with pjcas in the other thread, this is going to be another example of the NFL only making the "tough decisions" when they have some smack on their face.
Hopefully we play this right moving forward because we look pretty bad right now.
Mara's statement looks like they know they f'ed this up
on releasing Brown. I think DV is deplorable but I also believe in human beings being human and in some cases deserve second chances.
My feelings are irrelevant.
People critical of the NFL and/or the Giants are not truly factoring in what was known and when. The Giants simply did not have the benefit of the journal/sherriff's report until I believe the day before they left for London.
Once all the information was available they made a decision they felt was appropriate.
You could argue that even given the shred of details available in January or February when they re-signed Brown the Giants made a mistake, and that's a perfectly fine opinion.
RE: Mara's statement looks like they know they f'ed this up
with pjcas in the other thread, this is going to be another example of the NFL only making the "tough decisions" when they have some smack on their face.
Hopefully we play this right moving forward because we look pretty bad right now.
The court of public opinion is never to be condoned nor accepted.
We'll likely never know the real or full story to his abuses. He sounds like a verbal abuser and an overbearing SOB and possibly(likely) a liar. We'll never know the real reason - was it him, her or both.
I'm glad it is over, but I never felt that the Giants intended to mislead anyone - more likely tried to help the family out.
Mike Garafolo @MikeGarafolo 3m3 minutes ago
Josh Brown's statement via @Giants is a bit different than the one he released earlier. Gone is where he said he "never struck" his wife.
RE: Look I really don't feel strongly one way or the other
on releasing Brown. I think DV is deplorable but I also believe in human beings being human and in some cases deserve second chances.
My feelings are irrelevant.
People critical of the NFL and/or the Giants are not truly factoring in what was known and when. The Giants simply did not have the benefit of the journal/sherriff's report until I believe the day before they left for London.
Once all the information was available they made a decision they felt was appropriate.
You could argue that even given the shred of details available in January or February when they re-signed Brown the Giants made a mistake, and that's a perfectly fine opinion.
Perfectly stated. Unfortunately nobody will ever really know the extent of what was known and when it was known by the Giants. While it's possible that they had full disclosure in January and decided to re-sign the guy it is just as possible that they didn't. All of the armchair sleuths in the world will never know that answer.
Make no mistake, because of the timing of this (in the middle of a post Ray Rice and Greg Hardy NFL) this will go down as a black eye on the franchise. Maybe it should, if for no other reason that in such a visible business you have to be extra sensitive to issues such as these, whether it's right or not.
Think you said it well. Degree matters and we don't know the degree and we don't know what specifically brown and the Giants discussed at the time of the signing.
Inclined to believe Mara wanted to not get into he said she said, and that brown may have shared some but also probably lied to him about details.
It's good they cut him. Don't know why they waited until today other than to tone down the circus prior to a game in London.
The law left it as it was, the league gave him a game. Giants agreed with both. When more info came out, he was gone. Giants handled it (in my opinion) exactly as they should have.
1. signing him knowing he had a DV charge/restraining order
2. not cutting him when this came to light in the summer.
in brown's statement today before he was released, he remained somewhat defiant, toning down his actions by saying he did not strike his ex-wife as if to say "I'm not as bad as ray rice as I only grabbed wrists and manhandled her; I didn't knock her out".
I will agree about second chances. I do agree that Brown should not be cast a total scumbag even if his acts were poor. Many fine people have issues and shortcomings. And I don't know the extent and context to which he and his wife had their interactions and other mental abuse in that situation. Btw none of which excuses dv but dv has degrees of offensiveness.
He does lose his chance in belonging to this exclusive club and I have no issue if he never plays again due to his age.
Not to ever excuse dv, but there are degrees which I feel are lost in today's pc world. Ray rice conducted clear felonious assault on his wife. Brown seems to have been charged with misdemeanors.
It seems by most accounts, football player Josh Brown was
I'm wondering if he smooth talked the Giants into keeping him around. They look stupid for doing so, and Josh's explanation should not have been the only factor.. but still.. compound that with the seeming lack of evidence and maybe we are closer to an answer on the Giants' thinking.
why is it on the Giants to cut him. Is he never allowed to work again because of this? When is the punishment over, can he ever come back? Where is the 2nd chance, where is the helping hand. The pitchforks win.
