Josh Brown will not travel with the team to London.
In light of the news reports regarding the documents released by the State of Washington yesterday, we think it makes sense to review this newly disclosed information and to revisit this issue following our trip to London.
The Giants do not condone or excuse any form of domestic violence. Josh has acknowledged that he has issues in his life and has been working on these issues through therapy and counseling for a long period of time.
This is the right decision. If something somehow comes out that makes him more sympathetic they bought themselves a little time. Based on what I know I hope they release him. Still, I don't know what I don't know and there may be more to this.
I don't care if Beckham winds up being our kicker, sometimes you need to take a stand. (And yes, I do realize that if he were a more "important" player the decision may have come out differently.)
right move obviously. But I hope they're not going to cut someone just to keep Brown on the roster because they need another kicker. Cut him now. He's never playing for the Giants again, so why wait?
I don't care if Beckham winds up being our kicker, sometimes you need to take a stand. (And yes, I do realize that if he were a more "important" player the decision may have come out differently.)
I fully admit I really wanted the "not so bad" version of this story to be true, bc he's been a good kicker. But if it's really as bad as it sounds based on this new info, agree 100%.
right move obviously. But I hope they're not going to cut someone just to keep Brown on the roster because they need another kicker. Cut him now. He's never playing for the Giants again, so why wait?
Maybe seeing if they can place him on commissioners exempt list so they have time to process the info.
It was known that he was a bad guy when he was initially signed. I remember bringing it up here.
They never should have signed him in the first place, but now at this point I think it's kind of crappy that a therapeutic measure he is taking to correct the behavior is now being used as the excuse to dump him.
I take this as PR damage control - nothing more noble than that.
It was known that he was a bad guy when he was initially signed. I remember bringing it up here.
They never should have signed him in the first place, but now at this point I think it's kind of crappy that a therapeutic measure he is taking to correct the behavior is now being used as the excuse to dump him.
I take this as PR damage control - nothing more noble than that.
Well, if the team's spin is correct, he blatantly lied to them and to the NFL about what his history of abusive behavior was.
As it is, they still aren't cutting him -- they're going to end up cutting some kid on the backend of the roster and take away his game check to keep this scumbag around at least another week.
There have been games where the Kicker has been injured and other player have had to kick or they have gone for it.
I would rather trust Eli to get the first down then Bullock or any other scrub kicker.
right move obviously. But I hope they're not going to cut someone just to keep Brown on the roster because they need another kicker. Cut him now. He's never playing for the Giants again, so why wait?
The cut decision is easy - Johnson, the 3rd QB they never needed to begin with
It was known that he was a bad guy when he was initially signed. I remember bringing it up here.
They never should have signed him in the first place, but now at this point I think it's kind of crappy that a therapeutic measure he is taking to correct the behavior is now being used as the excuse to dump him.
I take this as PR damage control - nothing more noble than that.
It was known that he was a bad guy when he was initially signed. I remember bringing it up here.
They never should have signed him in the first place, but now at this point I think it's kind of crappy that a therapeutic measure he is taking to correct the behavior is now being used as the excuse to dump him.
I take this as PR damage control - nothing more noble than that.
Well, if the team's spin is correct, he blatantly lied to them and to the NFL about what his history of abusive behavior was.
As it is, they still aren't cutting him -- they're going to end up cutting some kid on the backend of the roster and take away his game check to keep this scumbag around at least another week.
I guess I have to rescind this, given Mara just admitting that Brown admitted to them he abused his wife.
Albert Breer @AlbertBreer
Giants owner John Mara on Josh Brown: "He admitted to us he'd abused his wife in the past. What's a little unclear is the extent of that."
Unreal how big of frauds this organization looks like right now.
There have been games where the Kicker has been injured and other player have had to kick or they have gone for it.
I would rather trust Eli to get the first down then Bullock or any other scrub kicker.
Stop it. Bullock has been an NFL kicker for like 4 years if it's him we will be fine.
RE: RE: RE: I wouldn't claim any moral high ground
Albert Breer @AlbertBreer
Giants owner John Mara on Josh Brown: "He admitted to us he'd abused his wife in the past. What's a little unclear is the extent of that."
Unreal how big of frauds this organization looks like right now.
It was known that he was a bad guy when he was initially signed. I remember bringing it up here.
They never should have signed him in the first place, but now at this point I think it's kind of crappy that a therapeutic measure he is taking to correct the behavior is now being used as the excuse to dump him.
I take this as PR damage control - nothing more noble than that.
Well, if the team's spin is correct, he blatantly lied to them and to the NFL about what his history of abusive behavior was.
As it is, they still aren't cutting him -- they're going to end up cutting some kid on the backend of the roster and take away his game check to keep this scumbag around at least another week.
The Giants didn't say that Brown lied.
I think they have some questions to answer about their investigation into the matter
9 mins ago - View on Twitter
Giants owner John Mara says he's talked to Josh Brown "several times" today: "I think he's attempted to be honest with us."
9 mins ago - View on Twitter
Giants owner John Mara says he's talked to Josh Brown "several times" today: "I think he's attempted to be honest with us."
by Albert Breer
RE: RE: RE: RE: I wouldn't claim any moral high ground
Albert Breer @AlbertBreer
Giants owner John Mara on Josh Brown: "He admitted to us he'd abused his wife in the past. What's a little unclear is the extent of that."
Unreal how big of frauds this organization looks like right now.
9 mins ago - View on Twitter
Giants owner John Mara says he's talked to Josh Brown "several times" today: "I think he's attempted to be honest with us."
It sounds to me like he answered with the bare minimum of detail and they didn't push very hard for the truth.
here is what Rotoworld is reporting about the Giants and NFL knowing...
Giants K Josh Brown will not travel with the team to London for its Week 7 game against the Rams.
