Beckham vs. Brown vs. Jones

So who leads the Falcons in TD's? I could look but it would require effort.

73 rec/1020 yds/10 TDs (14.0 ypc)

I'm still taking Beckham though.

Then Beckham then Julio. I can see the argument for Julio but I have the same issue with him. He isn't a red zone threat. He's probably more of a threat between the 20s and in jump ball scenarios but there are many games where he just disappears.

But the question must be asked: what else does Mike Evans have to continue to do to enter the conversation?

In comment 13237374 giants#1 said:

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73 rec/1020 yds/10 TDs (14.0 ypc) I'm still taking Beckham though.

Haha great minds...

Ryan has thrown TD's to a lot of different players.

Evans for Lacy in my franchise fantasy league...a move which will haunt me the rest of my days..

In comment 13237374 giants#1 said:

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73 rec/1020 yds/10 TDs (14.0 ypc) I'm still taking Beckham though.

He's getting there for sure, but he still has some work to do for me, he's also not nearly as electric with the ball.

Julio - 353 (5.4 yac/rec)
Beckham - 286 (4.4 yac/rec)
Brown - 269 (3.3 yac/rec)
Evans - 108 (1.5 yac/rec)

YAC for Evans is pitiful. For a 6'5" WR, that's like catching the ball and falling forward...

Beckham. His stats might not be as good as Jones or Brown but the eye test tells me something different. He's just on another planet this guy.

In comment 13237387 ryanmkeane said:

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Beckham. His stats might not be as good as Jones or Brown but the eye test tells me something different. He's just on another planet this guy.

That's pretty much my thought as well. Its interesting to think what he'd do in the other 2 offenses.

In comment 13237383 giants#1 said:

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Julio - 353 (5.4 yac/rec) Beckham - 286 (4.4 yac/rec) Brown - 269 (3.3 yac/rec) Evans - 108 (1.5 yac/rec) YAC for Evans is pitiful. For a 6'5" WR, that's like catching the ball and falling forward...

Evans simply isn't the athlete the other guys on the list are. He's just bigger than everyone else.

Mike Evans is making a case to join this group and I have a hard time arguing against people who want to include AJ Green or Amari Cooper. I agree though conventionally Beckham, Jones and Brown are considered the top 3.

Evans has been injured in his career and has had the worst QB situation of all of them, but this year his stats are arguably better or close to all of them.

Many of the BBI experts were convinced Evans wouldn't be able to get separation in the NFL. If that's not getting separation, I'll take it all day long.

In any case, look at the targets.

Evans 133
Brown 121
Beckham 109
Jones 104

The thing I like most about Brown and how the Steelers attack a defense is you know the ball is going to him, the Steelers make a conscious effort to get the ball to Brown and he still gets open and catches the ball. Sure, having a solid (or spectacular) ground game opens things up for Brown that Beckham just doesn't have, but I'd love for the Giants to take more chances letting Beckham make a play on the ball. I see Brown just getting open more vs Beckham making plays on balls - like Mike Evans (and Jones), they makes more plays on balls thrown to them in coverage.

In comment 13237389 UConn4523 said:

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In comment 13237387 ryanmkeane said: Quote: Beckham. His stats might not be as good as Jones or Brown but the eye test tells me something different. He's just on another planet this guy. That's pretty much my thought as well. Its interesting to think what he'd do in the other 2 offenses.

Exactly...with the rate Ben and Matt Ryan are throwing, Beckham would be catching 140 passes a season.

reminds me of a much better version than a Vincent Jackson type player. Big, physical, can simply out muscle you...but doesn't necessarily have that game breaking ability like Beckham or Brown.

For WRs is hard to do but mine would be

1) Brown
2) ODB
3) Julio
4) Green
5) Evans
6)

6) Dez
7) Dtom
8) Hopkins (don't like Brock whatsoever)
9) Cooper
10) Hilton

Gets a bit overlooked in these discussions. He's obviously had Peyton but I think siemien is an extreme on the other end. His combination of size and straight line speed may be the deadliest combo. He's never had elite hands which is probably what prevents him from entering the discussion.

Atlanta is spreading the ball around - the backs have caught a ton of balls. There have been halves where he's been barely targeted. But when they've decided to throw him the ball in heavy doses, he's been borderline unstoppable.

AJ Green is another upper-echelon guy that doesn't get enough respect. Put him in SD with Rivers and his numbers jump dramatically.

Is Brown then Odell then Julio. Odell I think is going to be better then Brown eventually but I have him a tas bit ahead. All three are amazing WRs that any team would give up their first born to have

because no one fights more for a ball in the air than this guy.

had a nice article on Player's Tribune about the toughest WRs he has faced.

http://www.theplayerstribune.com/richard-sherman-seahawks-toughest-receivers-ive-ever-covered/

"In that Week 10 game against the Giants, I had been out on the field for a few plays when Odell came in fresh off the bench. He ran a stop-and-go, and I had it covered pretty well. When he made his first cut, I was right in his pocket.

