..but he thinks he's Marty as a stickhandler outside the crease and he's clearly not. I've been going to games with my daughter for nearly 20 years and every time he goes outside the net we scream no!!! And that second goal was all in Hank, much as I love and value him.
You just can't miss on that many opportunities and win a game. Shit happens.. we're playing well. We'll win most nights if we play like this. Just need to convert when A+ chances arise.
Tittle, too. And like how're playing as well overall. But sorry to say, Hank got outplayed by Howard and lost the game on yet another boneheaded attempt to play the puck out of the crease. The PP failures and missed open nets contributed, but there is no reason for Hank at 35 to not know what he is good at and what he is poor at except for excessive pride and arrogance.
And I am in no way suggesting I don't want Hank on my team - I do , always - but it's AV's job to tell your star player to stay in the crease, just as it's Ben McAdoo's job to tell Odell to cut out the crap and just be one of the best receivers in the NFL. Unfortunately, in the world of sports these days star players pull more weight than their coaches.
During that part of the game where the goalies sumo wrestle each other, Hank should have suplexed Howard when he had the chance. Howard got the best of him.
The more patience I am willling to afford the defense, and the less willing I am to trade any of the top 9 forwards.
I thought Hayes looked the best I've seen him in a while last night.
Being at the game, McDonagh's skating, puck handling, and zone retention at the offensive blue line were amazing to watch.
I agree, I think the forward group/depth is going to be the strength of the team. The defense has been fine. We've given up a couple goals with big leads late which just looked like lack of focus goals and Hank made a stupid mistake last night. I think we've played as well as we could have hoped for in our end so far and I think there's definitely a stress in approach that is working.
I would be very opposed to sending someone like Miller away in a deal for Fowler. Play it out with the team we have for a few months and see where we're at in December/January.
I'd trade Miller before either Kreider or Hayes (I suspect I'm in the minority on this), but I wouldn't trade him for Fowler. Has to be for another cost-controlled asset.
I agree with hoya/arc - unless there's an obvious deal on the table, don't do anything.
RE: there's still a looming issue with the defense
So, since we all know Vigneault will put him right back in the lineup, who sits? I hope like hell it's Holden, but I'm pretty sure it will be Clendening.
I think his skill set is fairly necessary within the context of this team/D corps. Holden would make a lot more sense but AV doesn't always do what makes the most sense so I guess nothing would surprise me.
I'd trade Miller before either Kreider or Hayes (I suspect I'm in the minority on this), but I wouldn't trade him for Fowler. Has to be for another cost-controlled asset.
I agree with hoya/arc - unless there's an obvious deal on the table, don't do anything.
I'd trade Hayes for Fowler in a heartbeat. I couldn't sign my name fast enough. You guys I think like him more than I do (Hayes).
Money doesn't quite work, but years do I think.
Fowler is like a younger Yandle but IMO better defensively and still young enough to improve and I think Hayes has a low ceiling for his expectations.
Problem is I think it would cost more than Hayes for Fowler.
Something like Hayes and a pick or prospect.
I'd trade Miller too, but I don't think he's even a starter in a deal for Fowler like Hayes could be.
And I wouldn't trade Kreider unless it's for a D-man like gost or ekblad
Not a big fan of Fowler. I just don't think he's that good.
Fowler is an eite skater, fantastic offensive skills, great transition game, and improving defensively. Not very physical. We're have you heard this before?
He's a top 10 defenseman in the league under 25 IMO (though he'll be 25 this year).
Not a big fan of Fowler. I just don't think he's that good.
Fowler is an eite skater, fantastic offensive skills, great transition game, and improving defensively. Not very physical. We're have you heard this before?
He's a top 10 defenseman in the league under 25 IMO (though he'll be 25 this year).
would get Fowler straight up. I disagree that Fowler is on track to be a Yandle. Yandle was a 59 point player at the same age.
