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Josh Brown thoughts

Hilary : 10/27/2016 5:38 am
1.The giants should have looked for another kicker in the off season to avoid distractions and the problem of using cap space for multiple kickers.

2.I do not approve of Josh Brown as a person but I am concerned about the public release and the use of papers he was asked by his psychiatrist or marriage counselor to create as part of his therapy and improvement.

3.It is not clear to me that employers should take on the role of the criminal justice system.It does not seem right that a person who is not in jail should not be allowed to work.

4.In this type of case it would seem better to let him work and send a portion of his salary to a trust fund for the abused wife and the children
Number 3 contradicts number 1  
robbieballs2003 : 10/27/2016 5:49 am : link
.
RE: Number 3 contradicts number 1  
Neckbone1333 : 10/27/2016 5:55 am : link
In comment 13192656 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
.


I was just thinking the same thing...silly post
Like most people, even though I have  
joeinpa : 10/27/2016 7:00 am : link
A wonderful life, there are daily issues that are difficult and the cause of sadness. When you have a large family, which we do, there are going to be things to deal with.

One of my favorite escapes from the reality of life is the Giants. What I care about is are they going win, because when they do my distraction is more fun.

I m sorry for Josh B and his family, abhor domestic violence. But where the Giants are concerned all I want to care about is whether Robbie Gould makes them better.

Unfortunately today these type of stories take precedent over the reporting of any news.

I don t abuse my wife of 44 years. No one in my family does either. I know it s an issue in society, I will help when I can, but I m sick of going to my sports distraction and it being there
The Giants disgraced themselves by not cutting Brown right away.  
David in Belmont : 10/27/2016 7:27 am : link
Domestic abuse is a nice term for beating up women and, in some instances, children. There's no level that should be tolerated. Brown should have been cut immediately after he admitted it had happened once. Adrian Peterson also should have been thrown out of the league for beating his small son.

Domestic abuse is an epidemic in this country and aggressive steps need to be taken to stop it. Unfortunately, the same violence needed to play football erupts off the field as well.

I'm sorry if it interferes with anyone's watching football as a distraction or diversion but domestic abuse is real and it creates serious problems, often life-long, for those who have been abused.
No need for public shaming, though...which is what has gone on  
yatqb : 10/27/2016 7:43 am : link
in this case. Shame doesn't help anyone to become a better person; if anything felt shame typically plays a role in fostering an abuser's awful behavior. Abusive behavior typically stems from underlying feelings of powerlessness, and shame plays a huge role in that.
RE: The Giants disgraced themselves by not cutting Brown right away.  
UConn4523 : 10/27/2016 7:53 am : link
In comment 13192673 David in Belmont said:
Quote:
Domestic abuse is a nice term for beating up women and, in some instances, children. There's no level that should be tolerated. Brown should have been cut immediately after he admitted it had happened once. Adrian Peterson also should have been thrown out of the league for beating his small son.

Domestic abuse is an epidemic in this country and aggressive steps need to be taken to stop it. Unfortunately, the same violence needed to play football erupts off the field as well.

I'm sorry if it interferes with anyone's watching football as a distraction or diversion but domestic abuse is real and it creates serious problems, often life-long, for those who have been abused.


No, domestic abuse doesn't = beating up women. That certainly is a type of abuse but certainly not the only way. That isn't to excuse Brown or wife beaters, or even the potential of Brown beating his wife, but there's many forms of abuse.

As for the situation itself with the Giants, yeah I wish it was handled differently, but won't pretend to act like it was some slam dunk easy decision. No idea what info is true/false and I have to just hope they will be more cautious moving forward.
I really don't think the organization "disgraced itself"  
Beezer : 10/27/2016 7:59 am : link
by not cutting Brown immediately.

I take it at face value when it's reported that they wanted to try to help the guy, and that they had been sold a bill of good that was much different than he had portrayed, himself, in the recently released documents. Those seemed to provide most damning evidence - a confession by him.

There are always degrees or shades when it comes to this sort of thing. Like with parenting, you have to try to find balance between support, correction and punishment.

Given the way things played out, I'm satisfied with the organization's handling of the situation.

Time to move on from Josh Brown.
The only way..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/27/2016 8:13 am : link
people say the team disgraced itself is if they are looking to post faux outrage.

Isn't one of the maxim's in life to do the right thing? Well, we've already seen numerous cases where social media mobs grab onto a subject and demand action, and it appears even when action is taken it isn't good enough.

