I'm not really sure why Thomas fell into the 2nd round. He was the top ranked WR in the class a couple months prior to the draft and then a bunch of other guys saw their stock rise (Coleman, Fuller, Doctson) and his sort of fell. Looked like one of the best prospects in the class but I guess some scouts thought differently.
Not sure L. Treadwell has even seen the field yet and
Michael Thomas guy in the draft if anyone remembers. But, I also liked Shepard. Preferred Thomas because of the size/speed ratio, which is something I still think we need and are lacking outside.
The draft is not only about this year, and I think Shepard will turn out to be a terrific pick. I also think New Orleans got a very good player.
Kind of an OBJ/Aaron Donald situation. Both teams are happy, you can split hairs over which choice was ultimately a better one.
RE: Not sure L. Treadwell has even seen the field yet and
but the Giants apparently preferred the versatility of a guy like Shepard who can play inside or outside especially with the uncertainty there was around Cruz.
So while people harp on BPA BPA realistically the Giants might have had Thomas slightly ahead of Shepard or maybe they were even or maybe Shepard was their guy all along, who knows, but without a doubt slot receiver was a far bigger need on a team with Beckham than an outside receiver even with Thomas' size.
but without a doubt slot receiver was a far bigger need on a team with Beckham than an outside receiver even with Thomas' size.
If you believed that Cruz was going to be finally ready to come back, like I did, I'm not sure how this is true. I usually agree with you... but I still think Cruz is a square peg in a round hole playing on the outside. He is best used as a slot receiver. Even if you weren't convinced regarding Cruz's recovery, the presence of Dwayne Harris, who played well in the slot last season, reduced the need for a slot receiver even more.
I think a legitimate outside threat to complement OBJ was a need in the draft, I still think it's a need today. The Giants will eventually solve it, and perhaps the solution is in-house already (Lewis, King?), but it will eventually get addressed. And perhaps that solution is Shepard outside. I think Shepard's strength, speed, and leaping ability would play outside better than Cruz... and perhaps it's just a matter of time for that to happen.
but without a doubt slot receiver was a far bigger need on a team with Beckham than an outside receiver even with Thomas' size.
If you believed that Cruz was going to be finally ready to come back, like I did, I'm not sure how this is true. I usually agree with you... but I still think Cruz is a square peg in a round hole playing on the outside. He is best used as a slot receiver. Even if you weren't convinced regarding Cruz's recovery, the presence of Dwayne Harris, who played well in the slot last season, reduced the need for a slot receiver even more.
I think a legitimate outside threat to complement OBJ was a need in the draft, I still think it's a need today. The Giants will eventually solve it, and perhaps the solution is in-house already (Lewis, King?), but it will eventually get addressed. And perhaps that solution is Shepard outside. I think Shepard's strength, speed, and leaping ability would play outside better than Cruz... and perhaps it's just a matter of time for that to happen.
I say this because I read Cruz is playing outside to limit the pressure/risk to his knee. I admit I don't get all that, maybe less quick breaks and cuts outside vs slot, but at least that was my understanding.
Cruz didn't move to the outside to make room for Shepard, but Cruz moved to the outside for Cruz.
Originally the plan was for Shepard to play outside and Cruz back to his familiar slot position, according to the most of the beat writers, you can google it - tons of articles from OTA's, mini-camp and even post-draft.
but I think when Cruz couldn't get back on the field early in camp (or even late in camp) plans shifted and that's what makes Shepard so versatile and possibly contributed to drafting him over other WR's like Thomas.
I think next year you'll see a slot receiver added and Shepard moved outside opposite Beckham like was the plan during OTA's and post-draft and not sure Cruz comes back if he can't play slot. Just a guess - he makes a ton of money next year for the way he's used IMO.
average as a slot receiver. I like the guy a lot, he's hard nosed and better than I thought he'd be as an impactful football player - mostly on special teams, but Harris should not be on the field in any WR capacity unless there are severe injuries.
they prefer to have the WR be all the same size. I get the interchangeable aspect of that, but i feel like it is also limiting.
Same way ALWAYS going 3 wide is limiting.
and while i am at it i am really annoyed they didn't get a fullback after both FBs got injured.
