Should once again be fired from a job. What kind of cheerleading BS was that?! How can fox let a guy openly root for a team like that? Yea yea, I know we won. That was just brutal I'm sorry.
so from that perspective, we got it done. Defense looked good for the most part with the exception of when Spags would just sit back without pressuring the QB.
Offense is really concerning to me. Eli's play lately not what we expect and not what will get it done in the playoffs. He needs to improve. Perkins has more burst than Jennings. At some point we will need to hand over the keys to the car to him.
Really odd that Shepard and Tye were invisible today but yet we kept forcing it to Lewis. I really don't get it.
Do you ever wonder about the guys who he's throwing to, or handing off to outside of Beckham? When was the last time you saw Cruz get any separation? Where was Sheppard today other than the end around?
Eli threw 3 TD's and didn't turn it over. If feels like he's bearing the brunt of all of the other players ineptitude.
so from that perspective, we got it done. Defense looked good for the most part with the exception of when Spags would just sit back without pressuring the QB.
Offense is really concerning to me. Eli's play lately not what we expect and not what will get it done in the playoffs. He needs to improve. Perkins has more burst than Jennings. At some point we will need to hand over the keys to the car to him.
Really odd that Shepard and Tye were invisible today but yet we kept forcing it to Lewis. I really don't get it.
Eli has 15 TDs in the 6 game win streak and once again, the ball was taken out of his hands once we had the lead in the 2nd half. Mind you we have 1 receiver who gets open.
I'd blame Mcadoo for the predictable run and shell o he loves to get into with a lead first and foremost. But Eli missed a lot of throws and the several bombs away sequence in the second half with no targets to Shepard --some of that falls on him.
I'm in agreement with EricJ. Offense was explosive at times today but was mostly bad.
Do you ever wonder about the guys who he's throwing to, or handing off to outside of Beckham? When was the last time you saw Cruz get any separation? Where was Sheppard today other than the end around?
Eli threw 3 TD's and didn't turn it over. If feels like he's bearing the brunt of all of the other players ineptitude.
This must be a joke post. Did you watch the damn game?
I'm back on forth on Vereen coming back. I think Perkins gives us more potential for bigger plays, and would love to see him develop during this stretch run.
Do you ever wonder about the guys who he's throwing to, or handing off to outside of Beckham? When was the last time you saw Cruz get any separation? Where was Sheppard today other than the end around?
Eli threw 3 TD's and didn't turn it over. If feels like he's bearing the brunt of all of the other players ineptitude.
+1
Some of the younger guys complaining, I have no idea who that is, would have been destroying Simms back in the 80's.
Do you ever wonder about the guys who he's throwing to, or handing off to outside of Beckham? When was the last time you saw Cruz get any separation? Where was Sheppard today other than the end around?
Eli threw 3 TD's and didn't turn it over. If feels like he's bearing the brunt of all of the other players ineptitude.
+1
Some of the younger guys complaining, I have no idea who that is, would have been destroying Simms back in the 80's.
This isn't the game to praise Eli. Stop it. This was a game to praise the defense for carrying the team. And you and Britt are better posters than this. You know better.
Eli has 15 TDs in the 6 game win streak and once again, the ball was taken out of his hands once we had the lead in the 2nd half. Mind you we have 1 receiver who gets open.
Oh I agree that the play calling is horrible even before we got the lead. No question. I will challenge you on the 1 WR who gets open. There are times when I am watching, I rewind and see him throw into tight coverage and I can see another WR open. Maybe there is 1 open but he is not throwing to that guy. I don't know who is responsible for the poor decisions to go way down field when we need just a few yards. I am laying that on both McAdoo and Eli since we don't know and it is on one or both of them to make a better decision there.
He made some nice throws today and I know I mentioned each one of them in the game thread. The bottom line though is if we want to go deep into the playoffs he needs to play better. ...period.
Figured he could beat a not very good corner 1 on 1. He did at least once, but Manning under threw it. Beckham had Hayden beat on the first series, too, but Manning under threw it.
I hope OBJ's return for a (nullified) TD doesn't encourage coaches Â
Do you ever wonder about the guys who he's throwing to, or handing off to outside of Beckham? When was the last time you saw Cruz get any separation? Where was Sheppard today other than the end around?
Eli threw 3 TD's and didn't turn it over. If feels like he's bearing the brunt of all of the other players ineptitude.
+1
Some of the younger guys complaining, I have no idea who that is, would have been destroying Simms back in the 80's.
This isn't the game to praise Eli. Stop it. This was a game to praise the defense for carrying the team. And you and Britt are better posters than this. You know better.
I'm back on forth on Vereen coming back. I think Perkins gives us more potential for bigger plays, and would love to see him develop during this stretch run.
In a Vereen thread I mentioned something similar. Do we really want to have a 3 back rotation now? I sure don't. Would rather see it be a 2 back thing between Perkins and Vereen. Are we afraid to lose Jennings' production? Shit, you can call forward on your face 20 times per game and match his production.
But pulled it together in the 2nd with some good kicks. Our kicking game is very weak though. Not as big a concern as the command and control aspect of our offense.
Next two games are tough. Have to play real strong in all aspects to win both.
RE: I hope OBJ's return for a (nullified) TD doesn't encourage coaches Â
Do you ever wonder about the guys who he's throwing to, or handing off to outside of Beckham? When was the last time you saw Cruz get any separation? Where was Sheppard today other than the end around?
Eli threw 3 TD's and didn't turn it over. If feels like he's bearing the brunt of all of the other players ineptitude.
+1
Some of the younger guys complaining, I have no idea who that is, would have been destroying Simms back in the 80's.
This isn't the game to praise Eli. Stop it. This was a game to praise the defense for carrying the team. And you and Britt are better posters than this. You know better.
Are we praising him or defending him?
I get your point but who is exactly going nuts on Eli? They are pointing out the issues he had today. I'm not sure why he would need defending from that.
Do you ever wonder about the guys who he's throwing to, or handing off to outside of Beckham? When was the last time you saw Cruz get any separation? Where was Sheppard today other than the end around?
Eli threw 3 TD's and didn't turn it over. If feels like he's bearing the brunt of all of the other players ineptitude.
+1
Some of the younger guys complaining, I have no idea who that is, would have been destroying Simms back in the 80's.
This isn't the game to praise Eli. Stop it. This was a game to praise the defense for carrying the team. And you and Britt are better posters than this. You know better.
Nobody's praising him. Just saying maybe others around may need to pick it up too. On this site, if you're not out right shitting on Eli, it means you're an apologist. There is a middle ground.
Hasn't given up 30 all season. I didn't check every single year, but I couldn't find a Giants team in history who went their first 11 games able to say this. I didn't go every year from 1925 onward of course, but I checked the Parcells era and that wasn't done by any of those teams. I'm not comparing defenses, just saying this is a great feat
We are so incredibly lucky to have OBJ. Another week another show. That's without mentioning all the big plays left out there like his punt return TD called back, and the couple times Eli missed him for potential big ones. Eli was good today though and is now suddenly 2:1 in TD to int this season.
JPP. Nothing else needs to be said about him. Monster. He has been terrific all season, it's nice to see the stats catching up
Cruz is lucky to have ever come back from injury, and he's lost several steps in his return. He's still serviceable, and can make a play once or twice a game like he did today to justify his position, but he's a shade of his former self.
We have the 2nd worse run game in the NFL. Period. Point blank. The other team knows we have to throw it and plays their safeties back every game. Even with this advantage, we still can't run the ball consistently.
The offensive line is mediocre at best, and that's BEFORE being down 2 starters today.
As it has been the past two years, Eli Manning and OBJ are the only reason we are in a lot of games. Like today. Nobody else steps up.
I'm sorry some of you need to scapegoat one player, but it's a much bigger problem than one player, and has been for years.
Eli can still play at a high level, and IMO, is one of the reasons we're on a 6 game winning streak, rather than a detriment to it.
Do you ever wonder about the guys who he's throwing to, or handing off to outside of Beckham? When was the last time you saw Cruz get any separation? Where was Sheppard today other than the end around?
Eli threw 3 TD's and didn't turn it over. If feels like he's bearing the brunt of all of the other players ineptitude.