Not to ever excuse dv, but there are degrees which I feel are lost in today's pc world. Ray rice conducted clear felonious assault on his wife. Brown seems to have been charged with misdemeanors.
agreed. though I will say about ray rice, that from all accounts, that was only one instance of domestic violence (albeit a very scary, public and disturbing one), he was extremely contrite, did a lot of counseling and community service and his fiance stayed with him, getting married.
by contrast, there were a number of incidents with brown, they eventually divorced and she obtained a restraining order which he allegedly violated. and even today he is still trying to downplay his actions by saying he didn't strike her.
one really bad assault for which the abuser was contrite and has been regaining trust vs multiple assaults, with no real contrition and no rebuilding of the relationship with the victim.
in saying that Lewis was accused, but charges were dropped? Or something along those lines?
If you mean Ray Lewis, no he just was either the main culprit or at least complicit in the murder of a man and helped get rid of the bloody clothes. He was never suspended.
Now he works for ESPN and wears gators on Monday Nights. A true American success story.
Lewis was acquitted on one of the rape charges, jury deadlocked on the other one. After that he took a plea bargain deal, pleading guilty to a different charge and receiving 3 years probation.
RE: Look I really don't feel strongly one way or the other
on releasing Brown. I think DV is deplorable but I also believe in human beings being human and in some cases deserve second chances.
My feelings are irrelevant.
People critical of the NFL and/or the Giants are not truly factoring in what was known and when. The Giants simply did not have the benefit of the journal/sherriff's report until I believe the day before they left for London.
Very well stated but it's much easier to join the rush to judgement group that this PC country has become. Let's all band together whether right or wrong. Choose the flavor of the day and solider on!
Once all the information was available they made a decision they felt was appropriate.
You could argue that even given the shred of details available in January or February when they re-signed Brown the Giants made a mistake, and that's a perfectly fine opinion.
Absolutely should be out of league for at least some time.
What I don't know is anything close enough to judge him. Or this situation overall. He clearly did wrong. Does that invalidate the rest of his life?
Can I call him a wife beater? No. He needs help as I'm sure his wife does. I will guarantee this-those casting stones should probably just stop with watching the nfl. A lot of foul criminal element on teams.
Apart from bad press and looking stupid the fact is Josh Brown has cost the Giants $675,000 for Bullock, $637,532 for Gould (assuming he is vested also... so he gets that money) and 1 million plus 500K guaranteed for Brown, barring game money and other items. Bloody expensive mistake all round.
in saying that Lewis was accused, but charges were dropped? Or something along those lines?
If you mean Ray Lewis, no he just was either the main culprit or at least complicit in the murder of a man and helped get rid of the bloody clothes. He was never suspended.
Now he works for ESPN and wears gators on Monday Nights. A true American success story.
1. signing him knowing he had a DV charge/restraining order
2. not cutting him when this came to light in the summer.
in brown's statement today before he was released, he remained somewhat defiant, toning down his actions by saying he did not strike his ex-wife as if to say "I'm not as bad as ray rice as I only grabbed wrists and manhandled her; I didn't knock her out".
Les you do know you can get a restraining order when nothing happened and you do know that your wife can make a complaint about you this afternoon and you can be arrested or detained on her word only.
I'm not making excuses for Brown, just saying that wacky wives can make statements that are total lies. I have a friend whose wife did that and got a divorce, big alimony and total custody of the kids on total lies.
An employer has to be careful that he doesn't violate the accused's rights, also. I'm glad that Brown is gone because now it is obvious that there is meat on the bone. But before last Tuesday, there was only speculation and his confession.
1. signing him knowing he had a DV charge/restraining order
2. not cutting him when this came to light in the summer.
in brown's statement today before he was released, he remained somewhat defiant, toning down his actions by saying he did not strike his ex-wife as if to say "I'm not as bad as ray rice as I only grabbed wrists and manhandled her; I didn't knock her out".
