I don't have access to any of the advanced statistics sites, however just from memory, could be wring of course, but I cannot recall Eli Manning completing a pass for over 40 yards in the air this season. Granted, Eli has never been a top 10 arm strength QB, however he always had enough to take advantage of the deep ball when the opportunity presented itself.
This year that big play deep game has been non existent, and I believe it is the main reason for the drop off in points this season, as well as the inability to get out to big leads. And it's not that they aren't taking shots downfield, they are, however Eli has just not been able to get the ball there. He is either underthrowing guys or missing the target completely.
I am guessing that Eli is dealing with an arm issue that we are not aware of, at least I'm hoping that's the cause, it wouldn't make sense that his arm just died this suddenly, especially after these past 2 seasons, if anything Eli looked like he was gaining arm strength prior to this season.
Can't recall a game in which he was this inaccurate throwing the long ball? This team can not afford to miss these opportunities with the caliber of teams improving over the remainder of the season. It's promising that we are still winning considering the multiple mistakes but you have to imagine if we do not get our shit together the remaining 5 games could be dreadful.
A win is a win but this game should've been a laugher! We had opportunities Eli was off the mark.
It's coming man. Vereen being in the lineup will help. Because Perkins checking in almost always equals a run. Jennings has run the ball better lately but his playing time is due to the fact hat he can pass protect.
Don't forget the fact that Pugh should be back as well. This offense will pick up eventually.
40 yards in the air? Or 40 yard completions? A 15yd slant that OBJ winds up taking to the house is not a deep ball.
Eli is not used to working with Shepherd and Lewis, so the chemistry is not there yet. And Cruz is a shell of himself. Once they start clicking on some longballs, the running game and stuff underneath will open up.
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Drops come into play here also. OBJ, Lewis and Cruz also dropped sure 40 yarders.
40 yards in the air? Or 40 yard completions? A 15yd slant that OBJ winds up taking to the house is not a deep ball.
Serious question? How often does the entire league see that? 40 yards in the air is a very long throw and is almost a 50/50 ball given todays DBs. Not to mention Mac's offense might not call for it. It seems to me that asking Eli to get rid of the ball quicker means less attempts that long as well as taking what you can get.This is beyond a silly question.
The NYG passing game needs to be short and quick....and in addition the running game is so bad that their short passing game is now their running game.
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Drops come into play here also. OBJ, Lewis and Cruz also dropped sure 40 yarders.
40 yards in the air? Or 40 yard completions? A 15yd slant that OBJ winds up taking to the house is not a deep ball.
Serious question? How often does the entire league see that? 40 yards in the air is a very long throw and is almost a 50/50 ball given todays DBs. Not to mention Mac's offense might not call for it. It seems to me that asking Eli to get rid of the ball quicker means less attempts that long as well as taking what you can get.This is beyond a silly question.
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Drops come into play here also. OBJ, Lewis and Cruz also dropped sure 40 yarders.
40 yards in the air? Or 40 yard completions? A 15yd slant that OBJ winds up taking to the house is not a deep ball.
Serious question? How often does the entire league see that? 40 yards in the air is a very long throw and is almost a 50/50 ball given todays DBs. Not to mention Mac's offense might not call for it. It seems to me that asking Eli to get rid of the ball quicker means less attempts that long as well as taking what you can get.This is beyond a silly question.
The NYG passing game needs to be short and quick....and in addition the running game is so bad that their short passing game is now their running game.
The consensus is that Lewis is erratic and Cruz washed up. But last year Randolph was the big man. Effectively speaking we traded Shepard and Cruz for Randolph...and got worse.
I"m not at all optimistic that there's a silver bullet in Mc's holster.
The defense forces 3 & outs and that should help the offence too.
I don't think I've ever seen anything as bad as the last two weeks against inferior opposition. The second half against Chi was painful to watch and so was much of the Browns game.