Britt,
No doubt but Eli bears a lot too. He's made some brutal throws and misses and his audibles in some spots take us right out of a chance to get a 1st or sustain drives. He made some big throws but he had long stretches of suck today too. THere was six or seven throws where he had a receiver wide open and beat and he flat out missed and missed badly. Good news is he's kept the turnovers in check.
I still love Eli but he's had some bizarre spurts this year. Very up and down in games. Arm strength too which worries me a bit in harsher winter weather.
and I'm not sure why he was forcing it downfield to Lewis so much. Seemed weird.
I didn't like how much they were forcing the run in the second half, but they were clearly leaning on the defense.
You can get away with wasting possessions forcing the run (to no avail) vs the Browns. McAdoo can't afford that shit over the final 5 weeks.
.
Missed Beckham on the first series, he had two yards on Haden down the sideline, good throw a TD. Later, Haden got
away with a PI, BUT Eli was late throwing the ball.
Eli had a bad first quarter, this offense leaves a lot
to be desired right now. They were outgained by the Brownies. Thankfully the defense showed up, another win.
Now it will get interesting the rest of the way.
We didn't have bad Eli, and maybe the wind was pushing the ball around, but some ugly passes thrown today. Just inconsistent with the ball, especially deep. Seems the only one capable of making the catch deep is Cruz.
Lewis will only catch one ball per game - the rest clunk off his facemask. So get him his on catch and get him off the field.
There is nothing more useless than a DT dropping into coverage instead of rushing - unless Eli is throwing a pass. He seems to find him.
Holding call on Herzlich on OBJ's punt return was pretty poor IMHO.
JPP is getting paid. He'll be getting OV money by somebody. I hope it is the Giants, but $30 mill for 2 DE's???
Matt Millen is awful.
RE: RE: I hope OBJ's return for a (nullified) TD doesn't encourage coaches Â
To keep him returning punts. I don't care what the trade off is, not worth the risk
That was my first thought too. Maybe in a playoff game or something but not now.
McAdoo asked about that... Said OBJ is "electric" on the return & you want to put the ball in your best players hands... I really hope that's not an indication they'll keep him back there.
in the skill positions. Perkins has a nice change of pace and Sheppard isn't slow but there's not much pace. If we could threaten to take the top off the defense or seriously attack the seam then it'd open up so much more.
Lineman and a big receiver and te and back have to be addressed in offseason. Much bigger though is Mcadoo calling plays. He's not good. Maybe he needs to give up calling games and it will pick up....
Glad the d is awesome. It's going to get better as time goes on .....
RE: RE: RE: I hope OBJ's return for a (nullified) TD doesn't encourage coaches Â
To keep him returning punts. I don't care what the trade off is, not worth the risk
That was my first thought too. Maybe in a playoff game or something but not now.
McAdoo asked about that... Said OBJ is "electric" on the return & you want to put the ball in your best players hands... I really hope that's not an indication they'll keep him back there.
I don't think the Sehorn debacle will ever be erased from fans' minds.
another rough game, penalty, long completion, and another
penalty on a punt return. Since Perkins had a penalty on
the same punt return, Browns took the one on Perkins.
It was a run down the sideline by ODB, not the 'TD'.
(Herz had the penalty on the punt return TD, that wasn't).
I hope Apple is okay, but I didn't mind he was off the field
late in the game. Too many rookie mistakes with him.
I know he's a rookie, might cost them at some point.
on with Shepard. This was the type of game he should've ran wild in. He's an NFL player but he's not having the impact you'd expect after all the hype.
But who knows- part of it is McAdoo.
Try to look at it from an opposing team viewpoint for a second.... Â
To keep him returning punts. I don't care what the trade off is, not worth the risk
That was my first thought too. Maybe in a playoff game or something but not now.
McAdoo asked about that... Said OBJ is "electric" on the return & you want to put the ball in your best players hands... I really hope that's not an indication they'll keep him back there.
I don't think the Sehorn debacle will ever be erased from fans' minds.
.
I know huh....Harris has had 3 muffs, and now Rainey had one, no surprise with Rainey. Doesn't Antonio Brown return
punts for the Steelers? I want somebody who can catch
the damn ball, first and foremost.
To keep him returning punts. I don't care what the trade off is, not worth the risk
That was my first thought too. Maybe in a playoff game or something but not now.
McAdoo asked about that... Said OBJ is "electric" on the return & you want to put the ball in your best players hands... I really hope that's not an indication they'll keep him back there.
I don't think the Sehorn debacle will ever be erased from fans' minds.
Honestly... NO. But thats not it. When you have a FA signed mostly, if not totally to be a returner, thats an unnecessary risk for the best player the team has had since LT
The No call on OBJ was infuriating the as was BS call on his punt
return . We gifted them with Raniny's fumbled punt and the ref,s crap calls .
We really need to get Pugh and Newhouse back we had 13
total 1st downs and the TOP was ridiculous seldom do we have game controlling drives we still can't run the damn ball.
Thankfully the Browns mad enough mistakes and the Defense
Bailed the team out . No patsies the rest of the way .
Next three games against division leaders then two road
games vs division foes . I was mystified late when were at
or near the 50 needing 5-6 yards and we throw 3 deep throws
JPP and Snacks were money ..
and I'm not sure why he was forcing it downfield to Lewis so much. Seemed weird.
I didn't like how much they were forcing the run in the second half, but they were clearly leaning on the defense.
I think it may have just been a matter of trying to back the D off the line, since the running game wasn't doing it.
This guy gets it. This team is still Eli, Beckham and not much else. Eli and McAdoo have been doing all sorts of shit to keep defenses honest and manufacture offense.
Just keep grinding on offense. If Harris is getting healthier, I think he should take some reps away from Cruz and Lewis on the outside. We could use a physical presence to complement OBJ and Shepard. Add in Pugh and Vereen down the stretch and pray that's enough.
I would hardly call Apple's "block in the back" a penalty Â
On the first drive, no doubt. That throw he has to make. But when your 2nd and 3rd and long. Your defense is playing well. They always go into a shell.
Look at the first three plays of the 2nd half. Draw to jennings, screen to jennings, draw to jrnnings.
Just keep grinding on offense. If Harris is getting healthier, I think he should take some reps away from Cruz and Lewis on the outside. We could use a physical presence to complement OBJ and Shepard. Add in Pugh and Vereen down the stretch and pray that's enough.
.
Shepard wasn't targeted once, one touch on end around.
Cruz can't get separation playing on the outside.
You have two slot receivers here now.
during the return...nor would I have called Perkins's...it was some ticky tack bullshit. I wouldn't even have called Herzlich's.
Refs called them, all that is relevant.
Whether psople think it is ticky tack, is not relevant.
Folks whine about officials after every game I have noticed!
Agree. Those were soft calls, almost like the refs were trying to keep the game competitive.
Yep, I love Victor but he's not a good outside receiver. Â
We beat them by 2 TDs. Regardless of records, these things are never a given. As I am writing this the Patriots trail the Jets 10-0. They had a job today, they did it. 8-3 with a balling defense and an offense that I still believe has higher upside than they've shown. The NFL is wide open. Tampa is housing the Seahawks early on today, we would actually have the 2nd best record in the NFC if that holds (even though it doesn't work that way seeding wise). I'm just happy that the team is in this position after being down the way we have for a few years. You appreciate things more and I find it tough to nitpick wins like this
On the first drive, no doubt. That throw he has to make. But when your 2nd and 3rd and long. Your defense is playing well. They always go into a shell.
Look at the first three plays of the 2nd half. Draw to jennings, screen to jennings, draw to jrnnings.
Unreal.
And they were in long down/distance a fair number of times because he was awful on the deep throw.
And you're also conveniently forgetting that Eli checks out of a lot of plays. So just stop with this "Eli had the ball taken out of his hands" nonsense...
and the one "good" thing about being in these knock down, drag out ugly games rather than some pretty blow out types. As the season moves along, games get tighter and not as clean, particularly in the playoffs. The Giants are used to playing in these, and have been winning these. Teams who are used to taking big leads and enjoying everything go their way, tend to panic when they are in tight games. Look at the Packers vs. the Giants in the 2011 playoffs. When things started to not go their way, they fell apart. This isn't the NFL from 20-30 years ago. A 15-1 or 14-2 team now is not as dominant as a team with that record in the 1980s. There really is little difference between a 15-1 and 10-6 or 9-7 team.
