with no good receivers after Beckham, Eli threw for 4,432 yards (6th in the league) and 35 touchdowns (tied for 2nd in the league), at a 62.6% completion percentage.
Man what a bullshit article. Eli has been horrendous the past 2 weeks. Why does he have to manufacture bullshit going back 4 years to try to prove his point? That was one of the poorest, most lazy anti-Eli articles i've ever seen and that's saying alot.
5 TD's against NO and another 4 or 5 against Caroline... lots of yards... but 2 big losses. Yes, of course, the Defense sucked in those games... so I am not blaming Eli but I am pointing out that despite alot of great stats the past 2 years, we were not winning and the Offense and Eli) failed to show up in big ways in several games.
We haven't seen the latter in years, and one could argue that with better quarterback play, we had legitimate chances to win last Monday and last night.
One issue, with a porous offensive line, is that Manning is completely and utterly immobile, possibly the very worst in the league at it. If he has to move, bad things happen.
the Giants failures over the last four years has easily been a group effort.
Eli has had some bad games, but most QB's outside of Tom Brady/Aaron Rodgers generally do. He's also put together some very, very good games. And on many of those occasions, the Giants have played horribly defensively.
We haven't had a run game since....when??? Our pass rush has been an embarrassment, thru this season despite all the money. Our OL needs to be covered up by Eli getting rid of the ball almost faster than any QB in the league. That's really not his game, but he's been making it work.
Football is the ultimate team game and there are only a very select few QBs who can do it all themselves, and even those guys need help.
Eli is struggling right now, but two games don't make it a career and as someone on another post said, it's more the 'system' that is the real issue.
the Giants failures over the last four years has easily been a group effort.
Eli has had some bad games, but most QB's outside of Tom Brady/Aaron Rodgers generally do. He's also put together some very, very good games. And on many of those occasions, the Giants have played horribly defensively.
We haven't had a run game since....when??? Our pass rush has been an embarrassment, thru this season despite all the money. Our OL needs to be covered up by Eli getting rid of the ball almost faster than any QB in the league. That's really not his game, but he's been making it work.
Football is the ultimate team game and there are only a very select few QBs who can do it all themselves, and even those guys need help.
Eli is struggling right now, but two games don't make it a career and as someone on another post said, it's more the 'system' that is the real issue.
And when I say system, it's not meant to mean this WCO. I mean from the HC down to the play calling and game day strategy, and how players are being used.
But he has a point. Eli needs to win a game for them at some point. He starts slow - when was the last time they scored a TD on their 1st possession? He has not been able to put together a complete 4 quarter game. He is missing wide open receivers and never hits anyone in stride. It is alarming. If you don't think so, you're lying to yourself.
5 TD's against NO and another 4 or 5 against Caroline... lots of yards... but 2 big losses. Yes, of course, the Defense sucked in those games... so I am not blaming Eli but I am pointing out that despite alot of great stats the past 2 years, we were not winning and the Offense and Eli) failed to show up in big ways in several games.
Can you rewrite this post? But except make sense this time.
........when the Giants were winning Eli is good but he doesn't put the stats up that other guys do (and we'd point to QBs that essentially did in stat friendly/garbage time offenses...didn't win crap) when trying to rank him.
Now he's putting up the stats, but not winning.......and we are back to stats are for losers LOL
Which took Carr years of being a backup to get over. Once a QB is hearing and seeing presssure on plays he is protected and having sloppy footwork and happy feet there isn't a lot you can do.
It might also be that he is cursed with "Ereck Flowers Disease". That's there're you hear footsteps where there aren't any footsteps and get destroyed when you should hear footsteps.
That what Flowers did is totally unacceptable. But, it is stuff like this that gets teams and players upset. You want to blame Eli for 2013 go ahead, you want to blame Eli for the last 2 1/4 games, that's fair. But our best player over the last four years has been Eli and OBJ since he has been here. Raanan is a joke (and I am not wasting my time looking for it and don't know answer) but I would bet you can find him writing that the benefiy of hiring McAdoo was the 2014/2015 Eli seasons.
Such BS. He's had some great games against the elite teams...
2015 vs (9-0) Patriots - Drove down the field to take the lead with a FG w/ under 2 mins left...Collins drops INT, defense blows it, lose game
Finished: 26/44 361yds 2TD 0INT
2015 vs (14-0) Panthers - Led a 21 point comeback to tie the game with under 2 minutes left...defense blows it, lose game
Finished: 29/46 245yds 4TD 1INT
2014 vs (6-1) Cowboys - Throws TD on 4th & 5 to get Giants within 7 late in 4th quarter...defense gives up 10 play 4+ minute drive for a FG to seal win.
Finished: 21/33 248yds 3TD 0INT
2014 vs (8-3) Cowboys - Passed for a TD to take the lead with 3 minutes left, defense gives up touchdown in 6 plays / 2+ minutes, lose game
Finished: 29/40 338yds 3TD 1INT
Eli is a good QB...but he is long removed from being able to carry a team thru a season. Much of that has to do with a OL that has not given him much time over the same time period.
I imagine Eli would be much better if he had the time Rodgers had last night.
2012 and 2013 he was a bottom 10 QB in the NFL.
then we changed the system and OBJ came... he had a solid 2014.
He was excellent last year given what we had to work with.
This year he has been terrible- its just being honest- just as he was very good last year.
I feel the playcalling this year has also been quite poor--- we are letting other teams dictate what we do---- and because of that have little rhythm-- and we basically run 1 running play.
Take your stats. Why don't you tell us about Eli's red zone efficiency last year? I mean, he threw for 4400 yards and so on, blah blah. Wins and Losses are the most important stats.
Ranaan is right. Of course he's had some good games. Of course he isn't 100% to blame. But he is the QB of the team, and more than any other player, bears the most responsibility on the outcome of the game. You can't go four years without beating a quality team and still go to the excuses playbook. He used to be good, he's not anymore.
and benefits enormously from good run blocking since he is excellent with the PA. With those 2 factors, he is a lethal elite QB.
While obviously not a GM, my highest priority throughout his tenure would be (/have been) a stout offensive line. He made Jake Ballard, Kevin Boss, even Reuben fucking Randle at times look like good players. That should tell you where the priority should be.
It's a painful thought, but we may not see him in the post-season again.
2012 and 2013 he was a bottom 10 QB in the NFL.
then we changed the system and OBJ came... he had a solid 2014.
He was excellent last year given what we had to work with.
This year he has been terrible- its just being honest- just as he was very good last year.
I feel the playcalling this year has also been quite poor--- we are letting other teams dictate what we do---- and because of that have little rhythm-- and we basically run 1 running play.
There was a little girl,
And she had a little curl
Right in the middle of her forehead.
When she was good
She was very, very good,
And when she was bad she was horrid.
Are Wins. In that case Ranaan is right...ELI is failing
Yeah because he plays by himself. Things like defense and OL don't matter. How is Bree's doing since his defense stepped off a cliff? What about Flacco? Eli is not Rogers, his brother, or Brady, a qb who can win with almost no other talent. He isn't that special, but he is right below them and has had to work with a garbage defense and a mediocre/bad offensive line for a long time. Doesn't excuse the last two games, but again a full view should be had. Eli is usually the only reason why we are in games
2012 and 2013 he was a bottom 10 QB in the NFL.
then we changed the system and OBJ came... he had a solid 2014.
He was excellent last year given what we had to work with.
This year he has been terrible- its just being honest- just as he was very good last year.
I feel the playcalling this year has also been quite poor--- we are letting other teams dictate what we do---- and because of that have little rhythm-- and we basically run 1 running play.
Bottom 10 in 2012?? LOL............
he came out on fire and then was AWFUL for the last 8 games.
that is fact not opinion
you do so dispassionately. No nostalgia or loyalty for what he's done for the organization. If you see a QB you like in the draft and have the opportunity to select him, run to the podium.
Although it's almost impossible to emulate, you strive to be the Packers/Niners, not the Browns.
has either taken the lead or won a game in the 4th quarter 14 times in the past 3 seasons, the issue isn't with his ability to carry the team - it falls to the D at that point.
This talk that eli is far removed from being able to carry a team should be debunked by the stats over the past two years - but even for those people who shun stats, look at the times he's put us in a position to win. Just last year, he had us in a lead or came back to tie a game in the 4th quarter against the Cowboys, Falcons, Pats, Panthers, Jets and Saints, only to have the team lose all of those games.
Now maybe an argument can be made he's losing it this year - I don't know - his first two games were pretty darn good, but to make it sound like he's failed the team continually without acknowledging that we had two of the WORST defenses in franchise history, is reporting with an agenda.
but an average QB right now. You guys act like he is 27 or 28 and in his prime. He isn't. His arm strength is dropping evidenced by a lot of deep throws that hang up there and a number of throws that look like he is shot putting the ball.
I don't think anybody thinks the team is better with Nassib but I am starting to think if we are to make a full transition to better days we need to make some big changes. I wonder if Denver would be interested in having Eli as their QB right now with a shot at the SB? We are not winning with the talent we have. This team is oddly put together with guys who are similar at the same position and in some cases guys who are not only similar in physical presence and ability but similar in lack of ability.
but the fact is that over the past several seasons he has had as many or more bad games as good games, particularly against quality teams. To be fair, everyone knows that the article and the author are overstating the point to gain attention. Eli knows that at his salary this sensationalist approach comes with the territory.