Brown beat his wife multiple times, and new evidence came to light Wednesday night and more continues to come out Thursday. The NFL and the Giants said they were "unaware" of the new findings, but it's been revealed this afternoon that the league actually helped Brown's now-ex-wife switch hotel rooms at the Pro Bowl in January after a drunk Brown was pounding on the room door. Brown is certain to be released in the near future. Amazing that it hasn't happened yet.
Josh Brown seems like a sick man and football is his last worry
But before yesterday
1. The Giants knew his wife had alleged he had beaten her 20 times
2. That he had been arrested for this multiple times before being resigned
3. According to the reports today, he was honest and had told the Giants that he had assaulted his wife.
So, my question is how does a letter radically change the story. The Giants knew he was a bad guy, and if he admitted to it already why did we resign him and why are we taking action today? The Giants made their bed and if they are a classy organization they should not throw this guy to the wolves because some reporter got a letter he had written most likely while seeking help. I am furious the Giants resigned him, think Brown is a sick man who shouldn't be in football, am horrified by the letter, but as a fan I think our owners and GM not only screwed up morally when they resigned him, but screwed our team by leaving us vulnerable to this.
hope I'm wrong, but it sounds like the Giants aren't going to cut him even if they don't get an exemption. My guess is Sensabaugh gets cut for a kicker. His salary isn't guaranteed, and he was a mid season pickup. Unfair.
RE: Josh Brown seems like a sick man and football is his last worry
But before yesterday
1. The Giants knew his wife had alleged he had beaten her 20 times
2. That he had been arrested for this multiple times before being resigned
3. According to the reports today, he was honest and had told the Giants that he had assaulted his wife.
So, my question is how does a letter radically change the story. The Giants knew he was a bad guy, and if he admitted to it already why did we resign him and why are we taking action today? The Giants made their bed and if they are a classy organization they should not throw this guy to the wolves because some reporter got a letter he had written most likely while seeking help. I am furious the Giants resigned him, think Brown is a sick man who shouldn't be in football, am horrified by the letter, but as a fan I think our owners and GM not only screwed up morally when they resigned him, but screwed our team by leaving us vulnerable to this.
yup. They made their decision back in March, re upped on that after week one and are now tucking tail. Cowardly move.
Disagree. Whether they should have signed him (before McAdoo took over as HC) or not based on what they did know AT THE TIME, is moot..Now that it's come to light, they proceeded acfording to their morals protocol..
The Giants knew all of this beforehand. Now that the public knows about it they suspend him. This is a PR move, and it's kinda sad to see all the "Golly gee, I sure am proud of the Giants!" posts. What are you proud of, that they were fine having a serial abuser on the roster until the latest information came out?
RE: RE: This is a huge black eye for this franchise
Disagree. Whether they should have signed him (before McAdoo took over as HC) or not based on what they did know AT THE TIME, is moot..Now that it's come to light, they proceeded acfording to their morals protocol..
I don't even see a brown eye here..
Come on man, there is no new info here.
They knew he beat his wife back in september, if not earlier
RE: RE: This is a huge black eye for this franchise
Disagree. Whether they should have signed him (before McAdoo took over as HC) or not based on what they did know AT THE TIME, is moot..Now that it's come to light, they proceeded acfording to their morals protocol..
I don't even see a brown eye here..
It seems like Mara and Co. KNEW that Brown abused his wife, Doc. I mean abuse can range, but there should be strict liability. Once they knew about the abuse, they should've cut bait.
But before yesterday
1. The Giants knew his wife had alleged he had beaten her 20 times
2. That he had been arrested for this multiple times before being resigned
3. According to the reports today, he was honest and had told the Giants that he had assaulted his wife.
So, my question is how does a letter radically change the story. The Giants knew he was a bad guy, and if he admitted to it already why did we resign him and why are we taking action today? The Giants made their bed and if they are a classy organization they should not throw this guy to the wolves because some reporter got a letter he had written most likely while seeking help. I am furious the Giants resigned him, think Brown is a sick man who shouldn't be in football, am horrified by the letter, but as a fan I think our owners and GM not only screwed up morally when they resigned him, but screwed our team by leaving us vulnerable to this.
yup. They made their decision back in March, re upped on that after week one and are now tucking tail. Cowardly move.
Not excusing Brown for his actions
It doesn't excuse Brown, he is a psychopath and needs help desperately. BUT, I am so sick of organizations thinking they can get away with being sly and letting this shit go and now it's us the fans who have to pay for this sweeping it under the rug. Let NFL suspend him, the Giants shouldn't get the chance to look like a "classy" organization in this matter.
A team that was at the forefront of the No More campaign turned immediately around and signed and stood by a kicker that they KNEW abused his wife, including knowledge of the incident at the Pro Bowl just months before re-signing him. They're still standing by this scumbag even now, st the expense of someone's roster spot.
The Gusnts deserve to wear this and have it badly tarnish their image, including any negative outcomes having to re-open this now brings on the field of play.
RE: RE: RE: This is a huge black eye for this franchise
Disagree. Whether they should have signed him (before McAdoo took over as HC) or not based on what they did know AT THE TIME, is moot..Now that it's come to light, they proceeded acfording to their morals protocol..
I don't even see a brown eye here..
It seems like Mara and Co. KNEW that Brown abused his wife, Doc. I mean abuse can range, but there should be strict liability. Once they knew about the abuse, they should've cut bait.
I agree. He should not have gotten a pass even for the incident they knew about..He should not have been re-signed, period, imv
If they stood by him at this point. Say they knew, the admissions that are coming out know were a part of counseling and they will continue to stand by him as he deals with his problems.
Now they look either combo of inept fools and scumbags.
A team that was at the forefront of the No More campaign turned immediately around and signed and stood by a kicker that they KNEW abused his wife, including knowledge of the incident at the Pro Bowl just months before re-signing him. They're still standing by this scumbag even now, st the expense of someone's roster spot.