For the Giants, just get in the "tournament" as Parcells used to say, and take your chances.
be any problem with Beckham returning punts. He had over 100 yds on returns w/o the penalties...He's not Sehorn and its punts not kickoffs.
I was very critical of OBJ defending the Hail Mary but I agree there should be little concern with him returning punts. He can take the ball to the house every time he touches it so you get him the touches and enjoy the show.
of course this offense has a higher upside. a lot higher. If they get their act together, this is a team to reckon with. the problem is that there's limited reason for confidence that they'll get their act together. all year, they've been meh at best.
RE: Yep, I love Victor but he's not a good outside receiver. Â
up the Browns. The Browns had way too much time to throw and the Giants got burned more than once. The offense is going to have to play much, much better in the next 5 games other wise the playoffs could be a distant memory!
a big bodied WR in the first 3 rounds plz, along with an OL!
I would also like to see another pass rushing D Lineman.
That's what I would like to see, long way to there though.
I've got a feeling they are going to have to make a choice
between JPP, and Hankins. Just a gut feeling.
On the first drive, no doubt. That throw he has to make. But when your 2nd and 3rd and long. Your defense is playing well. They always go into a shell.
Look at the first three plays of the 2nd half. Draw to jennings, screen to jennings, draw to jrnnings.
Unreal.
And they were in long down/distance a fair number of times because he was awful on the deep throw.
And you're also conveniently forgetting that Eli checks out of a lot of plays. So just stop with this "Eli had the ball taken out of his hands" nonsense...
I would try to explain why he audibles into a run but I am not sure you would understand.
And can you give a precise number of times he has audibled into a run? Sometimes he is giving a dummy call as well.
Anyone that thinks he shouldn't get the same contact Vernon did, isn't watching. Problem is some team like the Browns with 115 Million in salary cap space is going higher.
All you people who said we should cut him last year for an accident, turn in your BBI membership and never post again. You're proven idiots.
take the win and be happy with the 8-3 mark, but dont be fooled by it. Â
they are still a flawed team, mainly in the OL. They cant run, and now they have a problem at kicker too.
I agree with David in LA and others that too much is being made of Vereen's return. Perkins can catch it too, and he's a much better runner. I don't want to see Perkins give up reps for Vereen
there isn't a chance (unless you have really bad vision) you see a HOF QB.
Eli was directly responsible for a lot of bad plays.
As with most of the year, the D was more responsible than the O for a win.
Blame everyone else all you want, Eli is marginally more part of the problem than part of the solution these days.
i think this is one of those things where we are all going to see what we want to see and nothing more. In my case, I see Eli covering for a lot of suck around him, whether in his receiver ability and separation, routes being run, time in the pocket, and even the running game. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't and he looks bad while minimizing everyone else's suck. Interspersed with that are failures due to him which are the same failures that everyone else, Brady, his brother, whoever also had. He's not worse than them or than he himself ever was, but he can't always cover for everyone else.
RE: take the win and be happy with the 8-3 mark, but dont be fooled by it. Â
they are still a flawed team, mainly in the OL. They cant run, and now they have a problem at kicker too.
I agree with David in LA and others that too much is being made of Vereen's return. Perkins can catch it too, and he's a much better runner. I don't want to see Perkins give up reps for Vereen
Vereen was responsible for two costly turnovers the past two Skins games.
the hill gets steeper now and cannot count of the defense to set us up to win games with better opponents. Not sure why this offense is hot and cold but needs consistency to get beyond the rest of the opponents on our schedule.
RE: RE: Yep, I love Victor but he's not a good outside receiver. Â
As great as Dallas has been (and we beat them), check the numbers opposing QBs have against them this season. Everyone is imperfect. The Giants certainly are as well, but that held true in 2007 and 2011 as well. I'm it saying lightning will strike a 3rd time, but at this moment in time as we enter December a potential SB run is no more improbable than it was at this time in those 2 seasons
there isn't a chance (unless you have really bad vision) you see a HOF QB.
Eli was directly responsible for a lot of bad plays.
As with most of the year, the D was more responsible than the O for a win.
Blame everyone else all you want, Eli is marginally more part of the problem than part of the solution these days.
i think this is one of those things where we are all going to see what we want to see and nothing more. In my case, I see Eli covering for a lot of suck around him, whether in his receiver ability and separation, routes being run, time in the pocket, and even the running game. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't and he looks bad while minimizing everyone else's suck. Interspersed with that are failures due to him which are the same failures that everyone else, Brady, his brother, whoever also had. He's not worse than them or than he himself ever was, but he can't always cover for everyone else.
I'm glad I'm not alone in seeing it this way. Nice to see you, and others, with the same view.
get ready for back to back primetime nbc games in weeks 14 and 15 as the detroit game is a near certainty to be flexed to snf unless fox protected it back in week 4 or 5 when protections are due.Cincinnati-Pitt will be returned to cbs 1pm
another rough game, penalty, long completion, and another
penalty on a punt return. Since Perkins had a penalty on
the same punt return, Browns took the one on Perkins.
It was a run down the sideline by ODB, not the 'TD'.
(Herz had the penalty on the punt return TD, that wasn't).
I hope Apple is okay, but I didn't mind he was off the field
late in the game. Too many rookie mistakes with him.
I know he's a rookie, might cost them at some point.
the penalty on apple on the return with questionable at best
he put up monster numbers these past two years and we sucked. This year we have a defense and we're relying on it - if he's more of a game manager, so be it. Hopefully the offense gets rolling late the way the defense did in 2011. Lot of football left.
Problem is that there is not offense to manage... Â
Game managers usually aren't making the only plays that are needed to win ie: 3 TD passes today. Game managers rely on a strong running game, not turning the ball over, and moving the chains through the air every now and then.
Without Eli and OBJ, we have nothing. At least that's what it feels like to me. You want to see bad? Imagine what our offense looks like with Nassib in for Eli and Cruz starting for OBJ, with Lewis Jr. and Sheppard.
to say 'imagine if the franchise QB is replaced by a guy who has never started and shows no sign of ever being anything but an emergency starter, and imagine if a likely franchise WR isn't there'.
It's fair to say 'what if you had a borderline HOF QB and a possible HOF WR, and a decent rookie WR, and a decent 3rd WR. and a 3.9 ypc rushing stat. wouldn't you think that would be a decent nucleus capable of putting up more than meh?'
to say 'imagine if the franchise QB is replaced by a guy who has never started and shows no sign of ever being anything but an emergency starter, and imagine if a likely franchise WR isn't there'.
It's fair to say 'what if you had a borderline HOF QB and a possible HOF WR, and a decent rookie WR, and a decent 3rd WR. and a 3.9 ypc rushing stat. wouldn't you think that would be a decent nucleus capable of putting up more than meh?'
Let me rephrase that... Other than a great QB and great WR, can you win with a couple of other WR's that can't get separation, no tight end, a mediocre to bad offensive line, and the 2nd worst run game in the NFL?
Game managers usually aren't making the only plays that are needed to win ie: 3 TD passes today. Game managers rely on a strong running game, not turning the ball over, and moving the chains through the air every now and then.
Without Eli and OBJ, we have nothing. At least that's what it feels like to me. You want to see bad? Imagine what our offense looks like with Nassib in for Eli and Cruz starting for OBJ, with Lewis Jr. and Sheppard.
Without Montana and Rice, I bet those 49ers teams of the 80s wouldn't have been as good as they were.
I bet most teams aren't as good as they are without their 2 best players.
I've said that was a dumb way to state my point and now also rephrased Â
How about you and I save ourselves the 50 message exchange where you keep harping on it over and over, beating it to death by focusing one super small facet, that I've already conceded, while ignoring the larger point?
How about you and I save ourselves the 50 message exchange where you keep harping on it over and over, beating it to death by focusing one super small facet, that I've already conceded, while ignoring the larger point?
Deal?
I haven't actually read the whole thread yet.
