I'm stirring up a bees nest, but...
Coughlin's offense was built around throwing the ball deep, and moving guys around to create mismatches. McAdoo's offense thus far appears to be just lining up in the same formation and throwing short passes under 10 yards. Under Coughlin, for years we led the league in passes and completions over 15-20 yards.
One has to wonder how much of Coughlin's offense last year was responsible for the offensive success? The personnel is actually better this year than last.
How much of Coughlin's offense was still installed last year in addition to McAdoo's, maybe a hybrid of sorts? Coughlin's philosophy was always to take shots downfield, something that has seemingly all but disappeared since his dismissal. Beckham also lined up in the slot a lot more to create mismatches.
Might eventually have to chalk this one up in the "grass isn't always greener" category. I know that won't be popular, and will bring out the fangs of the Fire Coughlin crowd, but if you're being honest with yourself, what else can you attribute it to?
Last year's offense with this year's defense would be playoff bound.
To answer your question, YES, it is McAdoo's responsibility to reel OBJ in, just like it was Coughlin's to sit OBJ down and let him cool off, rather than let things escalate on the field. My logic on that topic is consistent for both coaches, so this isn't me picking on Coughlin because I decided to be mean.
One thing Coughlin did better was speak to the media about him in a way that he didn't give them a story to run with. McAdoo slipped up and said it was a distraction, and OBJ's antics became a much bigger story than it should have been.
The bottom line is that the offense if infinitely worse, I'd argue unrecognizable, from what we've seen the previous two years.
It's a valid argument to say that Tom Coughlin and his take shots down the filed philosophy is missing from the current incarnation.
If you've got an alternate explanation, let's discuss it.
Where is the offense that gets that guy involved?
The bottom line is that the offense if infinitely worse, I'd argue unrecognizable, from what we've seen the previous two years.
It's a valid argument to say that Tom Coughlin and his take shots down the filed philosophy is missing from the current incarnation.
If you've got an alternate explanation, let's discuss it.
YOu talk about deflections, it seems like that's what you do whenever it comes to TC and what he's responsible for.
I disagree that it's the take shots down the field philosophy that's missing. We have been taking shots down field, we've been missing them when opportunities become available, and teams are playing us with 2 safeties deep. Eli has overthrown his WR's deep on a few occasions. This offense could use more diversity in formations, and desperately needs a running game. Some of the issues we have now are the same issues we have had with Coughlin. Again, you seem to brush aside the fact that this is a rookie HC. He might be in over his head. Maybe he's building the offense from ground up, and gradually installing new facets to it. We'll see what happens after the bye. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that we see some new wrinkles in the offense.
I've pretty much stuck to the difference in the offense when Coughlin was here, until now. Unless I was responding to another poster's point about one of the above things I mentioned.
So I have not tried to deflect anything on this thread.
Where is the offense that gets that guy involved?
OBJ tied for 4th in targets. He's actually averaging more ypc than he ever has. He's on a similar pace to his other two years across the board (with the exception of TD's). Eli has overthrown him, or didn't look his way when he was WIDE open, and that's why his TD's are off pace right now.
Where is the offense that gets that guy involved?
Wasn't that McAdoo's offense basically? Wasn't that before anyone, including TC, knew Beckham was as good as he is? OBJ is still on pace for those same numbers . . .
So let's just agree to disagree on this one. This has been a fairly civil discussion up to this point.
Quote:
had the best rookie career beginning of any wide receiver in history.
Where is the offense that gets that guy involved?
Wasn't that McAdoo's offense basically? Wasn't that before anyone, including TC, knew Beckham was as good as he is? OBJ is still on pace for those same numbers . . .
Was it? That's the question I asked in the OP. And if it was, where is that offense, now?
Quote:
In comment 13194642 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
had the best rookie career beginning of any wide receiver in history.
Where is the offense that gets that guy involved?
Wasn't that McAdoo's offense basically? Wasn't that before anyone, including TC, knew Beckham was as good as he is? OBJ is still on pace for those same numbers . . .
Was it? That's the question I asked in the OP. And if it was, where is that offense, now?
McAdoo was hired as the new OC and he got a shiny new toy in the first round in Odell. Ask Eli why he isn't throwing the ball down the field, it would be hard for me to believe McAdoo is telling Eli keep it under 15 yards.
96% - ( New Window )
Eli is #11 in passing plays over 20 yards, and #6 in passing plays over 40 yards. I think this is a case of perception not quite meeting reality.
I've watched the video. It's concerning, and I think McAdoo might be doing this to make up for a lack of personnel, and that he's building this offense from the ground up. Again, you seem to be brushing past my points that speaks on the topics, and focus on defending yourself with my returning your deflection accusation.
