is the same one that Ray Rice has had (and Hardy and AP did NOT have). It's that CK sucks at football. Therefore, teams aren't willing to put up with anything that might be a distraction.
I was wondering how long this would take to become a race Â
He claims he's bi-racial and who knows maybe he is, but the problem he creates is there is legitimate racism out there - a lot of it, and by claiming racism when it's not there, he makes it harder on the people who need to understand and act on the legitimate claims to believe them.
It's the activists like King that create a divide, not unity or awareness. they creative defensiveness which divides. IMO.
kaepernick I know many of people white, black, Asian and latino who despise him for his actions so i would have to disagree with that comparison. However, Ray Rice and Floyd mayweather were definitely raked through the coals by the media and NFL fans. As a black man who's actually a conservative who despises the race card i have to call a duck a duck. I don't think the Giants went around protecting Josh Brown because he's white that's just stupid to even assert that. However, the vitriol that these two guys received from the fans was definitely different than what Josh from received. Josh was Brown wasn't condemned or exalted his case was pretty much ignored. Had he been black he would have been killed by the media and fans.
race baiting mother fucker. Figures that he works for the Daily News...piece of shit newspaper too.
He must have bought Sharpton's book.
Meanwhile, if his problem is that the Brown thing has not gotten as much attention, then he should look no farther than the media itself. It is the media that decides what we get exposed to. Every time CK takes a knee during the national anthem, the cameras are on him AND he is intentionally doing this for all to see. If Brown was beating the shit out of his wife on the sideline during the anthem, or a video tape of him doing it like Ray Rice, then I am sure the discussion would be much different.
kaepernick I know many of people white, black, Asian and latino who despise him for his actions so i would have to disagree with that comparison. However, Ray Rice and Floyd mayweather were definitely raked through the coals by the media and NFL fans. As a black man who's actually a conservative who despises the race card i have to call a duck a duck. I don't think the Giants went around protecting Josh Brown because he's white that's just stupid to even assert that. However, the vitriol that these two guys received from the fans was definitely different than what Josh from received. Josh was Brown wasn't condemned or exalted his case was pretty much ignored. Had he been black he would have been killed by the media and fans.
I have to disagree. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but if there was a video of Josh Brown sucker punching his wife in a hotel elevator and dragging her unconscious body out of the elevator by her hair the reaction would have been identical to Ray Rice.
With the information that was released about Brown at the time it sounded nowhere near as severe as Rice. Now I'm not going to suggest any level of severity of domestic violence is acceptable, but I will say the accompanying outrage and perception will undoubtedly be tied to severity, and evidence. right or wrong. Not race IMO.
Unless you have a video of a white player doing what Rice did, it's all your opinion. And one that I disagree with.
kaepernick I know many of people white, black, Asian and latino who despise him for his actions so i would have to disagree with that comparison. However, Ray Rice and Floyd mayweather were definitely raked through the coals by the media and NFL fans. As a black man who's actually a conservative who despises the race card i have to call a duck a duck. I don't think the Giants went around protecting Josh Brown because he's white that's just stupid to even assert that. However, the vitriol that these two guys received from the fans was definitely different than what Josh from received. Josh was Brown wasn't condemned or exalted his case was pretty much ignored. Had he been black he would have been killed by the media and fans.
Brown's been killed by the media and fans, though. There is something that would have made it worse, but it's not race. If Brown were in any way famous or recognizable, there'd be a much bigger backlash.
If Hardy had been a practice squad DE and not re-signed by the Cowboys, you can bet your wallet that he'd have had the same treatment as Brown, who will slip into oblivion once he's released.
kaepernick I know many of people white, black, Asian and latino who despise him for his actions so i would have to disagree with that comparison. However, Ray Rice and Floyd mayweather were definitely raked through the coals by the media and NFL fans. As a black man who's actually a conservative who despises the race card i have to call a duck a duck. I don't think the Giants went around protecting Josh Brown because he's white that's just stupid to even assert that. However, the vitriol that these two guys received from the fans was definitely different than what Josh from received. Josh was Brown wasn't condemned or exalted his case was pretty much ignored. Had he been black he would have been killed by the media and fans.
I have to disagree. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but if there was a video of Josh Brown sucker punching his wife in a hotel elevator and dragging her unconscious body out of the elevator by her hair the reaction would have been identical to Ray Rice.
With the information that was released about Brown at the time it sounded nowhere near as severe as Rice. Now I'm not going to suggest any level of severity of domestic violence is acceptable, but I will say the accompanying outrage and perception will undoubtedly be tied to severity, and evidence. right or wrong. Not race IMO.
Unless you have a video of a white player doing what Rice did, it's all your opinion. And one that I disagree with.
Ok So you want to use video evidence as the reason why the vitriol was different well fine have it your way. Let's say your right about Ray Rice and the video i don't recall there being a video of Floyd Mayweather beating the mother of his kids but that didn't stop the outrage against him. See the reason why we can't and will never get past racism in this country is because some people use the race card in every situation even when it doesn't apply. On the other hand some white people will fail to understand that there's a difference between the way black people are punished or viewed in this country.
kaepernick I know many of people white, black, Asian and latino who despise him for his actions so i would have to disagree with that comparison. However, Ray Rice and Floyd mayweather were definitely raked through the coals by the media and NFL fans. As a black man who's actually a conservative who despises the race card i have to call a duck a duck. I don't think the Giants went around protecting Josh Brown because he's white that's just stupid to even assert that. However, the vitriol that these two guys received from the fans was definitely different than what Josh from received. Josh was Brown wasn't condemned or exalted his case was pretty much ignored. Had he been black he would have been killed by the media and fans.
I have to disagree. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but if there was a video of Josh Brown sucker punching his wife in a hotel elevator and dragging her unconscious body out of the elevator by her hair the reaction would have been identical to Ray Rice.
With the information that was released about Brown at the time it sounded nowhere near as severe as Rice. Now I'm not going to suggest any level of severity of domestic violence is acceptable, but I will say the accompanying outrage and perception will undoubtedly be tied to severity, and evidence. right or wrong. Not race IMO.
