Josh Brown admits domestic violence per police documents

In comment 13183074 LatHarv83 said:

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You were aware he abused his wife, but you weren't sure of the extent? What? As if the presence of abuse wasn't bad enough. You knew about the pro bowl thing and kept him anyway? and you still aren't sure what you plan to do with him? My team is my team and I'm not going to stop being a Giant fan, but John Mara looks like a clown throughout this entire process. A total clown. At least jerry jones doesn't stand from his high horse and pretend to be something he isn't. And fuck josh brown and his "help", like the Giants are running some rehabilitation center for wife abusers.

Mara really is the worst of the offenders. He's goodells lap dog and loves to give his 2 cents on matters pertaining to other teams player discipline. Now he and Reese are nowhere to be seen and the players will be stuck to clean up his mess in London this week

pretty bushleague. If it turns out the Giants knew everything, I'm right here with you, until then I'll hold off on shitting all over them.

A slap across the face? A hard shove? And what provoked him to such anger?

When you are about to take a man's livelihood away from him, then you are obligated to follow closely the Fifth amendment.

The accused has the right to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor; and to have the assistance of counsel for his defense. to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor; and to have the assistance of counsel for his defence."

This amendment, as part of the Bill or Rights, was originally to supposed to effect the states from federal intrusion, but with the coming of the 14th amendment the states gained a Constitutional obligation to extend the Fifth Amendment right to include all inhabitants

Curious what he says.

that interview sucked. Generic answers.

be charged with two counts of 4th degree domestic assault. I have shown you that in Washington state, 4th degree domestic assault is filed when the injury to the other spouse is minor to none:

Domestic Violence Assault in the 4th degree charges are filed when there are allegations of a minor injury or no injury at all. For example, an allegation of unwanted touching would be enough physical contact for an arrest to be made.

If Brown had been punching his wife in the face 20 times, as many here seem to want to think, the detective in the case would not have told the local police to charge him with only 4th degree domestic assault. And the local officials never even charged him with the 4th degree charges. He has not been charged with anything, yet you want his head.

Sorry, but it just does not fit here that Gordon was a wife beater. The detective and other investigators thought that they could not prove through evidence nor the accused's statement more than 4th degree, and charges were never even filed at that level.

Mara and Tisch are honorable men and would not have brought Gordon back, against heavy media pressure, unless they were sure that, although Gordon was an unhappy man who had sinned against his wife, he was no wife beater. Now, standing up to the media again will be so stressful that they could not be blamed for caving.

This court is now in recess.

Who the hell is Gordon? Ya know, it would help your credibility a bit if you actually knew the guys name.

bashing the team when they actually endced up doing the right thing in the end.

Not sure why it is so hard to understand that time is needed for facts to come out and to take action. Cutting him a month ago vs. today really isn't a tangible topic.

In comment 13183126 SB 42 and 46 and ? said:

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be charged with two counts of 4th degree domestic assault. I have shown you that in Washington state, 4th degree domestic assault is filed when the injury to the other spouse is minor to none: Domestic Violence Assault in the 4th degree charges are filed when there are allegations of a minor injury or no injury at all. For example, an allegation of unwanted touching would be enough physical contact for an arrest to be made. If Brown had been punching his wife in the face 20 times, as many here seem to want to think, the detective in the case would not have told the local police to charge him with only 4th degree domestic assault. And the local officials never even charged him with the 4th degree charges. He has not been charged with anything, yet you want his head. Sorry, but it just does not fit here that Gordon was a wife beater. The detective and other investigators thought that they could not prove through evidence nor the accused's statement more than 4th degree, and charges were never even filed at that level. Mara and Tisch are honorable men and would not have brought Gordon back, against heavy media pressure, unless they were sure that, although Gordon was an unhappy man who had sinned against his wife, he was no wife beater. Now, standing up to the media again will be so stressful that they could not be blamed for caving. This court is now in recess.

Who the fuck is Gordon?

from coming forward.

