Stretch in the 1st quarter of good passes and only taking good open shots...he even had a nice steal that he turned into a nice pass to Noah, who passed to KP for a dunk
But Melo can't seem to do that consistently, he's always itching to get back to playing some good old fashioned 1 on 5 and forcing bad shots, then bitching to the refs instead of hustling back on defense
rose and kp had it going in the first and early second Â
Stretch in the 1st quarter of good passes and only taking good open shots...he even had a nice steal that he turned into a nice pass to Noah, who passed to KP for a dunk
But Melo can't seem to do that consistently, he's always itching to get back to playing some good old fashioned 1 on 5 and forcing bad shots, then bitching to the refs instead of hustling back on defense
Agreed. He seems to go stretches where he decides to play ball. The rest of the time he seems to jog up and down and occasionally go for a rebound. His inconsistency kills any type of groove that we could ride.
offense as a result. But he'd rather just get his. He also cares more about his friends on other teams than he does about his own team. Please let him hang on Lebrons or Wades or Paul's coat tails somewhere else.
RE: It's so frustrating. He's doubled so much that he can create so much Â
offense as a result. But he'd rather just get his. He also cares more about his friends on other teams than he does about his own team. Please let him hang on Lebrons or Wades or Paul's coat tails somewhere else.
Couldn't agree more with you. But somehow I knew this years ago He's been a selfish so called superstar since he's been here
But he's been fucking terrible so far. Maybe out of shape due to nagging injuries, but he's useless on offense and got just abused by a couple JAGs on defense and the boards tonight.
kncks were up 11 and rolling and he came in and just chuckdd up shots, loss is solely on him
As you or someone posted earlier, once Westbrook got going, looked like Melo gave up on playing some team basketball to try and play the hero game. I've tried to defend Melo many times over his Knicks tenure, but it's really becoming clear his ego is too big to let this team grow up around him
all these criticisms of the Knicks are valid - but what about Â
Westbrook? He's got a legit shot at averaging a triple double for the season the way he's going. That's only been done once before:
"In the 1961–62 season, Robertson became the only player in NBA history to average a triple-double for an entire season, with 30.8 points, 12.5 rebounds and 11.4 assists."
To me, that would be up there with, say, challenging Joe D's 56 game hitting streak, or flirting with batting .400. It's pretty amazing. Westbrook is playing like a man possessed.
Again - not to excuse the Knicks' flaws tonight ...
he begged for help and he finally has it, rose and kp were playing great the ball movement was great and he was shooting well then all of sudden he switched and tried to take over...
i dont understand why he just cant take a step back when the team is rolling, he should love it, he finally has help
he begged for help and he finally has it, rose and kp were playing great the ball movement was great and he was shooting well then all of sudden he switched and tried to take over...
i dont understand why he just cant take a step back when the team is rolling, he should love it, he finally has help
RE: all these criticisms of the Knicks are valid - but what about Â
Westbrook? He's got a legit shot at averaging a triple double for the season the way he's going. That's only been done once before:
"In the 1961–62 season, Robertson became the only player in NBA history to average a triple-double for an entire season, with 30.8 points, 12.5 rebounds and 11.4 assists."
To me, that would be up there with, say, challenging Joe D's 56 game hitting streak, or flirting with batting .400. It's pretty amazing. Westbrook is playing like a man possessed.
Again - not to excuse the Knicks' flaws tonight ...
No doubt, possessed is the right description for his game tonight. And he really does make everyone around him better
RE: all these criticisms of the Knicks are valid - but what about Â
Westbrook? He's got a legit shot at averaging a triple double for the season the way he's going. That's only been done once before:
"In the 1961–62 season, Robertson became the only player in NBA history to average a triple-double for an entire season, with 30.8 points, 12.5 rebounds and 11.4 assists."
To me, that would be up there with, say, challenging Joe D's 56 game hitting streak, or flirting with batting .400. It's pretty amazing. Westbrook is playing like a man possessed.
Again - not to excuse the Knicks' flaws tonight ...
westbrook is just unbelievable, like harden he is their entire team, when he goes out they have nothing...
i thiught rose did the best job he could on him and then lee in the 4th did not play him bad, knicks just could not grab a rebound
he begged for help and he finally has it, rose and kp were playing great the ball movement was great and he was shooting well then all of sudden he switched and tried to take over...
i dont understand why he just cant take a step back when the team is rolling, he should love it, he finally has help
Because when they fail he gets blamed no matter what.
Knicks win we celebrate and praise KP.
Knicks lose we condemn and blame Melo.
He is the big money guy even though he has now has a bunch of money guys on the team.
Knicks fans are funny that way. They did the same thing with Ewing. Even Hahn said KP should enjoy this period now because there will become a time when the crowd starts booing and moaning at him when his shots aren't falling. Right now he is still the shiny new toy for us.
Has always been a selfish self appointed superstar never living up to expectatations. Donnie Walsh was smart enough not to trade for him but Dolan vetoed him. Jeremy Lin was like the Giants finding Victor Cruz as an undrafted FA but Melo so called ran him and Dantoni out of town
Melos place was always as the second star on a team He could never lead a team by himself cause he doesn't play defense and can't take over a game
Now that he has help with Rose and KP he's still selfish enough to outshoot the Knicks out of most games
I know it could be difficult to trade him which for 5 years I've been hoping for but I hope Hornacek won't be afraid to put his selfish ass on the bench as the second team
I've vented enough tonight
he begged for help and he finally has it, rose and kp were playing great the ball movement was great and he was shooting well then all of sudden he switched and tried to take over...
i dont understand why he just cant take a step back when the team is rolling, he should love it, he finally has help
Because when they fail he gets blamed no matter what.
Knicks win we celebrate and praise KP.
Knicks lose we condemn and blame Melo.
He is the big money guy even though he has now has a bunch of money guys on the team.
Knicks fans are funny that way. They did the same thing with Ewing. Even Hahn said KP should enjoy this period now because there will become a time when the crowd starts booing and moaning at him when his shots aren't falling. Right now he is still the shiny new toy for us.
To be fair to KP, he actually tries to play defense and pass the ball.
Has always been a selfish self appointed superstar never living up to expectatations. Donnie Walsh was smart enough not to trade for him but Dolan vetoed him. Jeremy Lin was like the Giants finding Victor Cruz as an undrafted FA but Melo so called ran him and Dantoni out of town
Melos place was always as the second star on a team He could never lead a team by himself cause he doesn't play defense and can't take over a game
Now that he has help with Rose and KP he's still selfish enough to outshoot the Knicks out of most games
I know it could be difficult to trade him which for 5 years I've been hoping for but I hope Hornacek won't be afraid to put his selfish ass on the bench as the second team
I've vented enough tonight
absolutely none of that is true...
forst off dolan said to walsh that he was not sure about doing the trade and walsh ignored dolan and dantoni and did the trade...
second melo was the one who told dantoni to play lin, as much as dantoni wants everyone to think otherwise...
also melo did not run lin out of town, it was him going back to houston and getting a bigger deal out of houston and him making a business decision in the playoffs and deciding not to play...
walsh screwed up the knicks woth his moves prior to 2010, not the melo trade
I had no illusions about Noah being anything but useless offensively Â
he begged for help and he finally has it, rose and kp were playing great the ball movement was great and he was shooting well then all of sudden he switched and tried to take over...
i dont understand why he just cant take a step back when the team is rolling, he should love it, he finally has help
Because when they fail he gets blamed no matter what.
Knicks win we celebrate and praise KP.
Knicks lose we condemn and blame Melo.
He is the big money guy even though he has now has a bunch of money guys on the team.
Knicks fans are funny that way. They did the same thing with Ewing. Even Hahn said KP should enjoy this period now because there will become a time when the crowd starts booing and moaning at him when his shots aren't falling. Right now he is still the shiny new toy for us.
I don't know about all fans, but I think a lot of us would love to see Melo turn out to be a winner. I had no problem giving him credit for his monster game Friday night when we won.
It just sucks to see so much potential with the youth and athletic ability this team has now, and see long stretches where Melo doesn't seem to want to play team basketball and kills tempo
Has always been a selfish self appointed superstar never living up to expectatations. Donnie Walsh was smart enough not to trade for him but Dolan vetoed him. Jeremy Lin was like the Giants
finding Victor Cruz as an undrafted FA but Melo so called ran him and Dantoni out of town
Melos place was always as the second star on a team He could never lead a team by himself cause he doesn't play defense and can't take over a game
Now that he has help with Rose and KP he's still selfish enough to outshoot the Knicks out of most games
I know it could be difficult to trade him which for 5 years I've been hoping for but I hope Hornacek won't be afraid to put his selfish ass on the bench as the second team
I've vented enough tonight
absolutely none of that is true...
forst off dolan said to walsh that he was not sure about doing the trade and walsh ignored dolan and dantoni and did the trade...
second melo was the one who told dantoni to play lin, as much as dantoni wants everyone to think otherwise...
also melo did not run lin out of town, it was him going back to houston and getting a bigger deal out of houston and him making a business decision in the playoffs and deciding not to play...
walsh screwed up the knicks woth his moves prior to 2010, not the melo trade
I'll only agree with Lin taking that poison pill deal from Houston
Other than that Walsh and Dantoni had this team playing fun basketball and had draft picks and salary cap freedom until the Melo trade
Walsh was NOT on board. It was all Dolan
Walsh was on the right track You should know better than that
Gallinari. Chandler were both players. Mozgiv was young and big and the Knicks had cap space and draft picks
You are just starting to admit that Melo is holding this team back and is not as great as you use to claim he is
Quote:
In comment 13238987 Earl the goat said:
Quote:
Has always been a selfish self appointed superstar never living up to expectatations. Donnie Walsh was smart enough not to trade for him but Dolan vetoed him. Jeremy Lin was like the Giants
finding Victor Cruz as an undrafted FA but Melo so called ran him and Dantoni out of town
Melos place was always as the second star on a team He could never lead a team by himself cause he doesn't play defense and can't take over a game
Now that he has help with Rose and KP he's still selfish enough to outshoot the Knicks out of most games
I know it could be difficult to trade him which for 5 years I've been hoping for but I hope Hornacek won't be afraid to put his selfish ass on the bench as the second team
I've vented enough tonight
absolutely none of that is true...
forst off dolan said to walsh that he was not sure about doing the trade and walsh ignored dolan and dantoni and did the trade...
second melo was the one who told dantoni to play lin, as much as dantoni wants everyone to think otherwise...
also melo did not run lin out of town, it was him going back to houston and getting a bigger deal out of houston and him making a business decision in the playoffs and deciding not to play...
walsh screwed up the knicks woth his moves prior to 2010, not the melo trade
I'll only agree with Lin taking that poison pill deal from Houston
Other than that Walsh and Dantoni had this team playing fun basketball and had draft picks and salary cap freedom until the Melo trade
Walsh was NOT on board. It was all Dolan
Walsh was on the right track You should know better than that
Gallinari. Chandler were both players. Mozgiv was young and big and the Knicks had cap space and draft picks
he begged for help and he finally has it, rose and kp were playing great the ball movement was great and he was shooting well then all of sudden he switched and tried to take over...
i dont understand why he just cant take a step back when the team is rolling, he should love it, he finally has help
Because when they fail he gets blamed no matter what.