IMO it is rough projecting a high 20s/low-mid 30s defenseman to make the leap to 40-60 points. There's sort of a natural barrier where Fowler is (and has been outside of his rookie season). See enough ice time (Fowler's 23 mins) and most Ds will put up something in the 20s. E.g. Staal was a 27 and 29 point player before his concussion and eye injury. Girardi hovered in the mid 20s forever. McDonagh is not terribly offensive and yet has 110 points in 3 seasons.
Fowler's offensive isn't good enough to outweigh his D shortcomings
would get Fowler straight up. I disagree that Fowler is on track to be a Yandle. Yandle was a 59 point player at the same age.
IMO it is rough projecting a high 20s/low-mid 30s defenseman to make the leap to 40-60 points. There's sort of a natural barrier where Fowler is (and has been outside of his rookie season). See enough ice time (Fowler's 23 mins) and most Ds will put up something in the 20s. E.g. Staal was a 27 and 29 point player before his concussion and eye injury. Girardi hovered in the mid 20s forever. McDonagh is not terribly offensive and yet has 110 points in 3 seasons.
And then the next year Yandle was a 43-point player. And Yandle was never a 59-point player again in his career, so I wouldn't hold that season up as representative of Yandle.
That's like saying Fowler was a 40-point player at 19, Yandle wasn't so Fowler is better. Pure stat based assessments aren't what I'd use to gauge hockey player's values.
Fowler over an 82 game season will have very similar results as Yandle. They're very similar players.
And I doubt either Miller or Hayes could get Fowler straight up.
The Ducks talked about a trade with other teams and are looking for a top line forward back. Neither Miller or Hayes are that. But...the Ducks have a deep, young defense and last year were offensively challenged so maybe they would but I doubt it.
I think a Fowler/Vatanen for JT Miller and a prospect is realistic
Yandle at 24 was the best player on a 99 point team. Fowler is just a member of the cast there.
Also, you cant ignore Fowler's rookie season completely, but that was six years ago. He hasnt repeated that. He hasnt hit 10 goals or 40 points since. And he was -25 that year. Yes that's a loaded stat, but usually you see -25 on bad teams, not 99 point teams. The only guys close to him were a -15 and -18 from a 35 year old and a 37 year old. He had a +32 on his team.
He's got talent do doubt, but from results and watching him, I dont think he's valued like a young Yandle. Maybe a potential Yandle but not a likely Yandle let alone Yandle+. Also, and this is a terrible piece of evidence, but I just looked for Ducks previews, and 4 the first 5 (ESPN, Sportsnet, Hockey Writers, THN) dont even mention him. The NHL.com one notes him in groups (part the D corps anchored by Bieksa, one of guys who Carlyle helped develop when he was there bf) and to nominate him as the player on the hot seat.
You're obviously entitled to your opinion, but I think you value Fowler more than the consensus does. Link - ( New Window )
to get a youngish PMD RD given the glaring need there. I'd consider
One interesting thing in considering who can be traded is whether there is a tacit understanding that Hayes (and Vesey) chose to be here and that you dont sign him and trade him. How long would that understanding last. And is Miller committed to being here long term? Remember, Cally was traded because he wasnt taking a discount.
Yeah, and now they need to re-sign Lindholm. They're winless and they're up against the cap. We're not going to do them any favors....or at least we shouldn't.
Yandle at 24 was the best player on a 99 point team. Fowler is just a member of the cast there.
Also, you cant ignore Fowler's rookie season completely, but that was six years ago. He hasnt repeated that. He hasnt hit 10 goals or 40 points since. And he was -25 that year. Yes that's a loaded stat, but usually you see -25 on bad teams, not 99 point teams. The only guys close to him were a -15 and -18 from a 35 year old and a 37 year old. He had a +32 on his team.
He's got talent do doubt, but from results and watching him, I dont think he's valued like a young Yandle. Maybe a potential Yandle but not a likely Yandle let alone Yandle+. Also, and this is a terrible piece of evidence, but I just looked for Ducks previews, and 4 the first 5 (ESPN, Sportsnet, Hockey Writers, THN) dont even mention him. The NHL.com one notes him in groups (part the D corps anchored by Bieksa, one of guys who Carlyle helped develop when he was there bf) and to nominate him as the player on the hot seat.
