WOW! Just saw that JPP + OV have the most QB hurries among ANY DE Duos in the NFL!
Thats crazy and would have never guessed that. They just have to start getting home!
I guess serious credit due to the packers OL?
Either way happy we coming home off two VERY tough games to play Baltimore this weekend in what is IMO a MUST WIN.
dallas on the road vs GB and either skins or eagles have to take a loss considering they are playing each other. chance to gain a game on TWO of the Three in front of us in the division.
Like just dead stopped in their tracks.
How can this be?
http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/defensive-hurries/2016/ - ( New Window )
a hurry is an NFL statistic so i guess we would have to find the NFL's definition
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a hurry is an NFL statistic so i guess we would have to find the NFL's definition
while hurries are definitely positive, we need more impact plays from the D. sacks, interceptions, forced fumbles. hopefully with a healthier secondary we will start to see those money plays.
Based on that list, they're both tied for 4th in the league, which would easily make them the best "duo" (assuming that site's accurate).
Do we lead the league in most pass attempts against?
This. We need more pressure up the middle. Spags should up the dosage of A Gap blitzes.
Falcons - 214
Chargers - 211
Giants - 206
Giants have ~5-7 more passing plays against them than the average.
Texans are #1 for non-bye teams with 144
To put that into perspective, the 2nd worst team in terms of this is the Colts, who get a negative play from there defense on the QB once every 24.3 pass attempts.
This is insane.
You would rather send another guy into pressure the QB versus bouncing off Randall Cobb 10 yards down the field?
We knew that Snacks did not pass rush. He was a 2 down lineman with the Jets.
this
Vernon and jpp ain't the problem but it would help if they'd got a big play or two under their belts.
If you're listing the most important players on the Giants, those guys are #3 and #4. And they ain't getting it done.
The OP said as a duo. So their combined number is evidently more than any other DE teammates. That's astounding, I feel like I could count them on 1 hand combined.
Now you can only look at a few plays with a lot of time for QB, mention the lack of sacks, and think you know what you're talking about. Or you can consider the overall play of both Vernon and JPP, consider play vs the run, and QB pressures, and maybe not come to the conclusion they suck, were a waste of money, or are the primary problems here. They aren't.
Eli and the OL are the reasons the team isn't sitting here with a better record.
The defense has been very good. The DL and DBs. We have some here crying about lack of INTs as a sign that our DBs are a problem. It's laughable to evaluate a group like that after 4 games. Same with sacks. I just saw Joey Bosa pick up 2 sacks this week. He's awesome right!!!!! Of course both sacks came after about 5 seconds while the QB fell into his lap. But he has 2 sacks. Hes on pace for double digits this year!
The free agents and young draft picks (especially Collins, Behre, Thompson and Apple when they were healthy) have been excellent. Again, the D and the DL (especially JPP and Vernon) is not the problem with this team.
If you're listing the most important players on the Giants, those guys are #3 and #4. And they ain't getting it done.
This. There were several plays where the cameras showed Vernon and JPP playing patty cake while the OL stuffs them 1 v 1. The weak ass spin move by Vernon was a nice touch.
It couldn't possibly have been more obvious. Give me a break already.
Now you can only look at a few plays with a lot of time for QB, mention the lack of sacks, and think you know what you're talking about. Or you can consider the overall play of both Vernon and JPP, consider play vs the run, and QB pressures, and maybe not come to the conclusion they suck, were a waste of money, or are the primary problems here. They aren't.
Eli and the OL are the reasons the team isn't sitting here with a better record.
The defense has been very good. The DL and DBs. We have some here crying about lack of INTs as a sign that our DBs are a problem. It's laughable to evaluate a group like that after 4 games. Same with sacks. I just saw Joey Bosa pick up 2 sacks this week. He's awesome right!!!!! Of course both sacks came after about 5 seconds while the QB fell into his lap. But he has 2 sacks. Hes on pace for double digits this year!
The free agents and young draft picks (especially Collins, Behre, Thompson and Apple when they were healthy) have been excellent. Again, the D and the DL (especially JPP and Vernon) is not the problem with this team.
The defense as a whole has played good enough to be 5-0. That doesn't mean JPP and Vernon are above scrutiny.
They're both being paid to be playmakers, especially Vernon. They aren't making enough.
Maybe I'm spoiled seeing Osi, Strahan, Tuck, Robbins, and 5 fingered JPP, but those guys made a hell of a lot more plays with way less talent behind them in the secondary.
I'm talking 5 games in and the DL has been fine. A strength actually including the DL.
Check out those scout comments from the GB paper. Said he was playing both pass and run at a high level. That's what I see. And you have number of sacks as your constant rebuttal.
This guy or you quoting sack numbers or a few plays where they did what...played "patty cake"....Who has it right?
Why? Because what he is doing brings value to the team. It's that simple but you refuse to recognize any of it.
And after five games the extent to which I was right is about as significant as the amount of time Rodgers has to throw the ball on Sunday.
JPP was marginally better and at this point the better DE.
You called us "dopes" for believing the free agents have helped? Or were good signings? That's BS plain and simple.
The dope is the guy who doesn't see it after 5 games. This defense was one of the worst in leave history last year. The front office made a number of good moves to fix to wth FA and draft picks. The improvement on defense has been enormous in one year. Whos the dope here?
The back 7 is very athletic and can matchup with 3-4 WR sets now. They need to work on generating some pressure outside of JPP and Vernon because they are the only guys doing it to this point.
The defense and DL have been a big part of the solution. Your boy Eli needs to play much better. You want to cherry pick plays form GB? Plenty of missed opportunities form Eli in that one and every game this year.