The Gusnts deserve to wear this and have it badly tarnish their image, including any negative outcomes having to re-open this now brings on the field of play.
You do know what moot means, right? It means debatable..I would not have re-signed him after ONE incident, others would have. That makes it moot
because now we don't have a kicker because the Giants were so stupid in not dealing with this in the first place. This could cost us a game, but the paying fan, judging by this board seems like we all would have cut bait with Brown way before today. It really bothers me on every level.
They did not know anything more than that incident..Neither did the NFL..They know now. They acted accordingly
They knew about the incident he got suspended for.
They knew about the pro bowl incident.
Brown admitted to them that he physically abused his wife.
If they didn't know the full details, its because they didn't WANT to know
A team that was at the forefront of the No More campaign turned immediately around and signed and stood by a kicker that they KNEW abused his wife, including knowledge of the incident at the Pro Bowl just months before re-signing him. They're still standing by this scumbag even now, st the expense of someone's roster spot.
The Gusnts deserve to wear this and have it badly tarnish their image, including any negative outcomes having to re-open this now brings on the field of play.
You do know what moot means, right? It means debatable..I would not have re-signed him after ONE incident, others would have. That makes it moot
Mara admitted Brown admitted to them he was abusive and the Pro Bowl incident was seemingly separate information.
The Giants look like complete shit in this situation, in a close to inarguabke way, given their highly public pandering about DA and the constant "classy" drumbeating. It's okay to admit it and not stand by them on this one thing.
It was known that he was a bad guy when he was initially signed. I remember bringing it up here.
They never should have signed him in the first place, but now at this point I think it's kind of crappy that a therapeutic measure he is taking to correct the behavior is now being used as the excuse to dump him.
I take this as PR damage control - nothing more noble than that.
is that these new sanctions are based on stuff he revealed about his past. If he had committed another act of abuse, kick him out of the league. No problem with that.
But he is being penalized for stuff he revealed in therapy when he was trying to overcome his problems. Admitting what you have done is generally recognized as the first step to getting better as a person. But now you better not reveal anything about your past because it will be used against you. This is not even stuff he did as a Giant.
hope I'm wrong, but it sounds like the Giants aren't going to cut him even if they don't get an exemption. My guess is Sensabaugh gets cut for a kicker. His salary isn't guaranteed, and he was a mid season pickup. Unfair.
Cut a LB, like Skinner, instead.
Regardless of what they should have done (any guy that abuses
his wife/partner should be banned for life, but that's just me), the dilemma for the Giants had to be, as it relates to the team, this:
Do you bring him to London and have every question by our media and the English media be about Brown and disrupt the psyche of the team?
Or, given how important to the team and this game he might be production-wise, do you let him play and then release him with the two weeks off coming up?
Obviously they made their choice. A good one, imo
RE: Regardless of what they should have done (any guy that abuses
his wife/partner should be banned for life, but that's just me), the dilemma for the Giants had to be, as it relates to the team, this:
Do you bring him to London and have every question by our media and the English media be about Brown and disrupt the psyche of the team?
Or, given how important to the team and this game he might be production-wise, do you let him play and then release him with the two weeks off coming up?
Obviously they made their choice. A good one, imo
Wouldn't they face questions either way..going or not going? Whole situation is ugly
his wife/partner should be banned for life, but that's just me), the dilemma for the Giants had to be, as it relates to the team, this:
Do you bring him to London and have every question by our media and the English media be about Brown and disrupt the psyche of the team?
Or, given how important to the team and this game he might be production-wise, do you let him play and then release him with the two weeks off coming up?
Obviously they made their choice. A good one, imo
Wouldn't they face questions either way..going or not going? Whole situation is ugly
Probably, but less intense without his presence..Imho
It was known that he was a bad guy when he was initially signed. I remember bringing it up here.
They never should have signed him in the first place, but now at this point I think it's kind of crappy that a therapeutic measure he is taking to correct the behavior is now being used as the excuse to dump him.
I take this as PR damage control - nothing more noble than that.
Could you elaborate on that ? What was known about Brown at the time of his original signing ?
I can't remember specifically what it was, but there was shit floating around about him back when he was with St. Louis. I found this article from August 2013 (the Giants signed him March 2013) where he refers to having been drinking too much.
But there was something before that too. I just can't remember what. I do remember not wanting to let Tynes, who had the heart of a lion, walk for this guy.
I will say again though that it doesn't sit right with me that part of Brown's therapeutic attempt to correct this terrible behavior is now being used against him. Link - ( New Window )
RE: Josh Brown seems like a sick man and football is his last worry
But before yesterday
1. The Giants knew his wife had alleged he had beaten her 20 times
2. That he had been arrested for this multiple times before being resigned
3. According to the reports today, he was honest and had told the Giants that he had assaulted his wife.
I'm not kidding either! He can catch (obviously), run, throw (either hand), and kick. I'd say it opens up possibilities for a fake but if he's back there to kick a defense would be ready for anything out of the ordinary already.
is that these new sanctions are based on stuff he revealed about his past. If he had committed another act of abuse, kick him out of the league. No problem with that.
But he is being penalized for stuff he revealed in therapy when he was trying to overcome his problems. Admitting what you have done is generally recognized as the first step to getting better as a person. But now you better not reveal anything about your past because it will be used against you. This is not even stuff he did as a Giant.
But he appealed his initial suspension and eventually received only 1 game because he lied. Had this information and these admissions come to light a year ago, his suspension would have been longer and he likely would not have been re-signed.
Why would anyone want Beckham to even be a consideration
Right? I'm sure that will go just swimmingly. Wouldn't be surprised if we lose by a FG on Sunday. Not predicting it. Just saying I wouldn't be surprised knowing the Giants luck in recent years.
