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Flowers pass protection

cnewk : 11/21/2016 6:54 pm
There was a thread on PFF's rating on Flowers that said he gave up nine pressures and was awful in pass protection. I don't agree with this assessment.

He had some struggles in pass protection and wasn't great, but he wasn't awful. I counted 39 pass plays to review. Here are the 7 worst plays from Flowers in pass protection. The other 32 he basically gets the job done as good as you expect.


4-2-CHI 17 (4:35 in 1st) – Complete to Shepard
Flowers is beat, but Eli has room to step up and completes the pass.

2-9-NYG 26 (15:00 in 2nd) Holding penalty on Flowers

2-10-NYG 15 (8:26 in 2nd) Complete to Jennings for 12 yards
Flowers gets beat (kind of) he pushes Floyd to the ground as he goes by. Eli has room to step up pretty easily, but if there was other pressure, it would have been an issue.

3-10-CHI 28 (3:43 in 3rd) Incomplete, should have been intercepted.
Flowers gets pushed back and allows a pressure, but Jerry is beaten worse, and Hart doesn’t do particularly well on this play either.

1-9-CHI 9 (11:15 in 1st) Incomplete
Flowers is beat to the inside. Newhouse isn’t able to pick up the DE, the DT loops around and gets a pressure since Flowers isn’t there to pick him up. This was poor on both Flowers and Newhouse, but I think it was more on Flowers than Newhouse. I could see an argument the other way, though.

2-10-CHI 21 (7:36 in 3rd)
Flowers beaten to the outside holds Floyd around the neck, but fortunately doesn’t draw a holding penalty. If he holds on even a little longer there is probably a flag, as it was it could have (and probably should have) been called.

3-4-NYG 37 (10:24 in 4th)
Floyd dropped into coverage and Flowers is blocking Washington. He gets around him, but rather slowly and since Eli is throwing quick he doesn’t impact the play. If Eli had to hold the ball longer, he would have had to step up.

So, I didn't think he was great in pass protection, but he certainly doesn't deserve to be listed as in the top 10 worst performers across the whole league this week.
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RE: So 1 penalty and a couple of pressures on 39 plays  
Gman11 : 11/22/2016 9:14 am : link
In comment 13228938 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
what is so bad about that? How do other LT's do?


I'll bet people are evaluating the Bears pass rush and saying that they only beat the LT in 7 of 39 plays. They have to do much better than that.
The result of the last two plays isn't given  
shyster : 11/22/2016 9:15 am : link
but both were completed passes. Which means in five of these seven plays, the pass was completed, with one being called back for holding. And the called hold was for Flowers' holding Washington, not Floyd.

Floyd had 58 snaps, most of them matched with Flowers and all of his efforts contributed to one incomplete pass (play #4, where the whole pocket is under pressure).

Granted, Floyd should have gotten the holding call in his favor in play #6, which was the play before the Giants scored their last TD and could have changed the outcome. That is a legit concern with Flowers but doesn't mean he had a bad game.



RE: If he got beat 7 times on 37 dropbacks  
cnewk : 11/22/2016 9:28 am : link
In comment 13229047 WillieYoung said:
Quote:
that's nearly 20%. I don't think that's acceptable in Pop Warner. If this is a defense of Flowers, i'd hate to see a critical piece.


It wasn't meant to argue that Flowers had a great game in pass protection. He didn't. He had some struggles. He obviously needs to keep getting better. It was only meant to defend him against the over the top criticism from PFF listing as one of the 10 worst players this week across the NFL. He wasn't nearly that bad. Against Green Bay, he was that bad. Here I would say he was a little below average for a starting left tackle.

He had more bad plays than what you would like to see, but all of these plays are equally bad. Several of them were less than what you want from your tackle, but relatively easy for Eli to avoid or throw before it mattered.

The purpose really was to show what his bad plays looked like so that people could make up their own minds about what they think. Speaking of which, I just realized I put the wrong quarter for a couple of the plays. So if anyone is going back and reviewing the plays for themself: the 3-10-CHI 28 was 3:43 in the 2nd and the 1-9-CHI 9 was 11:15 in the 3rd. They should be in the order they occurred in the game.