Knicks win we celebrate and praise KP.
Knicks lose we condemn and blame Melo.
He is the big money guy even though he has now has a bunch of money guys on the team.
Knicks fans are funny that way. They did the same thing with Ewing. Even Hahn said KP should enjoy this period now because there will become a time when the crowd starts booing and moaning at him when his shots aren't falling. Right now he is still the shiny new toy for us.
To be fair to KP, he actually tries to play defense and pass the ball.
His help defense is nice but he too was bad on man to man defense and got crushed on the boards. Kanter absolutely manhandled him on the boards when he came in grabbed 12 rebounds while KP finished with 5 rebounds. That can't happen. Noah is just as bad but IMO he is close to done.
Hornacek briefly talked about how our bigs need to get mean and play mean even if they are getting shoved in the back.
To be fair to KP, he actually tries to play defense and pass the ball.
His help defense is nice but he too was bad on man to man defense and got crushed on the boards. Kanter absolutely manhandled him on the boards when he came in grabbed 12 rebounds while KP finished with 5 rebounds. That can't happen. Noah is just as bad but IMO he is close to done.
Hornacek briefly talked about how our bigs need to get mean and play mean even if they are getting shoved in the back.
He's in his second year. Melo is in his 14th. One gets more leeway as far as completeness of game is concerned.
To be fair to KP, he actually tries to play defense and pass the ball.
His help defense is nice but he too was bad on man to man defense and got crushed on the boards. Kanter absolutely manhandled him on the boards when he came in grabbed 12 rebounds while KP finished with 5 rebounds. That can't happen. Noah is just as bad but IMO he is close to done.
Hornacek briefly talked about how our bigs need to get mean and play mean even if they are getting shoved in the back.
He's in his second year. Melo is in his 14th. One gets more leeway as far as completeness of game is concerned.
Has always been a selfish self appointed superstar never living up to expectatations. Donnie Walsh was smart enough not to trade for him but Dolan vetoed him. Jeremy Lin was like the Giants
finding Victor Cruz as an undrafted FA but Melo so called ran him and Dantoni out of town
Melos place was always as the second star on a team He could never lead a team by himself cause he doesn't play defense and can't take over a game
Now that he has help with Rose and KP he's still selfish enough to outshoot the Knicks out of most games
I know it could be difficult to trade him which for 5 years I've been hoping for but I hope Hornacek won't be afraid to put his selfish ass on the bench as the second team
I've vented enough tonight
absolutely none of that is true...
forst off dolan said to walsh that he was not sure
I'll only agree with Lin taking that poison pill deal from Houston
Other than that Walsh and Dantoni had this team playing fun basketball and had draft picks and salary cap freedom until the Melo trade
Walsh was NOT on board. It was all Dolan
Walsh was on the right track You should know better than that
Gallinari. Chandler were both players. Mozgiv was young and big and the Knicks had cap space and draft picks
you are wrong, walsh already admitted he did the deal against the wishes of dolan and dantoni...
he admitted this the other day in an interview, he was the sole reason for the melo deal
Due to how he's had to shoulder the load for the team over the past 6 years. He had one of his best games on Friday, shit the bed Saturday and looked like he wanted to make up for it tonight. Hornacek needs to talk to him and tell him at moments like these, he needs to be Olympic Melo and let Rose, KP and whoever else set him up to get his shot going. Despite his shit play, he looks to have already developed some nice chemistry with Hernangorgeous on the PnR.
Noah is STILL in recovery mode it seems, trying to get his legs back. Just look at his FTs. Despite his igly ass shot, he's a career 71% shooter from the stripe. What's he at this year? 30%? It'll come back to him - I just think the illness set him back a bit, but I think he can still be super effective. As of last week, he was at career highs as far as per-36 numbers, and the disparity in overall team play was big time in his favor when he was on the court vs off the court.
Does Melo even attack the basket now? 95% of his shots are from the Â
perimeter. When he's cold, he's pretty much useless, someone has to remind him to facilitate more. The problem is he is fixated on getting a rhythem going rather than setting up others when he's cold. He's shot us into and out of games plenty of times, before we didn't have a choice but that's no longer the case. What's worse is that he doesn't seem to care, furthermore he'd exacerbate things by not hustling on defense and allowing easy baskets.
I used to be a fan, now I say trade him if we can.
They get raped on the glass, give up 112 points, Â
as Westbrook is probably the best PG in the NBA but a majority of the Knicks defensive issues stem from the inability of rose to play effective pick and roll defense.
https://youtu.be/XLoX6CErQoA
Yes I know those are highlights which only show the plays Westbrook made but this fits the "eye test" from what I see from Rose on the defensive end. If the goal is to make noise in the playoffs Rose will have to matchup against the likes of Kyrie, Thomas, Kemba and Lowry.
The fact that no one on the court understands rotations doesn't help, but rose is pretty horrendous in his own right on defense.
But I suppose people will continue to believe what they want to believe.
Westbrook put a little saddle on the entire Knicks team and rode them around the arena - celebrating his greatness.
Someone should have nailed him going to the hoop, not dirty not cheap, just a hard body foul. He had no problem putting his shoulder into Knick players.
Playing Noah allows defenders to double-team the ball Â
Noah does not require a defender. This will kill the Knicks all year. Suddenly, the Knicks have no offensive center, unless either Hernangomez learns the NBA really fast, or they move KP to center and play Lee and Melo at forward.
that no one get's a pass - just like school ball, AAU, college
et.
Those who are not running the teams offense and are stinking up the joint need to sit.
Seems like he was afraid to take Melo out on Saturday and Melo was clearly tired and way off, and last night when the ball movement and momentum died with Melo he should have been shown the bench.
but i wish he would go to boston, they are desperate for a name superstar...
crowder and brooklyns 1st is a deal i would do in a second...
melo right now just doesnt seem to want to take a step back and play off the ball..
last night rose was hot and melo continued to take the ball up the court..
I would 100% not do that if I were Boston.
it was rumored that that was the package boston offered but it never went anywhere because melo said no ..
and ainge is desperate he is going to make a stupid trade soon
Rumored last year or this year? I think the Horford signing might've changed things. Crowder might be one of the last guys Ainge would be willing to part with. Maybe he'd do it for some combination of olynyk, smart, Amir Johnson and maybe brown.
But the more I think of it the more I doubt Stevens would be eager to toss in Melo into the lineup. Their biggest need is a dominant Big that can grab boards and protect the paint. Melo doesn't really fit the bill.
that no one get's a pass - just like school ball, AAU, college
et.
Those who are not running the teams offense and are stinking up the joint need to sit.
Seems like he was afraid to take Melo out on Saturday and Melo was clearly tired and way off, and last night when the ball movement and momentum died with Melo he should have been shown the bench.
Two set's of rules never work.
i thought the rose lee holiday kp noah lineip started playimg well in the 4th, i think he should of kept melo on the bench...
holiday in my opinion needs more minutes
RE: RE: RE: RE: i have never been a trade melo guy Â
but i wish he would go to boston, they are desperate for a name superstar...
crowder and brooklyns 1st is a deal i would do in a second...
melo right now just doesnt seem to want to take a step back and play off the ball..
last night rose was hot and melo continued to take the ball up the court..
I would 100% not do that if I were Boston.
it was rumored that that was the package boston offered but it never went anywhere because melo said no ..
and ainge is desperate he is going to make a stupid trade soon
Rumored last year or this year? I think the Horford signing might've changed things. Crowder might be one of the last guys Ainge would be willing to part with. Maybe he'd do it for some combination of olynyk, smart, Amir Johnson and maybe brown.
But the more I think of it the more I doubt Stevens would be eager to toss in Melo into the lineup. Their biggest need is a dominant Big that can grab boards and protect the paint. Melo doesn't really fit the bill.
ainge is actively looking for a superstar..
that team as currently constructed has a ceiling, they have the draft picks to swing for the fences..
not saying it will be for melo but i guarentee they will trade for somebody
many executives don't think cousins will be in Sacramento come march. I can't think of a better match, for both sides. Boston seems willing to unload as many picks/assets for a star as they can, even if he's on an expiring deal.
is eligible for an in-season extension of roughly 3 years 75 million, Berman claims they might consider this late in the season but not right now. I'd like to move on from Rose long term but this seems like the smartest approach. If he plays well all season and stays healthy you revisit this. Right now it would be absolute lunacy
If Boston would take Melo and Melo would take Boston Â
is eligible for an in-season extension of roughly 3 years 75 million, Berman claims they might consider this late in the season but not right now. I'd like to move on from Rose long term but this seems like the smartest approach. If he plays well all season and stays healthy you revisit this. Right now it would be absolute lunacy
yeah you can not do it now, but if you plan on bringing him back, it would be smart to do it in season,
is eligible for an in-season extension of roughly 3 years 75 million, Berman claims they might consider this late in the season but not right now. I'd like to move on from Rose long term but this seems like the smartest approach. If he plays well all season and stays healthy you revisit this. Right now it would be absolute lunacy
Is there a deadline? If the Knicks are out of it by the trade deadline I think there's a legitimate chance of at least the discussions of Melo moving on. Again, don't know who would trade for him at this point but at this rate teams will give at least starting low ball offers for him considering his contract isn't really that bad. .
If you move on from Melo it Doesn't make much sense to keep Rose around. There's really no FAs that the Knicks can get/would be willing to come here to help them compete.
Rose played well offensively, but still forced it Â
a little too much for my taste. If he doesn't get to the rim, I'd rather he didn't shoot unless there is no time on the clock. Defensively, I thought he's been sort of lazy the last few games. As was pointed out above, he's lazy to get through or around picks. His instincts are good which allows him to steal passes and get some blocks, but he needs a better effort on defense, IMO. Melo just needs some effort. I am so sick of that flying 1 armed swat that rarely works instead of just bodying up.
