A lot of talk on this site about the lack of production from the WR unit this year outside of OBJ. IMO, it's true. We need another dynamic playmaker on the other side of OBJ to loosen up opposing secondaries.
I've always been a fan of bigger receivers a la Plaxico as Eli has a tendency to airmail some throws on occasion. Michael Floyd looks the part and would be a serious downfield and endzone target.
Alshon Jeffrey would be a good look here also. Only 26 yrs. old, he is three years removed from his 2013 Pro Bowl campaign of 89/1400. Also have to keep in mind who has been throwing him the ball these last two years. A change of scenery might do him well.
Emmanuel Sanders is coming off a 3 yr, $15 million dollar deal and has a ring already with Denver. He'll be looking to cash out. He is super elusive in the middle of the field and has excellent hands. OBJ and Sanders outside with SS in slot. Holy hell!
Markus Wheaton out of Pittsburgh. 25 years old and a potential stud in the right system. I say potential as his numbers aren't jaw dropping but his talent is undeniable. Might have to slightly over pay here but he is an upgrade over what we have and it's not even close.
I know we have to sign our own guys first (Hankins, JPP and, of course, Larry Donnell. Haha, JK) But an upgrade in the WR core will make us a better downfield threat.
Any sleepers I forgot?
Emmanuel Sanders is 5'11, 180 if you believe the typically exaggerated published H/W. Arguably smaller than Odell.
I might not have been clear here. My preference is for taller and bigger. I just listed the other guys as potentials like Sanders and Wheaton for discussion's sake.
FA will be JPP (i hope) and Hank the tank. maybe another OL. I don't see a big splurge tho. We have a bunch of our own guys coming up soon
This and/or reclamation like Floyd. I also like Rishard Matthews but his stock is rising and he may price himself out of the Giants' Reese. I definitely think we need a size receiver who can be a downfield threat.
Yes. Still raw but the size and speed are there.
Good point. But Eli's window is closing. I'd rather a proven commodity than someone to teach and someone who'd need at least one year in an NFL weight room to build themselves up. Rookie wall comes in to play here also.
It's about now vs. later. Pay Matthews or Floyd and we'd be clicking. Sanders too.
I think we have our 2 TEs..with a little more development.
we should be able to find a talented Y wr somewhere......
but no way do we spend big bucks......obj is due soon enough
I think this breed of fan would rather go fantasy skill position and complain about the OL every year.
That's just silly. We basically got him for peanuts this year.
Emmanuel Sanders also just signed a 3 yr/$33M extension through 2019.
I'd avoid Jeffery. Likely to get a huge deal and with the injuries/suspension, not sure he'll be worth it.
If they go the FA route, I'd look at Kenny Britt or Michael Floyd. Big, outside targets that likely won't break the bank. I think the 4 yr/$34M deal Crabtree signed last year with OAK is the absolute max either could expect.
Another potential target that is a bit more of a gamble: Cordarrelle Patterson. Hasn't done much as WR, but excellent kick return man and has shown a couple flashes as a WR this season.
Agree. Pryor yesterday was a beast and a lot of his catches were high. He gave them what Plax gave us. I want a good tall guy. Thought Barden might have been that but ...
IF they cut Cruz or force a paycut there, they'll actually have very little invested at the WR position. They are currently 19th in the NFL in WR spending (~$15M for 2016) and are set to be 7th in WR spending for 2017 (~$19M), though it's obviously early. $9.4M of next year's total is set to be invested in Cruz and while Cruz hasn't been as bad as many think, I think there's little chance he plays for the Giants at that cap number.
#2 for 2017 spending is Harris at ~$3.8M, though he's more of a special teamer than a WR.
Beckham will be 3rd, but still only costing ~$3.3M next season.
So they certainly can afford another WR, especially if they move on from Cruz.
I think it's more likely that they draft a big WR relatively early (and they should have the opportunity to do that in the first three rounds).
Exactly...
I think it's more likely that they draft a big WR relatively early (and they should have the opportunity to do that in the first three rounds).
Cleveland would easily give Pryor that much.
Some potentially cheap options I like are Britt and Quick (both fairly tall), Anquon boldin (good red zone target for Detroit), Kendall wright (not a red zone threat but gets open consistently in the slot), Kenny stills (solid deep threat), and worst case Vincent Jackson (never healthy but tall and likely cheap).
Doesn't at all make sense to spend that much on a WR this year and then like $15M a year additionally when Odell gets paid.
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2 solid OL instead?
Exactly...
2017 will be a piss-poor year for UFA OL. As with WR, I'd like to see the Giants draft a Big Ugly relatively early, then take a flyer on one late, a la 2015.
Quick is awful. I'd rather stick with Roger Lewis.
