That episode was on fire. I want to know about Billy's fiancé picture and why we saw it earlier in the season. Who put the other picture there that caused this?
Maeve and that one gangster have to be involved somehow. We finally get the reveal that William is Man in Black and Dolores is somehow Wyatt.
Is Ford somehow killed off? How do we get to Season 2? Thoughts?
Easy... they reset Bernard and have him and Clementine join their army. They have the tech guy disarm their bombs from their vertebrate and they walk out of the building as it fades to black. Before all that a bunch of stuff happens in the park and the maze. lol
Obviously, he can be "repaired".I'm sure he'll be altered and return. I love his character and the actor who portrays him. He's been excellent.
I love how HBO seemingly repeats folks in different roles. Boardwalk Empire fans may remember Bernard as Narcisse.
They've always done that but more and more A-list actors are joining the top shows on television and it's awesome IMO. The difference between top cinema and shows in terms of budget, actors, ect is getting less and less.
You needed a road map to figure out last nights episode. A lot of good info but a lot of confusion. You have to track Deloris's moving from one timeline to another by when she is wearing a blue dress or shirt and slacks, yikes.
I do remember the picture from the 1st episode setting off Abernathy. I do not remember MiB carrying it. Abernathy found it near the coral (but maybe I have to re-watch).
MiB meeting Deloris at the end and that photo, for me, confuses the 2/3 timeline option and does not clarify it.
I think the park has lost its luster to a certain extent thus modern day WILLIAM being bored in it and trying to find the maze. So based on the scenes from next week his newest storyline will be just what we are seeing the robots taking a life of their own, with him being the only person who can stop them.
The beginning episodes with Delores sitting with Bernard in the blue dress are actually Delores sitting with Albert.
The robots are reliving their dreams to make them remember. So you Billy is actually a robot and his asshole brother in law is one as well since he was sliced and strangled etc.
All timelines are present, some are just being rehashed to remember. Hopkins is creating a world where he is god and his robots have free will to up the entertainment factor.
William helps Dolores get to what used to be a small town with a church. They've shown in the present time that the town isn't actually there anymore or is perhaps buried (minus the steeple of the church?). How are present day Dolores and the MiB now able to walk through the front door of a building that is no longer standing in the open in that timeline?
Was she talking with Arnold or Bernard? I'm thinking it was Arnold.
I think it's definitely Arnold given the line of questioning. Wasn't he always probing for advanced signs of consciousness? Perhaps Dolores was his most advanced side project and Ford used his relationship with her as a way to kill him and end his work at the same time.
William helps Dolores get to what used to be a small town with a church. They've shown in the present time that the town isn't actually there anymore or is perhaps buried (minus the steeple of the church?). How are present day Dolores and the MiB now able to walk through the front door of a building that is no longer standing in the open in that timeline?
From Reddit
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5) We've only been following 1 timeline. Yup. We've been following 1 timeline the whole time. You just didn't notice it, and neither did Dolores. After the reveries were implemented (purposefully, by Ford), we start getting these alternate timelines. But the reveries are just supposed to make the hosts remember past lives. When the hosts remember, the literally "re-live" the memories instead of just vaguely remembering them. Dolores has been following her one timeline (her "path"), but has been having flashbacks, re-living past lives. When we see Dolores in the William timeline, we often see her trip out for a few seconds. Sometimes these show past versions of herself dead, showing that she got this far in the maze before but hit a literal "dead end." Sometimes we see Dolores remember things that are obviously in the past, like the Wyatt massacre. STILL OTHER TIMES though, we see Dolores more or less doing the same thing that she's doing with William, except that William isn't there. THIS is when we see Dolores as she is, in the present. She is mirroring the path she took with William to bring her to the center of the maze (the Wyatt massacre town) in order to assume the mantle of "Wyatt" and become the villain that Ford knows she can be. She has been flashing back to William's timeline, literally retracing her steps to arrive back at the town, and it's been right under our noses the whole time. Ford intended this through the reveries, as he always intended to implement this Wyatt storyline.
And remember, there's a path for everyone, and Teddy's path always leads him back to Dolores.
Was she talking with Arnold or Bernard? I'm thinking it was Arnold.
I think it's definitely Arnold given the line of questioning. Wasn't he always probing for advanced signs of consciousness? Perhaps Dolores was his most advanced side project and Ford used his relationship with her as a way to kill him and end his work at the same time.
100% Arnold in the beginning. She had on that blue dress and Arnold wanted to see if she was conscious.
I just wonder, if Ed Harris is actually McPoyle. Why would he say that killing Maeve's daughter was the first time he saw the robots truly alive after going through all this with Delores.
Yes, I got all of that. I can see how Dolores sees herself standing in the church as it was, but how is the MiB walking through the front door? Unless they're both shown to be actually standing in a subterranean church ruin at the beginning of next episode (Dolores imagining/remembering the rest), that part still doesn't add up for me.
I just wonder, if Ed Harris is actually McPoyle. Why would he say that killing Maeve's daughter was the first time he saw the robots truly alive after going through all this with Delores.
He is kind of chasing the dragon sort of speak. He comes back trying to relive the first interaction to find that spark, since he lived through part of the maze journey when it was around.
Ford got rid of that interaction, and killing Maeve's daughter was the only other time he saw consciousness in them.
William helps Dolores get to what used to be a small town with a church. They've shown in the present time that the town isn't actually there anymore or is perhaps buried (minus the steeple of the church?). How are present day Dolores and the MiB now able to walk through the front door of a building that is no longer standing in the open in that timeline?
Perhaps that was Fords special project? rebuilding the town with the church? We hadn't seen the church in "modern times" for a while? It could have been rebuilt since then.