The last thing an abused spouse wants is for the bread winner to get fired because there goes the alimony, the support, the medical insurance and the lifestyle. All this suspension and exile does is pump up NFL public relations and punish the abused spouse- again. These women are being put in the position of choosing between supporting their families and reporting.

If the NFL was concerned about anything but its image, it would force and pay for counseling and anger management for the player but let the player keep his career so he can support the family. But hey, whatever makes the public preeners feel good.

In comment 13183150 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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bashing the team when they actually endced up doing the right thing in the end. Not sure why it is so hard to understand that time is needed for facts to come out and to take action. Cutting him a month ago vs. today really isn't a tangible topic.

I usually agree with you, but Mara today said they knew about some of this. He should have been cut a while ago.

that would empower the abuser knowing that they won't lose their high paying job? Seems like a horrible idea in the grand scheme of things.

It's a terrible scenario but the wife is better off with less money and living on her own with her kids than having to live rich with someone beating on her. It's also a terrible environment for the kids to be a part of even if counseling is frequent. There's no guarantees that it even works.

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I usually agree with you, but Mara today said they knew about some of this. He should have been cut a while ago.

But why? Why do we get caught up in how quickly things are resolved instead of having them resolved correctly?

The never-ending quest to rush to judgment causes a lot of issues. As long as the proper result happens, does it really matter if it took 2 weeks or two months?

In comment 13183226 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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Quote: I usually agree with you, but Mara today said they knew about some of this. He should have been cut a while ago. But why? Why do we get caught up in how quickly things are resolved instead of having them resolved correctly? The never-ending quest to rush to judgment causes a lot of issues. As long as the proper result happens, does it really matter if it took 2 weeks or two months?

I think it does. The Giants had a chance to set the right example early on and failed.

sure you make the right decision in the end?

I'm not sure anyone gets bonus points for speed.

this is a side rant, but the rush to judgement really is a terrible trend these days. People wanting immediate justice for people like Michael Brown of the shooting victim in Charlotte are only shown that their initial calls would have been terrible to carry out before knowing the facts.

I said from Day 1 that the Giants would evaluate the evidence and hopefully come to the right decision, and it looks like they have. I really don't see any equity in making the decisions on August 24th vs. now unless we want to champion the idea that making a quick decision is more important than making the right one.

In comment 13183176 HomerJones45 said:

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from coming forward. The last thing an abused spouse wants is for the bread winner to get fired because there goes the alimony, the support, the medical insurance and the lifestyle. All this suspension and exile does is pump up NFL public relations and punish the abused spouse- again. These women are being put in the position of choosing between supporting their families and reporting. If the NFL was concerned about anything but its image, it would force and pay for counseling and anger management for the player but let the player keep his career so he can support the family. But hey, whatever makes the public preeners feel good.

Good post.

In comment 13183245 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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this is a side rant, but the rush to judgement really is a terrible trend these days. People wanting immediate justice for people like Michael Brown of the shooting victim in Charlotte are only shown that their initial calls would have been terrible to carry out before knowing the facts. I said from Day 1 that the Giants would evaluate the evidence and hopefully come to the right decision, and it looks like they have. I really don't see any equity in making the decisions on August 24th vs. now unless we want to champion the idea that making a quick decision is more important than making the right one.

I wouldn't consider it a rush to judgement when it sounds like Brown admitted to the offense to the Giants himself.

I'm not sure what benefit there is to being fast. In the end, if the right decision is made, isn't that the most important thing?

In comment 13183289 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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I'm not sure what benefit there is to being fast. In the end, if the right decision is made, isn't that the most important thing?

Rush to judgement? The owner of the Giants was on the air this afternoon and stated that Josh Brown previously told him all him all of his past transgressions and was completely forthcoming. Those were Mara's words, not mine. This indicates that the public destination of Brown's journal provided no additional information to the team, rather it simply made public what was privately known by Mara.