Flowers  
ryanmkeane : 11/22/2016 9:31 am : link
RIGHT NOW is a solid yet inconsistent young LT who plays with a mean streak and completely wipes you out at times, and other times struggles with technique. He's 22 and improving, can only be optimistic about his future ahead - that's the way I see it. I don't think this will happen but let's say he only slightly improves from what he is now...that's still pretty good. If he drastically improves, we have a really really good LT.
RE: He had his struggles  
ryanmkeane : 11/22/2016 9:39 am : link
In comment 13228955 Joey in VA said:
Quote:
Why is that not enough and we have to wring our hands every single play over the guy?

Because people here need a reason to get pissed at Reese, or to blame him for something. So...they basically want Flowers to be bad. In all seriousness.
Flowers still doesn't appear to be quick enough or saavy enough for LT  
TD : 11/22/2016 9:40 am : link
I'm holding out hope but he looks like a pure RT to me. At least there Eli can see the pressure coming and navigate in the pocket. Plus, RT usually faces less speed rushers (not always true, obviously).
Patience  
JonC : 11/22/2016 9:46 am : link
NFL development tends to be non-linear, and EF is still only 22 years old. Just wait until the confidence and seasoning begin to kick in consistently.

As for moving him to RT, keep in mind even though they kicked tires on multiple LTs last offseason, a big reason they didn't sign one is very likely because they told them they'd be playing RT while EF is entrenched on the blind side.
ryan..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 11/22/2016 9:46 am : link
bingo.

I've never seen such a strange phenomenon on a message board where there are literally several posters who will only post comments that degrade the GM.
Awesome work  
chuckydee9 : 11/22/2016 10:02 am : link
But OL has to be consistently good.. Blowing up 5-7 passing plays is pretty bad.. and he wasn't facing JJ Watt, or Mack this was a pretty average group of starting DL..
At least Eli got better  
rebel yell : 11/22/2016 10:03 am : link
protection than Cutler got. Damn, we beat the living snot out of that whiny Vandy boy. That 4th quarter DL surge and QB pressure was impressive.
Flowers  
oldog : 11/22/2016 10:08 am : link
is just as bad as Landon Collins was last year.
RE: ryan..  
ryanmkeane : 11/22/2016 10:38 am : link
In comment 13229106 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
bingo.

I've never seen such a strange phenomenon on a message board where there are literally several posters who will only post comments that degrade the GM.

It never fails...
I think Solari has done a good job with him....  
Simms11 : 11/22/2016 11:34 am : link
he's got better punch and slides better. But, as others mentioned, he still reverts to bad technique at times against speed rushers. I think its a matter of repetition, experience and maturity. I think he'll get better going into next year. He's got all the qualities you want in a LT and he'll get better. Beatty also wasn't that great his first few years and then came on. I think Flowers is already on his way to improvement. He had flaws coming in when he was drafted and it was going to take time with him.
and next year, the excuse will be "he's only 23"  
HomerJones45 : 11/22/2016 11:37 am : link
this guy was a number 1 pick who in his second year as a starter. It's about time he started establishing the dominance his ardent admirers keep predicting for him.
RE: and next year, the excuse will be  
Johnny5 : 11/22/2016 11:59 am : link
In comment 13229355 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
this guy was a number 1 pick who in his second year as a starter. It's about time he started establishing the dominance his ardent admirers keep predicting for him.

But he is struggling with what was already a known issue for him, technique. He was so dominant for so long with bad technique that he really needs to have the muscle memory Solari is teaching pounded into him with repetition, over and over again. And even if that happens? Guess what he'll revert to when he slips? The same old bad technique. Muscle memory is very powerful. The good news is he has gotten consistently better. He is going to have issues where he slides backwards but if he keeps consistently improving he will be a great LT. He's already good, he just needs to keep improving.
Besides QB,  
CT Charlie : 11/22/2016 12:06 pm : link
1) What position is hardest for a young player to learn
2) At what position will your mistakes most likely be exposed, and
3) At what position will you regularly face the most physical player on the opposing team?

How many opposing D-lineman are saying, "Good, I get to face Flowers this week"?
How many opposing D-lineman are saying, "Flowers is only going to get worse"?

