I am sorry this is so long, and sorry to be starting another OBJ discussion. But my thoughts were too long to include in the existing posts.
I’d be the first to say I am an unapologetic OBJ defender. That said. I think the criticism of some of his actions are warranted (the Panthers game from last year and some cheap shots observed this year. However due to the legitimate criticism he has received, the level of criticism of OBJ has reached an unreasonable level. I cite the following:
- The emotional meltdown during the Redskins game and hitting the net with his helmet. I understand that everyone wants to see the young man exercise complete composure at all times, but let’s be fair. Plenty of players, including hall of fame players, got emotional on the sidelines in similar fashion. It’s one thing to say he should stay composed, it’s another to label him as a distraction or a selfish player because of this particular behavior.
- His “taunting” penalty during the Vikings game. In addition to being a poor call by the official, OBJ had been hit late out of bounds, which was not called, and he was reacting to that hit. Also, I fail to see how that was taunting. OBJ was trying to get the official’s attention, not going after the defensive player. He did try to exact a little revenge on the next play, which in my opinion should have been flagged.
- And yesterday. I know people are tired of the thing with the net, and I could do without it. But I think we have to accept that this is OBJ’s way of getting back at the critics for what he sees as some unfair scrutiny when you consider that plenty of players do the same things he does and don’t receive the same treatment from the national sports media. I mean, he isn’t the first or the last player to have an outburst on the sideline and use his equipment to express that frustration. As far as removing the helmet penalty, I would argue he had stepped out of the endzone and therefore was no longer in the field of play, but the rules are the rules. Not going to make excuses for him there. As far as the post TD sideline antics go, he just scored the game winning TD on 4th and 1, and took his chest thumping strutting celebration to the sideline (where it belongs) and kept it out of the endzone.
National media is acting like OBJ is the first skill player to celebrate loudly after big plays. Anyone notice this kind of thing has been going on for 30 years? Why is OBJ proposing to the net on the sideline somehow worse than Antonio Brown’s twerking in the endzone? My basic point is there are things we can and should be critical of OBJ for, and then there are other instances where we (fans and media) are far too critical. As much as you don’t like the net stuff, doesn’t it seem like the sports media is more outraged about it than OBJ teammates are?
Last night Rodney Harrison said OBJ had “potential”, ok Mr. Harrison, I think we are beyond potential at this point. And Tony Dungy, a man I respect, said OBJ has to stop hurting his team with penalties like removing his helmet after the TD. While I concede the act was a penalty, let’s be fair. Did anyone catch Rob Gronkowski’s actions yesterday? Now, to be honest, I love me some Gronk. He is a monster, plays like a bull in a china shop, seems to never take a play off, and is near impossible to stop. I would love to see him in NYG Blue. But, Gronk is a bit off…mentally, and we all know this. We have accepted it. In fact, most of us love it, even when he is in the wrong.
Anyone remember his off the field antics and partying early in his career, when he explained to the New Patriot organization that his partying and blowing off steam helped him play better. And they said ok, just don’t do anything to hurt the team. Anyone read “It’s Good to be Gronk.” A book that details Gronk’s exploits in all facets of his life, some of which are not fit for young ears. Gronk’s antics are almost treated as humorous and loveable, his book was greated as fun and enjoyable. I have no problem with that. Gronk is a great player, he is who is, and is good for the game.
Yesterday during the Pats-Bengals game, Gronk repeatedly taunted the Bengals defense, including a player who got injured attempting to tackle the massive TE. For a while it looked like Gronk and Bengals LB Vontaze Burfict were going to fight. Gronk drew a 15 yard penalty, and later said he needed to avoid those types of penalties. I think we all understand things get heated and emotional on the football field, and players like Gronk and OBJ care about winning. Even when they are drawing attention to themselves they care about winning. What I don’t understand, is why OBJ’s actions yesterday are a bigger media story than Gronk’s actions? Is it because Gronk is a Patriot and has a ring? Is it because half the reason people love Gronk is because he has developed a caveman like persona and lives up to it? Is it because the Patriots win more than the Giants? Do we have more respect for the 6’6” 260lb TE who plays physical, than the 5’11” 195lb WR who plays a finesse game.
Why is it nearly overlooked by national media when one taunts an injured player and almost gets in a fight, and we can’t get enough of what are at worst silly sideline antics with a net and a foolish (but not malicious) removal of the helmet penalty after a game winning TD.
I’m a Giants fan, so I am biased, but I really am curious why OBJ draws far more media attention than Cam Newton’s pouty press conference, Brown’s lewd dancing in the endzone, or Gronk taunting an injured player and almost starting a brawl. Do I think OBJ is under an unfair spotlight? Yes I do. Do I think he helped put it there? Yes I do. Do I think other players are getting away with even worse behavior? Absolutely I do.
