Some if this was covered here since, but been to the London game and sat quite close to the field so figured this is worth posting.
D-line: this may come as a surprise, but OV is a stud. Wrecks havoc and creates a ton of pressure. Very high motor and hustles. Spent an enormous amount of time in the backfield, even when playing LE. The problem is his short arms. Often times he comes very close to the QB and it looks like the sack is imminent, but a last second step up by the QB or shove from the already beaten tackle sends the QB out of his grip. If he had JPP's arms, he would have had 5 sacks in that game. It appears his sack numbers will always suffer as a result, and he will always be a high hurry/high pressure/low sack numbers DE. His numbers from last year aren't deceiving in that sense. He also appears to be very banged up. Its not just the wrist. His legs appear to be in bad shape. He is slow to recover from plays and appears in significant pain.
JPP on the other hand, gives maximum effort but I think what he is now is what he will ultimately be. He looks like he has lost a step and some upper body strength compared to the 2011 version. Don't see him returning to that form. Was handled 1x1 for significant periods of the night.
RO looks much superior to OO at this point. Long, lengthy and gave the Rams OL trouble on a couple of occasions even though it wasn't translated to sacks.
Bromley was a pleasant surprise. Gave the guards trouble and constantly won ground against them. When he filled in for Harrison or Hankins no significant drip off was felt.
Harrison is an absolute king. Moves laterally extremely well while maintaining strength. Very impressive.
- Aside from OV, the studs of the game were Collins and Kennard. Collins plays on a speed of his own. Excellent in recognizing the play and reacting fast. Both of those guys excel at recognizing plays and tackling. When they tackle - the play is over. The other LB's should take notes. Collins was practicing catching the ball in warm ups, looked smooth doing it and it showed in the game.
- Eli Apple has a way to go before he can be mentioned with DRC in the same breath. From up close DRC looks the better athlete and player. He is smooth in his movements, recognizes the play and is accurate in his contact and passes defensed. The ints are a bonus, he was a stud. I think the crowd that is calling for his release in the summer because Apple is there should take a breath. Right now that will be a significant downgrade.
Jenkins lost coverage a few times when the ball went in another direction, otherwise he would have been burned.
- Pugh is a monster. He is just huge, even compared to his fellow linemen, and plays with a mean streak.
At least in this game, the tackles played well, better than the interior, save for Pugh. Richburg is having real trouble. He is constantly pushed back a yard or two right off the snap which makes it hard for his guards, for Eli who has to look sideways quickly and for the RB who has a D-lineman closer to him sooner than affordable to bust an efficient run. This has to be corrected if the Giants want a chance against a better team. Right now Richburg looks like the weakest link on the line, which is a surprise.
- I'm sorry, but Jennings is just bad. Follows the playcall regardless of what transpires infront of him. If I'll see another 1 yard run by Jennings I'll...nevermind. He doesn't create anything. Get Perkins on the field asap. Shifty and gutsy. You could see it even at warm ups when he demonstrated his ability to allude defenders.
- Eli is troubling. Played a very robotic game. It was clear he made up his mind where the ball was going prior to the snap and rarely changed his mind. Looked very stubborn in his avoidance of looking at Beckham. On some plays Beckham was left 1x1 with a single high safety and Eli's first read was Donnel(???), second Sheppard, third Cruz and Beckham didn't even get a look. The play often resulted in an incompletion or a very short gain. I hope nothing is wrong in the relationship there because it sure did look that way. The crowd on a few occasions got frustrated with Beckham being open and not even getting a look from Eli.
On other occasions, he just fires the ball away recklessly. A couple of times (including Beckham's big play in the 4th to set up Jenning's TD) he threw balls that had no business to be thrown. Beckham was noticeably surprised the ball was coming his way, but managed to turn nothing into something.
Other times, he is very inaccurate. Balls are consistently underthrown, and reach the ground where the receiver has to step back and dive to try and recover the ball. Rarely hits a receiver in stride.
- Cruz was getting sufficient separation. His issue seems to be the shiftiness and breakaway speed which don't appear to be back yet. The one having trouble to get separation is Shep. He is blanketed a majority of the time. I think those two can benefit from a change in roles: have Shep line up on the outside more often and move Cruz inside. I think that will make better use of Shep's speed and Cruz's ability to create separation in a relatively small space. Plus of course, they will see different defenders and the defense will have to (assuming thats allowed in the Macadoo regime) adjust...
