Heres to hoping Mac finds a way to spice things up in the running game by using Beatty as the 6th OL. Because right now, this team is passing to open up the run. Thats fine, but not having ANY run game is going to hurt us going forward.
FWIW, I am really REALLY nervous about this game with Cincy. They match up pretty well against us with their front 7. Hope Im wrong and we come out on top.
Know the team we root got better than the talking heads that evaluating them for a living. This article did reveal things we did already know.
Problem is, the article made it clear why the Giants continually have problems running the ball and there seems to be no answer. Another area of concern would be that it becomes in increasingly evident that Flowers might never be a strength at left tackle
Article is very fair as to the negatives and positives
by the non-trolls..With the exception of his take on Flowers (who appears to be improving more than given credit for), not much to see here. Imho
Bruce, I don't think we talk enough about how poor Jennings has been running the ball. He's running straight up with little elusiveness in the hole and then when he does get room, not finishing his carries.
I'm about 1/4 of the way through the article and I've lost my place three times due to the screen jumping around for pop-up ads and videos and other content they deem necessary to distract me from reading the fucking article. Just wanted to throw that out there as a complaint and a personal time-filler so that when I click back in, maybe things have settled the hell down. Annoying.
Get a load of this... Video of Flowers w/ horrible footwork - ( New Window )
Nice video post by RT. But, that play also is designed for Will Tye to block Brandon Graham. I mean, yeah, Flowers feet are all wrong there and he looks kind of like he's playing on roller skates, but who's drawing up a play where Will Tye is blocking Brandon Graham? Its just all wrong.
It broke it down very simply. If we had any sort of OL, we'd be a stronger team. Everyone knew that in the offseason. The question remains...why wasn't it addressed?
It showed that NEITHER Tye NOR Flowers THOUGHT THEY were supposed to block Graham. Tye didn't "wiff on a block" -- he turned around and ran the other way (to block elsewhere, presumably). And Flowers went to the DT. Yes, he looked shitty doing it, but this play blew up because NO ONE blocked Graham i.e. MENTAL ERRORS and MISSED ASSIGNMENTS.
have been pointing out the schematic flaws in the run game for years.
You just cannot expect this type of run game to work in the NFL. I remember Shaun O'Hara pointing out at the beginning of the season, schematically, we leave the S's unblocked in the run game and here we see it again.
I do get it - McAdoo centers his entire attack around that play and runs into a brick wall simply to keep the D honest and hope for a 4 yard gain. And it could conceivably work - Odell's 1st TD last week was off a playaction of that play that left the middle wide open. But it's ultimately boring, ugly football to watch, and it will lead to a poor running game where your RBs get the sh#t beat out of them.
I personally just don't care for this offensive system, not afraid to say that....different strokes...
why I've also maintained Flowers best position within this scheme would be LG or RG. Let him "maul" inside when you call that stupid running play and have 2 pass blocking OTs.
Get a load of this... Video of Flowers w/ horrible footwork - ( New Window )
Holy CRAP. They are singing Grahams praises on that play but he is COMPLETELY unblocked. This more than anything else seems to be the biggest problem. It looks clear to me that Tye is pulling to get out in front of Jennings. Based on Flowers half-assed attempt to block the tackle Beau Allen, and then realizing Graham is unblocked I have to put that ALL on Flowers. Geezus Christ... is Beatty healthy yet?
RE: RE: Nothing that hasn't been discussed here over and over again
by the non-trolls..With the exception of his take on Flowers (who appears to be improving more than given credit for), not much to see here. Imho
Bruce, I don't think we talk enough about how poor Jennings has been running the ball. He's running straight up with little elusiveness in the hole and then when he does get room, not finishing his carries.
I've been saying for a while that Jennings's only value to this team is in the pass game, more accurately in pass protection.
He just doesn't have the juice in his legs to play the way he tries to. He was never known as some physical contact-seeker, but he is big. He will try to make guys miss and settle for a loss or no-gain instead of lowering his shoulder and taking a positive play (see the failed 3rd and 1 conversion against eagles where he should have ran over Watkins).