RE: Why would anyone want Beckham to even be a consideration
Pure entertainment. It's not ideal but since he has dabbled, I would be amused to see it eventually. Plus, how bad is it really? I don't know the answer to that.
For all that Brown did, whatever it was, the Detective on the scene recommended that two counts of 4th Degree Domestic Assault be filed. Thus far not even those charges have been filed.
Here is what a leading Washington law firm specializing in Domestic Law said about that:
Domestic Violence assault charges are extremely common in Washington State, due to laws that require very little evidence for an arrest to be made. Often times, false and exaggerated statements are made to the police after a heated domestic dispute.
Domestic Violence Assault in the 4th degree charges are filed when there are allegations of a minor injury or no injury at all. For example, an allegation of unwanted touching would be enough physical contact for an arrest to be made.
Under these conditions most of us have probably violated Washington's Domestic Assault, 4th degree.
The man deserves his day in court, with the right to face his accuser and have the details come out. And yes I practiced law formerly, and was involved in enough domestic law cases to know that in most cases of divorce the parties go after each other with no holds barred.
If Brown had been punching his wife in the face 20 times, as many here seem to want to think, the detective in the case would not have told the local police to charge him with only 4th degree domestic assault. And the local officials never even charged him with the 4th degree charges. He has not been charged with anything, yet you want his head.
Sorry, but it just does not fit here that Gordon was a wife beater. The detective and other investigators thought that they could not prove through evidence nor the accused's statement more than 4th degree, and charges were never even filed at that level.
Mara and Tisch are honorable men and would not have brought Gordon back, against heavy media pressure, unless they were sure that, although Gordon was an unhappy man who had sinned against his wife, he was no wife beater. Now, standing up to the media again will be so stressful that they could not be blamed for caving.
Acting as if you are holier than thou are sickening. As a six year old boy being sexually molested as reports have it was Josh a scumbag and low life?? Shit happens in life that warps ones mind. Not making excuses for this man but have some empathy. The Giant organization knows more about this than you know it alls have in your pinky nail.
Come down off your holier than thou pulpits!
RE: No evidence points to violence by Brown against his wife.
For all that Brown did, whatever it was, the Detective on the scene recommended that two counts of 4th Degree Domestic Assault be filed. Thus far not even those charges have been filed.
Here is what a leading Washington law firm specializing in Domestic Law said about that:
Domestic Violence assault charges are extremely common in Washington State, due to laws that require very little evidence for an arrest to be made. Often times, false and exaggerated statements are made to the police after a heated domestic dispute.
Domestic Violence Assault in the 4th degree charges are filed when there are allegations of a minor injury or no injury at all. For example, an allegation of unwanted touching would be enough physical contact for an arrest to be made.
Under these conditions most of us have probably violated Washington's Domestic Assault, 4th degree.
The man deserves his day in court, with the right to face his accuser and have the details come out. And yes I practiced law formerly, and was involved in enough domestic law cases to know that in most cases of divorce the parties go after each other with no holds barred.
If Brown had been punching his wife in the face 20 times, as many here seem to want to think, the detective in the case would not have told the local police to charge him with only 4th degree domestic assault. And the local officials never even charged him with the 4th degree charges. He has not been charged with anything, yet you want his head.
Sorry, but it just does not fit here that Gordon was a wife beater. The detective and other investigators thought that they could not prove through evidence nor the accused's statement more than 4th degree, and charges were never even filed at that level.
Mara and Tisch are honorable men and would not have brought Gordon back, against heavy media pressure, unless they were sure that, although Gordon was an unhappy man who had sinned against his wife, he was no wife beater. Now, standing up to the media again will be so stressful that they could not be blamed for caving.
Please, just consider for a moment the areas that do not support the conclusion that he was violent to his wife. The detective's recommendation that be be charged under the mildest domestic law of the state, local officials not charging him even under that law. These men are under the same zero tolerance for wife abusers pressure as is the NFL.
You know that the wife in these cases is not a trustworthy witness against her husband. If she had been beaten 20 times, where is the third party proof from someone who saw her after any one of those beatings.
And I believe that Mara and Tisch have shown themselves over the the years to be men of integrity. Even if you don't agree that they acted in good faith after talking extensively to the man, believe that they would have not kept Brown because even they cannot withstand the pressure of all the media coming down on them.
And I apologize to the late Jim Gordon, to whom I listened doing play-by-play to so many Ranger games.
and bleeds Giant blue and is savvy enough to know how good a kicker Brown is has said from day one he should be gone. Every time he has come out to kick this year she has been angry. Sometimes we should listen to our 12 year olds...
RE: Again in this thread this guy is babbling about
First, it's a hip injury (hip pointer to be precise), not a leg injury. Second, he put up over 200 yards with 2 TDs AFTER the hip pointer. Third, he's certainly not afraid of the spotlight so I doubt he would choke. Forth, he has a soccer background and strongly considered a soccer career before deciding on football. This is how he has the leg strength and accuracy to kick those field goals from the videos in the first place.
Sorry, I'm just not concerned about him kicking the ball (health wise) and I did say in a pinch.
Acting as if you are holier than thou are sickening. As a six year old boy being sexually molested as reports have it was Josh a scumbag and low life?? Shit happens in life that warps ones mind. Not making excuses for this man but have some empathy. The Giant organization knows more about this than you know it alls have in your pinky nail.
A team that was at the forefront of the No More campaign turned immediately around and signed and stood by a kicker that they KNEW abused his wife, including knowledge of the incident at the Pro Bowl just months before re-signing him. They're still standing by this scumbag even now, st the expense of someone's roster spot.
The Gusnts deserve to wear this and have it badly tarnish their image, including any negative outcomes having to re-open this now brings on the field of play.
You do know what moot means, right? It means debatable..I would not have re-signed him after ONE incident, others would have. That makes it moot
doing 'time' for the degree of his attacks on his wife and his continuing in the nfl on the Giants are two separate matters.