The GB offense can be exciting and put up points, but it is also kinda soft. I've always thought that about WCO -except the shanahan branch- who really does run the ball. I think the TC influence on it was a good thing, in terms of sticking with the run, keeping more balance, keeping some power runs in the offense etc.
anyway, sry to divert from topic - i think shep was the pick because he fits the mold of what they want - but i personally think it is a narrow minded view and a flaw in the system / philosophy.
Love shep and think he will be a great slot receiver. agree that cruz is not as effective on the outside, and would love a bigger WR out there. Hope Thomas plays well cause i snaked him onto my FF team a couple weeks back.
but without a doubt slot receiver was a far bigger need on a team with Beckham than an outside receiver even with Thomas' size.
If you believed that Cruz was going to be finally ready to come back, like I did, I'm not sure how this is true. I usually agree with you... but I still think Cruz is a square peg in a round hole playing on the outside. He is best used as a slot receiver. Even if you weren't convinced regarding Cruz's recovery, the presence of Dwayne Harris, who played well in the slot last season, reduced the need for a slot receiver even more.
I think a legitimate outside threat to complement OBJ was a need in the draft, I still think it's a need today. The Giants will eventually solve it, and perhaps the solution is in-house already (Lewis, King?), but it will eventually get addressed. And perhaps that solution is Shepard outside. I think Shepard's strength, speed, and leaping ability would play outside better than Cruz... and perhaps it's just a matter of time for that to happen.
I say this because I read Cruz is playing outside to limit the pressure/risk to his knee. I admit I don't get all that, maybe less quick breaks and cuts outside vs slot, but at least that was my understanding.
Cruz didn't move to the outside to make room for Shepard, but Cruz moved to the outside for Cruz.
Originally the plan was for Shepard to play outside and Cruz back to his familiar slot position, according to the most of the beat writers, you can google it - tons of articles from OTA's, mini-camp and even post-draft.
but I think when Cruz couldn't get back on the field early in camp (or even late in camp) plans shifted and that's what makes Shepard so versatile and possibly contributed to drafting him over other WR's like Thomas.
I think next year you'll see a slot receiver added and Shepard moved outside opposite Beckham like was the plan during OTA's and post-draft and not sure Cruz comes back if he can't play slot. Just a guess - he makes a ton of money next year for the way he's used IMO.
Very interesting, thanks. The explanation makes some sense. Cruz's game is really predicated on those quick cuts, I would like to see him on the field less if they feel like they have to protect the knee, just me. But hopefully Cruz will have more success as the season goes on. I'd like to see more of both Lewis and King, but Shepard I still believe will be a tremendous player.
they prefer to have the WR be all the same size. I get the interchangeable aspect of that, but i feel like it is also limiting.
Same way ALWAYS going 3 wide is limiting.
and while i am at it i am really annoyed they didn't get a fullback after both FBs got injured.
The GB offense can be exciting and put up points, but it is also kinda soft. I've always thought that about WCO -except the shanahan branch- who really does run the ball. I think the TC influence on it was a good thing, in terms of sticking with the run, keeping more balance, keeping some power runs in the offense etc.
anyway, sry to divert from topic - i think shep was the pick because he fits the mold of what they want - but i personally think it is a narrow minded view and a flaw in the system / philosophy.
Love shep and think he will be a great slot receiver. agree that cruz is not as effective on the outside, and would love a bigger WR out there. Hope Thomas plays well cause i snaked him onto my FF team a couple weeks back.
to protect the knee. That is odd, how can you protect an NFL player's knee once he is out there? If he is healthy he has to be able to do anything once his number is called. If not he is a liability. I am glad he is back, but I hope his knee is not dictating how he is played.
nothing against Shephard, I think he's a player, but they have a
to protect the knee. That is odd, how can you protect an NFL player's knee once he is out there? If he is healthy he has to be able to do anything once his number is called. If not he is a liability. I am glad he is back, but I hope his knee is not dictating how he is played.
I don't know, I'll see if I can dig it up, I didn't understand it either, but if you follow the beat writers and even some things from the team all the way from OTA's Cruz was the slot guy and Shepard outside until the very end of training camp.
average as a slot receiver. I like the guy a lot, he's hard nosed and better than I thought he'd be as an impactful football player - mostly on special teams, but Harris should not be on the field in any WR capacity unless there are severe injuries.
I thought he played pretty well last year...a gamer for sure.
Not suggesting we should force him on the field, but he certainly isn't getting many touches in the ST game. He should still be considered a playmaker for us.