Don't mind Gene  
Greg from LI : 11/22/2016 12:23 pm : link
Without his dreamboat, he's going to continue to do nothing but complain.
RE: and next year, the excuse will be  
Big Blue '56 : 11/22/2016 12:38 pm : link
In comment 13229355 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
this guy was a number 1 pick who in his second year as a starter. It's about time he started establishing the dominance his ardent admirers keep predicting for him.


Gene, last year he gutted it out essentially on one leg. He has a new OL coach in Solari, considered one of the better ones in the league. I have no idea how long it will take for him to reach his potential, but Solari is the guy you'd want from all indications..It's 2/3 into the season and he's improving. I opt to be patient with him
RE: and next year, the excuse will be  
ryanmkeane : 11/22/2016 12:42 pm : link
In comment 13229355 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
this guy was a number 1 pick who in his second year as a starter. It's about time he started establishing the dominance his ardent admirers keep predicting for him.

Well, no, because that wouldn't make sense. If he's still inconsistent and struggling in year 3, that's an issue, as most here have said.
Homer  
ryanmkeane : 11/22/2016 12:43 pm : link
were you calling Landon Collins a bust last season?
RE: RE: If he got beat 7 times on 37 dropbacks  
Thegratefulhead : 11/22/2016 12:52 pm : link
In comment 13229079 cnewk said:
Quote:
In comment 13229047 WillieYoung said:


Quote:


that's nearly 20%. I don't think that's acceptable in Pop Warner. If this is a defense of Flowers, i'd hate to see a critical piece.



It wasn't meant to argue that Flowers had a great game in pass protection. He didn't. He had some struggles. He obviously needs to keep getting better. It was only meant to defend him against the over the top criticism from PFF listing as one of the 10 worst players this week across the NFL. He wasn't nearly that bad. Against Green Bay, he was that bad. Here I would say he was a little below average for a starting left tackle.

He had more bad plays than what you would like to see, but all of these plays are equally bad. Several of them were less than what you want from your tackle, but relatively easy for Eli to avoid or throw before it mattered.

The purpose really was to show what his bad plays looked like so that people could make up their own minds about what they think. Speaking of which, I just realized I put the wrong quarter for a couple of the plays. So if anyone is going back and reviewing the plays for themself: the 3-10-CHI 28 was 3:43 in the 2nd and the 1-9-CHI 9 was 11:15 in the 3rd. They should be in the order they occurred in the game.


Could you post a review of a left tackle that everyone agrees is pretty good, not the best in the league but a top 10 LT. I am guessing they mistake too.
RE: and next year, the excuse will be  
Rory : 11/22/2016 1:48 pm : link
In comment 13229355 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
this guy was a number 1 pick who in his second year as a starter. It's about time he started establishing the dominance his ardent admirers keep predicting for him.


This "guy" is a 22 year old kid who kid pound you an all his critics into sea salt

He will be around 24-25 when his contract is up where he should be in his prime which could give the Giants a LT to build with for the future for the next QB. If not then you let him test the market

IMO its worth the investment and the risk so save your shit until later
Everyone seems to dismiss holding...  
chilly460 : 11/22/2016 1:55 pm : link
I keep seeing "he didn't give up a sack". That's BS, same people are saying Vernon and JPP are having "great years" despite not having big sack numbers because they're pressuring the QB. So, which is it?

Simple fact is he hurt his team on 20% of pass plays, way too many.

And, while he didn't give up a sack, the holding penalty is almost as bad. I'd love to see the stats, % of first downs gained when a holding penalty is called on the offense. It's a drive killer, hurts field position, and makes the offense one dimensional if it happens on 1st/2nd down, basically same as a sack.
RE: Everyone seems to dismiss holding...  
Rory : 11/22/2016 1:58 pm : link
In comment 13229595 chilly460 said:
Quote:
I keep seeing "he didn't give up a sack". That's BS, same people are saying Vernon and JPP are having "great years" despite not having big sack numbers because they're pressuring the QB. So, which is it?

Simple fact is he hurt his team on 20% of pass plays, way too many.

And, while he didn't give up a sack, the holding penalty is almost as bad. I'd love to see the stats, % of first downs gained when a holding penalty is called on the offense. It's a drive killer, hurts field position, and makes the offense one dimensional if it happens on 1st/2nd down, basically same as a sack.


look around chillywilly , thats the entire league.
RE: I think folks  
est1986 : 11/22/2016 2:39 pm : link
In comment 13228680 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
have short-term memories. I also think fans are looking to nit-pick. Flowers didn't give up a sack. He gave up some pressure, but that happens in an NFL game. He had one really bad game earlier this year (Packers) but for the most part he has been solid.