First of all nfl is at will employer. A player can be cut anytime for any reason.
He admitted that he was engaged in domestic abuse. Multiple times. Not merely in self defense which was the implication he gave.........and its clear there is a good likelihood he misled the Giants during the offseason in securing a contract.
Which means he probably lied and is probably someone who has hit his wife on several occasions. Enough given the reality of the spotlight the nfl is in regarding this issue.
They made a bad decision. I do not believe Wellington would have resigned him.
We complain either way. We want will Bill on the team when he violates the drug policy. We want theorists to be more like other teams with players with a checkered past.
Then we kill them for Brown.
No one wins here. Brown will never play in the league again. His children and wife are permanently impacted.
It's bad and the moral thing to do is to release him.
The guy is logging what happened to help with his rehabilitation and to make him a better man. Yes he screwed up, he has admitted it and is moving on. Now they take what he was using to get well to use it against him. This to me is just wrong. Suspend him for whatever many games, but to me he is doing what he is supposed to do to become a better man. I find it odd that what he is doing to get himself well is being used against him to get him fired.
doing 'time' for the degree of his attacks on his wife and his continuing in the nfl on the Giants are two separate matters.
First of all nfl is at will employer. A player can be cut anytime for any reason.
He admitted that he was engaged in domestic abuse. Multiple times. Not merely in self defense which was the implication he gave.........and its clear there is a good likelihood he misled the Giants during the offseason in securing a contract.
Which means he probably lied and is probably someone who has hit his wife on several occasions. Enough given the reality of the spotlight the nfl is in regarding this issue.
I don't recall him ever saying or implying self defense.
A few idiots here put out hypotheticals along that vein but Brown of the Giants never did.
Off the field he isnt a problem. I think on the field is whats troubling the Giants more. Im only thinking and dont kill me. Im thinking that he was in the process of getting help for it. Maybe they are saying that since he is getting help for his issues, they just cant turn their back on him. im just guessing.
My interpretation of this is that they knew based on talking with Brown that he did indeed hit his wife before he was re-signed, and with that information, and knowing that he was in therapy for it, they decided to sign him anyway?
Is this what everybody else is getting from it?
It's a questionable decision to treat a wife-beater with a "hate the sin, not the sinner" type of hand, but I don't think they're scum for doing it.
Does anyone actually believe that the team was so singularly focused on "winning" that they just chose to ignore all of this? We're talking about a kicker. If they were going to sell their souls for winning, they would probably have done so with a more impactful type of player or talent.
In light of the news reports regarding the documents released by the State of Washington yesterday, we think it makes sense to review this newly disclosed information and to revisit this issue following our trip to London.
The Giants do not condone or excuse any form of domestic violence. Josh has acknowledged that he has issues in his life and has been working on these issues through therapy and counseling for a long period of time.
We remain supportive of Josh and his efforts.
I fully admit I really wanted the "not so bad" version of this story to be true, bc he's been a good kicker. But if it's really as bad as it sounds based on this new info, agree 100%.
I guess the good news is that they do seem to be gold standard in kicker evaluation.
It's gotta be Randy Bullock this week. Hope he has a passport.
Maybe seeing if they can place him on commissioners exempt list so they have time to process the info.
They never should have signed him in the first place, but now at this point I think it's kind of crappy that a therapeutic measure he is taking to correct the behavior is now being used as the excuse to dump him.
I take this as PR damage control - nothing more noble than that.
You'll say that until they keep failing on 4th down.
It will likely be him.
They never should have signed him in the first place, but now at this point I think it's kind of crappy that a therapeutic measure he is taking to correct the behavior is now being used as the excuse to dump him.
I take this as PR damage control - nothing more noble than that.
Well, if the team's spin is correct, he blatantly lied to them and to the NFL about what his history of abusive behavior was.
As it is, they still aren't cutting him -- they're going to end up cutting some kid on the backend of the roster and take away his game check to keep this scumbag around at least another week.
I would rather trust Eli to get the first down then Bullock or any other scrub kicker.
The cut decision is easy - Johnson, the 3rd QB they never needed to begin with
I agree with Go Terps -- Brown should not have been on the team.
Owen Farrell - England Rugby player - ( New Window )
They never should have signed him in the first place, but now at this point I think it's kind of crappy that a therapeutic measure he is taking to correct the behavior is now being used as the excuse to dump him.
I take this as PR damage control - nothing more noble than that.
Well said
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It was known that he was a bad guy when he was initially signed. I remember bringing it up here.
They never should have signed him in the first place, but now at this point I think it's kind of crappy that a therapeutic measure he is taking to correct the behavior is now being used as the excuse to dump him.
I take this as PR damage control - nothing more noble than that.
Well, if the team's spin is correct, he blatantly lied to them and to the NFL about what his history of abusive behavior was.
As it is, they still aren't cutting him -- they're going to end up cutting some kid on the backend of the roster and take away his game check to keep this scumbag around at least another week.
I guess I have to rescind this, given Mara just admitting that Brown admitted to them he abused his wife.
Albert Breer @AlbertBreer
Giants owner John Mara on Josh Brown: "He admitted to us he'd abused his wife in the past. What's a little unclear is the extent of that."
Unreal how big of frauds this organization looks like right now.
I would rather trust Eli to get the first down then Bullock or any other scrub kicker.
Stop it. Bullock has been an NFL kicker for like 4 years if it's him we will be fine.
Albert Breer @AlbertBreer
Giants owner John Mara on Josh Brown: "He admitted to us he'd abused his wife in the past. What's a little unclear is the extent of that."
Unreal how big of frauds this organization looks like right now.
+1,000. Wow.
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It was known that he was a bad guy when he was initially signed. I remember bringing it up here.
They never should have signed him in the first place, but now at this point I think it's kind of crappy that a therapeutic measure he is taking to correct the behavior is now being used as the excuse to dump him.