That comment stood out as not saying anything of substance, so I responded. If you've walked that back, that's fair.
it's not about fantasy stats. it's about needing an offense that can carry it's share of the load. We can beat the bottom half of the league as is, but we're not going anywhere as is. this offense should be better than it is, with the same players.
I am going to disagree on the block in the back penalty Â
I thought the one on Apple was questionable, but Perkins got both hands on the back of the Browns player and pushed. It wasn't a bug shove, but it was a clear block in the back none the less.
I love Eli, but won't pretend he is playing great. Â
On the other hand, I also don't think he is playing poorly. He missed some throws deep he should and normally would make. But, he also completed 3 TD passes and some other big throws. He also controls the game better than any other QB in the league right now in terms of reading the D, setting the offense, audibles, etc.
All that said, this offense has enough talent at QB and WR and even RB to play much better than they have been overall. If they don't start playing better for sustained periods, they will be in trouble the rest of the way. The D is having a bigger impact right now. What happens if they have an off day?
I have also been one of Spags' biggest critics and I have to admit his D has looked much better the last several weeks. Then again, it does fit my description of him only looking good when he gets very good DL play. Right now, the DL is asserting itself against the run and pass, inside and out. IT also helps that this is the first year in a while the secondary seems to mostly all be on the same page in coverage.
The hold on the OBJ punt return for the TD, unlike the block in the back, seemed like a BS call. The Browns player seemed to run over Herzlich, who was falling backwards. Herzlich did not appear to grab the Browns player and pull him down.
As for the DL, they are playing very well of late. But, keep in mind they also have been playing some banged up and/or bad OLs. Then again, they played some banged up OLs earlier in the year and didn't exert themselves. So, them stepping up is still a good thing.
Because other than obj, we have zero weapons with speed. Cruz and SS are possession receivers. Our tight ends are a joke. Jennings is slow. Perkins is very raw and inexperienced.
We have 2 tds of 35 yards or more other than beckam...and that was on a blocked field goal and a INT. that puts a ton of pressure on your qb to be perfect all the time. Yeah he missed some throws today. But our running backs averaged 3.3 yards per carry. Our #2 had 1 catch. Our slot guy had 0. And it's not like they were running free all day either.
He threw a perfect fade to cruz and then to harris for a TD. The seam pass to beckham was one of his best throes all year.
And he had ZERO turnovers. And contrary to belief the tipped ball by Ogbah wasn't even close to being intercepted despite BBI claiming it was.
15 TDs during this streak with only 2 rushing TDs. I think a lot of things need to get better... Eli not nearly being at the top of things.
I was set to think Eli was going to have an off day Â
Game managers usually aren't making the only plays that are needed to win ie: 3 TD passes today. Game managers rely on a strong running game, not turning the ball over, and moving the chains through the air every now and then.
Without Eli and OBJ, we have nothing. At least that's what it feels like to me. You want to see bad? Imagine what our offense looks like with Nassib in for Eli and Cruz starting for OBJ, with Lewis Jr. and Sheppard.
Without Montana and Rice, I bet those 49ers teams of the 80s wouldn't have been as good as they were.
I bet most teams aren't as good as they are without their 2 best players.
For what it's worth, they won 2 of those Superbowls without Rice.
and the one "good" thing about being in these knock down, drag out ugly games rather than some pretty blow out types. As the season moves along, games get tighter and not as clean, particularly in the playoffs. The Giants are used to playing in these, and have been winning these. Teams who are used to taking big leads and enjoying everything go their way, tend to panic when they are in tight games. Look at the Packers vs. the Giants in the 2011 playoffs. When things started to not go their way, they fell apart. This isn't the NFL from 20-30 years ago. A 15-1 or 14-2 team now is not as dominant as a team with that record in the 1980s. There really is little difference between a 15-1 and 10-6 or 9-7 team.
For the Giants, just get in the "tournament" as Parcells used to say, and take your chances.
Because other than obj, we have zero weapons with speed. Cruz and SS are possession receivers. Our tight ends are a joke. Jennings is slow. Perkins is very raw and inexperienced..
Eli is scrutinized because he's the franchise QB. His supporting cast outside of OBJ is below average but that doesn't mean it's acceptable to miss that many throws.
I think many fans overlook many of the things he does well like not taking sacks. But I see nothing wrong with pointing out he hasn't been sharp this year.
I'm hoping he finds his A game down the stretch. I think he will get hot at some point.
Because other than obj, we have zero weapons with speed. Cruz and SS are possession receivers. Our tight ends are a joke. Jennings is slow. Perkins is very raw and inexperienced..
Eli is scrutinized because he's the franchise QB. His supporting cast outside of OBJ is below average but that doesn't mean it's acceptable to miss that many throws.
I think many fans overlook many of the things he does well like not taking sacks. But I see nothing wrong with pointing out he hasn't been sharp this year.
I'm hoping he finds his A game down the stretch. I think he will get hot at some point.
He's accounted for 83% of our tds during the 6 game streak. Must be doing something right.
He missed some throws and made some .. biggest thing I saw was they took a lot of shots deep. His protection was good. I think a lot of this was to prepare for the rest of the season.
The RB numbers rushing the last 3 games
24-118
25-101
24-84
Having a defense the staff knows can make stops, changes how you call plays.
I honestly don't think the last 2 weeks the Giants felt at all threatened by the offenses they had to play
is handicapped by zero run game, which means that teams play their safeties back in some type of Cover 2 shell. It's almost impossible to throw deep against that defense.
Beckham is really the only WR who can get deep, and teams are always guarding agains that with safety help over the top against him. Cruz can't get deep anymore. He's caught a few long passes, but his lack of separation is obvious. It took nearly perfect throws by Eli to get him the ball on those plays. Shepard is a slot receiver. Maybe Lewis can get deep later on this season, but that doesn't seem likely.
Eli is therefore often throwing against six or seven defenders, into tight windows, even at the second level. His pass protection at times has also been shaky.
But his accuracy and arm strength seem to have declined. Eli has taken a lot of hits over his career. He's also been lucky that a few passes were intercepted, including two against the Bears.
I'd like to see fewer shotgun draws with Jennings, and more runs by Perkins, especially around the end. Flare passes to the RBs and flanker screens to OBJ and Shepard would also be a good way of compensating for the lack of a run game.
Nassib is likely gone after this year. The fact that the Giants brought in Johnson strongly suggests that they are ready to move on as well. We should start thinking about Eli's replacement. It's not a good draft for QBs, but Davis Webb of California is somebody they might want to consider.
We are still kind of a train-wreck on Offense. Mostly cannot get Â
out of our own way for about 1/2 of the game with drops, bad passes, penalties. Did Shepard even play today? When are we going to let Perkins play more as there were some decent holes but Jennings is too god awful slow to get thru them.
But every now and then Eli does a little shuffle in pocket, finds OBJ and he is off to the races. Nothing else to say other than it is what is with these guys...
Defense really turning up the intensity big time, particularly the D-line. Have no idea why we just didn't go man-to-man on Prior as there was nothing else that Cleveland team could do. Adams is still being targeted as FS.. he is either so deep he can't help over the middle or gets caught looking in the backfield like on the goal line deep pass.
...Giants are flawed wake up everyone is flawed. Did you expect a 2008 January - November version of NYG this season? I know this is a forum for discussion but shit... enjoy this a little bit.
Why is running when leading a bad thing? I have no issue with playing a safe, ball control game with lead. It's playing to the strength of the team and a sound strategy to get a W. That's more important than Eli's stats.
Why is running when leading a bad thing? I have no issue with playing a safe, ball control game with lead. It's playing to the strength of the team and a sound strategy to get a W. That's more important than Eli's stats.
Because we don't score when we have gone into a shell. We didn't score after we tool the lead against the bears. And the only offensive score today was a big eli throw to obj then a td to obj.
RE: I'm sorry that was another shit again against an awful opponent Â
This team isn't very good. I couldn't tell which team was 0-11 the vast majority of the game.
