Is Cruz washed up?

In comment 13180278 Big Blue '56 said:

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and not all that much during the summer.. Cut him some slack?

I don't think the team or any team to be honest can afford to cut players particularly older vets coming back from possible career ending injuries that did not play in two years some slack. Normally those players are just cut. Not to be callous but let's not pretend this is some normal course of business in the NFL.

He is clearly not dynamic anymore but appears to be serviceable and has made a couple of big catches for an offense that needs them.

He is also too quiet for certain stretches knowing we have all the attention on OBJ.

Hopefully Lewis keeps developing and we can worry about Cruz in the offseason.

In comment 13180333 section125 said:

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that if Cruz was in the slot, he'd have a lot more catches right now. As dep has been saying, VC is a slot receiver. He never had burner speed. If I had my way, Cruz would be back at slot and Shepard, King and Lewis could fight it out for the other WR position.

But that's the thing that even Cruz knew. The Giants were ready to move on from him. They selected a slot receiver in the 2nd round. Everyone knew the deal including Cruz that he would have to make his bones on the outside now.

but he's not a player Giants should plan around. They need a big wr outside. He is more of a brand name at this point.

But not sure he ever did. He relies on quickness more than speed. More of an asset in the middle of the field. Same with the kid. They really could use a big, hard running guy on the outside. Kind of think Lewis or King would be a better choice there.

Doubtful

He's not the player he once was, but washed up is a stretch

washed up is harsh. Agreed.

750-800 yards and game winning tds is a good year for a receiver.

He is not the VC of old though.

now I know that's not happening, but I'd much prefer Lewis in as the #2 a little more. He's got decent speed and height.

In comment 13180414 Ben in Tampa said:

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Doubtful He's not the player he once was, but washed up is a stretch

Better than Reuben Randle anyway. =)

ask this at the end of the season not 6 weeks in.

Play WR. Sheppard has disappeared and has been involved in 2 picks.

In comment 13180439 Rory said:

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ask this at the end of the season not 6 weeks in.

What's dumber... posting it, or posting ON it calling it dumb, when it's explicitly stated in the first sentence that the thread is merely a continuation of an old one because some good exchanges went down. Reading is fun, sometimes.

Cruz had winning td game 1
set up winning FG in game 2

last week he converted 3rd downs and cruel 4th down

Cruz is a gamer

In comment 13180273 VenteSette said:

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but Jackson, Garcon and Crowder all have more catches and yards than Cruz

I think you missed the point. Which of those is their 3rd option and do they have more yds than VC?

In comment 13180551 Eman11 said:

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In comment 13180273 VenteSette said: Quote: but Jackson, Garcon and Crowder all have more catches and yards than Cruz I think you missed the point. Which of those is their 3rd option and do they have more yds than VC?

Actually, VenteCette is correct and I missed Jamison Crowder, who does indeed have 7 more receiving yards than Cruz.

So there are 3 teams with a more productive 3rd WR and 6 teams with a more productive 3rd option, not 2 and 5. My apologies.

But still only 5 with a more productive 3rd option. Semantics at this point, but just getting it right.

In comment 13180559 Mike in Long Beach said:

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But still only 5 with a more productive 3rd option. Semantics at this point, but just getting it right.

He's better than I thought he was going to be. He will never be the same player he once was. He needs to move to the slot.

Btw, what's up Mike?

would have better numbers in the slot he really isn't at
his best playing outside . Reece drafted his replacement
because of nature of the injury .
Cruz fooled a lot of nay sayers wrong .
Love Cruz but I think we could use him in a trade if
the right offer came up maybe packaged with a late
draft pick for a LT or TE...
No I don't want to trade Cruz because of who he is
but we actually have enough decent WR's to make up
the production .

In comment 13180556 Mike in Long Beach said:

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In comment 13180551 Eman11 said: Quote: In comment 13180273 VenteSette said: Quote: but Jackson, Garcon and Crowder all have more catches and yards than Cruz I think you missed the point. Which of those is their 3rd option and do they have more yds than VC? Actually, VenteCette is correct and I missed Jamison Crowder, who does indeed have 7 more receiving yards than Cruz. So there are 3 teams with a more productive 3rd WR and 6 teams with a more productive 3rd option, not 2 and 5. My apologies.

