to say 'imagine if the franchise QB is replaced by a guy who has never started and shows no sign of ever being anything but an emergency starter, and imagine if a likely franchise WR isn't there'.
It's fair to say 'what if you had a borderline HOF QB and a possible HOF WR, and a decent rookie WR, and a decent 3rd WR. and a 3.9 ypc rushing stat. wouldn't you think that would be a decent nucleus capable of putting up more than meh?'
to say 'imagine if the franchise QB is replaced by a guy who has never started and shows no sign of ever being anything but an emergency starter, and imagine if a likely franchise WR isn't there'.
It's fair to say 'what if you had a borderline HOF QB and a possible HOF WR, and a decent rookie WR, and a decent 3rd WR. and a 3.9 ypc rushing stat. wouldn't you think that would be a decent nucleus capable of putting up more than meh?'
Let me rephrase that... Other than a great QB and great WR, can you win with a couple of other WR's that can't get separation, no tight end, a mediocre to bad offensive line, and the 2nd worst run game in the NFL?
Game managers usually aren't making the only plays that are needed to win ie: 3 TD passes today. Game managers rely on a strong running game, not turning the ball over, and moving the chains through the air every now and then.
Without Eli and OBJ, we have nothing. At least that's what it feels like to me. You want to see bad? Imagine what our offense looks like with Nassib in for Eli and Cruz starting for OBJ, with Lewis Jr. and Sheppard.
Without Montana and Rice, I bet those 49ers teams of the 80s wouldn't have been as good as they were.
I bet most teams aren't as good as they are without their 2 best players.
I've said that was a dumb way to state my point and now also rephrased Â
How about you and I save ourselves the 50 message exchange where you keep harping on it over and over, beating it to death by focusing one super small facet, that I've already conceded, while ignoring the larger point?
How about you and I save ourselves the 50 message exchange where you keep harping on it over and over, beating it to death by focusing one super small facet, that I've already conceded, while ignoring the larger point?
Deal?
I haven't actually read the whole thread yet.
That comment stood out as not saying anything of substance, so I responded. If you've walked that back, that's fair.
it's not about fantasy stats. it's about needing an offense that can carry it's share of the load. We can beat the bottom half of the league as is, but we're not going anywhere as is. this offense should be better than it is, with the same players.
I am going to disagree on the block in the back penalty Â
I thought the one on Apple was questionable, but Perkins got both hands on the back of the Browns player and pushed. It wasn't a bug shove, but it was a clear block in the back none the less.
I love Eli, but won't pretend he is playing great. Â
On the other hand, I also don't think he is playing poorly. He missed some throws deep he should and normally would make. But, he also completed 3 TD passes and some other big throws. He also controls the game better than any other QB in the league right now in terms of reading the D, setting the offense, audibles, etc.
All that said, this offense has enough talent at QB and WR and even RB to play much better than they have been overall. If they don't start playing better for sustained periods, they will be in trouble the rest of the way. The D is having a bigger impact right now. What happens if they have an off day?
I have also been one of Spags' biggest critics and I have to admit his D has looked much better the last several weeks. Then again, it does fit my description of him only looking good when he gets very good DL play. Right now, the DL is asserting itself against the run and pass, inside and out. IT also helps that this is the first year in a while the secondary seems to mostly all be on the same page in coverage.
The hold on the OBJ punt return for the TD, unlike the block in the back, seemed like a BS call. The Browns player seemed to run over Herzlich, who was falling backwards. Herzlich did not appear to grab the Browns player and pull him down.
As for the DL, they are playing very well of late. But, keep in mind they also have been playing some banged up and/or bad OLs. Then again, they played some banged up OLs earlier in the year and didn't exert themselves. So, them stepping up is still a good thing.
Because other than obj, we have zero weapons with speed. Cruz and SS are possession receivers. Our tight ends are a joke. Jennings is slow. Perkins is very raw and inexperienced.
We have 2 tds of 35 yards or more other than beckam...and that was on a blocked field goal and a INT. that puts a ton of pressure on your qb to be perfect all the time. Yeah he missed some throws today. But our running backs averaged 3.3 yards per carry. Our #2 had 1 catch. Our slot guy had 0. And it's not like they were running free all day either.