I know I go on these rants, but the hypocrisy of outrage is getting worse and worse. It's fine to be outraged at the allegations of what Brown did, but to then call it a disgrace that the team resigned him, but then finally did the right thing just sounds like preening for the board.

We had a local politician who ended up getting a store worker fired by going on social media and posting a picture of the cashier on the phone while she was checking out. Made a huge deal of it and how her bringing attention to it carried out "justice". Well, two months ago this woman's daughter was fired from her own job with reason and the woman went on a huge rant about how unfair it was for hard working folks to be "randomly" sacked.

The point is that many people who only get one side of a story or a partial story have no issue acting as if there isn't speedy retribution, that the whole thing is fucked up. I've yet to be given a reasonable response on why speed matters in these situations. Why does firing a guy yesterday beat firing him today, especially if there is due diligence going on? i bet many of the same people outraged at Josh Brown would also be outraged at a wrongful conviction that happens because of immense pressure placed on a prosecutor to rush to judgment.
RE: The only way..  
Big Blue '56 : 10/27/2016 8:23 am : link
In comment 13192693 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
people say the team disgraced itself is if they are looking to post faux outrage.

Isn't one of the maxim's in life to do the right thing? Well, we've already seen numerous cases where social media mobs grab onto a subject and demand action, and it appears even when action is taken it isn't good enough.

I know I go on these rants, but the hypocrisy of outrage is getting worse and worse. It's fine to be outraged at the allegations of what Brown did, but to then call it a disgrace that the team resigned him, but then finally did the right thing just sounds like preening for the board.

We had a local politician who ended up getting a store worker fired by going on social media and posting a picture of the cashier on the phone while she was checking out. Made a huge deal of it and how her bringing attention to it carried out "justice". Well, two months ago this woman's daughter was fired from her own job with reason and the woman went on a huge rant about how unfair it was for hard working folks to be "randomly" sacked.

The point is that many people who only get one side of a story or a partial story have no issue acting as if there isn't speedy retribution, that the whole thing is fucked up. I've yet to be given a reasonable response on why speed matters in these situations. Why does firing a guy yesterday beat firing him today, especially if there is due diligence going on? i bet many of the same people outraged at Josh Brown would also be outraged at a wrongful conviction that happens because of immense pressure placed on a prosecutor to rush to judgment.


To this day, I loathe that jackass Bloomberg for rushing to justice on Plax's guilt before any due process was even started...We know it was stupid and against the law, but is your place as Mayor to attach guilt before the ink was dry on the charges?
I would largely agree with FMIC  
hassan : 10/27/2016 8:29 am : link
The rush to judgement is ridiculous and our social media culture demands snap judgements and an almost disdain for due diligence.

I think it's outrageous the Giants did resign him IF they knew everything. If they were told about Brown incident at the probowl but they were misled about the extent of these issues (which I think is much closer to the truth) then I see a team that took corrective action once they had more information. And fairly assertively.

Where is the outrage about the fact Hardy played all year last year? Or around AP who has engaged in negligent abusive parenting and is still lauded like a star?
He beat his wife - Fuck him (EOM)  
GiantsRage2007 : 10/27/2016 8:38 am : link
...
RE: The Giants disgraced themselves by not cutting Brown right away.  
Bill L : 10/27/2016 8:44 am : link
In comment 13192673 David in Belmont said:
Quote:
Domestic abuse is a nice term for beating up women and, in some instances, children. There's no level that should be tolerated. Brown should have been cut immediately after he admitted it had happened once. Adrian Peterson also should have been thrown out of the league for beating his small son.

Domestic abuse is an epidemic in this country and aggressive steps need to be taken to stop it. Unfortunately, the same violence needed to play football erupts off the field as well.

I'm sorry if it interferes with anyone's watching football as a distraction or diversion but domestic abuse is real and it creates serious problems, often life-long, for those who have been abused.
Maybe. But should they also have cut Jay Bromley right away? Should the Knicks have released Derrick Rose right away?

The easy thing to do is to take reflexive, non-contemplative action, but that is not always the fairest and wisest way to go.
RE: RE: Number 3 contradicts number 1  
NINEster : 10/27/2016 8:48 am : link
In comment 13192657 Neckbone1333 said:
Quote:
In comment 13192656 robbieballs2003 said:


Quote:


.



I was just thinking the same thing...silly post


Not necessarily.

In the context of a football team, yes. It's a public profession unlike most, especially now versus 20+ years ago.

For a regular job where such distractions are not going to come up, then it's different.