When I read comments like this, it makes me wonder if Giants fans watch any other games other than the Giants. The fact is, every team has drives stall; every team has stretches where they let an inferior team hang with them. If the Giants had jumped out to 14-0 lead right away and then traded 3-and-outs with Cleveland for a quarter, you'd barely notice it. If they'd have jumped out to a 27-0 lead, we'd all be jumping for joy, and then if Cleveland crept back to 27-13 late in the game, that joy would turn to anger.
The fact is, we went on the road against a desperate team, handled their best, and then continued to pull away as our defense really stepped up in front of our very eyes. This is far from a perfect team by any stretch, but it's a team being led by a rookie head coach who just surpassed the win totals of each of the past three seasons and did so in just 11 games.
If you were expecting an overnight transformation into a dominant contender, maybe your expectations were too high. But they are a contender, albeit flawed. Still, a contender as we head into December, with the second-best record in the conference thus far.
JPP was listed as questionable and had his best game of the year Â
To keep him returning punts. I don't care what the trade off is, not worth the risk
That was my first thought too. Maybe in a playoff game or something but not now.
This is ridiculous. Deion Sanders was every bit the dominant player that Beckham is, although on the other side of the ball. Antonio Brown is every bit the WR that Beckham is. Both of them were/are as important to their teams as OBJ is to ours.
Use your best players in the best possible way to help your team win.
The left guard was injured. The backup left guard was injured. Â
They were never really in danger of not winning the game. However, the combo of penalties, turnovers, and special teams continues to bite this team in the nuts. Their inability to run the ball against a crappy run defense's 6 man front was a bit scary.
JPP is trying to get OV money.
Eli had some terrific throws, but overall, didn't play well.
Odell should've scored 4 or 5 TDs. I would be surprised if he isn't returning punts the next 2 weeks.
Landon Collins had his worst game of the season.
The defense played well most of the game, although I was highly annoyed by how they let down after JPP's TD.
This defense is the most talented top to bottom of the Reese era. The offense has some talent and room for improvement. This team hasn't gotten a lot better in the turnover and penalty department. They're gonna win a lot of games.
Giants win another ugly one in Pitt next week knocking the rapist out of the game in the process. I'm sure there will be people complaining about the offense in that one too.
At the least at this point the season sure has been fun...
Based on the last couple of seasons... I sure didn’t expect us to be in the middle of a playoff run...
So yea... There’s a lot which could be improved upon... but its all good.
At the least at this point the season sure has been fun...
Based on the last couple of seasons... I sure didn’t expect us to be in the middle of a playoff run...
So yea... There’s a lot which could be improved upon... but its all good.
At the least at this point the season sure has been fun...
Based on the last couple of seasons... I sure didn’t expect us to be in the middle of a playoff run...
So yea... There’s a lot which could be improved upon... but its all good.
At the least at this point the season sure has been fun...
Based on the last couple of seasons... I sure didn’t expect us to be in the middle of a playoff run...
So yea... There’s a lot which could be improved upon... but its all good.
At the least at this point the season sure has been fun...
Based on the last couple of seasons... I sure didn’t expect us to be in the middle of a playoff run...
So yea... There’s a lot which could be improved upon... but its all good.
At the least at this point the season sure has been fun...
Based on the last couple of seasons... I sure didn’t expect us to be in the middle of a playoff run...
So yea... There’s a lot which could be improved upon... but its all good.
At the least at this point the season sure has been fun...
Based on the last couple of seasons... I sure didn’t expect us to be in the middle of a playoff run...
So yea... There’s a lot which could be improved upon... but its all good.
At the least at this point the season sure has been fun...
Based on the last couple of seasons... I sure didn’t expect us to be in the middle of a playoff run...
So yea... There’s a lot which could be improved upon... but its all good.
At the least at this point the season sure has been fun...
Based on the last couple of seasons... I sure didn’t expect us to be in the middle of a playoff run...
So yea... There’s a lot which could be improved upon... but its all good.
At the least at this point the season sure has been fun...
Based on the last couple of seasons... I sure didn’t expect us to be in the middle of a playoff run...
So yea... There’s a lot which could be improved upon... but its all good.
At the least at this point the season sure has been fun...
Based on the last couple of seasons... I sure didn’t expect us to be in the middle of a playoff run...
So yea... There’s a lot which could be improved upon... but its all good.
That makes play action more effective. He also attempted longer passes. Perhaps this is the beginning of McAdoo trusting the Oline a little more in pass protection. It might be the beginning of an offensive expansion.
Of course, it might only be that they felt they could get away with it against Cleveland.
and OBJ
Um, yeah.
so there's that.
The D was great. JPP was incredible. Wing as well.
Not much from the O, especially in the second half. Very poor. Eli had a number of underthrows. It looks like he's lost some arm strength.
ST was also poor.
Offense is really concerning to me. Eli's play lately not what we expect and not what will get it done in the playoffs. He needs to improve. Perkins has more burst than Jennings. At some point we will need to hand over the keys to the car to him.
Really odd that Shepard and Tye were invisible today but yet we kept forcing it to Lewis. I really don't get it.
Didn't they say it was ruled a FR on the return for the TD
Eli threw 3 TD's and didn't turn it over. If feels like he's bearing the brunt of all of the other players ineptitude.
Just keep winning. This team wont win pretty. Just live with it and enjoy it
I didn't like how much they were forcing the run in the second half, but they were clearly leaning on the defense.
I didn't like how much they were forcing the run in the second half, but they were clearly leaning on the defense.
I think it may have just been a matter of trying to back the D off the line, since the running game wasn't doing it.
Offense is really concerning to me. Eli's play lately not what we expect and not what will get it done in the playoffs. He needs to improve. Perkins has more burst than Jennings. At some point we will need to hand over the keys to the car to him.
Really odd that Shepard and Tye were invisible today but yet we kept forcing it to Lewis. I really don't get it.
Eli has 15 TDs in the 6 game win streak and once again, the ball was taken out of his hands once we had the lead in the 2nd half. Mind you we have 1 receiver who gets open.
I didn't like how much they were forcing the run in the second half, but they were clearly leaning on the defense.
You can get away with wasting possessions forcing the run (to no avail) vs the Browns. McAdoo can't afford that shit over the final 5 weeks.
I'm in agreement with EricJ. Offense was explosive at times today but was mostly bad.
Eli threw 3 TD's and didn't turn it over. If feels like he's bearing the brunt of all of the other players ineptitude.
This must be a joke post. Did you watch the damn game?
I'm back on forth on Vereen coming back. I think Perkins gives us more potential for bigger plays, and would love to see him develop during this stretch run.
Eli threw 3 TD's and didn't turn it over. If feels like he's bearing the brunt of all of the other players ineptitude.
+1
Some of the younger guys complaining, I have no idea who that is, would have been destroying Simms back in the 80's.
Quote:
Do you ever wonder about the guys who he's throwing to, or handing off to outside of Beckham? When was the last time you saw Cruz get any separation? Where was Sheppard today other than the end around?
Eli threw 3 TD's and didn't turn it over. If feels like he's bearing the brunt of all of the other players ineptitude.
+1
Some of the younger guys complaining, I have no idea who that is, would have been destroying Simms back in the 80's.
This isn't the game to praise Eli. Stop it. This was a game to praise the defense for carrying the team. And you and Britt are better posters than this. You know better.
Eli has 15 TDs in the 6 game win streak and once again, the ball was taken out of his hands once we had the lead in the 2nd half. Mind you we have 1 receiver who gets open.
Oh I agree that the play calling is horrible even before we got the lead. No question. I will challenge you on the 1 WR who gets open. There are times when I am watching, I rewind and see him throw into tight coverage and I can see another WR open. Maybe there is 1 open but he is not throwing to that guy. I don't know who is responsible for the poor decisions to go way down field when we need just a few yards. I am laying that on both McAdoo and Eli since we don't know and it is on one or both of them to make a better decision there.
He made some nice throws today and I know I mentioned each one of them in the game thread. The bottom line though is if we want to go deep into the playoffs he needs to play better. ...period.
Quote:
In comment 13235764 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
Do you ever wonder about the guys who he's throwing to, or handing off to outside of Beckham? When was the last time you saw Cruz get any separation? Where was Sheppard today other than the end around?
Eli threw 3 TD's and didn't turn it over. If feels like he's bearing the brunt of all of the other players ineptitude.