Then he came out of the second part of his break, and he just exploded — like he had been shot out of a cannon — and he caught the ball for a big gain.

I was like, O.K. Now I know."

Say what you want about him, but Sherman is a smart man and this was a cool article to read.

It's tough to choose between the 3. I think in 2016, Julio has been the best. I think over the last handful of years, Antonio has been the best. I think Odell is the best pure talent at the position.

I just wish we could connect on the deep ball to Odell more often.

In comment 13237392 pjcas18 said:

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Mike Evans is making a case to join this group and I have a hard time arguing against people who want to include AJ Green or Amari Cooper. I agree though conventionally Beckham, Jones and Brown are considered the top 3. Evans has been injured in his career and has had the worst QB situation of all of them, but this year his stats are arguably better or close to all of them. Many of the BBI experts were convinced Evans wouldn't be able to get separation in the NFL. If that's not getting separation, I'll take it all day long. In any case, look at the targets. Evans 133 Brown 121 Beckham 109 Jones 104 The thing I like most about Brown and how the Steelers attack a defense is you know the ball is going to him, the Steelers make a conscious effort to get the ball to Brown and he still gets open and catches the ball. Sure, having a solid (or spectacular) ground game opens things up for Brown that Beckham just doesn't have, but I'd love for the Giants to take more chances letting Beckham make a play on the ball. I see Brown just getting open more vs Beckham making plays on balls - like Mike Evans (and Jones), they makes more plays on balls thrown to them in coverage.

I got lambasted for saying Evans made Manziel, not the other way around. While my statement was a bit facetious as I realize Manziel was pretty electric in college, so man of his throws were errant or jump balls to Evans where he simply dominated the DB. He's a fun player to watch.

In comment 13237466 Bobby Humphrey's Earpad said:

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Atlanta is spreading the ball around - the backs have caught a ton of balls. There have been halves where he's been barely targeted. But when they've decided to throw him the ball in heavy doses, he's been borderline unstoppable. AJ Green is another upper-echelon guy that doesn't get enough respect. Put him in SD with Rivers and his numbers jump dramatically.

He basically has the same targets as Beckham. It still doesn't explain the lack of TD's, though and not just this year.

In comment 13237510 Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy said:

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had a nice article on Player's Tribune about the toughest WRs he has faced. http://www.theplayerstribune.com/richard-sherman-seahawks-toughest-receivers-ive-ever-covered/ "In that Week 10 game against the Giants, I had been out on the field for a few plays when Odell came in fresh off the bench. He ran a stop-and-go, and I had it covered pretty well. When he made his first cut, I was right in his pocket. Then he came out of the second part of his break, and he just exploded — like he had been shot out of a cannon — and he caught the ball for a big gain. I was like, O.K. Now I know." Say what you want about him, but Sherman is a smart man and this was a cool article to read. It's tough to choose between the 3. I think in 2016, Julio has been the best. I think over the last handful of years, Antonio has been the best. I think Odell is the best pure talent at the position. I just wish we could connect on the deep ball to Odell more often.

That's what the PR was like yesterday. He was making cuts at full speed and just pulling away from guys that should've had the angle on him.

In comment 13237511 UConn4523 said:

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In comment 13237392 pjcas18 said: Quote: Mike Evans is making a case to join this group and I have a hard time arguing against people who want to include AJ Green or Amari Cooper. I agree though conventionally Beckham, Jones and Brown are considered the top 3. Evans has been injured in his career and has had the worst QB situation of all of them, but this year his stats are arguably better or close to all of them. Many of the BBI experts were convinced Evans wouldn't be able to get separation in the NFL. If that's not getting separation, I'll take it all day long. In any case, look at the targets. Evans 133 Brown 121 Beckham 109 Jones 104 The thing I like most about Brown and how the Steelers attack a defense is you know the ball is going to him, the Steelers make a conscious effort to get the ball to Brown and he still gets open and catches the ball. Sure, having a solid (or spectacular) ground game opens things up for Brown that Beckham just doesn't have, but I'd love for the Giants to take more chances letting Beckham make a play on the ball. I see Brown just getting open more vs Beckham making plays on balls - like Mike Evans (and Jones), they makes more plays on balls thrown to them in coverage. I got lambasted for saying Evans made Manziel, not the other way around. While my statement was a bit facetious as I realize Manziel was pretty electric in college, so man of his throws were errant or jump balls to Evans where he simply dominated the DB. He's a fun player to watch.

I was saying the same thing too. If you go and watch any of manziels crazy highlight throws the guy catching the ball was always...Mike Evans.

Beckham - 33 in 38 games (1 per 1.15 games)
Brown - 48 in 97 games (1 per 2.02 games)
Jones - 39 in 79 games (1 per 2.03 games)

The TD disparity out of the gates is overwhelmingly in favor of Beckham and he scores every way conceivable. Some

Mike Evans - 25 in 41 games (1 per 1.64 games)
Dez Bryant - 64 in 92 games (1 per 1.44 games)
AJ Green - 49 in 86 games (1 per 1.76 games)

Again, just some food for thought.

