2-2 (1-1 division), 4th in competitive NFCE
I know we are all analyzing Eli's play and Beckham's behavior after the last 2 games, but what do we think big picture?
The win in Dallas was a quality win, but unfortunately the home loss to Washington cancelled it out. Nothing satisfies me more than road division wins, but nothing is more frustrating than home division losses.
I think the offense has been OK, the team has moved the ball well in the NO and WSH game but needs to clean up the red zone offense. I'd like them to clean up clock management at the end of the half.
The main thing is cleaning up turnovers and penalties, I do think the Giants can have a good year if they can play smarter football. Absolutely need to get this Beckham situation under control though.
I'd like to see them at 4-3 going into the bye, the schedule is pretty manageable after that.
At 3-1 and 2-0 in the division the outlook in both the media and among fans would be so much better. They let a golden opportunity slip away.
The giants play a lot of average-bad defenses this year. The offense will get going.
-Unprepared
-Undisciplined
-Unable to rush the passer despite spending 100 million plus on pass rushers
-Unhinged in some instances.
-Unable to generate turnovers
-Unable to get the ball in the hands of our playmakers whether it be through poor execution or poor gameplan.
-Unable to stay relatively healthy at certain positions
And that's just on the field. Off the field:
-Unable to draft or sign a playmaking Linebacker
-Unable to draft or sign a competent tight end
I think this can be a pretty good team but we HAVE to stop making so many mistakes. We are killing ourselves. The loss to the Redskins was really unforgivable.. we handed them that game. I can swallow losing to Minnesota on the road... they have a great defense. Newton and Rodgers didn't fare any better against them. You tip your cap and move on.
McAdoo has to get this team to play more disciplined football or else it's going to be a very tough and frustrating season. It would also be nice if we could stop getting clustered injuries at specific positions. We need DRC and Apple back badly.
I will add, though, that DRC and Eli Apple both went out at the same juncture in the Skins game I believe, and since then the defense has struggled. Injuries are a factor. But, the pass rush just seems to lack that spark and speed off the snap IMO.
Offensively, just sloppy play with turnover and penalties.
The team has no real identity yet.
I've been saying it for years, now... This league is designed for teams to go from worst to first in a single season.
We seem to be one of the only teams incapable of doing it. We've been "rebuilding" now since 2012.
Meanwhile, the Eagles have done it twice. Once after Andy Reid, when Chip Kelly took that 4-12 team and won the division the following year, and now they're undefeated with Doug Pederson and a rookie QB.
That being said, here are my quick hits:
1. Eli has not been unleashed nor has he been his very best. The best is YET to COME and it will. Offensive game planning limited due to personnel.
2. Losing TE / FB Will Johnson hurt our short-yardage, goal line and special teams BADLY. He was the one guy we had that could block and was superb on specials. Specials have cost us the last two weeks though Will wouldn't have obviously fixed it all.
3. Secondary injuries caught up to us. We beat MN if DRC, Thompson and Eli Apple are healthy as we'd have negated their passing game for sure.
We need to get healthy and stay healthy these next few weeks and just WIN. I think we'll go to GreenBay hungry and rip that defense apart.
Giants 3-2, getting healthy, getting in sync, and OBJ rings it in and keeps quiet"er"
Quote:We seem to be one of the only teams incapable of doing it. We've been "rebuilding" now since 2012.
This is revisionist history. Just where have we been, injury-wise, since 2012. Dead last 2013, 2014, 2015. Pretty hard to rebuild when a significant portion of your team is on IR. Any of those teams could have been playoff teams if healthy.
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said it on another thread but both teams from the 2015 NFC Championship are 1-3. This league has ebbs and flows and we just need to focus and prepare more. Plenty of blame here or there, but there's a good amount of highlights too. This defense was awesome before the big blows to the secondary.
I've been saying it for years, now... This league is designed for teams to go from worst to first in a single season.
We seem to be one of the only teams incapable of doing it. We've been "rebuilding" now since 2012.
Meanwhile, the Eagles have done it twice. Once after Andy Reid, when Chip Kelly took that 4-12 team and won the division the following year, and now they're undefeated with Doug Pederson and a rookie QB.
It is, to an extent. Good teams generally stay good when they have a good defense and playmakers on offense. The Panthers and Cardinals are having a really rough start but neither team lost a huge amount of talent, they are just in a funk. And Carolina got their #1 WR back, and their offense looks abysmal.