Give Eli an OL, a defense that can at least slow down the other team, a quality RB and TE and see what he can do, even now. But no one should deny the reality that Eli is a big part of the problem this year and has been for a few years. The OL and TEs are no worse than in the recent past, the defense is better, the WRs much better and I believe that the RBs are better. The results thus far-- basically the same, with a tea and a QB that inevitably self-destruct at several points in each game.
2012 and 2013 he was a bottom 10 QB in the NFL.
then we changed the system and OBJ came... he had a solid 2014.
He was excellent last year given what we had to work with.
This year he has been terrible- its just being honest- just as he was very good last year.
I feel the playcalling this year has also been quite poor--- we are letting other teams dictate what we do---- and because of that have little rhythm-- and we basically run 1 running play.
Bottom 10 in 2012?? LOL............
he came out on fire and then was AWFUL for the last 8 games.
that is fact not opinion
Awful?? Five TD's in the finale....oh, but don't count that right?
2008- first part of 2012.... Eli was fantastic.
2012 after the first part and 2013 he was very poor--- if you dont remember the ravens and bengals games... i dont know what to tell you
2014-2015 he was excellent- in particular last year.
this year he has been terrible- when expectations were much higher.
if we are just honest with analysis... the above holds.
RE: Such BS. He's had some great games against the elite teams...
2015 vs (9-0) Patriots - Drove down the field to take the lead with a FG w/ under 2 mins left...Collins drops INT, defense blows it, lose game
Finished: 26/44 361yds 2TD 0INT
2015 vs (14-0) Panthers - Led a 21 point comeback to tie the game with under 2 minutes left...defense blows it, lose game
Finished: 29/46 245yds 4TD 1INT
2014 vs (6-1) Cowboys - Throws TD on 4th & 5 to get Giants within 7 late in 4th quarter...defense gives up 10 play 4+ minute drive for a FG to seal win.
Finished: 21/33 248yds 3TD 0INT
2014 vs (8-3) Cowboys - Passed for a TD to take the lead with 3 minutes left, defense gives up touchdown in 6 plays / 2+ minutes, lose game
Finished: 29/40 338yds 3TD 1INT
I was going to make a similar post, but you did it.
Also, I know he missed Beckham, I still think Tye should have hauled in the seam pass, and the Deep out to Shepard required a perfect pass. Should he make those throws, sure, but Eli has played way worse than last night.
Also, in 2013, which was the worst Giants team in recent memoey, Eli hit some fucking scrub in the back of the End zone against the Cowboys to tie it up, I am certain with another QB and coach the 2013 team would have had 2 wins max. . The D promptly came out and blew it. Giants win that and who knows.
There are fans out there who honestly think this team's main issue is QB?
The money also makes no sense, the Giants had oodles of cash this offseason, and if you somehow get a new franchise QB (THE single hardest position to fill in sports) he will have to be paid.
As someone said on here last night, to argue now that he is now in the same class of QB as Brady, Rodgers, Brees, or even Roethlisberger is foolish.
I love Eli, but it's getting very tiring watch this happy feet, aw-shucks bullshit week after week, year after year.
You can only rest on the 2007 and 2011 seasons for so long. Eli was clutch in so many games those two years, but that doesn't help us now. You can't be paid $18 million/year and play like a scared rookie in the pocket.
........when the Giants were winning Eli is good but he doesn't put the stats up that other guys do (and we'd point to QBs that essentially did in stat friendly/garbage time offenses...didn't win crap) when trying to rank him.
Now he's putting up the stats, but not winning.......and we are back to stats are for losers LOL
Ya can't win sometimes...............
That's actually exactly consistent. In both cases, people are saying that the stats are overrated; it's just that Eli has gone from a winner who put up middling numbers to a losing QB who has put up more impressive numbers.
I guess what I am trying to say - perhaps not well - is that when you look at the season as a whole the overall stats have been good the previous 2 years but as a team we are still losing.
and when you see that 9 or 10 of the TD's came in 2 games that we lost (again, not b/c of Eli) it cheapens the overall stats to me. Especially when I can think of other games where Eli and the O were instrumental in the loss.
Kind of like the running back who essentially gets pushed back or fails to pick up yards consistently but breaks off a bunch of big runs so that overall stats look good but the effect on helping the team sustain drives and win is minimal.
I am sure I am too far afield with this post as respects Eli.... I have no interest in diminishing his time here, but I also am not going to sit back and make excuses when it is fairly obvious he is hurting the team with his play so far in 2016.
at things somewhat in a vacuum. If people have watched Rodgers this year and apply the same standards to Eli, Rodgers has played 1 very good game so far.
The rest have been mediocre, including last night.
in fact, if we were Packer fans, we'd be moaning that they let us stay in the game and that, even with all the time in the world to throw that our QB made some poor decisions.
he's plainly a remarkable competitor who wants badly to win. Almost 200 starts in a row should underscore that fact.
He wouldn't be playing any more or less hard if he made $10M or $30M a year. His bro was playing while being all but completely broken down. The Mannings love to play football and want to win.
He doesn't trust the offensive line, and that is leading to poor mechanics.
We've seen this before with him. The blocking has to be there, and it isn't consistently. It's impacting his play even when the rush doesn't get to him.
at things somewhat in a vacuum. If people have watched Rodgers this year and apply the same standards to Eli, Rodgers has played 1 very good game so far.
The rest have been mediocre, including last night.
in fact, if we were Packer fans, we'd be moaning that they let us stay in the game and that, even with all the time in the world to throw that our QB made some poor decisions.
and when you see that 9 or 10 of the TD's came in 2 games that we lost (again, not b/c of Eli) it cheapens the overall stats to me. Especially when I can think of other games where Eli and the O were instrumental in the loss.
Kind of like the running back who essentially gets pushed back or fails to pick up yards consistently but breaks off a bunch of big runs so that overall stats look good but the effect on helping the team sustain drives and win is minimal.
Eli has CONSISTENTLY put the team in a lead or a tie in the 4th quarter of games, often in the last two minutes, only to see the game lost. That isn't a function of stats.
Put it this way - in terms of stats, Eli Manning has the 2nd most games where he either takes the lead or ties the game in the 4th quarter. He has done his part, but can't help it if the D let's Dallas and Atlanta drive down or that the punter facemasks a Saints returner. Or that the D allows Carolina to march right down the field. Or that the kicker misses a FG against the Jets.
People who spent years complaining about Graziano deserve what
Eli was awful yesterday, deserves criticism for it and some concern, but this isn't the article he would have written, at least to that extent, just last year.
Re: Rodgers, you are right... people would be/should be complaining about his play and the play of entire team. They were bad last year and have been mediocre this year.
I definitely thought he should have put up better numbers/ put us away last night with all of the time he had.
is that even when I want to criticize Eli (which i do after the last two games) you got garbage like this article that just makes me want to stick up for him again. I am 41 and have watched NY sports for my entire life and I have never seen such criticism of such a good player. I use to hear how Mickey Mantle was never appreciated, and while obviously he was a better player in his sport than Elinhas been, I can't think of a NYer in my lifetime who has gotten as raw a deal as Eli has gotten. Only guy close was Ewing, but he didn't have two MVPs on the biggest stage.
........when the Giants were winning Eli is good but he doesn't put the stats up that other guys do (and we'd point to QBs that essentially did in stat friendly/garbage time offenses...didn't win crap) when trying to rank him.
Now he's putting up the stats, but not winning.......and we are back to stats are for losers LOL
Ya can't win sometimes...............
That's actually exactly consistent. In both cases, people are saying that the stats are overrated; it's just that Eli has gone from a winner who put up middling numbers to a losing QB who has put up more impressive numbers.
When he was putting up middling #s and winning two SBs, people were saying he was overrated and not even Top 10.......I think you're missing my point.
He doesn't trust the offensive line, and that is leading to poor mechanics.
We've seen this before with him. The blocking has to be there, and it isn't consistently. It's impacting his play even when the rush doesn't get to him.
Yep, it's correctable, but we need to correct the OL.
To say he's hit the wall, after two bad games....is really a stretch.
As someone said on here last night, to argue now that he is now in the same class of QB as Brady, Rodgers, Brees, or even Roethlisberger is foolish...
...You can't be paid $18 million/year and play like a scared rookie in the pocket.
Yeah pretty much this. I love what Eli has done, but Giants fans have had him in a protective bubble from any criticism since 2011. He has been awful this year, its OK to say so.
he's plainly a remarkable competitor who wants badly to win. Almost 200 starts in a row should underscore that fact.
He wouldn't be playing any more or less hard if he made $10M or $30M a year. His bro was playing while being all but completely broken down. The Mannings love to play football and want to win.
Sure, he wants to win. Everyone wants to win. But is he physically capable of leading the team to big wins anymore?
In some ways this is reminiscent of the arguments about whether to keep Coughlin. Yes, 2007 and 2011, and we will always love Eli for those seasons and he will always hold a special place in this franchise and and with all fans.