Gronkowski, Blount Get Physical With Bengals And Burfict Late In Pats’ Win - (
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However, I know that's asking a lot of some people. I play sports with guys in their 40s and 50s and they still act like 10 year olds when playing a sport. Some people just can't help themselves.
However, when it hurts the team is when a line has to be drawn. Go out there and strut your stuff in the end zone like OB's first TD. No problem. When you cost your team yardage in penalties then it becomes a problem.
The stuff with the kicking net is stupid and childish, but it's also harmless. As long as he doesn't cost his team I don't care if he takes the net our for drinks after the game.
Yesterday, he COST HIS TEAM 15 YARDS OF FIELD POSITION IN A 1 POSSESSION GAME WITH OVER A MINUTE LEFT, THEN MOUTHED ON THE SIDELINE "GO AHEAD AND FLAG ME"
How can you defend that as a fan of a team if you really care about them winning?
... but I believe a decent sized piece of it is pretty basic, and it's summed up in three words:
New
York
City
Add to that the much ballyhoo'd dust-up(s) with Josh Norman last season, and it's what folks have come to expect, and what OBJ, on some level, continues to invite (see: his new, quite strange and immaturely ongoing relationship with the punting net as evidence of the odd attraction and curiosity that is the OBJ sideshow).
Yesterday, he COST HIS TEAM 15 YARDS OF FIELD POSITION IN A 1 POSSESSION GAME WITH OVER A MINUTE LEFT, THEN MOUTHED ON THE SIDELINE "GO AHEAD AND FLAG ME"
How can you defend that as a fan of a team if you really care about them winning?
i'll tell you my perspective. I was there...when he scored that td he could have punched you in the face and i would have thought he was fine. The guy won the game with a virtuoso performance after the league tried to take it away. Take that flag and put t behind some glass in the NY Giants hall of fame
Oh really? On the next play following the scoring sequence how many yards behind the normal kickoff spot was the ball placed when Josh Brown kicked off?
Must have missed it when they put the ball at the 28 yard line.
Gronk went on a party bus tour around the country a few years back, smashing things (spiking) at each stop he made. Can you imagine if Beckham did that this offseason?
I don't get the number of Giants fans pissed. About Carolina antics? Yes. This minor stuff? Seems silly. He is as good an offensive player as we've had, at least since Tiki in his prime, and the best WR I've seen us have in my 47 years. The fact that we don't have a better TE, run game, and OL is criminal as he dictates coverage. But I digress. He is young, getting way more scrutiny than most, and he's passionate. I think he'll mature some, and make more mistakes too.
The upside, is that if he tones it down a bit, and the scrutiny comes off and he doesn't get called for every action real and imagined, the media will complete the third prescribed narrative -- redemption, in which our failed hero has seen the error of his ways, and matured. Even better if they can say "into a leader." Let's hope it goes that way and not the other which is "weirdo." I think he'll be fine, if not fined.
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He cost the team SEVEN yards of fields of position in a one possession game. How can any fan who cares about winning scream about something and get it totally wrong.
Oh really? On the next play following the scoring sequence how many yards behind the normal kickoff spot was the ball placed when Josh Brown kicked off?
Must have missed it when they put the ball at the 28 yard line.
Who had more yards taken away....OBJ? Or the pass interference calls that must have totalled 100 yards.
Also, it cost the Ravens 5 or so seconds of valuable clock time. If the Giants couldn't keep the Ravens from covering 68 yards I doubt they could have kept them from covering 75. This is such a non issue.
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He cost the team SEVEN yards of fields of position in a one possession game. How can any fan who cares about winning scream about something and get it totally wrong.
Oh really? On the next play following the scoring sequence how many yards behind the normal kickoff spot was the ball placed when Josh Brown kicked off?
Must have missed it when they put the ball at the 28 yard line.
and if Brown booms it into the end zone as he was doing all day, the Ravens would have started at the 25. The returner was tackled at the 32 yard line.
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cares about the net thing, other than we think it is stupid. In the end if that was the extent of it nobody would give 2 craps.
Yesterday, he COST HIS TEAM 15 YARDS OF FIELD POSITION IN A 1 POSSESSION GAME WITH OVER A MINUTE LEFT, THEN MOUTHED ON THE SIDELINE "GO AHEAD AND FLAG ME"
How can you defend that as a fan of a team if you really care about them winning?
i'll tell you my perspective. I was there...when he scored that td he could have punched you in the face and i would have thought he was fine. The guy won the game with a virtuoso performance after the league tried to take it away. Take that flag and put t behind some glass in the NY Giants hall of fame
You are completely missing the point. Like it's so far over your head that it has made it's way over the bridge from Astoria to Washington Heights.
It's not about yesterday- it's about NEXT week, when we play the FIRST team with the same head coach that figured out the "Mess with Beckham's head" strategy that a lot of teams use now.