I take this as PR damage control - nothing more noble than that.
Well, if the team's spin is correct, he blatantly lied to them and to the NFL about what his history of abusive behavior was.
As it is, they still aren't cutting him -- they're going to end up cutting some kid on the backend of the roster and take away his game check to keep this scumbag around at least another week.
The Giants didn't say that Brown lied.
I think they have some questions to answer about their investigation into the matter
Giants owner John Mara says he's talked to Josh Brown "several times" today: "I think he's attempted to be honest with us."
Giants owner John Mara says he's talked to Josh Brown "several times" today: "I think he's attempted to be honest with us."
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Albert Breer @AlbertBreer
Giants owner John Mara on Josh Brown: "He admitted to us he'd abused his wife in the past. What's a little unclear is the extent of that."
Unreal how big of frauds this organization looks like right now.
+1,000. Wow.
+10,000. Unreal.
Click here for 660 McAdoo is live now... - ( New Window )
Giants owner John Mara says he's talked to Josh Brown "several times" today: "I think he's attempted to be honest with us."
It sounds to me like he answered with the bare minimum of detail and they didn't push very hard for the truth.
Giants K Josh Brown will not travel with the team to London for its Week 7 game against the Rams.
Brown beat his wife multiple times, and new evidence came to light Wednesday night and more continues to come out Thursday. The NFL and the Giants said they were "unaware" of the new findings, but it's been revealed this afternoon that the league actually helped Brown's now-ex-wife switch hotel rooms at the Pro Bowl in January after a drunk Brown was pounding on the room door. Brown is certain to be released in the near future. Amazing that it hasn't happened yet.
1. The Giants knew his wife had alleged he had beaten her 20 times
2. That he had been arrested for this multiple times before being resigned
3. According to the reports today, he was honest and had told the Giants that he had assaulted his wife.
So, my question is how does a letter radically change the story. The Giants knew he was a bad guy, and if he admitted to it already why did we resign him and why are we taking action today? The Giants made their bed and if they are a classy organization they should not throw this guy to the wolves because some reporter got a letter he had written most likely while seeking help. I am furious the Giants resigned him, think Brown is a sick man who shouldn't be in football, am horrified by the letter, but as a fan I think our owners and GM not only screwed up morally when they resigned him, but screwed our team by leaving us vulnerable to this.
Look I don't love Randy Bullock but he has hit 80% of his field goals in his career. Josh Brown has hit 83%
It is an infinitely better idea than the other suggestions here which include Beckham, Wing and a Rugby Player.
In 2011 bears played in London, Robbie Gould played in that game and has a passport... just saying
1. The Giants knew his wife had alleged he had beaten her 20 times
2. That he had been arrested for this multiple times before being resigned
3. According to the reports today, he was honest and had told the Giants that he had assaulted his wife.
So, my question is how does a letter radically change the story. The Giants knew he was a bad guy, and if he admitted to it already why did we resign him and why are we taking action today? The Giants made their bed and if they are a classy organization they should not throw this guy to the wolves because some reporter got a letter he had written most likely while seeking help. I am furious the Giants resigned him, think Brown is a sick man who shouldn't be in football, am horrified by the letter, but as a fan I think our owners and GM not only screwed up morally when they resigned him, but screwed our team by leaving us vulnerable to this.
yup. They made their decision back in March, re upped on that after week one and are now tucking tail. Cowardly move.
Not excusing Brown for his actions
Disagree. Whether they should have signed him (before McAdoo took over as HC) or not based on what they did know AT THE TIME, is moot..Now that it's come to light, they proceeded acfording to their morals protocol..
I don't even see a brown eye here..
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Disagree. Whether they should have signed him (before McAdoo took over as HC) or not based on what they did know AT THE TIME, is moot..Now that it's come to light, they proceeded acfording to their morals protocol..
I don't even see a brown eye here..
Come on man, there is no new info here.
They knew he beat his wife back in september, if not earlier
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Disagree. Whether they should have signed him (before McAdoo took over as HC) or not based on what they did know AT THE TIME, is moot..Now that it's come to light, they proceeded acfording to their morals protocol..
I don't even see a brown eye here..
It seems like Mara and Co. KNEW that Brown abused his wife, Doc. I mean abuse can range, but there should be strict liability. Once they knew about the abuse, they should've cut bait.
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But before yesterday
1. The Giants knew his wife had alleged he had beaten her 20 times
2. That he had been arrested for this multiple times before being resigned
3. According to the reports today, he was honest and had told the Giants that he had assaulted his wife.
So, my question is how does a letter radically change the story. The Giants knew he was a bad guy, and if he admitted to it already why did we resign him and why are we taking action today? The Giants made their bed and if they are a classy organization they should not throw this guy to the wolves because some reporter got a letter he had written most likely while seeking help. I am furious the Giants resigned him, think Brown is a sick man who shouldn't be in football, am horrified by the letter, but as a fan I think our owners and GM not only screwed up morally when they resigned him, but screwed our team by leaving us vulnerable to this.
yup. They made their decision back in March, re upped on that after week one and are now tucking tail. Cowardly move.
Not excusing Brown for his actions
It doesn't excuse Brown, he is a psychopath and needs help desperately. BUT, I am so sick of organizations thinking they can get away with being sly and letting this shit go and now it's us the fans who have to pay for this sweeping it under the rug. Let NFL suspend him, the Giants shouldn't get the chance to look like a "classy" organization in this matter.
The Gusnts deserve to wear this and have it badly tarnish their image, including any negative outcomes having to re-open this now brings on the field of play.
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In comment 13183043 Anakim said:
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Disagree. Whether they should have signed him (before McAdoo took over as HC) or not based on what they did know AT THE TIME, is moot..Now that it's come to light, they proceeded acfording to their morals protocol..
I don't even see a brown eye here..