Regarding any trade with melo, it's not happening. I cannot see melo agreeing to go anywhere unless the knicks are terrible come trade deadline and melo feels immense pressures. Without his blessing, whats the point of discussing?
is eligible for an in-season extension of roughly 3 years 75 million, Berman claims they might consider this late in the season but not right now. I'd like to move on from Rose long term but this seems like the smartest approach. If he plays well all season and stays healthy you revisit this. Right now it would be absolute lunacy
Is there a deadline? If the Knicks are out of it by the trade deadline I think there's a legitimate chance of at least the discussions of Melo moving on. Again, don't know who would trade for him at this point but at this rate teams will give at least starting low ball offers for him considering his contract isn't really that bad. .
If you move on from Melo it Doesn't make much sense to keep Rose around. There's really no FAs that the Knicks can get/would be willing to come here to help them compete.
No mention of a deadline. Here is the blurb
According to an NBA source, the Knicks have not approached Rose about an extension, but have not ruled it out for late in the season. The Knicks apparently want to make sure his body holds up across a full season and would be willing to pay more this summer if they had to.
Rose is the 14th-highest paid player in the NBA this season at $21.3 million. If he signs an extension now, next season’s salary begin at $23 million. His wage would go to $24.6M in Year 2 and $26.2M in Year 3.
Not bad — unless you believe Rose will play his way into a max deal this summer, considering the escalating salary cap and ridiculous pacts being dispensed.
If he waits until this summer, Rose’s maximum starting salary could be as high as $29 million. That would allow him a chance to sign a 5-year package worth $175 million if he stays with the Knicks — four years if he leaves.
Rose, 28, said he wanted to learn more about those specifics. Players in similar boats are Utah’s George Hill and Derrick Favors and Indiana’s Paul George. Link - ( New Window )
take the 3 years now than the 5 years later. Regardless of how well he plays now I want 0.0% part of age 32-34 rose.
Let someone else pay him big money. He's been okay this year but hes horrendous on defense. I'd rather pay Jennings and bring in another backup.
I'm completely on board but both you and I know that Rose will be back in Knicks uniform for more than just this season. I'd rather that be 3 years than 5. 2 would be ideal but he would never accept that.
I know its beyond a longshot for him to get traded this year but lets just have fun with it. Possible destinations.
Clippers- could actually really help that team but Knicks wouldn't get much back. Probably Redick and Jamal Crawford to match salaries. Would you do it?
Toronto- Definitely fits in their team and Raptors have plenty to trade. Would be shocked if he waived his no trade to go there.
Miami- Looks like they are tanking.
Lakers- young, up and coming team. Doubt they are trading for Melo.
Milwaukee- Melo and Kidd are close but I doubt he waives his no trade to go here.
Houston- They wanted him bad as a FA but with D'Antoni there its not happening.
Chicago- Could see him waiving his no trade to go play with Wade. Taj Gibson and cap filler?
Cavs- I always thought this could be a good on court fit and was really hoping the 3way trade with Boston and Love would happen this past offseason. Love seems pretty entrenched there now though and the Cavs are rolling. Would they trade Frye/ Dunleavy/ Shumpert type package to bring Melo in? Not sure they could fit everyone and would hurt their depth.
Boston- I just don't see Melo wanting to go there.
Only realistic options seem to be Chicago and the Clippers.
What do you guys think?
IMO it is too early to know which way to go with Rose Â
I'd learn towards letting him sign elsewhere...don't want to blow up more cap space on an aging star.
That said, he's clearly healthy right now and playing hard, and we haven't had a PG with this kind of ability often since the early 70s. Marbury played at this level for a little while before he got weird.
Would love to dump Noah on someone, but good luck with that
If we were going to trade Melo, the time was 2 years ago when his value was higher. I think it would be hard to find a taker (sucker) now
I know its beyond a longshot for him to get traded this year but lets just have fun with it. Possible destinations.
Clippers- could actually really help that team but Knicks wouldn't get much back. Probably Redick and Jamal Crawford to match salaries. Would you do it?
Toronto- Definitely fits in their team and Raptors have plenty to trade. Would be shocked if he waived his no trade to go there.
Miami- Looks like they are tanking.
Lakers- young, up and coming team. Doubt they are trading for Melo.
Milwaukee- Melo and Kidd are close but I doubt he waives his no trade to go here.
Houston- They wanted him bad as a FA but with D'Antoni there its not happening.
Chicago- Could see him waiving his no trade to go play with Wade. Taj Gibson and cap filler?
Cavs- I always thought this could be a good on court fit and was really hoping the 3way trade with Boston and Love would happen this past offseason. Love seems pretty entrenched there now though and the Cavs are rolling. Would they trade Frye/ Dunleavy/ Shumpert type package to bring Melo in? Not sure they could fit everyone and would hurt their depth.
Boston- I just don't see Melo wanting to go there.
Only realistic options seem to be Chicago and the Clippers.
What do you guys think?
Clips- they would not do that. It's gonna be weird to say but I think Reddick is much more valuable to their team than Melo would be. He requires 0 ball dominance and can single handedly win them games by hitting open 3s CP3 sets up for him. They may arguably be the 3rd or even 2nd best team in the NBA right now.
Toronto- Who would they offer? I think it would take Ross + Poetl + Nogiera + Powell to get it done. Which isn't an awful haul, but I don't know if both sides would do it.
Milwaukee- They already have their Melo in Jabari Parkersburg
Cavs- lol hell no. They just won the championship with Love accepting a lesser role but contributing on the glass in the finals series. I think he's flat out better than Melo at this point.
Chicago- No chance in hell. They have arguably the 3 most ball dominant players at the PG, SG, and SF positions in the league. Makes no sense to trade for Melo.
destination for Melo at this point. Maybe something comes up over the summer as teams could potentially absorb him into cap space - but even that is tricky as the cap is not expected to rise as much as originally thought. If I had to bet, I'd say he opts out of his deal after next season and leaves.
but I have no faith in this team right now until they find a HC that preaches defense first. I love the young talent and I can even live some of the vets but the Knicks aren't going anywhere with this style of play. Simple as that.
Bring in a real HC please. Let Horn win 48 games for an over achieving team out west.
RE: the long term prognosis of this team looks good Â
destination for Melo at this point. Maybe something comes up over the summer as teams could potentially absorb him into cap space - but even that is tricky as the cap is not expected to rise as much as originally thought. If I had to bet, I'd say he opts out of his deal after next season and leaves.
You are probably right but do you see Melo leaving 28 mill on the table to opt out at the age of 34?
Time for Holiday, big Willy, and Kuzmingas to play more. On the bright side, I have been impressed with Lee and think it will turn out to be a very good signing.
RE: the long term prognosis of this team looks good Â
but I have no faith in this team right now until they find a HC that preaches defense first. I love the young talent and I can even live some of the vets but the Knicks aren't going anywhere with this style of play. Simple as that.
Bring in a real HC please. Let Horn win 48 games for an over achieving team out west.
Long term, the prognosis is murky at best. We have the foundational player, but little else in terms of long term assets that is a sure thing. The Wolves, Jazz, Sixers, Lakers all have a much bigger foundation to build off of them we do for the future. Having said that, Hornacek is definitely not the problem. Personnel is and the vision of what this team is. Phil has no idea and keeps changing it up. It all falls on him.
destination for Melo at this point. Maybe something comes up over the summer as teams could potentially absorb him into cap space - but even that is tricky as the cap is not expected to rise as much as originally thought. If I had to bet, I'd say he opts out of his deal after next season and leaves.
You are probably right but do you see Melo leaving 28 mill on the table to opt out at the age of 34?
it all depends on who has cap room. Maybe he opts out and takes something like 2/50 or 3/60 with player options from another team...or something like that.
Up until Saturday, Melo had been having one of the more efficient season in his career at a high usage rate. Two bad games doesn't suddenly erase the previous 15. Now with KP on the team, he's getting Ewing treatment from fans. The guy has been the focal point of every team he has played on for 13 years.
As for the Rose defense stuff, that's kind of more nonsense as well. Rose's defense has been much better over the past 5+ games. As for PnR defense - that's been the Knicks' weakness the entire year. Obviously they still need to work on it, especially given that their "defensive anchor" is still getting his legs and learning about his teammates each game.
As for Noah being a black hole on offense, do we not remember Tyson Chandler? Yes, his shooting % by the basket was quite good, but he was confined to mainly dunks and layups. On offense he still needs to cut to the basket more, but again - it will require time to fine tune the offense. And not to mention his passing is probably tops for his position in the entire NBA. The fact that people are outraged by him making $18M per year, in a league where Timofey Mozgov and Ian Mahinmi are each making $16M per year, it makes me believe that some fans really lack any critical analysis skills. Will that contract look worse in the 3rd or 4th years? Most likely, yea. But it won't be the albatross-type deal that has been associated with this organization since the early 2000s.
RE: RE: the long term prognosis of this team looks good Â
In comment 13239494 Enzo said:
[quote] In comment 13239483 djm said:
Quote:
I love the young talent
young talent? There's exactly TWO players on this roster that one could reasonably call "young talent". [/quote
I'd add cheese to the mix even though he's 28 or so. He's cost controlled and pretty solid. Even O'quinn is pretty young.
Honestly, you're missing the point anyway. KP is enough to say the Knicks have a bright future. I know that means giving Jackson a shred of credit...sorry.
RE: the long term prognosis of this team looks good Â
but I have no faith in this team right now until they find a HC that preaches defense first. I love the young talent and I can even live some of the vets but the Knicks aren't going anywhere with this style of play. Simple as that.
Bring in a real HC please. Let Horn win 48 games for an over achieving team out west.
Thibs preaches defense. Minnesota is already regretting that contract. Hes made Towns into a jump shooter.
RE: RE: the long term prognosis of this team looks good Â
but I have no faith in this team right now until they find a HC that preaches defense first. I love the young talent and I can even live some of the vets but the Knicks aren't going anywhere with this style of play. Simple as that.
Bring in a real HC please. Let Horn win 48 games for an over achieving team out west.
Long term, the prognosis is murky at best. We have the foundational player, but little else in terms of long term assets that is a sure thing. The Wolves, Jazz, Sixers, Lakers all have a much bigger foundation to build off of them we do for the future. Having said that, Hornacek is definitely not the problem. Personnel is and the vision of what this team is. Phil has no idea and keeps changing it up. It all falls on him.