Bernard is a robot version of Arnold, and Arnold helped build the park with Ford.
Then, Arnold is killed, and someone who looks and acts exactly like him is now working at the park, except he's called 'Bernard', and no one asks any questions? Doesn't any human working at the park wonder why Bernard looks exactly like Arnold?
1. Pre-opening - The town was used to test the hosts. Arnold tried to give them consciousness (note the host tweeking out while Delores is walking through the church wearing the blue dress) This is where he had his talks with Delores. In the end Delores kills him (Ford's doing most likely). It also looks like Delores and Teddy were used to kill Arnold's test subjects in the town (why? I have no idea, but its the only theory I have)
2. 30 years ago - Delores joins Will and Logan to look for the maze. I don't think it was made clear why she left her loop in this one but when she gets to the town/maze it is buried. She is then stabbed by Logan and runs off. Don't know what happens to her after this (we will probably see in ep 10) as her awareness switches to present day when she is not stabbed.
3. Present - Delores, after an encounter with MIB in the barn and again with witnessing her "father's" malfunction, shoots the bandit hosts and runs off again on the same path she took with William. Her memories merge together and she becomes confused (as with the rest of us) This time however, Ford has already dug up the town and Delores is able to get to the basement (the center of the maze?) and remember.
As for MIB, I assume he is William and his mission in getting to the maze was actually to meet Delores there after she has gained her sentience. I doubt he really raped her in the barn, but I don't think she will react the way he hopes once she puts it all together.
What is Ford's new narrative about?
Why did he decide on the narrative after his talk with Mr. Abernathy (Delores's "Dad")?
Is Ford behind the incoming transmissions that Elsie found, which are changing core codes? or is it really coming from Arnold somehow?
Why kidnap Stubbs now?
What is Charlotte and Sizmore up to, particularly with Abernathy.
Bernard is a robot version of Arnold, and Arnold helped build the park with Ford.
Then, Arnold is killed, and someone who looks and acts exactly like him is now working at the park, except he's called 'Bernard', and no one asks any questions? Doesn't any human working at the park wonder why Bernard looks exactly like Arnold?
This was the first question in my mind as well, but apparently with it being 35 years ago nobody currently working there would remember him. I also believe they've referred to anything having to do with Arnold essentially being scrubbed out of the parks existence. I I,agile this would include pictures, etc.
What is Ford's new narrative about?
Why did he decide on the narrative after his talk with Mr. Abernathy (Delores's "Dad")?
Is Ford behind the incoming transmissions that Elsie found, which are changing core codes? or is it really coming from Arnold somehow?
Why kidnap Stubbs now?
What is Charlotte and Sizmore up to, particularly with Abernathy.
I can't wait until episode 10.
The new narrative is Maeve and her plan to escape, he implemented it and she has no idea.
Bernard is a robot version of Arnold, and Arnold helped build the park with Ford.
Then, Arnold is killed, and someone who looks and acts exactly like him is now working at the park, except he's called 'Bernard', and no one asks any questions? Doesn't any human working at the park wonder why Bernard looks exactly like Arnold?
This was the first question in my mind as well, but apparently with it being 35 years ago nobody currently working there would remember him. I also believe they've referred to anything having to do with Arnold essentially being scrubbed out of the parks existence. I I,agile this would include pictures, etc.
I could be 100% wrong here but I do not think Bernard looks like Arnold. He is a host creation by Ford to be/replace Arnold as Ford's partner and may think like him or mimic Arnold's brain but is not a clone of Arnold in appearance. Arnold is the guy in the middle of the pic showing the 3 of them. In re watching ep 9: Ford says to Bernard something like: You were made in our image; Arnold and mine. He is speaking figuratively about Bernard's appearance.
You could also argue that with Ford giving the Bernard the painful back story of a dying son as a "cornerstone", Bernard is very much a unique personality and not a clone of Arnold's mind.
It might have something to do with the fact that all of the technicians in the labs under the Church were killed in Delores' flash back. Ford might have been the only one left alive.
You have to suspend your disbelief a lot with these shows; the Benard/Arnold recognition issue doesn't strike me as the biggest leap. :)
Just hope they don't string us along for a couple of years and go Battlestar Galactica on us with "everyone is a cylone" replaced with "everyone is a host."
(whatever his name is, to me he's "non-famous Hemsworth brother") confronts the Ghost Nation warriors, and as he pulls his gun gets taken down by a sneak attacker from the side, I thought it was a nod to Jurassic Park. Given that "clever girl" is a favorite line of mine, I hope it was.
RE: So, pretty minor thing, but when the security guy Â
(whatever his name is, to me he's "non-famous Hemsworth brother") confronts the Ghost Nation warriors, and as he pulls his gun gets taken down by a sneak attacker from the side, I thought it was a nod to Jurassic Park. Given that "clever girl" is a favorite line of mine, I hope it was.
Bernard is a robot version of Arnold, and Arnold helped build the park with Ford.
Then, Arnold is killed, and someone who looks and acts exactly like him is now working at the park, except he's called 'Bernard', and no one asks any questions? Doesn't any human working at the park wonder why Bernard looks exactly like Arnold?
This was the first question in my mind as well, but apparently with it being 35 years ago nobody currently working there would remember him. I also believe they've referred to anything having to do with Arnold essentially being scrubbed out of the parks existence. I I,agile this would include pictures, etc.
I could be 100% wrong here but I do not think Bernard looks like Arnold. He is a host creation by Ford to be/replace Arnold as Ford's partner and may think like him or mimic Arnold's brain but is not a clone of Arnold in appearance. Arnold is the guy in the middle of the pic showing the 3 of them. In re watching ep 9: Ford says to Bernard something like: You were made in our image; Arnold and mine. He is speaking figuratively about Bernard's appearance.