He threw a perfect fade to cruz and then to harris for a TD. The seam pass to beckham was one of his best throes all year.
And he had ZERO turnovers. And contrary to belief the tipped ball by Ogbah wasn't even close to being intercepted despite BBI claiming it was.
15 TDs during this streak with only 2 rushing TDs. I think a lot of things need to get better... Eli not nearly being at the top of things.
I was set to think Eli was going to have an off day Â
Game managers usually aren't making the only plays that are needed to win ie: 3 TD passes today. Game managers rely on a strong running game, not turning the ball over, and moving the chains through the air every now and then.
Without Eli and OBJ, we have nothing. At least that's what it feels like to me. You want to see bad? Imagine what our offense looks like with Nassib in for Eli and Cruz starting for OBJ, with Lewis Jr. and Sheppard.
Without Montana and Rice, I bet those 49ers teams of the 80s wouldn't have been as good as they were.
I bet most teams aren't as good as they are without their 2 best players.
For what it's worth, they won 2 of those Superbowls without Rice.
and the one "good" thing about being in these knock down, drag out ugly games rather than some pretty blow out types. As the season moves along, games get tighter and not as clean, particularly in the playoffs. The Giants are used to playing in these, and have been winning these. Teams who are used to taking big leads and enjoying everything go their way, tend to panic when they are in tight games. Look at the Packers vs. the Giants in the 2011 playoffs. When things started to not go their way, they fell apart. This isn't the NFL from 20-30 years ago. A 15-1 or 14-2 team now is not as dominant as a team with that record in the 1980s. There really is little difference between a 15-1 and 10-6 or 9-7 team.
For the Giants, just get in the "tournament" as Parcells used to say, and take your chances.
Because other than obj, we have zero weapons with speed. Cruz and SS are possession receivers. Our tight ends are a joke. Jennings is slow. Perkins is very raw and inexperienced..
Eli is scrutinized because he's the franchise QB. His supporting cast outside of OBJ is below average but that doesn't mean it's acceptable to miss that many throws.
I think many fans overlook many of the things he does well like not taking sacks. But I see nothing wrong with pointing out he hasn't been sharp this year.
I'm hoping he finds his A game down the stretch. I think he will get hot at some point.
Because other than obj, we have zero weapons with speed. Cruz and SS are possession receivers. Our tight ends are a joke. Jennings is slow. Perkins is very raw and inexperienced..
Eli is scrutinized because he's the franchise QB. His supporting cast outside of OBJ is below average but that doesn't mean it's acceptable to miss that many throws.
I think many fans overlook many of the things he does well like not taking sacks. But I see nothing wrong with pointing out he hasn't been sharp this year.
I'm hoping he finds his A game down the stretch. I think he will get hot at some point.
He's accounted for 83% of our tds during the 6 game streak. Must be doing something right.
He missed some throws and made some .. biggest thing I saw was they took a lot of shots deep. His protection was good. I think a lot of this was to prepare for the rest of the season.
The RB numbers rushing the last 3 games
24-118
25-101
24-84
Having a defense the staff knows can make stops, changes how you call plays.
I honestly don't think the last 2 weeks the Giants felt at all threatened by the offenses they had to play
is handicapped by zero run game, which means that teams play their safeties back in some type of Cover 2 shell. It's almost impossible to throw deep against that defense.
Beckham is really the only WR who can get deep, and teams are always guarding agains that with safety help over the top against him. Cruz can't get deep anymore. He's caught a few long passes, but his lack of separation is obvious. It took nearly perfect throws by Eli to get him the ball on those plays. Shepard is a slot receiver. Maybe Lewis can get deep later on this season, but that doesn't seem likely.
Eli is therefore often throwing against six or seven defenders, into tight windows, even at the second level. His pass protection at times has also been shaky.
But his accuracy and arm strength seem to have declined. Eli has taken a lot of hits over his career. He's also been lucky that a few passes were intercepted, including two against the Bears.
I'd like to see fewer shotgun draws with Jennings, and more runs by Perkins, especially around the end. Flare passes to the RBs and flanker screens to OBJ and Shepard would also be a good way of compensating for the lack of a run game.
