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NFT: Fantasy football league dilemma

giantsfan44ab : 9/28/2016 11:12 am
I wanted to make this thread it's own entity because it deals with a problem.

So essentially I got a trade vetoed this morning. The initial offer was Wilson, Sims and Blount for Miller and Booker(who he would've dropped anyways to make the deal work). He said he didn't want Wilson but he would do the deal if I bid on Siemien and gave Siemien to him instead. It didn't make sense to me, but fine, I bid $10 (out of $100) on Siemien to ensure I got him because he said he'd call the deal off temporarily if I didn't land Siemien. Fine.

So everyone wakes up, and it gets vetoed by like 8:30 am.

So the gist of my argument goes like this:

The rest of the league values Lamar higher than my friend does. They also value Blount and Sims much much lower than he does. I honestly don't think he's illogical either. He spent time looking into the offer. Even with Brady coming back and Sims being primarily in a time share, Blount finished 20th last year and Sims finished 22nd. Wilson finished as the #3 QB. So going off last year this doesn't seem egregious. The #3 QB, #20 RB and #22nd RB for the #5 RB. Going off this year makes even less sense. Lamar clearly doesn't look as he's gonna be as efficient as last year behind Houston's offensive line. Sims has scored as many point as Lamar so far. Blount is the #4 RB in my league right now. So it's the #4 RB, #22 RB and Wilson for the #20 RB.

I offered either Carr and Wilson. HE asked me to throw in Siemien INSTEAD of those 2. Am I in the wrong thinking that this veto is unfair?

Among one of the reasons the commissioner said it's unfair:

"This trade makes your team too strong"

Are you fucking me? So I can make a trade only if it makes my team worse??

I might actually find someone else to take my team in this league. I'm just about done. Or am I 100% out of my damn mind?
first off, outside of collusion  
giants#1 : 9/28/2016 11:18 am : link
vetoing trades is dumb.

But you are trading that trio and then making another trade with him for Siemien? Is he then dropping Wilson? Why wouldn't he just pick up Siemien himself?
No real comment on your post  
Young Elijah : 9/28/2016 11:20 am : link
but my general sentiment on trades is simple. If youre in a league with what you deem to be competent fantasy players - why is there a veto option? If there is money on the line and its structured a way that games/players always matter, who cares who trades what? Unless its deemed pure collusion and somehow identifiable, there should not be a veto option. If you need one, you probably need a new league.
The only..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 9/28/2016 11:21 am : link
time a trade should be vetoed is for blatant collusion. No other reason, including the fact that a good team gets stronger.
wouldn't the first trade  
Rocky369 : 9/28/2016 11:21 am : link
based only on acceptance of a second trade be the collusion aspect? does the league accept the trade after you pick up siemian and then redo the players involved?
How is the Simien part collusion?  
Young Elijah : 9/28/2016 11:26 am : link
The other party wants him to in essence throw in a UDFA in the form of having the poster spend his FA money instead of him. I think they could have structured it differently - traded for wilson prior to the pick up, did the pick up and traded the rest later - or something like that.

But I dont see it as collusion.

Collusion is- "Heres a suspended Josh Gordon for a 1 week injured Antonio brown- and when I win, Ill give your buy-in back"....in a keeper league where AB has a priceless value lol
I'm not saying it's a strong argument  
Rocky369 : 9/28/2016 11:28 am : link
just that the terms of the trade should be the terms of the trade. I'll bow out.
RE: How is the Simien part collusion?  
giantsfan44ab : 9/28/2016 11:29 am : link
In comment 13146608 Young Elijah said:
Quote:
The other party wants him to in essence throw in a UDFA in the form of having the poster spend his FA money instead of him. I think they could have structured it differently - traded for wilson prior to the pick up, did the pick up and traded the rest later - or something like that.

But I dont see it as collusion.

Collusion is- "Heres a suspended Josh Gordon for a 1 week injured Antonio brown- and when I win, Ill give your buy-in back"....in a keeper league where AB has a priceless value lol


I think he's saying if we did the trade again with Wilson instead of Siemien, that's colliding because we are telling the guy who wants Siemien that it's only fair if we do it with Wilson instead.
Tell them you want your $10 back  
Cruzin : 9/28/2016 11:32 am : link
in waiver wire money.

Post a picture of the newspaper kid on the BMX from "Better Off Dead" with the caption:

Gimme my $10!

That should intimidate them.
I would never play in a league...  
EricJ : 9/28/2016 11:39 am : link
with that kind of bullshit going on. People are really going to veto a trade? I can see guys teaming up to veto a trade just to screw someone so they do not improve their team. This is a money league too? assholes...