But it is now 2016. Is he even the same qb anymore? It sure doesn't look like it to me.
that the Eli defenders here are relying on this stats for the past two years and disregarding his W-L record....but at the same time defending him from others who say his career stats are so-so by pointing out that he won 2 super bowls and that's all that matters.
So please decide....is it best to rate a QB by stats or by wins? Cause you can't have it both ways.
........when the Giants were winning Eli is good but he doesn't put the stats up that other guys do (and we'd point to QBs that essentially did in stat friendly/garbage time offenses...didn't win crap) when trying to rank him.
Now he's putting up the stats, but not winning.......and we are back to stats are for losers LOL
Ya can't win sometimes...............
That's actually exactly consistent. In both cases, people are saying that the stats are overrated; it's just that Eli has gone from a winner who put up middling numbers to a losing QB who has put up more impressive numbers.
When he was putting up middling #s and winning two SBs, people were saying he was overrated and not even Top 10.......I think you're missing my point.
In that case, that makes sense. You didn't actually say that in your post though so I misunderstood.
the Giants for 4 years?? He had his 2 best years the past 2 seasons. What the hell is he talking about?
His two best years???? They won 12 games combined. !!! Two best years my ass. His two best seasons were 2008 and 2011.
Stats. Love those stats. Eli was Blake bortles NFC in 2014-2015. He threw 30tds and lost a ton of games. Big deal. I'm not saying Eli played poorly the last two years at all but his play didn't lead to win which means his stats should be taken with a grain of salt. And I said the reverse back in the good old days when Eli actually won games despite not posting gawdy stats. It's all about wins.
By the way Eli is on pace for a nice statistical season yet again. And he's played like dog shit.
the Giants for 4 years?? He had his 2 best years the past 2 seasons. What the hell is he talking about?
His two best years???? They won 12 games combined. !!! Two best years my ass. His two best seasons were 2008 and 2011.
Stats. Love those stats. Eli was Blake bortles NFC in 2014-2015. He threw 30tds and lost a ton of games. Big deal. I'm not saying Eli played poorly the last two years at all but his play didn't lead to win which means his stats should be taken with a grain of salt. And I said the reverse back in the good old days when Eli actually won games despite not posting gawdy stats. It's all about wins.
By the way Eli is on pace for a nice statistical season yet again. And he's played like dog shit.
djm - you know Eli doesn't play defense right? We had the worst defense in NFL history last season. Do you understand that your 11 players on defense are half of the team? Or is Eli and the offense only responsible for losses? You're a moron.
years reading BBI I have never understood the Eli arguments. On one hand yes he has two super bowls but do we really have people that are such absolute homers that they can't see his career long struggles? Eli has always been capable of making some awesome plays for us but he absolutely has been very capable of some ridiculously bad plays as well. Much more then any of the top Qbs. I would imagine he has to be very high up on the list of interceptions all time. Yes some of those have been due to bad luck, bad receivers, bad o line, but a lot of them are just straight out poor throws and bad choices. He has always been the type of QB that you feel can pull out a win when it matters but at that same time I think most honest fans can say he definitely makes you nervous late in games when you worry he may try and make a throw that he absolutely should not have. He has still been good for us though, but not lately. I hope he gets it together but if he doesn't you start to look at trying to find something for the future. Just because Peyton and Brady have played well late in their careers doesn't mean that Eli will everyone is different and he really hasn't ever been on their level anyways.
YOu want to be really depressed about Eli? Watch clips of Eli from 05-2011 and really examine the pocket awareness Eli possessed back then. Watch the throws on 3rd down Eli would make after throwing an awful int one drive earlier. Watch how Eli ALWAYS made the first pass rusher miss or how he could slide in the pocket and make big boy throws that most qbs could only dream of. Then see his stats of 20-38 for 280 2 tds 2 ints and a fiends win. Then watch Eli after 2011 and tell me with a straight face Eli is playing well with those overrated stats of his.
that the Eli defenders here are relying on this stats for the past two years and disregarding his W-L record....but at the same time defending him from others who say his career stats are so-so by pointing out that he won 2 super bowls and that's all that matters.
So please decide....is it best to rate a QB by stats or by wins? Cause you can't have it both ways.
I guess what I am trying to say - perhaps not well - is that when you look at the season as a whole the overall stats have been good the previous 2 years but as a team we are still losing.
and when you see that 9 or 10 of the TD's came in 2 games that we lost (again, not b/c of Eli) it cheapens the overall stats to me. Especially when I can think of other games where Eli and the O were instrumental in the loss.
Kind of like the running back who essentially gets pushed back or fails to pick up yards consistently but breaks off a bunch of big runs so that overall stats look good but the effect on helping the team sustain drives and win is minimal.
I am sure I am too far afield with this post as respects Eli.... I have no interest in diminishing his time here, but I also am not going to sit back and make excuses when it is fairly obvious he is hurting the team with his play so far in 2016.
I still don't get the point you're trying to make. You're essentially saying that even when Eli does his job really, really well, it's cheapened by the rest of the team not holding up their end of the bargain?
When the Giants lose games because of Eli's poor play, that's on Eli. When the Giants lose games despite Eli's great play, that's not on Eli. A loss does not cheapen a great performance by Eli. That's absurd.
eli is struggling and deserves to see his way out of this. He has 4 home games and a trip to london in the next month. Plenty of time to turn it around. I think one big game will snap him out of it and get his confidence back. Good time for it happen is next week.
I dont know if he is hurt, scared, or doesnt trust his line - but he deserves to see his way out of this. If this happens for 16 games, then we can revisit his status for next year. Put it bluntly, if Eli deserves to be benched or traded - there's abotu 15-20 others who deserve it as well.
Eli has regressed
Richburg has regressed big time
Flowers has been worse this year than last year
Tight ends are terrible.
It's a cumulative thing. When one player looks bad, the all look bad as a unit.
YOu want to be really depressed about Eli? Watch clips of Eli from 05-2011 and really examine the pocket awareness Eli possessed back then. Watch the throws on 3rd down Eli would make after throwing an awful int one drive earlier. Watch how Eli ALWAYS made the first pass rusher miss or how he could slide in the pocket and make big boy throws that most qbs could only dream of. Then see his stats of 20-38 for 280 2 tds 2 ints and a fiends win. Then watch Eli after 2011 and tell me with a straight face Eli is playing well with those overrated stats of his.
It's a big problem. Eli is not the same player.
djm - are you this obtuse? Eli had the best offensive line in football for about 4 years during that time.
that the Eli defenders here are relying on this stats for the past two years and disregarding his W-L record....but at the same time defending him from others who say his career stats are so-so by pointing out that he won 2 super bowls and that's all that matters.
So please decide....is it best to rate a QB by stats or by wins? Cause you can't have it both ways.
First of all, for the hundredth time, quarterbacks don't have Win-Loss records. (Pitchers in baseball do.)
Second of all, when a quarterback engineers TWO Super Bowl-winning drives and is awarded Super Bowl MVP twice, yeah that's a factor in gauging his greatness.
Third of all, who says you can't evaluate a quarterback based on both stats and postseason success?
He is too often getting no time. Eli strenghts are his pre snap reads and the ability to go through his progression. He does not have the time to get to his second and thrid options. Did you see the time they gave Rodgers...he still threw a couple of picks. The poor offensive line play has changed his internal clock. This is not good, once a QB gets consistent quick pressure, they get happy feet, anyone would.
and instead of just saying that, Jordan tries to stretch it beyond all bounds of rationality. Since the start of 2014, here's the list of guys with more TD passes than Eli... Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees, Tom Brady, and Philip Rivers.
what ryanmkeane is saying, the Giants defense the past two years has been two of the franchise's WORST years ever. I think there are some stats where their defense last year was the WORST of all-time - not franchise, but NFL!
but when it is pointed out that Eli actually led go -ahead or tying drives in the 4th quarters of games against the cowboys, Falcons, Saints, Panthers and Patriots - all games we lost the lead in, as well as the Jets game where our kicker missed a key FG, those games are also on Eli??
Maybe he's declining, I don't know, but I'll just repeat what was said above - basing his decline on saying he can't carry a team for the past four years when he has had more 4th quarter comebacks than almost any other QB is horseshit - especially knowing how historically bad the D has been.
Espn pays by the click count on the article, I bet.
He had a very public issue with Reese before ever signing on with ESPN and whatever the issue with Flowers is clearly didn't just start yesterday (he was conducting interviews with other reporters in calm, reasonable fashion until Ranaan approaching set him off enough to put hands on him) too.
He's seemingly burning source-bridges with how he's doing things in a really odd way for a guy who once claimed to be modeling himself after Garafolo. He better hope he has a future as a talking head/troll beyond actually reporting (which perhaps is connected to this LCD piece on Eli).
YOu want to be really depressed about Eli? Watch clips of Eli from 05-2011 and really examine the pocket awareness Eli possessed back then. Watch the throws on 3rd down Eli would make after throwing an awful int one drive earlier. Watch how Eli ALWAYS made the first pass rusher miss or how he could slide in the pocket and make big boy throws that most qbs could only dream of. Then see his stats of 20-38 for 280 2 tds 2 ints and a fiends win. Then watch Eli after 2011 and tell me with a straight face Eli is playing well with those overrated stats of his.
