I am sorry this is so long, and sorry to be starting another OBJ discussion. But my thoughts were too long to include in the existing posts.
Id be the first to say I am an unapologetic OBJ defender. That said. I think the criticism of some of his actions are warranted (the Panthers game from last year and some cheap shots observed this year. However due to the legitimate criticism he has received, the level of criticism of OBJ has reached an unreasonable level. I cite the following:
- The emotional meltdown during the Redskins game and hitting the net with his helmet. I understand that everyone wants to see the young man exercise complete composure at all times, but lets be fair. Plenty of players, including hall of fame players, got emotional on the sidelines in similar fashion. Its one thing to say he should stay composed, its another to label him as a distraction or a selfish player because of this particular behavior.
- His taunting penalty during the Vikings game. In addition to being a poor call by the official, OBJ had been hit late out of bounds, which was not called, and he was reacting to that hit. Also, I fail to see how that was taunting. OBJ was trying to get the officials attention, not going after the defensive player. He did try to exact a little revenge on the next play, which in my opinion should have been flagged.
- And yesterday. I know people are tired of the thing with the net, and I could do without it. But I think we have to accept that this is OBJs way of getting back at the critics for what he sees as some unfair scrutiny when you consider that plenty of players do the same things he does and dont receive the same treatment from the national sports media. I mean, he isnt the first or the last player to have an outburst on the sideline and use his equipment to express that frustration. As far as removing the helmet penalty, I would argue he had stepped out of the endzone and therefore was no longer in the field of play, but the rules are the rules. Not going to make excuses for him there. As far as the post TD sideline antics go, he just scored the game winning TD on 4th and 1, and took his chest thumping strutting celebration to the sideline (where it belongs) and kept it out of the endzone.
National media is acting like OBJ is the first skill player to celebrate loudly after big plays. Anyone notice this kind of thing has been going on for 30 years? Why is OBJ proposing to the net on the sideline somehow worse than Antonio Browns twerking in the endzone? My basic point is there are things we can and should be critical of OBJ for, and then there are other instances where we (fans and media) are far too critical. As much as you dont like the net stuff, doesnt it seem like the sports media is more outraged about it than OBJ teammates are?
Last night Rodney Harrison said OBJ had potential, ok Mr. Harrison, I think we are beyond potential at this point. And Tony Dungy, a man I respect, said OBJ has to stop hurting his team with penalties like removing his helmet after the TD. While I concede the act was a penalty, lets be fair. Did anyone catch Rob Gronkowskis actions yesterday? Now, to be honest, I love me some Gronk. He is a monster, plays like a bull in a china shop, seems to never take a play off, and is near impossible to stop. I would love to see him in NYG Blue. But, Gronk is a bit offmentally, and we all know this. We have accepted it. In fact, most of us love it, even when he is in the wrong.
Anyone remember his off the field antics and partying early in his career, when he explained to the New Patriot organization that his partying and blowing off steam helped him play better. And they said ok, just dont do anything to hurt the team. Anyone read Its Good to be Gronk. A book that details Gronks exploits in all facets of his life, some of which are not fit for young ears. Gronks antics are almost treated as humorous and loveable, his book was greated as fun and enjoyable. I have no problem with that. Gronk is a great player, he is who is, and is good for the game.
Yesterday during the Pats-Bengals game, Gronk repeatedly taunted the Bengals defense, including a player who got injured attempting to tackle the massive TE. For a while it looked like Gronk and Bengals LB Vontaze Burfict were going to fight. Gronk drew a 15 yard penalty, and later said he needed to avoid those types of penalties. I think we all understand things get heated and emotional on the football field, and players like Gronk and OBJ care about winning. Even when they are drawing attention to themselves they care about winning. What I dont understand, is why OBJs actions yesterday are a bigger media story than Gronks actions? Is it because Gronk is a Patriot and has a ring? Is it because half the reason people love Gronk is because he has developed a caveman like persona and lives up to it? Is it because the Patriots win more than the Giants? Do we have more respect for the 66 260lb TE who plays physical, than the 511 195lb WR who plays a finesse game.