If Josh Brown's kicking was never an issue all this time, then it's like any normal job where coworkers wouldn't have any idea.

You can debate this on moral points, sure. But the OP's points can be valid as he worded them.
I've laid out my opinion...  
Chris in Philly : 10/27/2016 8:56 am : link
too many times to do it again as I have become exhausted. But if you are defending Josh Brown, you suck at life.

If you are blaming his wife, you suck at life.

If you are accusing other fans of faux outrage, you are wrong.

If you think it is a delinquent media that caused this, you are wrong.

If you think the Giants could not have handled this much better, you are wrong.

If you know some guy whose wife trumped up charges against him, it is irrelevant to this conversation.

If you did not take the time to read the reporting and educate yourself, you lose the right to comment.

Whatever.
In the case of #1 and #3 - they're both business decisions.  
jcn56 : 10/27/2016 8:57 am : link
The team isn't trying to punish Brown by releasing him, or to teach him a lesson not to repeat his behavior. In either case, the reason teams react in that way is to maintain public appearances in a very visible entertainment business. If the Giants were accountants instead, and Brown was one of their top performers, would they necessarily be quick to release him?

Based on the fact that the Giants knew Brown's behavior at the Pro Bowl, retaining him was stupid on many levels. The potential distraction to the team, a possible suspension, or worse. There's no way to spin it for them and have them come out looking good, it was a dumb decision. Even from the standpoint of 'standing by their players' - this is a guy who had problems and kept repeating his behavior. If you cut Will Hill because of his inability to curb repeat offenses, you cut Josh Brown for the same reason.
A piece of GARBAGE  
djstat : 10/27/2016 9:07 am : link
like Brown deserves no respect and no courtesy from his employer. Glad he was cut. Disgusted the Giants brought him back to begin with...you hit a woman there is no place for you in this entertainment world.
Bill L(31)  
Big Blue '56 : 10/27/2016 9:08 am : link
Quote:


The easy thing to do is to take reflexive, non-contemplative action, but that is not always the fairest and wisest way to go.



Umm, you have seen the game threads, yes?

😜
CiP  
hassan : 10/27/2016 9:10 am : link
I would largely agree with everything you said. Defending Brown is disgraceful. I would only quibble about the idea the Giants knew the context and severity and were very likely misled by Brown, but even then it was not a good idea for them to sign him with the information they already had.

But what I find troubling is the selective outrage. Brown must go. Id wholeheartedly agree with that. But why is AP, who has beaten his children, and is a downright negligent parent in many other instances, being held up as some star of the league?

WTF are you guys talking about  
David in Belmont : 10/27/2016 9:12 am : link
Before he was suspended for 1 game, the Giants knew he had admitted he had hit his wife. Maybe they didn't know the extent of the beatings or that, at least once, he beat her when she was pregnant. There should be zero tolerance for that type of action.

Go read the comments from Eli Apple's Mom about the emotional pain felt by abusees for years if not longer. Or go ask women like your wives, girlfriends, mothers, or sisters if a one game suspension was enough for some guy who hit a woman who was undoubtedly smaller than he.

Derrick Rose denied the rape charge and was entitled to the presumption of innocence before the trial. Brown had admitted he was an abuser. Big difference. And if Rose had been convicted, I would have argued for a lifetime ban.

An excellent, but extremely heavy, book about sexual and physical abuse by athletes is "MIssoula" by Jon Krakauer

I also do not not think  
Gman11 : 10/27/2016 12:49 pm : link
that a person should lose his job because of something that happens unrelated to his employment - except in this case.

The NFL is concerned about its image. They don't really give a hoot about the victim. It's their image that is at stake. That's why there is a personal conduct clause. Players know that they can be terminated for giving the league a black eye. If they violate that, then they suffer the consequences. So, Josh, have a nice career at the local grocery store.
I don't care for Brown....  
Britt in VA : 10/27/2016 12:54 pm : link
but the social media outrage in this country is becoming parody at this point.

Posters online are like cyber politicians.
CIP couldn't have said it better  
jjgmrg901 : 10/27/2016 1:05 pm : link
There is no place for wife beaters or child abusers. Brown should be ashamed of himself on so many levels but at least he says he is finally getting help.
RE: RE: The Giants disgraced themselves by not cutting Brown right away.  
David in LA : 10/27/2016 1:13 pm : link
In comment 13192714 Bill L said:
Quote:
In comment 13192673 David in Belmont said:


Quote:


Domestic abuse is a nice term for beating up women and, in some instances, children. There's no level that should be tolerated. Brown should have been cut immediately after he admitted it had happened once. Adrian Peterson also should have been thrown out of the league for beating his small son.