Nassib is likely gone after this year. The fact that the Giants brought in Johnson strongly suggests that they are ready to move on as well. We should start thinking about Eli's replacement. It's not a good draft for QBs, but Davis Webb of California is somebody they might want to consider.
We are still kind of a train-wreck on Offense. Mostly cannot get Â
out of our own way for about 1/2 of the game with drops, bad passes, penalties. Did Shepard even play today? When are we going to let Perkins play more as there were some decent holes but Jennings is too god awful slow to get thru them.
But every now and then Eli does a little shuffle in pocket, finds OBJ and he is off to the races. Nothing else to say other than it is what is with these guys...
Defense really turning up the intensity big time, particularly the D-line. Have no idea why we just didn't go man-to-man on Prior as there was nothing else that Cleveland team could do. Adams is still being targeted as FS.. he is either so deep he can't help over the middle or gets caught looking in the backfield like on the goal line deep pass.
...Giants are flawed wake up everyone is flawed. Did you expect a 2008 January - November version of NYG this season? I know this is a forum for discussion but shit... enjoy this a little bit.
Why is running when leading a bad thing? I have no issue with playing a safe, ball control game with lead. It's playing to the strength of the team and a sound strategy to get a W. That's more important than Eli's stats.
Why is running when leading a bad thing? I have no issue with playing a safe, ball control game with lead. It's playing to the strength of the team and a sound strategy to get a W. That's more important than Eli's stats.
Because we don't score when we have gone into a shell. We didn't score after we tool the lead against the bears. And the only offensive score today was a big eli throw to obj then a td to obj.
RE: I'm sorry that was another shit again against an awful opponent Â
This team isn't very good. I couldn't tell which team was 0-11 the vast majority of the game.
When I read comments like this, it makes me wonder if Giants fans watch any other games other than the Giants. The fact is, every team has drives stall; every team has stretches where they let an inferior team hang with them. If the Giants had jumped out to 14-0 lead right away and then traded 3-and-outs with Cleveland for a quarter, you'd barely notice it. If they'd have jumped out to a 27-0 lead, we'd all be jumping for joy, and then if Cleveland crept back to 27-13 late in the game, that joy would turn to anger.
The fact is, we went on the road against a desperate team, handled their best, and then continued to pull away as our defense really stepped up in front of our very eyes. This is far from a perfect team by any stretch, but it's a team being led by a rookie head coach who just surpassed the win totals of each of the past three seasons and did so in just 11 games.
If you were expecting an overnight transformation into a dominant contender, maybe your expectations were too high. But they are a contender, albeit flawed. Still, a contender as we head into December, with the second-best record in the conference thus far.
JPP was listed as questionable and had his best game of the year Â
To keep him returning punts. I don't care what the trade off is, not worth the risk
That was my first thought too. Maybe in a playoff game or something but not now.
This is ridiculous. Deion Sanders was every bit the dominant player that Beckham is, although on the other side of the ball. Antonio Brown is every bit the WR that Beckham is. Both of them were/are as important to their teams as OBJ is to ours.
Use your best players in the best possible way to help your team win.
The left guard was injured. The backup left guard was injured. Â
They were never really in danger of not winning the game. However, the combo of penalties, turnovers, and special teams continues to bite this team in the nuts. Their inability to run the ball against a crappy run defense's 6 man front was a bit scary.
JPP is trying to get OV money.
Eli had some terrific throws, but overall, didn't play well.
Odell should've scored 4 or 5 TDs. I would be surprised if he isn't returning punts the next 2 weeks.
Landon Collins had his worst game of the season.
The defense played well most of the game, although I was highly annoyed by how they let down after JPP's TD.
This defense is the most talented top to bottom of the Reese era. The offense has some talent and room for improvement. This team hasn't gotten a lot better in the turnover and penalty department. They're gonna win a lot of games.
Giants win another ugly one in Pitt next week knocking the rapist out of the game in the process. I'm sure there will be people complaining about the offense in that one too.
At the least at this point the season sure has been fun...
Based on the last couple of seasons... I sure didn’t expect us to be in the middle of a playoff run...
So yea... There’s a lot which could be improved upon... but its all good.