100% agree.
RE: and next year, the excuse will be  
B in ALB : 11/22/2016 3:09 pm : link
In comment 13229355 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
this guy was a number 1 pick who in his second year as a starter. It's about time he started establishing the dominance his ardent admirers keep predicting for him.


See? This is the type of ignorant bullshit that I can't stand on this site. The guy is a baby who came out of a college program where he played two seasons as a LT starting as a 19 year old. He's played about 45 games in five years after graduating high school. Think about that for a second before you spout off nonsense.

His curve is steep but he's already made really solid progress coming out of his rookie season. He's playing with no TE to speak of, a revolving door at G and two position coaches plus two head coaches in two years. Yet people here demand that he's Anthony Munoz right out of the gate. What i want to see is progress. And we're seeing that.
RE: RE: and next year, the excuse will be  
ryanmkeane : 11/22/2016 3:17 pm : link
In comment 13229730 B in ALB said:
Quote:
In comment 13229355 HomerJones45 said:


Quote:


this guy was a number 1 pick who in his second year as a starter. It's about time he started establishing the dominance his ardent admirers keep predicting for him.



See? This is the type of ignorant bullshit that I can't stand on this site. The guy is a baby who came out of a college program where he played two seasons as a LT starting as a 19 year old. He's played about 45 games in five years after graduating high school. Think about that for a second before you spout off nonsense.

His curve is steep but he's already made really solid progress coming out of his rookie season. He's playing with no TE to speak of, a revolving door at G and two position coaches plus two head coaches in two years. Yet people here demand that he's Anthony Munoz right out of the gate. What i want to see is progress. And we're seeing that.

Well, he's not Tyron Smith yet. So...he sucks. Don't forget that. In fact, tell it to everyone you know. Coworkers, friends, etc.

These same people will never be satisfied. Reese = satan. Eli = washed up. McAdoo = can already tell he won't cut it. Defense = yeah but we spent all that money. Did I miss anything?
B is wise  
Greg from LI : 11/22/2016 3:25 pm : link
Flowers is a guy who came to the Giants very young and very inexperienced. I suppose you can knock the organization for installing him as a starter Day One when he was inevitably going to have some struggles. That's fair enough. What I don't understand is why those ups and downs lead some to write him off at the age of 22.
B, Ryan, and Greg doing the lord's work on this thread  
David in LA : 11/22/2016 3:36 pm : link
You have to wonder ifsome posters hate Reese more than they actually like the team.
RE: RE: and next year, the excuse will be  
HomerJones45 : 11/22/2016 3:38 pm : link
In comment 13229730 B in ALB said:
Quote:
In comment 13229355 HomerJones45 said:


Quote:


this guy was a number 1 pick who in his second year as a starter. It's about time he started establishing the dominance his ardent admirers keep predicting for him.



See? This is the type of ignorant bullshit that I can't stand on this site. The guy is a baby who came out of a college program where he played two seasons as a LT starting as a 19 year old. He's played about 45 games in five years after graduating high school. Think about that for a second before you spout off nonsense.

His curve is steep but he's already made really solid progress coming out of his rookie season. He's playing with no TE to speak of, a revolving door at G and two position coaches plus two head coaches in two years. Yet people here demand that he's Anthony Munoz right out of the gate. What i want to see is progress. And we're seeing that.
That's ok, you spew your own bullshit like the excuses you come up with for Flowers' performance.
Look, Flowers to me is our Left Tackle come hell or high water  
Jimmy Googs : 11/22/2016 3:59 pm : link
but too many on this thread actually sound like you are setting the bar too low with this guy.

To my amateur eyes, I don't see much, if any, improvement in the kid since last year.

Don't get me wrong...I don't think he sucks (nor did I think so last year) but he has his problems. Agree the most important thing to assess is improvement/development (and not just game-to-game), but i just would not give him a higher grade now than this time last season.

Fair?

RE: B, Ryan, and Greg doing the lord's work on this thread  
ryanmkeane : 11/22/2016 4:00 pm : link
In comment 13229797 David in LA said:
Quote:
You have to wonder ifsome posters hate Reese more than they actually like the team.