Unless you have a video of a white player doing what Rice did, it's all your opinion. And one that I disagree with.
Ok So you want to use video evidence as the reason why the vitriol was different well fine have it your way. Let's say your right about Ray Rice and the video i don't recall there being a video of Floyd Mayweather beating the mother of his kids but that didn't stop the outrage against him. See the reason why we can't and will never get past racism in this country is because some people use the race card in every situation even when it doesn't apply. On the other hand some white people will fail to understand that there's a difference between the way black people are punished or viewed in this country.
I don't disagree that in some cases there is absolutely a difference in how black people are viewed in this country. no question.
I don't think it applies in this specific case.
Take a look for yourself, the link below is the NFL arrest database. See how many of the people of all races committed crimes and how public they were. Some were publicized, but others were not.
The main difference is almost all the DV cases the player was released almost immediately and the Giants are definitely taking their share of criticism on that, but I doubt race was a motive. I think the Giants underestimated the extent and severity. which is inexcusable. But while I completely acknowledge racism exists I don't think it played any part in this incident - whether it was the media coverage or the Giants or NFL actions. Link - ( New Window )
kaepernick I know many of people white, black, Asian and latino who despise him for his actions so i would have to disagree with that comparison. However, Ray Rice and Floyd mayweather were definitely raked through the coals by the media and NFL fans. As a black man who's actually a conservative who despises the race card i have to call a duck a duck. I don't think the Giants went around protecting Josh Brown because he's white that's just stupid to even assert that. However, the vitriol that these two guys received from the fans was definitely different than what Josh from received. Josh was Brown wasn't condemned or exalted his case was pretty much ignored. Had he been black he would have been killed by the media and fans.
I have to disagree. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but if there was a video of Josh Brown sucker punching his wife in a hotel elevator and dragging her unconscious body out of the elevator by her hair the reaction would have been identical to Ray Rice.
With the information that was released about Brown at the time it sounded nowhere near as severe as Rice. Now I'm not going to suggest any level of severity of domestic violence is acceptable, but I will say the accompanying outrage and perception will undoubtedly be tied to severity, and evidence. right or wrong. Not race IMO.
Unless you have a video of a white player doing what Rice did, it's all your opinion. And one that I disagree with.
Ok So you want to use video evidence as the reason why the vitriol was different well fine have it your way. Let's say your right about Ray Rice and the video i don't recall there being a video of Floyd Mayweather beating the mother of his kids but that didn't stop the outrage against him. See the reason why we can't and will never get past racism in this country is because some people use the race card in every situation even when it doesn't apply. On the other hand some white people will fail to understand that there's a difference between the way black people are punished or viewed in this country.
I don't disagree that in some cases there is absolutely a difference in how black people are viewed in this country. no question.
I don't think it applies in this specific case.
Take a look for yourself, the link below is the NFL arrest database. See how many of the people of all races committed crimes and how public they were. Some were publicized, but others were not.
The main difference is almost all the DV cases the player was released almost immediately and the Giants are definitely taking their share of criticism on that, but I doubt race was a motive. I think the Giants underestimated the extent and severity. which is inexcusable. But while I completely acknowledge racism exists I don't think it played any part in this incident - whether it was the media coverage or the Giants or NFL actions. Link - ( New Window )
.................................................
I'm not accusing the NFL or the Giants of being bigoted because i don't beleive that's the case i just feel as though some fans amd media memebers have extra vitriol towards black athletes. In any case i respect your opinion even if i disagree.
kaepernick I know many of people white, black, Asian and latino who despise him for his actions so i would have to disagree with that comparison. However, Ray Rice and Floyd mayweather were definitely raked through the coals by the media and NFL fans. As a black man who's actually a conservative who despises the race card i have to call a duck a duck. I don't think the Giants went around protecting Josh Brown because he's white that's just stupid to even assert that. However, the vitriol that these two guys received from the fans was definitely different than what Josh from received. Josh was Brown wasn't condemned or exalted his case was pretty much ignored. Had he been black he would have been killed by the media and fans.
I have to disagree. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but if there was a video of Josh Brown sucker punching his wife in a hotel elevator and dragging her unconscious body out of the elevator by her hair the reaction would have been identical to Ray Rice.
With the information that was released about Brown at the time it sounded nowhere near as severe as Rice. Now I'm not going to suggest any level of severity of domestic violence is acceptable, but I will say the accompanying outrage and perception will undoubtedly be tied to severity, and evidence. right or wrong. Not race IMO.
Unless you have a video of a white player doing what Rice did, it's all your opinion. And one that I disagree with.
Ok So you want to use video evidence as the reason why the vitriol was different well fine have it your way. Let's say your right about Ray Rice and the video i don't recall there being a video of Floyd Mayweather beating the mother of his kids but that didn't stop the outrage against him. See the reason why we can't and will never get past racism in this country is because some people use the race card in every situation even when it doesn't apply. On the other hand some white people will fail to understand that there's a difference between the way black people are punished or viewed in this country.
I don't disagree that in some cases there is absolutely a difference in how black people are viewed in this country. no question.
I don't think it applies in this specific case.
Take a look for yourself, the link below is the NFL arrest database. See how many of the people of all races committed crimes and how public they were. Some were publicized, but others were not.
The main difference is almost all the DV cases the player was released almost immediately and the Giants are definitely taking their share of criticism on that, but I doubt race was a motive. I think the Giants underestimated the extent and severity. which is inexcusable. But while I completely acknowledge racism exists I don't think it played any part in this incident - whether it was the media coverage or the Giants or NFL actions. Link - ( New Window )
.................................................
I'm not accusing the NFL or the Giants of being bigoted because i don't beleive that's the case i just feel as though some fans amd media memebers have extra vitriol towards black athletes. In any case i respect your opinion even if i disagree.
Sorry, I misunderstood your opinion, I am sure some fans and media have extra vitriol based on race.
I just don't think in this case the vitriol from the start was at Ray Rice level because of the evidence and severity, if there had been the same severity and the same evidence it wold have been the same virtiol IMO. I think DV is pretty much a raceless issue. IMO.