You could also argue that with Ford giving the Bernard the painful back story of a dying son as a "cornerstone", Bernard is very much a unique personality and not a clone of Arnold's mind.
I found the answer. Bernard has only been around for 10 years and he mentions it in episode 1 when he says "Since I have been here, he's been Abernathy, for 10 years... he was sheriff for a while before then"
Bernard is a robot version of Arnold, and Arnold helped build the park with Ford.
Then, Arnold is killed, and someone who looks and acts exactly like him is now working at the park, except he's called 'Bernard', and no one asks any questions? Doesn't any human working at the park wonder why Bernard looks exactly like Arnold?
This was the first question in my mind as well, but apparently with it being 35 years ago nobody currently working there would remember him. I also believe they've referred to anything having to do with Arnold essentially being scrubbed out of the parks existence. I I,agile this would include pictures, etc.
I could be 100% wrong here but I do not think Bernard looks like Arnold. He is a host creation by Ford to be/replace Arnold as Ford's partner and may think like him or mimic Arnold's brain but is not a clone of Arnold in appearance. Arnold is the guy in the middle of the pic showing the 3 of them. In re watching ep 9: Ford says to Bernard something like: You were made in our image; Arnold and mine. He is speaking figuratively about Bernard's appearance.
You could also argue that with Ford giving the Bernard the painful back story of a dying son as a "cornerstone", Bernard is very much a unique personality and not a clone of Arnold's mind.
I found the answer. Bernard has only been around for 10 years and he mentions it in episode 1 when he says "Since I have been here, he's been Abernathy, for 10 years... he was sheriff for a while before then"
Don't think that's proof that Bernard has only been there 10 years. His memory could have been wiped and he could be programmed to think that.
Bernard is a robot version of Arnold, and Arnold helped build the park with Ford.
Then, Arnold is killed, and someone who looks and acts exactly like him is now working at the park, except he's called 'Bernard', and no one asks any questions? Doesn't any human working at the park wonder why Bernard looks exactly like Arnold?
This was the first question in my mind as well, but apparently with it being 35 years ago nobody currently working there would remember him. I also believe they've referred to anything having to do with Arnold essentially being scrubbed out of the parks existence. I I,agile this would include pictures, etc.
I could be 100% wrong here but I do not think Bernard looks like Arnold. He is a host creation by Ford to be/replace Arnold as Ford's partner and may think like him or mimic Arnold's brain but is not a clone of Arnold in appearance. Arnold is the guy in the middle of the pic showing the 3 of them. In re watching ep 9: Ford says to Bernard something like: You were made in our image; Arnold and mine. He is speaking figuratively about Bernard's appearance.
You could also argue that with Ford giving the Bernard the painful back story of a dying son as a "cornerstone", Bernard is very much a unique personality and not a clone of Arnold's mind.
I found the answer. Bernard has only been around for 10 years and he mentions it in episode 1 when he says "Since I have been here, he's been Abernathy, for 10 years... he was sheriff for a while before then"
Don't think that's proof that Bernard has only been there 10 years. His memory could have been wiped and he could be programmed to think that.
Agreed. Ford has been reprogramming and wiping his memory for who knows how long.
The William/MiB storyline is by far the most interesting Â
if indeed they're the same guy. (MiB never had the pic of his wife as far as I remember- but I think it is him)
It would follow that Delores in the past gets wiped after the stomach wound and then fails to recognize William or remember their time together...which could explain the MiB saying that killing Maeve was the closest he's ever seen a host act human. Also explains why the first thing he does upon returning to the park for the last time is to look up Delores and punish her. Also explains his complete lack of empathy for any of the hosts- as she showed him (in the most harsh way-he was convinced she was sentient) that they were nothing more than inanimate things pretending to be alive.
The Maze (that's not for him) and deeper part of "the game" he's looking for is the one where it's real...that the hosts can harm the guests, which is why he says in ep2 or 3 that this is his last visit and that he isn't going back. Whether he thinks that means the hosts will be sentient or not, I dunno- but his story about his daughter blaming him for his wife's death and her comments about him always being ready to explode combined with his actions and comments throughout kinda point to him wanting to kill/harm "real" beings, no?
When he says that he was basically compelled to do what Wyatt wanted...could that mean that Delores was able to reprogram hosts when she went on her killing spree?
When he says that he was basically compelled to do what Wyatt wanted...could that mean that Delores was able to reprogram hosts when she went on her killing spree?
I'm not sure reprogramming Teddy would have been been necessary. Even for early versions of poor hapless Theodore, pleasing/helping/saving Dolores may have been a prime directive.
Back to the multiple timelines for a moment. To some extent, Nolan and Joy are probably messing with us on the whole time vs. memory thing - which has always been a favorite game of Nolan's - all the way back to Memento. Are we watching multiple omnicient narratives, unfolding 5/30/35 years apart? Or are we just traveling with Dolores and other hosts on their reverie-driven journey of the mind?
Maybe it doesn't matter. As Felix told Maeve, the hosts are capable of perfect recall if programmed for it, so their reveries could be as accurate as an omnicient narrator's PoV. Scenes for which Dolores was not present - like William's initial reception and train ride into the park - could have been embedded into her memory as additional back story. For that matter, scenes for which she was clearly present could be embellishments as well. We can't assume that Teddy is the only host with a rigged version of the Escalante story. Without knowing what Ford is really up to, it's pretty hard to figure out whose story we're watching, and whether the narrator is reliable.
