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NFT: Boss Question

CMicks3110 : 9/27/2016 11:04 pm
So, I have a bit of a complicated issue with my supervisor. He is constantly saying negative and derogatory comments about other people in front of me, calling our VP a bitch, complaining about people messing with spreadsheets and calling them stupid or ignorant, he has shown limited interest in coaching others or helping them develop into better works. Now I learned that he is saying negative things about me in front of other people. Basically said that I get overwhelmed, and implying that I am not as organized as i could be. Which I completely disagree with. I work at a health plan and produce clinical data reports, including studies, dashboard reports on our performance, and developing ideas for Quality Improvement strategies for a series of clinical measures just to name a few. On top of that, I work with an antiquated database tool which constantly crashes, moves slowly, and is very complicated to accurately return outputs. He knows this, but seems annoyed that it takes a while to complete these reports. I have tried everything to speed up my processes, but I just feel at a loss because I'm trying as hard as I can, but its just not acknowledged or appreciated.

I believe he is genuinely a good person at heart, but this constant need to criticize and complain about people has made me extremely uncomfortable. The odd thing is, when you go in and ask for feedback, he has given me and others glowing reviews. But it is really irritating when he says one thing to your face, and then talks about you badly or, more accurately, with condescension behind your back. I am torn about whether or not to say something. My wife is telling me to just ignore the noise and do my work as best as I can, but I really feel I am deserving of a raise this year and this makes me less confident that he agrees that I deserve this. I really just want him to stop talking about people, including me, to colleagues and co-workers and to acknowledge the work that I and others are doing.
Was it you who were asking for advice  
compton : 9/27/2016 11:19 pm : link
about a new job offer not too long ago? That's a tough situation you are in and who needs that 40 hours a week. That's too stressful and it can burn you out. You should look for another job.
I did ask about a job a few weeks ago  
CMicks3110 : 9/27/2016 11:30 pm : link
I decided to turn it down. I mean, I like the guy to an extent, but this is just so f'ing irritating. I don't want to look for a job right now, I have a career plan, and a weakness on my resume is that i've bounced around a bit since grad school. I want to stay at one place for 2-4 years minimum and want to show growth and development. I am not in a place where I want to start something new right now. I just want the guy to stop saying shit about anyone, unless its to himself or to me. If he wants to give me feedback, fine, it helps me get better. But this gossip shit is bothersome and takes away from concentrating.
Think you need to go to HR  
section125 : 9/27/2016 11:45 pm : link
and file a formal complaint that you are being harassed.

Or, you can talk to the guy and tell him that you don't want to hear his complaints and bitches about other employees; It is distracting and with faulty equipment in use, you don't have time for his rants because you heard that he was complaining to other employees about you.
I tend to agree with your wife.  
steve in ky : 9/27/2016 11:57 pm : link
Sounds like you actually have a decent relationship with him. He also must like you if he gives you good reviews. Maybe you should just accept that he is flawed and probably doesn't mean half the things he says but has some insecurities that results in his talking negative about others.

Sure it is a bad trait for someone in his position but I'm not sure it is your place to try and fix him. It would be one thing if he was giving you unfair bad reports or treating your horribly but it doesn't sound like that at all.

IMO if you learn to accept him, flaws and all you will probably feel more pity for him than anger or frustration.

Just don't allow yourself to get sucked in to where you go along with his negative talk about others.

Since you want to stay there I wouldn't make an issue of it unless it starts to affect you reviews, etc. Just continue to take the high road. I'm sure most others are aware that he does this. If someone says that he said something about you just laugh it off and just say something like, "ha, that's just John, you know how he can be". Just be the bigger person and understand you are dealing with a smaller person who by your own description is basically a good person at heart, but has some issues. I have found understanding others flaws makes it much easier to empathize with them and what they go through and then it's easy to just roll with it and not allow it to bother you. It's his issue not yours.

Good Luck
________  
I am Ninja : 9/28/2016 12:18 am : link
"Hey [guy's name], I heard through the grapevine you had some concerns about my performance. Anything you want to discuss with me?"

You dont have to make any threats or call any names to put this fuck in his place. Once he knows his shooting his mouth off made it back to you he's going to have the oh shit moment and start to drive himself crazy wondering not whether, but how much, of all the awful shit hes said made its way to the person.
Next time  
The_Boss : 9/28/2016 12:22 am : link
Please don't air our office grievances on a public message board. Now, go wash my car.
I'm a little puzzled by the antiquated database tool complaint  
NoGainDayne : 9/28/2016 12:51 am : link
How is the data stored? I'd recommend you take a class in MySQL, either you will make your reports faster or you will be able to improve your job prospects
I would leave if you can  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 9/28/2016 6:06 am : link
Most people who goo looking for a new job are doing so for a reason. Sounds like a real crappy manager and believe me if this is already under your skin it's likely not going to change anytime soon. Better to get out soon before it get worse.
Good guy at heart?  
Chris in Philly : 9/28/2016 8:11 am : link
This guy sounds like the worst kind of two-faced douchebag. Fuck him. I would find another job. At this point I wouldn't even trust him to give you a good reference.