I have to start wondering if it's coaching. And if it's not coaching then Eli has started his decline. Too damn bad because almost no one realizes how good this defense is.
This is my worst year ever as a fan and it started with the Tunsil debacle. I said at the time that that would define us for a decade. Sheer unforgiveable stupidity, just because they hadn't counted on it and were frozen with a corporate type of "play safe" policy.
The consensus is that Lewis is erratic and Cruz washed up. But last year Randolph was the big man. Effectively speaking we traded Shepard and Cruz for Randolph...and got worse.
I"m not at all optimistic that there's a silver bullet in Mc's holster.
The defense forces 3 & outs and that should help the offence too.
I don't think I've ever seen anything as bad as the last two weeks against inferior opposition. The second half against Chi was painful to watch and so was much of the Browns game.
I have to start wondering if it's coaching. And if it's not coaching then Eli has started his decline. Too damn bad because almost no one realizes how good this defense is.
This is my worst year ever as a fan and it started with the Tunsil debacle. I said at the time that that would define us for a decade. Sheer unforgiveable stupidity, just because they hadn't counted on it and were frozen with a corporate type of "play safe" policy.
It's not?
Cruz yesterday. A handful of long balls to OBJ. Off the top of my head.
Uhh... we are 8-3, dude. Just sayin'
Maybe you're missing the bright side?
We're all full aware that if they don't perform better, they could bookend that unbeaten November with a winless December.
I do t think that's the case though. Team has surprised all year, is relatively healthy... Great position to make a run.
Exactly
Better question is what's the deal with whoever is coordinating this offense. Game in and game out I swear it's like they are throwing shit on the wall and hoping it sticks. I know there is a game plan but boy oh boy it looks so ill conceived it is hard to watch.
I also sense that we are expecting the defense to get the stops.....so there is no need to push it......
Our offense can show a ton more.......when needed.
I don't think Cruz is a shell of himself at all. He is out of position and the routes he runs are not to his advantage. I've seen him open plenty of times running underneath. Right now he is just clearing out for Shepard or Beckham and Eli occasionally will try to drop a bomb in to him in single coverage. He caught one yesterday and Eli threw another out of bounds.
Eli has never been Mr Accuracy but he ain't bad. But when he fails to complete that open pass a couple/few times per game, the drives stall.
As for the running game, Jennings is just not quick enough. The line isn't consistent opening holes or really maintaining a hole. Jennings is just to slow footed for this line. He is sure handed and an excellent blocker, but Perkins would likely do a better job running behind this line because he is quicker, but not as powerful.
Having guys like OBJ and SS I don't think we will ever be a good Time of Possession team unless we go away from our strengths. Both WR's are capable of taking a 10 or 15 yard crossing route or slant to the house. In theory, if we had OL/TE who could actually block and a RB who could run, our O would be quite lethal. In order to stop the big plays, teams would need to avoid stacking the box. As is, teams are beating our OL with 4 down linemen. When we rush 4 the QB has all day to throw.
the running game has become barely good enough.
overall, Eli is good, but yesterday he was barely good enough overall on the middle to long balls. he missed a lot in that zone. it had little to do with no running game, or no protection. as that zone was always his best throw, that doesn't bode well. To be fair, yseterday was the first we saw a lot of throws to that zone this year, so maybe he's rusty or just getting over an injury
Deep ball plays that look like they have been called-plays seem to get over-ridden by the Cover-2 look or the O-line breaking down. Forcing Eli to look elsewhere.
Deep ball plays that look to be more ad-libs because Eli scrambles around enough or can step up into pocket are not hitting their mark as often. I don't think its hugely down but its down. Probably would point to more footwork issues here as you don't see that smooth release point as in past.
I don't think there is an injury to speak of.
Easiest way to tell is to watch him in warm-ups, and I suspect millions have done so.
Cruz gets as much separated from the defender as a I do on my vertical jump.
You know better than that. You cited facts. Facts confuse many posters.