- Which brings me to the coaching: I apologize in advance for extreme phrases in this segment and admittedly I am not an expert, just a long time fan.
But the coaching was just atrocious. I'll get to the X's and O's, but you could feel it just by the attitude of the players - with the exception of Collins who looked like a tiger, was in position and ready to attack at all times, everyone else just looked lazy, going through the motions, late to line up, no bend to the knees, and in general appeared like they are playing in second gear. The Rams appeared to spend much more energy, effort and fire in every play. The Giants looked like they were forced to play. From a fans perspective - a very uninspiring attitude. With all the s--t that Beckham had to take the past few weeks, just give me 11 Beckhams on the team and I'll be fine. Beckham was injured, yet fired up. Pugh is another one that looked to be engaged in the game. The majority of the rest just looked apathetic. Regardless of the result, That in itself is an embarrassment to the coaching staff.
Spags had a good game plan - limit Gurley and make Keenum win. The same can't be said for the offense. The fact that Donnel even saw the field again after his fumble on the second play of the game is a testament to this coaching staffs weakness. Demand some accountability. I'm not promoting the German tactics of TC, but Donnel is a recurring offender. A message has to be sent, or we will continue to lose the turnover battle and work our way from 10-0 deficits to open games. Against better teams than the depleted Ravens and Rams it won't work.
I find Macadoo to be an ultra conservative and risk averse coach. Even last season Coughlin had to get on his case to throw the ball down the field. Its amazing how simplistic the game plan was. Always a 3 receiver set, always a 4 yard shot after less than 2 seconds. I understand the team doesn't have a fullback, any blocking from its TE's, the line is bad, I Get all of that. But if you don't find a way to take some shots downfield, when you have some receivers capable of stretching the field, even to keep defenses from loading the box on you, just to keep them honest, than you'r in trouble.
The playcalling was achingly predictable. The crowd was made of British people who watch way less Football (or Giants for that matter) than us, and half way through the first quarter everyone knew before the snap where the ball was going. There was a consensus in the stands pre snap, and the crowd was rarely wrong. So no wonder the offense does nothing. There is a very limited selection of plays, and none of them is an actual threat to the defense. The ease in which the Giants turn away from their strong weapons (Beckham) to their weak ones (Donnel, Tye) is alarming. If Beckham gets his first look in the second quarter, than the defense is already winning. They are making you beat them with your weakest weapons.
But most of all, it was just boring, boring football. The defense gave us some excitement with the ints, but the offense was the poster child of boring, scared football. Its like Mac doesn't have faith in any offensive unit. Despite the win, the Rams fans had more to be proud about: despite suffering from inferior talent, they played to win. Took shots downfield. Played with intensity and hard.
Thats it. Fire away.
Richburg is not playing well. It looks like a lack of strength. He's being walked back to the QB too often.
RO and Bromley have played well. Think OV is hurting as you note.
Agree we need to play Perkins more instead of Jennings.
Eli seems to have lost something in terms of arm strength and accuracy. But he clearly doesn't trust his OL, which is not without merit. He also has no run game, and no TEs, at least none that can really threaten the middle of the field. Tye is a nice check down option to move the chains, but he won't beat anyone down the seam.
Collins has been awesome.
The play calling is very predictable.
richburg has been a major disappointment this year, especially after calling out his teammates in the offseason. he's a big reason the run game is not getting any traction and eli is getting rid of the ball so quickly.
He seemed to to just fine last year...
sorry to be a dick, but that is a terrible review - the GIANTS WON THE DAMN GAME
+1
Pride is one of the seven deadly sins.
I'll take the win.
But he's gotta be carved up over it.
I've figured out it out sometime back, the critics aren't about football and they're not about their fellow joggers; they're about pulling fifteen minutes out of what Thoreau called "living life's of quiet desperation" and trying to denigrate someone who's out trying in a positive sense and feeling better for it.
They don't realize their posts reflect on them, not the op.
