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My Eli theory - he's hurt.

jcn56 : 10/10/2016 12:18 pm
Probably not unique, and might smell to some as homerism/defending Eli, but some on BBI would know I've been critical of the big guy when he messes up.

Reasoning - his mechanics look all off. Throws don't come out right. He used to have a few of these balls a game, as just a normal by-product of the way Eli plays. But now we're looking at a lot more of them, it seems like just about every throw Eli makes is over or under thrown, or behind receivers on short passes. Does a 13 year vet suddenly have mechanical issues? When that 13 year vet also has Archie and Peyton Manning in his family, I'd say no - if this was just tinkering by the staff I think Eli would've figured it out by now.

His pocket presence is definitely impacted; while I couldn't blame him, given the lack of protection, over the years he's done pretty well hanging in there and moving around when the pocket around him collapses (he's certainly had enough practice). Now we're seeing him throw the ball away a lot more frequently than he used to. Is he scared? I'd doubt it, given how long he's hung in with as bad or worse protection.

My guess - Eli, trying to protect his iron man streak and us from Nassib, is playing with a bruised shoulder or ribs, and his throws are all off. In an attempt to keep the injury from worsening, he's dumping the ball more quickly than normal. And after he took a couple of hits last night, the throws looked noticeably worse.

To me, Eli's always been a mercurial passer, making some throws where you'd say 'oh, c'mon man!' and wish he could take them back, while also hitting these extremely small windows that had you thinking 'how the hell did he fit it in there?'. Now, with his accuracy impacted, it seems like he can't make the tight throws, and the cover 2 coverage makes it impossible for him to get anywhere.

Does it sound unreasonable? Not trying to make excuses for Eli, it could just be bad protection and reverting to poor form, but it really doesn't look like the usual Eli out there, and if there's one thing he's been, it's consistent with his inconsistency.
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Danny Kanell : 10/10/2016 1:00 pm : link
There's definitely potentially some merit to this. He's been playing as if he's almost scared to hurt something worse and miss time.
He's been bad since the preseason.  
Dave in Hoboken : 10/10/2016 1:02 pm : link
Not buying it.
I think he may be hurt too. Look closely after the hit by the Skins  
Ivan15 : 10/10/2016 1:03 pm : link
You will see Eli grab his forearm or wrist and then quickly stop.

Seems like he is hiding an injury.
.  
Danny Kanell : 10/10/2016 1:06 pm : link
Anyone have a link to the clip of the hit he took against the Skins?
68% completions and 3 TDs against the Cowboys wasn't "bad."  
Mr. Bungle : 10/10/2016 1:07 pm : link
78% completions and 368 yards against the Saints wasn't "bad."

Holy shit.
Does not trust O-line  
Motley Two : 10/10/2016 1:09 pm : link
and the system and they way it's been run is not letting any type of rhythm to be established. No efficiency in getting the plays off in a timely manner and this team is inconsistently inconsistent. In the past he was at least able to have an idea of where to expect inconsistency. It's all over the place now.

Maybe, but tough to hide an injury  
oldutican : 10/10/2016 1:09 pm : link
to a player of Eli's status. Plus, aren't their penalties for doing that?
Eli hurt = Nassib uninjured  
I Love Clams Casino : 10/10/2016 1:09 pm : link
.
He's not hurt  
UberAlias : 10/10/2016 1:15 pm : link
He's not trusting this Oline.

Blindside pressure is brutal. He hears footsteps whether its there or not and he gets panicky after a couple seconds.
RE: Something isn't right  
Justlurking : 10/10/2016 1:15 pm : link
In comment 13167698 regulator said:
Quote:
the shot he took against WAS certainly could have something to do with it. Still, his footwork lately sucks and his internal clock seems to be way off.

This is as poor a stretch of football I've seen from Eli in a long, long time and it's very discouraging.


My brother said the same thing about the hit in the Redskins game. Does anyone have a clip of it? I havent seen it on replay (was in stadium but dont recall it). He definitely looks concussed lately.
Yip...I don't get the he's been bad all year comments...  
okiegiant : 10/10/2016 1:17 pm : link
He's been bad the last 9 quarters...somethings up.
I actually hope he is  
Mike in Long Beach : 10/10/2016 1:18 pm : link
.
No penalties..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/10/2016 1:19 pm : link
for guys who play.

Quote:
Maybe, but tough to hide an injury
oldutican : 1:09 pm : link : reply
to a player of Eli's status. Plus, aren't their penalties for doing that?