Point being, there's better teams than the Giants struggling, which means we aren't too far off from being a good team.
They are about what I expected to this point. A work in progress. I never for one second bought into the 10-11 win and playoffs hype.
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In comment 13158822 UConn4523 said:
Quote:We seem to be one of the only teams incapable of doing it. We've been "rebuilding" now since 2012.
This is revisionist history. Just where have we been, injury-wise, since 2012. Dead last 2013, 2014, 2015. Pretty hard to rebuild when a significant portion of your team is on IR. Any of those teams could have been playoff teams if healthy.
Yeah? Well what's new? Looks like we're trying to go for five in a row.
Hopefully starters in secondary come back on line soon as the dropoff is too big to overcome and expect to beat better teams.
And my word, have got to get the pass rush going otherwise we may not force a turnover all year...
-Unprepared
-Undisciplined
-Unable to rush the passer despite spending 100 million plus on pass rushers
-Unhinged in some instances.
-Unable to generate turnovers
-Unable to get the ball in the hands of our playmakers whether it be through poor execution or poor gameplan.
-Unable to stay relatively healthy at certain positions
And that's just on the field. Off the field:
-Unable to draft or sign a playmaking Linebacker
-Unable to draft or sign a competent tight end
+!. The good news is that there are still twelve games left.
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but to me the team looks...
-Unprepared
-Undisciplined
-Unable to rush the passer despite spending 100 million plus on pass rushers
-Unhinged in some instances.
-Unable to generate turnovers
-Unable to get the ball in the hands of our playmakers whether it be through poor execution or poor gameplan.
-Unable to stay relatively healthy at certain positions
And that's just on the field. Off the field:
-Unable to draft or sign a playmaking Linebacker
-Unable to draft or sign a competent tight end
+!. The good news is that there are still twelve games left.
HAHA. Meant +1.
2. Manning is healthy, Cruz, ODB and Shep are healthy.
3. If we go into the bye week 3-3, and healthy,
with 'Apples', (como 'cohones'), DRC and Darius Thomas healthy and ready to go, and with the schedule looking easier from there on out, that's not bad.
4. Certain areas are either improving or holding down the fort. OL not as bad as we feared, DL stopping the run.
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Big picture league wide?
QBs get the ball out super quickly, D Ends must be augmented aggressively by rushing interior gaps, I favor allowing DTs to attack interior gaps and using back 7 to adjust.
Same on the O side, teams attack gaps and use multiple D fronts, O must adjust to those, both in run and pass, there is always a way. We must do the work in the playbook.
I LIKE the instant quick-hit interior run plays, remember, not every team has Linval Joseph, don't give up on those, they can work and they help the OL get going.
Also, end runs give your Tackles a chance to smack DEs in the face, do more of those.
Eli will settle in and start feeding his options.
One more:
Teams seem to be keying on our routes, change the routes!
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In comment 13158829 Britt in VA said:
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In comment 13158822 UConn4523 said:
Quote:We seem to be one of the only teams incapable of doing it. We've been "rebuilding" now since 2012.
This is revisionist history. Just where have we been, injury-wise, since 2012. Dead last 2013, 2014, 2015. Pretty hard to rebuild when a significant portion of your team is on IR. Any of those teams could have been playoff teams if healthy.
Yeah? Well what's new? Looks like we're trying to go for five in a row.
My point exactly.
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In comment 13158845 BillT said:
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In comment 13158829 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
In comment 13158822 UConn4523 said:
Quote:We seem to be one of the only teams incapable of doing it. We've been "rebuilding" now since 2012.
This is revisionist history. Just where have we been, injury-wise, since 2012. Dead last 2013, 2014, 2015. Pretty hard to rebuild when a significant portion of your team is on IR. Any of those teams could have been playoff teams if healthy.
Yeah? Well what's new? Looks like we're trying to go for five in a row.
My point exactly.
Well when does that stop being and excuse? Are you telling me no other teams with injuries are able to overcome?
Sure does suck for Minnesota losing their starting Quarterback and Adrian Peterson, as well as both starting offensive tackles already....