At the least at this point the season sure has been fun...
Based on the last couple of seasons... I sure didn’t expect us to be in the middle of a playoff run...
So yea... There’s a lot which could be improved upon... but its all good.
At the least at this point the season sure has been fun...
Based on the last couple of seasons... I sure didn’t expect us to be in the middle of a playoff run...
So yea... There’s a lot which could be improved upon... but its all good.
At the least at this point the season sure has been fun...
Based on the last couple of seasons... I sure didn’t expect us to be in the middle of a playoff run...
So yea... There’s a lot which could be improved upon... but its all good.
At the least at this point the season sure has been fun...
Based on the last couple of seasons... I sure didn’t expect us to be in the middle of a playoff run...
So yea... There’s a lot which could be improved upon... but its all good.
At the least at this point the season sure has been fun...
Based on the last couple of seasons... I sure didn’t expect us to be in the middle of a playoff run...
So yea... There’s a lot which could be improved upon... but its all good.
At the least at this point the season sure has been fun...
Based on the last couple of seasons... I sure didn’t expect us to be in the middle of a playoff run...
So yea... There’s a lot which could be improved upon... but its all good.
At the least at this point the season sure has been fun...
Based on the last couple of seasons... I sure didn’t expect us to be in the middle of a playoff run...
So yea... There’s a lot which could be improved upon... but its all good.
At the least at this point the season sure has been fun...
Based on the last couple of seasons... I sure didn’t expect us to be in the middle of a playoff run...
So yea... There’s a lot which could be improved upon... but its all good.
At the least at this point the season sure has been fun...
Based on the last couple of seasons... I sure didn’t expect us to be in the middle of a playoff run...
So yea... There’s a lot which could be improved upon... but its all good.
At the least at this point the season sure has been fun...
Based on the last couple of seasons... I sure didn’t expect us to be in the middle of a playoff run...
So yea... There’s a lot which could be improved upon... but its all good.
That makes play action more effective. He also attempted longer passes. Perhaps this is the beginning of McAdoo trusting the Oline a little more in pass protection. It might be the beginning of an offensive expansion.
Of course, it might only be that they felt they could get away with it against Cleveland.
It's fair to say 'what if you had a borderline HOF QB and a possible HOF WR, and a decent rookie WR, and a decent 3rd WR. and a 3.9 ypc rushing stat. wouldn't you think that would be a decent nucleus capable of putting up more than meh?'
It's fair to say 'what if you had a borderline HOF QB and a possible HOF WR, and a decent rookie WR, and a decent 3rd WR. and a 3.9 ypc rushing stat. wouldn't you think that would be a decent nucleus capable of putting up more than meh?'
Let me rephrase that... Other than a great QB and great WR, can you win with a couple of other WR's that can't get separation, no tight end, a mediocre to bad offensive line, and the 2nd worst run game in the NFL?
The defense has been playing great. No complaints.
Without Eli and OBJ, we have nothing. At least that's what it feels like to me. You want to see bad? Imagine what our offense looks like with Nassib in for Eli and Cruz starting for OBJ, with Lewis Jr. and Sheppard.
Without Montana and Rice, I bet those 49ers teams of the 80s wouldn't have been as good as they were.
I bet most teams aren't as good as they are without their 2 best players.
How about you and I save ourselves the 50 message exchange where you keep harping on it over and over, beating it to death by focusing one super small facet, that I've already conceded, while ignoring the larger point?
Deal?
How about you and I save ourselves the 50 message exchange where you keep harping on it over and over, beating it to death by focusing one super small facet, that I've already conceded, while ignoring the larger point?
Deal?
I haven't actually read the whole thread yet.
That comment stood out as not saying anything of substance, so I responded. If you've walked that back, that's fair.
All that said, this offense has enough talent at QB and WR and even RB to play much better than they have been overall. If they don't start playing better for sustained periods, they will be in trouble the rest of the way. The D is having a bigger impact right now. What happens if they have an off day?
I have also been one of Spags' biggest critics and I have to admit his D has looked much better the last several weeks. Then again, it does fit my description of him only looking good when he gets very good DL play. Right now, the DL is asserting itself against the run and pass, inside and out. IT also helps that this is the first year in a while the secondary seems to mostly all be on the same page in coverage.