The rabbit hole, then, is much deeper than questions about the "sameness" of William/MiB or Bernard/Arnold, or the number of timelines, or which staff are alive/dead/hosts. It's the nature of reality, of time, of humanity, of memory and the connections among them. In other words, the little TV show is tackling some very serious sh!t.
Why did Charlotte interrupt MiB's adventure? Obviously MiB is either a part owner (or why would Charlotte be looking for his approval to oust Ford) or he is a board member, CEO of Delos?
Is he looking for the Maze so he can find how Arnold got killed?
Why did Ford have Bernard kill himself? Does blowing his brains out demolish the processor so that it cannot be rebooted? Does it permanently erase evidence that Ford had Bernard kill Teresa and Elyse? Has to be something along that line since Ford warned Bernard about about consequences for remembering everything. If Charlotte and Teresa were stealing the code from Ford for Delos, why would Ford send Bernard to kill Elyse and how did he know she found the transmitter?
Is he looking for the Maze so he can find how Arnold got killed?
Are you sure he knows what he's looking for, or why? As the MiB's connection to the Park gains layers, so do his possible motives. We still don't know for sure that he is William. If he is, to what extent is his search for the Maze propelled by his history with Dolores? How much is driven by his business entanglement with Delos? What's the role of his own personal tragedy outside the Park, which seems to have its origin in his first trip with Logan.
The show has strongly hinted that the Maze is a metaphor, and that it is different for each host. It might include physical elements like the confessional, the basement chambers, etc., which could be literal or figurative. These ideas came mostly through Ford's reprogramming of Teddy, but they seem to match up with other clues. As for the location of the Maze, Dolores may already be in it, or may be remembering it.
I think we'll get some important exposition in Episode 10:
- Either confirmation that Ed Harris and Jimmi Simpson are the same character, or a twist playing off all the prior clues that they are;
- A clearer (though not necessarily factual) retelling of the Escalante massacre, as Ford chooses to tell it, with Dolores at the center;
- A continuation of the MiB/Dolores meeting in the restored (or buried) church, with who-knows-what reveals and hints;
- Info on the Ghost Nation, who are almost as much of a MacGuffin as the Maze itself and all those hosts in storage on Level 80-whatever;
- At least one more key death... my money is on Logan, in another nod to the Crichton original, which killed off James Brolin as chaos broke loose;
- At least one more "human" character unmasked as a host... Felix and Sylvester are possibilities - it would explain a lot;
- A progress update on Maeve's escape plan, after the charred remains of her and Hector break into Hell. FWIW, I think the jailbreak story line has a long way to go, but I suspect Maeve herself won't make it to the promised land.
Why did Charlotte interrupt MiB's adventure? Obviously MiB is either a part owner (or why would Charlotte be looking for his approval to oust Ford) or he is a board member, CEO of Delos?
Is he looking for the Maze so he can find how Arnold got killed?
Why did Ford have Bernard kill himself? Does blowing his brains out demolish the processor so that it cannot be rebooted? Does it permanently erase evidence that Ford had Bernard kill Teresa and Elyse? Has to be something along that line since Ford warned Bernard about about consequences for remembering everything. If Charlotte and Teresa were stealing the code from Ford for Delos, why would Ford send Bernard to kill Elyse and how did he know she found the transmitter?
Gots lots more questions than answers.
You're assuming the processor is in the robot's head. That's not necessarily the case.
Are you sure he knows what he's looking for, or why? As the MiB's connection to the Park gains layers, so do his possible motives. We still don't know for sure that he is William. If he is, to what extent is his search for the Maze propelled by his history with Dolores? How much is driven by his business entanglement with Delos? What's the role of his own personal tragedy outside the Park, which seems to have its origin in his first trip with Logan.
The MiB makes his intentions with finding the maze very clear, mostly through his interactions with Lawrence. He's returned to Westworld for the final time (his own words that this is his last visit and he doesn't intend on leaving) to find the "last page of the story" that he hasn't read yet. He expects this last page, this one story line that Arnold left after his death to be the "real" game. That means real risk on his part- that the host will be able to kill him. He says this multiple times. He even tells Lawrence at one point when Lawrence says that he will kill him, "Not yet you can't." He also somehow understands that the key to this "real" game and the end of the maze is the hosts gaining consciousness, and that it was something Arnold was working on.
He also talks about how he saved the park- this has to have something to do with Arnold being killed and Delores killing everyone- this is more than likely how he finds out about the maze and Arnold's "last narrative".
He's on a suicide mission after the death of his wife- he believes that the park brings out your true self, but the more "real" the experience, the more your true self will be revealed- so he needs the ultimate "real".
As far as Delores=Wyatt...I think that is only in the sense that Ford's new narrative is based on what happened 30yrs ago...Teddy did not necessarily help Delores go on her killing spree...he's just remembering the narrative that Ford implanted in him that's based on "true events" as Ford says.
I'm not sure, but it seems that Ford is hoping for the same that the MiB wants...yet Ford believes that he will still be able to be god because of his "back door". He'll be even more of a god with conscious hosts that only he can control, no? I think that's his end game.
Why did Charlotte interrupt MiB's adventure? Obviously MiB is either a part owner (or why would Charlotte be looking for his approval to oust Ford) or he is a board member, CEO of Delos?
Is he looking for the Maze so he can find how Arnold got killed?
Why did Ford have Bernard kill himself? Does blowing his brains out demolish the processor so that it cannot be rebooted? Does it permanently erase evidence that Ford had Bernard kill Teresa and Elyse? Has to be something along that line since Ford warned Bernard about about consequences for remembering everything. If Charlotte and Teresa were stealing the code from Ford for Delos, why would Ford send Bernard to kill Elyse and how did he know she found the transmitter?
Gots lots more questions than answers.