Our defense is strong on the line, strong in the secondary, weak at linebacker. Unfortunately, our secondary is once again completely depleted. As a result, our defense struggles to get off the field. It's hard to get sacks and be a monstrous force when drives are sustained by first downs. Trevin Wade has been an aboslute nightmare. Penalties have been an absolute night mare.
Our D-line hasn't generated the sacks we've needed, but they have been stout and fine. They would look better with a healthy secondary that keeps other teams receivers in check and don't allow other teams to strike quickly. On top of that, our weak LB corps cannot make up for the
lacking coverage of the secondary.
I think it's a bit fluky that the Giants haven't created any turnovers, but part of that is how banged up the secondary is. Better safeties and corners will make better plays on the ball.
Then again, we have played the Skins and Saints in back to back weeks with depleted secondaries and they were able to effectively stop our passing game, so perhaps Spags isn't adjusting well?
Offense: We don't run the ball well or consistently, run-blocking is bad as always. Pass protection isn't yielding sacks, but they aren't giving Eli much time to throw whatsoever. We don't have a fullback on the roster to block, our backup RBs don't know blitz pickups, and our tight ends are poor blockers.
People are too quick to anoint our wide receivers. Beckham is a stud, Sheppard looks good thus far, but I'm still not sure that Cruz is the Pro-Bowl weapon that he was in 2011. His hands were in question before his injuries and he's displaying that now. Plus, he doesnly look like the elusive waterbug we were used to seeing.
Worse than that is that all the receivers are roughly the same size and are all shorter receivers. Eli can be a high-thrower, so not having big-bodied receivers, or reliable tight end catching options have made it really hard to sustain drives and move the chains when Eli is under quick duress.
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Overall, we are 2-2 and if our secondary gets healthy, our defense will look much more like a weapon.
Our offense has failed to score points, but there were a lot of stupid penalties and unfortunate drops that skew such a small sample size. Hopefully those normalize and the Giants get back on track.
While the Giants have legitimate flaws (run-blocking, tight end), there are still enough pieces for them to be a dangerous team.
2. Manning is healthy, Cruz, ODB and Shep are healthy.
3. If we go into the bye week 3-3, and healthy,
with 'Apples', (como 'cohones'), DRC and Darius Thomas healthy and ready to go, and with the schedule looking easier from there on out, that's not bad.
4. Certain areas are either improving or holding down the fort. OL not as bad as we feared, DL stopping the run.
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Big picture league wide?
QBs get the ball out super quickly, D Ends must be augmented aggressively by rushing interior gaps, I favor allowing DTs to attack interior gaps and using back 7 to adjust.
Same on the O side, teams attack gaps and use multiple D fronts, O must adjust to those, both in run and pass, there is always a way. We must do the work in the playbook.
I LIKE the instant quick-hit interior run plays, remember, not every team has Linval Joseph, don't give up on those, they can work and they help the OL get going.
Also, end runs give your Tackles a chance to smack DEs in the face, do more of those.
Eli will settle in and start feeding his options.
One more:
Teams seem to be keying on our routes, change the routes!
Except it's impossible to go into the bye week 3-3.
We are 2-2 with 3 games before the bye. Let's get to 4-3 going into the bye with games against Chicago, Cleveland, Detroit coming in the second half of the season.
They need to win their divisional games. Simple as that.
Here's the things that I'm pleased with:
The defense is heads and shoulders above last year.
- They are making hard stops at the line
- Thay are playing smarter up front
- The front seven are playing very disciplined football
- there are holes in the backfield right now because three starters and one key backup are out - and Trevon Wade is inconsistent and being picked on
- our linebackers are trying to pick up the slack for this and get exposed every once and a while
- there is every reason to believe the defense will improve when the starters (DRC, Apple, Thompson) and key backup (Berhe) return
The Offense is moving the ball pretty consistently
- they are getting good production
- the running game is much better than I thought it would be
- the o-line is much, much better than I thought it would be
- Jerry and Hart are much better than I thought they would be
On the bad side -
It is primarily the offensive line that is making mental errors at critical spots and killing drives - and this is what has made scoring hard
Before Vereen went out on IR - I thought he was being asked to do too many things -- he seemed much better to me as a third-down specialist last year
The TEs are inconsistent but have their moments
Harris has changed back to a special-teams player and less as a WR and may not be comfortable back in that role yet -- but he has the ability to do all that well -- I can forgive him a mental error
Beckham's emotional issues are affecting the team because he's taking himself out of the game -- it may not be all his fault -- but he is not on an island -- all star receivers get the treatment he gets -- he has to learn to perform despite it or he will continue to hurt the team
-- Lastly hats off to the Vikings - they are a very good team - I and mostly everyone on BBI had penciled this game in as a loss -- and the Vikings played better than the Giants
-- also the Skins game was not an anomaly -- the Skins are flawed but they have a lot of good pieces in place and Gruden is a good coach who is getting good support from his FO right now
-- The Eagles and the Cowboys are going to be tough games for the Giants coming up if they start firing on all cylinders -- but One good game could solve a lot of their problems right now
I am looking to Green Bay as having the potential to be that kind of game -- McAdoo knows that venue and team well and I think these two teams are pretty evenly matched!!!