Quote:
We definitely are not taking the same amount of "shots" this year.. whether that is McAdoo's fault, Eli's fault, or the O-line's fault is up for debate. Eli has elevated his teammates play since he stepped in but he hasn't seemed to have that same "magic" this year.
Eli is #11 in passing plays over 20 yards, and #6 in passing plays over 40 yards. I think this is a case of perception not quite meeting reality.
I don't understand those numbers..?
So let's just agree to disagree on this one. This has been a fairly civil discussion up to this point.
So this thread devolves if someone disagrees with your opinion? Seems like any point I make to show you a different perspective ends up with you dismissing it completely, and continuing on in your bubble where Coughlin was this perfect coach during his last few seasons here.
Quote:
If we continue this is going to devolve like pretty much every other thread that you come on and we get into this, does.
So let's just agree to disagree on this one. This has been a fairly civil discussion up to this point.
So this thread devolves if someone disagrees with your opinion? Seems like any point I make to show you a different perspective ends up with you dismissing it completely, and continuing on in your bubble where Coughlin was this perfect coach during his last few seasons here.
Not not someone, just you. Respectfully, of course. You are a difficult person to converse with on this board.
Coming in, off topic, deflecting, using other people words... All that stuff.
Let's just save ourselves the trouble this time.
Yup, tanked. Sorry about that.
I'm hoping for the best with McAdoo. I actually like him and think he can be a good coach in this league. Not sure if he'll ever take the next step to being a 'great' coach, though. Guess we'll see..
"Eli Manning currently ranks 13th in the NFL with a mark of 7.35 yards per pass attempt. This number will continue to take a dive until that O-Line can effectively run block against a light box and force defenses to adjust accordingly."
The Reason Why NYG Offense doesn't attack downfield - ( New Window )
"Eli Manning currently ranks 13th in the NFL with a mark of 7.35 yards per pass attempt. This number will continue to take a dive until that O-Line can effectively run block against a light box and force defenses to adjust accordingly."
The Reason Why NYG Offense doesn't attack downfield - ( New Window )
Did you watch that thing I posted for you above?
It's not like the pass protection has changed that much from last year to this year.
It's the line stupid.
It's the line stupid.
I agree, it's the line and always has been, going back to Gilbride.
What I can't comprehend is why the offense looks so different this year, with the same line as last year.
Quote:
quote from the article
"Eli Manning currently ranks 13th in the NFL with a mark of 7.35 yards per pass attempt. This number will continue to take a dive until that O-Line can effectively run block against a light box and force defenses to adjust accordingly."
The Reason Why NYG Offense doesn't attack downfield - ( New Window )
Did you watch that thing I posted for you above?
It's not like the pass protection has changed that much from last year to this year.
No I didn't because im at work and don't have headphones but I made a note to myself to check it out at home.
Everyone got so caught up in the "simplification" hoopla with Gilbride because Reuben Randal and Jerrell Jernigan weren't performing. Just think about that for a second.
We are running some high school level basic offense right now. Watch it, you'll be stunned.
Quote:
why skill positions don't accumulate fantasy points.
It's the line stupid.
I agree, it's the line and always has been, going back to Gilbride.
What I can't comprehend is why the offense looks so different this year, with the same line as last year.
It should be better this year but IDK I can't explain it.
Quote:
why skill positions don't accumulate fantasy points.
It's the line stupid.
I agree, it's the line and always has been, going back to Gilbride.
What I can't comprehend is why the offense looks so different this year, with the same line as last year.
New OL coach. Some people will look like they're taking a step back while learning new technique. The OL play has been up and down, but IMO the larger issue is that we don't have talent in the backfield to get the safeties to creep up.
Also the line being an issue since Gilbride, we failed to move on from declining players, who have been stalwarts for a long time. We know Coughlin is loyal to a fault, especially when it comes to his staff, it's not a stretch to think he went to bat to keep Snee, Diehl, and O'Hara on the field longer than they should have. IMO the lack of development of prospects has to do with being unable to adapt to the new CBA, especially for such an old school coach. We're all creatures of habit.
Britt's an emotional poster. For said types, big picture can be challenging. Preferable to vent, complete with ALL CAPS, in game thread fashion (not even on the game thread) midway through a loss to a 13-0 juggernaut team on a roll.
Onto this season: ignoring the fact that the Giants are 4-3, this bizarre need to long for Coughlin (who, recall, no other team with a vacancy wanted) would do well to keep in mind his own shitty first season. Parcells' too. Does that mean Ben M is the long-term answer? No. But he will almost certainly be the HC for at least several years and should be afforded some time to make the team his own. I wonder if next season might see a new OC calling plays so McAdoo can concentrate on the overall game.