I disagree that Horn isn't the problem. When guys aren't getting back on D time and time again I go right to the HC every time.
We need a real HC. I will keep saying it. Horn is a nice guy...hard worker. Damn good player. Maybe he's got a place in the NBA but he's not the guy that will turn the Knicks around. The Knicks need a General Patton. Horn isn't that guy. And it's as clear as day.
I saw the Knicks give up a fast break basket AFTER they actually scored. The system is catering to the offensive mentality that players love. IT's not going to work. I guarantee it.
RE: RE: RE: the long term prognosis of this team looks good Â
I'd add cheese to the mix even though he's 28 or so.
He's cost controlled and pretty solid. he's controlled for one year after this. Even O'quinn is pretty young.
I like both of these guys but at best they are bench players on a good team. And what are the chances both are still on the roster 2 years from now?
Quote:
Honestly, you're missing the point anyway. KP is enough to say the Knicks have a bright future.
Anthony Davis would like a word with you.
Quote:
I know that means giving Jackson a shred of credit...sorry.
He trusted his scouts and nailed a lottery pick. Good for him. Unfortunately it takes a lot more than that to build a consistent winner.
the focus on Rose and yet Noah has basically been ignored. This signing looks brutal right about now. He's looking like a guy who will go down in Knicks lore as yet another "get paid by the Knicks at the twilight of your career".
the years Harden and Westbrook are having. Their numbers are generational. And yet, something about it seems superficial. I mean you have guys like Lebron, Butler, Durant, Curry wont even get MVP consideration - but actually might be having better years, just a lot less usage. Anthony Davis made a mistake signing long term in NO. Just wasting his career there.
Crazy start to the NBA year. But in reality, everyone is still playing for 2nd in their conference which really has put a dull on the season.
If he ever masters a jump shot, he'll go from star to generational player.
Agreed. He has the potential to be the kind of player where for a decade "he could be the next Greek Freak!" He's truly freakish. Bucks are a weird team and are missing their 2nd best player (for likely most of the season) but they could quietly be pretty dangerous. Ideally they would find a taker for Monroe. How many teams have a better young trio than GF, Parker, Middleton with Henson being solid, Brogdan looking solid and Maker a major wild card? Being without Middleton is killer.
Agreed but I'd rather have useful pieces aka trade value than not. Like I said, if Middleton weren't hurt I suspect they would be near the top of the Eastern Conference (not exactly a stretch when the 3 seed is 3 games ahead of them).
RE: RE: RE: RE: the long term prognosis of this team looks good Â
I'd add cheese to the mix even though he's 28 or so.
He's cost controlled and pretty solid. he's controlled for one year after this. Even O'quinn is pretty young.
I like both of these guys but at best they are bench players on a good team. And what are the chances both are still on the roster 2 years from now?
Quote:
Honestly, you're missing the point anyway. KP is enough to say the Knicks have a bright future.
Anthony Davis would like a word with you.
Quote:
I know that means giving Jackson a shred of credit...sorry.
He trusted his scouts and nailed a lottery pick. Good for him. Unfortunately it takes a lot more than that to build a consistent winner.
Great. And I still love the young talent on this team. Go shit in someone else's cheerios.
RE: RE: the Bucks seem to have a lot of useful pieces Â
Agreed but I'd rather have useful pieces aka trade value than not. Like I said, if Middleton weren't hurt I suspect they would be near the top of the Eastern Conference (not exactly a stretch when the 3 seed is 3 games ahead of them).
I guess this may be me being ignorant of how to run a very small market team but the Bucks have some very questionable signings in terms of contracts and usage.
Right now they have $65M a year (!!!!) committed to Monroe, Henson, plumlee, delladova, teletovic and Sanders (I know he was stretch waived). Do any of those players outside Delly get more than 20 minutes a game? It seems like the Bucks paid literally any young-ish talent they came across before they had the opportunity to trade them.
Im not exactly sure if any of those guys have any trade value either (maybe Henson?).
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: the long term prognosis of this team looks good Â
I'd add cheese to the mix even though he's 28 or so.
He's cost controlled and pretty solid. he's controlled for one year after this. Even O'quinn is pretty young.
I like both of these guys but at best they are bench players on a good team. And what are the chances both are still on the roster 2 years from now?
Quote:
Honestly, you're missing the point anyway. KP is enough to say the Knicks have a bright future.
Anthony Davis would like a word with you.
Quote:
I know that means giving Jackson a shred of credit...sorry.
He trusted his scouts and nailed a lottery pick. Good for him. Unfortunately it takes a lot more than that to build a consistent winner.
Great. And I still love the young talent on this team. Go shit in someone else's cheerios.
Well in reality there's very little young talent on this team. Maybe preach your bullshit somewhere else?
RE: RE: RE: the Bucks seem to have a lot of useful pieces Â
Agreed but I'd rather have useful pieces aka trade value than not. Like I said, if Middleton weren't hurt I suspect they would be near the top of the Eastern Conference (not exactly a stretch when the 3 seed is 3 games ahead of them).
I guess this may be me being ignorant of how to run a very small market team but the Bucks have some very questionable signings in terms of contracts and usage.
Right now they have $65M a year (!!!!) committed to Monroe, Henson, plumlee, delladova, teletovic and Sanders (I know he was stretch waived). Do any of those players outside Delly get more than 20 minutes a game? It seems like the Bucks paid literally any young-ish talent they came across before they had the opportunity to trade them.
Im not exactly sure if any of those guys have any trade value either (maybe Henson?).
In fairness the Bucks NEED to overpay to keep/sign players given their market. Delladova looked ridiculous but Monroe looked like a solid signing price wise (not so much fit) and Henson makes basically half of what Noah does. They were clearly betting on his upside
"It's also about time that Henson gets a chance at steady playing time after displaying tons of potential in smaller roles. Over the last three seasons, Henson has averaged 15 points, 10.2 rebounds and 2.7 blocks per 36 minutes. The only four players who blocked more shots per game than Henson last season were Anthony Davis, Serge Ibaka, Rudy Gobert and DeAndre Jordan. Henson, meanwhile, played just 18 minutes per game."
hard to see how Minny is 5-12 with the talent on that team. Despite their record I don't think we match up that well with them.
Ehh yes they have talent but they atill do not play together and they are mainly offensive players, who are their good defensive players besides towns?
knicks should sweep this home and home..
RE: RE: the Bucks seem to have a lot of useful pieces Â
Agreed but I'd rather have useful pieces aka trade value than not. Like I said, if Middleton weren't hurt I suspect they would be near the top of the Eastern Conference (not exactly a stretch when the 3 seed is 3 games ahead of them).
they had middleton last year and they still sucked...
they screwed up when they traded knight away and it completely killed their team...
hard to see how Minny is 5-12 with the talent on that team. Despite their record I don't think we match up that well with them.
Ehh yes they have talent but they atill do not play together and they are mainly offensive players, who are their good defensive players besides towns?
knicks should sweep this home and home..
According to sgcrts, Rubio is the best defensive point guard in the NBA. Dieng is a good defender as well. And we all know how athletic Lavine and Wiggins are. People need to realize that Thibs is really not that good of a coach.
had MASSIVE talent but is clearly a headcase, hard to really blame the Bucks for that one.
Sanders seems like he was a guy who played basketball just because he was a huge, athletic man, not because he actually enjoyed it. Tony Bennett kicked our big transfer Austin Nichols off of UVA's roster last week, allegedly for cocaine problems, and "insiders" have said the same thing about him - he played because he was 6'9" and could get a scholarship for it, but he really didn't want to play basketball all that much.
RE: RE: RE: next up, @ Minnesota on Weds. night - Â
hard to see how Minny is 5-12 with the talent on that team. Despite their record I don't think we match up that well with them.
Ehh yes they have talent but they atill do not play together and they are mainly offensive players, who are their good defensive players besides towns?
knicks should sweep this home and home..
According to sgcrts, Rubio is the best defensive point guard in the NBA. Dieng is a good defender as well. And we all know how athletic Lavine and Wiggins are. People need to realize that Thibs is really not that good of a coach.
I absolutely never said that but Rubio is absolutely one of the best defensive PGs in the NBA. I'm not surprised you don't know that because you are absolutely one of the dumbest posters on BBI.
RE: RE: RE: the Bucks seem to have a lot of useful pieces Â
Agreed but I'd rather have useful pieces aka trade value than not. Like I said, if Middleton weren't hurt I suspect they would be near the top of the Eastern Conference (not exactly a stretch when the 3 seed is 3 games ahead of them).
they had middleton last year and they still sucked...
they screwed up when they traded knight away and it completely killed their team...
monroe is a center who plays zero defense..
Giannis and Jabari were both 20 years old and Jabari was coming off an ACL injury. In other words, they were both the same exact age of KP (Giannis probably just as raw). If you can't recognize the strides both players have made then I don't know what to say. You don't need Carmelo Anthony or Derrick Rose on your team to develop young players.
At the end of the day they finished pretty much exactly where the Knicks finished last year and right now don't seem far off from NY either...
They have a bright future. A lot of people forget that profession in the NBA isn't always linear. It's the same thing happening with the Wolves right now. If you look at the Wolves net rating, they are positive every quarter but have a massive net negative in the third, like -35 or something. I'm not sold on Wiggins as much more then Rudy Gay part 2 until he makes some other contributions, but it's still a team with a huge upside. If they figured out how to start the second half with more energy, their record would be totally different. It'll happen.
Giannis: 18.8 PER 17.2 ppg, 4.4 apg, 7.8 rpg
Jabari: 14.8 PER 16 ppg, 1.9 apg, 4.1 rpg
Middleton: 16.8 PER 18.2 ppg, 4.2 apg, 3.8 rpg (not to mention one of the best perimeter defenders in the league)
2016:
Giannis: 25.4 PER 22.8 ppg, 6.2 apg, 7 rpg
Jabari: 18 PER 18.6 ppg, 2.3 apg, 6.1 rpg (37% from 3)
So yes, like Dan mentioned, I absolutely think they could be a top 4 seed had they had Middleton. The reason the Knight trade fucked them over was because Middleton was the only one capable of shooting 3s on the roster (40% career 3 point shooter). Now Jabari's 3 point shot is coming along. Brogdon and and Delly are more than capable 3 point shooters as well. If this Bucks team can become even average at shooting 3s I think they can be a powerhouse in the East with their length, athleticism, defense, and rebounding prowess.