Injury lists are designations intended to say which players are not likely to play or are dealing with injuries that may keep a player out.

If Eli is confident he'll play and he's not being actively treated for an injury, the team is not under obligation to disclose it. Now if he's receiving treatment for something considered an injury or if he's gone for x-rays or an MRI, the team is supposed to declare that.

Quote:
The Practice Report provides clubs and fans with an accurate description of a players injury status and how much he participated in practice during the week. If any player has a significant or noteworthy injury, it must be listed on the practice report, even if he fully participates in practice and the team expects that he will play in the teams next game. This is especially important for key players whose injuries may be covered extensively by the media.

The Game Status Report provides clubs and fans with an accurate description of a players availability for the clubs next game. Teams must notify the league, their opponent, local and national media, and the leagues broadcast partners of the status of their injured players by 4 p.m. ET the day before their next scheduled game.
I can tell you this  
I Love Clams Casino : 10/10/2016 1:23 pm : link
with the one or 2 big hits Eli took last night, if he was hurt, I'd say the chances are that he aggravated it. If so, he may not be able to hold off on the "no treatment" thing
Agreed on the injury theory.  
map7711 : 10/10/2016 1:24 pm : link
Could that explain somewhat the fumbling????
His brother's neck injury came gainst the Redskins too if  
Brown Recluse : 10/10/2016 1:26 pm : link
I recall.
Eli..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/10/2016 1:26 pm : link
has always been fumble prone and probably will always remain fumble-prone.
RE: Agree. Said it last night  
AcidTest : 10/10/2016 1:27 pm : link
In comment 13167772 Fish said:
Quote:
That shot he took vs skins could have been the one.


Could easily be correct. He doesn't trust his OL not to let that happen again.
And I'll bet anything that  
Bill in UT : 10/10/2016 1:33 pm : link
Flowers' high ankle sprain has returned and the team is hiding it.
I don't think he's hurt either...  
BillKo : 10/10/2016 1:36 pm : link
I will say that I have sat in the new stadium since it opened, and my seats are endzone so I see all the throws Eli makes.

I've noticed, since about 2012, that his his throws are either slightly behind or behind in some cases. Now that's obviously not all throws, but many more than you'd expect. Even last night on the slants to OBJ, he was reaching back a bit.

Now, that combined with the shaky OL play, and I think you have the answer. Mechanics not right, and balls are now off the target more.

I do believe Eli will get back to playing good football....he's just in a slump right now. It happens.
RE: Yip...I don't get the he's been bad all year comments...  
BillKo : 10/10/2016 1:39 pm : link
In comment 13167834 okiegiant said:
Quote:
He's been bad the last 9 quarters...somethings up.


Maybe if we played Chicago or Cleveland, we would think differently.

I think we need to realize, teams with good DL's are going to still give us fits.

It doesn't matter what your receivers look like. You need to be able to control the LOS, and we simply are proving on Sunday's we can't do it right now.
Put me in the group that doesn't think he's hurt.  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 10/10/2016 1:41 pm : link
Hits, lack of trust in o-line, and the resulting mayhem that plays with his mechanics/willingness to stand in the pocket are the issues.
The zip accuracy  
Les in TO : 10/10/2016 1:44 pm : link
And fearlessness to step up in the pocket we have always associated with "good Eli" has been absent since he took that shot from baker. I'm not convinced Nassib is the heir apparent but if Eli continues down this path, give him a sit, perhaps for the London game, and the see how he is after the bye week.
@ Fat Man In Charlotte  
oldutican : 10/10/2016 1:45 pm : link
Thanks for the info. But if he is hurt,what about this? "If a player 'receiv(ed)treatment for something considered an injury or if he's gone for x-rays or an MRI, the team is supposed to declare that.' " If he is hurting, it would seem he would have had it diagnosed. It's just far fetched to me that an injury that really hampers his throwing could be kept secret.

The most obvious answer to his play is that this is not the first such funk in his career. I really respect Eli, but don't think he was ever an especially gifted athlete, and now he is older and he needs much better support to succeed. He should bounce back in future games, but it won't be enough to salvage this season.
Don't think he is hurt other than normal dings for a QB after 5 games  
SomeFan : 10/10/2016 1:47 pm : link
His passes seem fine as to velocity and tightness. Who could ever tell about his feet? The only thing he may have are sore ribs from that one hit he took this year. Only hit he ever took that hard that I recall was in his rookie year when even Archie commented about it.
There's ways around...  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/10/2016 1:49 pm : link
disclosing injuries. Let's just say he cracked a rib. Unless he tells the medical staff something is up, he can practice like normal then go get an x-ray on his own time and dime and or see his own doctor. Nothing prevents him from doing that and the team is none the wiser.

