't automatically think as Russel as a 'winner' and I certainly don't think as Ben as any kind of IronMan. I think people think of Eli as more of an Iron Man than Ben is. His streak of playing games is brought up a fair amount these days; as it should be (*knocks on wood*). And I certainly don't think as Eli as some kind of a fool or even turnover happy, especially since McAdoo got here. But it just goes to show; one slight criticism...and boom. JoeMP was right.
RE: RE: Or the fact that you take any slight criticism  
Dave in Hoboken : 9/27/2016 11:14 pm : link
In comment 13146185 drkenneth said:
Quote:
In comment 13146182 Dave in Hoboken said:


Quote:


to this franchise personally. It's odd.



I'm simply looking for an intelligent discussion. You don't seem to be able to produce anything other than "That sucks bro" type posts.

The constant whining, bitching, and moaning is exhausting.


The only kind of 'intelligent discusion' you're interested in are topic of discussion that paint the Giants as error-less....bro.

The constant sucking, whining, blowing is even worse.
RE: RE: Arc hit the key phrase: Confirmation bias.  
dep026 : 9/27/2016 11:15 pm : link
In comment 13146187 Dave in Hoboken said:
Quote:
In comment 13146184 bceagle05 said:


Quote:


According to the media, Russell Wilson is "just a winner" despite choking in his last three playoff games (Packers let him off the hook) and Ben is an ironman, despite missing a month every season due to injury. Eli's label is that of a turnover-prone, bumbling fool, which is why there was radio silence the first two weeks of the season and a lot of noise all of a sudden after Sunday's performance.



Not for me. I don't automatically think as Russel as a 'winner' and I certainly don't think as Ben as any kind of IronMan. I think people think of Eli as more of an Iron Man than Ben is. His streak of playing games is brought up a fair amount these days; as it should be (*knocks on wood*). And I certainly don't think as Eli as some kind of a fool or even turnover happy, especially since McAdoo got here. But it just goes to show; one slight criticism...and boom. JoeMP was right.


Criticism in the right context is fair. If you said that it sucked ass that eli threw a shitty pick and had an off game - no one would argue with you.
RE: RE: Arc hit the key phrase: Confirmation bias.  
drkenneth : 9/27/2016 11:21 pm : link
In comment 13146187 Dave in Hoboken said:
Quote:
In comment 13146184 bceagle05 said:


Quote:


According to the media, Russell Wilson is "just a winner" despite choking in his last three playoff games (Packers let him off the hook) and Ben is an ironman, despite missing a month every season due to injury. Eli's label is that of a turnover-prone, bumbling fool, which is why there was radio silence the first two weeks of the season and a lot of noise all of a sudden after Sunday's performance.



Not for me. I don't automatically think as Russel as a 'winner' and I certainly don't think as Ben as any kind of IronMan. I think people think of Eli as more of an Iron Man than Ben is. His streak of playing games is brought up a fair amount these days; as it should be (*knocks on wood*). And I certainly don't think as Eli as some kind of a fool or even turnover happy, especially since McAdoo got here. But it just goes to show; one slight criticism...and boom. JoeMP was right.


The issue is it isn't "slight criticism".

It's every fucking pass, every fucking game. And this idea that I can't be critical of this organization is something you're making up..

You got called out on your bullshit on this thread (by multiple posters) and now are looking for someone else to blame.

I've been a fan of this team for 40 years...hope to be for another 40.

I simply choose not to complain about every singe thing that happens. This is a long term investment.
RE: RE: RE: Arc hit the key phrase: Confirmation bias.  
Dave in Hoboken : 9/27/2016 11:25 pm : link
In comment 13146190 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 13146187 Dave in Hoboken said:


Quote:


In comment 13146184 bceagle05 said:


Quote:


According to the media, Russell Wilson is "just a winner" despite choking in his last three playoff games (Packers let him off the hook) and Ben is an ironman, despite missing a month every season due to injury. Eli's label is that of a turnover-prone, bumbling fool, which is why there was radio silence the first two weeks of the season and a lot of noise all of a sudden after Sunday's performance.



Not for me. I don't automatically think as Russel as a 'winner' and I certainly don't think as Ben as any kind of IronMan. I think people think of Eli as more of an Iron Man than Ben is. His streak of playing games is brought up a fair amount these days; as it should be (*knocks on wood*). And I certainly don't think as Eli as some kind of a fool or even turnover happy, especially since McAdoo got here. But it just goes to show; one slight criticism...and boom. JoeMP was right.



Criticism in the right context is fair. If you said that it sucked ass that eli threw a shitty pick and had an off game - no one would argue with you.