Why is it nearly overlooked by national media when one taunts an injured player and almost gets in a fight, and we cant get enough of what are at worst silly sideline antics with a net and a foolish (but not malicious) removal of the helmet penalty after a game winning TD.
Im a Giants fan, so I am biased, but I really am curious why OBJ draws far more media attention than Cam Newtons pouty press conference, Browns lewd dancing in the endzone, or Gronk taunting an injured player and almost starting a brawl. Do I think OBJ is under an unfair spotlight? Yes I do. Do I think he helped put it there? Yes I do. Do I think other players are getting away with even worse behavior? Absolutely I do.
Gronkowski, Blount Get Physical With Bengals And Burfict Late In Pats Win - (
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All for a little bump out of bounds.
Uconn...You can go on an on about what may have been said. It means nothing. Lot of things are said. If hes getting upset about talk he's got more problems.
He got bumped out of bounds and, once again, overreacted. There is no defense for it including what may have been said.
And it continued after that. The next play on the same sideline, hes out of bounds and then takes a few steps to run over the defender. More unnecessary BS. But maybe he said something about his mother? Is that it?
All for a little bump out of bounds.
Uconn...You can go on an on about what may have been said. It means nothing. Lot of things are said. If hes getting upset about talk he's got more problems.
He got bumped out of bounds and, once again, overreacted. There is no defense for it including what may have been said.
And it continued after that. The next play on the same sideline, hes out of bounds and then takes a few steps to run over the defender. More unnecessary BS. But maybe he said something about his mother? Is that it?
Understand where you're coming from..I'm guessing you wanted someone else in the draft at 12? 😎
How can you defend that as a fan of a team if you really care about them winning?
Well, you don't know what was said.
The NFL is slowly draining the league of any fun. Celebrating a big play has always been a part of the league, and they're trying to turn it into a thing of the past piece by piece. Instead of letting them play, it's turning into basketball where the wrong look at an official results in a technical foul.
Francesa is on a tear today about how OBJ hurt his team, and they should amend the rules to be pre-play, not post play. So now an entire team should execute a good play, and because a guy who's going to get mowed down by defensive players for catching a ball gets fired up, the entire play should be negated?
It's turning into a robot league, bring on the damn robots already.
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He cost the team SEVEN yards of fields of position in a one possession game. How can any fan who cares about winning scream about something and get it totally wrong.
Oh really? On the next play following the scoring sequence how many yards behind the normal kickoff spot was the ball placed when Josh Brown kicked off?
Must have missed it when they put the ball at the 28 yard line.
Don't be thick. He's saying the Ravens started at the 32 instead of the 25...
Yeah, but so were Moss and Owens and now Dez..I look past it. I have to..It's not what I grew up with..Unless he hurts us, all I care about os production..Screw the rest
Then let him melt down. Seriously - these guys are hitting each other at full speed, and they need referees to exhibit discretion on when they're being mean to one another? C'mon.
He needs to clean up with the penalties. Stop that BS. Its not hard to follow the rules. Hopefully, he cleans this up and keeps scoring TDs.
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Players like Beckham need taunting penalties. If guys could taunt him he would meltdown. He couldn't handle it.
Then let him melt down. Seriously - these guys are hitting each other at full speed, and they need referees to exhibit discretion on when they're being mean to one another? C'mon.
Yup..He's one guy who I am NOT going to get worked up over unless he costs us a game..
He needs to clean up with the penalties. Stop that BS. Its not hard to follow the rules. Hopefully, he cleans this up and keeps scoring TDs.
👍👍
That's the point of my post above, he is being taunted. He was taunted for a full game by Norman last year and unless you are completely oblivious, you see jarring from other CB's this year.
Taunting - "provoke or challenge (someone) with insulting remarks."
It's likely that part of what makes him who he is also makes him subject to those shortcomings, so it'll probably be a longer term task of trying to get him to adjust his behavior without losing his confidence.