I'm not saying that is the case, but the team only has to disclose known injuries or things that are being treated as injuries, and even then the wording is somewhat vague - "If any player has a significant or noteworthy injury..."
RE: The zip accuracy  
I Love Clams Casino : 10/10/2016 1:59 pm : link
In comment 13167893 Les in TO said:
Quote:
And fearlessness to step up in the pocket we have always associated with "good Eli" has been absent since he took that shot from baker. I'm not convinced Nassib is the heir apparent but if Eli continues down this path, give him a sit, perhaps for the London game, and the see how he is after the bye week.


I don't care if Eli goes 0-168 with 0 TD's and 37 INT's....The Giants would NEVER do it....Ever.
I, too, think something could be wrong  
Mike in Philly : 10/10/2016 2:08 pm : link
as has been noted, it's been for the last 2 games or so. He's been streaky in the past, but his passes are off. Some its not even close, imho.
Billko, this is one reason I'm not ready to leap off the ledge...  
okiegiant : 10/10/2016 2:41 pm : link
The Vikings are very, vey good and it's hard to beat the Packers at home (coming off a bye no less and the Giants with a short week). They were in both games and with a few plays here or there it could've been different.

If Manning is on last night the Pack were in trouble. Maybe, just maybe, Apple, Thomas and DRC come back full strength and Manning gets things straight. It's a week to week league but they can't let too many more games get away.
.  
jlukes : 10/10/2016 2:41 pm : link
Kimberly Jones ‏@KimJonesSports 28s28 seconds ago

Ben McAdoo, asked if Eli Manning's accuracy issues are because of injury: "He's healthy as far as I'm aware."
Again I would say look at Rodgers stats last night.  
jsuds : 10/10/2016 2:47 pm : link
Eli had a better completion percentage and a better QB rating than Rodgers. When Rodgers missed he was WAY OFF; two int's and a few passes that were nowhere near their intended targets.

Eli had some bad throws too, but he was missing by less than Rodgers. He was behind the receiver a few times, or just overthrew the receiver a few times. He didn't miss by a mile.

I think there was some atmospheric condition at that stadium last night that made throwing very difficult.
RE: He will just will never be  
micky : 10/10/2016 2:48 pm : link
In comment 13167752 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
Dak Prescott


Sorry..this made me lol..thanks!
RE: .  
Mason : 10/10/2016 3:13 pm : link
In comment 13168008 jlukes said:
Quote:
Kimberly Jones ‏@KimJonesSports 28s28 seconds ago

Ben McAdoo, asked if Eli Manning's accuracy issues are because of injury: "He's healthy as far as I'm aware."


McAdoo is just a hater. LOL.

Seriously, I would buy the injury excuse if some of this stuff was new to Eli or hasn't been debated ad nauseam before on here and other places. Maybe he gets it together this season maybe he doesn't. But somehow using a phantom injury excuse just seems childish.
there is a real possibility that this is it guys  
gtt350 : 10/10/2016 3:36 pm : link
Time to draft a QB
RE: Again I would say look at Rodgers stats last night.  
BillKo : 10/10/2016 3:41 pm : link
In comment 13168020 jsuds said:
Quote:
Eli had a better completion percentage and a better QB rating than Rodgers. When Rodgers missed he was WAY OFF; two int's and a few passes that were nowhere near their intended targets.

Eli had some bad throws too, but he was missing by less than Rodgers. He was behind the receiver a few times, or just overthrew the receiver a few times. He didn't miss by a mile.

I think there was some atmospheric condition at that stadium last night that made throwing very difficult.


Rodgers was definitely off (give the Jints some credit) but I think Eli was off more. He missed two wide open guys (one for a walk in TD), and also threw behind about four other guys on balls that need to be completed.

Not comparing Eli to Brady, but remember when Brady played a couple bad games in a row? They were writing him and the Patriots off two years ago. This is the age we live in.

Man, Phil Simms would have been persecuted on BBI had it existed........he would play some horrid games.
I agree with this more so than an injury  
Bluesbreaker : 10/10/2016 3:46 pm : link
We've seen this before
Go Terps : 12:40 pm : link : reply
I don't think he's hurt. I think the line stinks and he's too aware of it. He's taken a few big shots so far this season, and he's reacting to pressure whether or not it's there.