Wow...never thought of it that way. Interesting, yet completely accurate take.
RE: Look, Flowers to me is our Left Tackle come hell or high water  
ryanmkeane : 11/22/2016 4:03 pm : link
In comment 13229836 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
but too many on this thread actually sound like you are setting the bar too low with this guy.

To my amateur eyes, I don't see much, if any, improvement in the kid since last year.

Don't get me wrong...I don't think he sucks (nor did I think so last year) but he has his problems. Agree the most important thing to assess is improvement/development (and not just game-to-game), but i just would not give him a higher grade now than this time last season.

Fair?

That's....kinda fair. But I don't think he showed any dominance last season, or had any games where he shined/didn't struggle at times. This season, there has been games where he's been really really good. So...I'd say his inconsistency has improved...if that makes sense.
Flowers  
stretch234 : 11/22/2016 4:19 pm : link
Who exactly was the last LT to flash dominance 25 games into his career? Trent Williams.

Not T. Smith, M. Kalil looked good his R season and almost got cut this year before getting hurt because of how awful he has been. E. Fisher, L. Joeckel, J. Matthews, G. Robinson.

Enough of this. He looks light years better than last year


Ryan, I'm positive that it was Homer who admitted  
David in LA : 11/22/2016 4:19 pm : link
that he admires Coughlin more than he actually likes the entire organization.
RE: RE: RE: and next year, the excuse will be  
B in ALB : 11/22/2016 4:20 pm : link
In comment 13229800 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
In comment 13229730 B in ALB said:


Quote:


In comment 13229355 HomerJones45 said:


Quote:


this guy was a number 1 pick who in his second year as a starter. It's about time he started establishing the dominance his ardent admirers keep predicting for him.



See? This is the type of ignorant bullshit that I can't stand on this site. The guy is a baby who came out of a college program where he played two seasons as a LT starting as a 19 year old. He's played about 45 games in five years after graduating high school. Think about that for a second before you spout off nonsense.

His curve is steep but he's already made really solid progress coming out of his rookie season. He's playing with no TE to speak of, a revolving door at G and two position coaches plus two head coaches in two years. Yet people here demand that he's Anthony Munoz right out of the gate. What i want to see is progress. And we're seeing that.

That's ok, you spew your own bullshit like the excuses you come up with for Flowers' performance.


No excuses here. I think he's played pretty damned well despite those circumstances.

Name another LT in the nfl who has the same resume. I'll wait.
RE: Look, Flowers to me is our Left Tackle come hell or high water  
giants#1 : 11/22/2016 4:26 pm : link
In comment 13229836 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
but too many on this thread actually sound like you are setting the bar too low with this guy.

To my amateur eyes, I don't see much, if any, improvement in the kid since last year.

Don't get me wrong...I don't think he sucks (nor did I think so last year) but he has his problems. Agree the most important thing to assess is improvement/development (and not just game-to-game), but i just would not give him a higher grade now than this time last season.

Fair?


I disagree. He's been significantly better than he was at this point last season. He was one of the worst starting OTs in football last year (obviously the bad ankle didn't help) and while he hasn't been 'good' this year, I think he's been close to average at LT.
Didn't have a feeling one way or the other when they picked Flowers  
ghost718 : 11/22/2016 4:31 pm : link
Than I started watching him play.Than it became obvious that it was a typical Reese pick.The player with upside who can make Jerry look like a genius,and if he fails,blame the coaches.

I don't put any money on those any more.
RE: RE: Look, Flowers to me is our Left Tackle come hell or high water  
Jimmy Googs : 11/22/2016 4:33 pm : link
In comment 13229884 giants#1 said:
Quote:
In comment 13229836 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


but too many on this thread actually sound like you are setting the bar too low with this guy.

To my amateur eyes, I don't see much, if any, improvement in the kid since last year.

Don't get me wrong...I don't think he sucks (nor did I think so last year) but he has his problems. Agree the most important thing to assess is improvement/development (and not just game-to-game), but i just would not give him a higher grade now than this time last season.

Fair?




I disagree. He's been significantly better than he was at this point last season. He was one of the worst starting OTs in football last year (obviously the bad ankle didn't help) and while he hasn't been 'good' this year, I think he's been close to average at LT.


