2-2 (1-1 division), 4th in competitive NFCE
I know we are all analyzing Eli's play and Beckham's behavior after the last 2 games, but what do we think big picture?
The win in Dallas was a quality win, but unfortunately the home loss to Washington cancelled it out. Nothing satisfies me more than road division wins, but nothing is more frustrating than home division losses.
I think the offense has been OK, the team has moved the ball well in the NO and WSH game but needs to clean up the red zone offense. I'd like them to clean up clock management at the end of the half.
The main thing is cleaning up turnovers and penalties, I do think the Giants can have a good year if they can play smarter football. Absolutely need to get this Beckham situation under control though.
I'd like to see them at 4-3 going into the bye, the schedule is pretty manageable after that.
Our defense is strong on the line, strong in the secondary, weak at linebacker. Unfortunately, our secondary is once again completely depleted. As a result, our defense struggles to get off the field. It's hard to get sacks and be a monstrous force when drives are sustained by first downs. Trevin Wade has been an aboslute nightmare. Penalties have been an absolute night mare.
Our D-line hasn't generated the sacks we've needed, but they have been stout and fine. They would look better with a healthy secondary that keeps other teams receivers in check and don't allow other teams to strike quickly. On top of that, our weak LB corps cannot make up for the
lacking coverage of the secondary.
I think it's a bit fluky that the Giants haven't created any turnovers, but part of that is how banged up the secondary is. Better safeties and corners will make better plays on the ball.
Then again, we have played the Skins and Saints in back to back weeks with depleted secondaries and they were able to effectively stop our passing game, so perhaps Spags isn't adjusting well?
Offense: We don't run the ball well or consistently, run-blocking is bad as always. Pass protection isn't yielding sacks, but they aren't giving Eli much time to throw whatsoever. We don't have a fullback on the roster to block, our backup RBs don't know blitz pickups, and our tight ends are poor blockers.
People are too quick to anoint our wide receivers. Beckham is a stud, Sheppard looks good thus far, but I'm still not sure that Cruz is the Pro-Bowl weapon that he was in 2011. His hands were in question before his injuries and he's displaying that now. Plus, he doesnly look like the elusive waterbug we were used to seeing.
Worse than that is that all the receivers are roughly the same size and are all shorter receivers. Eli can be a high-thrower, so not having big-bodied receivers, or reliable tight end catching options have made it really hard to sustain drives and move the chains when Eli is under quick duress.
---------
Overall, we are 2-2 and if our secondary gets healthy, our defense will look much more like a weapon.
Our offense has failed to score points, but there were a lot of stupid penalties and unfortunate drops that skew such a small sample size. Hopefully those normalize and the Giants get back on track.
While the Giants have legitimate flaws (run-blocking, tight end), there are still enough pieces for them to be a dangerous team.
2. Manning is healthy, Cruz, ODB and Shep are healthy.
3. If we go into the bye week 3-3, and healthy,
with 'Apples', (como 'cohones'), DRC and Darius Thomas healthy and ready to go, and with the schedule looking easier from there on out, that's not bad.
4. Certain areas are either improving or holding down the fort. OL not as bad as we feared, DL stopping the run.
------------------------
Big picture league wide?
QBs get the ball out super quickly, D Ends must be augmented aggressively by rushing interior gaps, I favor allowing DTs to attack interior gaps and using back 7 to adjust.
Same on the O side, teams attack gaps and use multiple D fronts, O must adjust to those, both in run and pass, there is always a way. We must do the work in the playbook.
I LIKE the instant quick-hit interior run plays, remember, not every team has Linval Joseph, don't give up on those, they can work and they help the OL get going.
Also, end runs give your Tackles a chance to smack DEs in the face, do more of those.
Eli will settle in and start feeding his options.
One more:
Teams seem to be keying on our routes, change the routes!
Except it's impossible to go into the bye week 3-3.
We are 2-2 with 3 games before the bye. Let's get to 4-3 going into the bye with games against Chicago, Cleveland, Detroit coming in the second half of the season.
They need to win their divisional games. Simple as that.
Here's the things that I'm pleased with:
The defense is heads and shoulders above last year.