He tries to dance and be patient behind the line a la Arian Foster or Leveon Bell, but unfortunately he has cement in his shoes and no burst to get through the line when a hole opens up.
Dependable bass blocker and can pick up yardage if he has huge hole or catches ball with nobody within 5 yards. There were a few run and pass plays last week where Perkins would have picked up 2x yardage as Jennings.
Hopefully coaches continue to work Perk in more. I'm still baffled by Darkwa's total absence in run game. Anyone have any info on that?
a given bad play by Flowers . I think he is improving
overall and the key holding penalty was utter nonsense .
Tyrone Smith does that repeatedly and never gets a flag
for tossing a player to the ground . He is a man child
we get that but again it's the Refs that have different
views on holding calls but that one infuriated me.
It shows that great players to many times in all sports
get the edge and don't get called for penalties when
it's quite obvious .
That's also the play with OBJ running 15 yards behind Eli?
I think you're right that Tye is pulling on that play and Flowers misunderstands his assignment is to block Graham. The play looks like it might actually have worked if Flowers just cuts Graham at the LOS.
The LB Bradham was also COMPLETELY unblocked. Even if Flowers didn't have that epic fail, without Barry Sanders in his prime that play STILL goes NOWHERE. Tye pulls but decides he needs to join Brett Jones in blocking the (already blocked) DE Curry.
WOW. This team just seems to really not know how to run the ball... AT ALL. Every running play we see seems to have these multiple breakdowns. Disturbing.
i agree RE: Jennings. The thing about Jennings is he was never a feature back-ideally he's a #2 which he's been his entire career until we picked him up. that's his talent level
unfortunately as the article points out, when you run 3 WR sets it's imperative to have a good blocking RB especially when you try to scheme your weak blocking TE's out of the equation
now, is it immensely stupid to carry no fullback + 3 poor blocking TEs? Yes
Get a load of this... Video of Flowers w/ horrible footwork - ( New Window )
Holy CRAP. They are singing Grahams praises on that play but he is COMPLETELY unblocked. This more than anything else seems to be the biggest problem. It looks clear to me that Tye is pulling to get out in front of Jennings. Based on Flowers half-assed attempt to block the tackle Beau Allen, and then realizing Graham is unblocked I have to put that ALL on Flowers. Geezus Christ... is Beatty healthy yet?
Wow -- that's a terrible play -- the scheme sucked vs the coverage -- and Graham was completely unblocked -- Flowers block as poor as the technique was served to work together with the guard to stop the interior tackle from impacting the play -- but to completely vacate the area Graham was coming from without even a chip block means the play was set without evaluating the defensive scheme
Graham was no only uncovered - he blew up the play
The LB Bradham was also COMPLETELY unblocked. Even if Flowers didn't have that epic fail, without Barry Sanders in his prime that play STILL goes NOWHERE. Tye pulls but decides he needs to join Brett Jones in blocking the (already blocked) DE Curry.
WOW. This team just seems to really not know how to run the ball... AT ALL. Every running play we see seems to have these multiple breakdowns. Disturbing.
I noticed the same. The only guy who it looks like could have been assigned to Bradham would have been Brett Jones (69) on the pull. Appears he double-teamed somebody who was already engaged instead of proceeding to the next level to take on the LB.
RE: RE: Nothing that hasn't been discussed here over and over again
by the non-trolls..With the exception of his take on Flowers (who appears to be improving more than given credit for), not much to see here. Imho
Bruce, I don't think we talk enough about how poor Jennings has been running the ball. He's running straight up with little elusiveness in the hole and then when he does get room, not finishing his carries.
Bobby, I think we have, no? Btw, in rewatching the game on Game Pass, I noticed that Jennings was making more postive yardage and some clutch gains than I thought watching the first time..Not posturing for more carries by any means, just pointing out what I believe I saw re-watching the game..
the word on my street is the offensive line, TE's, lack of a fullback, lack of production from running backs and play calling are the problems, not Eli.
have been pointing out the schematic flaws in the run game for years.