Just goes to show you can't predict anything with these guys. Treadwell, while limited speed, was considered NFL ready. He was drafted specifically to play the Michael Irvin Split End position in Norv's offense.
the Vikings have NOTHING at WR beyond Diggs and Treadwell can't just play the position he was drafted for by default...? Does not point to him being NFL ready. And I was a big Treadwell guy and thought he was the favorite for the Giants pick.
at WR because he's such an easy guy to root for. I was so against giving him the contract the Giants did but now not so much. He can tilt the field and he's good as a gunner.
But, maybe it was just me, I thought he was wildly inconsistent in the passing game. drops, wrong routes (my assumption), and just missing passes that we're used to seeing a slot receiver make. He's a demon blocking, so maybe there is some utility for him in that role, but I felt like there was a reason Preston Parker was ahead of Harris on the depth chart and that's not saying much.
I also felt it became clear how Harris couldn't crack the WR rotation in 4 years in Dallas even with them scraping bottom of the barrel for receivers during Dez's injuries.
Just goes to show you can't predict anything with these guys. Treadwell, while limited speed, was considered NFL ready. He was drafted specifically to play the Michael Irvin Split End position in Norv's offense.
the Vikings have NOTHING at WR beyond Diggs and Treadwell can't just play the position he was drafted for by default...? Does not point to him being NFL ready. And I was a big Treadwell guy and thought he was the favorite for the Giants pick.
This is on the heels of them using a first round pick on Cordarelle Patterson, who in 3+ years hasn't been able to crack the WR rotation consistently (good returner though).
Adam Thielen actually looks pretty good. And even though the story was shoved down our throats all Monday Night I think it's kind of cool he made the team at their "call of the wild" tryout, persevered a couple years on the PS and is now a starter at the NFL level.
PJ - yeah, I don't want to say Harris excelled at WR
because he didn't. But recall a few games with some decent production and a few TDs to boot...vs New Orleans and New England and maybe the Miami game(maybe?).
Nevertheless, just sayin' with some creativity on offense maybe we can get a few more players involved in the gameplan. They clearly need something...
Shepard has been invisible the last three weeks after a good start.
The offense needs to get him going again. We can rely on Beckham. We cant rely on cruz for more than a few "the route vs the defense dictated he'd be open" catches.
That's doesn't make you NFL ready, When you have those 2 things going against you it's tough to make an impact in the NFL early. he didn't have polish. Min coaches aren't happy with his route running at this point.
Thomas probably dropped a little because a few of the other guys put up sick workouts while he ran slow. He's made a few plays the last 3 weeks but nothing better than Shepard. It helps having that offense and QB in a dome.
Fuller and Coleman look good in the NFL. Haven't seen the Doctson.
Has D Harris gotten any snaps at WR
Jimmy Googs : 2:55 pm : link : reply
this year?
He is Our best KR PR and Gunner .
We have plenty of Bodies at WR Lewis King Powe and Davis .
I wish that somehow they get Davis some Play Time I think
he can become a solid contributor and he is exactly
what this teams needs outside of TE RB and O-line help .
At least we have depth at WR so no need to wear down
Harris ..
Lot of posters wanted this guy as I recall...
The draft is not only about this year, and I think Shepard will turn out to be a terrific pick. I also think New Orleans got a very good player.
Kind of an OBJ/Aaron Donald situation. Both teams are happy, you can split hairs over which choice was ultimately a better one.
Lot of posters wanted this guy as I recall...
It's early yet. But so far I'm just going to sit here and keep Whistlin' Dixie.
So while people harp on BPA BPA realistically the Giants might have had Thomas slightly ahead of Shepard or maybe they were even or maybe Shepard was their guy all along, who knows, but without a doubt slot receiver was a far bigger need on a team with Beckham than an outside receiver even with Thomas' size.
Would like him to keep his feet a bit more but assume that is rookie stuff...
I liked Treadwell too though so what do I know.
If you believed that Cruz was going to be finally ready to come back, like I did, I'm not sure how this is true. I usually agree with you... but I still think Cruz is a square peg in a round hole playing on the outside. He is best used as a slot receiver. Even if you weren't convinced regarding Cruz's recovery, the presence of Dwayne Harris, who played well in the slot last season, reduced the need for a slot receiver even more.