OL has been a problem too. Problem so far this year is the OL and QB. Not the money spent on the DL or anybody on the defense.
My main beef around here is the treatment of JPP. He plays his ass off and has been a 2 way force this season: yes Qb pressures are impact plays!
Vs GB he was a beast vs the run. Controlling his side like he used to. And shedding blocks and making plays. Pass rush vs GB was an issue at times . But part of that was the QB.
Spags has to do better finding others to get pressure.
That isn't what happened, and now we're pointing to QB hurries as a rationalization and hoping that Will Beatty of all people saves the day.
That isn't what happened, and now we're pointing to QB hurries as a rationalization and hoping that Will Beatty of all people saves the day.
Eli is one of the least sacked QB's, and has not been playing well. I'm guessing QB hurries largely has to do with that, but it's not an important stat when it goes against your agenda.
Pierre-Paul, who gets held a lot (like on the SB46 hail mary), better but not great. Spags needed to blitz more and spy Rodgers on 3rd down.
Flacco has decent legs too so they will need to get pressure. I don't watch Baltimore much so haven't seen their Oline this year.
Link - ( New Window )
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Money spent on the DL is money that could have been spent much more efficiently and effectively on the OL and elsewhere on the offense to assist the team's two best players.
That isn't what happened, and now we're pointing to QB hurries as a rationalization and hoping that Will Beatty of all people saves the day.
Eli is one of the least sacked QB's, and has not been playing well. I'm guessing QB hurries largely has to do with that, but it's not an important stat when it goes against your agenda.
That says nothing for the impotent performance of JPP and Vernon. My agenda is calling it like I see it, not the way I want it to be.
And if you don't think there's a group of posters here who will only say good things about the team because they're "fans" you're kidding yourself. Those people do more damage to the discussion on this board than the trolls.
Instead they added quality players on defense in FA and it has been a positive for the team.
It's not a rationalization of anything. QB hurries and pressures are impact plays. End of story. If you don't see it that way you simply don't understand what you're watching. The simpleton points to sacks.
On pace for 6 sacks? Thanks for that.
On pace for 6 sacks? Thanks for that.
Well aren't they?
Eli is playing like shit. I haven't said otherwise. Again, nothing to do with our defensive ends.
Please, you're the high expectations asian dad meme of this board. Players are either too demonstrative, or not quite elite enough for your taste. My point on Eli is that is a take from many apologists, not you per se. Where are all these sacks against Eli since our OL is so shitty? Quick release or not, they should be there, right?
I heard Mike Lombardi on Bill Simmons's podcast a couple weeks ago make an interesting point. He said that sacks are a result of coverage (QB holds ball too long), and turnovers are a result of pressure (QB makes poor throw/decision under duress, fumbles, etc.).
To this point the Giants have had success doing neither. Their two picks of Rodgers were, incredibly, the first two turnovers forced by the defense thus far this season. And both of those picks had to do with Rodgers being uncharacteristically inaccurate at times this season.
By any measure the defensive ends are not making an impact in the passing game. They certainly aren't making the impact you would expect from two players making so much money. Actually, I believe Vernon's cap hit is low this year...so we have that expense to look forward to in future years. Awesome.
What is a hurry? Is it still considered a hurry if the qb completes the pass?
found this:A quarterback hurry is counted when a defender either forces a quarterback out of the pocket or pressures the throw. It doesn't necessarily mean that the defender actually forced the quarterback to make a bad throw.
[/quote]By any measure the DE are not impacting the passing game?[/quote]
That is a just a horseshit comment.
Doomster you can give up to? A guy gets QB pressure but a QB makes a play and completes a ball? Guess what? That's still a good play by the pass rusher.
Sometimes the other guy makes a play WHILE AT THE SAME TIME the defender is doing a good job.
The pass rush was shaky but Rodgers also bought time and i have a hard time blaming the best pass rushers on the team for the psss rush struggles. Where's Hankins? Where's the edge LB? Where's the well time blitz? Where the hell is Owa?????
We have two good pass rushers on this team and by season's end their sack numbers will probably be there. We need two more pass rushers.
Youre gonna kill jpp and Vernon and that's cool. But there are about 10 things wrong with the Giants right now. Jpp and Vernon aren't playing great but they aren't THE problem.
Jpp was great in 2014 but you ignore that every time. That's cool too. Just like you ignore that QB hurries indicate that the DEs are close to getting home. Hurries don't necessarily equate to success but it's a sign that the DE's are capable and able bodied. More often than not the hurries do less to bigger and better things. It's also been only five games. No one was killing the D after two weeks and even the skins game was more mistakes than lack of D.
Everyone needs to play better on this team. Can we agree on that? Two guys that appear to be close to making game changing plays are Vernon and jpp.
These two guys are supposed to be, with Eli and Beckham, the backbone of the team.
Sunday night is beyond rationalization. It was picked up by the cameras time and again because the NBC broadcasters KNEW going in that they hadn't performed in the first four games and they were going to be a focal point of the coverage as a result.
It was poor throughout the game with moments bordering on the embarrassing. It could not have been more clear.
They are, as much as anyone else, THE problem.
Carry on.....
Doomster you can give up to? A guy gets QB pressure but a QB makes a play and completes a ball? Guess what? That's still a good play by the pass rusher.
But people are trying to equate pressures with sacks, and they are not....a DE gets a pressure, but the qb still completes the pass...a qb gets sacked, he doesn't complete the pass....big difference....
Reese? Doubt it
Until they get the big stops in the big spots, they suck.