+1
Some of the younger guys complaining, I have no idea who that is, would have been destroying Simms back in the 80's.
This isn't the game to praise Eli. Stop it. This was a game to praise the defense for carrying the team. And you and Britt are better posters than this. You know better.
Are we praising him or defending him?
I'm back on forth on Vereen coming back. I think Perkins gives us more potential for bigger plays, and would love to see him develop during this stretch run.
In a Vereen thread I mentioned something similar. Do we really want to have a 3 back rotation now? I sure don't. Would rather see it be a 2 back thing between Perkins and Vereen. Are we afraid to lose Jennings' production? Shit, you can call forward on your face 20 times per game and match his production.
Next two games are tough. Have to play real strong in all aspects to win both.
That was my first thought too. Maybe in a playoff game or something but not now.
Quote:
In comment 13235791 Defense56 said:
Quote:
In comment 13235764 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
Do you ever wonder about the guys who he's throwing to, or handing off to outside of Beckham? When was the last time you saw Cruz get any separation? Where was Sheppard today other than the end around?
Eli threw 3 TD's and didn't turn it over. If feels like he's bearing the brunt of all of the other players ineptitude.
+1
Some of the younger guys complaining, I have no idea who that is, would have been destroying Simms back in the 80's.
This isn't the game to praise Eli. Stop it. This was a game to praise the defense for carrying the team. And you and Britt are better posters than this. You know better.
Are we praising him or defending him?
I get your point but who is exactly going nuts on Eli? They are pointing out the issues he had today. I'm not sure why he would need defending from that.
Quote:
In comment 13235764 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
Do you ever wonder about the guys who he's throwing to, or handing off to outside of Beckham? When was the last time you saw Cruz get any separation? Where was Sheppard today other than the end around?
Eli threw 3 TD's and didn't turn it over. If feels like he's bearing the brunt of all of the other players ineptitude.
+1
Some of the younger guys complaining, I have no idea who that is, would have been destroying Simms back in the 80's.
This isn't the game to praise Eli. Stop it. This was a game to praise the defense for carrying the team. And you and Britt are better posters than this. You know better.
Nobody's praising him. Just saying maybe others around may need to pick it up too. On this site, if you're not out right shitting on Eli, it means you're an apologist. There is a middle ground.
We are so incredibly lucky to have OBJ. Another week another show. That's without mentioning all the big plays left out there like his punt return TD called back, and the couple times Eli missed him for potential big ones. Eli was good today though and is now suddenly 2:1 in TD to int this season.
JPP. Nothing else needs to be said about him. Monster. He has been terrific all season, it's nice to see the stats catching up
j/k
We have the 2nd worse run game in the NFL. Period. Point blank. The other team knows we have to throw it and plays their safeties back every game. Even with this advantage, we still can't run the ball consistently.
The offensive line is mediocre at best, and that's BEFORE being down 2 starters today.
As it has been the past two years, Eli Manning and OBJ are the only reason we are in a lot of games. Like today. Nobody else steps up.
I'm sorry some of you need to scapegoat one player, but it's a much bigger problem than one player, and has been for years.
Eli can still play at a high level, and IMO, is one of the reasons we're on a 6 game winning streak, rather than a detriment to it.
Eli threw 3 TD's and didn't turn it over. If feels like he's bearing the brunt of all of the other players ineptitude.
Britt,
No doubt but Eli bears a lot too. He's made some brutal throws and misses and his audibles in some spots take us right out of a chance to get a 1st or sustain drives. He made some big throws but he had long stretches of suck today too. THere was six or seven throws where he had a receiver wide open and beat and he flat out missed and missed badly. Good news is he's kept the turnovers in check.
I still love Eli but he's had some bizarre spurts this year. Very up and down in games. Arm strength too which worries me a bit in harsher winter weather.
Quote:
and I'm not sure why he was forcing it downfield to Lewis so much. Seemed weird.
I didn't like how much they were forcing the run in the second half, but they were clearly leaning on the defense.
You can get away with wasting possessions forcing the run (to no avail) vs the Browns. McAdoo can't afford that shit over the final 5 weeks.
Missed Beckham on the first series, he had two yards on Haden down the sideline, good throw a TD. Later, Haden got
away with a PI, BUT Eli was late throwing the ball.
Eli had a bad first quarter, this offense leaves a lot
to be desired right now. They were outgained by the Brownies. Thankfully the defense showed up, another win.
Now it will get interesting the rest of the way.
Lewis will only catch one ball per game - the rest clunk off his facemask. So get him his on catch and get him off the field.
There is nothing more useless than a DT dropping into coverage instead of rushing - unless Eli is throwing a pass. He seems to find him.
Holding call on Herzlich on OBJ's punt return was pretty poor IMHO.
JPP is getting paid. He'll be getting OV money by somebody. I hope it is the Giants, but $30 mill for 2 DE's???
Matt Millen is awful.
Quote:
To keep him returning punts. I don't care what the trade off is, not worth the risk
That was my first thought too. Maybe in a playoff game or something but not now.
McAdoo asked about that... Said OBJ is "electric" on the return & you want to put the ball in your best players hands... I really hope that's not an indication they'll keep him back there.
the ball was taken out of his hands once we had the lead in the 2nd half. Mind you we have 1 receiver who gets open.
WTF?? It was a ONE possession game until midway through the 4th; how is a big enough lead that "the ball was taken out of his hands"?
And plenty of guys were open today, Eli either over or under threw them...
Glad the d is awesome. It's going to get better as time goes on .....
Quote:
In comment 13235801 GloryDayz said:
Quote:
To keep him returning punts. I don't care what the trade off is, not worth the risk
That was my first thought too. Maybe in a playoff game or something but not now.
McAdoo asked about that... Said OBJ is "electric" on the return & you want to put the ball in your best players hands... I really hope that's not an indication they'll keep him back there.
I don't think the Sehorn debacle will ever be erased from fans' minds.
penalty on a punt return. Since Perkins had a penalty on
the same punt return, Browns took the one on Perkins.
It was a run down the sideline by ODB, not the 'TD'.
(Herz had the penalty on the punt return TD, that wasn't).
I hope Apple is okay, but I didn't mind he was off the field
late in the game. Too many rookie mistakes with him.
I know he's a rookie, might cost them at some point.
But who knows- part of it is McAdoo.
You know you've got to stop Beckham Jr, it's your number one priority....
Outside of that, who scares you? Who is going to beat you that you really need to worry about? Sheppard I guess would be next.
After that, it's a long, long dropoff.
That's what we're dealing with. No running game, no TE that can make you pay... It's not a lot to work with.
Quote:
In comment 13235814 illmatic said:
Quote:
In comment 13235801 GloryDayz said:
Quote:
To keep him returning punts. I don't care what the trade off is, not worth the risk
That was my first thought too. Maybe in a playoff game or something but not now.
McAdoo asked about that... Said OBJ is "electric" on the return & you want to put the ball in your best players hands... I really hope that's not an indication they'll keep him back there.
I don't think the Sehorn debacle will ever be erased from fans' minds.
I know huh....Harris has had 3 muffs, and now Rainey had one, no surprise with Rainey. Doesn't Antonio Brown return
punts for the Steelers? I want somebody who can catch
the damn ball, first and foremost.
Audition kickers this week Mac, gave Gould a pass last game.
Quote:
In comment 13235814 illmatic said:
Quote:
In comment 13235801 GloryDayz said:
Quote:
To keep him returning punts. I don't care what the trade off is, not worth the risk
That was my first thought too. Maybe in a playoff game or something but not now.
McAdoo asked about that... Said OBJ is "electric" on the return & you want to put the ball in your best players hands... I really hope that's not an indication they'll keep him back there.
I don't think the Sehorn debacle will ever be erased from fans' minds.
Honestly... NO. But thats not it. When you have a FA signed mostly, if not totally to be a returner, thats an unnecessary risk for the best player the team has had since LT
return . We gifted them with Raniny's fumbled punt and the ref,s crap calls .
We really need to get Pugh and Newhouse back we had 13
total 1st downs and the TOP was ridiculous seldom do we have game controlling drives we still can't run the damn ball.