As for the DL, they are playing very well of late. But, keep in mind they also have been playing some banged up and/or bad OLs. Then again, they played some banged up OLs earlier in the year and didn't exert themselves. So, them stepping up is still a good thing.
We have 2 tds of 35 yards or more other than beckam...and that was on a blocked field goal and a INT. that puts a ton of pressure on your qb to be perfect all the time. Yeah he missed some throws today. But our running backs averaged 3.3 yards per carry. Our #2 had 1 catch. Our slot guy had 0. And it's not like they were running free all day either.
He threw a perfect fade to cruz and then to harris for a TD. The seam pass to beckham was one of his best throes all year.
And he had ZERO turnovers. And contrary to belief the tipped ball by Ogbah wasn't even close to being intercepted despite BBI claiming it was.
15 TDs during this streak with only 2 rushing TDs. I think a lot of things need to get better... Eli not nearly being at the top of things.
Quote:
Game managers usually aren't making the only plays that are needed to win ie: 3 TD passes today. Game managers rely on a strong running game, not turning the ball over, and moving the chains through the air every now and then.
Without Eli and OBJ, we have nothing. At least that's what it feels like to me. You want to see bad? Imagine what our offense looks like with Nassib in for Eli and Cruz starting for OBJ, with Lewis Jr. and Sheppard.
Without Montana and Rice, I bet those 49ers teams of the 80s wouldn't have been as good as they were.
I bet most teams aren't as good as they are without their 2 best players.
For what it's worth, they won 2 of those Superbowls without Rice.
For the Giants, just get in the "tournament" as Parcells used to say, and take your chances.
Or 18-0. :o)
Eli is scrutinized because he's the franchise QB. His supporting cast outside of OBJ is below average but that doesn't mean it's acceptable to miss that many throws.
I think many fans overlook many of the things he does well like not taking sacks. But I see nothing wrong with pointing out he hasn't been sharp this year.
I'm hoping he finds his A game down the stretch. I think he will get hot at some point.
Quote:
Because other than obj, we have zero weapons with speed. Cruz and SS are possession receivers. Our tight ends are a joke. Jennings is slow. Perkins is very raw and inexperienced..
Eli is scrutinized because he's the franchise QB. His supporting cast outside of OBJ is below average but that doesn't mean it's acceptable to miss that many throws.
I think many fans overlook many of the things he does well like not taking sacks. But I see nothing wrong with pointing out he hasn't been sharp this year.
I'm hoping he finds his A game down the stretch. I think he will get hot at some point.
He's accounted for 83% of our tds during the 6 game streak. Must be doing something right.
The RB numbers rushing the last 3 games
24-118
25-101
24-84
Having a defense the staff knows can make stops, changes how you call plays.
I honestly don't think the last 2 weeks the Giants felt at all threatened by the offenses they had to play
Beckham is really the only WR who can get deep, and teams are always guarding agains that with safety help over the top against him. Cruz can't get deep anymore. He's caught a few long passes, but his lack of separation is obvious. It took nearly perfect throws by Eli to get him the ball on those plays. Shepard is a slot receiver. Maybe Lewis can get deep later on this season, but that doesn't seem likely.
Eli is therefore often throwing against six or seven defenders, into tight windows, even at the second level. His pass protection at times has also been shaky.
But his accuracy and arm strength seem to have declined. Eli has taken a lot of hits over his career. He's also been lucky that a few passes were intercepted, including two against the Bears.
I'd like to see fewer shotgun draws with Jennings, and more runs by Perkins, especially around the end. Flare passes to the RBs and flanker screens to OBJ and Shepard would also be a good way of compensating for the lack of a run game.
Nassib is likely gone after this year. The fact that the Giants brought in Johnson strongly suggests that they are ready to move on as well. We should start thinking about Eli's replacement. It's not a good draft for QBs, but Davis Webb of California is somebody they might want to consider.
But every now and then Eli does a little shuffle in pocket, finds OBJ and he is off to the races. Nothing else to say other than it is what is with these guys...