Boldin is basically just a slot WR at this point and we already have too many slot WRs. Definitely not taking snaps away from Shepard for Boldin.
Wright - again, he's better in the slot, which means less snaps there for Shepard and makes it hard to move Beckham inside.
V Jackson - he's done. Can't stay healthy and hasn't been good the last 2 years even when he is healthy.
$7-8M is not a lot for a WR, especially when your top 2 WRs are on rookie deals.
Quick is awful. I'd rather stick with Roger Lewis.
Boldin is basically just a slot WR at this point and we already have too many slot WRs. Definitely not taking snaps away from Shepard for Boldin.
Wright - again, he's better in the slot, which means less snaps there for Shepard and makes it hard to move Beckham inside.
V Jackson - he's done. Can't stay healthy and hasn't been good the last 2 years even when he is healthy.
$7-8M is not a lot for a WR, especially when your top 2 WRs are on rookie deals.
It's a pretty crappy class overalll. What's the % of snaps shepards been playing in the slot? Just from watching it seems he gets lined out wide fairly often which is why someone like Boldin would be a tremendous addition in the red zone regardless of where Shepard would line up.
Quick is on pace for 600 yards and 5 TDs. Nothing great but he's been the 2nd WR behind Britt and has had a 60% catch rate. Really not sure why anyone would take roger Lewis over him. He's 6'4".
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Then never mind then haha. Was really hard to figure out where he was on the field in general yesterday.
Generally agree with this, though 'if' they decide to part ways with Cruz, I can see them going after a mid-level outside WR in the $6-8M range. Would basically just replace Cruz's cap figures for 2017/18 and Beckham's cost doesn't explode until 2019.
Obviously also depends on what they do with JPP, Hankins and even Pugh (though he's signed for 2017). If JPP doesn't return, they're almost guaranteed to go DE in rds 1-2. Hankins leaving probably means another DT in rds 2-4. And even if Pugh signs an extension, I think they either need a RG in FA or relatively high in the draft (first 3 rounds).
So if they are using the draft to add depth along both lines (plus potentially another CB), it may limit their ability to draft a WR.
They did have Jaelen Strong on the short list, perhaps they could find a way to pry him (or similar) away on the cheap.
They did have Jaelen Strong on the short list, perhaps they could find a way to pry him (or similar) away on the cheap.
I agree, but they also prefer drafting DEs, perhaps even moreso before last season! And unless Owa/Okwara start flashing more, I can see them going DE high (1st 3 rounds) even if they re-sign JPP.
Also might go CB high again depending on how the DRC 'situation' works out. Even if they keep DRC, the depth after the top 3 wouldn't keep me from looking CB in the 2nd/3rd rounds with an eye towards the 2018 season rather than 2017.
RT - no idea how they view Hart. Aside from that one awful game (GB?) he's seemed to hold his own fairly well and from cnewk's reviews seems to be one of the more consistent OL in run blocking. They've gotta upgrade RG though either via the draft or FA. And obviously need depth along the OL.
I don't think they'll go for a top name at WR (Pryor, Jeffery, etc), but a mid-level guy wouldn't surprise me and isn't unprecedented (Plax - Reese was part of this FO and Harris). Though there's still too many moving parts at this point.
Wouldn't be surprised to see another pay cut, though it's unlikely to save the Giants more than a few million in cap space.
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Look at Reese's track record historically, the WRs come via the draft. I'd wager they do DE, WR, RT with their first three draft picks before they'd spend much on a UFA WR.
They did have Jaelen Strong on the short list, perhaps they could find a way to pry him (or similar) away on the cheap.
I agree, but they also prefer drafting DEs, perhaps even moreso before last season! And unless Owa/Okwara start flashing more, I can see them going DE high (1st 3 rounds) even if they re-sign JPP.
Also might go CB high again depending on how the DRC 'situation' works out. Even if they keep DRC, the depth after the top 3 wouldn't keep me from looking CB in the 2nd/3rd rounds with an eye towards the 2018 season rather than 2017.
RT - no idea how they view Hart. Aside from that one awful game (GB?) he's seemed to hold his own fairly well and from cnewk's reviews seems to be one of the more consistent OL in run blocking. They've gotta upgrade RG though either via the draft or FA. And obviously need depth along the OL.
I don't think they'll go for a top name at WR (Pryor, Jeffery, etc), but a mid-level guy wouldn't surprise me and isn't unprecedented (Plax - Reese was part of this FO and Harris). Though there's still too many moving parts at this point.
CB is one position where the Giants have not hesitated to spend big bucks in free agency. Much will depend on what happens with DRC, but I can see the Giants making another relatively major investment at the position in 2017, say, for a guy like Robert Alford.