You just cannot expect this type of run game to work in the NFL. I remember Shaun O'Hara pointing out at the beginning of the season, schematically, we leave the S's unblocked in the run game and here we see it again.
I do get it - McAdoo centers his entire attack around that play and runs into a brick wall simply to keep the D honest and hope for a 4 yard gain. And it could conceivably work - Odell's 1st TD last week was off a playaction of that play that left the middle wide open. But it's ultimately boring, ugly football to watch, and it will lead to a poor running game where your RBs get the sh#t beat out of them.
I personally just don't care for this offensive system, not afraid to say that....different strokes...
I know he was only the tight ends coach, but McAdoo was there with the 2011 Packers who clearly did not care at all about the running game beyond keeping teams honest (they were ranked 27th overall). They won a Super Bowl that way, so I don't see much changing here in terms of improving the running game. Just not something McAdoo likely sees as important. They averaged 97.4 yards a game with Ryan Grant and James Starks both averaging under 40 each. Right now we're a little over 68, but we have Eli who never runs, unlike Rodgers. Despite this, 2011 Packers lead the league in points scored. Obviously their passing attack was incredibly dynamic, but my guess is that's what McAdoo is trying to emulate in some fashion.
Though I'm not in any position to compare our running scheme to that of the 2011 Packers. Just something I thought of that I'm fine with having debunked or confirmed.
Get a load of this... Video of Flowers w/ horrible footwork - ( New Window )
Holy CRAP. They are singing Grahams praises on that play but he is COMPLETELY unblocked. This more than anything else seems to be the biggest problem. It looks clear to me that Tye is pulling to get out in front of Jennings. Based on Flowers half-assed attempt to block the tackle Beau Allen, and then realizing Graham is unblocked I have to put that ALL on Flowers. Geezus Christ... is Beatty healthy yet?
Wow -- that's a terrible play -- the scheme sucked vs the coverage -- and Graham was completely unblocked -- Flowers block as poor as the technique was served to work together with the guard to stop the interior tackle from impacting the play -- but to completely vacate the area Graham was coming from without even a chip block means the play was set without evaluating the defensive scheme
Graham was no only uncovered - he blew up the play
That whole play design sucked. Something happened between the center, guard, and tackle that forced flowers to help with the nose tackle. Brett Jones pulls and whiffs on his block. Tye should never been pulling on that play. Tye stays in and blocks the RB gets at least 2 to 3 yards which I would take all day. Terrible play design period
also agree that the problems on the offense don't seem readily fixable. We just have to hope that some of the young guys such as Tye, Perkins, Shepard, and Flowers improve - that can help a lot.
However, the offense is going to basically be 2014-2015 - good in the end but inconsistent and all passing production, none from the run game.
It's sad we have to say this again, but a better OL and TE would make a world of difference and must be the priority for next season.
RE: I don't know what streets Peter King was on but,
the word on my street is the offensive line, TE's, lack of a fullback, lack of production from running backs and play calling are the problems, not Eli.
Agreed. I suspect he's really referring to many of the donkeys in the media he talks to, who are too limited in their football knowledge and work ethic to study a little film like he does, so instead they fall back on tired old cliches about Eli
why paint ourselves into a corner on offense like this? we should play toward our strengths and avoid the weaknesses...
Because they hired a guy whom didn't deserve the job(Yet) and who doesn't have the experience to make up for the GMs inability to build a relatively balanced. Which roster would test most coaches w 10 times the experience and skill
Heres to hoping Mac finds a way to spice things up in the running game by using Beatty as the 6th OL. Because right now, this team is passing to open up the run. Thats fine, but not having ANY run game is going to hurt us going forward.
FWIW, I am really REALLY nervous about this game with Cincy. They match up pretty well against us with their front 7. Hope Im wrong and we come out on top.
Problem is, the article made it clear why the Giants continually have problems running the ball and there seems to be no answer. Another area of concern would be that it becomes in increasingly evident that Flowers might never be a strength at left tackle
Surprisingly...
Bruce, I don't think we talk enough about how poor Jennings has been running the ball. He's running straight up with little elusiveness in the hole and then when he does get room, not finishing his carries.