That he gives you good reviews doesn't mean he likes you. It means he's too much of a pussy to say what he thinks to your face. Literally the worst kind of supervisor. Find another job.
the number one reason for voluntarily leaving a job  
pjcas18 : 9/28/2016 8:22 am : link
is not money, not commute, not working conditions such as long hours, not loathing your job, it's your boss.

Sometimes money, convenience, comfort, and commute are so good it helps cover up some of the other stuff, but that only last a little while.

tons of links on this topic, I work in a field that deals with HR, so I'm fairly confident I know this stuff pretty well. One link is provided below.

Now, I'm not suggesting you leave. There are a lot of factors to consider such as do you have a family to provide for, do you have another job, are your current skills marketable, etc.

I'm not quoting science here, just personal experience from a hiring standpoint...it's much easier to get a new job when you have a job vs when you are unemployed.

And I would advise against going to HR with this depending on how big your company is. Nothing worse for HR than having an employee complain their boss is mean. if he's not breaking any laws or putting the company in a legal spot, HR more likely than not (in a big company especially) won't care.

If you do have performance reviews still (they're disappearing rapidly in corporate America) that is a good time to "voice" your concerns, they're usually anonymous and they provide a company a documented record of questionable (or worse) performance. That is actionable. Your hearsay about a manager who talks behind people's backs and doesn't provide adequate coaching or constructive feedback isn't really or at least isn't likely to be acted upon.
Link - ( New Window )
I think Steve has the right strategy for now  
jjgmrg901 : 9/28/2016 8:25 am : link
It seems that you need to keep this job as a resume builder. I think you should take the high road, last thing you want to do is get caught up with him in bashing other people. I worked for a director like yours. When I had to deal with her directly, which I avoided as best I could, I would stay away from joining in her tactics.
Unfortunately after a number of years it started to affect my professional standing within the department. I ended up retiring earlier than planned. However by staying above her tactics I sleep much better.
Good luck and follow some of the other suggestions about improving your technical knowledge.
I Am Ninja Had The Best Advice on This Thread...  
Jim in Tampa : 9/28/2016 8:31 am : link
But I would modify his approach slightly.

Tell your boss (in private of course) that you heard that there may be issues with your performance, specifically x, y and z.

Don't accuse him of saying something or even imply that he's directly responsible for the complaint. "I heard that you said..." would be perceived as a challenge and is totally unnecessary. Stating that you heard there might be issues with your performance, without attributing it to a specific person will diffuse the situation and allow your boss to address it, without being defensive.

Follow your initial statement with something like, "This concerns me because none of this came up during my performance review and in fact you gave me a good performance review."

Finish with, "Do you have concerns about x, y and z... and are there specific things that I need to do to improve?"

This approach makes you look like an employee that only wants to improve his performance and it gives your boss a less stressful way to discuss any issues he might have with you.

Good luck!
I guarantee...  
Chris in Philly : 9/28/2016 8:38 am : link
that confronting him even in the most innocuous way will put him on the defensive. He is clearly not interested in providing constructive feedback to help his reports improve their performance.
Yeah bosses love  
pjcas18 : 9/28/2016 8:44 am : link
being called out by people who report to them. Nothing bad can happen by doing that. This manager obviously is self aware and has a good handle on their own strengths and weaknesses and confronting them will only result in their working to correct their deficiencies.

And there will be zero blow back on you for calling him out.

/sarcasm

Unless this is a company you love and can't imagine working elsewhere or your skill set is so narrow there are just not a lot of other job opportunities for you beyond this company I'd keep my head down, do my job, and look elsewhere.
Raises are based on reviews  
WideRight : 9/28/2016 10:02 am : link
So you should be OK there.

Promotions can be more political, and you may have a problem there.

Your wife is right. Ignore everything that doesn't pertain to your actual work.

Good luck
I don't know how this will turn out  
CMicks3110 : 9/28/2016 10:07 am : link
but I talked to him about it. He seemed thoroughly surprised and cited our good working relationship prior and that whenever he has had an issue that he has come to me with that issue - which is true.

He said I did the right thing and he's very appreciative with my candor. But he also said he has never talked badly about people behind their backs which I know is not true, but I didn't call him on that.

I am angling to get a raise so I wanted to get this all on the table at once and he said we can talk about that next week. He was nice about the whole thing, but I'm sure he's pissed at my co-workers, but he said he won't say anything. Besides the person who was telling me this stuff sounds like she is abou to leave
Go to work strapped  
Deej : 9/28/2016 10:11 am : link
nothing ostentatious. Maybe just a 9. It will send the message.
What do you mean  
CMicks3110 : 9/28/2016 10:20 am : link
strapped
RE: What do you mean  
pjcas18 : 9/28/2016 10:22 am : link
In comment 13146471 CMicks3110 said:
Quote:
strapped


he's joking, he's saying strapped, pack heat, aka carry a firearm.
And I warned you  
pjcas18 : 9/28/2016 10:24 am : link
Carlin sums it up nicely.

I probably wouldn't have brought it up.