It's a big problem. Eli is not the same player.
djm - are you this obtuse? Eli had the best offensive line in football for about 4 years during that time.
I was thinking the same thing. The Giants were running long routes down the field, and Eli would have time to scan the field.
There's really no scanning now, it's snap it and go to a spot (which is the WCO).
When his initial read isn't there, then it's usually a jailbreak and Eli needs to throw it away.
His play so far this season is a reflection of erratic protection and shitty game plans. His accuracy has been off, but so would just about any QB who's constantly at risk of being suplexed every 3rd drop back.
is by blaming Eli Manning for the problems on offense this year. Getting pushed by Flowers and blaming Eli Manning for everything the last four is making for a great spotlight year for Raanan.
The neverending list of scapegoats for problems continues and every minute we spend doing that is another we could have spent focusing on what works.
5 TD's against NO and another 4 or 5 against Caroline... lots of yards... but 2 big losses. Yes, of course, the Defense sucked in those games... so I am not blaming Eli but I am pointing out that despite alot of great stats the past 2 years, we were not winning and the Offense and Eli) failed to show up in big ways in several games.
OMG make it stop!! "I know Eli threw 5 TD's but we lost, so, um....He totally should have thrown 6!" SMFH
perfectly stated - I'm afraid now that Jordan is with ESPN he's more of a macro level "just put a headline out there" kinda pawn than he is an actual respected beat writer that has the pulse of the team. It's a shame, and somewhat ironic, that his really good work is what led him to be hired by ESPN.
so I am not blaming Eli but I am pointing out that despite alot of great stats the past 2 years, we were not winning and the Offense and Eli) failed to show up in big ways in several games.
Is that Eli led the team back to lead or tie against the Cowboys, Falcons, Saints, Pats and Panthers and our K missed a FG to do the same against the Jets.
That's 6 games just from 2015 where eli and teh offense did their part. All losses. So couple those games with the 6 wins, and you have 12 games where the offense was in position to win or actually won.
So exactly how many times did eli and the O fail to show up?
This is why I don't follow any of the beat reporters or even the national guys anymore. It's all about clicks and blog hits and testing out snippets to see if they catch fire.
I have concerns about Eli but this article is just so disgusting and disingenuous.
As for Eli, I have worries about him holding up over next few years and whether people want to admit it I'm not a believer he's going to age well to give us another four or five seasons. The OL worries me from the standpoint that it's been a thorn now for several years despite some draft pick investment (three high picks) and little progressive improvement as a unit in both run and pass coverage. Is it scheme or players or a mix or mess of everything.
By the time we get a good sturdy OL in place we may be waving goodbye to Eli.
Classic horseshit writing, where a guy is playing poorly NOW
shockeyisthebest8056 : 1:06 pm : link : reply
and instead of just saying that, Jordan tries to stretch it beyond all bounds of rationality. Since the start of 2014, here's the list of guys with more TD passes than Eli... Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees, Tom Brady, and Philip Rivers.
I expect better from Jordan.
The Season is far from over . The O-line can;t run block with
any kind of consistency . He doesn't have a Legitimate
threat at the TE position and basically 3 WR's who are
best suited for the slot . OBJ is a generational talent
that can get it done on the outside despite his stature .
Until we run the ball decently enough it will be more of the same defending us .
The NFL has caught on to Mac and his Offense he needs to
change that up and do it in a hurry .
Not sure how that gets done with the current O-line .
Hopefully we see more of Adams Davis and Perkins .
I think Davis can move the chains because of his size
and ability to win jump balls .
not going to get into long drawn out discussions on this
but I am not pointing to any particular game and saying "we would have won if Eli did this ..."... ok? so this isn't about 6 TD's vs 5TD's.
I am saying that some are looking at the entire season's worth of stats (in 14 and 15) and saying Eli had great years when the fact is that we were a losing team and there were plenty of games where Eli and the O played badly for long stretches and/or the entire game.
People want to point to the last few minutes of a bunch of games and say "oh, if only the defense was better..." but were there oppty's earlier in some of those games where the O could have put the game away and not had it come down to the last drive of the game?
And you know what, none of that even matters I suppose... (except in context of the linked article in the OP)... what matters is 2016 and no matter what metric you use (stats, W/L's, your eyes), Eli is playing very badly. In fact, he is contributing directly to the losses which you generally don't expect our of your "elite" franchise QB on any sustained level.
Unlike others here, I rarely make definitive statements like "Get rid of him", etc... but I am not afraid to wonder out loud if we are seeing the beginning of the end as respects Eli.
so I am not blaming Eli but I am pointing out that despite alot of great stats the past 2 years, we were not winning and the Offense and Eli) failed to show up in big ways in several games.
Is that Eli led the team back to lead or tie against the Cowboys, Falcons, Saints, Pats and Panthers and our K missed a FG to do the same against the Jets.
That's 6 games just from 2015 where eli and teh offense did their part. All losses. So couple those games with the 6 wins, and you have 12 games where the offense was in position to win or actually won.
So exactly how many times did eli and the O fail to show up?
Stop making sense FatMan. Step away from the computer and come back in a few days when people start making valid points again and resume using logic.
RE: not going to get into long drawn out discussions on this
but I am not pointing to any particular game and saying "we would have won if Eli did this ..."... ok? so this isn't about 6 TD's vs 5TD's.
I am saying that some are looking at the entire season's worth of stats (in 14 and 15) and saying Eli had great years when the fact is that we were a losing team and there were plenty of games where Eli and the O played badly for long stretches and/or the entire game.
People want to point to the last few minutes of a bunch of games and say "oh, if only the defense was better..." but were there oppty's earlier in some of those games where the O could have put the game away and not had it come down to the last drive of the game?
And you know what, none of that even matters I suppose... (except in context of the linked article in the OP)... what matters is 2016 and no matter what metric you use (stats, W/L's, your eyes), Eli is playing very badly. In fact, he is contributing directly to the losses which you generally don't expect our of your "elite" franchise QB on any sustained level.
Unlike others here, I rarely make definitive statements like "Get rid of him", etc... but I am not afraid to wonder out loud if we are seeing the beginning of the end as respects Eli.
I can tell you took a deep breath before writing that. The offense was 6th in yards entering last night's game. Turnovers is what cost us the Washington game. Eli played poorly against Minnesota and GB. I don't dispute that. Like others have said. Just relax for a second and give Eli a chance to turn the season around. If he plays poorly for an entire year, then we can start wondering about our next QB. Doesn't Eli deserve that?
what ryanmkeane is saying, the Giants defense the past two years has been two of the franchise's WORST years ever. I think there are some stats where their defense last year was the WORST of all-time - not franchise, but NFL!
but when it is pointed out that Eli actually led go -ahead or tying drives in the 4th quarters of games against the cowboys, Falcons, Saints, Panthers and Patriots - all games we lost the lead in, as well as the Jets game where our kicker missed a key FG, those games are also on Eli??
Maybe he's declining, I don't know, but I'll just repeat what was said above - basing his decline on saying he can't carry a team for the past four years when he has had more 4th quarter comebacks than almost any other QB is horseshit - especially knowing how historically bad the D has been.
Good post FMiC. Ranaan's full of shit, he exposed himself for what he is when he went at Reese, and yes, Reese made him look stupid.
I can assure you I was not worked up during any of my posts. quite the opposite - I have come to terms with this team and accepted what we are.
You mention TO's against WASH - didn't Eli have 2 of them?
I am not running Eli out of town. I am not calling for his benching. He can and will play the entire year come hell or high water, so your wasting your breath asking me to give him a chance.
I will be as happy as any Giant fan if Eli goes on a tear and the rest of the team comes together and they win 9/10/11 games and make a run at the PO's. I just don't see anything beyond blind hope to suggest it will happen.
is when Eli does rebound, which I do believe he will, and the Giants fall short of the playoffs for whatever reason - they will come back to these last two games as reminders why Eli sucks and why we need to move on. The Les in TOs and the Allstarjim who blame everything on the QB and the entire team. For fucks sake even Radar, who we all know and love, is at least making sense of the situation.
I mean Les is literally beating his chest because Eli is immobile and plays every week. The true fucking worst kind of fan there is. Defense gives up 30 points per game - well its Eli's fault that they arent scoring 31!
Hopefully when he is gone we can draft the andy daltons, ryan tannehills, ryan Fitzpatrick of the worlds.
When even dep can't find a way to defend your play, it's time for extreme hyperbole. Reading this nonsense, you'd think Eli was an undrafted rookie getting batteries throw at him.
Didn't read the responses if there were any. I'll just say it's too early to kill anyone just yet and Eli more than earned benefit of the doubt and ample time for this season to marinate. He's also allowed to have a bad game every now n then.
Sorry if I didn't respond directed to anyone that responded to my earlier posts in this thread. Let's just hope everything moves along properly this season. I am concerned but It's far from over.
This 4th quater come from behind shit is misleading
and not exact.And every qb faces the same perils as Eli with regard to having their defense fail to hold a lead once their QB leads to what appeared to be a game winning drive. Remember when Brady had a game winning drive in the 4th Q SB that their defense gave back.