Can he control himself in a big spot and not cost his team the game? It's crazy that the needle is pointing to no at this point.
You want to apologize for him but he's an adult playing a game for which he is well compensated and he doesn't give a shit about anyone or anything but himself. FACT
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In comment 13178429 christian said:
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He cost the team SEVEN yards of fields of position in a one possession game. How can any fan who cares about winning scream about something and get it totally wrong.
Oh really? On the next play following the scoring sequence how many yards behind the normal kickoff spot was the ball placed when Josh Brown kicked off?
Must have missed it when they put the ball at the 28 yard line.
and if Brown booms it into the end zone as he was doing all day, the Ravens would have started at the 25. The returner was tackled at the 32 yard line.
And if Brown kicks it high from the 25 to the goal line the runner may have been tackled at the 10. You can if and but it all day but use the only constant in the equation.
Beckham penalty = 15 yards of guaranteed field position loss. That isn't speculative.
Many of those penalties are coming from his teammates and coaches.
Sorry but I still don't understand how one can get an illegal formation penalty. That is a function of coaching or perhaps coaches who aren't familiar with changes in rules. On a couple of those penalty calls McAdoo seemed just as confused to the penalty as everyone else. I hope some one got an explanation so they can change those formations in practice.
Gronk may have off the field issues but on the field he hasn't done anything similar to Beckham. His shot on Norman was sick. BTW, you missed the punch to the head by Beckham after the Bills INT last year.
No double standard because nobody else is acting like Beckham.
Earlier this year, Fitz was body slammed after the whistle. No flag. He got up. Looked for a flag. Shook his head. Went back to the huddle. If that's Beckham he's crying and throwing punches.
Every Brown kickoff yesterday resulted in a touchback.
Gronk may have off the field issues but on the field he hasn't done anything similar to Beckham. His shot on Norman was sick. BTW, you missed the punch to the head by Beckham after the Bills INT last year.
No double standard because nobody else is acting like Beckham.
Earlier this year, Fitz was body slammed after the whistle. No flag. He got up. Looked for a flag. Shook his head. Went back to the huddle. If that's Beckham he's crying and throwing punches.
Well Norman did pick him up and basically carry him 5 yards in that game a few weeks back and Beckham did nothing, so there's that. Its fine if you don't like how he behaves, but lets not act like its some automatic thing that he's going to do. The guy gets targeted more than anyone and based on your metrics, he should be blowing up a lot more than he has.
He's got a target on him now. He has to mature enough to stay in control, especially when opponents will now try to get under his skin.
But to be fair, the skins game flag was bs, and taking the helmet off wasn't really malicious. I was surprised at the flag since he was basically off the field, but they'are watching him closely now.
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Otherwise, when you have a platinum player like a Randy Moss, Dez Bryant and yes, Terrell Owens, you leave them alone to be great. You put up with anything (short of hurting the team) and let them be who they were gifted to be
Many of those penalties are coming from his teammates and coaches.
Sorry but I still don't understand how one can get an illegal formation penalty. That is a function of coaching or perhaps coaches who aren't familiar with changes in rules. On a couple of those penalty calls McAdoo seemed just as confused to the penalty as everyone else. I hope some one got an explanation so they can change those formations in practice.
Should have been clearer..Referring to the unnecessary ones like unsportsmanlike conduct(not yesterdays after his GW TD) and the like..
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He cost the team SEVEN yards of fields of position in a one possession game. How can any fan who cares about winning scream about something and get it totally wrong.
Oh really? On the next play following the scoring sequence how many yards behind the normal kickoff spot was the ball placed when Josh Brown kicked off?
Must have missed it when they put the ball at the 28 yard line.
Baltimore took over at the 32. A touchback puts them at the 25. That's seven yards. Unless you'd prefer to not compare to a touchback, in which case you can't really determine what he cost them, but since the KR caught the ball at the 6, there's not a lot of potential yards to claim that he ultimately cost them.
christian : 2:30 pm : link : reply
He cost the team SEVEN yards of fields of position in a one possession game. How can any fan who cares about winning scream about something and get it totally wrong.
In the Skins/Eagles game, Vernon Davis got an excessive celebration penalty. Eagles returned the kickoff for a TD.
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He's a great player. You put up with it and ty and talk him out of the BS. That's all you can do. But his act makes him look like a chump like the crying about the Min hit. That was nothing. It didn't warrant any reaction. But he hasn't figured it out.
He's a great player. You put up with it and ty and talk him out of the BS. That's all you can do. But his act makes him look like a chump like the crying about the Min hit. That was nothing. It didn't warrant any reaction. But he hasn't figured it out.
Yes, wouldn't he be blowing up even more if he did every time something went south? Its also really easy for us to say that the Vikings hit was nothing. Instant replay is awesome that way.
