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O'Hara and Diehl Giants' postgame comments on Flowers...

kinard : 10/11/2016 2:04 pm
... I was very surprised to see how candid both Diehl and O'Hara were in their criticism of Ereck Flowers after the game on Sunday night. O'Hara went so far to say: “Ereck Flowers is what in the business you call a coach killer."

Both former Giants went out of their way to call Flowers out on his piss poor pass blocking technique and Diehl mentioned that the one play when Flowers led with head and allowed the GB Defensive end to blow by him and take down Manning is essentially something they teach you not do in high school.

Obviously, both Diehl and O'Hara have deep connections with longtime Giants ex-offensive line coach Pat Flaherty who was jettisoned this year in favor of Mike Solari and those guys pretty much insinuated that Flowers was responsible for the change (which Flowers wholeheartedly endorsed in the off-season).

Pretty obvious that Eli (who had his own issues Sunday night and is good friends with both Diehl and O'Hara) has absolutely no trust in his LT. Just what McAdoo didn't need at this point of the season...
Link - ( New Window )
Think it's time to send him to timeout time  
DennyInDenville : 10/11/2016 2:07 pm : link
At RT

Get Beatty in there at LT

Stir the pot
He had technique problems in college,  
Renton : 10/11/2016 2:13 pm : link
which have continued in the pros. At what point will it click? Does he have a sack of rocks in his head or does he just not care?
I'm sorry but when Seubert says  
Now Mike in MD : 10/11/2016 2:16 pm : link
"it finally showed up and cost them a game tonight" regarding Flowers andtechnique he loses some credibility. To pin that entire loss on Flowers is absurd
If this is true  
Gman11 : 10/11/2016 2:16 pm : link
Quote:
Once Newhouse returns from his calf injury, he may be a better option than Flowers at this point.


Then the NFL needs an intentional sack, like baseball's intentional walk. Save Eli the trouble of getting tackled.
Flowers  
Nomad Crow on the Madison : 10/11/2016 2:25 pm : link
Sounds like a head case. His resistance to coaching should have shown up in college. The Giants had to know that he was a bonehead. Why in the name of all that is holy did they waste a pick on this turkey?
It's all in the transcript  
ghost718 : 10/11/2016 2:25 pm : link
When Raanan didn’t move, Flowers moved his face close to the reporter’s and asked, “You hear me?”

Flowers: “Get the (expletive) out of my face, bro.
That about sums it up  
ghost718 : 10/11/2016 2:26 pm : link
.
Flowers  
hassan : 10/11/2016 2:28 pm : link
Is sloppy and does not want to work hard from the comments made by his line mates. I personally hate his pick ...... He can still be productive but he's not a franchise lt.

Anyone counting flowers as an asset is reading pff too much...
Another key young Giant under fire  
JonC : 10/11/2016 2:36 pm : link
They need to respond like professional men at some point.
RE: Another key young Giant under fire  
Go Terps : 10/11/2016 2:38 pm : link
In comment 13169511 JonC said:
Quote:
They need to respond like professional men at some point.


Saying something like that is a sure way to get a list of excuses related to them being 20-something year old kids.

Didn't Pugh or Richburg make some comment  
mfsd : 10/11/2016 2:39 pm : link
over the summer about Flowers having a bad attitude with Flaherty?
He might have some sort of social  
phil in arizona : 10/11/2016 2:40 pm : link
disorder.
Problem with  
eliapple : 10/11/2016 2:41 pm : link
TC and Mac is that don't make changes w starters.
OBJ hasn't been yelled at by coach in a game. Eli should have been benched a few times in 10 years. Flowers should be
put on RT for a game to see how he does.
flip side of Jon's and GT's comments  
ColHowPepper : 10/11/2016 2:42 pm : link
might be where are the men, or the man, to read these guys the riot act in a come to Jesus session and have them take it all in.