Maybe if a quarterback played better for the first 3 quarters their wouldn't be this need for 4th quarter theatrics
So who leads the league in failed forth quarter comebacks? Shouldn't we keep an eye on that?
He played extremely well in the first two games (don't forget Beckham dropped two touchdowns against New Orleans), and has generally gotten little support from the rest of the offense in these three losses. I think they turn it around and start a win streak this week. This isn't a great team, but it's not a bad one either.
All that said, it's important to remember that in life things rarely end the way you want them to. Eli has the 11th most pass attempts in the history of the league. If he retired today he will have had a very full career. He has a lot of miles on him: lots of hits, lots of ups and downs.
If he's worn down it would make all the sense in the world.
Every time Eli gets hit he fumbles these days. That's a tell.
I'm not saying Eli is over the hill, but he's not playing that the level he was playing at last year, that's for sure. I think last year's Eli wins the Green Bay game for example.
Hopefully when he is gone we can draft the andy daltons, ryan tannehills, ryan Fitzpatrick of the worlds.
When even dep can't find a way to defend your play, it's time for extreme hyperbole. Reading this nonsense, you'd think Eli was an undrafted rookie getting batteries throw at him.
see here's the problem. Everyone here knows Eli hasnt played well the last 10 quarters. In fact, its probably the worst he has played since his rookie year (and yes that includes 2013). So I think you and I and hopefully agrees he is in a rut and deserves the chance to get out of it.
But what do we have today? Our own beat writer blaming the last 4 years on Eli. Are you serious? Now I know thats not the opinion of the majority of those who have a clue with football. But heres what I noticed with a lot of giants fans. We have a lot (not all) who discredit Eli's two SBs because the defense played well, we had great WRs, a good OL, etc (not saying thats untrue - because everyone stepped up their game during those runs). But when we lose.... we have a TON of posters and now writers blaming Eli for years of the teams poor play. Then when someone says something positive about him..... we are defenders and the posters themselves are rational.
Eli is playing poorly right now. We can question some of his throws and decisions - no doubt about it. But instead of rallying around him, many just want to bury him. He's done, he's old, he's immobile, he makes too much...etc. Anyone who is betting against him hopefully looks foolish in the end.
If rallying around Manning will improve his play I'm all for it. I suspect it won't, but who knows I saw a voodoo priestess make a dead dance when he heard reggae once.
So who leads the league in failed forth quarter comebacks? Shouldn't we keep an eye on that?
If you look at QB's who had the chance to win a game on a last drive and failed, it looks like Drew Brees, Philip Rivers, and Colin Kaepernick were the worst in that regard the past two years.
Just for the record, Eli has the second most comebacks in the past four years.
It isn't considered a failed comeback if a QB leads a team to a lead and then the D gives it right back. I would think that doesn't have to be explained.
But come backs invove many factors including the defense holding on so the QB can get the credit for the come back victory. Or a fortuitous turnover that puts you in FG range to win in a comeback.
Maybe if the QB could put the petal to the metal for the first three quarters we wouldn't need these 4th quarter nail biters. But Eli has not been that type of QB that that goes for the jugular like some QB's. Instead of 4th quarter heroics lets measure game blowouts. What QB leads the league in that wonderful stat
I also don't think 4 quarter come backs are a fair guage on how good a QB is any more then listing blowout wins. This come from behind stat is nauseating. It a team game
RE: I think we have had talent to blow teams out over the years
I also don't think 4 quarter come backs are a fair guage on how good a QB is any more then listing blowout wins. This come from behind stat is nauseating. It a team game
But you just single handily blamed Eli for all the loses this year in another thread. So is it a team game when they win and Eli's fault when they lose?
is that even when I want to criticize Eli (which i do after the last two games) you got garbage like this article that just makes me want to stick up for him again. I am 41 and have watched NY sports for my entire life and I have never seen such criticism of such a good player. I use to hear how Mickey Mantle was never appreciated, and while obviously he was a better player in his sport than Elinhas been, I can't think of a NYer in my lifetime who has gotten as raw a deal as Eli has gotten. Only guy close was Ewing, but he didn't have two MVPs on the biggest stage.
and absolve him if we lose.
He touches the ball the most so he can have the greatest affect on the team and the game. So yes his poor play is the biggest reason we are losing this season.
There is a noticeable shift in philosophy when we grab
early leads. We go into a shell and get conservative. That's why we don't blow teams out. Does that mean Eli stops himself from scoring?? NO. He just wants to protect the ball and kill clock, but to our offense's detriment.
I know I'm not the only one seeing it because a number of you have commented on it.
As far as the Eli failing us for the last 4 years garbage. It's exactly what it is. Garbage. But I do hold him accountable, as a leader of the team, for the lack of focus of his teammates and not setting a higher standard. I don't know, maybe that's the coaching staff's job, but I haven't seen such chaos under Brady or Peyton-led teams.
RE: I think it is you that credits eli when we win
and absolve him if we lose.
He touches the ball the most so he can have the greatest affect on the team and the game. So yes his poor play is the biggest reason we are losing this season.
Actually that's quite false. Got any proof I ever said that? Cause there's proof of you blaming him for loses.
no question I have said Eli has lost games. He has. I also believe you lead the hurrahs for Eli. Often overlooking interceptions fumbles and poor passes with a number of reasons.
no question I have said Eli has lost games. He has. I also believe you lead the hurrahs for Eli. Often overlooking interceptions fumbles and poor passes with a number of reasons.
Got any proof of the question I asked? Because if you are going to make statements without proof, you just look silly. I am a big defender of Eli.... however never have I once said he was the reason we won. Because no one player is ever responsible for a win nor is ever one player responsible for a loss. But I am sure you think football is an individual game so the point of discussing reasons for my beliefs is utterly hopeless with you.
Good God, does Raanan suck at his job.
That's a very strange take by Raanan.
That's a very strange take by Raanan.
Yeah, Eli's 6-TD performance against the Saints last year totally failed the team.
One issue, with a porous offensive line, is that Manning is completely and utterly immobile, possibly the very worst in the league at it. If he has to move, bad things happen.
Eli has had some bad games, but most QB's outside of Tom Brady/Aaron Rodgers generally do. He's also put together some very, very good games. And on many of those occasions, the Giants have played horribly defensively.
We haven't had a run game since....when??? Our pass rush has been an embarrassment, thru this season despite all the money. Our OL needs to be covered up by Eli getting rid of the ball almost faster than any QB in the league. That's really not his game, but he's been making it work.
Football is the ultimate team game and there are only a very select few QBs who can do it all themselves, and even those guys need help.
Eli is struggling right now, but two games don't make it a career and as someone on another post said, it's more the 'system' that is the real issue.
Eli has had some bad games, but most QB's outside of Tom Brady/Aaron Rodgers generally do. He's also put together some very, very good games. And on many of those occasions, the Giants have played horribly defensively.
We haven't had a run game since....when??? Our pass rush has been an embarrassment, thru this season despite all the money. Our OL needs to be covered up by Eli getting rid of the ball almost faster than any QB in the league. That's really not his game, but he's been making it work.
Football is the ultimate team game and there are only a very select few QBs who can do it all themselves, and even those guys need help.
Eli is struggling right now, but two games don't make it a career and as someone on another post said, it's more the 'system' that is the real issue.
And when I say system, it's not meant to mean this WCO. I mean from the HC down to the play calling and game day strategy, and how players are being used.
There were throws to be made last night, step up in the pocket!
Can you rewrite this post? But except make sense this time.
Now he's putting up the stats, but not winning.......and we are back to stats are for losers LOL
Ya can't win sometimes...............
Hopefully when he is gone we can draft the andy daltons, ryan tannehills, ryan Fitzpatrick of the worlds.
It might also be that he is cursed with "Ereck Flowers Disease". That's there're you hear footsteps where there aren't any footsteps and get destroyed when you should hear footsteps.
This was the same QB who was infallible against better Niner defenses.
Last year's Niner game he had a bad interception and two dropped interceptions that would have lost the game.
Yep, this is the guy that beat a 15-1 team, best NFL defense and Bill Belichick in 3 straight games.
No interceptions in those games. Unreal.
Just the last 2 years:
2015 vs (9-0) Patriots - Drove down the field to take the lead with a FG w/ under 2 mins left...Collins drops INT, defense blows it, lose game
Finished: 26/44 361yds 2TD 0INT
2015 vs (14-0) Panthers - Led a 21 point comeback to tie the game with under 2 minutes left...defense blows it, lose game
Finished: 29/46 245yds 4TD 1INT
2014 vs (6-1) Cowboys - Throws TD on 4th & 5 to get Giants within 7 late in 4th quarter...defense gives up 10 play 4+ minute drive for a FG to seal win.
Finished: 21/33 248yds 3TD 0INT
2014 vs (8-3) Cowboys - Passed for a TD to take the lead with 3 minutes left, defense gives up touchdown in 6 plays / 2+ minutes, lose game
Finished: 29/40 338yds 3TD 1INT
The problem is Eli passes are really OFF TARGET. Receivers could start getting hurt as a result. Its amazing.
I imagine Eli would be much better if he had the time Rodgers had last night.
then we changed the system and OBJ came... he had a solid 2014.
He was excellent last year given what we had to work with.