There is no defense for the reaction to that Vikings play. He was out of line. End of story.
I happen to think that in the heat of competition, you may think something happened where you need to stand up for yourself. Fans aren't privy to what's said on the field either but they will sure as hell act like they do. I've stated repeatedly that Beckham needs to reel it in and he's shown he's capable. Not sure what else to tell you other than you are coming to a conclusion with incomplete information. Shocking.
End of story.
Fans want to neuter this guy. Your QB will never get in people's face no matter how bad it gets, the offense is bland and uncreative. In the middle of a 3 game losing streak you have one guy bringing the fire who single handedly won the game for us and people are bitching about it.
A lot of people associated with this team are only in the positions they're in right now because if Odell.
He's a great player. You put up with it and ty and talk him out of the BS. That's all you can do. But his act makes him look like a chump like the crying about the Min hit. That was nothing. It didn't warrant any reaction. But he hasn't figured it out.
The only thing making him look like his chump was the bad QB play he as getting. I just happy the light went on for Eli in the 2nd half.
Last week, a WR started trading blows with a DB and they made light of the situation. There wasn't some faux outrage or calls for the guy to be suspended.
KWALL2 : 3:17 pm : link : reply
Watch it in real speed and hes barely out of bounds. And a guy hits him. Was he hit too hard? Is that the problem?
There is no defense for the reaction to that Vikings play. He was out of line. End of story.
They showed the play on the NFL Network and freeze-framed it when the flag came in. The three refs within 5 yards of Beckham didn't throw a flag. You know who did? The back judge from 25 yards away.
All of the studio guys asked how that ref could possibly call taunting from that distance and angle while the guys standing right there didn't.
Thanks BB56. I rambled a bit, but had a lot to get out. Above all I really wish we could focus on the football and enjoy the team. Season is too short.
I do. Last I knew he still enjoyed a good reputation, despite sticking his neck out for Michael Vick.
Last week, a WR started trading blows with a DB and they made light of the situation. There wasn't some faux outrage or calls for the guy to be suspended.
Thank you, this is exactly what I am talking about.
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nice job..
Thanks BB56. I rambled a bit, but had a lot to get out. Above all I really wish we could focus on the football and enjoy the team. Season is too short.
I will have an even greater week with this win..The Giants are flawed, sure, but who in this league isn't at this point? The Patriots keep rolling along and the Cowboys have played beyond expectations. To date..And the Panthers are 1-5? Really?
Yesterday, he COST HIS TEAM 15 YARDS OF FIELD POSITION IN A 1 POSSESSION GAME WITH OVER A MINUTE LEFT, THEN MOUTHED ON THE SIDELINE "GO AHEAD AND FLAG ME"
How can you defend that as a fan of a team if you really care about them winning?
Did NOT see that, but nothing he ever says about how he is a team first guy can ever negate that incident where he nearly costed the team a win.
Doesnt mean he isnt awesome at football but I can't fathom how anybody wouldnt prefer Odell to not propose to kicking nets after he scores a touchdown. It's corny, lame, and I'm sure it makes John Mara cringe. I know I do.
Agreed. People are trying really hard to be so right about this topic that its hilarious. The reality is we have a player who needs to continue to mature, and a league that needs to do a better job enforcing its own rules. I stopped taking the league seriously years ago and all they've done since is affirm my stance.
Doesnt mean he isnt awesome at football but I can't fathom how anybody wouldnt prefer Odell to not propose to kicking nets after he scores a touchdown. It's corny, lame, and I'm sure it makes John Mara cringe. I know I do.
I squirmed when a seasoned all-pro and future HOFer in Strahan would do that ballin' crap..But, this is what they do nowadays to varying degrees..It's silly, but I'm old school in that regard..
Doesnt mean he isnt awesome at football but I can't fathom how anybody wouldnt prefer Odell to not propose to kicking nets after he scores a touchdown. It's corny, lame, and I'm sure it makes John Mara cringe. I know I do.
I know plenty of people under 25, who are pretty fucking awesome and plenty more over 25, who are assholes (including myself). Not sure why age thing is even relevant.
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Beckham has looked like an asshole this year then you're probably an asshole or under the age of 25.
Doesnt mean he isnt awesome at football but I can't fathom how anybody wouldnt prefer Odell to not propose to kicking nets after he scores a touchdown. It's corny, lame, and I'm sure it makes John Mara cringe. I know I do.
I squirmed when a seasoned all-pro and future HOFer in Strahan would do that ballin' crap..But, this is what they do nowadays to varying degrees..It's silly, but I'm old school in that regard..
It's entertainment. Why don't people understand that?
Some fans think Giants football is life, and that's rather sad. However, most players see this as jobs that pay them a lot. Yes, they enjoy it and have fun playing it...hence some of the silliness.