Great. So it was fine for Mara to know:
A) Brown assaulted a woman in college
B) Brown's wife & children were treated as if they were in the Witness Protection Program by NFL security personnel during the Pro Bowl, born out of fear of Brown
C) Brown himself admitted to the Giants everything to the extent that Mara was not "hoodwinked" by anything released within the last 24 hours

Not to mention the past restraining orders which may or may not have been known by the organization...an organization which, according to Mara, allowed the NFL to handle the vast majority of any investigation into the Brown matter. So much for due diligence.

So what has changed? Again, it's rather simple- the public has had the curtains pulled back. Public perception is the only new development. This was not a restrain on rushing to judgement- this was a clear hope & attempt to turn a blind eye on a shitty situation.

Boy, it's sure been fun for my wife, daughter, and I to have cheered on a fucking serial abuser for five weeks. Perhaps we can wait a few more years...just to be really sure that all of the evidence has emerged..before we reach a conclusion on how to handle Brown. No need to rush for judgement.

you rooted for a guy for five weeks instead of castrating him prior to the season.

Again - if the end result is the correct one, does 5 weeks really make a difference?

My point isn't if Brown should be reprimanded, cut, whatever - it is that there is some sort of nobility in doing it quickly.

I said from Day 1 that I hope the right decision is reached. It has been. Everything else is unnecessary bitching about it not being done fast enough for people's liking.

to the extent the Giants may not have known about all of Brown's transgressions until this was revealed, and to the extent he may have lied to them, moving today to replace him was STILL DUBIOUS given they at least knew about the pro bowl incident at the least. But at least still within some bounds of acceptability.

If they were not hoodwinked, then this is far from a rush to judgement. This is a long overdue public embarrassment and a black eye.

if they knew, they should not have signed him period.

In comment 13183289 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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I'm not sure what benefit there is to being fast. In the end, if the right decision is made, isn't that the most important thing?

The Giants knew that he and his wife had to be separated from each other at the pro bowl. But you're right, the Giants should be applauded for how they habdled this.

is a lot different than 'castrating' him........how about 'just desserts'?

I did not rush to judgement and assumed more facts would come out. These are serious allegations and I assumed that the league had some rationality and deemed a 1 game suspension appropriate because there was some circumstance we did not know about.

Wow, that was not the case.....

at what point did I say the Giants should be commended for the way they've handled anything?

I said the end result is the right one.

I don't know what the team knew or didn't. What I do know is that Josh Brown will not be a Giant any longer, which looks to be the right decision.

Is there really some sort of bonus points given for outrage over timing?

if they let him play this weekend, even if they removed him next week, it would have been awful. Otherwise, I understand your clarification.

In comment 13183332 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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you rooted for a guy for five weeks instead of castrating him prior to the season. Again - if the end result is the correct one, does 5 weeks really make a difference? My point isn't if Brown should be reprimanded, cut, whatever - it is that there is some sort of nobility in doing it quickly. I said from Day 1 that I hope the right decision is reached. It has been. Everything else is unnecessary bitching about it not being done fast enough for people's liking.

The negative implications of Brown playing five weeks is minimal (although I'm sure some folks might be more worked up over it than others). At this point I'd suggest that more animosity is being reserved for the Giants and the NFL rather than Brown, who clearly is a flawed person. This issue as it pertains to the Giants is that they previously knew all of the pertinent details that we now know at this point.

Mara clearly told Mike Francesa that he was aware of the depths of Brown's issue and that he did not feel that he was lied to and/or "hoodwinked" by Brown at any point. If that was the case then what new developments transpired within the past day? Sure, perhaps Mara didn't know that a journal existed but since he has implied that he was familiar with the contents of the journal, what difference should that medium make? The only development has been that the public became of aware of what Mara seemingly knew in confidence.

Sure, there may not be nobility in acting too soon but I'd argue that there is depravity in acting too late and only when prompted through the court of public opinion.

Exactly.

Look - I'm not sure at what point society demands perfection in handling all cases, but I've always been a person who just wants the right decisions to be made.