The OL has had its ups and downs, but I cannot, for the life of me figure out who is to blame. Flowers has been average, but not many people can say hes been worse than last year. Pugh and Jerry have been the most consistent and probably best lineman. Hart hasnt been good, but he hasnt been that much worse than Newhouse was last year. The only real difference is Richburg, who was a Top 5 C last year both in pass and run blocking has not played near that level.
The Giants were disinterested; the Rams gave a pride-worthy performance...and the Giants won???
Yeah, he needs to be called out on that.
thing personal . I think the one thing that I do miss
watching the game is some of the line play when I am
focused on the ball .
The Rams especially on defense just looked fast and always
seem to sniff out every thing we tried and they contested
every play rarely missing a solid tackle pretty much
zero in YAK . If it wasn't for the defense we would
have lost this game .
The Playcalling or at least disguising what we are trying
to do is non existent . We fool nobody and I will say it again
too many times I knew exactly where the ball was going .
as did the Rams .
Want a team of savages again. Even Flowers seems to have lost his nasty temperament and is just going thru the motions. Intensity matters, it's an emotional game!
HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa....oh my sides...HaHaHaHaHaHa!!!!!!
Count me in as one of the BBI orginals who increasingly think this site has become almost as much a toxic environment as our society at large, as witnessed by our current election season.
Thanks for putting forth the effort on your post, Shocktobeck. I for one did appreciate it.
As the Wicked Witch said as she was melting, "What a world, what a world..."
Really? Then does he just not catch a high percentage of those? He seems to have barely any catches every game.
Going to the game doesn't mean anything. Hope it was a good time. But, I disagree with a lot of your conjecture.
But he's gotta be carved up over it.
I've figured out it out sometime back, the critics aren't about football and they're not about their fellow joggers; they're about pulling fifteen minutes out of what Thoreau called "living life's of quiet desperation" and trying to denigrate someone who's out trying in a positive sense and feeling better for it.
They don't realize their posts reflect on them, not the op.
Yes, thank you. Great PO post above. And it's easy to carp about individual assessments of players but in general I was seeing exactly what the PO is talking about. I think we all can see it. Lackadasical play, boring, predictable play calling, tight-end stupidity, frightened coaching. It's like the team is playing in a paper bag.
It's a surprise that OV is a stud? I certainly hope not considering we just gave him a massive contract.
The problem is his short arms, eh? Nevermind the fact that he has an 86 inch wingspan, which is 5 inches more than JPP's.
Obviously you didn't.
Quote:
D-line: this may come as a surprise, but OV is a stud. Wrecks havoc and creates a ton of pressure. Very high motor and hustles. Spent an enormous amount of time in the backfield, even when playing LE. The problem is his short arms.
It's a surprise that OV is a stud? I certainly hope not considering we just gave him a massive contract.
The problem is his short arms, eh? Nevermind the fact that he has an 86 inch wingspan, which is 5 inches more than JPP's.
Oh jeez, you people and your "facts".
I enjoyed him reading Eli's mind and stating that the relationship between them must be frayed because Eli wasn't looking at him.
You know, because those close seats let you see not just the QB's eyes, but his soul.
This is probably the worst writeup that's hit BBI in years, but because certain sensitive trolls will get up in arms and start e-mailing Eric about it and complaining full tilt, we're forced to sit here and eat it.
and other observations that confirmed what we saw on tv- eli getting the ball out as fast as possible, lack of variety in formations/looks, etc
and other observations that confirmed what we saw on tv- eli getting the ball out as fast as possible, lack of variety in formations/looks, etc
Those were good observations? Did you read the little tidbit above about Vernon's short arms?
Quote:
good observations that did not get picked up easily on tv: sheppard's lack of separation, the body language of the defense, Vernon getting close but his short arms preventing a number of sacks, beckham being ignored on a lot of plays, JPP getting stood up consistently, richburg getting pushed back, bromley playing stout, Kennard all over the place
and other observations that confirmed what we saw on tv- eli getting the ball out as fast as possible, lack of variety in formations/looks, etc
Those were good observations? Did you read the little tidbit above about Vernon's short arms?
I also don't think it's necessary to crap on an infrequent poster who took the time to write a lengthy first hand account of the game - we need more of that (just like the great first hand camp reports we used to get from Albany) and less of the snarky hate filled responses that discourages those observations.