That means bad footwork (always the first thing to look at with him) and throws that are off schedule, which are always going to look worse.
He does not have a chain mover right now at least a dependable
one . Hopefully Adams is a pass catcher he looks to be
a hell of a lot more fluid and has the size Eli sorely
lacks in a target .
Not to mention a Run game or competent O-line .
Can we keep all unproven theories  
Giants2012 : 10/10/2016 3:56 pm : link
and essays in one thread?
And yet it was a one score game again in the 4th qtr?  
shelovesnycsports : 10/10/2016 4:03 pm : link
One score and the Defense once again let the other team score.
I was thinking the same thing  
Scuzzlebutt : 10/10/2016 8:15 pm : link
I have a feeling he was injured by the big hit in the skins game. He hasn't been the same since. He looks jumpy in the pocket and a lot of balls seem to come out wrong.
as weird as it sounds, it's wishful thinking to believe Eli is hurt  
SHO'NUFF : 10/10/2016 11:24 pm : link
I know we want to make excuses, but the only explanation is he's hearing footsteps, even when they're not there.
Meds  
cznmike : 10/11/2016 5:26 am : link
Clearly Eli is in need of anti-anxiety medication. As John Riggins told Nancy Reagan, "Just relax, baby."
110.3, 104.1, 82.1, 63.3, 78.2  
Jonald : 10/11/2016 5:46 am : link
Those are Eli's QB ratings for the first 5 games. His completion percentage shows a similar drop off beginning in the Washington game:

67.9%
78%
65.8% (Wash)
55.6%
51.4%

Something isn't right.
I'll add that both Nehwouse and Jennings  
Jonald : 10/11/2016 6:50 am : link
were inactive beginning week 3. That may be a contributing factor as well.
That's an interesting theory.  
Sarcastic Sam : 10/11/2016 6:59 am : link
It's probably a lot more realistic than my theory that Eli was abducted by alien bodysnatchers and replaced with a fake Eli from a planet that doesn't play football under normal gravity conditions.
RE: That's an interesting theory.  
jcn56 : 10/11/2016 7:33 am : link
In comment 13168805 Sarcastic Sam said:
Quote:
It's probably a lot more realistic than my theory that Eli was abducted by alien bodysnatchers and replaced with a fake Eli from a planet that doesn't play football under normal gravity conditions.


That would really suck - if under a different gravitational pull alien Eli still fumbles the same damn way.
RE: 110.3, 104.1, 82.1, 63.3, 78.2  
Jimmy Googs : 10/11/2016 7:40 am : link
In comment 13168788 Jonald said:
Quote:
Those are Eli's QB ratings for the first 5 games. His completion percentage shows a similar drop off beginning in the Washington game:

67.9%
78%
65.8% (Wash)
55.6%
51.4%

Something isn't right.


Somebody mentioned the hit in the middle of the Redskins game where he was leveled. Maybe it really shook him up and he hasn't gotten over it...
RE: Something isn't right  
John in Loudoun : 10/11/2016 9:18 am : link
In comment 13167698 regulator said:
Quote:
the shot he took against WAS certainly could have something to do with it. Still, his footwork lately sucks and his internal clock seems to be way off.

This is as poor a stretch of football I've seen from Eli in a long, long time and it's very discouraging.


I was thinking the same thing last night. That was a violent hit. He hasn't played the same since. Not sure if its a mental thing or he's actually hurt, but he's not playing with any confidence. Quite honestly, I'm not entirely sure which is worse. I love me some Eli, but he's been hard to watch these past 2.5 games.
Is Farve a good comp for Eli?  
WideRight : 10/11/2016 9:26 am : link
I asked this on another thread, and obviously its for other's opinions, thats all.

But his recent play does remind me of Farve towards the latter half of his career.
Maybe once Favre  
pjcas18 : 10/11/2016 9:35 am : link
became immobile, and Eli never had a weak arm, but I don't think his arm was ever as strong as Favre's.

I think Roethlisberger is a better comp with Favre than Eli is.

People sometimes make the comp between Favre and Eli, and I think it's simply because both threw/throw a lot of interceptions.
if true, and Eli is hurt,  
SHO'NUFF : 10/11/2016 10:11 am : link
John Jerry is the one that derailed the season.
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