I saw on the Bruins vs. Rangers thread there were some suggesting trades of possibly Miller, or Hayes, Nash and Skjei or however the fuck you spell his name for Trouba or some frontline defender,
Why? Miller is a catalyst and while he could have ten fucking goals this year already with all the point blank shots he has been stoned on, you have to think they will start to find the back of the net, the guy makes things happen.
Hayes after losing 20 pounds is all over the ice and making the kind of hustle plays that wins you a lot of games. Did you not see the beauty he banked in of the back of Mcintyer last night. That was thee ultimate hustle play. It started at one end and he finished it at he other. And that bank shot was no accident either. Talk about a heady play.
As for Skjei, do you not see the way this kid skates and movers the puck and the pinpoint passes he delivers. Plus he has played some very very solid defense. We've heard about this kid for two years before he started to emerge last year and now you want to trade him???
As for Nash he looks to be zeroing in on that net and has played great defense and especially well on the penalty kill. Everyone is contributing and the chemistry is clicking. Even Zuccarellos name came up. What the fuck are people thinking. Watch these guys play. Truth is if for not two ridiculously hot goal tending nights the Rangers would be 7-0.
They are finding the back of the net more often then not and people want to start trading major assets playing major minutes and just plain getting it done. That's just flat out shortsighted stupid thinking. You know what they say. If it ain't broke don't fix it . So far it ain't broke. Far from it.
And I do think there was merit to it and still is to some extent.
While fighting isn't the only angle to it, the theory is you can dish out a reckless hit on player and the refs will give you a penalty and or the league will fine you but you will have to answer for your actions, not your goon, you depending on who you hit. Most of the time the reaction is immediate, on the ice at that time, not planned anymore like it used to be.
But every now and then you get a glimpse of the past with a line fight or dropping of the gloves at the face-off.
that's at least the way it used to be and to some extent it still is even if the scrums have become rugby scrums as much as two guys squaring off.
What's amazing is the # of hockey players now who still have their real teeth - no shit, no exaggeration, that number used to be much lower.
I am not a proponent of senseless fighting in hockey and I think it's becoming more and more rare, but i do support the notion that should it warrant it two players can drop the gloves with no more consequence than a 5 for fighting (or an instigator/3rd man in, etc.).
But like I said in my prior post, I wouldn't worry about having a typical drop the gloves fighter on my team, I'd be more concerned with physicality than fighting. Almost no hockey player will refuse to drop their gloves in the situation warrants it. You just don't want certain players doing it because a) they risk injury and b) having them off the ice hurts you more than others.
I agree with you - it used to just be the case that a lot of good hockey players were also ornery bastards who'd fight. Two of the greatest in the history of the game were Rocket Richard and Gordie Howe, both of them famously pugilistic. Even in the famously vicious '70s, most of the noted tough guys of the era weren't complete goons. Dave Schultz had a 20 goal season once. Guys like Terry O'Reilly, Willi Plett, and Tiger Williams had several 20 and even a few 30 goal seasons. It really wasn't until the '80s that you started seeing guys who never would have sniffed an NHL rink without fighting, the John Kordic/Basil McRae types.
I guess we're all wrong on McIlraith... a lot of teams out there have absolutely no defense depth, yet no one is taking a flier on a cheap contract approaching free agency.
I guess we're all wrong on McIlraith... a lot of teams out there have absolutely no defense depth, yet no one is taking a flier on a cheap contract approaching free agency.
Not sure we're wrong. A lot of us would play him over guys we thing are not playing up to the level of NHL #6 dmen.
Look, I take AV at his word -- McIlrath is not making the right decisions with the puck. That's a big deal. I also think his small space skating is not great. He's fine getting up and down the ice, but not all that mobile in zone.
Barring some major injuries, he wont hit 42 games, and therefore will be a Group IV UFA (or so I read).
Good to see them depart from the injury dictating the sentence for a change.
The need for some nasty and protection is still there, but the lineups in todays NHL can't have a goon only option out there. especially on D.
McIlrath is not just goon, he's got skills but he does get himself in trouble by goin full policeman on the ice. He does need to learn to pick his battles better.
McIlrath isn't a goon at all. Why people keep perceiving him as a goon is beyond me. He can't skate very well and is a very, very stay at home defenseman b/c he can't skate well. Goons take cheap shots, goons can destroy opponents in the fighting department. McIrath is neither. He doesn't take cheap shots on the ice and even the blind can see he isn't a very good fighter. He's off balance, unsteady and isn't a given to dominate any fights.
We were all hoping for a Kenny Daneyko with wild dreams of him being a Scott Stevens to clear out the front of the net or force opponents to skate with their heads up. Dylan can't skate well but he's far from a goon. He's not a Troy Crowder or Stu Grimson type. Those are goons.
If you think he's a good fighter, you haven't watched real hockey fighters fight. I've loved the kid since he was drafted and watched every fight through the minors. He's off balance and is a coin flip if he wins a fight or not. Take the home blinders off.
Oh stop, he lost several fights in the minors where there are better fighters. Again, it's his skating. There are few goons in the NHL now and his competition isn't even tough in practically every incident. Put the real heavy weights out there and look at their balance, etc. Dylan has poor balance in both fights and his COD on skates. The real goons would knock him out with his lack of balance.
Stevens is in the hall of fame. Sure he is renowned for laying vicious hits and ending careers, but he was an insanely good skater and an underrated (I guess) supremely talented offensive presence.
He is one of the best two-way defenseman ever. ever.
and McIlrath can fight fine, do to hockeyfights.com and look him up, he wins most of his fights, he went toe to toe with Wayne Simmonds last spring I remember and Simmonds is a scrapper.