Defense really turning up the intensity big time, particularly the D-line. Have no idea why we just didn't go man-to-man on Prior as there was nothing else that Cleveland team could do. Adams is still being targeted as FS.. he is either so deep he can't help over the middle or gets caught looking in the backfield like on the goal line deep pass.
8-3 nevertheless. See you in Pittsburgh...
Because we don't score when we have gone into a shell. We didn't score after we tool the lead against the bears. And the only offensive score today was a big eli throw to obj then a td to obj.
When I read comments like this, it makes me wonder if Giants fans watch any other games other than the Giants. The fact is, every team has drives stall; every team has stretches where they let an inferior team hang with them. If the Giants had jumped out to 14-0 lead right away and then traded 3-and-outs with Cleveland for a quarter, you'd barely notice it. If they'd have jumped out to a 27-0 lead, we'd all be jumping for joy, and then if Cleveland crept back to 27-13 late in the game, that joy would turn to anger.
The fact is, we went on the road against a desperate team, handled their best, and then continued to pull away as our defense really stepped up in front of our very eyes. This is far from a perfect team by any stretch, but it's a team being led by a rookie head coach who just surpassed the win totals of each of the past three seasons and did so in just 11 games.
If you were expecting an overnight transformation into a dominant contender, maybe your expectations were too high. But they are a contender, albeit flawed. Still, a contender as we head into December, with the second-best record in the conference thus far.
Quote:
To keep him returning punts. I don't care what the trade off is, not worth the risk
That was my first thought too. Maybe in a playoff game or something but not now.
This is ridiculous. Deion Sanders was every bit the dominant player that Beckham is, although on the other side of the ball. Antonio Brown is every bit the WR that Beckham is. Both of them were/are as important to their teams as OBJ is to ours.
Use your best players in the best possible way to help your team win.
That alone had me thinking we were screwed, and we did just fine. No points for style, but the win counts regardless.
JPP is trying to get OV money.
Eli had some terrific throws, but overall, didn't play well.
Odell should've scored 4 or 5 TDs. I would be surprised if he isn't returning punts the next 2 weeks.
Landon Collins had his worst game of the season.
The defense played well most of the game, although I was highly annoyed by how they let down after JPP's TD.
This defense is the most talented top to bottom of the Reese era. The offense has some talent and room for improvement. This team hasn't gotten a lot better in the turnover and penalty department. They're gonna win a lot of games.
Giants win another ugly one in Pitt next week knocking the rapist out of the game in the process. I'm sure there will be people complaining about the offense in that one too.
Based on the last couple of seasons... I sure didn’t expect us to be in the middle of a playoff run...
So yea... There’s a lot which could be improved upon... but its all good.
Based on the last couple of seasons... I sure didn’t expect us to be in the middle of a playoff run...
So yea... There’s a lot which could be improved upon... but its all good.
Based on the last couple of seasons... I sure didn’t expect us to be in the middle of a playoff run...
So yea... There’s a lot which could be improved upon... but its all good.
Based on the last couple of seasons... I sure didn’t expect us to be in the middle of a playoff run...
So yea... There’s a lot which could be improved upon... but its all good.
Based on the last couple of seasons... I sure didn’t expect us to be in the middle of a playoff run...
So yea... There’s a lot which could be improved upon... but its all good.
Based on the last couple of seasons... I sure didn’t expect us to be in the middle of a playoff run...
So yea... There’s a lot which could be improved upon... but its all good.
Based on the last couple of seasons... I sure didn’t expect us to be in the middle of a playoff run...
So yea... There’s a lot which could be improved upon... but its all good.
Based on the last couple of seasons... I sure didn’t expect us to be in the middle of a playoff run...
So yea... There’s a lot which could be improved upon... but its all good.
Based on the last couple of seasons... I sure didn’t expect us to be in the middle of a playoff run...
So yea... There’s a lot which could be improved upon... but its all good.
Based on the last couple of seasons... I sure didn’t expect us to be in the middle of a playoff run...
So yea... There’s a lot which could be improved upon... but its all good.
Based on the last couple of seasons... I sure didn’t expect us to be in the middle of a playoff run...
So yea... There’s a lot which could be improved upon... but its all good.
Of course, it might only be that they felt they could get away with it against Cleveland.