Got it. So based on how you answered, which OTs has he passed from last year to this one?
RE: Didn't have a feeling one way or the other when they picked Flowers  
David in LA : 11/22/2016 4:35 pm : link
In comment 13229890 ghost718 said:
Quote:
Than I started watching him play.Than it became obvious that it was a typical Reese pick.The player with upside who can make Jerry look like a genius,and if he fails,blame the coaches.

I don't put any money on those any more.


Provide a list of 1st round busts, because the 1st round is where Reese has the most input on the selections. I'll be waiting on this list of typical Reese picks. Some of the stuff that gets said about the guy, I'm shocked that no one has accused him of being a secret Muslim or born in Kenya.
Nah you can do that yourself  
ghost718 : 11/22/2016 4:37 pm : link
If you guys don't know Reese's draft tendencies by now,you never will
You won't do it, because the facts  
David in LA : 11/22/2016 4:40 pm : link
flies against your stupid little narrative. You thoroughly embarrassed yourself when TC was shown the door. Root for some other team if you hate the GM so much that you would make up things to propel your made up reality.
When TC was shown the door?  
ghost718 : 11/22/2016 4:45 pm : link
You don't know your history very well.I've been killing him for years.

RE: RE: RE: Look, Flowers to me is our Left Tackle come hell or high water  
Johnny5 : 11/22/2016 4:52 pm : link
In comment 13229893 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 13229884 giants#1 said:


Quote:


In comment 13229836 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


but too many on this thread actually sound like you are setting the bar too low with this guy.

To my amateur eyes, I don't see much, if any, improvement in the kid since last year.

Don't get me wrong...I don't think he sucks (nor did I think so last year) but he has his problems. Agree the most important thing to assess is improvement/development (and not just game-to-game), but i just would not give him a higher grade now than this time last season.

Fair?




I disagree. He's been significantly better than he was at this point last season. He was one of the worst starting OTs in football last year (obviously the bad ankle didn't help) and while he hasn't been 'good' this year, I think he's been close to average at LT.



Got it. So based on how you answered, which OTs has he passed from last year to this one?

Well, top o' the head I'd say Da"Brick Ferguson (I know he's retired) and Gilliam for Seattle. They were the two directly behind him in pressures allowed last year.
Oh, I'm sorry  
David in LA : 11/22/2016 4:55 pm : link
you're just an unabashed Reese hater.
RE: B is wise  
B in ALB : 11/22/2016 4:59 pm : link
In comment 13229775 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
Flowers is a guy who came to the Giants very young and very inexperienced. I suppose you can knock the organization for installing him as a starter Day One when he was inevitably going to have some struggles. That's fair enough. What I don't understand is why those ups and downs lead some to write him off at the age of 22.


But see this is something people forget (not saying you're one of them, Greg). He wasn't installed as the Day 1 starter - he was thrust into the LT job once Beatty got hurt lifting weights. The original plan was to have him play RT if I'm not mistaken. That position allows for a bit more leeway and isn't nearly as scrutinized as LT. Even a year at RT allows him to adapt a bit to the speed, physicality, schemes and athleticism that the professional game demands.

Instead, he's thrown into the fire immediately following an injury. For me, this has turned out to be a positive. There have been plenty of OLmen who entered this league highly-touted and ended up crapping out in a year or two. Flowers has gotten better - and long term - that's going to pay huge dividends for this team. Especially once Eli is gone and if Flowers remains.
David  
ryanmkeane : 11/22/2016 5:51 pm : link
let's go back and bring up the threads about Collins from all of last season. Maybe a Pugh thread from after the Philly game two years ago. That'd be fun.
Extremely sad  
ryanmkeane : 11/22/2016 5:53 pm : link
yet extremely funny to me that people who have spent their whole lives watching football, liking a team, or following the draft, still don't know how the draft actually works, or what developing a drafted player actually means to a team.
Remember  
ryanmkeane : 11/22/2016 5:55 pm : link
David Diehl? Dude was barely drafted and improved year over year and turned into what he did. Wonder what you morons would have thought of him after his first 25 games.
An unabashed Reese Hater  
ghost718 : 11/22/2016 5:59 pm : link
Well,Reese Hater sounds right coming from you,but unabashed has gotta go.
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