LB is another position where the Giants have been fairly active in free agency during Reese's tenure. They may not go after a top-tier UFA LB, but there will be some second-tier UFAs available they might target. We'll see.
Andre Holmes
He is a big target that has been buried on the Raiders depth chart behind Crabtree, Cooper, and Roberts. By no means is he a breakout star but he could be a nice compliment to OBJ.
Pierre Garcon may be a free agent as well. An older guy like Anquan Boldin who is still productive and may not be an expensive addition.
Brandon Lafell is also 30 and could be a UFA target.
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In comment 13237367 JonC said:
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Look at Reese's track record historically, the WRs come via the draft. I'd wager they do DE, WR, RT with their first three draft picks before they'd spend much on a UFA WR.
They did have Jaelen Strong on the short list, perhaps they could find a way to pry him (or similar) away on the cheap.
I agree, but they also prefer drafting DEs, perhaps even moreso before last season! And unless Owa/Okwara start flashing more, I can see them going DE high (1st 3 rounds) even if they re-sign JPP.
Also might go CB high again depending on how the DRC 'situation' works out. Even if they keep DRC, the depth after the top 3 wouldn't keep me from looking CB in the 2nd/3rd rounds with an eye towards the 2018 season rather than 2017.
RT - no idea how they view Hart. Aside from that one awful game (GB?) he's seemed to hold his own fairly well and from cnewk's reviews seems to be one of the more consistent OL in run blocking. They've gotta upgrade RG though either via the draft or FA. And obviously need depth along the OL.
I don't think they'll go for a top name at WR (Pryor, Jeffery, etc), but a mid-level guy wouldn't surprise me and isn't unprecedented (Plax - Reese was part of this FO and Harris). Though there's still too many moving parts at this point.
CB is one position where the Giants have not hesitated to spend big bucks in free agency. Much will depend on what happens with DRC, but I can see the Giants making another relatively major investment at the position in 2017, say, for a guy like Robert Alford.
LB is another position where the Giants have been fairly active in free agency during Reese's tenure. They may not go after a top-tier UFA LB, but there will be some second-tier UFAs available they might target. We'll see.
I'm hoping they re-sign Robinson. Other than that and a vet MLB, not sure they make a huge splash in FA at LB. Kennard/Casillas will both be back and hopefully Goodson will take over the starting MLB role from Sheppard.
Historically, Reese will investigate moderate and scrap heap options at RT, MIKE, TE, RB. And, first three draft picks could literally be DE, WR, DT in some BPA-resembling order.
Andre Holmes
He is a big target that has been buried on the Raiders depth chart behind Crabtree, Cooper, and Roberts. By no means is he a breakout star but he could be a nice compliment to OBJ.
Pierre Garcon may be a free agent as well. An older guy like Anquan Boldin who is still productive and may not be an expensive addition.
Brandon Lafell is also 30 and could be a UFA target.
Completely forgot about him. He was essentially replaced in whole by Cooper and I believe Roberts dominates the slot there. He's 6'4" and has good speed
As for LB, much will depend on how the Giants view B.J. Goodson going forward. Is he starter material? If so, then fine. Bye bye Sheppard. If not, the Giants will need to find someone who is. I'd look at a kid like A.J. Klein (although he had a rough day yesterday).
Where you and I disagree is when it comes to the D-Line (which, of course, will depend a lot on what happens with JPP and Hankins). I don't think the Giants will use two premium picks there. I think they'll tap an OL instead.
Not a good year for UFA RTs. I'm thinking more OG in the draft, unless an OT drops who's just to good to pass up.
You have to look at the underclassmen who might declare, too. It might be a down year as far as bona fide blue chippers are concerned, but I see quite a few red chippers who could compliment OBJ and SS very nicely.
JPP and Hankins are free agents. With Pugh, Richburg, and Beckham's contracts also looming, not expecting the Giants to be huge players in free agency besides signing their own. I certainly don't see them spending huge coin on a WR.
The Giants usually use FA to fill in the glaring weak spots on the roster. When a position devolves into a state of crisis the Giants will dive in FA and strike fast. They go big when needed. As much as some of insist, the Giants WRs are far from shaky or bad. They are great. Beckham definitely represents a big part of this but it doesn't change the fact that the Giants passing game is a strength. They could certainly use some more juice at the position, preferably a bigger outside threat but they aren't devoting big finances to the position when they just drafted another WR in round 2 this past April and they have to sign Beckham in another year or two.
The Giants have bigger fish to fry and some of you are underrating the talent at WR.
JPP and Hankins are free agents. With Pugh, Richburg, and Beckham's contracts also looming, not expecting the Giants to be huge players in free agency besides signing their own. I certainly don't see them spending huge coin on a WR.