Les you do know you can get a restraining order when nothing happened and you do know that your wife can make a complaint about you this afternoon and you can be arrested or detained on her word only.
I'm not making excuses for Brown, just saying that wacky wives can make statements that are total lies. I have a friend whose wife did that and got a divorce, big alimony and total custody of the kids on total lies.
An employer has to be careful that he doesn't violate the accused's rights, also. I'm glad that Brown is gone because now it is obvious that there is meat on the bone. But before last Tuesday, there was only speculation and his confession.
Actually you are making excuses for Brown by using the entirely irrelevant example of your friend's wife in an analogy to discredit Brown's wife.
The comments sections in many of the articles have..
this is off the field personal conduct policy, and the Giants and The league (we are led to assume) were acting on flawed information, and likely lies by Brown. Still poor PR and lousy follow up, but its not game altering its entirely off field, so draft picks would be outrageous.
This isn't video taping opponents, nor deflating footballs, its not cheating to alter a game outcome, its a player who did bad things far from a football field that have slowly come to light.
It does not reflect well on the league nor the giants but unless the Giants are proven to have known everything up and until the new stuff and deliberately misled the league (and do ANY of you think the giants would do that being that its us usually on the end of a league screwing over us playing good guys...)
Then there is no precedent for draft picks over this, the League is equally as culpable here, they did a ham fisted investigation and were quite willing to sit with what they knew or thought they knew about Brown until the new stuff came out.
The league screwed up, The Giants screwed up, its bad PR but not game changing in an on the field manner,. other than the Giants being disadvantaged over kickers and rosters and money, if anything opponents have benefited by the suspensions, not vice versa. And no Im not saying poor Giants, I'm saying draft picks is bloody stupid talk bandied by people who just want to keep clawing at an open wound.
They cut his ass. That was the right thing to do. They never should have resigned his ass, but they did, now the Giants have paid in money, turmoil, and ugly press.
Only those that have played the game know this. Not all but a high percentage live on the wild side which gives them the edge to play a violent game. Do they beat their wives? Not all but they do a lot of fucked up shit. For you people to say you don't want any of these players on your team I'm sure 15-20 on this team have done some stuff that you would not find acceptable. You really need to follow another sport. All of you (I guess) would have called for his head.
If John Mara goes on record saying...
M.S. : 4:02 pm : link : reply
..."our decisions were misguided," then he has an obligation to be a lot more explicit.
Who does he have this "obligation" to? The fans? Or to the moral high ground group that will applaud this move and then start focusing on the next situation?
If John Mara goes on record saying...
M.S. : 4:02 pm : link : reply
..."our decisions were misguided," then he has an obligation to be a lot more explicit.
Who does he have this "obligation" to? The fans? Or to the moral high ground group that will applaud this move and then start focusing on the next situation?
He really doesn't have any obligation whatsoever.
Why not? The NFL and its teams have decided to stick their noses into the personal, off-field problems of its employees to burnish its image for the public. Having undertaken that task, which they were not obligated to do, they now have a responsibility to that public.
@TomRock_Newsday
John Mara: "Our beliefs, our judgments and our decisions were misguided. We accept that responsibility."
Hopefully we play this right moving forward because we look pretty bad right now.
Yep, it's definitely the way to go and the right move at this point. Like I said, hope this passes relatively quickly.
Looks like they have a good publicist who understands the social media lynch mob! :)
My feelings are irrelevant.
People critical of the NFL and/or the Giants are not truly factoring in what was known and when. The Giants simply did not have the benefit of the journal/sherriff's report until I believe the day before they left for London.
Once all the information was available they made a decision they felt was appropriate.
You could argue that even given the shred of details available in January or February when they re-signed Brown the Giants made a mistake, and that's a perfectly fine opinion.
Exactly the right strategy.
Exactly the right strategy.
I really didn't see a way out of this myself -- Brown dug the hole all by himself -- and it stinks
He had to go. He probably knew this too
Hopefully we play this right moving forward because we look pretty bad right now.
The court of public opinion is never to be condoned nor accepted.
