Josh Brown admits domestic violence per police documents

we've just ceded moral high ground as Giants fans. For a fn kicker.

it, that they used to work really hard to promote as truth. They've never been any different than the average NFL team in reality.

That they were willing to throw that illusion away on a 37 year old kicker though is actually pretty funny, in a sad way. They aren't even good at image control anymore.

Time to move the on. No one knows the real story but him and his wife and the athorities.

Leave this fucking kicker in England

Hopefully both Josh and his ex have moved on with their lives for the better.

Now make every FG you can this season...

high ground or illusion of one certainly wasn't my intent with the post.

I believe in a policy of rooting for laundry and while I obviously prefer not employing wife beaters or other criminals I trust the team vets people properly and I believe humans do dumb things, make mistakes, and just use bad judgment and when sincerely remorseful and it's not demonstrative of a repeated pattern once that behavior is confronted then they could potentially warrant a second chance.

So I'm not casting judgment on anyone. Totally possible Brown is a piece of shit and should be cut, but also possible he had a problem is remorseful and in the teams judgment deserves a second chance.

I'm not judging but I also don't have high tolerance for DV. Which is why I root for laundry. I'll let them team decide who should represent them and in between the lines I'll live with it.

especially considering he most likely knew these documents existed

He gets to paragraph TEN before the following:

"In many of the emails and journals, Josh seems to be apologetic and often filled with self-loathing for his actions."

Never change, Ralph.

In comment 13182024 yankees78 said:

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Leave this fucking kicker in England

That's not a bad idea. I'm sure he could play football for one of the lower division clubs.

the evidence against Brown to get him signed at a bargain price. He was 32-35 last year, a top kicker in the game and we signed him for 2 mil per.

Bargain price on a top of the line kicker, spend a little on PR damage control, it may not be an illusion but it got awfully quiet when Brown started hitting FGs. He's our most lethal scoring weapon outside of OBee.

They're in too deep now, they'll have to try and quash this also. Good thing we won last Sunday, all hell would be breaking loose if not.

In comment 13182030 Bobby Humphrey's Earpad said:

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He gets to paragraph TEN before the following: "In many of the emails and journals, Josh seems to be apologetic and often filled with self-loathing for his actions." Never change, Ralph.

Abusers claim being sorry all the time -- it doesn't mean a damn thing.

I gave him the benefit of the doubt but if all of that is accurate, see you later.

And to whoever thinks the Giants run an illusion of morality is ridiculous. We've employed questionable people before and I 100% believe they do a better job at avoiding players like this than most other franchises and I 100% know that we don't have enough information to question their ethics, especially in this case.

And really, how much can you beat a dead-horse? Oh wait, it's BBI. For years, if given the chance.

it was really weird all along that they didn't cut ties - and now it looks even worse. This is a bad look for Mara.

In comment 13182037 Devon said:

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In comment 13182030 Bobby Humphrey's Earpad said: Quote: He gets to paragraph TEN before the following: "In many of the emails and journals, Josh seems to be apologetic and often filled with self-loathing for his actions." Never change, Ralph. Abusers claim being sorry all the time -- it doesn't mean a damn thing.

It's an indictment of Ralph's writing style and not a defense of Brown. I could give a shit about Brown - you hit a woman you deserve what you get.

In comment 13182041 Dave in Hoboken said:

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And really, how much can you beat a dead-horse? Oh wait, it's BBI. For years, if given the chance.

Well there is kind of new information here or I wouldn't have posted it.

He seems to have prepared for therapeutic purposes. It's weird and uncomfortable that we ended up reading it. It's like voyeurism in the confessional. The most troubling part for me isn't what he wrote but that his wife said this happened 20 times.

smells of two alcoholics or drinkers who get nasty when boozed up. I'm sure it isn't a one way street, nor is it an excuse for abuse.

In comment 13182041 Dave in Hoboken said:

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And really, how much can you beat a dead-horse? Oh wait, it's BBI. For years, if given the chance.

h

Stupid comment.

This isn't beating a dead horse, this is possibly the final nail in our kicker's coffin. Get a clue dude.

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Additionally, Brown's wife writes in her own journal entry included in the police documents that Brown "pushes, shoves hits me because I challenge him" and that Brown "says women like me get hit because we can't shut up."