Thankfully the Browns mad enough mistakes and the Defense
Bailed the team out . No patsies the rest of the way .
Next three games against division leaders then two road
games vs division foes . I was mystified late when were at
or near the 50 needing 5-6 yards and we throw 3 deep throws
JPP and Snacks were money ..
Quote:
and I'm not sure why he was forcing it downfield to Lewis so much. Seemed weird.
I didn't like how much they were forcing the run in the second half, but they were clearly leaning on the defense.
I think it may have just been a matter of trying to back the D off the line, since the running game wasn't doing it.
This guy gets it. This team is still Eli, Beckham and not much else. Eli and McAdoo have been doing all sorts of shit to keep defenses honest and manufacture offense.
Look at the first three plays of the 2nd half. Draw to jennings, screen to jennings, draw to jrnnings.
Unreal.
Agree. Those were soft calls, almost like the refs were trying to keep the game competitive.
Shepard wasn't targeted once, one touch on end around.
Cruz can't get separation playing on the outside.
You have two slot receivers here now.
Eli was directly responsible for a lot of bad plays.
As with most of the year, the D was more responsible than the O for a win.
Blame everyone else all you want, Eli is marginally more part of the problem than part of the solution these days.
Quote:
during the return...nor would I have called Perkins's...it was some ticky tack bullshit. I wouldn't even have called Herzlich's.
Refs called them, all that is relevant.
Whether psople think it is ticky tack, is not relevant.
Folks whine about officials after every game I have noticed!
Agree. Those were soft calls, almost like the refs were trying to keep the game competitive.
Look at the first three plays of the 2nd half. Draw to jennings, screen to jennings, draw to jrnnings.
Unreal.
And they were in long down/distance a fair number of times because he was awful on the deep throw.
And you're also conveniently forgetting that Eli checks out of a lot of plays. So just stop with this "Eli had the ball taken out of his hands" nonsense...
For the Giants, just get in the "tournament" as Parcells used to say, and take your chances.
I was very critical of OBJ defending the Hail Mary but I agree there should be little concern with him returning punts. He can take the ball to the house every time he touches it so you get him the touches and enjoy the show.
Yet, he's the only one making the deep catches. He was open twice more and Eli was inaccurate. I think there may have been more wind than we think.
Also, on OBJ's 2nd TD, Cruz was triple covered, a CB, a Safety and LB on him off the line.
Please no more to Lewis deep. He is flat awful.
I would also like to see another pass rushing D Lineman.
That's what I would like to see, long way to there though.
I've got a feeling they are going to have to make a choice
between JPP, and Hankins. Just a gut feeling.
Quote:
On the first drive, no doubt. That throw he has to make. But when your 2nd and 3rd and long. Your defense is playing well. They always go into a shell.
Look at the first three plays of the 2nd half. Draw to jennings, screen to jennings, draw to jrnnings.
Unreal.
And they were in long down/distance a fair number of times because he was awful on the deep throw.
And you're also conveniently forgetting that Eli checks out of a lot of plays. So just stop with this "Eli had the ball taken out of his hands" nonsense...
I would try to explain why he audibles into a run but I am not sure you would understand.
And can you give a precise number of times he has audibled into a run? Sometimes he is giving a dummy call as well.
Watched a lot of other games in the bar.
Seems like every team has two TEs who catch a passel of passes in the middle of the field
Like to see the Jints use their TEs more
All you people who said we should cut him last year for an accident, turn in your BBI membership and never post again. You're proven idiots.
I agree with David in LA and others that too much is being made of Vereen's return. Perkins can catch it too, and he's a much better runner. I don't want to see Perkins give up reps for Vereen
Eli was directly responsible for a lot of bad plays.
As with most of the year, the D was more responsible than the O for a win.
Blame everyone else all you want, Eli is marginally more part of the problem than part of the solution these days.
I agree with David in LA and others that too much is being made of Vereen's return. Perkins can catch it too, and he's a much better runner. I don't want to see Perkins give up reps for Vereen
Vereen was responsible for two costly turnovers the past two Skins games.
Quote:
Just not his game. But I give him credit for being clutch this season.
Yet, he's the only one making the deep catches. He was open twice more and Eli was inaccurate. I think there may have been more wind than we think.
Also, on OBJ's 2nd TD, Cruz was triple covered, a CB, a Safety and LB on him off the line.
Please no more to Lewis deep. He is flat awful.
The deep balls today were on Eli. I didn't see Lewis blow any catches today.
Quote:
there isn't a chance (unless you have really bad vision) you see a HOF QB.
Eli was directly responsible for a lot of bad plays.
As with most of the year, the D was more responsible than the O for a win.
Blame everyone else all you want, Eli is marginally more part of the problem than part of the solution these days.
i think this is one of those things where we are all going to see what we want to see and nothing more. In my case, I see Eli covering for a lot of suck around him, whether in his receiver ability and separation, routes being run, time in the pocket, and even the running game. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't and he looks bad while minimizing everyone else's suck. Interspersed with that are failures due to him which are the same failures that everyone else, Brady, his brother, whoever also had. He's not worse than them or than he himself ever was, but he can't always cover for everyone else.
I'm glad I'm not alone in seeing it this way. Nice to see you, and others, with the same view.
The deep balls today were on Eli. I didn't see Lewis blow any catches today.
Like the slo-mo replay of the last one clunking off his facemask???
He is awful, right now. Let Tavarres King play.
penalty on a punt return. Since Perkins had a penalty on
the same punt return, Browns took the one on Perkins.
It was a run down the sideline by ODB, not the 'TD'.
(Herz had the penalty on the punt return TD, that wasn't).
I hope Apple is okay, but I didn't mind he was off the field
late in the game. Too many rookie mistakes with him.
I know he's a rookie, might cost them at some point.
the penalty on apple on the return with questionable at best
Without Eli and OBJ, we have nothing. At least that's what it feels like to me. You want to see bad? Imagine what our offense looks like with Nassib in for Eli and Cruz starting for OBJ, with Lewis Jr. and Sheppard.
I imagine the situations for most teams would look pretty dour. It would be nice if our running game would carry us for just one week at some point.
It's fair to say 'what if you had a borderline HOF QB and a possible HOF WR, and a decent rookie WR, and a decent 3rd WR. and a 3.9 ypc rushing stat. wouldn't you think that would be a decent nucleus capable of putting up more than meh?'
It's fair to say 'what if you had a borderline HOF QB and a possible HOF WR, and a decent rookie WR, and a decent 3rd WR. and a 3.9 ypc rushing stat. wouldn't you think that would be a decent nucleus capable of putting up more than meh?'
Let me rephrase that... Other than a great QB and great WR, can you win with a couple of other WR's that can't get separation, no tight end, a mediocre to bad offensive line, and the 2nd worst run game in the NFL?
The defense has been playing great. No complaints.
Without Eli and OBJ, we have nothing. At least that's what it feels like to me. You want to see bad? Imagine what our offense looks like with Nassib in for Eli and Cruz starting for OBJ, with Lewis Jr. and Sheppard.
Without Montana and Rice, I bet those 49ers teams of the 80s wouldn't have been as good as they were.
I bet most teams aren't as good as they are without their 2 best players.
How about you and I save ourselves the 50 message exchange where you keep harping on it over and over, beating it to death by focusing one super small facet, that I've already conceded, while ignoring the larger point?
Deal?
How about you and I save ourselves the 50 message exchange where you keep harping on it over and over, beating it to death by focusing one super small facet, that I've already conceded, while ignoring the larger point?
Deal?
I haven't actually read the whole thread yet.
That comment stood out as not saying anything of substance, so I responded. If you've walked that back, that's fair.
All that said, this offense has enough talent at QB and WR and even RB to play much better than they have been overall. If they don't start playing better for sustained periods, they will be in trouble the rest of the way. The D is having a bigger impact right now. What happens if they have an off day?
I have also been one of Spags' biggest critics and I have to admit his D has looked much better the last several weeks. Then again, it does fit my description of him only looking good when he gets very good DL play. Right now, the DL is asserting itself against the run and pass, inside and out. IT also helps that this is the first year in a while the secondary seems to mostly all be on the same page in coverage.