Be down on the Giants all you want but at least use real facts!
It's a long opinion piece that fits some posters agenda. If you want to agree with it fine, but it's okay to say it's got a lot of BS in it, too.
Be down on the Giants all you want but at least use real facts!
Sure seems like the fans around here were a lot more pleased with the Ravens win than the Rams game yet the Giants played a cleaner better game against the Rams.
The offense can have a bad game as long as the Giants win. Chalk it up to good fortune and hope they play better next game.
Really funny because I watched the game with 3 Rams fans and they spent most of the game bitching about their team committing penalties and waiting for the eventual Keenum errors. Didn't hear them say anything about intensity and fight. Heard a lot of bitching at their OT for penalties, Keenum for the INT's and Austin for his lack of effort.
Actually made me very happy to be a Giants fan. Of course until I got home and fired up BBI at 1PM.
That includes those who expressed opinions in total contrast to mine, thats actually welcome, after all none of us would be here if everyone was in complete agreement 100% of the time...I welcome arguments as I love the Giants, love discussing the Giants, and love learning new things about the Giants. If its through correcting me when I'm wrong thats great.
You each have your own style and the feisty posters actually provide some of the best and most humurous moments reading this board so please continue...
So no need to defend me folks, and those who are worried I'll get discouraged from posting again - appreciate it, but don't worry. Nothing written here is taken personally outside of a football context and I actually enjoy witnessing folks defending the Giants, even if its against something I expressed.
Count me out of the crowd that wishes to have their own opinion being reiterated backnat them. Opposing and conceding opinions are equally welcome.
So lets move on to Football, and particularly OV:
The reason his play came as a surprise to me is this was the first time I witnessed him live and not through the TV. On TV he didn't look like a stud so far, his stats so far don't indicate a stud, and I fail to see the correlation between the size of his contract to his perceived level of play after he signed it (There are numerous examples of oversized contracts being handed to players who didn't play up to par). The surprise was, that watching him up close while not being limited by TV I saw things I didn't see before, and his effect on the game vastly exceeded his previous stat sheet and my impression of him through the TV. Thought it was worth mentioning to those who, like me, haven't witnessed him in live action.
On to his arm length: I actually disagree with the notion that wingspan and arm length are the same. Both are relevant to assessing DE play IMV, but they are different parameters serving different purposes and coming into play in different phases of DE play, and in Vernon's case the difference is apparent: His quick and strong legs, low center of gravity and flexibility help him get close to the QB quick and with a head of steam. And then I've repeatedly witnesses the following happen: a shove to his BODY sent him just far enough of the QB for the latter to barely escape his grasp. In other words, where his body went his "inner arm" (the arm closer to the spin and QB) wasn't long enough to recover. Any of you who ever played DE would immediately know what I mean: the body and one arm (the "outside"'arm) can be shoved in one direction while on the run while the closer arm to the target can recover while being sent straight ahead maintaining the innertion to the target even if the rest of the body was shoved - thats the situation where arm length comes into play, not wingspan (which is more relevant to other situations in the game). That was what I observed from OV. Watch JPP in the same situation and notice his success rate is better as he manages to recover from the shove a higher percentage of the time.
Thats not a knock on OV. No player is perfect and as I mentioned, he brings a lot of value to the table.
Lastly, I''m sorry but win or lose is only one parameter in my experience as a fan. Perhaps for some of you its 100% of the experience and I respect that. But for me, Ofcourse its a big part of the equation and I feel good about the win, but I can definitely feel encouraged and optimistic after a loss, while on the other hand pesimistic and depressed after a win.
I remember the 2004 season, after Eli took over from Warner. The team sucked, went from being 5-2 to 5-10 entering the last game of the season against Dallas, but you could see the progress, you could see Eli growing almost each week, and by the last game of the season you could feel something good is cooking.
I watch football because its the closest thing in modern times to a simulation of war. I watch it because the players are today's gladiators. I watch it to get inspired. I watch it to get reminded of men comradery that was more present in our life at youth. I care about those things at least as much as I care about the score. Give me a winning attitude and I can take some losses. Give me a scared attitude and a win isn't providing me the feeling it should. Thats just me.