I don't know why people think if an immediate decision isn't made that somehow a ball was dropped. We've seen far too many cases like the Duke lacrosse situation where there is actually a detriment to rushing things.

In the end, if the Giants part ways with a self-admitted abuser it is the right decision. Killing tghem for resigning him or waiting until week 5 seems a bit odd.

On another note, I hope everyone on this thread never cheers for Adrian Peterson again, or wonders why he is still a Viking....

In comment 13183333 hassan said:

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to the extent the Giants may not have known about all of Brown's transgressions until this was revealed, and to the extent he may have lied to them, moving today to replace him was STILL DUBIOUS given they at least knew about the pro bowl incident at the least. But at least still within some bounds of acceptability. If they were not hoodwinked, then this is far from a rush to judgement. This is a long overdue public embarrassment and a black eye.

Hassan, from what I understand it is the latter rather than the former of what you just framed.

Mara was on with Mike Francesa around 5:30pm this evening and Mike asked him if at any point Josh Brown lied to him and if Mara felt "hoodwinked." Mara, to his credit, categorically denied that Brown had lied, misconstrued, or hid the details of his past. Mara mentioned that he had talked to Brown regarding the issues in the past, including the Pro Bowl incident, and was "comfortable" with the decision that they had made at the time to remain committed to Brown after his 1 week suspension.

AP is a total scumbag in so many ways let's not even start there. On top of that he's dramatically overpaid and clear his value is not that consequential to the Vikings. No rooting here for him.

The news of his sons death was made out to be a tragic day for him. Too bad he did not even know about or support said son until two days before the incident. Tragic for the child and the baby mama. But hard for it to be tragic for AP who did not know this human at all.

Phil Mushnik called him out rightfully so. And caught flak for that but was somewhat vindicated once we learned more.

I will say if they knew about this at the time resigning him was utterly poor judgement.

there is poor judgment going on here.

But I'd rather have a mistake be corrected in the end.

If there is a situation a team will probably be kept in the dark on, it is the goings on of a kicker. We can all think that there is a team of lackeys whose sole job it is to give dossiers of sensitive information on every member of the team, but we are talking about contract negotiations for one of the lowest played people on the team.

I hardly think there is some sort of intense scrutiny going on there.

Rafael Septien was supposedly caught molesting children and kept kicking for a little bit after that. There is a due process that I hope teams just abdicate.

Think about it - if we went on first reports, Jay Bromley would've been arrested for rape, Ezekiel Elliott would be arrested for sexual assault, etc.

I think Brown is scum for what he's reportedly done, but I really don't know why we are killing the team if the end result is the right one.

teams don't abdicate...

In comment 13183215 UConn4523 said:

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that would empower the abuser knowing that they won't lose their high paying job? Seems like a horrible idea in the grand scheme of things. It's a terrible scenario but the wife is better off with less money and living on her own with her kids than having to live rich with someone beating on her. It's also a terrible environment for the kids to be a part of even if counseling is frequent. There's no guarantees that it even works.

That is a pretty patronizing statement- live in poverty but we deem you better off. You would like to pick that option for her.

There's a third possibility: living on her own while being supported by her abuser's high paying job. Mrs. Rice has a fourth way- being supported by her husband's high paying job while he is receiving counseling and treatment. She was not afforded that option.

In comment 13183332 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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you rooted for a guy for five weeks instead of castrating him prior to the season. Again - if the end result is the correct one, does 5 weeks really make a difference? My point isn't if Brown should be reprimanded, cut, whatever - it is that there is some sort of nobility in doing it quickly. I said from Day 1 that I hope the right decision is reached. It has been. Everything else is unnecessary bitching about it not being done fast enough for people's liking.

I think where we fundamentally disagree is that I believe there is nobility in doing it quickly. John Mara knew about it and even re-signed (!!!) him. That's insanity.

What a post. Couldn't agree more with the way you laid all of that out. Great job

there are crazy situations that happen to players with ex-wives, girlfriends, etc.