RE: RE: RE: RE: next up, @ Minnesota on Weds. night - Â
I absolutely never said that but Rubio is absolutely one of the best defensive PGs in the NBA. I'm not surprised you don't know that because you are absolutely one of the dumbest posters on BBI.
the defensive prowess of Rubio and denies ever saying that when its proven untrue. Must suck going through life not being able to man up and admit you are wrong.
But I wouldn't say he's a "more than capable" three point shooter. He's okay. 36% for his college career, 39% last season, 33% now in the NBA. His shot has a tendency to get too flat.
Brogs has a peerless work ethic, a huge wingspan, and outstanding BBIQ. He's very strong for a guard and plays an unselfish game. Won't ever be a star, but can be a valuable guy in a winning team's rotation.
the defensive prowess of Rubio and denies ever saying that when its proven untrue. Must suck going through life not being able to man up and admit you are wrong.
How dumb are you? I literally just said Rubio is one of the best defensive PGs in the NBA. I'm not even sure how that's arguable.
But I wouldn't say he's a "more than capable" three point shooter. He's okay. 36% for his college career, 39% last season, 33% now in the NBA. His shot has a tendency to get too flat.
Brogs has a peerless work ethic, a huge wingspan, and outstanding BBIQ. He's very strong for a guard and plays an unselfish game. Won't ever be a star, but can be a valuable guy in a winning team's rotation.
36% is above average if he translate that into the league. Its enough to make you respectable from range and keep the defense honest.
You sure have a lot of opinions on a lot of players who you never watch.
Guys I never watch? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAH. I watch more games in a week than you do in a year. You even admitted last year you don't watch many games. And now you're claiming I dont? You're a special kind of person who rides a short bus every day.
Hey maybe rubio's defense with thibs, two bigs who can defense, and two atheltic wings can lead them into the top 20 of defense this year.
I don't watch the NBA. I watched more twolves games than bulls games last year.
By far the dumbest person on thr board is you. You're a running joke. Must have killed you seeing rose play well in a loss. Double whammy for you. But then again, I doubt you watched the game.
was break up that second unit. He had O'Quinn playing with them as Hernangomez came in for Noah. I think he needs to keep the Euro players together with Jennings. O'Quinn can take some of Noah's minutes, not Hernangomez taking Noah's and then O'Quinn taking Hernangomez's.
You sure have a lot of opinions on a lot of players who you never watch.
Guys I never watch? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAH. I watch more games in a week than you do in a year. You even admitted last year you don't watch many games. And now you're claiming I dont? You're a special kind of person who rides a short bus every day.
Hey maybe rubio's defense with thibs, two bigs who can defense, and two atheltic wings can lead them into the top 20 of defense this year.
I don't watch the NBA. I watched more twolves games than bulls games last year.
By far the dumbest person on thr board is you. You're a running joke. Must have killed you seeing rose play well in a loss. Double whammy for you. But then again, I doubt you watched the game.
Seriously, go fuck yourself and play in traffic or something. I never said any of the shit you think you I said, and you are a pathetic liar. I'm not even sure why you are bring up Rubio or Thibs, since no one but you is discussing them over and over and over and over.........and over and over.
You sure have a lot of opinions on a lot of players who you never watch.
Guys I never watch? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAH. I watch more games in a week than you do in a year. You even admitted last year you don't watch many games. And now you're claiming I dont? You're a special kind of person who rides a short bus every day.
Hey maybe rubio's defense with thibs, two bigs who can defense, and two atheltic wings can lead them into the top 20 of defense this year.
I don't watch the NBA. I watched more twolves games than bulls games last year.
By far the dumbest person on thr board is you. You're a running joke. Must have killed you seeing rose play well in a loss. Double whammy for you. But then again, I doubt you watched the game.
Seriously, go fuck yourself and play in traffic or something. I never said any of the shit you think you I said, and you are a pathetic liar. I'm not even sure why you are bring up Rubio or Thibs, since no one but you is discussing them over and over and over and over.........and over and over.
Was thibs not discussed a lot this offseason? And And didn't And didn't djm mention wanting a defensive minded coach in this thread? And isn't thibs a d coach who's not having success.
And someone repeating something over and over an again does sound familiar. .. lol. Why Why don't OU give us your opinion on rose for the billionth time.
About their 3rd quarter struggles by Chris Herring, who recently went from the Inicks beat to national for 538 and ESPN. He'll be missed, best beat writer we had I think since Alan went to MSG. Ian Begley is good and we have some good guys on local team sites too. Twolves 3rd quarter struggles - ( New Window )
Link - ( New Window )
For the opposing team.
And his non-defense is a huge liability.
Great team player. Going on record to say he needs to take game winning shots... ugh.
Agree. Sounds like fans were starting to get on him ... they should. Forcing shots almost every time down.
How about passing the ball asshole?
An off balance well defended long two after you just brought the ball down the court? That's Fucking ridiculous.
Melo needs to realize it's not his team anymore.
Might be the 2nd 20-20-20 game in history (Wilt) at this rate
But Melo can't seem to do that consistently, he's always itching to get back to playing some good old fashioned 1 on 5 and forcing bad shots, then bitching to the refs instead of hustling back on defense
Fuck.
Need to bring him back.
But Melo can't seem to do that consistently, he's always itching to get back to playing some good old fashioned 1 on 5 and forcing bad shots, then bitching to the refs instead of hustling back on defense
Agreed. He seems to go stretches where he decides to play ball. The rest of the time he seems to jog up and down and occasionally go for a rebound. His inconsistency kills any type of groove that we could ride.
How about sitting him the rest of the game. I'd rather see Kooz out there
Quote:
How about sitting him the rest of the game. I'd rather see Kooz out there
I love Kooz.
It's time to trade him
Quote:
It's almost time to bench him.
It's time to trade him
+1
So I've finally convinced you after 5 years of arguing with you
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It's almost time to bench him.
It's time to trade him
Who is trading for Melo?
Are you kidding me. If Lebron wants him Cavs will find a way
If Wade wants him Bulls will find a way
Quote:
In comment 13238857 guitarguybs12 said:
Quote:
It's almost time to bench him.
It's time to trade him
Who is trading for Melo?
Couldn't agree more with you. But somehow I knew this years ago He's been a selfish so called superstar since he's been here
Quote:
In comment 13238862 Earl the goat said:
Are you kidding me. If Lebron wants him Cavs will find a way
If Wade wants him Bulls will find a way
Quote:
In comment 13238857 guitarguybs12 said:
Quote:
It's almost time to bench him.
It's time to trade him
Who is trading for Melo?
Yea...no
In his defense he's a shitty shooter behind the arc.
You gotta hope Noah just doesn't have his legs under him yet because he really was not able to make plays tonight.
Kooz and Hernangomez along with KP makes a formidable front court
And Holiday should start as small guard. He's a sit down defender with a nice stroke
Kooz and Hernangomez along with KP makes a formidable front court
And Holiday should start as small guard. He's a sit down defender with a nice stroke
We can dream, can't we?
Sad that a trade is likelier to get Melo off the court.
As you or someone posted earlier, once Westbrook got going, looked like Melo gave up on playing some team basketball to try and play the hero game. I've tried to defend Melo many times over his Knicks tenure, but it's really becoming clear his ego is too big to let this team grow up around him
"In the 1961–62 season, Robertson became the only player in NBA history to average a triple-double for an entire season, with 30.8 points, 12.5 rebounds and 11.4 assists."
To me, that would be up there with, say, challenging Joe D's 56 game hitting streak, or flirting with batting .400. It's pretty amazing. Westbrook is playing like a man possessed.
Again - not to excuse the Knicks' flaws tonight ...
i dont understand why he just cant take a step back when the team is rolling, he should love it, he finally has help
i dont understand why he just cant take a step back when the team is rolling, he should love it, he finally has help
"In the 1961–62 season, Robertson became the only player in NBA history to average a triple-double for an entire season, with 30.8 points, 12.5 rebounds and 11.4 assists."
To me, that would be up there with, say, challenging Joe D's 56 game hitting streak, or flirting with batting .400. It's pretty amazing. Westbrook is playing like a man possessed.
Again - not to excuse the Knicks' flaws tonight ...
No doubt, possessed is the right description for his game tonight. And he really does make everyone around him better
"In the 1961–62 season, Robertson became the only player in NBA history to average a triple-double for an entire season, with 30.8 points, 12.5 rebounds and 11.4 assists."
To me, that would be up there with, say, challenging Joe D's 56 game hitting streak, or flirting with batting .400. It's pretty amazing. Westbrook is playing like a man possessed.
Again - not to excuse the Knicks' flaws tonight ...
westbrook is just unbelievable, like harden he is their entire team, when he goes out they have nothing...
i thiught rose did the best job he could on him and then lee in the 4th did not play him bad, knicks just could not grab a rebound
i dont understand why he just cant take a step back when the team is rolling, he should love it, he finally has help
Because when they fail he gets blamed no matter what.
Knicks win we celebrate and praise KP.
Knicks lose we condemn and blame Melo.
He is the big money guy even though he has now has a bunch of money guys on the team.
Knicks fans are funny that way. They did the same thing with Ewing. Even Hahn said KP should enjoy this period now because there will become a time when the crowd starts booing and moaning at him when his shots aren't falling. Right now he is still the shiny new toy for us.
Melos place was always as the second star on a team He could never lead a team by himself cause he doesn't play defense and can't take over a game
Now that he has help with Rose and KP he's still selfish enough to outshoot the Knicks out of most games
I know it could be difficult to trade him which for 5 years I've been hoping for but I hope Hornacek won't be afraid to put his selfish ass on the bench as the second team
I've vented enough tonight
Quote:
he begged for help and he finally has it, rose and kp were playing great the ball movement was great and he was shooting well then all of sudden he switched and tried to take over...
i dont understand why he just cant take a step back when the team is rolling, he should love it, he finally has help
Because when they fail he gets blamed no matter what.
Knicks win we celebrate and praise KP.
Knicks lose we condemn and blame Melo.
He is the big money guy even though he has now has a bunch of money guys on the team.
Knicks fans are funny that way. They did the same thing with Ewing. Even Hahn said KP should enjoy this period now because there will become a time when the crowd starts booing and moaning at him when his shots aren't falling. Right now he is still the shiny new toy for us.
To be fair to KP, he actually tries to play defense and pass the ball.