In comment 13237585 UConn4523 said:

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Beckham - 33 in 38 games (1 per 1.15 games) Brown - 48 in 97 games (1 per 2.02 games) Jones - 39 in 79 games (1 per 2.03 games) The TD disparity out of the gates is overwhelmingly in favor of Beckham and he scores every way conceivable. Some Mike Evans - 25 in 41 games (1 per 1.64 games) Dez Bryant - 64 in 92 games (1 per 1.44 games) AJ Green - 49 in 86 games (1 per 1.76 games) Again, just some food for thought.

I think that paints Brown unfairly. If you did like TD/route run (which I'm sure is near impossible to find) I think brown would be #1. I don't even think it's that he broke out late, Pittsburgh just has a stable of WRs at all times.

I could be wrong but I think Brown was behind Wallace, ward and sanders when he came into the league. Whoever is Pittsbrughs WR coach is a very accomplished man.

you just have to look at all the factors, not just the stat sheet. If he's going to benefit from being force fed the ball now then I think its pretty realistic to also include the times where he wasn't the focal point of the offense. But you can also just include the last 3 years if you want where he has 33 TD's in 43 games (a 1.3 per game average). You'd have to do this for Dez when being injured, Jones for his foot issues, etc.

There's no right or wrong way to look at it. My previous post was really just to showcase Beckham's absurd start.

and Brown is still way behind Beckham. Brown has 70 starts and 48 TDs (though I'm sure a couple were from games he didn't start) giving him 1.46 starts/TD.

Here's another way: targets/TD
Brown: 18.96
Beckham: 12.03
Jones: 19.26
Evans: 16.12

Beckham. I don't think there's any receiver in history period that has had this start. Gun to my head ODB becomes a better receiver than brown. Just pointing out these last 3 years Brown had has been insane in its own right. There's gotta be some added bonus for how he's been a consistent threat in the punt return game. We saw just how great ODB can be there but I doubt the Giants feel comfortable giving him full time return duties.

watching him is awesome. Him and Beckham do thinks that I've never really seen before. I just wish Beckham got to play in that kind of offense, this discussion likely wouldn't even be close.

The punts is interesting, I hope someone digs in this week about it with McAdoo. Every single game counts and field position matters even more as the weeks go on. I think he should be back there close to full time.

In comment 13237636 UConn4523 said:

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watching him is awesome. Him and Beckham do thinks that I've never really seen before. I just wish Beckham got to play in that kind of offense, this discussion likely wouldn't even be close. The punts is interesting, I hope someone digs in this week about it with McAdoo. Every single game counts and field position matters even more as the weeks go on. I think he should be back there close to full time.

Especially this week. I like how the run game matches up with Bell. I think this game against Pittsburgh is going to be Odell vs Brown. Let Odell get back there, at least for this game.

matches up with bell.

backfield as he is running the ball.

I'm not scared of the Steelers, but there is nothing I like about the matchup against Bell, even if the Giants are generally good against the run.

Certainly wouldn't boil this down to Brown vs Beckham.

Evans as well, but AJ never seems to get his due. I feel he's pretty much as good as Julio/AB/Beckham. I'd definitely put AJ over Cooper and Evans at the moment.

hes my #4 WR. Loved watching him at GA and he's had a damn good career so far. This injury sucks because he was on pace for the best year of his career yardage-wise.

In comment 13237678 pjcas18 said:

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backfield as he is running the ball. I'm not scared of the Steelers, but there is nothing I like about the matchup against Bell, even if the Giants are generally good against the run. Certainly wouldn't boil this down to Brown vs Beckham.

So true. The Steelers have the best RB and WR in the league. The Giants left Crowell open a number of times late, not sure if that was by design for some sort of prevent defense late. But if they leave bell open like that it's game over.

Wouldn't exactly say the Giants have been "burned" by receiving backs but guys like Crowell, howard, and sproles have been left open underneath, which is conceding with Bell on the plate next weekend.

In comment 13237690 UConn4523 said:

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hes my #4 WR. Loved watching him at GA and he's had a damn good career so far. This injury sucks because he was on pace for the best year of his career yardage-wise.

I like him at 4 as well, but one concerning thing I saw at the start of last season was Dalton'a stats throwing at Green. He had a significantly worse passer rating when targeting green (something like a 70 passer rating for his career). I wouldn't chalk it up to just force feeding Green, dalton had some solid receiving options with Jones, Sanu, Eifert and Gio.

I'm sure that wasn't the case this year, Daltons been connecting with Green at the highest rate of his career. But it would be interesting to see what the passer rating of each of these receivers is when they are targeted.

But, I wouldn't take anyone over OBJ and still maintain he is the best offensive player I've ever watched.

9 career multi TD games for Odell
8 career multi TD games for Julio

12 for Brown...

And our offense is really limiting him. But I feel like he's been underwhelming by his standards this season. Only 2 100 yard games, albeit one was for over 200 yards and there were two 95+ yard games. I wish the offense around him was better he'd be even more of a monster.