Now some are picking apart the word "misguided?" Holy shit folks.
It's a multi-million dollar business. And this is a business decision, centered on people. Fans, Brown, the rfest of the Giants, the rest of the league.
I'll take that statement and run with it.
WShat I believe, based on history, is that the Giants believed that there was some slippery ground, that Brown had screwed up but was trying to go about things correctly, and that this would progress toward a guy getting his life together. Then information surfaced that gave the distinct impression that Brown had been somewhat deceptive. Now he says he never struck his wife?
Time to go.
I'm satisfied with the move, and with the statement.
Mara is taking the blame ...
What I worry about is if the NFL takes draft picks away
as punishment then I will be totally pissed because Josh
tried to save his job and not be totally honest .
Mara is not perfect here by any stretch but I am certainly
not going to lose respect for him either .
to give Brown every benefit of doubt AND not want it all to seem worse than it was by resigning him.
We all know the Giants have always been a players organization, even, like this time, to their detriment.
Then the report 10 days ago, it was worse than expected, maybe the 'misguided' was they believed JB more than the 1st reports, and maybe hoped things would get better, but a double fail.
They were forced to act last Wed/Thur,were lucky to find Gould had a passport, had to cut bait when people wouldnt let the backlash go.
RE: Look I really don't feel strongly one way or the other
on releasing Brown. I think DV is deplorable but I also believe in human beings being human and in some cases deserve second chances.
My feelings are irrelevant.
People critical of the NFL and/or the Giants are not truly factoring in what was known and when. The Giants simply did not have the benefit of the journal/sherriff's report until I believe the day before they left for London.
Once all the information was available they made a decision they felt was appropriate.
You could argue that even given the shred of details available in January or February when they re-signed Brown the Giants made a mistake, and that's a perfectly fine opinion.
The thing that bothers me, however, is that I imagine the Giants must have ASKED Josh Brown what happened (if they didn't, they certainly didn't do their due diligence) and at that time, I think one of two things must have happened: 1) Brown LIED to them about the extent of his problem, or 2) the Giants owners, management and coaches knew that Brown had some serious DA issues and chose to sign him anyway. That is why I am critical of the Giants organization, and I think rightfully so. On these points, I don't think there is a whole lot of gray area. If his issues are significant enough now to release him, they were significant enough then to not re-sign him.
1. signing him knowing he had a DV charge/restraining order
2. not cutting him when this came to light in the summer.
in brown's statement today before he was released, he remained somewhat defiant, toning down his actions by saying he did not strike his ex-wife as if to say "I'm not as bad as ray rice as I only grabbed wrists and manhandled her; I didn't knock her out".
Les you do know you can get a restraining order when nothing happened and you do know that your wife can make a complaint about you this afternoon and you can be arrested or detained on her word only.
I'm not making excuses for Brown, just saying that wacky wives can make statements that are total lies. I have a friend whose wife did that and got a divorce, big alimony and total custody of the kids on total lies.
An employer has to be careful that he doesn't violate the accused's rights, also. I'm glad that Brown is gone because now it is obvious that there is meat on the bone. But before last Tuesday, there was only speculation and his confession.
Actually you are making excuses for Brown by using the entirely irrelevant example of your friend's wife in an analogy to discredit Brown's wife.
I am sick and tired of being told what I am doing. Try some reading comprehension. I am not making any excuse for Brown. I said that Mara and the Giants must be careful about disciplining somebody based on a DV charge or arrest. Try reading. If a woman makes a complaint and asks for a restraining order, the police err on the side of safety as they should do, especially if there are marks and bruises. Most times the charge is true, sometimes it is not and I gave an example of when it is not.
I think the team tried to balance supporting the player in the context
Of the info they knew at the time with being congnixant of the seriousness of the issue. It's not easy and they're not allowed to just react reflexively like we always do. Hopefully they'll move on and get their team focused on winning.
I was listening to the sports center top of the hour when they announced Brown was released. Immediately after the heavingly sighed over Roethlisberger not being able to practice or play this week. Now I don't know if it's because one is old and one is new, or the celebrity of the player or about versus kicker, or if we're focused on domestic assault with ennui about sexual assault, but the juxtaposition was interesting.
the Roger Lewis situation is pretty murky. It involves two teenagers and a he-said, she-said scenario. The alleged victim claims that she was raped on two separate occasions, one month apart, the first time in the basement of a mutual friend's house during a party and the second in the back seat of her car. He asserts that they had a long-term consensual sexual relationship but she became jealous when he started dating another girl and accused him of rape.
It's not exactly a given that he is a high school rapist who avoided incarceration because of a legal technicality.
If John Mara goes on record saying...