- They are making hard stops at the line
- Thay are playing smarter up front
- The front seven are playing very disciplined football
- there are holes in the backfield right now because three starters and one key backup are out - and Trevon Wade is inconsistent and being picked on
- our linebackers are trying to pick up the slack for this and get exposed every once and a while
- there is every reason to believe the defense will improve when the starters (DRC, Apple, Thompson) and key backup (Berhe) return
The Offense is moving the ball pretty consistently
- they are getting good production
- the running game is much better than I thought it would be
- the o-line is much, much better than I thought it would be
- Jerry and Hart are much better than I thought they would be
On the bad side -
It is primarily the offensive line that is making mental errors at critical spots and killing drives - and this is what has made scoring hard
Before Vereen went out on IR - I thought he was being asked to do too many things -- he seemed much better to me as a third-down specialist last year
The TEs are inconsistent but have their moments
Harris has changed back to a special-teams player and less as a WR and may not be comfortable back in that role yet -- but he has the ability to do all that well -- I can forgive him a mental error
Beckham's emotional issues are affecting the team because he's taking himself out of the game -- it may not be all his fault -- but he is not on an island -- all star receivers get the treatment he gets -- he has to learn to perform despite it or he will continue to hurt the team
-- Lastly hats off to the Vikings - they are a very good team - I and mostly everyone on BBI had penciled this game in as a loss -- and the Vikings played better than the Giants
-- also the Skins game was not an anomaly -- the Skins are flawed but they have a lot of good pieces in place and Gruden is a good coach who is getting good support from his FO right now
-- The Eagles and the Cowboys are going to be tough games for the Giants coming up if they start firing on all cylinders -- but One good game could solve a lot of their problems right now
I am looking to Green Bay as having the potential to be that kind of game -- McAdoo knows that venue and team well and I think these two teams are pretty evenly matched!!!
Go Giants!!!!
It still can't convert 3rd and short on the ground when it needs to......the receivers are not getting open....when you have to use new guys like Rainey and Perkins, mistakes are bound to happen.....
And I am disappointed in Eli......I am not liking the happy feet, which can happen at key points in any game.....
As for the play calling, Papa mentioned that teams seem to know the Giant patterns......that was the complaint against Gilbride......has Mac's offense become stale/predictable already?
I didn't understand the play calling of continually running towards Joseph......2-12 and 0-2 on third and fourth down, just does not cut it....this team is 27th in scoring.....our QB has one td in the last three games.....
It's like somehow, miraculously, Flowers is not going to be in motion, Eli is not going to throw an int, someone is not going to fumble, etc. It doesn't stop happening, until it stops happening......
As for turnovers by the defense, those will eventually come.....there have been fumbles we have not recovered......there have been tipped passes that we have not come up with......but what is alarming is that there have been practically no attempts at interceptions......is our coverage that bad? To not even have an opportunity to make an int is hard to believe....
Unprepared: They couldn't get lined up in many instances Monday night. Eli was seemingly having mini-huddles before every other play, getting guys lined up. How many illegal formations have we seen so far?
Undisciplined: Are we leading the league in penalties this year? We've got to be close.
Unable to rush the passer: 32nd in the league in sacks. We didn't get a finger on Bradford Monday night despite facing two back up OT's.
Unhinged: Beckham, need I say more?
Unable to generate turnovers: 30th in the league. We have one fumble recovery and 0 INT's (worst in the NFL) through 4 games.
Unable to get the ball in the hands of our playmakers: See Monday night with all the dinks and dunks to our back up RB's and TE's.
Unable to stay healthy at certain positions: Secondary and RB's are already decimated.
Which of those "uns" did I get wrong?
They have not been penalized for more than a handful of illegal formations - and those penalties were either the fault of the TE or WR as opposed to the line -- and considering Cruz hasn;t played in a while and is a bit rusty - I give him a pass -- was there an illegal formation penalty Monday night -- I don't remember one -- there were some false starts and holding penalties
They were in a tough venue Monday night and Eli kept trying to change plays in a very loud stadium with some new staff and a rookie working with him -- Jennings and Vereen out - Darkwa, Rainey and Perkins in
yes this is true -- I identified the offensive line above as the primary culprits here - and it does have to be cleaned up -- but I think the rest of the team is pretty sound that way
If I told you before week 1 that we'd be playing Minny in week 4 without their starting QB, without Adrian Peterson, and without both of their starting offensive tackles... You'd really unquestionably mark that as a loss?
Likely the latter given that there are JAGs all over this team and the best defensive player (DRC) and biggest pleasant surprise of the offseason (Apple) going down have killed them. Not a stretch to say just one of them playing vs Minny in place of Wade allows NY to win.
The drafting had been better. One more year of hitting on players should reenergize what seems like a middle of the road team. I still see 8-8.
But my offensive concern is more than just Monday night. We have not been scoring, and this is not the offense I remember from last year, despite adding new weapons in Sheppard and Cruz.
If I told you before week 1 that we'd be playing Minny in week 4 without their starting QB, without Adrian Peterson, and without both of their starting offensive tackles... You'd really unquestionably mark that as a loss?
there is not a big difference between Bradford and Bridgewater - the Vikings don't rely on their offense -- they are a strong defensive team with a streaky offense
Yes - the Giants are improved -- but it is a lot to ask to see them challenge the Vikings right now
But my offensive concern is more than just Monday night. We have not been scoring, and this is not the offense I remember from last year, despite adding new weapons in Sheppard and Cruz.