The only time I can see a trade getting denied is in this scenario...
Right before the trade deadline, one team that has no chance to make the playoffs trades top players to another team for virtually nothing. Then, there is obviously some monkey business going on there.

Who the fuck are these other owners in the league to decide what is good for you?
I never agreed with the veto option  
djm : 9/28/2016 11:43 am : link
unless the trade is ridiculous it should stand Some commishs are fucking out of their minds with the playing god thing.
RE: No real comment on your post  
ThatLimerickGuy : 9/28/2016 11:48 am : link
In comment 13146592 Young Elijah said:
Quote:
but my general sentiment on trades is simple. If youre in a league with what you deem to be competent fantasy players - why is there a veto option? If there is money on the line and its structured a way that games/players always matter, who cares who trades what? Unless its deemed pure collusion and somehow identifiable, there should not be a veto option. If you need one, you probably need a new league.


This is the right answer.

You need to find a group of guys or weed out the existing guys who don't understand that a veto is not warranted when they personally feel that one side is getting more value than the other.

YoungElijah is wise and understands that you can easily structure a league so that nobody ever gives up or wants to even think of combining teams. One easy way is to either set up a losers bracket or "toilet bowl" as we call it, where the non-playoff teams still compete for a prize, whether it be half league fee, choice of draft slot next year, etc.

If you or anyone else truly believes that people are colluding to combine teams then your first order of business is to start looking for new friends/ people to gamble with.
RE: RE: No real comment on your post  
ManningLobsItBurressAlone : 9/28/2016 11:51 am : link
In comment 13146646 ThatLimerickGuy said:
Quote:
In comment 13146592 Young Elijah said:


Quote:


but my general sentiment on trades is simple. If youre in a league with what you deem to be competent fantasy players - why is there a veto option? If there is money on the line and its structured a way that games/players always matter, who cares who trades what? Unless its deemed pure collusion and somehow identifiable, there should not be a veto option. If you need one, you probably need a new league.



This is the right answer.

You need to find a group of guys or weed out the existing guys who don't understand that a veto is not warranted when they personally feel that one side is getting more value than the other.

YoungElijah is wise and understands that you can easily structure a league so that nobody ever gives up or wants to even think of combining teams. One easy way is to either set up a losers bracket or "toilet bowl" as we call it, where the non-playoff teams still compete for a prize, whether it be half league fee, choice of draft slot next year, etc.

If you or anyone else truly believes that people are colluding to combine teams then your first order of business is to start looking for new friends/ people to gamble with.


Agreed. I have a league where if you finish in last place during the regular season you pay half the league entry fee back to the pot. Stops teams from becoming all out sellers.
RE: RE: No real comment on your post  
giantsfan44ab : 9/28/2016 11:55 am : link
In comment 13146646 ThatLimerickGuy said:
Quote:
In comment 13146592 Young Elijah said:


Quote:


but my general sentiment on trades is simple. If youre in a league with what you deem to be competent fantasy players - why is there a veto option? If there is money on the line and its structured a way that games/players always matter, who cares who trades what? Unless its deemed pure collusion and somehow identifiable, there should not be a veto option. If you need one, you probably need a new league.



This is the right answer.

You need to find a group of guys or weed out the existing guys who don't understand that a veto is not warranted when they personally feel that one side is getting more value than the other.

YoungElijah is wise and understands that you can easily structure a league so that nobody ever gives up or wants to even think of combining teams. One easy way is to either set up a losers bracket or "toilet bowl" as we call it, where the non-playoff teams still compete for a prize, whether it be half league fee, choice of draft slot next year, etc.

If you or anyone else truly believes that people are colluding to combine teams then your first order of business is to start looking for new friends/ people to gamble with.


Haha these guys are my friends and while I was slighted by them this morning I showed them this thread and stated my case and I think all of them are in agreement with me and apologized.