Video of Flowers w/ horrible footwork - ( New Window )
Nice video post by RT. But, that play also is designed for Will Tye to block Brandon Graham. I mean, yeah, Flowers feet are all wrong there and he looks kind of like he's playing on roller skates, but who's drawing up a play where Will Tye is blocking Brandon Graham? Its just all wrong.
You just cannot expect this type of run game to work in the NFL. I remember Shaun O'Hara pointing out at the beginning of the season, schematically, we leave the S's unblocked in the run game and here we see it again.
I do get it - McAdoo centers his entire attack around that play and runs into a brick wall simply to keep the D honest and hope for a 4 yard gain. And it could conceivably work - Odell's 1st TD last week was off a playaction of that play that left the middle wide open. But it's ultimately boring, ugly football to watch, and it will lead to a poor running game where your RBs get the sh#t beat out of them.
I personally just don't care for this offensive system, not afraid to say that....different strokes...
(You aren't running off tackle anyways....)
Holy CRAP. They are singing Grahams praises on that play but he is COMPLETELY unblocked. This more than anything else seems to be the biggest problem. It looks clear to me that Tye is pulling to get out in front of Jennings. Based on Flowers half-assed attempt to block the tackle Beau Allen, and then realizing Graham is unblocked I have to put that ALL on Flowers. Geezus Christ... is Beatty healthy yet?
Quote:
by the non-trolls..With the exception of his take on Flowers (who appears to be improving more than given credit for), not much to see here. Imho
Bruce, I don't think we talk enough about how poor Jennings has been running the ball. He's running straight up with little elusiveness in the hole and then when he does get room, not finishing his carries.
I've been saying for a while that Jennings's only value to this team is in the pass game, more accurately in pass protection.
He just doesn't have the juice in his legs to play the way he tries to. He was never known as some physical contact-seeker, but he is big. He will try to make guys miss and settle for a loss or no-gain instead of lowering his shoulder and taking a positive play (see the failed 3rd and 1 conversion against eagles where he should have ran over Watkins).
He tries to dance and be patient behind the line a la Arian Foster or Leveon Bell, but unfortunately he has cement in his shoes and no burst to get through the line when a hole opens up.
Dependable bass blocker and can pick up yardage if he has huge hole or catches ball with nobody within 5 yards. There were a few run and pass plays last week where Perkins would have picked up 2x yardage as Jennings.
Hopefully coaches continue to work Perk in more. I'm still baffled by Darkwa's total absence in run game. Anyone have any info on that?
overall and the key holding penalty was utter nonsense .
Tyrone Smith does that repeatedly and never gets a flag
for tossing a player to the ground . He is a man child
we get that but again it's the Refs that have different
views on holding calls but that one infuriated me.
It shows that great players to many times in all sports
get the edge and don't get called for penalties when
it's quite obvious .
WOW. This team just seems to really not know how to run the ball... AT ALL. Every running play we see seems to have these multiple breakdowns. Disturbing.
unfortunately as the article points out, when you run 3 WR sets it's imperative to have a good blocking RB especially when you try to scheme your weak blocking TE's out of the equation
now, is it immensely stupid to carry no fullback + 3 poor blocking TEs? Yes
Quote:
Get a load of this... Video of Flowers w/ horrible footwork - ( New Window )
Holy CRAP. They are singing Grahams praises on that play but he is COMPLETELY unblocked. This more than anything else seems to be the biggest problem. It looks clear to me that Tye is pulling to get out in front of Jennings. Based on Flowers half-assed attempt to block the tackle Beau Allen, and then realizing Graham is unblocked I have to put that ALL on Flowers. Geezus Christ... is Beatty healthy yet?
Wow -- that's a terrible play -- the scheme sucked vs the coverage -- and Graham was completely unblocked -- Flowers block as poor as the technique was served to work together with the guard to stop the interior tackle from impacting the play -- but to completely vacate the area Graham was coming from without even a chip block means the play was set without evaluating the defensive scheme
Graham was no only uncovered - he blew up the play
WOW. This team just seems to really not know how to run the ball... AT ALL. Every running play we see seems to have these multiple breakdowns. Disturbing.