Yes he is correct about Crowder but I was referring to him mentioning the fact Jackson and Garçon have more than VC. They all can't be the Skins 3rd option.

to get the ball to Cruz after checking his 1st and 2nd read.

In comment 13180370 Mason said:

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In comment 13180333 section125 said: Quote: that if Cruz was in the slot, he'd have a lot more catches right now. As dep has been saying, VC is a slot receiver. He never had burner speed. If I had my way, Cruz would be back at slot and Shepard, King and Lewis could fight it out for the other WR position. But that's the thing that even Cruz knew. The Giants were ready to move on from him. They selected a slot receiver in the 2nd round. Everyone knew the deal including Cruz that he would have to make his bones on the outside now.

You are not wrong, but I'd like to see Cruz back in the slot. I think he is a better slot receiver than Shepard, but who knows until he gets there. Just because Shepard was a 2nd round pick doesn't make him the better choice in the slot. I'd imagine that the current setup is what the coaches see as ideal with this group. Maybe Shepard is much better at slot than Lewis or King would be at WR if Cruz moved inside, even if Cruz were the better slot receiver?

ALL 3 were first downs!! STHU already....

He's a slot WR asked to play on the outside.

Why not have more 4 reciever sets in passing situations with Cruz and Sheppard in the slot.

I've seen like 6 people say "I'd put a bigger WR like King or Lewis outside"

Cruz is bigger then Lewis, he's bigger then King (half inch shorter but 10-15 pounds heavier)

That's all really

I like Lewis a lot , I'd go 4 WR sets a lot more even 5 WR sometimes

I'd also get Harris more reps at WR, anyone else notice the Giants using Harris as a FB last week? Lol so pathetic.

In comment 13180594 penkap75 said:

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Why not have more 4 reciever sets in passing situations with Cruz and Sheppard in the slot.

I've been asking the same thing for a couple of weeks now. It doesn't have to be their main offense but doing it some would be a good thing. Plus it gives t as more things they have to prepare for. Throw in it should help vs the two deep safety look they have trouble with and its a no brainer to me to incorporate it into their O.

In comment 13180599 DennyInDenville said:

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I've seen like 6 people say "I'd put a bigger WR like King or Lewis outside" Cruz is bigger then Lewis, he's bigger then King (half inch shorter but 10-15 pounds heavier) That's all really I like Lewis a lot , I'd go 4 WR sets a lot more even 5 WR sometimes I'd also get Harris more reps at WR, anyone else notice the Giants using Harris as a FB last week? Lol so pathetic.

I didn't say that. I said players who play bigger and who are more adept at playing the outside WR position (whereas Cruz is clearly more comfortable in the slot).

strictly, even projected over 16 games in a season, he's been on a decline since his breakout year.

He was on pace to have his worst season of his career prior to getting hurt in 2014. Still solid, but "game breaking" is something he's really shown over a season or two.

That aside I was expecting 0 from him now. Considering how awful his team is in the red zone it would be nice to have a bigger target but beggars can't be choosers. He might be one of the best #3 options in the league. That is assuming Shepard is contributing as a #2 though.

Cruz has always excelled in the slot. To gauge how Cruz is doing would be to have him play in the slot and see what we have. Do we have to play a tight end when we play four wide? No is the answer and there is no reason to have Donnell or Tye in the game in long passing downs. Put Lewis on the outside with Cruz and Shepherd in the slot. Our offensive coaching is not very creative.

Why would you think he's washed up? It's week 6 and he's on an ok pace. What if Cruz has a 7-98-1 line this week?

2011 was a perfect storm but Cruz is still in there somewhere. If the offense can keep growing he's gonna bust out and he's already shown glimpses of greatness this season.

Nothing would surprise me shit I was even saying this would be victor's last season back in August and I did think he'd play this year, but after six weeks I don't see any signs of a done player.