Thanks for the help guys. I thought I was crazy for second there.
No offense- but the fact that  
Young Elijah : 9/28/2016 12:00 pm : link
(presumably) adults, can be dissuaded from their previously unified stance by a thread of random forum posters does not in anyway make me think more highly of them lol. I think the fantasy football friend search should continue for you haha.
I have always said this  
robbieballs2003 : 9/28/2016 12:52 pm : link
A trade doesnt have to be fair. And how many trades work out the way you think they will. The only way a trade doesnt go through is if it is obvious dumping or giving up by one team. I structured our league so that every game means something and every week means something. Dumping only fucks that team over for the prior year for keepers and draft positioning.
Its a fair trade  
mdthedream : 9/28/2016 12:55 pm : link
no reason for veto. wilson and Blount for Miller.
the rest  
mdthedream : 9/28/2016 12:56 pm : link
of players are free agent types.
RE: No offense- but the fact that  
giantsfan44ab : 9/28/2016 1:12 pm : link
In comment 13146664 Young Elijah said:
Quote:
(presumably) adults, can be dissuaded from their previously unified stance by a thread of random forum posters does not in anyway make me think more highly of them lol. I think the fantasy football friend search should continue for you haha.


We are all a few months removed from undergrad (idk if that counts as adults haha).

So the trade vetoed earlier and my friend now says he didn't fully consider the ramifications of Brady's return on Blount's value so the deal might not happen.

I could care less though, I just went 1 against 8 people in an argument and got every single one of them to recant. Who says moral victories don't count?
Sorry to miller  
Mike in Long Beach : 9/28/2016 1:13 pm : link
But I hate starting fantasy football threads and just have one quick question if anyone can help (I'm new to this stuff).

If I have Edelman as my flex WR/RB this week, which I currently do, and he plays quarterback, will he rack up all the points for passing yards and touchdowns if he gets any?
RE: Sorry to miller  
bigbluehoya : 9/28/2016 1:32 pm : link
In comment 13146782 Mike in Long Beach said:
Quote:
But I hate starting fantasy football threads and just have one quick question if anyone can help (I'm new to this stuff).

If I have Edelman as my flex WR/RB this week, which I currently do, and he plays quarterback, will he rack up all the points for passing yards and touchdowns if he gets any?


I think it depends on the setup/rules of your league. If you use ESPN I believe the answer is yes, you will get all of the points (unless your commissioner adjusted the rules otherwise, which may not even be possible)
RE: RE: Sorry to miller  
VenteSette : 9/28/2016 1:49 pm : link
FWIW, I am in a basic ESPN league and it has some weird veto language. I made a trade with the commissioner and he was wondering why it didn't show up right away. He had no idea there could be a veto. Good thing. Without Ingram I would have lost.

We may have the issue later in the year since there is a husband and wife with teams. She is 1-2, he is 3-0, but I don't think they would try it.

In comment 13146812 bigbluehoya said:
Quote:
In comment 13146782 Mike in Long Beach said:


Quote:


But I hate starting fantasy football threads and just have one quick question if anyone can help (I'm new to this stuff).

If I have Edelman as my flex WR/RB this week, which I currently do, and he plays quarterback, will he rack up all the points for passing yards and touchdowns if he gets any?



I think it depends on the setup/rules of your league. If you use ESPN I believe the answer is yes, you will get all of the points (unless your commissioner adjusted the rules otherwise, which may not even be possible)


We had the same question in my league with ESPN and decided yes, they get all of the points. Not just Edelman, Pryor gets some snaps too.
A trade is fair in the eyes of both parties...  
EricJ : 9/28/2016 2:00 pm : link
one team could have 4 starting quality RBs for example but all shitty TE's. So, a guy like Melvin Gordon gets traded for Tyler Eifert.

On the surface it looks like the guy trading away Gordon is getting hosed but now his lineup is better because he already has two starting RBs but now has a much better TE than he had before.
Thanks for the comments  
Mike in Long Beach : 9/28/2016 2:12 pm : link
I'm in a Yahoo league so if anyone knows how Yahoo would handle that, please let me know!
RE: Thanks for the comments  
YAJ2112 : 9/28/2016 3:08 pm : link
In comment 13146888 Mike in Long Beach said:
Quote:
I'm in a Yahoo league so if anyone knows how Yahoo would handle that, please let me know!


Why don't you read your league rules? Or see how Pryor was scored last week?
I used to run into this with previous leagues I was in  
allstarjim : 9/28/2016 3:37 pm : link
So I created leagues, was the commish, and gave myself sole veto power. With that veto power, I explained to the league that I will hear any argument for a veto, but that the only reason a trade would be vetoed is if there is obvious collusion. Whether or not a team is made stronger would never be a consideration, even if my belief is that the trades are lopsided. I have approved trades where I thought there was a clear winner or loser, and thought, "why the heck would you make that trade?" If both parties believe it helps their team, that is all that is important. I've also found that the team that looked like the obvious winner in a deal often times turns out to be the big loser.

I would never be a part of a league that allows a league vote to disapprove a trade on their whim. It's wrong, particularly when there is money involved.
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