You're right. He never throws bad picks. And if he does, it's on the same level as the best QB's in the league. My bad.
RE: RE: RE: Arc hit the key phrase: Confirmation bias.  
Dave in Hoboken : 9/27/2016 11:28 pm : link
In comment 13146192 drkenneth said:
Quote:
In comment 13146187 Dave in Hoboken said:


Quote:


In comment 13146184 bceagle05 said:


Quote:


According to the media, Russell Wilson is "just a winner" despite choking in his last three playoff games (Packers let him off the hook) and Ben is an ironman, despite missing a month every season due to injury. Eli's label is that of a turnover-prone, bumbling fool, which is why there was radio silence the first two weeks of the season and a lot of noise all of a sudden after Sunday's performance.



Not for me. I don't automatically think as Russel as a 'winner' and I certainly don't think as Ben as any kind of IronMan. I think people think of Eli as more of an Iron Man than Ben is. His streak of playing games is brought up a fair amount these days; as it should be (*knocks on wood*). And I certainly don't think as Eli as some kind of a fool or even turnover happy, especially since McAdoo got here. But it just goes to show; one slight criticism...and boom. JoeMP was right.



The issue is it isn't "slight criticism".

It's every fucking pass, every fucking game. And this idea that I can't be critical of this organization is something you're making up..

You got called out on your bullshit on this thread (by multiple posters) and now are looking for someone else to blame.

I've been a fan of this team for 40 years...hope to be for another 40.

I simply choose not to complain about every singe thing that happens. This is a long term investment.


And for the past four years, this team has been a Loser. Guess what? People, especially this day in age, are going to complain about it, especially on the internet. It's a rather harmless way for people express their disappointment.

The fact that there are people on here, who aren't paid by the Giants, that take that as a personal insult, is something that those people themselves should desperately seek some help for. Sorry dude, I love Eli. But he does throw his fair share of bad picks. They've cut down since McAdoo came aboard, but they are still there, albeit not as bad as pre- McAdoo. It is what it is.
Do you think Eli is the only QB who throws bad picks???  
drkenneth : 9/27/2016 11:37 pm : link
That's all anyone is saying...he's no worse than any other QBs.

Difference is Eli doesn't get a free pass from media like others do (Brees, Ben, Wilson, etc)

As stated above: The narrative is Eli is a turnover machine goofball.

I find it frustrating. We will all miss him when he is gone.
Manning throws some bad picks...  
okiegiant : 9/27/2016 11:44 pm : link
And he's thrown his share to end games, as well. What we forget is all QB'S do...the great Rodgers threw one just 2 weeks ago if memory serves me.

Manning is also usually money in the clutch. I had no doubt the Giants were going to win Sunday when they held Washington to 3. I think we always expect him to save the day. The 2 Superbowls kinda get your expectations up.

Is just didn't work out this time. I will bet you, though, he'll pull a rabbit out of his hat sometime this year.
I kinda measure the football IQ of the average fan  
djl8699 : 9/27/2016 11:46 pm : link
by their opinion of Eli. Yes, he has his warts, be it boneheaded decisions at times or the occasional missed throw but so does every other QB that has ever played, and most have had way more. Football is a team game and Eli is constantly blamed for things that are not his fault. Think the 25 INTs in 2010, of which a significant amount were tipped passes; or the countless miscommunications in a risky option-route based offense with morons like Shockey or Randle. I'm convinced many of his detractors don't even watch the games, just going by the numbers or highlights. And in this age of fantasy points or bust, if you're numbers don't reflect elite stature in your position, your value will be skewed very negatively.

But besides that, Eli's worst attribute is also his best; he will take chances with the football. He'll attempt throws the majority of passers won't even dream of. The greatness of Eli is that he will sometimes complete them, and they turn out to be iconic plays in his career. The opposite of that is that sometimes they lead to devastating turnovers that end the game or put the game out of reach. The problem is that many fans will attribute the positive outcomes to luck (i.e. the Helmet Catch), and attribute the negative outcomes to mediocrity or worse.

For whatever reason, people seem to put way more stock into anything negatively related to Eli than to anything positive. And in no way am I saying the guy is infallible, because he isn't, but whatever faults he's had has all been worth it for me. The dude has given Giants fans some of the greatest sports moments in their lives, he's an absolute New York sports icon, yet he's generally looked at as a problem. It's sad and a shame, because he really does deserve better.

But this also leads to another great trait for Eli, which extends beyond the football field: he doesn't ever seem to be bothered by what people think of him. He's always been a stand up guy and will take the blame, when his line breaks down, when his receivers hang him out to dry, when his defense decides to do their best paper mache impression after yet another 4th quarter comeback. He'll bear the cross and never point the finger at anyone else. If I was a player I'd love to play with somebody like that, as opposed to any number of whiny QB's that will throw you under the bus.

If I'm being honest, I never thought it would be true, but Eli has become my favorite athlete, even more so than Jeter. And in due time, when his career is over, I'm sure the lot of us will look back and remember just how great he is/was.
I said a couple of times here  
Dave in Hoboken : 9/27/2016 11:49 pm : link
that of course every other QB in the league throw bad picks from time to time. Just seems like throws more soul-crushers. Maybe I am wrong, though.