Hahahahaha!  
Cam in MO : 9/28/2016 10:25 am : link
Quote:
...he also said he has never talked badly about people behind their backs which I know is not true, but I didn't call him on that.


Quote:
He was nice about the whole thing, but I'm sure he's pissed at my co-workers, but he said he won't say anything.



What makes you think the guy that talks behind your back and then denies (lies about) it isn't going to "say anything" about you being a bitch about it?



advice  
giantfan2000 : 9/28/2016 10:27 am : link
I think bouncing around is not bad on resume if your career path is showing you attaining higher positions

And really you should never term down a job that offers you more money --

Borrow that guy's Islanders dolls and shove them up your bosses ass.  
pmmanning : 9/28/2016 10:32 am : link
Seriously Pjacs is 100% on.

Keep your head down, do your work and look elsewhere.
Something I always tell people who are not happy with their boss...  
EricJ : 9/28/2016 10:41 am : link
hang in there, if your boss sucks that much then you will out last him/her. Don't make any snap decisions that you may regret later.

Just document everything... and I mean everything. Send him an e-mail fully explaining the issues with the system and estimate how many working hours it costs you in a year.

Then, print out copies and keep them at home just in case the company decides to go "Hillary" on you and wipe the server clean with a cloth.
well  
Csonka : 9/28/2016 10:47 am : link
I don't know you so this may be totally off, but you say you've bounced around a bit. And you'd like to stay somewhere for 2-4 years to show stability ... as if that's a long time.
If you're having problems everywhere you go, it might not always be the other guy.
Just sayin'.
You can keep copies  
pjcas18 : 9/28/2016 10:47 am : link
of emails, but to what end?

Unless there is prejudice or some other type of illegal activity, there is nothing his boss is done that having email proof of will help him in any way that I'm familiar with. Am I overlooking something?

Maybe that's a good practice to begin with, but now you're advising him to go down a path with his manager, the person who has the most direct impact on his work life, that pits them as adversaries.

If after an ill-advised (by me at least) conversation he now follows it up with an email summarizing everything, unless the manager is just not very smart it will be obvious the employee is "making a case against him"

Why even introduce that, it only makes his job more of a hassle and things could get worse.

RE: Good guy at heart?  
Patrick77 : 9/28/2016 10:55 am : link
In comment 13146280 Chris in Philly said:
Quote:
This guy sounds like the worst kind of two-faced douchebag. Fuck him.


Not sure how blastin' the boss in the butt helps here... But it probably can't make the situation any worse.

The gun to work idea is good. Since I can't bring a gun to work I'm more of a shit on the boss's desk kind of guy.
Csonka  
CMicks3110 : 9/28/2016 10:57 am : link
i finished Grad school in '13, did a few contract jobs for a year here and there, finally found a full time gig in '14 and then they basically went out of business so that's why I bounced around nothing to do with issues with my supervisors
RE: Csonka  
pjcas18 : 9/28/2016 11:00 am : link
In comment 13146558 CMicks3110 said:
Quote:
i finished Grad school in '13, did a few contract jobs for a year here and there, finally found a full time gig in '14 and then they basically went out of business so that's why I bounced around nothing to do with issues with my supervisors


1 year stays are not really jumping around especially if you're in a tech related field where years are like dog years - 1 year = like 7 years and you have experienced a lot in that year, if you leave a place on bad terms or have gaps in your resume it looks bad, but staying somewhere a year and moving on is no longer thought of as "job hopping" like back in the day when you had GE or Pratt and Whitney lifers (for example).

don't fucking go to HR  
djm : 9/28/2016 11:11 am : link
..
RE: Something I always tell people who are not happy with their boss...  
Mr. Bungle : 9/28/2016 11:25 am : link
In comment 13146516 EricJ said:
Quote:
if your boss sucks that much then you will out last him/her.

That is absolutely not true, nowhere near reality.
cry baby....go back to work!!!!  
BCD : 9/28/2016 12:59 pm : link
cry cry cry....some people have real problems with their boss...
I  
blue42 : 9/28/2016 1:41 pm : link
worked recently for two dickheads like that...f'ed with me constantly. They're gone now....upper level MGT. observed their attitudes and decided it didn't fit what they needed. Bye.
just smile and nod  
spike : 9/28/2016 1:47 pm : link
and offer occasional suggestions. He probably thinks of you as his right hand man to bounce ideas off
i wouldn't say anything  
Les in TO : 9/28/2016 1:48 pm : link
but I would consistently continue to ask for informal feedback after completing a project, report etc
RE: just smile and nod  
steve in ky : 9/28/2016 1:50 pm : link
In comment 13146838 spike said:
Quote:
and offer occasional suggestions. He probably thinks of you as his right hand man to bounce ideas off


Probably not anymore
(just kidding)
RE: RE: Something I always tell people who are not happy with their boss...  
SHO'NUFF : 9/28/2016 8:23 pm : link
In comment 13146606 Mr. Bungle said:
Quote:
In comment 13146516 EricJ said:


Quote:


if your boss sucks that much then you will out last him/her.


That is absolutely not true, nowhere near reality.


+1000000

You probably just fucked up your relationship with your boss.
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