Yeah, but so were Moss and Owens and now Dez..I look past it. I have to..It's not what I grew up with..Unless he hurts us, all I care about os production..Screw the rest
Unless he hurts them? What do you call 15 yard penalties? What do you call getting yourself suspended for a game so you can't help your team win? An ongoing saga with a fucking net? Gimme a break.
Also, where's the guarantee or even likelihood that this doesn't become the norm or, worse, continue to escalate?
Just like he was vs Buffalo. He was provoked to throw the punch. Again, the victim of taunting.
Funny, how you say we don't know whats being said but your sure he was taunted for an entire game by Norman and by other CBs.
You tell him to dial it down and you don't have the same player anymore. You just don't. It's not so easy to turn that kind of intensity off like a switch once the play is over. It's just not.
The fact that he plays like a maniac is part of what makes him a great player. So I think the best thing to do is try to get him to temper it down when he can but mostly just live with it....cause I think the only alternative is to get a lesser version of OBJ.
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Yeah, but so were Moss and Owens and now Dez..I look past it. I have to..It's not what I grew up with..Unless he hurts us, all I care about os production..Screw the rest
Unless he hurts them? What do you call 15 yard penalties? What do you call getting yourself suspended for a game so you can't help your team win? An ongoing saga with a fucking net? Gimme a break.
Also, where's the guarantee or even likelihood that this doesn't become the norm or, worse, continue to escalate?
I said unless he hurts them..He needs to cut out drive-killing penalties..The unacceptable behavior is a given..
Maybe next time it will and the only value to his 200 yard game will be on your fantasy team...
As usual, Beckham apologists will say it's ok because he plays with "passion and fire"
You articulated much better than I could my point.
Just like he was vs Buffalo. He was provoked to throw the punch. Again, the victim of taunting.
Funny, how you say we don't know whats being said but your sure he was taunted for an entire game by Norman and by other CBs.
He was taunted by Norman, its a fact. He was also taunted by the Rams and then some last year, also fact. Unless of course you think they were exchanging dinner plans.
I'm being facetious with "all game".
As for the Vikings game, he didn't really do anything. He got flagged for it, but its a very borderline call. So is that the basis for your argument?
We all agree he's done dumb shit but this notion that some people have of him being out of control, mentally unstable, blah blah is ridiculous.
I don't think they would. I think people would instead blame the ref for throwing the flag. Or they would just write it off as part of the cost of having such a great player, as though his powers to play football resides in whatever place it is that also makes him commit personal fouls.
You think every player in the NFL plays with the same level of intensity? Really?
You guys have an agenda. Either you don't like OBJ or you don't like the new NFL. All this talk of how OBJ could have cost us the game.
Two things.
1. He just had two plays for two tds. 75 yards and 65 yards. Who wouldn't celebrate? Some would say he won the game.
2. His fumble did more to hurt the Giants chances of winning then the penalty.
If the topic is he almost cost us the game, why hasn't that been mentioned?
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tons of players across all of sports have passion. Some don't need to express it (Eli) and some do (Beckham). I think its a bogus argument.
You think every player in the NFL plays with the same level of intensity? Really?
That isn't even close to what I said. I said you can be passionate about the game and not be theatrical, and gave two examples.
Since you brought it up, is Eli and less intense than Beckham?
Nope, never claimed that. I've actually stated several times in this thread and others that Beckham is responsible for most of this.
I'm not saying he doesn't need to grow up some. We all know he does. It's called becoming mature. He bound to have his ups and downs and the wtfs.. but damnit when he is on I can forgive him the times he messes up,because at least you know he is out there trying every game. It giving up in the middle of a play or not wanting to get hurt on another.
He looks like an asshole because he acts like an asshole. Because he is such a great player his behavior is tolerated. With each idiotic display he makes himself more of a target
I think he has to fuck Lena Dunham.
The last one that drew the foul- it was obvious that he was trying to avoid a foul and did NOT celebrate on the field--- unfortunately he took his Helmet off about 5 feet too soon.
This was not some absurd behavior distracting the team ( like the Viking game)
People cry and whine about ESPN and the media and then eat up the shit and narrative that they promote.