We are not creating manageable 3rd downs for ourselves. For some reason, we are not seeing enough RB screens either which should be used when we have that 2nd and 12.
Now, none of us know whether we are witnessing the plays that McAdoo is calling or whether Eli is checking out of the original call to something else.
What I am confident of is this. Defenses are manipulating Eli into changing the play to something they would prefer that we run at that moment. They are using his ability to read defenses and change the play against us.
Close scores against superior teams who can always raise it a notch in the last quarters also leads to getting a bad fix on things.
They had to fix the offense or the defense. Some on here would have preferred maximizing the strengths first and shoring up the weaknesses second. In short, building around distinct competitive strengths against almost all opponents in Eli and OBJ last offseason and then fixing the D this coming offseason.
They went the other way. Along the way the kicker.punter, return game and snapper position all regressed.
They did get some improved coaching for the miscommunicaiton, delays of game, no sense of how to close out ( play calling mistakes will happen, they at least have a plan this year and DBs running around with their heads cut off are all down
Maybe the FA/and draft played to fixing the defense first...I dont know.
Injuries are better this year. Luck in close games is reverting to the mean
Biggest possible false positive is yet to be seen. now we play better teams and now the lack of DL depth may hide how much more has to be built. I dont know.
Admidst all of that...Eli does not strike me as the concern. I think the overall OL talent weaknesses combined with their unbalance in skill players combines to shrink just how good any QB can look and play.
imo
Lewis going back to his college days was a homerun threat. Always got behind the secondary and he showed that in the NFL so far. I wouldn't call Lewis a scrub. He seems to have found a home here for the foreseeable future imo
But he's been lucky on several occasions that passes weren't intercepted, including two against the Bears. His accuracy and arm strength seem to have declined, but let's wait until the end of the season for a final decision.
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Drops come into play here also. OBJ, Lewis and Cruz also dropped sure 40 yarders.
40 yards in the air? Or 40 yard completions? A 15yd slant that OBJ winds up taking to the house is not a deep ball.
Well, what about the deep passes to OBJ at the end of the Saints game? Would be TD but OBJ drops it.
Even outside the perfect throw to Cruz and the great throw to Harris for the TD, the opening bomb to Odell was on target and he turned the wrong way and lost the ball. It literally landed two feet beside him.
He played solid yesterday and didn't force too much, knowing the D could pin the Browns back. He's playing smart right now, but I get the feeling, people would rather have him throw for 300+ yards, even if we lose. We saw that a lot last year.
The NYG passing game needs to be short and quick....and in addition the running game is so bad that their short passing game is now their running game.
good post figured id highlight it for others to see as this board and myself really respect your opinion/insight
Eli is not the problem.
Even outside the perfect throw to Cruz and the great throw to Harris for the TD, the opening bomb to Odell was on target and he turned the wrong way and lost the ball. It literally landed two feet beside him.
He played solid yesterday and didn't force too much, knowing the D could pin the Browns back. He's playing smart right now, but I get the feeling, people would rather have him throw for 300+ yards, even if we lose. We saw that a lot last year.
Then the narrative would be that great QB's like Andrew Luck and Aaron Rodgers will their team to victory, and it's all on Eli for not getting the W.
Forget it, Eric...it's Chinatown.
Yeah, I mean the guy threw three TD's, no INT's, and had a QBR over 115.
On the season he has 20 TD's and 10 INT's, 3000 yards, completing 63% of his passes, and a QBR of 93.
All of this with a mediocre line who had two starters out yesterday, no viable TE, no running game, and inconsistent WR play outside of 1 guy.
At this point I'm not sure what the expectation is.
Best Giants QB ever IMO
Best Giants QB ever IMO
I'm glad you brought that up, too.... I saw a lot of "Why is Eli throwing it deep to Roger Lewis of all people!" yesterday...
The answer is simple, as this poster stated.
He was the one who had single coverage.