Only thing I will say about this place is some sure are so quick to point out every little criticism made on this board is incorrect, despite the fact that the Giants have had a flat-out bad 4 years in a row. It's odd.

Uh-oh.....  
Doomster : 9/27/2016 11:51 pm : link
RE: This just in
TommyWiseau : 9:48 pm : link : reply
In comment 13145943 shelovesnycsports said:
Quote:
The Sky is blue.


And so is my penis


Has this been happening for 4 hours?
RE: I said a couple of times here  
drkenneth : 9/27/2016 11:54 pm : link
In comment 13146207 Dave in Hoboken said:
Quote:
that of course every other QB in the league throw bad picks from time to time. Just seems like throws more soul-crushers. Maybe I am wrong, though.

Only thing I will say about this place is some sure are so quick to point out every little criticism made on this board is incorrect, despite the fact that the Giants have had a flat-out bad 4 years in a row. It's odd.


Are we talking about Eli's soul crushing INTs or the teams 4 bad years in a row? You keep changing the argument.

Nobody is denying the past few years have been shitty. I'm sick of it as well, but things are on the up and up.
Funny thing is: I'm in Oxford, MS right now.  
drkenneth : 9/27/2016 11:55 pm : link
Eli's photo is on my hotel room key.
RE: RE: I said a couple of times here  
Dave in Hoboken : 9/27/2016 11:58 pm : link
In comment 13146209 drkenneth said:
Quote:
In comment 13146207 Dave in Hoboken said:


Quote:


that of course every other QB in the league throw bad picks from time to time. Just seems like throws more soul-crushers. Maybe I am wrong, though.

Only thing I will say about this place is some sure are so quick to point out every little criticism made on this board is incorrect, despite the fact that the Giants have had a flat-out bad 4 years in a row. It's odd.




Are we talking about Eli's soul crushing INTs or the teams 4 bad years in a row? You keep changing the argument.

Nobody is denying the past few years have been shitty. I'm sick of it as well, but things are on the up and up.


I didn't change shit. Just a couple of posts ago you were talking about how you "don't complain after every little thing" and this is a "long term investment for you." Nice try, though. I mean...Jesus..
Let's just move on.  
drkenneth : 9/28/2016 12:01 am : link
A win in Minny, and all is well.
I'm a huge Eli fan  
Vanzetti : 9/28/2016 12:50 am : link
but he turns the ball over too much

leads the league in fumbles since 2006 with 121

I can live with INTs downfield, but when you get intercepted on a pass that is going for less than five yards, that's terrible. Happens way too much to Eli

if he takes care of the ball, he is as good as anybody in the league. But until that happens, he is not in the same category as guys like Brady
RE: I'm a huge Eli fan  
JOrthman : 9/28/2016 1:19 am : link
In comment 13146223 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
but he turns the ball over too much

leads the league in fumbles since 2006 with 121

I can live with INTs downfield, but when you get intercepted on a pass that is going for less than five yards, that's terrible. Happens way too much to Eli

if he takes care of the ball, he is as good as anybody in the league. But until that happens, he is not in the same category as guys like Brady


What do the actual numbers look like, because he has also played more games then anyone since 2006.
Yeah, but here's the thing  
Modus Operandi : 9/28/2016 2:07 am : link
Aaron Rodgers has never thrown 15 INTs in any season. Eli has done it seven times.
Eli  
Glover : 9/28/2016 2:11 am : link
Has reached his potential for a long time now. I love this guy, Suser Bowls and 6-10 seasons. He is awesome and flawed. Can beat anyone and can lose a game single handedly. I do want one more SB, I think several is wildly unrealistic. He is so human while being super-human by never getting hurt. I don't give a fuck. Being a Giants fan has made me more able to take life's ups and downsee while maintaining a level headed outlook.
MR. Manning  
mpinmaine : 9/28/2016 3:38 am : link
is the only QB I want for the Giants, he will be bashed, which makes what he has yet to do even more gratifying,
MR. Manning  
mpinmaine : 9/28/2016 3:38 am : link
is the only QB I want for the Giants, he will be bashed, which makes what he has yet to do even more gratifying,
MR. Manning  
mpinmaine : 9/28/2016 3:37 am : link
is the only QB I want for the Giants, he will be bashed, which makes what he has yet to do even more gratifying,
MR. Manning  
mpinmaine : 9/28/2016 3:40 am : link
is the only QB I want for the Giants, he will be bashed, which makes what he has yet to do even more gratifying,
MR. Manning  
mpinmaine : 9/28/2016 3:41 am : link
is the only QB I want for the Giants, he will be bashed, which makes what he has yet to do even more gratifying,
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