Go Giants!!!!
It still can't convert 3rd and short on the ground when it needs to......the receivers are not getting open....when you have to use new guys like Rainey and Perkins, mistakes are bound to happen.....
And I am disappointed in Eli......I am not liking the happy feet, which can happen at key points in any game.....
As for the play calling, Papa mentioned that teams seem to know the Giant patterns......that was the complaint against Gilbride......has Mac's offense become stale/predictable already?
I didn't understand the play calling of continually running towards Joseph......2-12 and 0-2 on third and fourth down, just does not cut it....this team is 27th in scoring.....our QB has one td in the last three games.....
It's like somehow, miraculously, Flowers is not going to be in motion, Eli is not going to throw an int, someone is not going to fumble, etc. It doesn't stop happening, until it stops happening......
As for turnovers by the defense, those will eventually come.....there have been fumbles we have not recovered......there have been tipped passes that we have not come up with......but what is alarming is that there have been practically no attempts at interceptions......is our coverage that bad? To not even have an opportunity to make an int is hard to believe....
Unprepared: They couldn't get lined up in many instances Monday night. Eli was seemingly having mini-huddles before every other play, getting guys lined up. How many illegal formations have we seen so far?
Undisciplined: Are we leading the league in penalties this year? We've got to be close.
Unable to rush the passer: 32nd in the league in sacks. We didn't get a finger on Bradford Monday night despite facing two back up OT's.
Unhinged: Beckham, need I say more?
Unable to generate turnovers: 30th in the league. We have one fumble recovery and 0 INT's (worst in the NFL) through 4 games.
Unable to get the ball in the hands of our playmakers: See Monday night with all the dinks and dunks to our back up RB's and TE's.
Unable to stay healthy at certain positions: Secondary and RB's are already decimated.
Which of those "uns" did I get wrong?
They have not been penalized for more than a handful of illegal formations - and those penalties were either the fault of the TE or WR as opposed to the line -- and considering Cruz hasn;t played in a while and is a bit rusty - I give him a pass -- was there an illegal formation penalty Monday night -- I don't remember one -- there were some false starts and holding penalties
They were in a tough venue Monday night and Eli kept trying to change plays in a very loud stadium with some new staff and a rookie working with him -- Jennings and Vereen out - Darkwa, Rainey and Perkins in
yes this is true -- I identified the offensive line above as the primary culprits here - and it does have to be cleaned up -- but I think the rest of the team is pretty sound that way
If I told you before week 1 that we'd be playing Minny in week 4 without their starting QB, without Adrian Peterson, and without both of their starting offensive tackles... You'd really unquestionably mark that as a loss?
Likely the latter given that there are JAGs all over this team and the best defensive player (DRC) and biggest pleasant surprise of the offseason (Apple) going down have killed them. Not a stretch to say just one of them playing vs Minny in place of Wade allows NY to win.
The drafting had been better. One more year of hitting on players should reenergize what seems like a middle of the road team. I still see 8-8.
But my offensive concern is more than just Monday night. We have not been scoring, and this is not the offense I remember from last year, despite adding new weapons in Sheppard and Cruz.
If I told you before week 1 that we'd be playing Minny in week 4 without their starting QB, without Adrian Peterson, and without both of their starting offensive tackles... You'd really unquestionably mark that as a loss?
there is not a big difference between Bradford and Bridgewater - the Vikings don't rely on their offense -- they are a strong defensive team with a streaky offense
Yes - the Giants are improved -- but it is a lot to ask to see them challenge the Vikings right now
But my offensive concern is more than just Monday night. We have not been scoring, and this is not the offense I remember from last year, despite adding new weapons in Sheppard and Cruz.