There seems to be much more hand fighting all the way down the field now between the receiver and the defender and pass interference has to be akin to assault before the flag is thrown.
Just watch almost any game when the QB has time to step up
into the pocket good things happen .
Problem is the D-line almost always has the middle of the
pocket collapsing . There is no room for Eli to step up and
deliver a throw . The play action which Eli also does well
is rarely there because no one fears our Run game .
There is no TE or big bodies WR to make the 7-11 yard 3rd
down plays to move the chains . Look at the amount of tipped balls we have . There is no cohesiveness to the offense its basically Eli playing cat and mouse with the defense trying to find a completion . How many balls has OBJ scooped off the turf to make completions .
Eli Apple does the EXACT same thing (exact) later in the game and gets flagged.
Honestly, I think it's out of control. The irregularity and inconsistency in the calls is seriously taking me out of the game. It's affecting my enjoyment, because it's so frustrating.
The consensus is that Lewis is erratic and Cruz washed up. But last year Randolph was the big man. Effectively speaking we traded Shepard and Cruz for Randolph...and got worse.
I"m not at all optimistic that there's a silver bullet in Mc's holster.
The defense forces 3 & outs and that should help the offence too.
I don't think I've ever seen anything as bad as the last two weeks against inferior opposition. The second half against Chi was painful to watch and so was much of the Browns game.
I have to start wondering if it's coaching. And if it's not coaching then Eli has started his decline. Too damn bad because almost no one realizes how good this defense is.
This is my worst year ever as a fan and it started with the Tunsil debacle. I said at the time that that would define us for a decade. Sheer unforgiveable stupidity, just because they hadn't counted on it and were frozen with a corporate type of "play safe" policy.
It is almost like some crews throw flags without really even seeing the infraction, which makes the no call on Odell even more maddening.
Eli is having a terrific season. I swear this place gets crazier and crankier and hyper analytical by the minute.
They missed one yesterday on Haden, but I still maintain that if Eli wasn't late throwing the ball to ODB,
the PI may not have been an issue at all.
If he gets the throw out quicker like he should have,
ODB would have been past Haden,
hence maybe a TD. He also missed him on the first series,
that would have been a TD. I thought he was average yesterday, bad in the first qtr. I never considered Eli
a great deep ball thrower, they overdid it yesterday,
trying to take shots down the field, when the offense wasn't moving well.
The people complaining about Lewis, did you see him down the ball inside the 5 yard line on a punt. That's why he is playing over a King, ST play.
No targets to Shepard was a bit absurd to me at least.
Eli Apple does the EXACT same thing (exact) later in the game and gets flagged.
Eli Apple is a rook, Haden is not, fair or not, that
is how the cookie crumbles at times in this league.
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early in the game, without turning around and looking for the ball.
Eli Apple does the EXACT same thing (exact) later in the game and gets flagged.
.
Eli Apple is a rook, Haden is not, fair or not, that
is how the cookie crumbles at times in this league.
That is just one of 100's of examples week in, week out.
The defense is really making it hard on the offenses it's playing which gives us great shot in the playoffs......
Just get that ball in OBJ's hands !
The defense is really making it hard on the offenses it's playing which gives us great shot in the playoffs......
Just get that ball in OBJ's hands !
His body is changing.
'Bout time.
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I never considered Eli
a great deep ball thrower,
Are you serious???
We are not creating manageable 3rd downs for ourselves. For some reason, we are not seeing enough RB screens either which should be used when we have that 2nd and 12.
Now, none of us know whether we are witnessing the plays that McAdoo is calling or whether Eli is checking out of the original call to something else.
What I am confident of is this. Defenses are manipulating Eli into changing the play to something they would prefer that we run at that moment. They are using his ability to read defenses and change the play against us.
I'm not what you would call a student of the game but I just don't understand why with having 3rd down and 7 to go we try to run when haven't been able to run so far or throw a pass when if its completed will be short of the first down...