TC failed to do that last year and that helped spring Odell to this year.
how did we end up drafting  
ArcadeSlumlord : 10/11/2016 2:45 pm : link
this piece of shit?
Kind of tired  
jvm52106 : 10/11/2016 2:49 pm : link
of hearing some folks just defend Giants because they are Giants... if Flowers were on another team we would be laughing our asses off at the pick. I am no expert on LT technique but man I have been watching football, following football, calling football games and at times have even broken film down and I can easily see looking at Flowers just how awkward and off balance he seems even before the snap. He is so intent on trying to jump back and cut off a pass rush that he leaves even the slightest of DE's or LB's the perfect angle to push his massive body backwards or to quickly dive under him making him have to grab at the head and shoulders of the defender. He looks completely lost.

When size and power are your strengths you can't use techniques and positioning that basically counter act or negate those strengths. Flowers does that very thing. He looks awful out there.

Is he the reason they lost Sunday night? No, of course not. But, he sure was one of the reasons they offense failed and his inability to be the physical leader on that line is hurting elsewhere.

The Giants have next to nothing in terms of blocking from our TE's, yet we are now needing them to stay close To Flowers and chip before heading out for the pass as he gets beat too quickly off the snap without it. Eli has no choice but to bail quickly on the protection from his side because he knows Flowers will get beat..

This was a bad pick for the spot we were in and now the Gmen must decide how long do we wait for him or do we move him to RT, where his problems in technique can be masked better.
One would have to assume  
Old Dirty Beckham : 10/11/2016 3:06 pm : link
Will Beatty is not physically able to play. If he can they should give him a shot to play and keep Flowers on the sideline until he proves his technique is better in practice.

Just throwing him to RT mid season isnt going to work. Right now he's not one of the best five linemen on this team. Can anyone really argue against that?
RE: Problem with  
Old Dirty Beckham : 10/11/2016 3:07 pm : link
In comment 13169525 eliapple said:
Quote:
TC and Mac is that don't make changes w starters.
OBJ hasn't been yelled at by coach in a game. Eli should have been benched a few times in 10 years. Flowers should be
put on RT for a game to see how he does.


Perhaps the worst post I've seen on here, ever.

Mac doesnt make changes to starters? How do you know that? He's been a HC for five games.

Eli should have been benched a few times in ten years?

outside of poor technique  
bc4life : 10/11/2016 3:08 pm : link
what do we KNOW about him?

Lot of speculation on this thread
RE: outside of poor technique  
Mr. Bungle : 10/11/2016 3:13 pm : link
In comment 13169561 bc4life said:
Quote:
what do we KNOW about him?

Lot of speculation on this thread

We know that he shoved a reporter?
RE: outside of poor technique  
Devon : 10/11/2016 3:15 pm : link
In comment 13169561 bc4life said:
Quote:
what do we KNOW about him?

Lot of speculation on this thread


We know, from multiple reports, there was some sort of issue between him and Flaherty.

We also know, from Richburg and Pugh comments, there was unnamed OL that wasn't working as hard as he/they should have.
IKN why they won't just put Beatty at TE like his rookie season  
Giants2012 : 10/11/2016 3:19 pm : link
Actually, put any OL at TE so help stabilize the line. They have three so,is receivers. That should be enough
F'ing spell check  
Giants2012 : 10/11/2016 3:20 pm : link
Solid receivers

Let's get an edit button already :)
You guys crack me up  
EJJ : 10/11/2016 3:20 pm : link
Just last week I was reading how well the O line played against the Vikings. In the past Flowers was playing with a chip is n his shoulder and he brings attitude to the line. Now he's garbage. Is he immature maybe, does he need coaching absolutely give the guy a chance this was his worst game see how he responds.
Apparently, Flowers threatened another guy..  
Dave in Hoboken : 10/11/2016 3:21 pm : link
Guy clearly has some issues. Ugh. What a disaster this guy is.
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RE: Apparently, Flowers threatened another guy..  
Old Dirty Beckham : 10/11/2016 3:24 pm : link
In comment 13169580 Dave in Hoboken said:
Quote:
Guy clearly has some issues. Ugh. What a disaster this guy is. Link - ( New Window )