I look at what some of the Panthers have had going on. There have been several who have had fraudulent charges levied against them from girlfriends and exes. Even in the Rae Carruth situation, there were rumors he was getting blackmailed by the girlfriend over having to take responsibility for the baby, and the team didn't step in. I wouldn't have expected them too.

It isn't even domestic issues. Jon Beason supposedly slept with some guy's girlfriend, so he made up a story that Beason assaulted him and was doing Coke. Beason was tied up in court for months battling that situation.

It sure looks like Brown is guilty, but I honestly don't know how involved teams get into these situations. Even if Mara was told Brown had issues, even by Brown himself, we don't know if they were downplayed as being the result of a crazy wife or an unhappy marriage. We can assume a lot of things, but my main point is that when all is said and done, the Giants made the right decision.

this badly.

He should have been cut as soon as they found out.

I know it's not the same as physical abuse, but it is something she hid until she was in her 40s and there have been tremendous impacts to her and our entire family. My point is I am very sensitive to abuse and the victims of abuse.

And I find the anger at the Maras and the Giants to be basically missing the point. The Giants aren't the issue here. Nor is the NFL. The issue is the treatment of women in our society in general. Sexual and physical abuse is easy to condemn - but whistling and yelling lewd comments is "funny" and just "guys being guys". The one good thing about Donald Trump is that he's hopefully opened a lot of eyes about the treatment of women as objects by a fair number of men.

The issue isn't what the Giants or NFL did in the past. Or frankly what they do in the future. I don't give a rats ass about the image of the NFL. What is important is protection of his wife and children. Their privacy. And their rights to move on with their lives - with help and support to hopefully a happier future than what appears to have been a horribly traumatic recent past.

The issue isn't what the Giants or NFL did in the past. Or frankly what they do in the future. I don't give a rats ass about the image of the NFL. What is important is protection of his wife and children. Their privacy. And their rights to move on with their lives - with help and support to hopefully a happier future than what appears to have been a horribly traumatic recent past. [/quote]

+1

saying timing does not matter one bit

That second part would be foolish enough a position to take, were it not for the added fact that they still havent actually released him, and John Mara was quoted just yesterday as saying it's too early to tell what they plan to do

This is a disgrace. John Mara is getting crushed nationally and he deserves every last ounce of it. People defending him here will defend anything Giants related apparently

Burberrymanning really hit this one out of the park

The fact that the Giants signed this piece of shit in the first place and then took him back after his one-game suspension is all I need to know.

When John Mara is interviewed on the radio, I've long thought he sounded like a bumbling, stammering idiot. Now I know he really is one.

Whew.

at times when it comes to allegiances.

"Nobody respects women more than I do. Believe me."

In comment 13182185 BurberryManning said:

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I went through painstaking detail to underscore why Occam's Razor would've led the reasonable person to conclude that Josh Brown was of poor character but many decried that Josh was innocent until proven guilty.

That thread was deplorable. People blaming the wife, calling her a gold digger, etc... Lot of crow to go eat and lots of egg to put on people's faces here.

In comment 13183373 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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If there is a situation a team will probably be kept in the dark on, it is the goings on of a kicker. We can all think that there is a team of lackeys whose sole job it is to give dossiers of sensitive information on every member of the team, but we are talking about contract negotiations for one of the lowest played people on the team.

I just had he chance to pick back up on this discussion and...wow. You want me to believe that one of the Giants' starting players, that actually happens to handle the ball multiple times each game, was of low priority to Mara and this is why his transgressions may have been overlooked? So now it's incompetence along with ignorance. Jesus Christ. Managing Directors across industry overlook more than 50 people but somehow maintain the ability to keep accords on those that they manage.

You are embarrassing yourself here, Fatman. You were wrong in the summer when I clearly articulated the case against Brown, you were wrong when you attempted to excuse the Giants this week via a lack of information, and you're laughably wrong to excuse Mara for not conducting due diligence on a player that he was committing $4mm to.

If this were a game thread you'd be one of the folks crying to Eric when your words were rightfully turned against you.