We'll likely never know the real or full story to his abuses. He sounds like a verbal abuser and an overbearing SOB and possibly(likely) a liar. We'll never know the real reason - was it him, her or both.
I'm glad it is over, but I never felt that the Giants intended to mislead anyone - more likely tried to help the family out.
Josh Brown's statement via @Giants is a bit different than the one he released earlier. Gone is where he said he "never struck" his wife.
My feelings are irrelevant.
People critical of the NFL and/or the Giants are not truly factoring in what was known and when. The Giants simply did not have the benefit of the journal/sherriff's report until I believe the day before they left for London.
Once all the information was available they made a decision they felt was appropriate.
You could argue that even given the shred of details available in January or February when they re-signed Brown the Giants made a mistake, and that's a perfectly fine opinion.
Perfectly stated. Unfortunately nobody will ever really know the extent of what was known and when it was known by the Giants. While it's possible that they had full disclosure in January and decided to re-sign the guy it is just as possible that they didn't. All of the armchair sleuths in the world will never know that answer.
Make no mistake, because of the timing of this (in the middle of a post Ray Rice and Greg Hardy NFL) this will go down as a black eye on the franchise. Maybe it should, if for no other reason that in such a visible business you have to be extra sensitive to issues such as these, whether it's right or not.
Inclined to believe Mara wanted to not get into he said she said, and that brown may have shared some but also probably lied to him about details.
It's good they cut him. Don't know why they waited until today other than to tone down the circus prior to a game in London.
1. signing him knowing he had a DV charge/restraining order
2. not cutting him when this came to light in the summer.
in brown's statement today before he was released, he remained somewhat defiant, toning down his actions by saying he did not strike his ex-wife as if to say "I'm not as bad as ray rice as I only grabbed wrists and manhandled her; I didn't knock her out".
He does lose his chance in belonging to this exclusive club and I have no issue if he never plays again due to his age.
I'm wondering if he smooth talked the Giants into keeping him around. They look stupid for doing so, and Josh's explanation should not have been the only factor.. but still.. compound that with the seeming lack of evidence and maybe we are closer to an answer on the Giants' thinking.
Now go make statements as a private citizen.
Serious question....are you ok rooting for Roger Lewis Jr?
by contrast, there were a number of incidents with brown, they eventually divorced and she obtained a restraining order which he allegedly violated. and even today he is still trying to downplay his actions by saying he didn't strike her.
one really bad assault for which the abuser was contrite and has been regaining trust vs multiple assaults, with no real contrition and no rebuilding of the relationship with the victim.
handling of this issue? Certainly
did not help the league in a turbulent
period.
He was charged with raping a girl twice in HS. Went to trial, found not guilty.
So he was never convicted - but neither has Josh Brown.
If you mean Ray Lewis, no he just was either the main culprit or at least complicit in the murder of a man and helped get rid of the bloody clothes. He was never suspended.
Now he works for ESPN and wears gators on Monday Nights. A true American success story.
My feelings are irrelevant.
People critical of the NFL and/or the Giants are not truly factoring in what was known and when. The Giants simply did not have the benefit of the journal/sherriff's report until I believe the day before they left for London.
Very well stated but it's much easier to join the rush to judgement group that this PC country has become. Let's all band together whether right or wrong. Choose the flavor of the day and solider on!
Once all the information was available they made a decision they felt was appropriate.
You could argue that even given the shred of details available in January or February when they re-signed Brown the Giants made a mistake, and that's a perfectly fine opinion.
Absolutely right the Giants cut him.
Absolutely should be out of league for at least some time.
What I don't know is anything close enough to judge him. Or this situation overall. He clearly did wrong. Does that invalidate the rest of his life?
Can I call him a wife beater? No. He needs help as I'm sure his wife does. I will guarantee this-those casting stones should probably just stop with watching the nfl. A lot of foul criminal element on teams.
Quote:
in saying that Lewis was accused, but charges were dropped? Or something along those lines?
If you mean Ray Lewis, no he just was either the main culprit or at least complicit in the murder of a man and helped get rid of the bloody clothes. He was never suspended.