Melos place was always as the second star on a team He could never lead a team by himself cause he doesn't play defense and can't take over a game
Now that he has help with Rose and KP he's still selfish enough to outshoot the Knicks out of most games
I know it could be difficult to trade him which for 5 years I've been hoping for but I hope Hornacek won't be afraid to put his selfish ass on the bench as the second team
I've vented enough tonight
absolutely none of that is true...
forst off dolan said to walsh that he was not sure about doing the trade and walsh ignored dolan and dantoni and did the trade...
second melo was the one who told dantoni to play lin, as much as dantoni wants everyone to think otherwise...
also melo did not run lin out of town, it was him going back to houston and getting a bigger deal out of houston and him making a business decision in the playoffs and deciding not to play...
walsh screwed up the knicks woth his moves prior to 2010, not the melo trade
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he begged for help and he finally has it, rose and kp were playing great the ball movement was great and he was shooting well then all of sudden he switched and tried to take over...
i dont understand why he just cant take a step back when the team is rolling, he should love it, he finally has help
Because when they fail he gets blamed no matter what.
Knicks win we celebrate and praise KP.
Knicks lose we condemn and blame Melo.
He is the big money guy even though he has now has a bunch of money guys on the team.
Knicks fans are funny that way. They did the same thing with Ewing. Even Hahn said KP should enjoy this period now because there will become a time when the crowd starts booing and moaning at him when his shots aren't falling. Right now he is still the shiny new toy for us.
I don't know about all fans, but I think a lot of us would love to see Melo turn out to be a winner. I had no problem giving him credit for his monster game Friday night when we won.
It just sucks to see so much potential with the youth and athletic ability this team has now, and see long stretches where Melo doesn't seem to want to play team basketball and kills tempo
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Has always been a selfish self appointed superstar never living up to expectatations. Donnie Walsh was smart enough not to trade for him but Dolan vetoed him. Jeremy Lin was like the Giants
finding Victor Cruz as an undrafted FA but Melo so called ran him and Dantoni out of town
Melos place was always as the second star on a team He could never lead a team by himself cause he doesn't play defense and can't take over a game
Now that he has help with Rose and KP he's still selfish enough to outshoot the Knicks out of most games
I know it could be difficult to trade him which for 5 years I've been hoping for but I hope Hornacek won't be afraid to put his selfish ass on the bench as the second team
I've vented enough tonight
absolutely none of that is true...
forst off dolan said to walsh that he was not sure about doing the trade and walsh ignored dolan and dantoni and did the trade...
second melo was the one who told dantoni to play lin, as much as dantoni wants everyone to think otherwise...
also melo did not run lin out of town, it was him going back to houston and getting a bigger deal out of houston and him making a business decision in the playoffs and deciding not to play...
walsh screwed up the knicks woth his moves prior to 2010, not the melo trade
I'll only agree with Lin taking that poison pill deal from Houston
Other than that Walsh and Dantoni had this team playing fun basketball and had draft picks and salary cap freedom until the Melo trade
Walsh was NOT on board. It was all Dolan
Walsh was on the right track You should know better than that
Gallinari. Chandler were both players. Mozgiv was young and big and the Knicks had cap space and draft picks
You are just starting to admit that Melo is holding this team back and is not as great as you use to claim he is
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In comment 13238987 Earl the goat said:
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Has always been a selfish self appointed superstar never living up to expectatations. Donnie Walsh was smart enough not to trade for him but Dolan vetoed him. Jeremy Lin was like the Giants
finding Victor Cruz as an undrafted FA but Melo so called ran him and Dantoni out of town
Melos place was always as the second star on a team He could never lead a team by himself cause he doesn't play defense and can't take over a game
Now that he has help with Rose and KP he's still selfish enough to outshoot the Knicks out of most games
I know it could be difficult to trade him which for 5 years I've been hoping for but I hope Hornacek won't be afraid to put his selfish ass on the bench as the second team
I've vented enough tonight
absolutely none of that is true...
forst off dolan said to walsh that he was not sure about doing the trade and walsh ignored dolan and dantoni and did the trade...
second melo was the one who told dantoni to play lin, as much as dantoni wants everyone to think otherwise...
also melo did not run lin out of town, it was him going back to houston and getting a bigger deal out of houston and him making a business decision in the playoffs and deciding not to play...
walsh screwed up the knicks woth his moves prior to 2010, not the melo trade
I'll only agree with Lin taking that poison pill deal from Houston
Other than that Walsh and Dantoni had this team playing fun basketball and had draft picks and salary cap freedom until the Melo trade
Walsh was NOT on board. It was all Dolan
Walsh was on the right track You should know better than that
Gallinari. Chandler were both players. Mozgiv was young and big and the Knicks had cap space and draft picks
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In comment 13238960 nygiants16 said:
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he begged for help and he finally has it, rose and kp were playing great the ball movement was great and he was shooting well then all of sudden he switched and tried to take over...
i dont understand why he just cant take a step back when the team is rolling, he should love it, he finally has help
Because when they fail he gets blamed no matter what.
Knicks win we celebrate and praise KP.
Knicks lose we condemn and blame Melo.
He is the big money guy even though he has now has a bunch of money guys on the team.
Knicks fans are funny that way. They did the same thing with Ewing. Even Hahn said KP should enjoy this period now because there will become a time when the crowd starts booing and moaning at him when his shots aren't falling. Right now he is still the shiny new toy for us.
To be fair to KP, he actually tries to play defense and pass the ball.
His help defense is nice but he too was bad on man to man defense and got crushed on the boards. Kanter absolutely manhandled him on the boards when he came in grabbed 12 rebounds while KP finished with 5 rebounds. That can't happen. Noah is just as bad but IMO he is close to done.
Hornacek briefly talked about how our bigs need to get mean and play mean even if they are getting shoved in the back.
To be fair to KP, he actually tries to play defense and pass the ball.
His help defense is nice but he too was bad on man to man defense and got crushed on the boards. Kanter absolutely manhandled him on the boards when he came in grabbed 12 rebounds while KP finished with 5 rebounds. That can't happen. Noah is just as bad but IMO he is close to done.
Hornacek briefly talked about how our bigs need to get mean and play mean even if they are getting shoved in the back.
He's in his second year. Melo is in his 14th. One gets more leeway as far as completeness of game is concerned.
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To be fair to KP, he actually tries to play defense and pass the ball.
His help defense is nice but he too was bad on man to man defense and got crushed on the boards. Kanter absolutely manhandled him on the boards when he came in grabbed 12 rebounds while KP finished with 5 rebounds. That can't happen. Noah is just as bad but IMO he is close to done.
Hornacek briefly talked about how our bigs need to get mean and play mean even if they are getting shoved in the back.
He's in his second year. Melo is in his 14th. One gets more leeway as far as completeness of game is concerned.
I said he is the shiny new toy right now.
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In comment 13238987 Earl the goat said:
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Has always been a selfish self appointed superstar never living up to expectatations. Donnie Walsh was smart enough not to trade for him but Dolan vetoed him. Jeremy Lin was like the Giants
finding Victor Cruz as an undrafted FA but Melo so called ran him and Dantoni out of town
Melos place was always as the second star on a team He could never lead a team by himself cause he doesn't play defense and can't take over a game
Now that he has help with Rose and KP he's still selfish enough to outshoot the Knicks out of most games
I know it could be difficult to trade him which for 5 years I've been hoping for but I hope Hornacek won't be afraid to put his selfish ass on the bench as the second team
I've vented enough tonight
absolutely none of that is true...
forst off dolan said to walsh that he was not sure
I'll only agree with Lin taking that poison pill deal from Houston
Other than that Walsh and Dantoni had this team playing fun basketball and had draft picks and salary cap freedom until the Melo trade
Walsh was NOT on board. It was all Dolan
Walsh was on the right track You should know better than that
Gallinari. Chandler were both players. Mozgiv was young and big and the Knicks had cap space and draft picks
you are wrong, walsh already admitted he did the deal against the wishes of dolan and dantoni...
he admitted this the other day in an interview, he was the sole reason for the melo deal
Noah is STILL in recovery mode it seems, trying to get his legs back. Just look at his FTs. Despite his igly ass shot, he's a career 71% shooter from the stripe. What's he at this year? 30%? It'll come back to him - I just think the illness set him back a bit, but I think he can still be super effective. As of last week, he was at career highs as far as per-36 numbers, and the disparity in overall team play was big time in his favor when he was on the court vs off the court.
I used to be a fan, now I say trade him if we can.
How the fuck does Joakim Noah grab ZERO defensive rebounds while playing 26 minutes? He was an abomination late in the 4th quarter.
That's like Brook Lopez-esque. Pathetic
https://youtu.be/XLoX6CErQoA
Yes I know those are highlights which only show the plays Westbrook made but this fits the "eye test" from what I see from Rose on the defensive end. If the goal is to make noise in the playoffs Rose will have to matchup against the likes of Kyrie, Thomas, Kemba and Lowry.
The fact that no one on the court understands rotations doesn't help, but rose is pretty horrendous in his own right on defense.
But I suppose people will continue to believe what they want to believe.
Someone should have nailed him going to the hoop, not dirty not cheap, just a hard body foul. He had no problem putting his shoulder into Knick players.
crowder and brooklyns 1st is a deal i would do in a second...
melo right now just doesnt seem to want to take a step back and play off the ball..
last night rose was hot and melo continued to take the ball up the court..
crowder and brooklyns 1st is a deal i would do in a second...
melo right now just doesnt seem to want to take a step back and play off the ball..
last night rose was hot and melo continued to take the ball up the court..
I would 100% not do that if I were Boston.
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but i wish he would go to boston, they are desperate for a name superstar...
crowder and brooklyns 1st is a deal i would do in a second...
melo right now just doesnt seem to want to take a step back and play off the ball..
last night rose was hot and melo continued to take the ball up the court..
I would 100% not do that if I were Boston.
it was rumored that that was the package boston offered but it never went anywhere because melo said no ..
and ainge is desperate he is going to make a stupid trade soon
et.
Those who are not running the teams offense and are stinking up the joint need to sit.
Seems like he was afraid to take Melo out on Saturday and Melo was clearly tired and way off, and last night when the ball movement and momentum died with Melo he should have been shown the bench.
Two set's of rules never work.
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In comment 13239232 nygiants16 said:
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but i wish he would go to boston, they are desperate for a name superstar...
crowder and brooklyns 1st is a deal i would do in a second...
melo right now just doesnt seem to want to take a step back and play off the ball..
last night rose was hot and melo continued to take the ball up the court..