This year he has been terrible- its just being honest- just as he was very good last year.
I feel the playcalling this year has also been quite poor--- we are letting other teams dictate what we do---- and because of that have little rhythm-- and we basically run 1 running play.
Hopefully when he is gone we can draft the andy daltons, ryan tannehills, ryan Fitzpatrick of the worlds.
Thing about it, Dep...is Eli will take it and fight back with play on the field.
Other QBs will make a shit show of it to the media.
Eli is a pro's pro, all the way, thru and thru.
Ranaan is right. Of course he's had some good games. Of course he isn't 100% to blame. But he is the QB of the team, and more than any other player, bears the most responsibility on the outcome of the game. You can't go four years without beating a quality team and still go to the excuses playbook. He used to be good, he's not anymore.
While obviously not a GM, my highest priority throughout his tenure would be (/have been) a stout offensive line. He made Jake Ballard, Kevin Boss, even Reuben fucking Randle at times look like good players. That should tell you where the priority should be.
It's a painful thought, but we may not see him in the post-season again.
then we changed the system and OBJ came... he had a solid 2014.
He was excellent last year given what we had to work with.
This year he has been terrible- its just being honest- just as he was very good last year.
I feel the playcalling this year has also been quite poor--- we are letting other teams dictate what we do---- and because of that have little rhythm-- and we basically run 1 running play.
Bottom 10 in 2012?? LOL............
There was a little girl,
And she had a little curl
Right in the middle of her forehead.
When she was good
She was very, very good,
And when she was bad she was horrid.
Hopefully when he is gone we can draft the andy daltons, ryan tannehills, ryan Fitzpatrick of the worlds.
He's a highly paid player who is grossly under-performing right now. This comes with the territory.
Yeah because he plays by himself. Things like defense and OL don't matter. How is Bree's doing since his defense stepped off a cliff? What about Flacco? Eli is not Rogers, his brother, or Brady, a qb who can win with almost no other talent. He isn't that special, but he is right below them and has had to work with a garbage defense and a mediocre/bad offensive line for a long time. Doesn't excuse the last two games, but again a full view should be had. Eli is usually the only reason why we are in games
This is a fallacy. The numbers look good but his best season was 2011 by FAR.
Quote:
2012 and 2013 he was a bottom 10 QB in the NFL.
then we changed the system and OBJ came... he had a solid 2014.
He was excellent last year given what we had to work with.
This year he has been terrible- its just being honest- just as he was very good last year.
I feel the playcalling this year has also been quite poor--- we are letting other teams dictate what we do---- and because of that have little rhythm-- and we basically run 1 running play.
Bottom 10 in 2012?? LOL............
he came out on fire and then was AWFUL for the last 8 games.
that is fact not opinion
Although it's almost impossible to emulate, you strive to be the Packers/Niners, not the Browns.
This talk that eli is far removed from being able to carry a team should be debunked by the stats over the past two years - but even for those people who shun stats, look at the times he's put us in a position to win. Just last year, he had us in a lead or came back to tie a game in the 4th quarter against the Cowboys, Falcons, Pats, Panthers, Jets and Saints, only to have the team lose all of those games.
Now maybe an argument can be made he's losing it this year - I don't know - his first two games were pretty darn good, but to make it sound like he's failed the team continually without acknowledging that we had two of the WORST defenses in franchise history, is reporting with an agenda.
I don't think anybody thinks the team is better with Nassib but I am starting to think if we are to make a full transition to better days we need to make some big changes. I wonder if Denver would be interested in having Eli as their QB right now with a shot at the SB? We are not winning with the talent we have. This team is oddly put together with guys who are similar at the same position and in some cases guys who are not only similar in physical presence and ability but similar in lack of ability.
We need a change.....
Give Eli an OL, a defense that can at least slow down the other team, a quality RB and TE and see what he can do, even now. But no one should deny the reality that Eli is a big part of the problem this year and has been for a few years. The OL and TEs are no worse than in the recent past, the defense is better, the WRs much better and I believe that the RBs are better. The results thus far-- basically the same, with a tea and a QB that inevitably self-destruct at several points in each game.
Quote:
In comment 13167554 hitdog42 said:
Quote:
2012 and 2013 he was a bottom 10 QB in the NFL.
then we changed the system and OBJ came... he had a solid 2014.
He was excellent last year given what we had to work with.
This year he has been terrible- its just being honest- just as he was very good last year.
I feel the playcalling this year has also been quite poor--- we are letting other teams dictate what we do---- and because of that have little rhythm-- and we basically run 1 running play.
Bottom 10 in 2012?? LOL............
he came out on fire and then was AWFUL for the last 8 games.
that is fact not opinion
Awful?? Five TD's in the finale....oh, but don't count that right?
2012 after the first part and 2013 he was very poor--- if you dont remember the ravens and bengals games... i dont know what to tell you
2014-2015 he was excellent- in particular last year.
this year he has been terrible- when expectations were much higher.
if we are just honest with analysis... the above holds.
Just the last 2 years:
2015 vs (9-0) Patriots - Drove down the field to take the lead with a FG w/ under 2 mins left...Collins drops INT, defense blows it, lose game
Finished: 26/44 361yds 2TD 0INT
2015 vs (14-0) Panthers - Led a 21 point comeback to tie the game with under 2 minutes left...defense blows it, lose game
Finished: 29/46 245yds 4TD 1INT
2014 vs (6-1) Cowboys - Throws TD on 4th & 5 to get Giants within 7 late in 4th quarter...defense gives up 10 play 4+ minute drive for a FG to seal win.
Finished: 21/33 248yds 3TD 0INT
2014 vs (8-3) Cowboys - Passed for a TD to take the lead with 3 minutes left, defense gives up touchdown in 6 plays / 2+ minutes, lose game
Finished: 29/40 338yds 3TD 1INT
I was going to make a similar post, but you did it.
Also, I know he missed Beckham, I still think Tye should have hauled in the seam pass, and the Deep out to Shepard required a perfect pass. Should he make those throws, sure, but Eli has played way worse than last night.
Also, in 2013, which was the worst Giants team in recent memoey, Eli hit some fucking scrub in the back of the End zone against the Cowboys to tie it up, I am certain with another QB and coach the 2013 team would have had 2 wins max. . The D promptly came out and blew it. Giants win that and who knows.
There are fans out there who honestly think this team's main issue is QB?
The money also makes no sense, the Giants had oodles of cash this offseason, and if you somehow get a new franchise QB (THE single hardest position to fill in sports) he will have to be paid.
As someone said on here last night, to argue now that he is now in the same class of QB as Brady, Rodgers, Brees, or even Roethlisberger is foolish.
I love Eli, but it's getting very tiring watch this happy feet, aw-shucks bullshit week after week, year after year.
You can only rest on the 2007 and 2011 seasons for so long. Eli was clutch in so many games those two years, but that doesn't help us now. You can't be paid $18 million/year and play like a scared rookie in the pocket.
Now he's putting up the stats, but not winning.......and we are back to stats are for losers LOL
Ya can't win sometimes...............
That's actually exactly consistent. In both cases, people are saying that the stats are overrated; it's just that Eli has gone from a winner who put up middling numbers to a losing QB who has put up more impressive numbers.
and when you see that 9 or 10 of the TD's came in 2 games that we lost (again, not b/c of Eli) it cheapens the overall stats to me. Especially when I can think of other games where Eli and the O were instrumental in the loss.
Kind of like the running back who essentially gets pushed back or fails to pick up yards consistently but breaks off a bunch of big runs so that overall stats look good but the effect on helping the team sustain drives and win is minimal.
I am sure I am too far afield with this post as respects Eli.... I have no interest in diminishing his time here, but I also am not going to sit back and make excuses when it is fairly obvious he is hurting the team with his play so far in 2016.
The rest have been mediocre, including last night.
in fact, if we were Packer fans, we'd be moaning that they let us stay in the game and that, even with all the time in the world to throw that our QB made some poor decisions.
He wouldn't be playing any more or less hard if he made $10M or $30M a year. His bro was playing while being all but completely broken down. The Mannings love to play football and want to win.
We've seen this before with him. The blocking has to be there, and it isn't consistently. It's impacting his play even when the rush doesn't get to him.
The rest have been mediocre, including last night.
in fact, if we were Packer fans, we'd be moaning that they let us stay in the game and that, even with all the time in the world to throw that our QB made some poor decisions.
Spot on
Kind of like the running back who essentially gets pushed back or fails to pick up yards consistently but breaks off a bunch of big runs so that overall stats look good but the effect on helping the team sustain drives and win is minimal.
Eli has CONSISTENTLY put the team in a lead or a tie in the 4th quarter of games, often in the last two minutes, only to see the game lost. That isn't a function of stats.
Put it this way - in terms of stats, Eli Manning has the 2nd most games where he either takes the lead or ties the game in the 4th quarter. He has done his part, but can't help it if the D let's Dallas and Atlanta drive down or that the punter facemasks a Saints returner. Or that the D allows Carolina to march right down the field. Or that the kicker misses a FG against the Jets.
Eli was awful yesterday, deserves criticism for it and some concern, but this isn't the article he would have written, at least to that extent, just last year.