Ford knew that Elsie found the transmitter because Bernard knew... everything Bernard has experienced, Ford has had access to- except his most recent encounter with Maeve.
It's more real to be a god if your subjects have free choice...but he also believes he will be safe because of his "secret backdoor" to shut them down/control them as needed.
Cam: I'm going to have to go back and watch the whole season... Â
My impression of the Man in Black is that, although he knows almost everything, he was sincere in saying he hasn't "read the last page" yet. Not only has he not played the last level of the game, he's still figuring out what it is because key pieces of the puzzle were witheld. His search for a place along the river where a literal snake lays its eggs suggests that, at the show's outset, he didn't grasp the metaphorical aspects of the Maze. He goes through guides - Leonard, Teddy, Angela - as he finds the limits of their knowledge and usefulness.
I could certainly be wrong, but I don't think he really gets the Maze until he's standing face-to-face with Dolores in that church - assuming that scene is even real. Why is he satisfied at the end of Episode 9? It's not just finding Dolores - he can see his old flame in Sweetwater any time, and woo her, rape her, kill her - whatever he likes. It's seeing her here - on the threshold of sentience, where she can know him as William - that represents the next level of the game.
the MIB was never shown with the photo of William's fiance, right? That was an incorrect statement?
So it's not confirmed that they are the same person?
True, but it would be a pretty wicked twist at this point if they aren't the same person. I won't reel off all the clues from nine episodes. Just rewind a few minutes, and watch Dolores's lips right before the church doors swing open. She almost unmistakably whispers "William", then is shocked when Ed Harris walks in. Now, you could say she freaks because she's expecting a long-lost lover (the real one, not the fake back-story implant, Teddy) and instead gets her evil memesis. But I think it's even worse: she expects a long-lost lover, and realizes that he is her evil nemesis.
Sign me up for the theory that the MiB has been gradually shocking Dolores into sentience through pain, essentially finishing (or repeating) Arnold's work for his own purposes.
While it's clear that the MiB intends to die in the park, that doesn't mean he wants it to happen soon, or even that death is a goal in itself. If he's William - and he almost certainly is - I think committing permanently to the park and to Dolores is his way of embracing his true self. She may awaken and embrace him, or awaken and kill him. Either way, her awakening is the last page of the book. Which, by the way, is how Alice's Adventures in Wonderland ends too.
Is Ford somehow killed off? How do we get to Season 2? Thoughts?
Easy... they reset Bernard and have him and Clementine join their army. They have the tech guy disarm their bombs from their vertebrate and they walk out of the building as it fades to black. Before all that a bunch of stuff happens in the park and the maze. lol
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Obviously, he can be "repaired".I'm sure he'll be altered and return. I love his character and the actor who portrays him. He's been excellent.
I love how HBO seemingly repeats folks in different roles. Boardwalk Empire fans may remember Bernard as Narcisse.
They've always done that but more and more A-list actors are joining the top shows on television and it's awesome IMO. The difference between top cinema and shows in terms of budget, actors, ect is getting less and less.
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How she is Wyatt. Someone help me out it together. The man in black had that picture 30 years ago?
Logan gave that photo to William in this episode. In episode 1, MIB was carrying that same photo but it had clearly aged.
Wait William's timeline is in the past. Dorris is out there remembering the maze and that part in time.
William = Man in Black wow
I do remember the picture from the 1st episode setting off Abernathy. I do not remember MiB carrying it. Abernathy found it near the coral (but maybe I have to re-watch).
MiB meeting Deloris at the end and that photo, for me, confuses the 2/3 timeline option and does not clarify it.
The beginning episodes with Delores sitting with Bernard in the blue dress are actually Delores sitting with Albert.
The robots are reliving their dreams to make them remember. So you Billy is actually a robot and his asshole brother in law is one as well since he was sliced and strangled etc.
All timelines are present, some are just being rehashed to remember. Hopkins is creating a world where he is god and his robots have free will to up the entertainment factor.
I think it's definitely Arnold given the line of questioning. Wasn't he always probing for advanced signs of consciousness? Perhaps Dolores was his most advanced side project and Ford used his relationship with her as a way to kill him and end his work at the same time.
From Reddit
And remember, there's a path for everyone, and Teddy's path always leads him back to Dolores.
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Was she talking with Arnold or Bernard? I'm thinking it was Arnold.
I think it's definitely Arnold given the line of questioning. Wasn't he always probing for advanced signs of consciousness? Perhaps Dolores was his most advanced side project and Ford used his relationship with her as a way to kill him and end his work at the same time.
100% Arnold in the beginning. She had on that blue dress and Arnold wanted to see if she was conscious.
Yes, I got all of that. I can see how Dolores sees herself standing in the church as it was, but how is the MiB walking through the front door? Unless they're both shown to be actually standing in a subterranean church ruin at the beginning of next episode (Dolores imagining/remembering the rest), that part still doesn't add up for me.
He is kind of chasing the dragon sort of speak. He comes back trying to relive the first interaction to find that spark, since he lived through part of the maze journey when it was around.
Ford got rid of that interaction, and killing Maeve's daughter was the only other time he saw consciousness in them.
Perhaps that was Fords special project? rebuilding the town with the church? We hadn't seen the church in "modern times" for a while? It could have been rebuilt since then.
Then, Arnold is killed, and someone who looks and acts exactly like him is now working at the park, except he's called 'Bernard', and no one asks any questions? Doesn't any human working at the park wonder why Bernard looks exactly like Arnold?
2. 30 years ago - Delores joins Will and Logan to look for the maze. I don't think it was made clear why she left her loop in this one but when she gets to the town/maze it is buried. She is then stabbed by Logan and runs off. Don't know what happens to her after this (we will probably see in ep 10) as her awareness switches to present day when she is not stabbed.