M.S. : 4:02 pm : link : reply
..."our decisions were misguided," then he has an obligation to be a lot more explicit.
Who does he have this "obligation" to? The fans? Or to the moral high ground group that will applaud this move and then start focusing on the next situation?
He really doesn't have any obligation whatsoever.
His obligation began the second he opened his mouth. And for him to spout the word "misguided" is a major cop out. John Mara wants to show us his contrition without the confession. My question remains the same: What did he know and when did he know it?
Since coming to the Giants in 2013 Brown has hit over 90% of FGs each and every year including this season.
That's elite kicking.
Say whatever you want about Brown but I won't sit back and think to myself ohh boy Gould sure is an upgrade. He's not.
Agreed. But this year, with the off the field stuff, Gould is a good signing and hopefully takes the wind out of the sails of any potential locker room issues. But, yeah, the people who would have us think Gould is a better athlete are wrong.
RE: Anyone calling Gould an upgrade over Brown is wrong
Since coming to the Giants in 2013 Brown has hit over 90% of FGs each and every year including this season.
That's elite kicking.
Say whatever you want about Brown but I won't sit back and think to myself ohh boy Gould sure is an upgrade. He's not.
Agreed. But this year, with the off the field stuff, Gould is a good signing and hopefully takes the wind out of the sails of any potential locker room issues. But, yeah, the people who would have us think Gould is a better athlete are wrong.
Apart from bad press and looking stupid the fact is Josh Brown has cost the Giants $675,000 for Bullock, $637,532 for Gould (assuming he is vested also... so he gets that money) and 1 million plus 500K guaranteed for Brown, barring game money and other items. Bloody expensive mistake all round.
I hear you but it's like a rounding error w this league
reached for the phone. In most states this would not have warranted an arrest, but Washington is very progressive about stopping domestic violence. The investigating detective found no evidence that he had been violent with his wife and recommended that charges be filed under the Domestic Abuse 4th Degree, which is reserved for non-violent spouses before they become violent.
The prosecutor did not even want to charge him with the 4th Degree, and that was Brown's downfall, assuming that he never did strike his wife. A trial would have brought out the true story based on examination of husband and wife and any other 3rd parties.
With no judicial proceeding to go on, the media had no problem in convicting the guy of "physical abuse" without ever being clear as to what he did to his wife, but implying that it was pretty ugly.
So the guy loses his livelihood and good name without ever having been convicted or even charged with any crime.
If Brown had been tried for that misdemeanor as the detective recommended, and the lawyers had it out with both parties, wouldn't we have a much better idea of what Brown did?
I think it was pretty significant that the detective only suggested he be charged for the lowest offense. Usually they charge with a higher offense so they can bargain down to the lesser crime if they don't think they had a very strong case.
That's elite kicking.
Say whatever you want about Brown but I won't sit back and think to myself ohh boy Gould sure is an upgrade. He's not.
Quote:
Hypocrite
No, he will feel vindicated.
Will he comment on the Temple student attacked?
Shaun King? - ( New Window )
Now some are picking apart the word "misguided?" Holy shit folks.
It's a multi-million dollar business. And this is a business decision, centered on people. Fans, Brown, the rfest of the Giants, the rest of the league.
I'll take that statement and run with it.
WShat I believe, based on history, is that the Giants believed that there was some slippery ground, that Brown had screwed up but was trying to go about things correctly, and that this would progress toward a guy getting his life together. Then information surfaced that gave the distinct impression that Brown had been somewhat deceptive. Now he says he never struck his wife?
Time to go.
I'm satisfied with the move, and with the statement.
What I worry about is if the NFL takes draft picks away
as punishment then I will be totally pissed because Josh
tried to save his job and not be totally honest .
Mara is not perfect here by any stretch but I am certainly
not going to lose respect for him either .
We all know the Giants have always been a players organization, even, like this time, to their detriment.
Then the report 10 days ago, it was worse than expected, maybe the 'misguided' was they believed JB more than the 1st reports, and maybe hoped things would get better, but a double fail.
They were forced to act last Wed/Thur,were lucky to find Gould had a passport, had to cut bait when people wouldnt let the backlash go.
My feelings are irrelevant.
People critical of the NFL and/or the Giants are not truly factoring in what was known and when. The Giants simply did not have the benefit of the journal/sherriff's report until I believe the day before they left for London.
Once all the information was available they made a decision they felt was appropriate.
You could argue that even given the shred of details available in January or February when they re-signed Brown the Giants made a mistake, and that's a perfectly fine opinion.