Sports are beautiful in wins or losses. Its the story behind those that make it great. Not just the final score. Again - imo.
The way a team plays using terms like - flat, boring, uninspired, unemotional, etc. isn't based on their actual demeanor, it is based on your perceptions.
And if you look at the game as a war, then you must realize there are two sides to every battle and one doesn't just war with itself. which is also in direct conflict with many observations. One could say watching the game that Keenum played scared and made many poor throws to avoid getting hit. That's probably not accurate, but I'm sure the rams board says that.
The Rams fans I watched the game with want Goff to start after the bye.
That includes those who expressed opinions in total contrast to mine, thats actually welcome, after all none of us would be here if everyone was in complete agreement 100% of the time...I welcome arguments as I love the Giants, love discussing the Giants, and love learning new things about the Giants. If its through correcting me when I'm wrong thats great.
You each have your own style and the feisty posters actually provide some of the best and most humurous moments reading this board so please continue...
So no need to defend me folks, and those who are worried I'll get discouraged from posting again - appreciate it, but don't worry. Nothing written here is taken personally outside of a football context and I actually enjoy witnessing folks defending the Giants, even if its against something I expressed.
Count me out of the crowd that wishes to have their own opinion being reiterated backnat them. Opposing and conceding opinions are equally welcome.
So lets move on to Football, and particularly OV:
The reason his play came as a surprise to me is this was the first time I witnessed him live and not through the TV. On TV he didn't look like a stud so far, his stats so far don't indicate a stud, and I fail to see the correlation between the size of his contract to his perceived level of play after he signed it (There are numerous examples of oversized contracts being handed to players who didn't play up to par). The surprise was, that watching him up close while not being limited by TV I saw things I didn't see before, and his effect on the game vastly exceeded his previous stat sheet and my impression of him through the TV. Thought it was worth mentioning to those who, like me, haven't witnessed him in live action.
On to his arm length: I actually disagree with the notion that wingspan and arm length are the same. Both are relevant to assessing DE play IMV, but they are different parameters serving different purposes and coming into play in different phases of DE play, and in Vernon's case the difference is apparent: His quick and strong legs, low center of gravity and flexibility help him get close to the QB quick and with a head of steam. And then I've repeatedly witnesses the following happen: a shove to his BODY sent him just far enough of the QB for the latter to barely escape his grasp. In other words, where his body went his "inner arm" (the arm closer to the spin and QB) wasn't long enough to recover. Any of you who ever played DE would immediately know what I mean: the body and one arm (the "outside"'arm) can be shoved in one direction while on the run while the closer arm to the target can recover while being sent straight ahead maintaining the innertion to the target even if the rest of the body was shoved - thats the situation where arm length comes into play, not wingspan (which is more relevant to other situations in the game). That was what I observed from OV. Watch JPP in the same situation and notice his success rate is better as he manages to recover from the shove a higher percentage of the time.
Thats not a knock on OV. No player is perfect and as I mentioned, he brings a lot of value to the table.
Lastly, I''m sorry but win or lose is only one parameter in my experience as a fan. Perhaps for some of you its 100% of the experience and I respect that. But for me, Ofcourse its a big part of the equation and I feel good about the win, but I can definitely feel encouraged and optimistic after a loss, while on the other hand pesimistic and depressed after a win.
I remember the 2004 season, after Eli took over from Warner. The team sucked, went from being 5-2 to 5-10 entering the last game of the season against Dallas, but you could see the progress, you could see Eli growing almost each week, and by the last game of the season you could feel something good is cooking.
I watch football because its the closest thing in modern times to a simulation of war. I watch it because the players are today's gladiators. I watch it to get inspired. I watch it to get reminded of men comradery that was more present in our life at youth. I care about those things at least as much as I care about the score. Give me a winning attitude and I can take some losses. Give me a scared attitude and a win isn't providing me the feeling it should. Thats just me.
Sports are beautiful in wins or losses. Its the story behind those that make it great. Not just the final score. Again - imo.
in terms of the quality of the win - I get what you are saying - the offense managed the game and played conservatively instead of going for the throat so to speak. given the rams were doing a great job of shooting themselves in the foot, that turned out to be a winning strategy. but against teams with better offenses, McAdoo will need to unlock the playbook.