3. Present - Delores, after an encounter with MIB in the barn and again with witnessing her "father's" malfunction, shoots the bandit hosts and runs off again on the same path she took with William. Her memories merge together and she becomes confused (as with the rest of us) This time however, Ford has already dug up the town and Delores is able to get to the basement (the center of the maze?) and remember.
As for MIB, I assume he is William and his mission in getting to the maze was actually to meet Delores there after she has gained her sentience. I doubt he really raped her in the barn, but I don't think she will react the way he hopes once she puts it all together.
What is Ford's new narrative about?
Why did he decide on the narrative after his talk with Mr. Abernathy (Delores's "Dad")?
Is Ford behind the incoming transmissions that Elsie found, which are changing core codes? or is it really coming from Arnold somehow?
Why kidnap Stubbs now?
What is Charlotte and Sizmore up to, particularly with Abernathy.
I can't wait until episode 10.
Then, Arnold is killed, and someone who looks and acts exactly like him is now working at the park, except he's called 'Bernard', and no one asks any questions? Doesn't any human working at the park wonder why Bernard looks exactly like Arnold?
This was the first question in my mind as well, but apparently with it being 35 years ago nobody currently working there would remember him. I also believe they've referred to anything having to do with Arnold essentially being scrubbed out of the parks existence. I I,agile this would include pictures, etc.
What is Ford's new narrative about?
Why did he decide on the narrative after his talk with Mr. Abernathy (Delores's "Dad")?
Is Ford behind the incoming transmissions that Elsie found, which are changing core codes? or is it really coming from Arnold somehow?
Why kidnap Stubbs now?
What is Charlotte and Sizmore up to, particularly with Abernathy.
I can't wait until episode 10.
The new narrative is Maeve and her plan to escape, he implemented it and she has no idea.
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Bernard is a robot version of Arnold, and Arnold helped build the park with Ford.
Then, Arnold is killed, and someone who looks and acts exactly like him is now working at the park, except he's called 'Bernard', and no one asks any questions? Doesn't any human working at the park wonder why Bernard looks exactly like Arnold?
This was the first question in my mind as well, but apparently with it being 35 years ago nobody currently working there would remember him. I also believe they've referred to anything having to do with Arnold essentially being scrubbed out of the parks existence. I I,agile this would include pictures, etc.
I could be 100% wrong here but I do not think Bernard looks like Arnold. He is a host creation by Ford to be/replace Arnold as Ford's partner and may think like him or mimic Arnold's brain but is not a clone of Arnold in appearance. Arnold is the guy in the middle of the pic showing the 3 of them. In re watching ep 9: Ford says to Bernard something like: You were made in our image; Arnold and mine. He is speaking figuratively about Bernard's appearance.
You could also argue that with Ford giving the Bernard the painful back story of a dying son as a "cornerstone", Bernard is very much a unique personality and not a clone of Arnold's mind.
Also could it be possible that Bernard's real backstory is that he is actually Arnold's replacement.
There are many references to Alice in Wonderland in the last episode, so how far would like to go down the rabbit hole.
The man in the middle of the photo is Dr. Ford's dad
You have to suspend your disbelief a lot with these shows; the Benard/Arnold recognition issue doesn't strike me as the biggest leap. :)
Just hope they don't string us along for a couple of years and go Battlestar Galactica on us with "everyone is a cylone" replaced with "everyone is a host."
It was a definitely throw back.
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In comment 13238562 RobCarpenter said:
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Bernard is a robot version of Arnold, and Arnold helped build the park with Ford.
Then, Arnold is killed, and someone who looks and acts exactly like him is now working at the park, except he's called 'Bernard', and no one asks any questions? Doesn't any human working at the park wonder why Bernard looks exactly like Arnold?
This was the first question in my mind as well, but apparently with it being 35 years ago nobody currently working there would remember him. I also believe they've referred to anything having to do with Arnold essentially being scrubbed out of the parks existence. I I,agile this would include pictures, etc.
I could be 100% wrong here but I do not think Bernard looks like Arnold. He is a host creation by Ford to be/replace Arnold as Ford's partner and may think like him or mimic Arnold's brain but is not a clone of Arnold in appearance. Arnold is the guy in the middle of the pic showing the 3 of them. In re watching ep 9: Ford says to Bernard something like: You were made in our image; Arnold and mine. He is speaking figuratively about Bernard's appearance.
You could also argue that with Ford giving the Bernard the painful back story of a dying son as a "cornerstone", Bernard is very much a unique personality and not a clone of Arnold's mind.
I found the answer. Bernard has only been around for 10 years and he mentions it in episode 1 when he says "Since I have been here, he's been Abernathy, for 10 years... he was sheriff for a while before then"
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How she is Wyatt. Someone help me out it together. The man in black had that picture 30 years ago?
Logan gave that photo to William in this episode. In episode 1, MIB was carrying that same photo but it had clearly aged.
Just re watched ep1. Didn't see the MIB ever with the photo. It was discovered by Dolores' dad, but it never showed the MIB with it.
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In comment 13238597 j_rud said:
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In comment 13238562 RobCarpenter said:
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Bernard is a robot version of Arnold, and Arnold helped build the park with Ford.
Then, Arnold is killed, and someone who looks and acts exactly like him is now working at the park, except he's called 'Bernard', and no one asks any questions? Doesn't any human working at the park wonder why Bernard looks exactly like Arnold?
This was the first question in my mind as well, but apparently with it being 35 years ago nobody currently working there would remember him. I also believe they've referred to anything having to do with Arnold essentially being scrubbed out of the parks existence. I I,agile this would include pictures, etc.