It seems like Mara and Co. KNEW that Brown abused his wife, Doc. I mean abuse can range, but there should be strict liability. Once they knew about the abuse, they should've cut bait.
I agree. He should not have gotten a pass even for the incident they knew about..He should not have been re-signed, period, imv
Now they look either combo of inept fools and scumbags.
The Gusnts deserve to wear this and have it badly tarnish their image, including any negative outcomes having to re-open this now brings on the field of play.
You do know what moot means, right? It means debatable..I would not have re-signed him after ONE incident, others would have. That makes it moot
They knew about the incident he got suspended for.
They knew about the pro bowl incident.
Brown admitted to them that he physically abused his wife.
If they didn't know the full details, its because they didn't WANT to know
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A team that was at the forefront of the No More campaign turned immediately around and signed and stood by a kicker that they KNEW abused his wife, including knowledge of the incident at the Pro Bowl just months before re-signing him. They're still standing by this scumbag even now, st the expense of someone's roster spot.
The Gusnts deserve to wear this and have it badly tarnish their image, including any negative outcomes having to re-open this now brings on the field of play.
You do know what moot means, right? It means debatable..I would not have re-signed him after ONE incident, others would have. That makes it moot
Mara admitted Brown admitted to them he was abusive and the Pro Bowl incident was seemingly separate information.
The Giants look like complete shit in this situation, in a close to inarguabke way, given their highly public pandering about DA and the constant "classy" drumbeating. It's okay to admit it and not stand by them on this one thing.
They never should have signed him in the first place, but now at this point I think it's kind of crappy that a therapeutic measure he is taking to correct the behavior is now being used as the excuse to dump him.
I take this as PR damage control - nothing more noble than that.
Nice to read a post based upon common sense.
But he is being penalized for stuff he revealed in therapy when he was trying to overcome his problems. Admitting what you have done is generally recognized as the first step to getting better as a person. But now you better not reveal anything about your past because it will be used against you. This is not even stuff he did as a Giant.
Cut a LB, like Skinner, instead.
Do you bring him to London and have every question by our media and the English media be about Brown and disrupt the psyche of the team?
Or, given how important to the team and this game he might be production-wise, do you let him play and then release him with the two weeks off coming up?
Obviously they made their choice. A good one, imo
Do you bring him to London and have every question by our media and the English media be about Brown and disrupt the psyche of the team?
Or, given how important to the team and this game he might be production-wise, do you let him play and then release him with the two weeks off coming up?
Obviously they made their choice. A good one, imo
Wouldn't they face questions either way..going or not going? Whole situation is ugly
After all the black eyes the league had with this topic two years ago? He's an embarrassment.
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his wife/partner should be banned for life, but that's just me), the dilemma for the Giants had to be, as it relates to the team, this:
Do you bring him to London and have every question by our media and the English media be about Brown and disrupt the psyche of the team?
Or, given how important to the team and this game he might be production-wise, do you let him play and then release him with the two weeks off coming up?
Obviously they made their choice. A good one, imo
Wouldn't they face questions either way..going or not going? Whole situation is ugly
Probably, but less intense without his presence..Imho
Don t you ever get tired of being part of the lynch mob.
They never should have signed him in the first place, but now at this point I think it's kind of crappy that a therapeutic measure he is taking to correct the behavior is now being used as the excuse to dump him.
I take this as PR damage control - nothing more noble than that.
Could you elaborate on that ? What was known about Brown at the time of his original signing ?
They probably also know about the restraining order violation and the incident in college.
But there was something before that too. I just can't remember what. I do remember not wanting to let Tynes, who had the heart of a lion, walk for this guy.
I will say again though that it doesn't sit right with me that part of Brown's therapeutic attempt to correct this terrible behavior is now being used against him.
Link - ( New Window )
1. The Giants knew his wife had alleged he had beaten her 20 times
2. That he had been arrested for this multiple times before being resigned
3. According to the reports today, he was honest and had told the Giants that he had assaulted his wife.
Wow, is this true. Coming in a bit late.
Wow, just, wtf Giants?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIM894w2yjQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mT9KPDlocxM
And for good measure, has any player ever scored on a FG/Extra Point, Punt/Kickoff Return, and on Offense?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDC9G5-c0g8
But he is being penalized for stuff he revealed in therapy when he was trying to overcome his problems. Admitting what you have done is generally recognized as the first step to getting better as a person. But now you better not reveal anything about your past because it will be used against you. This is not even stuff he did as a Giant.
Right? I'm sure that will go just swimmingly. Wouldn't be surprised if we lose by a FG on Sunday. Not predicting it. Just saying I wouldn't be surprised knowing the Giants luck in recent years.
Pure entertainment. It's not ideal but since he has dabbled, I would be amused to see it eventually. Plus, how bad is it really? I don't know the answer to that.
Here is what a leading Washington law firm specializing in Domestic Law said about that:
Domestic Violence assault charges are extremely common in Washington State, due to laws that require very little evidence for an arrest to be made. Often times, false and exaggerated statements are made to the police after a heated domestic dispute.
Domestic Violence Assault in the 4th degree charges are filed when there are allegations of a minor injury or no injury at all. For example, an allegation of unwanted touching would be enough physical contact for an arrest to be made.
Under these conditions most of us have probably violated Washington's Domestic Assault, 4th degree.
The man deserves his day in court, with the right to face his accuser and have the details come out. And yes I practiced law formerly, and was involved in enough domestic law cases to know that in most cases of divorce the parties go after each other with no holds barred.
If Brown had been punching his wife in the face 20 times, as many here seem to want to think, the detective in the case would not have told the local police to charge him with only 4th degree domestic assault. And the local officials never even charged him with the 4th degree charges. He has not been charged with anything, yet you want his head.
Sorry, but it just does not fit here that Gordon was a wife beater. The detective and other investigators thought that they could not prove through evidence nor the accused's statement more than 4th degree, and charges were never even filed at that level.