Domestic abuse is an epidemic in this country and aggressive steps need to be taken to stop it. Unfortunately, the same violence needed to play football erupts off the field as well.

I'm sorry if it interferes with anyone's watching football as a distraction or diversion but domestic abuse is real and it creates serious problems, often life-long, for those who have been abused.

Maybe. But should they also have cut Jay Bromley right away? Should the Knicks have released Derrick Rose right away?

The easy thing to do is to take reflexive, non-contemplative action, but that is not always the fairest and wisest way to go.


That's not even an apples to apples comparison. Brown has a laundry list of incidents, and Mara made it sound like they knew what was going on with him. Bromley's not a repeat offender, and put himself in a bad position. That incident was refuted immediately with tangible evidence that flew against the accuser's story. As shitty as it sounds, not worth the PR backlash over a kicker. They could have released him, and picked him up once enough evidence came in to get Brown off the hook.
What did I miss when I wrote that it would have been better for Brown  
Reese's Pieces : 10/27/2016 4:42 pm : link
and everyone if the prosecutor had tried him on two counts of 4th Degree Domestic Abuse as the investigating detective had recommended. Under that degree, a misdemeanor, he would have been charged with spousal abuse but without a claim that he had handled her with violence or had injured her.

With both husband and wife in court under oath and examined by competent attorneys, the story would have come out and we wouldn't be guessing what Brown did.

Sometimes the wife doesn't want to cooperate with the prosecution due to fear or anxiety, so the husband can't be tried. That's considered to be a fair reason to excuse the wife from testifying in court. But she had to answer the questions of the investigating detective and in his judgment Brown had not gotten violent and had not hurt her.

So did I miss something, like Brown, or something he wrote, admitted that he had hit her? Or the wife said that he had been violent and beat her?

My main problem is just that, as most of us have been around a while know, that being tried in the court of public opinion instead of a court of law has caused great injustices.
RE: What did I miss when I wrote that it would have been better for Brown  
Chris in Philly : 10/27/2016 4:54 pm : link
In comment 13193602 Reese's Pieces said:
Quote:
and everyone if the prosecutor had tried him on two counts of 4th Degree Domestic Abuse as the investigating detective had recommended. Under that degree, a misdemeanor, he would have been charged with spousal abuse but without a claim that he had handled her with violence or had injured her.

With both husband and wife in court under oath and examined by competent attorneys, the story would have come out and we wouldn't be guessing what Brown did.

Sometimes the wife doesn't want to cooperate with the prosecution due to fear or anxiety, so the husband can't be tried. That's considered to be a fair reason to excuse the wife from testifying in court. But she had to answer the questions of the investigating detective and in his judgment Brown had not gotten violent and had not hurt her.

So did I miss something, like Brown, or something he wrote, admitted that he had hit her? Or the wife said that he had been violent and beat her?

My main problem is just that, as most of us have been around a while know, that being tried in the court of public opinion instead of a court of law has caused great injustices.


Yes, you missed things.
I don't have opinions on the subject worth sharing,  
Mad Mike : 10/27/2016 5:21 pm : link
but I'm just glad there's a thread to discuss it. BBI had really given short shrift to the story previously.
RE: Like most people, even though I have  
jpennyva : 10/28/2016 8:25 am : link
In comment 13192668 joeinpa said:
Quote:
A wonderful life, there are daily issues that are difficult and the cause of sadness. When you have a large family, which we do, there are going to be things to deal with.

One of my favorite escapes from the reality of life is the Giants. What I care about is are they going win, because when they do my distraction is more fun.

I m sorry for Josh B and his family, abhor domestic violence. But where the Giants are concerned all I want to care about is whether Robbie Gould makes them better.

Unfortunately today these type of stories take precedent over the reporting of any news.

I don t abuse my wife of 44 years. No one in my family does either. I know it s an issue in society, I will help when I can, but I m sick of going to my sports distraction and it being there


Very well said.
Lying Gets You Fired  
jpennyva : 10/28/2016 8:32 am : link
I've posted this previously - either the Giants absolutely knew the extent of Brown's DA and were OK with it and re-signed him anyway or Brown LIED. Lying to your bosses is a completely acceptable reason to fire someone if people want to believe that the front office didn't know the extent. If they did, shame on them. Neither situation is acceptable in my view. All else is just noise.
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