Schwartz commenting on it makes my blood boil.
RE: Apparently, Flowers threatened another guy..  
Giants2012 : 10/11/2016 3:25 pm : link
In comment 13169580 Dave in Hoboken said:
Quote:
Guy clearly has some issues. Ugh. What a disaster this guy is. Link - ( New Window )


F the media. Look at how they've handled every situation on another stage for over a year.
RE: how did we end up drafting  
GiantTerp79 : 10/11/2016 3:28 pm : link
In comment 13169535 ArcadeSlumlord said:
Quote:
this piece of shit?


Because we have a GM that thinks he's the smartest guy in the room. Go down his list of "projects" Clint Sintim, Marvin Austin, Ramses Barden, lets not forget when we TRAED UP to get Sinorce Moss. He knows talent like I know Mandarin (FYI I don't know Mandarin). Worse yet, Mara trusts him. I'd trust my daughter at an unsupervised post-prom house party before I trust Reese to make a pick that can be counted on as a building block of this team.
I don't care for the media,  
Dave in Hoboken : 10/11/2016 3:28 pm : link
but you can't go around threatening people and pushing them. We're not animals here. The guy is a walking disaster.
Hope we get another Flowers thread  
Giants2012 : 10/11/2016 3:28 pm : link
for each and every source of info rather than keep it in one.

RE: RE: how did we end up drafting  
Old Dirty Beckham : 10/11/2016 3:41 pm : link
In comment 13169591 GiantTerp79 said:
Quote:
In comment 13169535 ArcadeSlumlord said:


Quote:


this piece of shit?



Because we have a GM that thinks he's the smartest guy in the room. Go down his list of "projects" Clint Sintim, Marvin Austin, Ramses Barden, lets not forget when we TRAED UP to get Sinorce Moss. He knows talent like I know Mandarin (FYI I don't know Mandarin). Worse yet, Mara trusts him. I'd trust my daughter at an unsupervised post-prom house party before I trust Reese to make a pick that can be counted on as a building block of this team.


He didnt trade up for Sinorce Moss. Accorsi did.

A  
AcidTest : 10/11/2016 3:52 pm : link
lot of teams wanted Flowers. The Rams would have taken him if we didn't IIRC.

His technique and footwork have to improve. But it's still early in this season, and his career.
Devon  
bc4life : 10/11/2016 4:08 pm : link
Not sure we know that, when questioned they were not specific.

If he should be a Rt, so be it - but a lot of side bar issues that people don't really know - just regurgitating rumor, etc.
RE: RE: RE: how did we end up drafting  
GiantTerp79 : 10/11/2016 4:14 pm : link

He didnt trade up for Sinorce Moss. Accorsi did.
[/quote]

You're right, my bad, but you can easily replace with Damontre Moore or several others. I had to look back at how long ago that was.
RE: Devon  
Blackbeard : 10/11/2016 4:21 pm : link
In comment 13169677 bc4life said:
Quote:
Not sure we know that, when questioned they were not specific.

If he should be a Rt, so be it - but a lot of side bar issues that people don't really know - just regurgitating rumor, etc.


How much convincing do you need?
The guy stinks and contributed greatly to the loss.
He was arguably the worst player on The Giants on Sunday.
Like I said, an unknown player.  
Devon : 10/11/2016 4:24 pm : link
It's a fairly safe assumption who they meant though at this point.

The Flaherty stuff was reported by enough sources that it's highly unlikely to be untrue.
more  
bc4life : 10/11/2016 4:24 pm : link
had a bad game, knew he was technique project when they drafted him. and he just switched position coaches this off season.
RE: Flaherty  
bc4life : 10/11/2016 4:26 pm : link
Didn't Richburg basically say he received little to no coaching after being drafted and pretty much had to learn on the fly? What does that say about Flaherty? Maybe it's accurate, maybe not.
RE: Flowers  
Kivorkian : 10/11/2016 4:29 pm : link
In comment 13169494 Nomad Crow on the Madison said:
Quote:
Sounds like a head case. His resistance to coaching should have shown up in college. The Giants had to know that he was a bonehead. Why in the name of all that is holy did they waste a pick on this turkey?