I noticed the same. The only guy who it looks like could have been assigned to Bradham would have been Brett Jones (69) on the pull. Appears he double-teamed somebody who was already engaged instead of proceeding to the next level to take on the LB.
Quote:
by the non-trolls..With the exception of his take on Flowers (who appears to be improving more than given credit for), not much to see here. Imho
Bruce, I don't think we talk enough about how poor Jennings has been running the ball. He's running straight up with little elusiveness in the hole and then when he does get room, not finishing his carries.
Bobby, I think we have, no? Btw, in rewatching the game on Game Pass, I noticed that Jennings was making more postive yardage and some clutch gains than I thought watching the first time..Not posturing for more carries by any means, just pointing out what I believe I saw re-watching the game..
Honestly After watching the blocking in that clip, not sure Jennings is the problem.
You just cannot expect this type of run game to work in the NFL. I remember Shaun O'Hara pointing out at the beginning of the season, schematically, we leave the S's unblocked in the run game and here we see it again.
I do get it - McAdoo centers his entire attack around that play and runs into a brick wall simply to keep the D honest and hope for a 4 yard gain. And it could conceivably work - Odell's 1st TD last week was off a playaction of that play that left the middle wide open. But it's ultimately boring, ugly football to watch, and it will lead to a poor running game where your RBs get the sh#t beat out of them.
I personally just don't care for this offensive system, not afraid to say that....different strokes...
I know he was only the tight ends coach, but McAdoo was there with the 2011 Packers who clearly did not care at all about the running game beyond keeping teams honest (they were ranked 27th overall). They won a Super Bowl that way, so I don't see much changing here in terms of improving the running game. Just not something McAdoo likely sees as important. They averaged 97.4 yards a game with Ryan Grant and James Starks both averaging under 40 each. Right now we're a little over 68, but we have Eli who never runs, unlike Rodgers. Despite this, 2011 Packers lead the league in points scored. Obviously their passing attack was incredibly dynamic, but my guess is that's what McAdoo is trying to emulate in some fashion.
Though I'm not in any position to compare our running scheme to that of the 2011 Packers. Just something I thought of that I'm fine with having debunked or confirmed.
Quote:
In comment 13211847 FranknWeezer said:
Quote:
Get a load of this... Video of Flowers w/ horrible footwork - ( New Window )
Holy CRAP. They are singing Grahams praises on that play but he is COMPLETELY unblocked. This more than anything else seems to be the biggest problem. It looks clear to me that Tye is pulling to get out in front of Jennings. Based on Flowers half-assed attempt to block the tackle Beau Allen, and then realizing Graham is unblocked I have to put that ALL on Flowers. Geezus Christ... is Beatty healthy yet?
Wow -- that's a terrible play -- the scheme sucked vs the coverage -- and Graham was completely unblocked -- Flowers block as poor as the technique was served to work together with the guard to stop the interior tackle from impacting the play -- but to completely vacate the area Graham was coming from without even a chip block means the play was set without evaluating the defensive scheme
Graham was no only uncovered - he blew up the play
That whole play design sucked. Something happened between the center, guard, and tackle that forced flowers to help with the nose tackle. Brett Jones pulls and whiffs on his block. Tye should never been pulling on that play. Tye stays in and blocks the RB gets at least 2 to 3 yards which I would take all day. Terrible play design period
However, the offense is going to basically be 2014-2015 - good in the end but inconsistent and all passing production, none from the run game.
It's sad we have to say this again, but a better OL and TE would make a world of difference and must be the priority for next season.
Agreed. I suspect he's really referring to many of the donkeys in the media he talks to, who are too limited in their football knowledge and work ethic to study a little film like he does, so instead they fall back on tired old cliches about Eli
Because they hired a guy whom didn't deserve the job(Yet) and who doesn't have the experience to make up for the GMs inability to build a relatively balanced. Which roster would test most coaches w 10 times the experience and skill