Stevens is in the hall of fame. Sure he is renowned for laying vicious hits and ending careers, but he was an insanely good skater and an underrated (I guess) supremely talented offensive presence.
He is one of the best two-way defenseman ever. ever.
and McIlrath can fight fine, do to hockeyfights.com and look him up, he wins most of his fights, he went toe to toe with Wayne Simmonds last spring I remember and Simmonds is a scrapper.
SO you completely bypass Ken Daneyko which I led with. Awesome as usual.
If you needed a goon would you take Wayne Simmons? How would Wayne Simmons do against a smurf like Tie Domi? Think Dave Brown was a bit tougher than Wayne Simmons? Kocur, Probert, Semenko, McSorley, Grimmson, etc. Those are fighers. Those guys have balance and destroy others. Dylan fights, but he's no real heavy weight. He's just tall and hopes a haymaker connects while his head his often turned turned to the side and his skates are failing him.
Soon I just want to see this line: Miller, Zibadinnerplate and Kreideer. That line will simply be way too much for 95% of the lines out there. Pirri has been superb as well.
In games 1 and 2 Kevn Hayes was atrocious. Then he watched these guys and since then he has been a totally improved player. Look at his shots, faceoffs, etc. His last game was excellent Best in a while. And Nash has had 2 in a row now.
Which is exactly what I said
Giants2012 : 1:27 pm : link : reply
In comment 13194571 Greg from LI said:
There are few goons in the NHL now and his competition isn't even tough in practically every incident
Deej and others answered the question from B in Alb right, there are very few pure goons in the NHL anymore. Teams roll 4 lines out regularly these days which wasn't always the case and 6 D.
You can only have 18 skaters dressed.
However that doesn't mean there aren't players who can fight.
Could Wayne Simmonds square off with Derek Boogard? John Scott in his youth or most any of the fighters you mentioned? Unlikely, but in the NHL today pound for pound not many tougher men than Wayne Simmonds.
McIlrath can hold his own with Simmonds and most anyone in the NHL today in a hockey fight.
McIlrath can hold his own with Simmonds and most anyone in the NHL today in a hockey fight.
Which isn't saying much considering the competition. The shame of it is, and I've said it for years b/c I watched him live in Hartford, he's the physical presence this team needs on the backend yet he just has to overcompensate for his poor skating by staying way back in his end. If loses a step, the player can go right by him. At the NHL level, he just doesn't appear to have the wheels. The very mention of "goon" though, no way. He's no cheap chop fella who seeks out others to knock out.
Saying that he can't fight because the pure goons of the '80s would have beaten him is kind of immaterial when talking about how good a fighter he is in the current league, no?
Quote:
McIlrath can hold his own with Simmonds and most anyone in the NHL today in a hockey fight.
Which isn't saying much considering the competition. The shame of it is, and I've said it for years b/c I watched him live in Hartford, he's the physical presence this team needs on the backend yet he just has to overcompensate for his poor skating by staying way back in his end. If loses a step, the player can go right by him. At the NHL level, he just doesn't appear to have the wheels. The very mention of "goon" though, no way. He's no cheap chop fella who seeks out others to knock out.
I didn't use goon, but whatever, maybe someone did. and Even if being able to hold his own with anyone in the league today doesn't say much, it is what it is, when no one has a grim reaper anymore who cares if the guy you have can't hang with the grim reaper?
As far as Beuk, maybe McIlrath could have been him. In the fighting dept, Beuk wasn't too hot either. More balance though
Sean Day 7 games, 4 Goals 2 assists 6 points
He's playing, according to all indications
He's playing, according to all indications
Thanks
Actually, NYR only have 12 forwards, so Fast must be out there just to shoot at Raanta w/Clendening
What your takeaway should be is that Holden, despite another terrible game on Wednesday, is still playing over Clendening. Not sure how Holden got into the AV Circle of Trust so quickly.
So tired of this kind of nonsense. Holden literally has no strong points to his game. Hell, even Vigneault couldn't muster up better praise than "he gets in the way out there" in that NYP puff piece.
Soon I just want to see this line: Miller, Zibadinnerplate and Kreideer. That line will simply be way too much for 95% of the lines out there. Pirri has been superb as well.
In games 1 and 2 Kevn Hayes was atrocious. Then he watched these guys and since then he has been a totally improved player. Look at his shots, faceoffs, etc. His last game was excellent Best in a while. And Nash has had 2 in a row now.
I think Mika and Kreider need more of a set up man than Miller. That's why AV has put Zucc and Buch with them so far.
There is
I mean nobody seems to have loyalty to players or coaches. From reading this thread and other comments, everybody is just a "widget" you plug in. So I like my idea better than the random trades. This way you get to cheer for 5 groups of strangers during every season - and call them "your team".
What a fucked up world this has become.
2. Two weeks before the season, there is a draft, in reverse order of how "cities" finished the prior season. Coaches and players are all part of the draft.
3. Every coach makes the same salary. Likewise every player makes the same salary.
4. There is a new "draft" every 20 games.
5. There is a final "draft" before the playoffs.
6. Any coach or player not "drafted" in a draft isn't paid that 20 games (or playoffs). Players or coaches are free to put their names into the "draft" for as long as they like. However, they only get paid if they get drafted (and then by the NHL).
7. The playoffs are the same format as now - but instead of "teams" they are known as "cities". Each city makes it by the points accrued during the season.
There you go. A new league where every fan has every player and coach available. No team loyalty necessary. Indeed the concept of team doesn't exist - just "cities" (not far from the way many "fans" approach hockey right now anyway).
His Dad was my fuckin man in NHL 93. Ronning!
That team was ridiculous. Ronning, Bure, Linden (who was completely awesome!), Nedved and Cournall were unstoppable.