The offense last year -- could not take over a game and run the football -- this year - they are pounding the rock -- this is going to reap enormous benefits as the season progresses
There's a lot to look forward to with this team once you get past critiquing everything under the sun and realize its football, bad games happen, teams go on runs, and things can click on any given week.
I'll be hiding behind my sofa when that game rolls around.
All thru Camp we heard that our No 1 is covering like a blanket and our No 2 is running every route and catching every pass. The new Safety, LB and RB are going to be good players, it's obvious to all who see them. The Pre-Season Games were just scrimmages and the offense is just vanilla and the defense is just not showing it's hand yet.
And then the Season starts and there's the ritual bed-shitting game against the Redskins, a Team they should have buried in the standings in September. Then comes the yearly avalanche of injuries at a single position -- surprise surprise it's the Safeties again this year. The Diva WR is starting to act like Terrell Owens, and the DL is not reminding anyone of the ol' Nascar Package just yet.
The Schedule doesn't look so easy now with games in Green Bay and then in London. The Division part of the schedule still looms large. The most galling aspect of this whole season is the way the Eagles and the Cowboys are just pulling wins out of their orifices.
If this season starts to circle the drain.....I'm not sure Ben Mac has the juice to pull the team together.
McAdoo has a lot of work to do - the team is playing risky/sloppy football and his clock management has not been any better than coughlin's last year. he needs to be more hands on managing beckham, rather than just lecturing.
our run defense has been good Jenkins has earned every penny of his contract.
the offensive line, expected to be a weak spot, has actually held up pretty well.
stay healthy, take care of the small details and we have enough talent to compete in every game.
The Vikes game was very winnable if we played clean.
The good news is this roster has a ton of talent compared to last year and can make some noise if they get healthy and clean up their game.
Passing Game in Three of four games has been stopped only by itself. The Giants scored quickly and easily in Dallas and lit up the Skins and Saints with only drops and asinine penalties hurting the final score. Team should be 3 - 1 if not for errors. Vikes shut down the passing game, but that is the NFC's best D and perhaps best team overall. That said O functioned enough to cut it to 17 - 10 before the D failed. Would have been 10 - 10 all if not for Harris.
Running game seems better as well, though it is always in flux as no two RB's can nail down the job. Hopefully Darkwa can and Perkins had a big play on Monday. Giants had almost zero rushing TD's last year, but have ran for multiple scores in the red zone his year, including Darkwa against the NFC's best D on Monday night, made it a one score game.
Giants still field two TE's who I do not think would get any burn on other rosters. This will likely never change.
Specials has been hit and miss. Should have been possible game sealing FG and Punt blocks in consecutive weeks if not ruined by penalty. Harris has had some good returns, but shit the bed with the muff on Monday. Wing has stepped it up last two weeks. Brown does not fill me with confidence.
So far, seems like a 8 -8 squad. Catch some breaks can win ten games.
The Defense is 6th LAST in total yards given up.
So....basically nothing has changed. In preseason the defense was flying all over the field. You could sense this year was going to be different. Then Washington came and now the Vikings. No pressure, hardly any QB hits, practically no sacks to speak of, and the worst team in the NFL with 0 takeaways from the Defense. Spags better turn this around because the players on this year's defense is way better than last year's debacle. Where is Odi and Wynn to give JPP and Vernon a breather? I understand the Vikings game because of the injuries to secondary but even still, the run defense should have been better. Robinson got beat out in training camp and preseason but he is getting a ton of playing time. Why? I'm thoroughly confused. The few times they got to Bradford, people were open but he overthrew them because he can't and never has been able to deal with pressure. Should have been a bigger part of the gameplan.
Quote:
Well when does that stop being and excuse? Are you telling me no other teams with injuries are able to overcome?
Sure does suck for Minnesota losing their starting Quarterback and Adrian Peterson, as well as both starting offensive tackles already.... [/quote]
Except that their loss of QB is seen by most as an upgrade, not a downgrade. Agree about Tackles being out though. Vernon not worth money so far. Plain and simple.
Maybe because they have Eli Manning, possibly the best trio of WR's in the game and on paper, an above average D Line and above average Corners. That should be enough to win the division.
Agree 100%
Quote:
from a team with 9 new starters, a new rookie HC, no TE, questionable holdover coordinators forced on the rookie HC. Too many moving parts have to mesh together.
Maybe because they have Eli Manning, possibly the best trio of WR's in the game and on paper, an above average D Line and above average Corners. That should be enough to win the division.
key word being "new". 1 WR a rookie, 1 didn't play for 2 years. I said repeatedly, the talent on DL, inthe 2ndary is clearly upgraded, but again, new people who need t learn new playbook and to play together cohesively. A lot to achieve ina short period of time, especially witht he new limited training camp.