I don't follow Floyd Mayweather's out of the ring life closely, but I do know that the man has a lengthy history of domestic violence charges and convictions against multiple women and I believe even his own children.
You might be able to bring up a good example where racial bias impacted public perception (media and fan), but I don't think comparing the initial reaction and handling of Josh Brown vs Ray Rice or Floyd Mayweather are good examples.
But we all know who you're talking to. Can we please stop using the reply option when posting? All the yellow is making this thread hard to navigate. And it's repetitive. Not trying to be an ass, I like the discussion.
he is universally despised and the Giants and the NFL are taking a huge PR hit right now.
way worse than Kaepernick.
Re-look at what the Panthers did with Greg Hardy. AND CHARGES WERE FILED AGAINST HARDY
Quote:
The Carolina Panthers chose to deactivate defensive end Greg Hardy ahead of their Week 2 game against the Detroit Lions, but the decision appears to have been temporary. Head coach Ron Rivera announced Monday that Hardy will not be suspended by the team, although the organization will continue to evaluate the situation before making a decision whether Hardy will be active against the Pittsburgh Steelers on Sunday Night Football.
Hardy filed an appeal after being found guilty on charges of domestic violence and communicating threats stemming from an altercation in May with then-girlfriend Nicole Holder. The defensive end will receive a jury trial that will decide the case. That trial is scheduled to take place in November.
Until the league suspended him (put him on NFI just like Brown) while he was investigated.
So sick of the f-ing race card being played when people ignore actual examples where it's handled the exact same way.
Josh Brown is barely a footnote and wouldn't have people wearing shirts calling for his death like Kaepernick. Come on now.
he is universally despised and the Giants and the NFL are taking a huge PR hit right now.
way worse than Kaepernick.
Re-look at what the Panthers did with Greg Hardy. AND CHARGES WERE FILED AGAINST HARDY
Quote:
The Carolina Panthers chose to deactivate defensive end Greg Hardy ahead of their Week 2 game against the Detroit Lions, but the decision appears to have been temporary. Head coach Ron Rivera announced Monday that Hardy will not be suspended by the team, although the organization will continue to evaluate the situation before making a decision whether Hardy will be active against the Pittsburgh Steelers on Sunday Night Football.
Hardy filed an appeal after being found guilty on charges of domestic violence and communicating threats stemming from an altercation in May with then-girlfriend Nicole Holder. The defensive end will receive a jury trial that will decide the case. That trial is scheduled to take place in November.
Until the league suspended him (put him on NFI just like Brown) while he was investigated.
So sick of the f-ing race card being played when people ignore actual examples where it's handled the exact same way.
Also, didn't the Cowboys sign Hardy long after the entire world knew about all of his issues? I guess everyone was so forgiving because of Hadys skin color....
The world outside of Dallas hated Hardy. No hate for Josh Brown.
I'm not sure I necessarily agree with the writer Â
of the article, but threads like this one pretty much validate his point. You have a black columnist who shares an opinion about there being what he perceives as a double-standard, and you get (predictably) posters on here that call him things like idiot, asshole and scum. The comments towards this guy who is just writing a column about a topic concerning race seem to be just as nasty, and maybe worse, than comments made towards Josh Brown on other threads I've seen here.
It's so weird the way so many people here are treating Brown like Â
some kind of monster. I read that he admitted to physically abusing his wife, but no one says exactly what he did. I'm thinking that he punched her in the mouth, or kicked her down the stairs. Then I read this:
According to an incident report and a victim’s statement by Molly Brown after the arrest, she said Brown had grabbed and injured her wrist. She added that there had been as many as 20 previous episodes when Brown had similarly grabbed, pushed or threatened her over several years.
He grabbed by the wrist? Other times he had grabbed, pushed or threatened her?
Hell, when I was a kid and sassed my mother, she would wind up and give me a big smack across the face. I guess that would make her a child abuser in Washington.
I'm not saying he deserves a medal, but let the punishment fit the crime.
of the article, but threads like this one pretty much validate his point. You have a black columnist who shares an opinion about there being what he perceives as a double-standard, and you get (predictably) posters on here that call him things like idiot, asshole and scum. The comments towards this guy who is just writing a column about a topic concerning race seem to be just as nasty, and maybe worse, than comments made towards Josh Brown on other threads I've seen here.
He isn't just any writer. Go look up his history and why he's famous.
Spousal abuse is a big issue there. So they passed a Domestic Abuse 4th Degree law, which is a minor misdemeanor, where the husband can be arrested just for poking his wife with a finger.
The idea is to get to the serious abusers early and let them know that they're watching them.
His wife claimed he had physically abused her 20 times. The detective investigated and recommended that he be charged with Domestic Abuse 4th degree. So he didn't find any evidence, including the wife's testimony, that he had really hurt her.
And he was never even charged with the 4th degree.
If you think there is no "hate for Josh Brown", I suggest you leave your dungeon and look around. This man is public enemy number 1 right now. What a weird statement.
You posted a fraction of the quote, the part that justifies your apparent desire to vilify the author (Shaun King) as a racist, and to continue the unending, unwinnable argument between the two camps that NEVER listen to each other. One camp says: White privilege and racial hatred against Black people are always the driving, determining factor in everything that happens. The other camp: White privilege and racial hatred against Black people are never the driving, determining force in anything that happens, because they don't exist, at least not on an institutional level. It's a waste of time, and BBI has been polluted by these voices for far too long. Thinking people without a personal axe to grind are perfectly able to parse these issues and engage in the debate without the need to polarize or throw the label "racist" around every time they hear something they disagree with.
Here's the whole quote:
"If Josh Brown were a black man, or had taken a knee during the anthem — 100% of the NFL players who have done so thus far are black — he’d be despised by now. Instead, the Giants say they are sticking by him. Nobody has burned his jersey. No T-shirts are being sold mocking his assassination.
To be black and a peaceful protester of violence makes one far more hated than being white and beating and intimidating a woman. That, ladies and gentlemen, is the definition of white privilege."
Having said that, and quoted that, I'll do my best to piss off both camps even more...