Fuck this asshole

In comment 13182047 Dunedin81 said:

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He seems to have prepared for therapeutic purposes. It's weird and uncomfortable that we ended up reading it. It's like voyeurism in the confessional. The most troubling part for me isn't what he wrote but that his wife said this happened 20 times.

Do you think it was just therapeutic or do you think maybe it was court ordered. Purely therapeutic I doubt would have been shared/leaked. Some legal infractions result in meetings with various counselors and reported back to the court with a recommendation for counseling or other dispositions.

In comment 13182050 Cruzin said:

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In comment 13182041 Dave in Hoboken said: Quote: And really, how much can you beat a dead-horse? Oh wait, it's BBI. For years, if given the chance. h Stupid comment. This isn't beating a dead horse, this is possibly the final nail in our kicker's coffin. Get a clue dude.

Doubtful. They probably would've released him already. They knew he beat his wife, even before the 'official documents' came out. Can't get rid of him until the end of the season now.

In comment 13182055 Dave in Hoboken said:

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In comment 13182050 Cruzin said: Quote: In comment 13182041 Dave in Hoboken said: Quote: And really, how much can you beat a dead-horse? Oh wait, it's BBI. For years, if given the chance. h Stupid comment. This isn't beating a dead horse, this is possibly the final nail in our kicker's coffin. Get a clue dude. Doubtful. They probably would've released him already. They knew he beat his wife, even before the 'official documents' came out. Can't get rid of him until the end of the season now.

I agree they knew more than they admitted to but depending on the backlash, they may not be able to deflect this.

We'll see.

In comment 13182054 pjcas18 said:

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In comment 13182047 Dunedin81 said: Quote: He seems to have prepared for therapeutic purposes. It's weird and uncomfortable that we ended up reading it. It's like voyeurism in the confessional. The most troubling part for me isn't what he wrote but that his wife said this happened 20 times. Do you think it was just therapeutic or do you think maybe it was court ordered. Purely therapeutic I doubt would have been shared/leaked. Some legal infractions result in meetings with various counselors and reported back to the court with a recommendation for counseling or other dispositions.

Therapeutic for court purposes, if turned over as part of an investigation into this incident, would suggest previous unreported court contact.

I think Brown might get cut on Monday.

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cut this dirt bag like they should have weeks ago. Never want to hear someone talk about how the Giants are a 'classy organization.' And people trying to rationalize this should be embarrassed

The NFL basically all but said they wanted to come down hard on him but the authorities wouldn't divulge everything.

If this is authenticated, this is the end of the line for his, as well it should be.

The Giants can only go on the evidence presented to them, and I doubt this was available and/or verified.

But these things are never pretty, there was a strong likelihood that something bad happened (and, cynically, a strong likelihood that it would become public). Should have cut him.

In comment 13182080 Ned In Atlanta said:

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cut this dirt bag like they should have weeks ago. Never want to hear someone talk about how the Giants are a 'classy organization.' And people trying to rationalize this should be embarrassed

Black and white as always, the world is grey, try it some time.

You have no idea what went on behind the scenes but you have no problem coming to that conclusion. Must be nice.

In comment 13182079 Mr. Bungle said:

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You're not on twitter - what the hell is the point of the hashtag?

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Enough
EJJ : 7:52 pm : link : reply
Time to move the on. No one knows the real story but him and his wife and the athorities.

Then why beat the dead horse....?
Everyone is so perfect around here . I don't advocate it
but it's way past time to move on ..

In comment 13182098 Greg from LI said:

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In comment 13182079 Mr. Bungle said: Quote: . You're not on twitter - what the hell is the point of the hashtag?

It's an NFL PSA, starring among others Eli Manning, about not making excuses for DV.

Not saying the hashtag makes sense here, but that is what he was referring to if you didn't know.
NFL No More PSA - ( New Window )

that's what really important right now. SMH. I gave him the benefit of doubt. You have to cut him now. Also he appears to think he is God too?

WTF?

offense well according to Federal district judges. Goodell don't want to take another loss in court.

as Goodell in the Ray Rice saga. Pathetic.

Get rid of Brown.

In comment 13182109 Mason said:

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offense well according to Federal district judges. Goodell don't want to take another loss in court.