I definitely thought he should have put up better numbers/ put us away last night with all of the time he had.
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........when the Giants were winning Eli is good but he doesn't put the stats up that other guys do (and we'd point to QBs that essentially did in stat friendly/garbage time offenses...didn't win crap) when trying to rank him.
Now he's putting up the stats, but not winning.......and we are back to stats are for losers LOL
Ya can't win sometimes...............
That's actually exactly consistent. In both cases, people are saying that the stats are overrated; it's just that Eli has gone from a winner who put up middling numbers to a losing QB who has put up more impressive numbers.
When he was putting up middling #s and winning two SBs, people were saying he was overrated and not even Top 10.......I think you're missing my point.
We've seen this before with him. The blocking has to be there, and it isn't consistently. It's impacting his play even when the rush doesn't get to him.
Yep, it's correctable, but we need to correct the OL.
To say he's hit the wall, after two bad games....is really a stretch.
As someone said on here last night, to argue now that he is now in the same class of QB as Brady, Rodgers, Brees, or even Roethlisberger is foolish...
...You can't be paid $18 million/year and play like a scared rookie in the pocket.
Yeah pretty much this. I love what Eli has done, but Giants fans have had him in a protective bubble from any criticism since 2011. He has been awful this year, its OK to say so.
He wouldn't be playing any more or less hard if he made $10M or $30M a year. His bro was playing while being all but completely broken down. The Mannings love to play football and want to win.
Sure, he wants to win. Everyone wants to win. But is he physically capable of leading the team to big wins anymore?
In some ways this is reminiscent of the arguments about whether to keep Coughlin. Yes, 2007 and 2011, and we will always love Eli for those seasons and he will always hold a special place in this franchise and and with all fans.
But it is now 2016. Is he even the same qb anymore? It sure doesn't look like it to me.
So please decide....is it best to rate a QB by stats or by wins? Cause you can't have it both ways.
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In comment 13167515 BillKo said:
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........when the Giants were winning Eli is good but he doesn't put the stats up that other guys do (and we'd point to QBs that essentially did in stat friendly/garbage time offenses...didn't win crap) when trying to rank him.
Now he's putting up the stats, but not winning.......and we are back to stats are for losers LOL
Ya can't win sometimes...............
That's actually exactly consistent. In both cases, people are saying that the stats are overrated; it's just that Eli has gone from a winner who put up middling numbers to a losing QB who has put up more impressive numbers.
When he was putting up middling #s and winning two SBs, people were saying he was overrated and not even Top 10.......I think you're missing my point.
In that case, that makes sense. You didn't actually say that in your post though so I misunderstood.
His two best years???? They won 12 games combined. !!! Two best years my ass. His two best seasons were 2008 and 2011.
Stats. Love those stats. Eli was Blake bortles NFC in 2014-2015. He threw 30tds and lost a ton of games. Big deal. I'm not saying Eli played poorly the last two years at all but his play didn't lead to win which means his stats should be taken with a grain of salt. And I said the reverse back in the good old days when Eli actually won games despite not posting gawdy stats. It's all about wins.
By the way Eli is on pace for a nice statistical season yet again. And he's played like dog shit.
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the Giants for 4 years?? He had his 2 best years the past 2 seasons. What the hell is he talking about?
His two best years???? They won 12 games combined. !!! Two best years my ass. His two best seasons were 2008 and 2011.
Stats. Love those stats. Eli was Blake bortles NFC in 2014-2015. He threw 30tds and lost a ton of games. Big deal. I'm not saying Eli played poorly the last two years at all but his play didn't lead to win which means his stats should be taken with a grain of salt. And I said the reverse back in the good old days when Eli actually won games despite not posting gawdy stats. It's all about wins.
By the way Eli is on pace for a nice statistical season yet again. And he's played like dog shit.
djm - you know Eli doesn't play defense right? We had the worst defense in NFL history last season. Do you understand that your 11 players on defense are half of the team? Or is Eli and the offense only responsible for losses? You're a moron.
It's a big problem. Eli is not the same player.
So please decide....is it best to rate a QB by stats or by wins? Cause you can't have it both ways.
and when you see that 9 or 10 of the TD's came in 2 games that we lost (again, not b/c of Eli) it cheapens the overall stats to me. Especially when I can think of other games where Eli and the O were instrumental in the loss.
Kind of like the running back who essentially gets pushed back or fails to pick up yards consistently but breaks off a bunch of big runs so that overall stats look good but the effect on helping the team sustain drives and win is minimal.
I am sure I am too far afield with this post as respects Eli.... I have no interest in diminishing his time here, but I also am not going to sit back and make excuses when it is fairly obvious he is hurting the team with his play so far in 2016.
I still don't get the point you're trying to make. You're essentially saying that even when Eli does his job really, really well, it's cheapened by the rest of the team not holding up their end of the bargain?
When the Giants lose games because of Eli's poor play, that's on Eli. When the Giants lose games despite Eli's great play, that's not on Eli. A loss does not cheapen a great performance by Eli. That's absurd.
I dont know if he is hurt, scared, or doesnt trust his line - but he deserves to see his way out of this. If this happens for 16 games, then we can revisit his status for next year. Put it bluntly, if Eli deserves to be benched or traded - there's abotu 15-20 others who deserve it as well.
Eli has regressed
Richburg has regressed big time
Flowers has been worse this year than last year
Tight ends are terrible.
It's a cumulative thing. When one player looks bad, the all look bad as a unit.
It's a big problem. Eli is not the same player.
djm - are you this obtuse? Eli had the best offensive line in football for about 4 years during that time.
So please decide....is it best to rate a QB by stats or by wins? Cause you can't have it both ways.
First of all, for the hundredth time, quarterbacks don't have Win-Loss records. (Pitchers in baseball do.)
Second of all, when a quarterback engineers TWO Super Bowl-winning drives and is awarded Super Bowl MVP twice, yeah that's a factor in gauging his greatness.
Third of all, who says you can't evaluate a quarterback based on both stats and postseason success?
But that does not seem to be the case this year. To my eye he has not been the same player. Something is out of whack.
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we had the WORST DEFENSE IN NFL HISTORY LAST SEASON. And yet - Eli was one of the main reasons we still had a fucking chance in about 8 games. Jesus.
But that does not seem to be the case this year. To my eye he has not been the same player. Something is out of whack.
Totally agree. But this year and the previous 2 are totally, completely, different entities.
You give a third string QB all that and he'll put up good numbers.
I expect better from Jordan.
but when it is pointed out that Eli actually led go -ahead or tying drives in the 4th quarters of games against the cowboys, Falcons, Saints, Panthers and Patriots - all games we lost the lead in, as well as the Jets game where our kicker missed a key FG, those games are also on Eli??
Maybe he's declining, I don't know, but I'll just repeat what was said above - basing his decline on saying he can't carry a team for the past four years when he has had more 4th quarter comebacks than almost any other QB is horseshit - especially knowing how historically bad the D has been.
No time to panic now. He will put it back together ...
He had a very public issue with Reese before ever signing on with ESPN and whatever the issue with Flowers is clearly didn't just start yesterday (he was conducting interviews with other reporters in calm, reasonable fashion until Ranaan approaching set him off enough to put hands on him) too.
He's seemingly burning source-bridges with how he's doing things in a really odd way for a guy who once claimed to be modeling himself after Garafolo. He better hope he has a future as a talking head/troll beyond actually reporting (which perhaps is connected to this LCD piece on Eli).
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YOu want to be really depressed about Eli? Watch clips of Eli from 05-2011 and really examine the pocket awareness Eli possessed back then. Watch the throws on 3rd down Eli would make after throwing an awful int one drive earlier. Watch how Eli ALWAYS made the first pass rusher miss or how he could slide in the pocket and make big boy throws that most qbs could only dream of. Then see his stats of 20-38 for 280 2 tds 2 ints and a fiends win. Then watch Eli after 2011 and tell me with a straight face Eli is playing well with those overrated stats of his.
It's a big problem. Eli is not the same player.
djm - are you this obtuse? Eli had the best offensive line in football for about 4 years during that time.
I was thinking the same thing. The Giants were running long routes down the field, and Eli would have time to scan the field.
There's really no scanning now, it's snap it and go to a spot (which is the WCO).
When his initial read isn't there, then it's usually a jailbreak and Eli needs to throw it away.
The neverending list of scapegoats for problems continues and every minute we spend doing that is another we could have spent focusing on what works.
OMG make it stop!! "I know Eli threw 5 TD's but we lost, so, um....He totally should have thrown 6!" SMFH
Is that Eli led the team back to lead or tie against the Cowboys, Falcons, Saints, Pats and Panthers and our K missed a FG to do the same against the Jets.
That's 6 games just from 2015 where eli and teh offense did their part. All losses. So couple those games with the 6 wins, and you have 12 games where the offense was in position to win or actually won.
So exactly how many times did eli and the O fail to show up?
I have concerns about Eli but this article is just so disgusting and disingenuous.
As for Eli, I have worries about him holding up over next few years and whether people want to admit it I'm not a believer he's going to age well to give us another four or five seasons. The OL worries me from the standpoint that it's been a thorn now for several years despite some draft pick investment (three high picks) and little progressive improvement as a unit in both run and pass coverage. Is it scheme or players or a mix or mess of everything.