King is completely wrong about this. First of all, as many in this thread have already pointed out, previous domestic violence situations which have been woefully mishandled by the NFL have, in fact, involved non-white players. While I wouldn't dismiss out of hand the possibility that, when the whole story comes out, the Josh Brown situation might turn out to have been handled differently because of his race, there is no evidence to that effect that I've seen yet, and certainly none brought up in this piece by King.
But secondly, and more important: If Kaepernick or any of the players who take part in his protest were White, they'd definitely be hated, threatened and vilified just as much, and I'd venture to say even more than what we've seen so far. Does King not remember, for instance, the european college basketball player (Did he play for Seton Hall?) who refused, for reasons of conscience, to wear the American flag on his uniform when it was introduced as a rule in the aftermath of the first Gulf Slaughter in Iraq? He and his family feared for their lives and had to leave the country. (Incidentally, NC coach Dean Smith similarly refused to have his players wear the flag at first, for similar reasons, but then relented because of the pressure put on him.)
My point, which King pays no attention to: There is an irrational, ignorant, false and poisonous kind of patriotism in some sectors of this country that comes out viciously whenever a person with any notoriety or influence chooses to illuminate and protest injustices, or even to think critically out loud about how racism, militarism and/or U.S. exceptionalism harmfully influence the institutions that we hold dear. King seems to think that the backlash against Kaep's protest is exclusively based on racism. While I can somewhat understand why he takes that position (in light of the seemingly unending stream of incidents where people of color are being executed by police with impunity in the streets of our cities), he's mistaken. It's false patriotism that is causing the backlash against Kaepernick, and it is a plague on this nation.
While I personally think that King has in the past offered some useful points of view on these issues, I find this piece to be shabbily done and not very well thought out.
Thanks in advance for your universal agreement with my opinions.
Did you just call it the first "Gulf Slaughter"? Are you fucking shitting me? You bring your political biased bullshit to the thread and think people are going to take you seriously? Get the hell out of here with that nonsense
Would this make you wonder if Brown is such a monster? Â
“He’s like a brother,” Rodgers-Cromartie said. “He’s helped me grow a lot in terms of being a man off the field. I learned a lot from him. I definitely know the kind of man that he is.
“I know that’s not him. I know the things I’ve learned from him. I just gotta go with what I know off what I know of him personally. I don’t know that relationship. I just know him. I know I’m behind him. I’m a guy that definitely looks up to him. I’m here for him.”
Did you just call it the first "Gulf Slaughter"? Are you fucking shitting me? You bring your political biased bullshit to the thread and think people are going to take you seriously? Get the hell out of here with that nonsense
You can call it what you want. I don't like Koolaid.
If you're going to compare Brown to Kap and talk about how disliked Kap is compared to all the imaginary breaks that Brown is getting, don't you have to talk about the fact that his jersey has been one of the top sellers since his protest started?
The thing is, a lot of players who should have come out much more strongly against Brown are. Asicslly supporting him
Steve Weatherford
Victor Cruz
Justin Pugh
There are a few others. The thing is with those players above, is that the came out STRAIGHT AWAY against Kaepernick for taking a knee. A simple protest. They were open and perfectly clear that they believed Kaepernick was wrong. In addition, weatherford REFUSED to compare Brown to Hardy, saying "Brown is a good person".
what backlash has Kaepernick faced? He's the starting QB.
Almost to a man his teammates support him and league wide there is more support for him than backlash.
Here is what Greg Hardy's former teammate Charles Johnson had to say about him.
Quote:
".....He's a good guy," Panthers defensive end Charles Johnson told ESPN.com this week. "He just makes bad decisions. I just hope he gets out there and finds a place so he can really prove his talent and show what he's really all about instead of giving interviews to people about the situation. He should just move on and throw that all the way back, move forward and take it day by day. Don't do interviews......"
Quote:
"That's my friend," Johnson said. "I ain't got no other choice but to believe him. Whatever he's telling me, I'm going to believe that because I've got no other choice
Johnson was even critical of former teammates like Steve Smith who condemned Hardy saying:
Quote:
Johnson's response to Smith's tweet: "I would tell Smitty don't add on with the criticism of everybody else. Try to help him out. If you ain't going to help him out or bring him up, don't say nothing at all. Don't add to the criticism of everybody else."
and this was like link 1 in Google search.
I see very little difference with how Hardy and Brown were handled other than there was pictures and other evidence against Hardy and Hardy was charged, found guilty (initially), and also charged with threatening a witness who ultimately refused to cooperate with prosecutors.
And the point of the OP is that the differences are because of race and if you believe that then IMO it's racism in your heart to be able to see into the intent of others and immediately go there as the reason for any difference in perception and treatment, not actual facts that were different between the two cases.
Is a dumbass. The reason there is rightful vitriol against Kaep is because it's deserved. Perpetuating a false narrative that King also believes in.
Brown would be excoriated even more by people if he were to take a knee.
Brown has taken a massive beating in the court of opinion even though he, unlike say, Greg Hardy, came clean about his transgressions, has been earnestly getting help, and has shown genuine remorse. Personally, I believe in second chances, if there is remorse and a genuine attempt to turn away from the previous behavior.
I think what the NFL has done to Ray Rice is deplorable. I think Rice should be playing this week for someone. A real example of possible racial bias would be why Rice has not been afforded a second chance like Brown seemingly was right away.
"White privilege" which is a false premise made up by Black academia to vilify and shame white America to be more sympathetic to the Plight of African Americans.
Whenever anyone says we need to have a conversation about Race relations , what they really mean is a Lecture to White America to shut and listen, see Shaun King.
Those last few replies are absolutely the reason why I thought this was the wrong Giants forum when the last Kaepernick discussion was brought up
How can you say Kaepernick did not face any backlash. Are you ignoring the death threats, the people saying he should be kicked out of the country, people outside of the Bills game (where he had his first start) wearing tees saying he should be shot, and a whole bunch more?
And to bring up white privilege on a Giants forum. Nah, This is not the time and place for it. When it appears you're too dense to even converse on the subject. And it's quite disappointing to even discuss this on a Giants forum
This thread seems to have only been created for some to moan and whine and purely for non football reasons.
the OP and King article were saying that Brown was "despised" less for his domestic violence actions because of his race.