Offense - 16th,
Defence - 16th,
On DVOA efficiency.
About as average as you can get.
Link - ( New Window )
4 games in, I have some doubt about some of these individuals.
I also for keeping TC, but we know the story there...
in the inability to cover RB's and TE's...
in the penalties that happen at inopportune times.....
in the lack of defensive turnovers....
in Eli's performance thus far...
in the lack of depth of this team...
in the turnovers the offense has coughed up.....
We can say we should have won, one more game...we can also say we could have lost one more game....
This is still an inconsistent team....until we overcome this, we are just a middle of the pack team....
Offense is very mistake prone.
Eli looks very shaky
Offense looks too predictable
Worse team in our division
OBJ drama needs to stop- distraction
McAdoo needs to instill discipline or things will unravel
Can't tell about McAdoo. The Washington loss was a killer. We had the chance to stomp out a division rival at home and make this a three team race for the division and we completely crapped the bed. This team goes nowhere until we win games like that. In fact, if we had won Washington, we're probably all feeling pretty good about 3-1 loss to a solid Minny team.
So, too soon to tell...
Defense can be good, but will never be great unless we find a serious pass rush. Games 1, 2, and even 3 had some excuses, but game 4 had no excuse. Facing backup tackles on both sides of the line and an immobile QB, the DL failed to generate any kind of consistent pressure.
Questions remain about the HC. So far, the hallmark of the 2016 NYG is poor quality control, especially on the offensive side of the ball. One has to wonder if BM can get the team to play disciplined ball. It's one thing to teach the fundamentals, and another to get the team to deliver on game day.
Coach Coughlin's strategy worked well - call it a 7 year plan. Start with a fresh team and be a taskmaster. Stress attention to detail and be hated by the players. After a couple of years, soften just a little to gain their respect. Be careful not to soften too much or execution will suffer over the long term.
This strategy was taught to me by a master teacher, who said "never let them see you smile before Thanksgiving". After that - offer just the slightest smile - a small sign of approval goes such a long way. I don't take this approach personally in the classroom, but it sounds like maybe how Coach Belichick runs things in N.E., and like what Coughlin tried to do in NY, although he probably softened a bit too much (IMO the injuries really did him in, but the softening led to a lot of inconsistent play).
- a lot that needs improvement
- a lot of dinged players that need to heal
Absolutely.
I don't miss the Coughlin era Blow out games where we would show up and be done by the third qtr.
Mac is using a conservative game plan but he is keeping us in game and winning close ones. He understands the teams weaknesses and is compensating.
Defense
Spags needs to get more out of the talent he has(creat a push in the middle) and a guy like Wade should have never made the team. All teams have injuries and the DC usually compensates for it. I saw none of that Monday or even against the Skin.
The loss to Washington at the Meadowlands.
The Cowboys with a rookie QB almost won.
The Vikings missing their all-pro running back and starting QB,
made the defense look horrible.
Defense and Eli's poor History against a Mike Zimmer
led Defensive Head Coach .
The One Guy that Hurt us the Most and changed the complexity
of the Game is the last guy I would have thought. b\
But I am glad that Harris is not being used in the offense
he is Our best Special Teams Player outside of Brad Wing.
I hope they open up the offense and get King and Lewis
into the Mix more .
Vareen wasn't brought here to handle a lot of carries
not surprising he got hurt . Rainey can be effective
enough as he learns the offense better .
Nice to see Perkins on the field the fact that the game
ended on his blitz pickup so he need's to get better at
that or he won't be used as much as we would like .
I am over the Vikings game (fuck the refs) .
WE will bounce back and beat GB . We should have DRC back
Thompson needs to get healthy as does Apple who I think
might be back this week as well .
We can go into the Bye 6-2 with a chance to get healthy
and an extra week for Mac to iron out some wrinkles .
Two things Jpp Owa Okwara need to start getting home
to the QB . Its doable I'm gonna remain optimistic .
Nobody will give us a chance this week rightfully so
But I Eli is gonna wake up and OBJ is over due he is
too good not to have even sniffed the endzone .
Can it really get worse?
The NFL is a week to week league. Lot of season left.
Maybe it's the injuries to the secondary and to the running backs (or maybe I'm just depressed by the losses), but for whatever reason I'm not nearly as hopeful (or excited) as I was earlier.
I'm thinking 2-2 sounds about right for every four game stretch the rest of the way - ending at 8-8 and left watching Philly and Dallas show off their shiny new QBs in the playoffs (oh, and bye bye Romo).
despite everything our division foes have to overcome, we are the most handicapped: you just can't overcome stupid.