The last 2 games has shown a les volatile player waking up to his issues a bit.
the crying about this is pathetic this game
You guys have an agenda. Either you don't like OBJ or you don't like the new NFL. All this talk of how OBJ could have cost us the game.
Two things.
1. He just had two plays for two tds. 75 yards and 65 yards. Who wouldn't celebrate? Some would say he won the game.
2. His fumble did more to hurt the Giants chances of winning then the penalty.
If the topic is he almost cost us the game, why hasn't that been mentioned?
Because the fumble is a physical mistake, and we can all live with a mistake. 15 yard penalties every week are a mental issue.
Let me toss this back at you:
When DaMontre Moore got 15 yard penalties in 3 straight games why was he public enemy #1 around here but now it's not ok to criticize Beckham and demand accountability for the same thing?
I think he has to fuck Lena Dunham.
At the 50 at halftime in London underneath the kicking net.
Look at that immature "look at me" attitude in his eyes.
Have people never watched a baseball game and seen what players do to water coolers, sunflower seeds, bullpen phones, etc. when they strike out? I never hear those guys' commitments to their teams questioned.
Beckham is one of the most important and valuable players on the team. Any struggles the team has is not because of him. He does nothing but make our team and team culture better because of how hard he strives for greatness. Has there ever been a report of him not showing up for meetings, practice, training sessions? Have there been any reports or rumors of him dogging it or creating drama during training camps or practices?
No. Although one time he lost complete control of his emotions, launched himself helmet first at another player's head (potentially seriously injuring them both) and got himself suspended for a game. Luckily that game was largely unimportant so his absence only minimally hurt his teammates.
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Beckham has looked like an asshole this year then you're probably an asshole or under the age of 25.
Doesnt mean he isnt awesome at football but I can't fathom how anybody wouldnt prefer Odell to not propose to kicking nets after he scores a touchdown. It's corny, lame, and I'm sure it makes John Mara cringe. I know I do.
I know plenty of people under 25, who are pretty fucking awesome and plenty more over 25, who are assholes (including myself). Not sure why age thing is even relevant.
The age thing is relevant b/c the 25 and under crew doesn't seem to have enough experience to differentiate between right and wrong or funny and outright stupid. Heck, writing a resume or speaking on the phone is a reach.
Wrong - he's being ridiculed b/c of the flag which was the first act of his look at me show with no clue/care he was flagged which could have cost the team a win and maybe a playoff spot down the road.
Just wait until the Ram game this week.
Look at that immature "look at me" attitude in his eyes.
You honestly can't tell the difference. I feel sorry for you. Those long novels you write at 3am in Rangers threads i thought summed you up. I was wrong. This one does. You can't tell the difference between the game, pregame and who knows what else.
KWALL2 : 4:18 pm : link : reply
Players like Beckham need taunting penalties. If guys could taunt him he would meltdown. He couldn't handle it.
This shit started with Jeff Fischer ....
What did Odell do that you consider a Taunt ...?
This game cannot be controlled by Piss Poor Calls and
taking Emotion out of the game .
Its a God Damn Game not a 3rd Rieck Army Drill
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and people bitch about the celebration penalty because that could have cost us the game.
You guys have an agenda. Either you don't like OBJ or you don't like the new NFL. All this talk of how OBJ could have cost us the game.
Two things.
1. He just had two plays for two tds. 75 yards and 65 yards. Who wouldn't celebrate? Some would say he won the game.
2. His fumble did more to hurt the Giants chances of winning then the penalty.
If the topic is he almost cost us the game, why hasn't that been mentioned?
Because the fumble is a physical mistake, and we can all live with a mistake. 15 yard penalties every week are a mental issue.
Let me toss this back at you:
When DaMontre Moore got 15 yard penalties in 3 straight games why was he public enemy #1 around here but now it's not ok to criticize Beckham and demand accountability for the same thing?
If DaMontre Moore was an all pro talent and the only thing separating this team team from 4-12 garbage, he would have gotten more rope too.