I wouldn't say he's washed up, but I do think he's more likely average than a weapon. However, it's hard to gauge right now because our running game and TE dilemma have stacked the deck against our passing game and he isn't in his natural slot position as often as he'd probably like.

In comment 13180361 Mason said:

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In comment 13180278 Big Blue '56 said: Quote: and not all that much during the summer.. Cut him some slack? I don't think the team or any team to be honest can afford to cut players particularly older vets coming back from possible career ending injuries that did not play in two years some slack. Normally those players are just cut. Not to be callous but let's not pretend this is some normal course of business in the NFL.

Perry, by slack I mean, no one, even the Giants know what he has left or not. Too soon to really know. Patience is the slack I'm asking for. Some players deserve more than others. Cruz absolutely does in my judgement

In comment 13180278 Big Blue '56 said:

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and not all that much during the summer.. Cut him some slack?

Absolutely agree.

Not to mention he's playing on an offense that for the most part has been totally out of sync/ineffective, with plenty of blame to go around across the board... bad OL play, lack of discipline, penalties, TO's, top 2 RBs out with injury for a good chunk of the season so far, Eli uncomfortable behind the OL and off target sometimes... etc.

To single him out, 6 games into the season after he's been out for almost 2 years doesnt seem right.

and then what?

with Plaxico Burress when he was here, Eli just dropped back and looked for Plax and no place else and he's now pretty much doing the same thing. I know how talented OBJ is and that he's a game breaker but we do have other receivers who might be getting tired running routes knowing they won't be seeing the ball...

In comment 13180746 Jersey55 said:

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with Plaxico Burress when he was here, Eli just dropped back and looked for Plax and no place else and he's now pretty much doing the same thing. I know how talented OBJ is and that he's a game breaker but we do have other receivers who might be getting tired running routes knowing they won't be seeing the ball...

For the money they're making they better not get tired running their routes or they will be replaced by those who would love to get the chance "not to tire."

In comment 13180746 Jersey55 said:

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with Plaxico Burress when he was here, Eli just dropped back and looked for Plax and no place else and he's now pretty much doing the same thing. I know how talented OBJ is and that he's a game breaker but we do have other receivers who might be getting tired running routes knowing they won't be seeing the ball...

FROM ESPN:

OBJ - 61 targets
SS - 41 targets
VC - 33 targets
WT - 22 targets

Just exactly what ratio would you consider optimum?

more than fair. Cruz should only get half the targets obj does.

The coach isn't smart

Now Cruz is washed up


Maybe the fans are just lost

Real question is next year. His cap number is 9+ million. Will they do another restructure or cut bait and move on?

12 players have between 57 and 64 targets. Odell is certainly one of the top few receiving threats in the game. The charge that Eli is only throwing the ball to Beckham is bunk.

Odell should get top 2 or 3 targets. Hes worth it. Even with the net celebrations........

Even distribution is a bad idea. Think Shepard and Cruz go to the house like Odell did?

are too similar. Lewis showed something on the outside. he was winning his match ups repeatedly before his td. you could feel it coming. he needs more opporunities. he should get snaps in place of cruz a bit but also 4wr packages to utilize cruz and shep inside

But he's done nothing that would make a fan call for him to get the ball more. I see a player that's fighting hard to get open and not winning his matchups enough.

Someone posted the targets totals per receiver. That's about what they all should be getting, just like that.

he was supposed to be a second option.

(nooo - c'mon).

But calling him 'washed up' is rather harsh.

No way he's worth anything like that. They have to move on or he must restructure.

He won't sniff money like that anywhere in fa so Giants still have leverage.

I love the guy but that's the biz.....

Witten is 1st with 42 targets and Beasley is 2nd with 39 targets.

Williams: 20 catches on 24 targets for 311 yards, 15.6 YPC, 1 TD, 62 YAC, 17 first downs.

Cruz: 19 catches on 33 targets for 276 yards, 14.6 YPC, 1 TD, 96 YAC, 12 first downs.

If you think Cruz is washed up then you can easily make a case Shepard isn't developing.

IMO, it starts and ends with the OL. The very reason Dallas wins with so/so receivers and a QB who doesn't make mistakes.