I think a legitimate outside threat to complement OBJ was a need in the draft, I still think it's a need today. The Giants will eventually solve it, and perhaps the solution is in-house already (Lewis, King?), but it will eventually get addressed. And perhaps that solution is Shepard outside. I think Shepard's strength, speed, and leaping ability would play outside better than Cruz... and perhaps it's just a matter of time for that to happen.
Quote:
but without a doubt slot receiver was a far bigger need on a team with Beckham than an outside receiver even with Thomas' size.
If you believed that Cruz was going to be finally ready to come back, like I did, I'm not sure how this is true. I usually agree with you... but I still think Cruz is a square peg in a round hole playing on the outside. He is best used as a slot receiver. Even if you weren't convinced regarding Cruz's recovery, the presence of Dwayne Harris, who played well in the slot last season, reduced the need for a slot receiver even more.
I think a legitimate outside threat to complement OBJ was a need in the draft, I still think it's a need today. The Giants will eventually solve it, and perhaps the solution is in-house already (Lewis, King?), but it will eventually get addressed. And perhaps that solution is Shepard outside. I think Shepard's strength, speed, and leaping ability would play outside better than Cruz... and perhaps it's just a matter of time for that to happen.
I say this because I read Cruz is playing outside to limit the pressure/risk to his knee. I admit I don't get all that, maybe less quick breaks and cuts outside vs slot, but at least that was my understanding.
Cruz didn't move to the outside to make room for Shepard, but Cruz moved to the outside for Cruz.
Originally the plan was for Shepard to play outside and Cruz back to his familiar slot position, according to the most of the beat writers, you can google it - tons of articles from OTA's, mini-camp and even post-draft.
but I think when Cruz couldn't get back on the field early in camp (or even late in camp) plans shifted and that's what makes Shepard so versatile and possibly contributed to drafting him over other WR's like Thomas.
I think next year you'll see a slot receiver added and Shepard moved outside opposite Beckham like was the plan during OTA's and post-draft and not sure Cruz comes back if he can't play slot. Just a guess - he makes a ton of money next year for the way he's used IMO.
I don't think so.
they prefer to have the WR be all the same size. I get the interchangeable aspect of that, but i feel like it is also limiting.
Same way ALWAYS going 3 wide is limiting.
and while i am at it i am really annoyed they didn't get a fullback after both FBs got injured.
The GB offense can be exciting and put up points, but it is also kinda soft. I've always thought that about WCO -except the shanahan branch- who really does run the ball. I think the TC influence on it was a good thing, in terms of sticking with the run, keeping more balance, keeping some power runs in the offense etc.
anyway, sry to divert from topic - i think shep was the pick because he fits the mold of what they want - but i personally think it is a narrow minded view and a flaw in the system / philosophy.
Love shep and think he will be a great slot receiver. agree that cruz is not as effective on the outside, and would love a bigger WR out there. Hope Thomas plays well cause i snaked him onto my FF team a couple weeks back.
Quote:
In comment 13181700 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
but without a doubt slot receiver was a far bigger need on a team with Beckham than an outside receiver even with Thomas' size.
If you believed that Cruz was going to be finally ready to come back, like I did, I'm not sure how this is true. I usually agree with you... but I still think Cruz is a square peg in a round hole playing on the outside. He is best used as a slot receiver. Even if you weren't convinced regarding Cruz's recovery, the presence of Dwayne Harris, who played well in the slot last season, reduced the need for a slot receiver even more.
I think a legitimate outside threat to complement OBJ was a need in the draft, I still think it's a need today. The Giants will eventually solve it, and perhaps the solution is in-house already (Lewis, King?), but it will eventually get addressed. And perhaps that solution is Shepard outside. I think Shepard's strength, speed, and leaping ability would play outside better than Cruz... and perhaps it's just a matter of time for that to happen.
I say this because I read Cruz is playing outside to limit the pressure/risk to his knee. I admit I don't get all that, maybe less quick breaks and cuts outside vs slot, but at least that was my understanding.
Cruz didn't move to the outside to make room for Shepard, but Cruz moved to the outside for Cruz.
Originally the plan was for Shepard to play outside and Cruz back to his familiar slot position, according to the most of the beat writers, you can google it - tons of articles from OTA's, mini-camp and even post-draft.
but I think when Cruz couldn't get back on the field early in camp (or even late in camp) plans shifted and that's what makes Shepard so versatile and possibly contributed to drafting him over other WR's like Thomas.