By the time we get a good sturdy OL in place we may be waving goodbye to Eli.
shockeyisthebest8056 : 1:06 pm : link : reply
and instead of just saying that, Jordan tries to stretch it beyond all bounds of rationality. Since the start of 2014, here's the list of guys with more TD passes than Eli... Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees, Tom Brady, and Philip Rivers.
I expect better from Jordan.
The Season is far from over . The O-line can;t run block with
any kind of consistency . He doesn't have a Legitimate
threat at the TE position and basically 3 WR's who are
best suited for the slot . OBJ is a generational talent
that can get it done on the outside despite his stature .
Until we run the ball decently enough it will be more of the same defending us .
The NFL has caught on to Mac and his Offense he needs to
change that up and do it in a hurry .
Not sure how that gets done with the current O-line .
Hopefully we see more of Adams Davis and Perkins .
I think Davis can move the chains because of his size
and ability to win jump balls .
I am saying that some are looking at the entire season's worth of stats (in 14 and 15) and saying Eli had great years when the fact is that we were a losing team and there were plenty of games where Eli and the O played badly for long stretches and/or the entire game.
People want to point to the last few minutes of a bunch of games and say "oh, if only the defense was better..." but were there oppty's earlier in some of those games where the O could have put the game away and not had it come down to the last drive of the game?
And you know what, none of that even matters I suppose... (except in context of the linked article in the OP)... what matters is 2016 and no matter what metric you use (stats, W/L's, your eyes), Eli is playing very badly. In fact, he is contributing directly to the losses which you generally don't expect our of your "elite" franchise QB on any sustained level.
Unlike others here, I rarely make definitive statements like "Get rid of him", etc... but I am not afraid to wonder out loud if we are seeing the beginning of the end as respects Eli.
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so I am not blaming Eli but I am pointing out that despite alot of great stats the past 2 years, we were not winning and the Offense and Eli) failed to show up in big ways in several games.
Is that Eli led the team back to lead or tie against the Cowboys, Falcons, Saints, Pats and Panthers and our K missed a FG to do the same against the Jets.
That's 6 games just from 2015 where eli and teh offense did their part. All losses. So couple those games with the 6 wins, and you have 12 games where the offense was in position to win or actually won.
So exactly how many times did eli and the O fail to show up?
Stop making sense FatMan. Step away from the computer and come back in a few days when people start making valid points again and resume using logic.
I am saying that some are looking at the entire season's worth of stats (in 14 and 15) and saying Eli had great years when the fact is that we were a losing team and there were plenty of games where Eli and the O played badly for long stretches and/or the entire game.
People want to point to the last few minutes of a bunch of games and say "oh, if only the defense was better..." but were there oppty's earlier in some of those games where the O could have put the game away and not had it come down to the last drive of the game?
And you know what, none of that even matters I suppose... (except in context of the linked article in the OP)... what matters is 2016 and no matter what metric you use (stats, W/L's, your eyes), Eli is playing very badly. In fact, he is contributing directly to the losses which you generally don't expect our of your "elite" franchise QB on any sustained level.
Unlike others here, I rarely make definitive statements like "Get rid of him", etc... but I am not afraid to wonder out loud if we are seeing the beginning of the end as respects Eli.
I can tell you took a deep breath before writing that. The offense was 6th in yards entering last night's game. Turnovers is what cost us the Washington game. Eli played poorly against Minnesota and GB. I don't dispute that. Like others have said. Just relax for a second and give Eli a chance to turn the season around. If he plays poorly for an entire year, then we can start wondering about our next QB. Doesn't Eli deserve that?
but when it is pointed out that Eli actually led go -ahead or tying drives in the 4th quarters of games against the cowboys, Falcons, Saints, Panthers and Patriots - all games we lost the lead in, as well as the Jets game where our kicker missed a key FG, those games are also on Eli??
Maybe he's declining, I don't know, but I'll just repeat what was said above - basing his decline on saying he can't carry a team for the past four years when he has had more 4th quarter comebacks than almost any other QB is horseshit - especially knowing how historically bad the D has been.
Good post FMiC. Ranaan's full of shit, he exposed himself for what he is when he went at Reese, and yes, Reese made him look stupid.
You mention TO's against WASH - didn't Eli have 2 of them?
I am not running Eli out of town. I am not calling for his benching. He can and will play the entire year come hell or high water, so your wasting your breath asking me to give him a chance.
I will be as happy as any Giant fan if Eli goes on a tear and the rest of the team comes together and they win 9/10/11 games and make a run at the PO's. I just don't see anything beyond blind hope to suggest it will happen.
I mean Les is literally beating his chest because Eli is immobile and plays every week. The true fucking worst kind of fan there is. Defense gives up 30 points per game - well its Eli's fault that they arent scoring 31!
Just awful to be a fan now.
Lets just remain calm until then...
Hopefully when he is gone we can draft the andy daltons, ryan tannehills, ryan Fitzpatrick of the worlds.
When even dep can't find a way to defend your play, it's time for extreme hyperbole. Reading this nonsense, you'd think Eli was an undrafted rookie getting batteries throw at him.
Sorry if I didn't respond directed to anyone that responded to my earlier posts in this thread. Let's just hope everything moves along properly this season. I am concerned but It's far from over.
Maybe if a quarterback played better for the first 3 quarters their wouldn't be this need for 4th quarter theatrics
So who leads the league in failed forth quarter comebacks? Shouldn't we keep an eye on that?
All that said, it's important to remember that in life things rarely end the way you want them to. Eli has the 11th most pass attempts in the history of the league. If he retired today he will have had a very full career. He has a lot of miles on him: lots of hits, lots of ups and downs.
If he's worn down it would make all the sense in the world.
I'm not saying Eli is over the hill, but he's not playing that the level he was playing at last year, that's for sure. I think last year's Eli wins the Green Bay game for example.
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The shit he gets from his own city is ridiculous.
Hopefully when he is gone we can draft the andy daltons, ryan tannehills, ryan Fitzpatrick of the worlds.
When even dep can't find a way to defend your play, it's time for extreme hyperbole. Reading this nonsense, you'd think Eli was an undrafted rookie getting batteries throw at him.
see here's the problem. Everyone here knows Eli hasnt played well the last 10 quarters. In fact, its probably the worst he has played since his rookie year (and yes that includes 2013). So I think you and I and hopefully agrees he is in a rut and deserves the chance to get out of it.
But what do we have today? Our own beat writer blaming the last 4 years on Eli. Are you serious? Now I know thats not the opinion of the majority of those who have a clue with football. But heres what I noticed with a lot of giants fans. We have a lot (not all) who discredit Eli's two SBs because the defense played well, we had great WRs, a good OL, etc (not saying thats untrue - because everyone stepped up their game during those runs). But when we lose.... we have a TON of posters and now writers blaming Eli for years of the teams poor play. Then when someone says something positive about him..... we are defenders and the posters themselves are rational.
Eli is playing poorly right now. We can question some of his throws and decisions - no doubt about it. But instead of rallying around him, many just want to bury him. He's done, he's old, he's immobile, he makes too much...etc. Anyone who is betting against him hopefully looks foolish in the end.
If you look at QB's who had the chance to win a game on a last drive and failed, it looks like Drew Brees, Philip Rivers, and Colin Kaepernick were the worst in that regard the past two years.
Just for the record, Eli has the second most comebacks in the past four years.
It isn't considered a failed comeback if a QB leads a team to a lead and then the D gives it right back. I would think that doesn't have to be explained.
Maybe if the QB could put the petal to the metal for the first three quarters we wouldn't need these 4th quarter nail biters. But Eli has not been that type of QB that that goes for the jugular like some QB's. Instead of 4th quarter heroics lets measure game blowouts. What QB leads the league in that wonderful stat
Even last year, the Panthers blew some teams out, but did they take their foot off the gas against us? Does Cam not have the killer instinct?
I really don't know how somebody correlates a blowout with how good the QB is.
But you just single handily blamed Eli for all the loses this year in another thread. So is it a team game when they win and Eli's fault when they lose?
This...
He touches the ball the most so he can have the greatest affect on the team and the game. So yes his poor play is the biggest reason we are losing this season.
I know I'm not the only one seeing it because a number of you have commented on it.
As far as the Eli failing us for the last 4 years garbage. It's exactly what it is. Garbage. But I do hold him accountable, as a leader of the team, for the lack of focus of his teammates and not setting a higher standard. I don't know, maybe that's the coaching staff's job, but I haven't seen such chaos under Brady or Peyton-led teams.
He touches the ball the most so he can have the greatest affect on the team and the game. So yes his poor play is the biggest reason we are losing this season.
Actually that's quite false. Got any proof I ever said that? Cause there's proof of you blaming him for loses.
Watch clips of Eli in 2007 vs now. HE isn't the same player, OL problems and all.
Got any proof of the question I asked? Because if you are going to make statements without proof, you just look silly. I am a big defender of Eli.... however never have I once said he was the reason we won. Because no one player is ever responsible for a win nor is ever one player responsible for a loss. But I am sure you think football is an individual game so the point of discussing reasons for my beliefs is utterly hopeless with you.