Mara and Tisch are honorable men and would not have brought Gordon back, against heavy media pressure, unless they were sure that, although Gordon was an unhappy man who had sinned against his wife, he was no wife beater. Now, standing up to the media again will be so stressful that they could not be blamed for caving.
This court is now in recess.
Come down off your holier than thou pulpits!
Here is what a leading Washington law firm specializing in Domestic Law said about that:
Domestic Violence assault charges are extremely common in Washington State, due to laws that require very little evidence for an arrest to be made. Often times, false and exaggerated statements are made to the police after a heated domestic dispute.
Domestic Violence Assault in the 4th degree charges are filed when there are allegations of a minor injury or no injury at all. For example, an allegation of unwanted touching would be enough physical contact for an arrest to be made.
Under these conditions most of us have probably violated Washington's Domestic Assault, 4th degree.
The man deserves his day in court, with the right to face his accuser and have the details come out. And yes I practiced law formerly, and was involved in enough domestic law cases to know that in most cases of divorce the parties go after each other with no holds barred.
If Brown had been punching his wife in the face 20 times, as many here seem to want to think, the detective in the case would not have told the local police to charge him with only 4th degree domestic assault. And the local officials never even charged him with the 4th degree charges. He has not been charged with anything, yet you want his head.
Sorry, but it just does not fit here that Gordon was a wife beater. The detective and other investigators thought that they could not prove through evidence nor the accused's statement more than 4th degree, and charges were never even filed at that level.
Mara and Tisch are honorable men and would not have brought Gordon back, against heavy media pressure, unless they were sure that, although Gordon was an unhappy man who had sinned against his wife, he was no wife beater. Now, standing up to the media again will be so stressful that they could not be blamed for caving.
This court is now in recess.
We the Jury have reached a verdict.
Sounds to me like you're a guy who needs a good beating.
If your looking for facts here and have come to a conclusion, well you my friend are lost as usual.
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Can't really find anything here to defend the Giants for. Just an awful job by Mara on down.
If your looking for facts here and have come to a conclusion, well you my friend are lost as usual.
First off *you're
Secondly, what the fuck are you talking about?
Thirdly, who are you?
You know that the wife in these cases is not a trustworthy witness against her husband. If she had been beaten 20 times, where is the third party proof from someone who saw her after any one of those beatings.
And I believe that Mara and Tisch have shown themselves over the the years to be men of integrity. Even if you don't agree that they acted in good faith after talking extensively to the man, believe that they would have not kept Brown because even they cannot withstand the pressure of all the media coming down on them.
And I apologize to the late Jim Gordon, to whom I listened doing play-by-play to so many Ranger games.
Maybe he meant Gorton?
[img)http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_os5jaQQeK8U/TD3X7YQlnfI/AAAAAAAAASc/D55OiCz0rm8/s1600/12.fish-stick-uniform.jpg[/img]
Totally agree. I'm not proud to be a Giants fan today. If Mara knew Brown hit his wife and kept him on the team...
First, it's a hip injury (hip pointer to be precise), not a leg injury. Second, he put up over 200 yards with 2 TDs AFTER the hip pointer. Third, he's certainly not afraid of the spotlight so I doubt he would choke. Forth, he has a soccer background and strongly considered a soccer career before deciding on football. This is how he has the leg strength and accuracy to kick those field goals from the videos in the first place.
Sorry, I'm just not concerned about him kicking the ball (health wise) and I did say in a pinch.
Come down off your holier than thou pulpits!
When is this shithead troll going to be banned??
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A team that was at the forefront of the No More campaign turned immediately around and signed and stood by a kicker that they KNEW abused his wife, including knowledge of the incident at the Pro Bowl just months before re-signing him. They're still standing by this scumbag even now, st the expense of someone's roster spot.
The Gusnts deserve to wear this and have it badly tarnish their image, including any negative outcomes having to re-open this now brings on the field of play.
You do know what moot means, right? It means debatable..I would not have re-signed him after ONE incident, others would have. That makes it moot
Moot does not mean debatable.
Bad job by the Giants here.
First of all nfl is at will employer. A player can be cut anytime for any reason.
He admitted that he was engaged in domestic abuse. Multiple times. Not merely in self defense which was the implication he gave.........and its clear there is a good likelihood he misled the Giants during the offseason in securing a contract.
Which means he probably lied and is probably someone who has hit his wife on several occasions. Enough given the reality of the spotlight the nfl is in regarding this issue.
We complain either way. We want will Bill on the team when he violates the drug policy. We want theorists to be more like other teams with players with a checkered past.
Then we kill them for Brown.
No one wins here. Brown will never play in the league again. His children and wife are permanently impacted.
It's bad and the moral thing to do is to release him.
NFL needs to suspend him for at least a year
Sign another kicker and move the fuck on
They're not wrong. He told Mara he HIT his wife. But let's worry about Odell talking back to the refs!
First of all nfl is at will employer. A player can be cut anytime for any reason.
He admitted that he was engaged in domestic abuse. Multiple times. Not merely in self defense which was the implication he gave.........and its clear there is a good likelihood he misled the Giants during the offseason in securing a contract.
Which means he probably lied and is probably someone who has hit his wife on several occasions. Enough given the reality of the spotlight the nfl is in regarding this issue.
I don't recall him ever saying or implying self defense.
A few idiots here put out hypotheticals along that vein but Brown of the Giants never did.
Is this what everybody else is getting from it?
It's a questionable decision to treat a wife-beater with a "hate the sin, not the sinner" type of hand, but I don't think they're scum for doing it.
Does anyone actually believe that the team was so singularly focused on "winning" that they just chose to ignore all of this? We're talking about a kicker. If they were going to sell their souls for winning, they would probably have done so with a more impactful type of player or talent.