As for the DL, they are playing very well of late. But, keep in mind they also have been playing some banged up and/or bad OLs. Then again, they played some banged up OLs earlier in the year and didn't exert themselves. So, them stepping up is still a good thing.
We have 2 tds of 35 yards or more other than beckam...and that was on a blocked field goal and a INT. that puts a ton of pressure on your qb to be perfect all the time. Yeah he missed some throws today. But our running backs averaged 3.3 yards per carry. Our #2 had 1 catch. Our slot guy had 0. And it's not like they were running free all day either.
He threw a perfect fade to cruz and then to harris for a TD. The seam pass to beckham was one of his best throes all year.
And he had ZERO turnovers. And contrary to belief the tipped ball by Ogbah wasn't even close to being intercepted despite BBI claiming it was.
15 TDs during this streak with only 2 rushing TDs. I think a lot of things need to get better... Eli not nearly being at the top of things.
Quote:
Game managers usually aren't making the only plays that are needed to win ie: 3 TD passes today. Game managers rely on a strong running game, not turning the ball over, and moving the chains through the air every now and then.
Without Eli and OBJ, we have nothing. At least that's what it feels like to me. You want to see bad? Imagine what our offense looks like with Nassib in for Eli and Cruz starting for OBJ, with Lewis Jr. and Sheppard.
Without Montana and Rice, I bet those 49ers teams of the 80s wouldn't have been as good as they were.
I bet most teams aren't as good as they are without their 2 best players.
For what it's worth, they won 2 of those Superbowls without Rice.
For the Giants, just get in the "tournament" as Parcells used to say, and take your chances.
Or 18-0. :o)
Eli is scrutinized because he's the franchise QB. His supporting cast outside of OBJ is below average but that doesn't mean it's acceptable to miss that many throws.
I think many fans overlook many of the things he does well like not taking sacks. But I see nothing wrong with pointing out he hasn't been sharp this year.
I'm hoping he finds his A game down the stretch. I think he will get hot at some point.
Quote:
Because other than obj, we have zero weapons with speed. Cruz and SS are possession receivers. Our tight ends are a joke. Jennings is slow. Perkins is very raw and inexperienced..
Eli is scrutinized because he's the franchise QB. His supporting cast outside of OBJ is below average but that doesn't mean it's acceptable to miss that many throws.
I think many fans overlook many of the things he does well like not taking sacks. But I see nothing wrong with pointing out he hasn't been sharp this year.
I'm hoping he finds his A game down the stretch. I think he will get hot at some point.
He's accounted for 83% of our tds during the 6 game streak. Must be doing something right.
The RB numbers rushing the last 3 games
24-118
25-101
24-84
Having a defense the staff knows can make stops, changes how you call plays.
I honestly don't think the last 2 weeks the Giants felt at all threatened by the offenses they had to play
Beckham is really the only WR who can get deep, and teams are always guarding agains that with safety help over the top against him. Cruz can't get deep anymore. He's caught a few long passes, but his lack of separation is obvious. It took nearly perfect throws by Eli to get him the ball on those plays. Shepard is a slot receiver. Maybe Lewis can get deep later on this season, but that doesn't seem likely.
Eli is therefore often throwing against six or seven defenders, into tight windows, even at the second level. His pass protection at times has also been shaky.
But his accuracy and arm strength seem to have declined. Eli has taken a lot of hits over his career. He's also been lucky that a few passes were intercepted, including two against the Bears.
I'd like to see fewer shotgun draws with Jennings, and more runs by Perkins, especially around the end. Flare passes to the RBs and flanker screens to OBJ and Shepard would also be a good way of compensating for the lack of a run game.
Nassib is likely gone after this year. The fact that the Giants brought in Johnson strongly suggests that they are ready to move on as well. We should start thinking about Eli's replacement. It's not a good draft for QBs, but Davis Webb of California is somebody they might want to consider.
But every now and then Eli does a little shuffle in pocket, finds OBJ and he is off to the races. Nothing else to say other than it is what is with these guys...
Defense really turning up the intensity big time, particularly the D-line. Have no idea why we just didn't go man-to-man on Prior as there was nothing else that Cleveland team could do. Adams is still being targeted as FS.. he is either so deep he can't help over the middle or gets caught looking in the backfield like on the goal line deep pass.
8-3 nevertheless. See you in Pittsburgh...
Because we don't score when we have gone into a shell. We didn't score after we tool the lead against the bears. And the only offensive score today was a big eli throw to obj then a td to obj.
When I read comments like this, it makes me wonder if Giants fans watch any other games other than the Giants. The fact is, every team has drives stall; every team has stretches where they let an inferior team hang with them. If the Giants had jumped out to 14-0 lead right away and then traded 3-and-outs with Cleveland for a quarter, you'd barely notice it. If they'd have jumped out to a 27-0 lead, we'd all be jumping for joy, and then if Cleveland crept back to 27-13 late in the game, that joy would turn to anger.
The fact is, we went on the road against a desperate team, handled their best, and then continued to pull away as our defense really stepped up in front of our very eyes. This is far from a perfect team by any stretch, but it's a team being led by a rookie head coach who just surpassed the win totals of each of the past three seasons and did so in just 11 games.
If you were expecting an overnight transformation into a dominant contender, maybe your expectations were too high. But they are a contender, albeit flawed. Still, a contender as we head into December, with the second-best record in the conference thus far.
Quote:
To keep him returning punts. I don't care what the trade off is, not worth the risk
That was my first thought too. Maybe in a playoff game or something but not now.
This is ridiculous. Deion Sanders was every bit the dominant player that Beckham is, although on the other side of the ball. Antonio Brown is every bit the WR that Beckham is. Both of them were/are as important to their teams as OBJ is to ours.
Use your best players in the best possible way to help your team win.
That alone had me thinking we were screwed, and we did just fine. No points for style, but the win counts regardless.
JPP is trying to get OV money.
Eli had some terrific throws, but overall, didn't play well.
Odell should've scored 4 or 5 TDs. I would be surprised if he isn't returning punts the next 2 weeks.
Landon Collins had his worst game of the season.
The defense played well most of the game, although I was highly annoyed by how they let down after JPP's TD.
This defense is the most talented top to bottom of the Reese era. The offense has some talent and room for improvement. This team hasn't gotten a lot better in the turnover and penalty department. They're gonna win a lot of games.
Giants win another ugly one in Pitt next week knocking the rapist out of the game in the process. I'm sure there will be people complaining about the offense in that one too.
Based on the last couple of seasons... I sure didn’t expect us to be in the middle of a playoff run...
So yea... There’s a lot which could be improved upon... but its all good.
Based on the last couple of seasons... I sure didn’t expect us to be in the middle of a playoff run...
So yea... There’s a lot which could be improved upon... but its all good.
Based on the last couple of seasons... I sure didn’t expect us to be in the middle of a playoff run...
So yea... There’s a lot which could be improved upon... but its all good.
Based on the last couple of seasons... I sure didn’t expect us to be in the middle of a playoff run...
So yea... There’s a lot which could be improved upon... but its all good.
Based on the last couple of seasons... I sure didn’t expect us to be in the middle of a playoff run...
So yea... There’s a lot which could be improved upon... but its all good.
Based on the last couple of seasons... I sure didn’t expect us to be in the middle of a playoff run...
So yea... There’s a lot which could be improved upon... but its all good.
Based on the last couple of seasons... I sure didn’t expect us to be in the middle of a playoff run...
So yea... There’s a lot which could be improved upon... but its all good.
Based on the last couple of seasons... I sure didn’t expect us to be in the middle of a playoff run...
So yea... There’s a lot which could be improved upon... but its all good.
Based on the last couple of seasons... I sure didn’t expect us to be in the middle of a playoff run...
So yea... There’s a lot which could be improved upon... but its all good.
Based on the last couple of seasons... I sure didn’t expect us to be in the middle of a playoff run...
So yea... There’s a lot which could be improved upon... but its all good.
Based on the last couple of seasons... I sure didn’t expect us to be in the middle of a playoff run...
So yea... There’s a lot which could be improved upon... but its all good.
Of course, it might only be that they felt they could get away with it against Cleveland.