And in the article the author states that
Quote:
...and white fans around the league — have nothing for him like the scorn they’ve reserved for Colin Kaepernick
My point was and still is race has nothing to do with the way fans feel about Brown and it's unrelated to and irrelevant to Kaepernick.
Once the story was released many fans were upset Brown remained a Giant, now that the rest of the story is out almost all fans are sickened by his actions and want and expect his Giants (and NFL) career to be over.
Equating him to Kaepernick is not a good comparison for a lot of reasons. No one defends Josh Brown that I have seen or condones domestic violence. I believe that crosses race 100% and no matter who the criminal is the reaction would be nearly identical.
Kaepernick absolutely had a different reaction based on race because he was protesting a racial issue that some people don't think exists. My comment on Kapernick not receiving backlash was limited to his teammates and the league as I indicated. His teammates, their coach, and FO 100% support Kaepernick as does the league, and among the players in the league while specific players have commented they don't agree with him he's mostly highly regarded IMO.
Shaun King can weave hypotheticals and make false equivalencies, and in the end he's the same mildly-to-uninfluentul, under talented, made-up provocateur at a shit newspaper.
the OP and King article were saying that Brown was "despised" less for his domestic violence actions because of his race.
And in the article the author states that
Quote:
...and white fans around the league — have nothing for him like the scorn they’ve reserved for Colin Kaepernick
My point was and still is race has nothing to do with the way fans feel about Brown and it's unrelated to and irrelevant to Kaepernick.
Once the story was released many fans were upset Brown remained a Giant, now that the rest of the story is out almost all fans are sickened by his actions and want and expect his Giants (and NFL) career to be over.
Equating him to Kaepernick is not a good comparison for a lot of reasons. No one defends Josh Brown that I have seen or condones domestic violence. I believe that crosses race 100% and no matter who the criminal is the reaction would be nearly identical.
Kaepernick absolutely had a different reaction based on race because he was protesting a racial issue that some people don't think exists. My comment on Kapernick not receiving backlash was limited to his teammates and the league as I indicated. His teammates, their coach, and FO 100% support Kaepernick as does the league, and among the players in the league while specific players have commented they don't agree with him he's mostly highly regarded IMO.
"If Josh Brown were a black man, or had taken a knee during the anthem — 100% of the NFL players who have done so thus far are black — he’d be despised by now. Instead, the Giants say they are sticking by him. Nobody has burned his jersey. No T-shirts are being sold mocking his assassination."
Having done a quick search, I could only find a few photos or videos of players' jerseys being burned. Coincidentally, they are the ones who are more well-known and who I would expect to have jerseys owned by more than their relatives. (ie Arian Foster & Brandon Marshall but not Eric Reid or Jeremy Lane)
How many Josh Brown jerseys do you think are even out there?
http://www.tbo.com/storyimage/TB/20160331/ARTICLE/160339888/EP/1/1/EP-160339888.jpg
That's a better question.
He claims he's bi-racial and who knows maybe he is, but the problem he creates is there is legitimate racism out there - a lot of it, and by claiming racism when it's not there, he makes it harder on the people who need to understand and act on the legitimate claims to believe them.
It's the activists like King that create a divide, not unity or awareness. they creative defensiveness which divides. IMO.
He must have bought Sharpton's book.
Meanwhile, if his problem is that the Brown thing has not gotten as much attention, then he should look no farther than the media itself. It is the media that decides what we get exposed to. Every time CK takes a knee during the national anthem, the cameras are on him AND he is intentionally doing this for all to see. If Brown was beating the shit out of his wife on the sideline during the anthem, or a video tape of him doing it like Ray Rice, then I am sure the discussion would be much different.
I have to disagree. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but if there was a video of Josh Brown sucker punching his wife in a hotel elevator and dragging her unconscious body out of the elevator by her hair the reaction would have been identical to Ray Rice.
With the information that was released about Brown at the time it sounded nowhere near as severe as Rice. Now I'm not going to suggest any level of severity of domestic violence is acceptable, but I will say the accompanying outrage and perception will undoubtedly be tied to severity, and evidence. right or wrong. Not race IMO.
Unless you have a video of a white player doing what Rice did, it's all your opinion. And one that I disagree with.
It is literally akin to Bruce Jenner becoming a feminist columnist.
What a world we live in.
Brown's been killed by the media and fans, though. There is something that would have made it worse, but it's not race. If Brown were in any way famous or recognizable, there'd be a much bigger backlash.
If Hardy had been a practice squad DE and not re-signed by the Cowboys, you can bet your wallet that he'd have had the same treatment as Brown, who will slip into oblivion once he's released.
Quote:
kaepernick I know many of people white, black, Asian and latino who despise him for his actions so i would have to disagree with that comparison. However, Ray Rice and Floyd mayweather were definitely raked through the coals by the media and NFL fans. As a black man who's actually a conservative who despises the race card i have to call a duck a duck. I don't think the Giants went around protecting Josh Brown because he's white that's just stupid to even assert that. However, the vitriol that these two guys received from the fans was definitely different than what Josh from received. Josh was Brown wasn't condemned or exalted his case was pretty much ignored. Had he been black he would have been killed by the media and fans.
I have to disagree. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but if there was a video of Josh Brown sucker punching his wife in a hotel elevator and dragging her unconscious body out of the elevator by her hair the reaction would have been identical to Ray Rice.
With the information that was released about Brown at the time it sounded nowhere near as severe as Rice. Now I'm not going to suggest any level of severity of domestic violence is acceptable, but I will say the accompanying outrage and perception will undoubtedly be tied to severity, and evidence. right or wrong. Not race IMO.
Unless you have a video of a white player doing what Rice did, it's all your opinion. And one that I disagree with.
Ok So you want to use video evidence as the reason why the vitriol was different well fine have it your way. Let's say your right about Ray Rice and the video i don't recall there being a video of Floyd Mayweather beating the mother of his kids but that didn't stop the outrage against him. See the reason why we can't and will never get past racism in this country is because some people use the race card in every situation even when it doesn't apply. On the other hand some white people will fail to understand that there's a difference between the way black people are punished or viewed in this country.