I think next year you'll see a slot receiver added and Shepard moved outside opposite Beckham like was the plan during OTA's and post-draft and not sure Cruz comes back if he can't play slot. Just a guess - he makes a ton of money next year for the way he's used IMO.
Very interesting, thanks. The explanation makes some sense. Cruz's game is really predicated on those quick cuts, I would like to see him on the field less if they feel like they have to protect the knee, just me. But hopefully Cruz will have more success as the season goes on. I'd like to see more of both Lewis and King, but Shepard I still believe will be a tremendous player.
they prefer to have the WR be all the same size. I get the interchangeable aspect of that, but i feel like it is also limiting.
Same way ALWAYS going 3 wide is limiting.
and while i am at it i am really annoyed they didn't get a fullback after both FBs got injured.
The GB offense can be exciting and put up points, but it is also kinda soft. I've always thought that about WCO -except the shanahan branch- who really does run the ball. I think the TC influence on it was a good thing, in terms of sticking with the run, keeping more balance, keeping some power runs in the offense etc.
anyway, sry to divert from topic - i think shep was the pick because he fits the mold of what they want - but i personally think it is a narrow minded view and a flaw in the system / philosophy.
Love shep and think he will be a great slot receiver. agree that cruz is not as effective on the outside, and would love a bigger WR out there. Hope Thomas plays well cause i snaked him onto my FF team a couple weeks back.
GB top 5 WR's:
Jordy Nelson: 6' 3" 215
Randall Cobb: 5' 10" 191
Davante Adams: 6' 1" 212
Ty Montgomery: 6' 0" 216
Jeff Janis: 6' 3" 219
these guys are not all the same size.
That said, Sy56 had Thomas (16th best WR prospect) well below Shephard (4th best), but with big upside.
New York Giants 2016 NFL Draft Preview: Wide Receivers - ( New Window )
I don't know, I'll see if I can dig it up, I didn't understand it either, but if you follow the beat writers and even some things from the team all the way from OTA's Cruz was the slot guy and Shepard outside until the very end of training camp.
I thought he played pretty well last year...a gamer for sure.
Not suggesting we should force him on the field, but he certainly isn't getting many touches in the ST game. He should still be considered a playmaker for us.
the Vikings have NOTHING at WR beyond Diggs and Treadwell can't just play the position he was drafted for by default...? Does not point to him being NFL ready. And I was a big Treadwell guy and thought he was the favorite for the Giants pick.
But, maybe it was just me, I thought he was wildly inconsistent in the passing game. drops, wrong routes (my assumption), and just missing passes that we're used to seeing a slot receiver make. He's a demon blocking, so maybe there is some utility for him in that role, but I felt like there was a reason Preston Parker was ahead of Harris on the depth chart and that's not saying much.
I also felt it became clear how Harris couldn't crack the WR rotation in 4 years in Dallas even with them scraping bottom of the barrel for receivers during Dez's injuries.
Maybe just my opinion.
the Vikings have NOTHING at WR beyond Diggs and Treadwell can't just play the position he was drafted for by default...? Does not point to him being NFL ready. And I was a big Treadwell guy and thought he was the favorite for the Giants pick.
This is on the heels of them using a first round pick on Cordarelle Patterson, who in 3+ years hasn't been able to crack the WR rotation consistently (good returner though).
Adam Thielen actually looks pretty good. And even though the story was shoved down our throats all Monday Night I think it's kind of cool he made the team at their "call of the wild" tryout, persevered a couple years on the PS and is now a starter at the NFL level.
Nevertheless, just sayin' with some creativity on offense maybe we can get a few more players involved in the gameplan. They clearly need something...
Thomas probably dropped a little because a few of the other guys put up sick workouts while he ran slow. He's made a few plays the last 3 weeks but nothing better than Shepard. It helps having that offense and QB in a dome.
Fuller and Coleman look good in the NFL. Haven't seen the Doctson.
Jimmy Googs : 2:55 pm : link : reply
this year?
He is Our best KR PR and Gunner .
We have plenty of Bodies at WR Lewis King Powe and Davis .
I wish that somehow they get Davis some Play Time I think
he can become a solid contributor and he is exactly
what this teams needs outside of TE RB and O-line help .
At least we have depth at WR so no need to wear down
Harris ..
I liked Powe's size, surprised he wasn't kept simply for that reason if it was close between he, King and Lewis.