The next game will be mildly illustrative (although should be kept in context). Coughlin was 9-17 vs Philadelphia, including two playoff losses and 2 humiliating losses in key games each of the past 2 seasons. It would be nice to reverse the trend.
Quote:
why skill positions don't accumulate fantasy points.
It's the line stupid.
I agree, it's the line and always has been, going back to Gilbride.
What I can't comprehend is why the offense looks so different this year, with the same line as last year.
From a simplistic level... really it points to coaching.
The OL is the same personnel. RBs are for the most part the same. TEs basically the same, although they became a problem (well more of a problem) after Pope left 2 years ago. Whitlock is gone.
TC gone
Flaherty gone replaced by Solari
Pope Gone (2 years now) replaced by Gilbride jr.
MacAdoo no longer solely focused on offense
Mike Sullivan OC
Regardless... I really hope these guys are able to pull it together. I'm a TC guy for sure, but it doesn't mean I don't want the new regime to succeed. Pretty sure we all do.
Quote:
In comment 13194733 Giants2012 said:
Quote:
why skill positions don't accumulate fantasy points.
It's the line stupid.
I agree, it's the line and always has been, going back to Gilbride.
What I can't comprehend is why the offense looks so different this year, with the same line as last year.
From a simplistic level... really it points to coaching.
The OL is the same personnel. RBs are for the most part the same. TEs basically the same, although they became a problem (well more of a problem) after Pope left 2 years ago. Whitlock is gone.
TC gone
Flaherty gone replaced by Solari
Pope Gone (2 years now) replaced by Gilbride jr.
MacAdoo no longer solely focused on offense
Mike Sullivan OC
Regardless... I really hope these guys are able to pull it together. I'm a TC guy for sure, but it doesn't mean I don't want the new regime to succeed. Pretty sure we all do.
We definitely do.
2013 New York Giants Points For: 28th in the NFL
2014 New York Giants Points For: 13th in the NFL
2014 New York Giants Points For: 6th in the NFL
Noticing a trend?
2016 New York Giants Points For: 25th in the NFL through 7 games.
Did you noticed the improvement happened when McAdoo took over as the OC.
Quote:
to the topic....
2013 New York Giants Points For: 28th in the NFL
2014 New York Giants Points For: 13th in the NFL
2014 New York Giants Points For: 6th in the NFL
Noticing a trend?
2016 New York Giants Points For: 25th in the NFL through 7 games.
Did you noticed the improvement happened when McAdoo took over as the OC.
Yes, I thought I did, until this year. If that was solely McAdoo's offense, then where is that offense this year? Hence the thread. Welcome to 9:58 AM.
Britt's an emotional poster. For said types, big picture can be challenging. Preferable to vent, complete with ALL CAPS, in game thread fashion (not even on the game thread) midway through a loss to a 13-0 juggernaut team on a roll.
Onto this season: ignoring the fact that the Giants are 4-3, this bizarre need to long for Coughlin (who, recall, no other team with a vacancy wanted) would do well to keep in mind his own shitty first season. Parcells' too. Does that mean Ben M is the long-term answer? No. But he will almost certainly be the HC for at least several years and should be afforded some time to make the team his own. I wonder if next season might see a new OC calling plays so McAdoo can concentrate on the overall game.
The next game will be mildly illustrative (although should be kept in context). Coughlin was 9-17 vs Philadelphia, including two playoff losses and 2 humiliating losses in key games each of the past 2 seasons. It would be nice to reverse the trend.
BRAVO Great Post.
We're going off on ridiculous tangents like shouting for 4WR sets and different formations to 'confuse' the defense, like that has ever been a thing.
It doesn't matter how many WRs you put on the field, or where you put them if the QB doesn't believe in the line in front of him.
Tom Coughlin offense WANTED a power running game..who doesn't?
Don't you think every coach would love a power running game with a deep passing game?
We haven't been able to run the ball in years. The running game didn't disappear when Coughlin left.
Tom Coughlin didn't invent the forward pass.
Wonder what McAdoo would say to that. To be fair not a single word/mention of the Giants O-line in the entire video. From what I've seen so far, you can't argue that the O-line play 'maybe' the cause for such quick routes being run/called. I'm not the only one waiting for this offense to open up. No running attack is really killing us too, not to mention pitiful turnovers.
Quote:
Tom Coughlin offense had a power running game and the Ben McAdoo offense does not.
Tom Coughlin offense WANTED a power running game..who doesn't?
Don't you think every coach would love a power running game with a deep passing game?
We haven't been able to run the ball in years. The running game didn't disappear when Coughlin left.
Tom Coughlin didn't invent the forward pass.
You are confusing a power running game with the results of the running game. There is no fullback on the roster or a blocking TE or big short yardage back. We had two of those things last year and none of them this year.