Quote:
In comment 13184264 nicks14 said:
Quote:
kaepernick I know many of people white, black, Asian and latino who despise him for his actions so i would have to disagree with that comparison. However, Ray Rice and Floyd mayweather were definitely raked through the coals by the media and NFL fans. As a black man who's actually a conservative who despises the race card i have to call a duck a duck. I don't think the Giants went around protecting Josh Brown because he's white that's just stupid to even assert that. However, the vitriol that these two guys received from the fans was definitely different than what Josh from received. Josh was Brown wasn't condemned or exalted his case was pretty much ignored. Had he been black he would have been killed by the media and fans.
I have to disagree. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but if there was a video of Josh Brown sucker punching his wife in a hotel elevator and dragging her unconscious body out of the elevator by her hair the reaction would have been identical to Ray Rice.
With the information that was released about Brown at the time it sounded nowhere near as severe as Rice. Now I'm not going to suggest any level of severity of domestic violence is acceptable, but I will say the accompanying outrage and perception will undoubtedly be tied to severity, and evidence. right or wrong. Not race IMO.
Unless you have a video of a white player doing what Rice did, it's all your opinion. And one that I disagree with.
..................................................
Ok So you want to use video evidence as the reason why the vitriol was different well fine have it your way. Let's say your right about Ray Rice and the video i don't recall there being a video of Floyd Mayweather beating the mother of his kids but that didn't stop the outrage against him. See the reason why we can't and will never get past racism in this country is because some people use the race card in every situation even when it doesn't apply. On the other hand some white people will fail to understand that there's a difference between the way black people are punished or viewed in this country.
I don't disagree that in some cases there is absolutely a difference in how black people are viewed in this country. no question.
I don't think it applies in this specific case.
Take a look for yourself, the link below is the NFL arrest database. See how many of the people of all races committed crimes and how public they were. Some were publicized, but others were not.
The main difference is almost all the DV cases the player was released almost immediately and the Giants are definitely taking their share of criticism on that, but I doubt race was a motive. I think the Giants underestimated the extent and severity. which is inexcusable. But while I completely acknowledge racism exists I don't think it played any part in this incident - whether it was the media coverage or the Giants or NFL actions.
Link - ( New Window )
Quote:
In comment 13184274 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 13184264 nicks14 said:
Quote:
kaepernick I know many of people white, black, Asian and latino who despise him for his actions so i would have to disagree with that comparison. However, Ray Rice and Floyd mayweather were definitely raked through the coals by the media and NFL fans. As a black man who's actually a conservative who despises the race card i have to call a duck a duck. I don't think the Giants went around protecting Josh Brown because he's white that's just stupid to even assert that. However, the vitriol that these two guys received from the fans was definitely different than what Josh from received. Josh was Brown wasn't condemned or exalted his case was pretty much ignored. Had he been black he would have been killed by the media and fans.
I have to disagree. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but if there was a video of Josh Brown sucker punching his wife in a hotel elevator and dragging her unconscious body out of the elevator by her hair the reaction would have been identical to Ray Rice.
With the information that was released about Brown at the time it sounded nowhere near as severe as Rice. Now I'm not going to suggest any level of severity of domestic violence is acceptable, but I will say the accompanying outrage and perception will undoubtedly be tied to severity, and evidence. right or wrong. Not race IMO.
Unless you have a video of a white player doing what Rice did, it's all your opinion. And one that I disagree with.
..................................................
Ok So you want to use video evidence as the reason why the vitriol was different well fine have it your way. Let's say your right about Ray Rice and the video i don't recall there being a video of Floyd Mayweather beating the mother of his kids but that didn't stop the outrage against him. See the reason why we can't and will never get past racism in this country is because some people use the race card in every situation even when it doesn't apply. On the other hand some white people will fail to understand that there's a difference between the way black people are punished or viewed in this country.
I don't disagree that in some cases there is absolutely a difference in how black people are viewed in this country. no question.
I don't think it applies in this specific case.
Take a look for yourself, the link below is the NFL arrest database. See how many of the people of all races committed crimes and how public they were. Some were publicized, but others were not.
The main difference is almost all the DV cases the player was released almost immediately and the Giants are definitely taking their share of criticism on that, but I doubt race was a motive. I think the Giants underestimated the extent and severity. which is inexcusable. But while I completely acknowledge racism exists I don't think it played any part in this incident - whether it was the media coverage or the Giants or NFL actions. Link - ( New Window )
I'm not accusing the NFL or the Giants of being bigoted because i don't beleive that's the case i just feel as though some fans amd media memebers have extra vitriol towards black athletes. In any case i respect your opinion even if i disagree.
Quote:
In comment 13184284 nicks14 said:
Quote:
In comment 13184274 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 13184264 nicks14 said:
Quote:
kaepernick I know many of people white, black, Asian and latino who despise him for his actions so i would have to disagree with that comparison. However, Ray Rice and Floyd mayweather were definitely raked through the coals by the media and NFL fans. As a black man who's actually a conservative who despises the race card i have to call a duck a duck. I don't think the Giants went around protecting Josh Brown because he's white that's just stupid to even assert that. However, the vitriol that these two guys received from the fans was definitely different than what Josh from received. Josh was Brown wasn't condemned or exalted his case was pretty much ignored. Had he been black he would have been killed by the media and fans.
I have to disagree. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but if there was a video of Josh Brown sucker punching his wife in a hotel elevator and dragging her unconscious body out of the elevator by her hair the reaction would have been identical to Ray Rice.
With the information that was released about Brown at the time it sounded nowhere near as severe as Rice. Now I'm not going to suggest any level of severity of domestic violence is acceptable, but I will say the accompanying outrage and perception will undoubtedly be tied to severity, and evidence. right or wrong. Not race IMO.
Unless you have a video of a white player doing what Rice did, it's all your opinion. And one that I disagree with.
..................................................