I could be 100% wrong here but I do not think Bernard looks like Arnold. He is a host creation by Ford to be/replace Arnold as Ford's partner and may think like him or mimic Arnold's brain but is not a clone of Arnold in appearance. Arnold is the guy in the middle of the pic showing the 3 of them. In re watching ep 9: Ford says to Bernard something like: You were made in our image; Arnold and mine. He is speaking figuratively about Bernard's appearance.
You could also argue that with Ford giving the Bernard the painful back story of a dying son as a "cornerstone", Bernard is very much a unique personality and not a clone of Arnold's mind.
I found the answer. Bernard has only been around for 10 years and he mentions it in episode 1 when he says "Since I have been here, he's been Abernathy, for 10 years... he was sheriff for a while before then"
Don't think that's proof that Bernard has only been there 10 years. His memory could have been wiped and he could be programmed to think that.
Did MIB have the picture in episode 8 when he told Teddy about her?
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In comment 13239215 Tony in Tampa said:
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In comment 13238597 j_rud said:
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In comment 13238562 RobCarpenter said:
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Bernard is a robot version of Arnold, and Arnold helped build the park with Ford.
Then, Arnold is killed, and someone who looks and acts exactly like him is now working at the park, except he's called 'Bernard', and no one asks any questions? Doesn't any human working at the park wonder why Bernard looks exactly like Arnold?
This was the first question in my mind as well, but apparently with it being 35 years ago nobody currently working there would remember him. I also believe they've referred to anything having to do with Arnold essentially being scrubbed out of the parks existence. I I,agile this would include pictures, etc.
I could be 100% wrong here but I do not think Bernard looks like Arnold. He is a host creation by Ford to be/replace Arnold as Ford's partner and may think like him or mimic Arnold's brain but is not a clone of Arnold in appearance. Arnold is the guy in the middle of the pic showing the 3 of them. In re watching ep 9: Ford says to Bernard something like: You were made in our image; Arnold and mine. He is speaking figuratively about Bernard's appearance.
You could also argue that with Ford giving the Bernard the painful back story of a dying son as a "cornerstone", Bernard is very much a unique personality and not a clone of Arnold's mind.
I found the answer. Bernard has only been around for 10 years and he mentions it in episode 1 when he says "Since I have been here, he's been Abernathy, for 10 years... he was sheriff for a while before then"
Don't think that's proof that Bernard has only been there 10 years. His memory could have been wiped and he could be programmed to think that.
Agreed. Ford has been reprogramming and wiping his memory for who knows how long.
It would follow that Delores in the past gets wiped after the stomach wound and then fails to recognize William or remember their time together...which could explain the MiB saying that killing Maeve was the closest he's ever seen a host act human. Also explains why the first thing he does upon returning to the park for the last time is to look up Delores and punish her. Also explains his complete lack of empathy for any of the hosts- as she showed him (in the most harsh way-he was convinced she was sentient) that they were nothing more than inanimate things pretending to be alive.
The Maze (that's not for him) and deeper part of "the game" he's looking for is the one where it's real...that the hosts can harm the guests, which is why he says in ep2 or 3 that this is his last visit and that he isn't going back. Whether he thinks that means the hosts will be sentient or not, I dunno- but his story about his daughter blaming him for his wife's death and her comments about him always being ready to explode combined with his actions and comments throughout kinda point to him wanting to kill/harm "real" beings, no?
I'm not sure reprogramming Teddy would have been been necessary. Even for early versions of poor hapless Theodore, pleasing/helping/saving Dolores may have been a prime directive.
Back to the multiple timelines for a moment. To some extent, Nolan and Joy are probably messing with us on the whole time vs. memory thing - which has always been a favorite game of Nolan's - all the way back to Memento. Are we watching multiple omnicient narratives, unfolding 5/30/35 years apart? Or are we just traveling with Dolores and other hosts on their reverie-driven journey of the mind?
Maybe it doesn't matter. As Felix told Maeve, the hosts are capable of perfect recall if programmed for it, so their reveries could be as accurate as an omnicient narrator's PoV. Scenes for which Dolores was not present - like William's initial reception and train ride into the park - could have been embedded into her memory as additional back story. For that matter, scenes for which she was clearly present could be embellishments as well. We can't assume that Teddy is the only host with a rigged version of the Escalante story. Without knowing what Ford is really up to, it's pretty hard to figure out whose story we're watching, and whether the narrator is reliable.
The rabbit hole, then, is much deeper than questions about the "sameness" of William/MiB or Bernard/Arnold, or the number of timelines, or which staff are alive/dead/hosts. It's the nature of reality, of time, of humanity, of memory and the connections among them. In other words, the little TV show is tackling some very serious sh!t.
Is he looking for the Maze so he can find how Arnold got killed?
Why did Ford have Bernard kill himself? Does blowing his brains out demolish the processor so that it cannot be rebooted? Does it permanently erase evidence that Ford had Bernard kill Teresa and Elyse? Has to be something along that line since Ford warned Bernard about about consequences for remembering everything. If Charlotte and Teresa were stealing the code from Ford for Delos, why would Ford send Bernard to kill Elyse and how did he know she found the transmitter?
Gots lots more questions than answers.
Are you sure he knows what he's looking for, or why? As the MiB's connection to the Park gains layers, so do his possible motives. We still don't know for sure that he is William. If he is, to what extent is his search for the Maze propelled by his history with Dolores? How much is driven by his business entanglement with Delos? What's the role of his own personal tragedy outside the Park, which seems to have its origin in his first trip with Logan.