The problem is that the market for UFA OGs next year isn't any better than the market for OTs. In my opinion, the Giants would be much better served by looking to upgrade their OL with a draft pick or two rather than in free agency.
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we sign an OL, probably a right guard if they feel comfortable with Hart at RT.
JPP and Hankins are free agents. With Pugh, Richburg, and Beckham's contracts also looming, not expecting the Giants to be huge players in free agency besides signing their own. I certainly don't see them spending huge coin on a WR.
The problem is that the market for UFA OGs next year isn't any better than the market for OTs. In my opinion, the Giants would be much better served by looking to upgrade their OL with a draft pick or two rather than in free agency.
I'd be OK with that scenario.
I'm really not expecting any huge FA moves if they retain Hankins and JPP.
Historically, Reese will investigate moderate and scrap heap options at RT, MIKE, TE, RB. And, first three draft picks could literally be DE, WR, DT in some BPA-resembling order.
Thrill has two points.
First, it's sensible to divorce ourselves from Reese's historical tendencies. Last offseason was a huge departure governed by a new head coach (and other staff and front office changes) as well as an evolving cap environment. Bottom line, this business is fluid.
Second, with so many dynamic moving parts year-to-year, it might be foolhardy to aggressively search for predictive value based on past offseasons. There have been numerous instances where the team was prepared to invest heavily in the aforementioned "scrapheap" positions (RT, TE. RB). Remember, results are not always representative of process.
With regards to draft capital, here are a few specific examples of results masquerading as tendency...
2010 - we had high grades on CJ Spiller and also Anthony Davis. Both went early and our consolation prize was JPP
2011 - the room was ready for Nate Solder, presumably as a succession plan for Kareem McKenzie, but he went 17th to NE and we settled for Prince Amukamara (great grandson of former owner Wellington Amuka-Mara).
2012 - David Wilson, running back, Virginia Polytechic Institute
2013 - there was a lot of love for Tyler Eifert but they opted for Pugh ...who slotted into RT early with Will Beatty seemingly entrenched on the left side (had signed a 5-year $38 MM deal in February)
2014 - Odell Beckham Jr. "He's pretty good" - Matt Millen
2015 - Either there was gonna be a new Scherff in town or we would erect Flowers in the OL garden. Beatty was still penciled in at LT having made 48 consecutive starts; less than three weeks later on May 20, he tore his pectoral. Colloquially known as pecs, the pectoral muscles attach the human chest to the bones of the upper arm and shoulder. The pecs enable flexion, extension, and rotation of the humerus. Cleary there was little humor to this injury as Beatty has not since appeared in a game.
2016 - No secret the team targeted both Leonard Floyd and Jack Conklin, the latter of whom was a RT candidate from the jump. But an ever higher grade belonged to Ezekiel Elliot. Also of note, had he not been taken earlier by the Chargers, we would have selected TE Hunter Henry with our second pick #40.
Thrilly's overall point: there's litle sense confidently speculating what Reese will do in free agency or the draft. Sure, team building philosophy exists. But I believe Reese and his staff have been open-minded to good players at virtually any position. And they are most interested in drafting players, not positions. Sometimes (oftentimes) they make mistakes, sometimes other teams get in the way, sometimes it's just not right marriage of player, personality, price and scheme.
Agreed. He will probably never be the same player, but sometimes it takes a full year to get back in shape. There's a chance he gets better next year.
The only thing is he was never really an outside WR. He's playing out of position. With Shepard on the team, they may chose to go with youth. Personally, I'd keep Cruz at least through 2017 & see what happens.
him two years in a row. In fact, everybody it seems wanted
McCourty, but the way New England uses him, not sure they
are getting their money's worth. This has more to do
with Matt Patricia, than McCourty when I say that.
You recall Kenny Phillips' LAST season here right,
they were playing in East Rutherford, but the Giants
had him playing in Passaic or Carlstadt.
That's how the Pats use McCourty, makes no plays.
At least Berry is 'allowed' to play some football.
This doesn't mean he is actually better, but at least
he is part of the action.
They can draft a WR, OL, and D Lineman, and they should
early in the draft!
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He's not quite the same player now, but still shows some of the ability to make key plays in big spots. I think he's ultimately going to be a very difficult player for them to let go of.
Agreed. He will probably never be the same player, but sometimes it takes a full year to get back in shape. There's a chance he gets better next year.
The only thing is he was never really an outside WR. He's playing out of position. With Shepard on the team, they may chose to go with youth. Personally, I'd keep Cruz at least through 2017 & see what happens.
They can ask him to take a pay cut again, I think they should. I am glad for Victor, that he made it back even this far, to be honest.
He looks about 75-80% of what he once was,
that's how I look at it.