I would 100% not do that if I were Boston.
it was rumored that that was the package boston offered but it never went anywhere because melo said no ..
and ainge is desperate he is going to make a stupid trade soon
Rumored last year or this year? I think the Horford signing might've changed things. Crowder might be one of the last guys Ainge would be willing to part with. Maybe he'd do it for some combination of olynyk, smart, Amir Johnson and maybe brown.
But the more I think of it the more I doubt Stevens would be eager to toss in Melo into the lineup. Their biggest need is a dominant Big that can grab boards and protect the paint. Melo doesn't really fit the bill.
et.
Those who are not running the teams offense and are stinking up the joint need to sit.
Seems like he was afraid to take Melo out on Saturday and Melo was clearly tired and way off, and last night when the ball movement and momentum died with Melo he should have been shown the bench.
Two set's of rules never work.
i thought the rose lee holiday kp noah lineip started playimg well in the 4th, i think he should of kept melo on the bench...
holiday in my opinion needs more minutes
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In comment 13239269 giantsfan44ab said:
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In comment 13239232 nygiants16 said:
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but i wish he would go to boston, they are desperate for a name superstar...
crowder and brooklyns 1st is a deal i would do in a second...
melo right now just doesnt seem to want to take a step back and play off the ball..
last night rose was hot and melo continued to take the ball up the court..
I would 100% not do that if I were Boston.
it was rumored that that was the package boston offered but it never went anywhere because melo said no ..
and ainge is desperate he is going to make a stupid trade soon
Rumored last year or this year? I think the Horford signing might've changed things. Crowder might be one of the last guys Ainge would be willing to part with. Maybe he'd do it for some combination of olynyk, smart, Amir Johnson and maybe brown.
But the more I think of it the more I doubt Stevens would be eager to toss in Melo into the lineup. Their biggest need is a dominant Big that can grab boards and protect the paint. Melo doesn't really fit the bill.
ainge is actively looking for a superstar..
that team as currently constructed has a ceiling, they have the draft picks to swing for the fences..
not saying it will be for melo but i guarentee they will trade for somebody
Jonas Jerbko
Jaylen Brown and a future 1
yeah you can not do it now, but if you plan on bringing him back, it would be smart to do it in season,
Is there a deadline? If the Knicks are out of it by the trade deadline I think there's a legitimate chance of at least the discussions of Melo moving on. Again, don't know who would trade for him at this point but at this rate teams will give at least starting low ball offers for him considering his contract isn't really that bad. .
If you move on from Melo it Doesn't make much sense to keep Rose around. There's really no FAs that the Knicks can get/would be willing to come here to help them compete.
Regarding any trade with melo, it's not happening. I cannot see melo agreeing to go anywhere unless the knicks are terrible come trade deadline and melo feels immense pressures. Without his blessing, whats the point of discussing?
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is eligible for an in-season extension of roughly 3 years 75 million, Berman claims they might consider this late in the season but not right now. I'd like to move on from Rose long term but this seems like the smartest approach. If he plays well all season and stays healthy you revisit this. Right now it would be absolute lunacy
Is there a deadline? If the Knicks are out of it by the trade deadline I think there's a legitimate chance of at least the discussions of Melo moving on. Again, don't know who would trade for him at this point but at this rate teams will give at least starting low ball offers for him considering his contract isn't really that bad. .
If you move on from Melo it Doesn't make much sense to keep Rose around. There's really no FAs that the Knicks can get/would be willing to come here to help them compete.
No mention of a deadline. Here is the blurb
According to an NBA source, the Knicks have not approached Rose about an extension, but have not ruled it out for late in the season. The Knicks apparently want to make sure his body holds up across a full season and would be willing to pay more this summer if they had to.
Rose is the 14th-highest paid player in the NBA this season at $21.3 million. If he signs an extension now, next season’s salary begin at $23 million. His wage would go to $24.6M in Year 2 and $26.2M in Year 3.
Not bad — unless you believe Rose will play his way into a max deal this summer, considering the escalating salary cap and ridiculous pacts being dispensed.
If he waits until this summer, Rose’s maximum starting salary could be as high as $29 million. That would allow him a chance to sign a 5-year package worth $175 million if he stays with the Knicks — four years if he leaves.
Rose, 28, said he wanted to learn more about those specifics. Players in similar boats are Utah’s George Hill and Derrick Favors and Indiana’s Paul George.
Link - ( New Window )
Let someone else pay him big money. He's been okay this year but hes horrendous on defense. I'd rather pay Jennings and bring in another backup.
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take the 3 years now than the 5 years later. Regardless of how well he plays now I want 0.0% part of age 32-34 rose.
Let someone else pay him big money. He's been okay this year but hes horrendous on defense. I'd rather pay Jennings and bring in another backup.
I'm completely on board but both you and I know that Rose will be back in Knicks uniform for more than just this season. I'd rather that be 3 years than 5. 2 would be ideal but he would never accept that.
i wouldnt be surprised if both rose and jennings are back as long as the knicks as a team continue to improve
Clippers- could actually really help that team but Knicks wouldn't get much back. Probably Redick and Jamal Crawford to match salaries. Would you do it?
Toronto- Definitely fits in their team and Raptors have plenty to trade. Would be shocked if he waived his no trade to go there.
Miami- Looks like they are tanking.
Lakers- young, up and coming team. Doubt they are trading for Melo.
Milwaukee- Melo and Kidd are close but I doubt he waives his no trade to go here.
Houston- They wanted him bad as a FA but with D'Antoni there its not happening.
Chicago- Could see him waiving his no trade to go play with Wade. Taj Gibson and cap filler?
Cavs- I always thought this could be a good on court fit and was really hoping the 3way trade with Boston and Love would happen this past offseason. Love seems pretty entrenched there now though and the Cavs are rolling. Would they trade Frye/ Dunleavy/ Shumpert type package to bring Melo in? Not sure they could fit everyone and would hurt their depth.
Boston- I just don't see Melo wanting to go there.
Only realistic options seem to be Chicago and the Clippers.
What do you guys think?
That said, he's clearly healthy right now and playing hard, and we haven't had a PG with this kind of ability often since the early 70s. Marbury played at this level for a little while before he got weird.
Would love to dump Noah on someone, but good luck with that
If we were going to trade Melo, the time was 2 years ago when his value was higher. I think it would be hard to find a taker (sucker) now
Clippers- could actually really help that team but Knicks wouldn't get much back. Probably Redick and Jamal Crawford to match salaries. Would you do it?
Toronto- Definitely fits in their team and Raptors have plenty to trade. Would be shocked if he waived his no trade to go there.
Miami- Looks like they are tanking.
Lakers- young, up and coming team. Doubt they are trading for Melo.
Milwaukee- Melo and Kidd are close but I doubt he waives his no trade to go here.
Houston- They wanted him bad as a FA but with D'Antoni there its not happening.
Chicago- Could see him waiving his no trade to go play with Wade. Taj Gibson and cap filler?
Cavs- I always thought this could be a good on court fit and was really hoping the 3way trade with Boston and Love would happen this past offseason. Love seems pretty entrenched there now though and the Cavs are rolling. Would they trade Frye/ Dunleavy/ Shumpert type package to bring Melo in? Not sure they could fit everyone and would hurt their depth.
Boston- I just don't see Melo wanting to go there.
Only realistic options seem to be Chicago and the Clippers.
What do you guys think?
Clips- they would not do that. It's gonna be weird to say but I think Reddick is much more valuable to their team than Melo would be. He requires 0 ball dominance and can single handedly win them games by hitting open 3s CP3 sets up for him. They may arguably be the 3rd or even 2nd best team in the NBA right now.
Toronto- Who would they offer? I think it would take Ross + Poetl + Nogiera + Powell to get it done. Which isn't an awful haul, but I don't know if both sides would do it.
Milwaukee- They already have their Melo in Jabari Parkersburg
Cavs- lol hell no. They just won the championship with Love accepting a lesser role but contributing on the glass in the finals series. I think he's flat out better than Melo at this point.
Chicago- No chance in hell. They have arguably the 3 most ball dominant players at the PG, SG, and SF positions in the league. Makes no sense to trade for Melo.
Bring in a real HC please. Let Horn win 48 games for an over achieving team out west.
young talent? There's exactly TWO players on this roster that one could reasonably call "young talent".
Butler is their small forward and is having a MVP type year. Wade has fit in better than expected and Gibson is their best interior defender.
You are probably right but do you see Melo leaving 28 mill on the table to opt out at the age of 34?
Time for Holiday, big Willy, and Kuzmingas to play more. On the bright side, I have been impressed with Lee and think it will turn out to be a very good signing.
Bring in a real HC please. Let Horn win 48 games for an over achieving team out west.
Long term, the prognosis is murky at best. We have the foundational player, but little else in terms of long term assets that is a sure thing. The Wolves, Jazz, Sixers, Lakers all have a much bigger foundation to build off of them we do for the future. Having said that, Hornacek is definitely not the problem. Personnel is and the vision of what this team is. Phil has no idea and keeps changing it up. It all falls on him.
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destination for Melo at this point. Maybe something comes up over the summer as teams could potentially absorb him into cap space - but even that is tricky as the cap is not expected to rise as much as originally thought. If I had to bet, I'd say he opts out of his deal after next season and leaves.
You are probably right but do you see Melo leaving 28 mill on the table to opt out at the age of 34?
it all depends on who has cap room. Maybe he opts out and takes something like 2/50 or 3/60 with player options from another team...or something like that.
As for the Rose defense stuff, that's kind of more nonsense as well. Rose's defense has been much better over the past 5+ games. As for PnR defense - that's been the Knicks' weakness the entire year. Obviously they still need to work on it, especially given that their "defensive anchor" is still getting his legs and learning about his teammates each game.
As for Noah being a black hole on offense, do we not remember Tyson Chandler? Yes, his shooting % by the basket was quite good, but he was confined to mainly dunks and layups. On offense he still needs to cut to the basket more, but again - it will require time to fine tune the offense. And not to mention his passing is probably tops for his position in the entire NBA. The fact that people are outraged by him making $18M per year, in a league where Timofey Mozgov and Ian Mahinmi are each making $16M per year, it makes me believe that some fans really lack any critical analysis skills. Will that contract look worse in the 3rd or 4th years? Most likely, yea. But it won't be the albatross-type deal that has been associated with this organization since the early 2000s.