He ultimately won the deflategate case. Which is really so terribly more important than domestic violence. Amirite Roger?

That they did this. Over an old kicker. I was giving the Giants the benefit of the doubt. What a disappointment.

Draft a kicker with range or sign a vet. But remove him after this week.

Really saying get over it and don't judge?? After the way this board scorned the Cowboys for being scummy?

Brown will pay for the sins of the AP and hardy and rice's of the world but it's also fair to say the league had its code of conduct and he needs to at least be in purgatory before any coming back.

For the London game and drop this wife beating POS.

I wasn't saying get over anything. I was saying while I don't have tolerance for DV I also don't feel like it's my moral obligation to pick and chose who plays for the NY Football Giants.

I prefer not to have anyone on the team that has committed domestic violence. But if I place my morals as the judge and jury as who should be a NY Giant where does it stop? DUI? Child support non-payment? wrecking a house? etc.

Maybe it's a cop out, but I feel any other approach sets me up to erase my own morals and move the line back or stop rooting for the Giants.

said he should not have been resigned just based on what the Giants knew at that time. Now this. Mara looks very bad. I agree it's too late to cut him this week, but he should be gone on Monday.

I went through painstaking detail to underscore why Occam's Razor would've led the reasonable person to conclude that Josh Brown was of poor character but many decried that Josh was innocent until proven guilty.

In comment 13182185 BurberryManning said:

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I went through painstaking detail to underscore why Occam's Razor would've led the reasonable person to conclude that Josh Brown was of poor character but many decried that Josh was innocent until proven guilty.

The fact that he's on the team is all many people need. If he was on the Cowboys it would be "What a loser organization!"

You statement was the most benign. But there are Grey areas. A harmless DUI ( I should say one in which no one got hurt)? Should be allowed once twice your gone. Marijuana is a joke and no one should lose a job in football over that in my mind. Drug racketeering like Hurd or Tyree? Gone.

Any whiff of DV that is confirmed beyond self defense (my understanding of what I thought was the case)......is not a grey area in my mind.

In comment 13182185 BurberryManning said:

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I went through painstaking detail to underscore why Occam's Razor would've led the reasonable person to conclude that Josh Brown was of poor character but many decried that Josh was innocent until proven guilty.

While that's probably true, is it really fair to apply occam's razor to someone's character without proper evidence? I'm not comfortable doing that even if we can reasonably assume something to be true.

Now is different than then since it appears we have more evidence.

In comment 13182190 hassan said:

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You statement was the most benign. But there are Grey areas. A harmless DUI ( I should say one in which no one got hurt)? Should be allowed once twice your gone. Marijuana is a joke and no one should lose a job in football over that in my mind. Drug racketeering like Hurd or Tyree? Gone. Any whiff of DV that is confirmed beyond self defense (my understanding of what I thought was the case)......is not a grey area in my mind.

Which is why I root for laundry. What are you going to do? Not root for the Giants? Doesn't that present a moral dilemma for you?

In comment 13182192 pjcas18 said:

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In comment 13182185 BurberryManning said: Quote: I went through painstaking detail to underscore why Occam's Razor would've led the reasonable person to conclude that Josh Brown was of poor character but many decried that Josh was innocent until proven guilty. While that's probably true, is it really fair to apply occam's razor to someone's character without proper evidence? I'm not comfortable doing that even if we can reasonably assume something to be true. Now is different than then since it appears we have more evidence.

That's a very strong point, PJ. Of course my observations come as a bystander hampered by an extreme lack of more detailed evidence/information. My assumption is that the NY Giants and the NFL had access to much more detailed information pertaining to the situation. Brett and I floated the idea the Giants dropped the ball from a due diligence perspective and I believe that this furthers that argument.

Prima facie, this situation stunk. Upon further review, it stinks a bit more.

In comment 13182136 hassan said:

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Really saying get over it and don't judge?? After the way this board scorned the Cowboys for being scummy? Brown will pay for the sins of the AP and hardy and rice's of the world but it's also fair to say the league had its code of conduct and he needs to at least be in purgatory before any coming back.

I disagreed with your assesment of Eli but wholeheartedly agree with you in this instance. Very well said.