Simple answer. Jerry Reese.
Flowers  
Dragon : 10/11/2016 4:50 pm : link
Had a bad game not happy about his reaction in the locker room but guess what he's not the first player to have a confrontation with the press. This to shall pass but what happens with the OL from this point is critical to me he just does not look like a LT maybe not even an NFL tackle. Is Beatty ready to play or Pugh better at guard than LT they have some options right now it's time to shake up the line. Eli will need to help them can't have all these audibles in the next games call the play run it help your questionable OL.
RE: RE: Flaherty  
giants#1 : 10/11/2016 4:53 pm : link
In comment 13169714 bc4life said:
Quote:
Didn't Richburg basically say he received little to no coaching after being drafted and pretty much had to learn on the fly? What does that say about Flaherty? Maybe it's accurate, maybe not.


Could be an indictment against the CBA. If you're not a starter (which he initially wasn't), there aren't many snaps to go around.
He should be at RT  
jeff57 : 10/11/2016 4:57 pm : link
.
RE: RE: Flaherty  
BigBlueinChicago : 10/11/2016 5:01 pm : link
In comment 13169714 bc4life said:
Quote:
Didn't Richburg basically say he received little to no coaching after being drafted and pretty much had to learn on the fly? What does that say about Flaherty? Maybe it's accurate, maybe not.


His comments came as part of the offensive line forum at the Bentley Camp for lineman he took part in. You have the read the whole story and see everyone's answers to draw a better conclusion than isolating it to a sentence here or there.

I got his general point, but to some it might come off as something else. So context is important.

Quote:
Is technique taught in the NFL?

Richburg: There isn't much teaching going on at all. It's kind of sink or swim. That's why I am here.

Link - ( New Window )
RE: RE: Flowers  
GiantTerp79 : 10/11/2016 5:06 pm : link
In comment 13169719 Kivorkian said:
Quote:
In comment 13169494 Nomad Crow on the Madison said:


Quote:


Sounds like a head case. His resistance to coaching should have shown up in college. The Giants had to know that he was a bonehead. Why in the name of all that is holy did they waste a pick on this turkey?



Simple answer. Jerry Reese.



Bingo! We have talent evaluators and a GM that should have been fired three years ago.
The more enlightening answer  
BigBlueinChicago : 10/11/2016 5:16 pm : link
to the same question Richburg answered came from Chance Warmack of the Titans.

Quote:
Warmack: What is good technique? Even if you have coaches who want to implement the techniques, it's not the right way. You do the same thing 1,000 times and it's wrong. Then you get in the game and they want me to block an All-Pro three-technique and you've been doing the same thing that's wrong since April. And it's October, and you get torn out the frame (on film). It's your fault. Not his fault. It's our fault.


So when you think about it, the coaches can't baby all the players and if there are things players should already know going in and have to be taught (essentially what Richburg said), that player is screwed and already behind everyone.

And what if the technique being taught is one that is not comfortable with the person on the other end of the teaching?

Much like when we all were in school, some teachers were great and some were not. Let's not make the NFL coaches out to be Ph.D's.

Some of us learned a different way and at a different pace than others. Some had things that worked for them that may not work for someone else. It's almost impossible to apply one technique/standard and expect everyone to follow it.

BigBLue  
bc4life : 10/12/2016 7:18 am : link
Thanks, it's been a while since I read that article. It wasn't like he was intentionally ripping Flaherty.

And, yes CBA might have something to do with it.
Except for Flowers, Reese has been very successful with  
Ira : 10/12/2016 8:27 am : link
first round picks. It's time for Flowers to have to earn his playing time. Beatty has been back for a few weeks now and should be ready for action.
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