Ok So you want to use video evidence as the reason why the vitriol was different well fine have it your way. Let's say your right about Ray Rice and the video i don't recall there being a video of Floyd Mayweather beating the mother of his kids but that didn't stop the outrage against him. See the reason why we can't and will never get past racism in this country is because some people use the race card in every situation even when it doesn't apply. On the other hand some white people will fail to understand that there's a difference between the way black people are punished or viewed in this country.
I don't disagree that in some cases there is absolutely a difference in how black people are viewed in this country. no question.
I don't think it applies in this specific case.
Take a look for yourself, the link below is the NFL arrest database. See how many of the people of all races committed crimes and how public they were. Some were publicized, but others were not.
The main difference is almost all the DV cases the player was released almost immediately and the Giants are definitely taking their share of criticism on that, but I doubt race was a motive. I think the Giants underestimated the extent and severity. which is inexcusable. But while I completely acknowledge racism exists I don't think it played any part in this incident - whether it was the media coverage or the Giants or NFL actions. Link - ( New Window )
.................................................
I'm not accusing the NFL or the Giants of being bigoted because i don't beleive that's the case i just feel as though some fans amd media memebers have extra vitriol towards black athletes. In any case i respect your opinion even if i disagree.
Sorry, I misunderstood your opinion, I am sure some fans and media have extra vitriol based on race.
I just don't think in this case the vitriol from the start was at Ray Rice level because of the evidence and severity, if there had been the same severity and the same evidence it wold have been the same virtiol IMO. I think DV is pretty much a raceless issue. IMO.
I don't follow Floyd Mayweather's out of the ring life closely, but I do know that the man has a lengthy history of domestic violence charges and convictions against multiple women and I believe even his own children.
You might be able to bring up a good example where racial bias impacted public perception (media and fan), but I don't think comparing the initial reaction and handling of Josh Brown vs Ray Rice or Floyd Mayweather are good examples.
way worse than Kaepernick.
Re-look at what the Panthers did with Greg Hardy. AND CHARGES WERE FILED AGAINST HARDY
Quote:
The Carolina Panthers chose to deactivate defensive end Greg Hardy ahead of their Week 2 game against the Detroit Lions, but the decision appears to have been temporary. Head coach Ron Rivera announced Monday that Hardy will not be suspended by the team, although the organization will continue to evaluate the situation before making a decision whether Hardy will be active against the Pittsburgh Steelers on Sunday Night Football.
Hardy filed an appeal after being found guilty on charges of domestic violence and communicating threats stemming from an altercation in May with then-girlfriend Nicole Holder. The defensive end will receive a jury trial that will decide the case. That trial is scheduled to take place in November.
Until the league suspended him (put him on NFI just like Brown) while he was investigated.
So sick of the f-ing race card being played when people ignore actual examples where it's handled the exact same way.
Josh Brown is barely a footnote and wouldn't have people wearing shirts calling for his death like Kaepernick. Come on now.
Quote:
he is universally despised and the Giants and the NFL are taking a huge PR hit right now.
way worse than Kaepernick.
Re-look at what the Panthers did with Greg Hardy. AND CHARGES WERE FILED AGAINST HARDY
Quote:
The Carolina Panthers chose to deactivate defensive end Greg Hardy ahead of their Week 2 game against the Detroit Lions, but the decision appears to have been temporary. Head coach Ron Rivera announced Monday that Hardy will not be suspended by the team, although the organization will continue to evaluate the situation before making a decision whether Hardy will be active against the Pittsburgh Steelers on Sunday Night Football.
Hardy filed an appeal after being found guilty on charges of domestic violence and communicating threats stemming from an altercation in May with then-girlfriend Nicole Holder. The defensive end will receive a jury trial that will decide the case. That trial is scheduled to take place in November.
Until the league suspended him (put him on NFI just like Brown) while he was investigated.
So sick of the f-ing race card being played when people ignore actual examples where it's handled the exact same way.
Also, didn't the Cowboys sign Hardy long after the entire world knew about all of his issues? I guess everyone was so forgiving because of Hadys skin color....
The world outside of Dallas hated Hardy. No hate for Josh Brown.
According to an incident report and a victim’s statement by Molly Brown after the arrest, she said Brown had grabbed and injured her wrist. She added that there had been as many as 20 previous episodes when Brown had similarly grabbed, pushed or threatened her over several years.
He grabbed by the wrist? Other times he had grabbed, pushed or threatened her?
Hell, when I was a kid and sassed my mother, she would wind up and give me a big smack across the face. I guess that would make her a child abuser in Washington.
I'm not saying he deserves a medal, but let the punishment fit the crime.
Holy shit.
He isn't just any writer. Go look up his history and why he's famous.
The idea is to get to the serious abusers early and let them know that they're watching them.
His wife claimed he had physically abused her 20 times. The detective investigated and recommended that he be charged with Domestic Abuse 4th degree. So he didn't find any evidence, including the wife's testimony, that he had really hurt her.
And he was never even charged with the 4th degree.
People can be so self-righteous.
"JUDGE NOT, LEST YE BE JUDGED"
Mathew 7:1
Here's the whole quote:
"If Josh Brown were a black man, or had taken a knee during the anthem — 100% of the NFL players who have done so thus far are black — he’d be despised by now. Instead, the Giants say they are sticking by him. Nobody has burned his jersey. No T-shirts are being sold mocking his assassination.
To be black and a peaceful protester of violence makes one far more hated than being white and beating and intimidating a woman. That, ladies and gentlemen, is the definition of white privilege."
Having said that, and quoted that, I'll do my best to piss off both camps even more...
King is completely wrong about this. First of all, as many in this thread have already pointed out, previous domestic violence situations which have been woefully mishandled by the NFL have, in fact, involved non-white players. While I wouldn't dismiss out of hand the possibility that, when the whole story comes out, the Josh Brown situation might turn out to have been handled differently because of his race, there is no evidence to that effect that I've seen yet, and certainly none brought up in this piece by King.