The show has strongly hinted that the Maze is a metaphor, and that it is different for each host. It might include physical elements like the confessional, the basement chambers, etc., which could be literal or figurative. These ideas came mostly through Ford's reprogramming of Teddy, but they seem to match up with other clues. As for the location of the Maze, Dolores may already be in it, or may be remembering it.
I think we'll get some important exposition in Episode 10:
- Either confirmation that Ed Harris and Jimmi Simpson are the same character, or a twist playing off all the prior clues that they are;
- A clearer (though not necessarily factual) retelling of the Escalante massacre, as Ford chooses to tell it, with Dolores at the center;
- A continuation of the MiB/Dolores meeting in the restored (or buried) church, with who-knows-what reveals and hints;
- Info on the Ghost Nation, who are almost as much of a MacGuffin as the Maze itself and all those hosts in storage on Level 80-whatever;
- At least one more key death... my money is on Logan, in another nod to the Crichton original, which killed off James Brolin as chaos broke loose;
- At least one more "human" character unmasked as a host... Felix and Sylvester are possibilities - it would explain a lot;
- A progress update on Maeve's escape plan, after the charred remains of her and Hector break into Hell. FWIW, I think the jailbreak story line has a long way to go, but I suspect Maeve herself won't make it to the promised land.
Is he looking for the Maze so he can find how Arnold got killed?
Why did Ford have Bernard kill himself? Does blowing his brains out demolish the processor so that it cannot be rebooted? Does it permanently erase evidence that Ford had Bernard kill Teresa and Elyse? Has to be something along that line since Ford warned Bernard about about consequences for remembering everything. If Charlotte and Teresa were stealing the code from Ford for Delos, why would Ford send Bernard to kill Elyse and how did he know she found the transmitter?
Gots lots more questions than answers.
You're assuming the processor is in the robot's head. That's not necessarily the case.
MIB is a board member.
It was strongly implied in The Stray. The Woodcutter erased himself by smashing his own skull.
Of course, Bernard might have been built from an earlier, more "elegant" design, when host anatomy didn't imitate the human model so closely.
The MiB makes his intentions with finding the maze very clear, mostly through his interactions with Lawrence. He's returned to Westworld for the final time (his own words that this is his last visit and he doesn't intend on leaving) to find the "last page of the story" that he hasn't read yet. He expects this last page, this one story line that Arnold left after his death to be the "real" game. That means real risk on his part- that the host will be able to kill him. He says this multiple times. He even tells Lawrence at one point when Lawrence says that he will kill him, "Not yet you can't." He also somehow understands that the key to this "real" game and the end of the maze is the hosts gaining consciousness, and that it was something Arnold was working on.
He also talks about how he saved the park- this has to have something to do with Arnold being killed and Delores killing everyone- this is more than likely how he finds out about the maze and Arnold's "last narrative".
He's on a suicide mission after the death of his wife- he believes that the park brings out your true self, but the more "real" the experience, the more your true self will be revealed- so he needs the ultimate "real".
As far as Delores=Wyatt...I think that is only in the sense that Ford's new narrative is based on what happened 30yrs ago...Teddy did not necessarily help Delores go on her killing spree...he's just remembering the narrative that Ford implanted in him that's based on "true events" as Ford says.
I'm not sure, but it seems that Ford is hoping for the same that the MiB wants...yet Ford believes that he will still be able to be god because of his "back door". He'll be even more of a god with conscious hosts that only he can control, no? I think that's his end game.
Is he looking for the Maze so he can find how Arnold got killed?
Why did Ford have Bernard kill himself? Does blowing his brains out demolish the processor so that it cannot be rebooted? Does it permanently erase evidence that Ford had Bernard kill Teresa and Elyse? Has to be something along that line since Ford warned Bernard about about consequences for remembering everything. If Charlotte and Teresa were stealing the code from Ford for Delos, why would Ford send Bernard to kill Elyse and how did he know she found the transmitter?
Gots lots more questions than answers.
Ford knew that Elsie found the transmitter because Bernard knew... everything Bernard has experienced, Ford has had access to- except his most recent encounter with Maeve.
I think he wants to be a god.
It's more real to be a god if your subjects have free choice...but he also believes he will be safe because of his "secret backdoor" to shut them down/control them as needed.
My impression of the Man in Black is that, although he knows almost everything, he was sincere in saying he hasn't "read the last page" yet. Not only has he not played the last level of the game, he's still figuring out what it is because key pieces of the puzzle were witheld. His search for a place along the river where a literal snake lays its eggs suggests that, at the show's outset, he didn't grasp the metaphorical aspects of the Maze. He goes through guides - Leonard, Teddy, Angela - as he finds the limits of their knowledge and usefulness.
I could certainly be wrong, but I don't think he really gets the Maze until he's standing face-to-face with Dolores in that church - assuming that scene is even real. Why is he satisfied at the end of Episode 9? It's not just finding Dolores - he can see his old flame in Sweetwater any time, and woo her, rape her, kill her - whatever he likes. It's seeing her here - on the threshold of sentience, where she can know him as William - that represents the next level of the game.
So its not confirmed that they are the same person?
So it's not confirmed that they are the same person?
Sign me up for the theory that the MiB has been gradually shocking Dolores into sentience through pain, essentially finishing (or repeating) Arnold's work for his own purposes.
While it's clear that the MiB intends to die in the park, that doesn't mean he wants it to happen soon, or even that death is a goal in itself. If he's William - and he almost certainly is - I think committing permanently to the park and to Dolores is his way of embracing his true self. She may awaken and embrace him, or awaken and kill him. Either way, her awakening is the last page of the book. Which, by the way, is how Alice's Adventures in Wonderland ends too.
Yeah, this seems highly unlikely
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How is Delores Wyatt?
Yeah, this seems highly unlikely
Welp I was sure wrong about that