And before you start with the lame "Make It Stop" gifs, realize that two teams have fired their OCs already. The Bills have won three straight after letting Greg Roman go.
Also, consider that the Giants have already fired an OC midseason and I would say it worked out fairly well, considering the new OC led them to two SBs.
Sullivan has no track record of success. His second year at Tampa Bay, the offense was dead last in the NFL in total yards. He also lacks experience as a coordinator.
For the first part of his career, he was a defensive coach in college. He did not move to offense until he was with Coughlin in Jax.
I know the Giants wanted continuity and hired Sullivan because he had worked with Eli and was a Coughlin associate. It was not a bad idea but it just has not worked. Just like Flowers at LT is not working.
So, why not shake things up instead of letting the season go down the drain? This team as currently constituted is not making the playoffs. In fact, they will be lucky to finish near .500.
So, instead of being staid why not take a risk and do the following:
1. Fire Sulivan and replace him with an experienced OC who can help McAdoo avoid rookie mistakes.
2. Let the new OC call plays. McAdoo has shown he can't call plays and game mange at the same time.
3. Start Beatty at LT, move Flowers to RT and shift Hart inside to RG.
4. Get Perkins and Adams more touches. Yes, they are going to make mistakes but you need to take risks to reap rewards.
And just for the record, I'm not putting all the blame on Sullivan. I'm sure he is competent but he just is not working in this situation with a rookie HC. Sometimes you just need to admit you made a mistake and shake things up. This is the easiest way to do it and another franchise has already proven this season that it can work.
I'm also putting this out there for discussion. I know there are lots of reasons for staying the course. This would be a radical move and that is not generally the Giants way. But, really, what is the downside?
That is the question I always ask myself before a difficult decision in all aspects of life.
If anything, I'd suggest giving Sullivan the helm to the offense.
McAdoo is calling the plays. McAdoo needs to fire himself from that job and hand it over to Sullivan so he can start acting like a head coach.
I hear he makes some high quality H2O
If anything, I'd suggest giving Sullivan the helm to the offense.
It would be a raw deal but you have to think about what is best for the franchise.
I thought about that. I wonder if McAdoo's decision to call plays himself is a sign that maybe Sullivan was more of an organizational choice.
Further, he has a good staff. He needs to fire himself from play-calling. A good CEO knows when to fire himself from certain jobs and delegate that authority. McAdoo needs to learn quickly this lesson.
You can do the coaching carousel all you want. The team will have better results when Eli starts playing better or his replacement does.
Let's also not forget the red herring quality of this thread. Sullivan is taking the hit when he is not the playcaller; the HC is, which also indicates that Ben Mac is intimately involved in creating the game plan.
Made this point continually: Under McAdoo the Giants blow during prime-time games. The o-line gets Bogartrd. Eli plays skittishly , which is a moderate adverb choice . So he needs to clean that up.
The staff is young and the QB is an experienced veteran, that veteran must show leadership here or the ship be sinking
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else save Flaherty for forced on McAdoo.
They were not "forced" on anyone. If Ben Mac didn't want these people,he could have politely said "no". The owners have done what they could to make up for his lack of experience and network by surrounding him with people that have actual head coaching experience.
Let's also not forget the red herring quality of this thread. Sullivan is taking the hit when he is not the playcaller; the HC is, which also indicates that Ben Mac is intimately involved in creating the game plan.
I agree that "forced" is too strong a word. But when you a new hire with no experience, it is very difficult to really assert yourself. So, I think it is fair to say that McAdoo may have "gone along with" the guys the organization wanted to hire.
As allstar noted above, nobody here knows exactly how the hiring of coordinators went down. But I have hard time believing that if McAdoo had a completely free hand, Spags and Sullivan would have been his choices. Both are organizational choices
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In comment 13167867 Victor in CT said:
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else save Flaherty for forced on McAdoo.
They were not "forced" on anyone. If Ben Mac didn't want these people,he could have politely said "no". The owners have done what they could to make up for his lack of experience and network by surrounding him with people that have actual head coaching experience.
Let's also not forget the red herring quality of this thread. Sullivan is taking the hit when he is not the playcaller; the HC is, which also indicates that Ben Mac is intimately involved in creating the game plan.
I agree that "forced" is too strong a word. But when you a new hire with no experience, it is very difficult to really assert yourself. So, I think it is fair to say that McAdoo may have "gone along with" the guys the organization wanted to hire.
As allstar noted above, nobody here knows exactly how the hiring of coordinators went down. But I have hard time believing that if McAdoo had a completely free hand, Spags and Sullivan would have been his choices. Both are organizational choices
Many of them (Spags for example) also had longer contracts than Coughlin, which was dumb to start with, and it would have been expensive to zip the m all.
McAdoo also doesn't have the gravitas YET to disagree with, let alone defy management. He was a low level assistant until being named Off Co here.
Was Philbin really Ben's first choice?
On paper, it would look that way, given their history together.
Anish suggested that Sullivan is part of the play calling. Not sure what his exact reasons were but given his coaching experience, I think it is something to think about
Obviously not going to happen. But if circumstances were different, TC would make an excellent OC.
McAdoo is calling the plays. McAdoo needs to fire himself from that job and hand it over to Sullivan so he can start acting like a head coach.
I think so, McAdoo's clock management sucked on Green Bays final drive last night.
HoustonGiant : 2:17 pm : link : reply
Ben is HCINO, Head Coach in name only. He stays out of Spag's way and concerns himself with the offense.
That's not how the Giants have ever operated. We can question some of the hires, but they aren't an organization that would have a guy in charge in name only.
Utterly ridiculous.
If anything, I'd suggest giving Sullivan the helm to the offense.
This. I'm not sure what if any authority Sullivan has over anything. For all we know he might spend most of his time trying to coach Eli and the receivers.
I wanted wholesale changes - from GM on down... and essentially we only got rid of TC and a couple of assts.
I hate that Spags is still here.... and I hate that the stink of the last few years is still very much in the building.
The Product is not performing .
I have little faith anything drastic will happen during
the season . It rarely does with the Giants .
If we implode like 5-11 or worse more heads should roll .
The biggest thing he probably does is talk to Eli and relays inplay adjustments while MacAdoo is the head coach during the defensive series.
It works for some head coaches. Honestly you can't say how much Sullivan influences anything, but that hire stunk from the get go. Philben was at least a successful play caller before he stunk it up as a head coach.