Now he works for ESPN and wears gators on Monday Nights. A true American success story.
No, he means the WR Lewis on the Giants Roster.
I guess they should have kept Boswell last year; but he missed twice on Sunday, so who knows?
Quote:
.
Exactly the right strategy.
This
1. signing him knowing he had a DV charge/restraining order
2. not cutting him when this came to light in the summer.
in brown's statement today before he was released, he remained somewhat defiant, toning down his actions by saying he did not strike his ex-wife as if to say "I'm not as bad as ray rice as I only grabbed wrists and manhandled her; I didn't knock her out".
Les you do know you can get a restraining order when nothing happened and you do know that your wife can make a complaint about you this afternoon and you can be arrested or detained on her word only.
I'm not making excuses for Brown, just saying that wacky wives can make statements that are total lies. I have a friend whose wife did that and got a divorce, big alimony and total custody of the kids on total lies.
An employer has to be careful that he doesn't violate the accused's rights, also. I'm glad that Brown is gone because now it is obvious that there is meat on the bone. But before last Tuesday, there was only speculation and his confession.
No, he will feel vindicated.
Quote:
twice:
1. signing him knowing he had a DV charge/restraining order
2. not cutting him when this came to light in the summer.
in brown's statement today before he was released, he remained somewhat defiant, toning down his actions by saying he did not strike his ex-wife as if to say "I'm not as bad as ray rice as I only grabbed wrists and manhandled her; I didn't knock her out".
Les you do know you can get a restraining order when nothing happened and you do know that your wife can make a complaint about you this afternoon and you can be arrested or detained on her word only.
I'm not making excuses for Brown, just saying that wacky wives can make statements that are total lies. I have a friend whose wife did that and got a divorce, big alimony and total custody of the kids on total lies.
An employer has to be careful that he doesn't violate the accused's rights, also. I'm glad that Brown is gone because now it is obvious that there is meat on the bone. But before last Tuesday, there was only speculation and his confession.
Actually you are making excuses for Brown by using the entirely irrelevant example of your friend's wife in an analogy to discredit Brown's wife.
Agreed.
..."our decisions were misguided," then he has an obligation to be a lot more explicit.
"Misguided" is polite language for saying, "We're not going to disclose what we knew and when we knew it."
A very weak apology from an otherwise good and decent man.
This isn't video taping opponents, nor deflating footballs, its not cheating to alter a game outcome, its a player who did bad things far from a football field that have slowly come to light.
It does not reflect well on the league nor the giants but unless the Giants are proven to have known everything up and until the new stuff and deliberately misled the league (and do ANY of you think the giants would do that being that its us usually on the end of a league screwing over us playing good guys...)
Then there is no precedent for draft picks over this, the League is equally as culpable here, they did a ham fisted investigation and were quite willing to sit with what they knew or thought they knew about Brown until the new stuff came out.
The league screwed up, The Giants screwed up, its bad PR but not game changing in an on the field manner,. other than the Giants being disadvantaged over kickers and rosters and money, if anything opponents have benefited by the suspensions, not vice versa. And no Im not saying poor Giants, I'm saying draft picks is bloody stupid talk bandied by people who just want to keep clawing at an open wound.
They cut his ass. That was the right thing to do. They never should have resigned his ass, but they did, now the Giants have paid in money, turmoil, and ugly press.
M.S. : 4:02 pm : link : reply
..."our decisions were misguided," then he has an obligation to be a lot more explicit.
Who does he have this "obligation" to? The fans? Or to the moral high ground group that will applaud this move and then start focusing on the next situation?
He really doesn't have any obligation whatsoever.
I guess they should have kept Boswell last year; but he missed twice on Sunday, so who knows?
And I doubt we have heard the last of this.
Quote:
If John Mara goes on record saying...
M.S. : 4:02 pm : link : reply
..."our decisions were misguided," then he has an obligation to be a lot more explicit.
Who does he have this "obligation" to? The fans? Or to the moral high ground group that will applaud this move and then start focusing on the next situation?
He really doesn't have any obligation whatsoever.