The thing that bothers me, however, is that I imagine the Giants must have ASKED Josh Brown what happened (if they didn't, they certainly didn't do their due diligence) and at that time, I think one of two things must have happened: 1) Brown LIED to them about the extent of his problem, or 2) the Giants owners, management and coaches knew that Brown had some serious DA issues and chose to sign him anyway. That is why I am critical of the Giants organization, and I think rightfully so. On these points, I don't think there is a whole lot of gray area. If his issues are significant enough now to release him, they were significant enough then to not re-sign him.
Quote:
In comment 13190819 Les in TO said:
Quote:
twice:
1. signing him knowing he had a DV charge/restraining order
2. not cutting him when this came to light in the summer.
in brown's statement today before he was released, he remained somewhat defiant, toning down his actions by saying he did not strike his ex-wife as if to say "I'm not as bad as ray rice as I only grabbed wrists and manhandled her; I didn't knock her out".
Les you do know you can get a restraining order when nothing happened and you do know that your wife can make a complaint about you this afternoon and you can be arrested or detained on her word only.
I'm not making excuses for Brown, just saying that wacky wives can make statements that are total lies. I have a friend whose wife did that and got a divorce, big alimony and total custody of the kids on total lies.
An employer has to be careful that he doesn't violate the accused's rights, also. I'm glad that Brown is gone because now it is obvious that there is meat on the bone. But before last Tuesday, there was only speculation and his confession.
Actually you are making excuses for Brown by using the entirely irrelevant example of your friend's wife in an analogy to discredit Brown's wife.
I am sick and tired of being told what I am doing. Try some reading comprehension. I am not making any excuse for Brown. I said that Mara and the Giants must be careful about disciplining somebody based on a DV charge or arrest. Try reading. If a woman makes a complaint and asks for a restraining order, the police err on the side of safety as they should do, especially if there are marks and bruises. Most times the charge is true, sometimes it is not and I gave an example of when it is not.
I was listening to the sports center top of the hour when they announced Brown was released. Immediately after the heavingly sighed over Roethlisberger not being able to practice or play this week. Now I don't know if it's because one is old and one is new, or the celebrity of the player or about versus kicker, or if we're focused on domestic assault with ennui about sexual assault, but the juxtaposition was interesting.
It's not exactly a given that he is a high school rapist who avoided incarceration because of a legal technicality.
Quote:
If John Mara goes on record saying...
M.S. : 4:02 pm : link : reply
..."our decisions were misguided," then he has an obligation to be a lot more explicit.
Who does he have this "obligation" to? The fans? Or to the moral high ground group that will applaud this move and then start focusing on the next situation?
He really doesn't have any obligation whatsoever.
His obligation began the second he opened his mouth. And for him to spout the word "misguided" is a major cop out. John Mara wants to show us his contrition without the confession. My question remains the same: What did he know and when did he know it?
Quote:
Hypocrite
wut lol
Gonna remember this one next time you call someone a "race baiter"
That's elite kicking.
Say whatever you want about Brown but I won't sit back and think to myself ohh boy Gould sure is an upgrade. He's not.
Agreed. But this year, with the off the field stuff, Gould is a good signing and hopefully takes the wind out of the sails of any potential locker room issues. But, yeah, the people who would have us think Gould is a better athlete are wrong.
That's elite kicking.
Say whatever you want about Brown but I won't sit back and think to myself ohh boy Gould sure is an upgrade. He's not.
Agreed. But this year, with the off the field stuff, Gould is a good signing and hopefully takes the wind out of the sails of any potential locker room issues. But, yeah, the people who would have us think Gould is a better athlete are wrong.
I hear you but it's like a rounding error w this league
The prosecutor did not even want to charge him with the 4th Degree, and that was Brown's downfall, assuming that he never did strike his wife. A trial would have brought out the true story based on examination of husband and wife and any other 3rd parties.
With no judicial proceeding to go on, the media had no problem in convicting the guy of "physical abuse" without ever being clear as to what he did to his wife, but implying that it was pretty ugly.
So the guy loses his livelihood and good name without ever having been convicted or even charged with any crime.
Chris in Philly : 6:50 am : link : reply
read more.
A lot more. Like, a lot lot more.
Quote:
You should...
Chris in Philly : 6:50 am : link : reply
read more.
A lot more. Like, a lot lot more.
Reese's Pieces must be posting from the past...like when the story originally broke.
Quote:
Quote:
You should...
Chris in Philly : 6:50 am : link : reply
read more.
A lot more. Like, a lot lot more.
Reese's Pieces must be posting from the past...like when the story originally broke.
Hmm.
I think it was pretty significant that the detective only suggested he be charged for the lowest offense. Usually they charge with a higher offense so they can bargain down to the lesser crime if they don't think they had a very strong case.