You're obviously entitled to your opinion, but I think you value Fowler more than the consensus does. Link - ( New Window )
Definitely possible, but I believe people here value Hayes (and maybe Miller) more than the consensus, but we'll find out because of the Ducks defenseman I think Fowler is the most tradeable and the one they'd be willing to trade.
We should be undefeated but alas. Let's not do anything rash, Gorton
He's in the conversation with McDavid, Eichel, Matthews, etc.
A lot of good young talent in the NHL now, too bad it's banished to shit holes.
But, looking at the schedule, 2-3 to start the season was realistic. 3-2 looked like a big time win. Let's go fucking make it 3-2. Short memory.
And I am in no way suggesting I don't want Hank on my team - I do , always - but it's AV's job to tell your star player to stay in the crease, just as it's Ben McAdoo's job to tell Odell to cut out the crap and just be one of the best receivers in the NFL. Unfortunately, in the world of sports these days star players pull more weight than their coaches.
So freaking lazy.
I still like Clendening a lot. I'd give Raanta a lot of games early on since it looks like Henrik is starting off slow.
I thought Hayes looked the best I've seen him in a while last night.
Being at the game, McDonagh's skating, puck handling, and zone retention at the offensive blue line were amazing to watch.
I thought Hayes looked the best I've seen him in a while last night.
Being at the game, McDonagh's skating, puck handling, and zone retention at the offensive blue line were amazing to watch.
I agree, I think the forward group/depth is going to be the strength of the team. The defense has been fine. We've given up a couple goals with big leads late which just looked like lack of focus goals and Hank made a stupid mistake last night. I think we've played as well as we could have hoped for in our end so far and I think there's definitely a stress in approach that is working.
I would be very opposed to sending someone like Miller away in a deal for Fowler. Play it out with the team we have for a few months and see where we're at in December/January.
I agree with hoya/arc - unless there's an obvious deal on the table, don't do anything.
He should be the 7th D. It won't happen that way, though.
I agree with hoya/arc - unless there's an obvious deal on the table, don't do anything.
I'd trade Hayes for Fowler in a heartbeat. I couldn't sign my name fast enough. You guys I think like him more than I do (Hayes).
Money doesn't quite work, but years do I think.
Fowler is like a younger Yandle but IMO better defensively and still young enough to improve and I think Hayes has a low ceiling for his expectations.
Problem is I think it would cost more than Hayes for Fowler.
Something like Hayes and a pick or prospect.
I'd trade Miller too, but I don't think he's even a starter in a deal for Fowler like Hayes could be.
And I wouldn't trade Kreider unless it's for a D-man like gost or ekblad
Fowler is an eite skater, fantastic offensive skills, great transition game, and improving defensively. Not very physical. We're have you heard this before?
He's a top 10 defenseman in the league under 25 IMO (though he'll be 25 this year).
Quote:
Not a big fan of Fowler. I just don't think he's that good.
Fowler is an eite skater, fantastic offensive skills, great transition game, and improving defensively. Not very physical. We're have you heard this before?
He's a top 10 defenseman in the league under 25 IMO (though he'll be 25 this year).
*Where* have you heard this before?
IMO it is rough projecting a high 20s/low-mid 30s defenseman to make the leap to 40-60 points. There's sort of a natural barrier where Fowler is (and has been outside of his rookie season). See enough ice time (Fowler's 23 mins) and most Ds will put up something in the 20s. E.g. Staal was a 27 and 29 point player before his concussion and eye injury. Girardi hovered in the mid 20s forever. McDonagh is not terribly offensive and yet has 110 points in 3 seasons.