The offense last year -- could not take over a game and run the football -- this year - they are pounding the rock -- this is going to reap enormous benefits as the season progresses
There's a lot to look forward to with this team once you get past critiquing everything under the sun and realize its football, bad games happen, teams go on runs, and things can click on any given week.
I'll be hiding behind my sofa when that game rolls around.
All thru Camp we heard that our No 1 is covering like a blanket and our No 2 is running every route and catching every pass. The new Safety, LB and RB are going to be good players, it's obvious to all who see them. The Pre-Season Games were just scrimmages and the offense is just vanilla and the defense is just not showing it's hand yet.
And then the Season starts and there's the ritual bed-shitting game against the Redskins, a Team they should have buried in the standings in September. Then comes the yearly avalanche of injuries at a single position -- surprise surprise it's the Safeties again this year. The Diva WR is starting to act like Terrell Owens, and the DL is not reminding anyone of the ol' Nascar Package just yet.
The Schedule doesn't look so easy now with games in Green Bay and then in London. The Division part of the schedule still looms large. The most galling aspect of this whole season is the way the Eagles and the Cowboys are just pulling wins out of their orifices.
If this season starts to circle the drain.....I'm not sure Ben Mac has the juice to pull the team together.
McAdoo has a lot of work to do - the team is playing risky/sloppy football and his clock management has not been any better than coughlin's last year. he needs to be more hands on managing beckham, rather than just lecturing.
our run defense has been good Jenkins has earned every penny of his contract.
the offensive line, expected to be a weak spot, has actually held up pretty well.
stay healthy, take care of the small details and we have enough talent to compete in every game.
The Vikes game was very winnable if we played clean.
The good news is this roster has a ton of talent compared to last year and can make some noise if they get healthy and clean up their game.
Passing Game in Three of four games has been stopped only by itself. The Giants scored quickly and easily in Dallas and lit up the Skins and Saints with only drops and asinine penalties hurting the final score. Team should be 3 - 1 if not for errors. Vikes shut down the passing game, but that is the NFC's best D and perhaps best team overall. That said O functioned enough to cut it to 17 - 10 before the D failed. Would have been 10 - 10 all if not for Harris.
Running game seems better as well, though it is always in flux as no two RB's can nail down the job. Hopefully Darkwa can and Perkins had a big play on Monday. Giants had almost zero rushing TD's last year, but have ran for multiple scores in the red zone his year, including Darkwa against the NFC's best D on Monday night, made it a one score game.
Giants still field two TE's who I do not think would get any burn on other rosters. This will likely never change.
Specials has been hit and miss. Should have been possible game sealing FG and Punt blocks in consecutive weeks if not ruined by penalty. Harris has had some good returns, but shit the bed with the muff on Monday. Wing has stepped it up last two weeks. Brown does not fill me with confidence.
So far, seems like a 8 -8 squad. Catch some breaks can win ten games.
The Defense is 6th LAST in total yards given up.
So....basically nothing has changed. In preseason the defense was flying all over the field. You could sense this year was going to be different. Then Washington came and now the Vikings. No pressure, hardly any QB hits, practically no sacks to speak of, and the worst team in the NFL with 0 takeaways from the Defense. Spags better turn this around because the players on this year's defense is way better than last year's debacle. Where is Odi and Wynn to give JPP and Vernon a breather? I understand the Vikings game because of the injuries to secondary but even still, the run defense should have been better. Robinson got beat out in training camp and preseason but he is getting a ton of playing time. Why? I'm thoroughly confused. The few times they got to Bradford, people were open but he overthrew them because he can't and never has been able to deal with pressure. Should have been a bigger part of the gameplan.
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Well when does that stop being and excuse? Are you telling me no other teams with injuries are able to overcome?
Sure does suck for Minnesota losing their starting Quarterback and Adrian Peterson, as well as both starting offensive tackles already.... [/quote]
Except that their loss of QB is seen by most as an upgrade, not a downgrade. Agree about Tackles being out though. Vernon not worth money so far. Plain and simple.
Maybe because they have Eli Manning, possibly the best trio of WR's in the game and on paper, an above average D Line and above average Corners. That should be enough to win the division.
Agree 100%