But secondly, and more important: If Kaepernick or any of the players who take part in his protest were White, they'd definitely be hated, threatened and vilified just as much, and I'd venture to say even more than what we've seen so far. Does King not remember, for instance, the european college basketball player (Did he play for Seton Hall?) who refused, for reasons of conscience, to wear the American flag on his uniform when it was introduced as a rule in the aftermath of the first Gulf Slaughter in Iraq? He and his family feared for their lives and had to leave the country. (Incidentally, NC coach Dean Smith similarly refused to have his players wear the flag at first, for similar reasons, but then relented because of the pressure put on him.)
My point, which King pays no attention to: There is an irrational, ignorant, false and poisonous kind of patriotism in some sectors of this country that comes out viciously whenever a person with any notoriety or influence chooses to illuminate and protest injustices, or even to think critically out loud about how racism, militarism and/or U.S. exceptionalism harmfully influence the institutions that we hold dear. King seems to think that the backlash against Kaep's protest is exclusively based on racism. While I can somewhat understand why he takes that position (in light of the seemingly unending stream of incidents where people of color are being executed by police with impunity in the streets of our cities), he's mistaken. It's false patriotism that is causing the backlash against Kaepernick, and it is a plague on this nation.
While I personally think that King has in the past offered some useful points of view on these issues, I find this piece to be shabbily done and not very well thought out.
Thanks in advance for your universal agreement with my opinions.
“I know that’s not him. I know the things I’ve learned from him. I just gotta go with what I know off what I know of him personally. I don’t know that relationship. I just know him. I know I’m behind him. I’m a guy that definitely looks up to him. I’m here for him.”
You can call it what you want. I don't like Koolaid.
You're also a clueless nitwit. Aside from the fact that making this political will get it torched you stupid fuck.
Steve Weatherford
Victor Cruz
Justin Pugh
There are a few others. The thing is with those players above, is that the came out STRAIGHT AWAY against Kaepernick for taking a knee. A simple protest. They were open and perfectly clear that they believed Kaepernick was wrong. In addition, weatherford REFUSED to compare Brown to Hardy, saying "Brown is a good person".
Almost to a man his teammates support him and league wide there is more support for him than backlash.
Here is what Greg Hardy's former teammate Charles Johnson had to say about him.
Johnson was even critical of former teammates like Steve Smith who condemned Hardy saying:
and this was like link 1 in Google search.
I see very little difference with how Hardy and Brown were handled other than there was pictures and other evidence against Hardy and Hardy was charged, found guilty (initially), and also charged with threatening a witness who ultimately refused to cooperate with prosecutors.
And the point of the OP is that the differences are because of race and if you believe that then IMO it's racism in your heart to be able to see into the intent of others and immediately go there as the reason for any difference in perception and treatment, not actual facts that were different between the two cases.
Brown would be excoriated even more by people if he were to take a knee.
Brown has taken a massive beating in the court of opinion even though he, unlike say, Greg Hardy, came clean about his transgressions, has been earnestly getting help, and has shown genuine remorse. Personally, I believe in second chances, if there is remorse and a genuine attempt to turn away from the previous behavior.
I think what the NFL has done to Ray Rice is deplorable. I think Rice should be playing this week for someone. A real example of possible racial bias would be why Rice has not been afforded a second chance like Brown seemingly was right away.
Whenever anyone says we need to have a conversation about Race relations , what they really mean is a Lecture to White America to shut and listen, see Shaun King.
How can you say Kaepernick did not face any backlash. Are you ignoring the death threats, the people saying he should be kicked out of the country, people outside of the Bills game (where he had his first start) wearing tees saying he should be shot, and a whole bunch more?
And to bring up white privilege on a Giants forum. Nah, This is not the time and place for it. When it appears you're too dense to even converse on the subject. And it's quite disappointing to even discuss this on a Giants forum
This thread seems to have only been created for some to moan and whine and purely for non football reasons.
Y'all can fester in peace in here
And in the article the author states that
My point was and still is race has nothing to do with the way fans feel about Brown and it's unrelated to and irrelevant to Kaepernick.
Once the story was released many fans were upset Brown remained a Giant, now that the rest of the story is out almost all fans are sickened by his actions and want and expect his Giants (and NFL) career to be over.
Equating him to Kaepernick is not a good comparison for a lot of reasons. No one defends Josh Brown that I have seen or condones domestic violence. I believe that crosses race 100% and no matter who the criminal is the reaction would be nearly identical.
Kaepernick absolutely had a different reaction based on race because he was protesting a racial issue that some people don't think exists. My comment on Kapernick not receiving backlash was limited to his teammates and the league as I indicated. His teammates, their coach, and FO 100% support Kaepernick as does the league, and among the players in the league while specific players have commented they don't agree with him he's mostly highly regarded IMO.
Shaun King can weave hypotheticals and make false equivalencies, and in the end he's the same mildly-to-uninfluentul, under talented, made-up provocateur at a shit newspaper.
And in the article the author states that
Quote:
...and white fans around the league — have nothing for him like the scorn they’ve reserved for Colin Kaepernick
My point was and still is race has nothing to do with the way fans feel about Brown and it's unrelated to and irrelevant to Kaepernick.
Once the story was released many fans were upset Brown remained a Giant, now that the rest of the story is out almost all fans are sickened by his actions and want and expect his Giants (and NFL) career to be over.
Equating him to Kaepernick is not a good comparison for a lot of reasons. No one defends Josh Brown that I have seen or condones domestic violence. I believe that crosses race 100% and no matter who the criminal is the reaction would be nearly identical.
Kaepernick absolutely had a different reaction based on race because he was protesting a racial issue that some people don't think exists. My comment on Kapernick not receiving backlash was limited to his teammates and the league as I indicated. His teammates, their coach, and FO 100% support Kaepernick as does the league, and among the players in the league while specific players have commented they don't agree with him he's mostly highly regarded IMO.
Yup... this is exactly right.
Having done a quick search, I could only find a few photos or videos of players' jerseys being burned. Coincidentally, they are the ones who are more well-known and who I would expect to have jerseys owned by more than their relatives. (ie Arian Foster & Brandon Marshall but not Eric Reid or Jeremy Lane)
How many Josh Brown jerseys do you think are even out there?