IMO it is rough projecting a high 20s/low-mid 30s defenseman to make the leap to 40-60 points. There's sort of a natural barrier where Fowler is (and has been outside of his rookie season). See enough ice time (Fowler's 23 mins) and most Ds will put up something in the 20s. E.g. Staal was a 27 and 29 point player before his concussion and eye injury. Girardi hovered in the mid 20s forever. McDonagh is not terribly offensive and yet has 110 points in 3 seasons.
And then the next year Yandle was a 43-point player. And Yandle was never a 59-point player again in his career, so I wouldn't hold that season up as representative of Yandle.
That's like saying Fowler was a 40-point player at 19, Yandle wasn't so Fowler is better. Pure stat based assessments aren't what I'd use to gauge hockey player's values.
Fowler over an 82 game season will have very similar results as Yandle. They're very similar players.
And I doubt either Miller or Hayes could get Fowler straight up.
The Ducks talked about a trade with other teams and are looking for a top line forward back. Neither Miller or Hayes are that. But...the Ducks have a deep, young defense and last year were offensively challenged so maybe they would but I doubt it.
Yandle at 24 was the best player on a 99 point team. Fowler is just a member of the cast there.
Also, you cant ignore Fowler's rookie season completely, but that was six years ago. He hasnt repeated that. He hasnt hit 10 goals or 40 points since. And he was -25 that year. Yes that's a loaded stat, but usually you see -25 on bad teams, not 99 point teams. The only guys close to him were a -15 and -18 from a 35 year old and a 37 year old. He had a +32 on his team.
He's got talent do doubt, but from results and watching him, I dont think he's valued like a young Yandle. Maybe a potential Yandle but not a likely Yandle let alone Yandle+. Also, and this is a terrible piece of evidence, but I just looked for Ducks previews, and 4 the first 5 (ESPN, Sportsnet, Hockey Writers, THN) dont even mention him. The NHL.com one notes him in groups (part the D corps anchored by Bieksa, one of guys who Carlyle helped develop when he was there bf) and to nominate him as the player on the hot seat.
You're obviously entitled to your opinion, but I think you value Fowler more than the consensus does.
Link - ( New Window )
One interesting thing in considering who can be traded is whether there is a tacit understanding that Hayes (and Vesey) chose to be here and that you dont sign him and trade him. How long would that understanding last. And is Miller committed to being here long term? Remember, Cally was traded because he wasnt taking a discount.
Link - ( New Window )
Yeah, and now they need to re-sign Lindholm. They're winless and they're up against the cap. We're not going to do them any favors....or at least we shouldn't.
Yandle at 24 was the best player on a 99 point team. Fowler is just a member of the cast there.
Also, you cant ignore Fowler's rookie season completely, but that was six years ago. He hasnt repeated that. He hasnt hit 10 goals or 40 points since. And he was -25 that year. Yes that's a loaded stat, but usually you see -25 on bad teams, not 99 point teams. The only guys close to him were a -15 and -18 from a 35 year old and a 37 year old. He had a +32 on his team.
He's got talent do doubt, but from results and watching him, I dont think he's valued like a young Yandle. Maybe a potential Yandle but not a likely Yandle let alone Yandle+. Also, and this is a terrible piece of evidence, but I just looked for Ducks previews, and 4 the first 5 (ESPN, Sportsnet, Hockey Writers, THN) dont even mention him. The NHL.com one notes him in groups (part the D corps anchored by Bieksa, one of guys who Carlyle helped develop when he was there bf) and to nominate him as the player on the hot seat.
You're obviously entitled to your opinion, but I think you value Fowler more than the consensus does. Link - ( New Window )
Definitely possible, but I believe people here value Hayes (and maybe Miller) more than the consensus, but we'll find out because of the Ducks defenseman I think Fowler is the most tradeable and the one they'd be willing to trade.
He's a RFA, I believe. Under team control
I think Fowler probably has more value than Miller in a trade, especially if both are UFA's after next year. I'm just not sure I'd do it if I'm NYR.
I don't think Miller has the first line potential Hayes does.