[quote] In comment 13239483 djm said:
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I love the young talent
young talent? There's exactly TWO players on this roster that one could reasonably call "young talent". [/quote
I'd add cheese to the mix even though he's 28 or so. He's cost controlled and pretty solid. Even O'quinn is pretty young.
Honestly, you're missing the point anyway. KP is enough to say the Knicks have a bright future. I know that means giving Jackson a shred of credit...sorry.
Bring in a real HC please. Let Horn win 48 games for an over achieving team out west.
Thibs preaches defense. Minnesota is already regretting that contract. Hes made Towns into a jump shooter.
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but I have no faith in this team right now until they find a HC that preaches defense first. I love the young talent and I can even live some of the vets but the Knicks aren't going anywhere with this style of play. Simple as that.
Bring in a real HC please. Let Horn win 48 games for an over achieving team out west.
Long term, the prognosis is murky at best. We have the foundational player, but little else in terms of long term assets that is a sure thing. The Wolves, Jazz, Sixers, Lakers all have a much bigger foundation to build off of them we do for the future. Having said that, Hornacek is definitely not the problem. Personnel is and the vision of what this team is. Phil has no idea and keeps changing it up. It all falls on him.
I disagree that Horn isn't the problem. When guys aren't getting back on D time and time again I go right to the HC every time.
We need a real HC. I will keep saying it. Horn is a nice guy...hard worker. Damn good player. Maybe he's got a place in the NBA but he's not the guy that will turn the Knicks around. The Knicks need a General Patton. Horn isn't that guy. And it's as clear as day.
I saw the Knicks give up a fast break basket AFTER they actually scored. The system is catering to the offensive mentality that players love. IT's not going to work. I guarantee it.
He's cost controlled and pretty solid. he's controlled for one year after this. Even O'quinn is pretty young.
I like both of these guys but at best they are bench players on a good team. And what are the chances both are still on the roster 2 years from now?
Anthony Davis would like a word with you.
He trusted his scouts and nailed a lottery pick. Good for him. Unfortunately it takes a lot more than that to build a consistent winner.
I think he's going to be a perennial MVP candidate in the prime of his career. I daresay his ceiling is hire than Paul George's.
Crazy start to the NBA year. But in reality, everyone is still playing for 2nd in their conference which really has put a dull on the season.
Really sucks Middleton got hurt. He's their second best player. Brogdon, Gianns and Middleton can bolster a strong perimeter defense together.
Agreed. He has the potential to be the kind of player where for a decade "he could be the next Greek Freak!" He's truly freakish. Bucks are a weird team and are missing their 2nd best player (for likely most of the season) but they could quietly be pretty dangerous. Ideally they would find a taker for Monroe. How many teams have a better young trio than GF, Parker, Middleton with Henson being solid, Brogdan looking solid and Maker a major wild card? Being without Middleton is killer.
Agreed but I'd rather have useful pieces aka trade value than not. Like I said, if Middleton weren't hurt I suspect they would be near the top of the Eastern Conference (not exactly a stretch when the 3 seed is 3 games ahead of them).
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I'd add cheese to the mix even though he's 28 or so.
He's cost controlled and pretty solid. he's controlled for one year after this. Even O'quinn is pretty young.
I like both of these guys but at best they are bench players on a good team. And what are the chances both are still on the roster 2 years from now?
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Honestly, you're missing the point anyway. KP is enough to say the Knicks have a bright future.
Anthony Davis would like a word with you.
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I know that means giving Jackson a shred of credit...sorry.
He trusted his scouts and nailed a lottery pick. Good for him. Unfortunately it takes a lot more than that to build a consistent winner.
Great. And I still love the young talent on this team. Go shit in someone else's cheerios.
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that don't really fit together well.
Agreed but I'd rather have useful pieces aka trade value than not. Like I said, if Middleton weren't hurt I suspect they would be near the top of the Eastern Conference (not exactly a stretch when the 3 seed is 3 games ahead of them).
I guess this may be me being ignorant of how to run a very small market team but the Bucks have some very questionable signings in terms of contracts and usage.
Right now they have $65M a year (!!!!) committed to Monroe, Henson, plumlee, delladova, teletovic and Sanders (I know he was stretch waived). Do any of those players outside Delly get more than 20 minutes a game? It seems like the Bucks paid literally any young-ish talent they came across before they had the opportunity to trade them.
Im not exactly sure if any of those guys have any trade value either (maybe Henson?).
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In comment 13239528 djm said:
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I'd add cheese to the mix even though he's 28 or so.
He's cost controlled and pretty solid. he's controlled for one year after this. Even O'quinn is pretty young.
I like both of these guys but at best they are bench players on a good team. And what are the chances both are still on the roster 2 years from now?
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Honestly, you're missing the point anyway. KP is enough to say the Knicks have a bright future.
Anthony Davis would like a word with you.
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I know that means giving Jackson a shred of credit...sorry.
He trusted his scouts and nailed a lottery pick. Good for him. Unfortunately it takes a lot more than that to build a consistent winner.
Great. And I still love the young talent on this team. Go shit in someone else's cheerios.
Well in reality there's very little young talent on this team. Maybe preach your bullshit somewhere else?
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In comment 13239648 Greg from LI said:
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that don't really fit together well.
Agreed but I'd rather have useful pieces aka trade value than not. Like I said, if Middleton weren't hurt I suspect they would be near the top of the Eastern Conference (not exactly a stretch when the 3 seed is 3 games ahead of them).
I guess this may be me being ignorant of how to run a very small market team but the Bucks have some very questionable signings in terms of contracts and usage.
Right now they have $65M a year (!!!!) committed to Monroe, Henson, plumlee, delladova, teletovic and Sanders (I know he was stretch waived). Do any of those players outside Delly get more than 20 minutes a game? It seems like the Bucks paid literally any young-ish talent they came across before they had the opportunity to trade them.
Im not exactly sure if any of those guys have any trade value either (maybe Henson?).
In fairness the Bucks NEED to overpay to keep/sign players given their market. Delladova looked ridiculous but Monroe looked like a solid signing price wise (not so much fit) and Henson makes basically half of what Noah does. They were clearly betting on his upside
"It's also about time that Henson gets a chance at steady playing time after displaying tons of potential in smaller roles. Over the last three seasons, Henson has averaged 15 points, 10.2 rebounds and 2.7 blocks per 36 minutes. The only four players who blocked more shots per game than Henson last season were Anthony Davis, Serge Ibaka, Rudy Gobert and DeAndre Jordan. Henson, meanwhile, played just 18 minutes per game."
Ehh yes they have talent but they atill do not play together and they are mainly offensive players, who are their good defensive players besides towns?
knicks should sweep this home and home..
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that don't really fit together well.
Agreed but I'd rather have useful pieces aka trade value than not. Like I said, if Middleton weren't hurt I suspect they would be near the top of the Eastern Conference (not exactly a stretch when the 3 seed is 3 games ahead of them).
they had middleton last year and they still sucked...
they screwed up when they traded knight away and it completely killed their team...
monroe is a center who plays zero defense..
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hard to see how Minny is 5-12 with the talent on that team. Despite their record I don't think we match up that well with them.
Ehh yes they have talent but they atill do not play together and they are mainly offensive players, who are their good defensive players besides towns?
knicks should sweep this home and home..
According to sgcrts, Rubio is the best defensive point guard in the NBA. Dieng is a good defender as well. And we all know how athletic Lavine and Wiggins are. People need to realize that Thibs is really not that good of a coach.
Most overrated player in the NBA.
Sanders seems like he was a guy who played basketball just because he was a huge, athletic man, not because he actually enjoyed it. Tony Bennett kicked our big transfer Austin Nichols off of UVA's roster last week, allegedly for cocaine problems, and "insiders" have said the same thing about him - he played because he was 6'9" and could get a scholarship for it, but he really didn't want to play basketball all that much.
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In comment 13239764 Del Shofner said:
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hard to see how Minny is 5-12 with the talent on that team. Despite their record I don't think we match up that well with them.
Ehh yes they have talent but they atill do not play together and they are mainly offensive players, who are their good defensive players besides towns?
knicks should sweep this home and home..
According to sgcrts, Rubio is the best defensive point guard in the NBA. Dieng is a good defender as well. And we all know how athletic Lavine and Wiggins are. People need to realize that Thibs is really not that good of a coach.
I absolutely never said that but Rubio is absolutely one of the best defensive PGs in the NBA. I'm not surprised you don't know that because you are absolutely one of the dumbest posters on BBI.
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In comment 13239648 Greg from LI said:
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that don't really fit together well.
Agreed but I'd rather have useful pieces aka trade value than not. Like I said, if Middleton weren't hurt I suspect they would be near the top of the Eastern Conference (not exactly a stretch when the 3 seed is 3 games ahead of them).
they had middleton last year and they still sucked...
they screwed up when they traded knight away and it completely killed their team...
monroe is a center who plays zero defense..
Giannis and Jabari were both 20 years old and Jabari was coming off an ACL injury. In other words, they were both the same exact age of KP (Giannis probably just as raw). If you can't recognize the strides both players have made then I don't know what to say. You don't need Carmelo Anthony or Derrick Rose on your team to develop young players.
At the end of the day they finished pretty much exactly where the Knicks finished last year and right now don't seem far off from NY either...
the problem with the knight trade was he was running the offense and scoring, they basically got rid of their best player
Jabari: 14.8 PER 16 ppg, 1.9 apg, 4.1 rpg
Middleton: 16.8 PER 18.2 ppg, 4.2 apg, 3.8 rpg (not to mention one of the best perimeter defenders in the league)
2016:
Giannis: 25.4 PER 22.8 ppg, 6.2 apg, 7 rpg
Jabari: 18 PER 18.6 ppg, 2.3 apg, 6.1 rpg (37% from 3)
So yes, like Dan mentioned, I absolutely think they could be a top 4 seed had they had Middleton. The reason the Knight trade fucked them over was because Middleton was the only one capable of shooting 3s on the roster (40% career 3 point shooter). Now Jabari's 3 point shot is coming along. Brogdon and and Delly are more than capable 3 point shooters as well. If this Bucks team can become even average at shooting 3s I think they can be a powerhouse in the East with their length, athleticism, defense, and rebounding prowess.
I absolutely never said that but Rubio is absolutely one of the best defensive PGs in the NBA. I'm not surprised you don't know that because you are absolutely one of the dumbest posters on BBI.
100% pure BULLSHIT.
Brogs has a peerless work ethic, a huge wingspan, and outstanding BBIQ. He's very strong for a guard and plays an unselfish game. Won't ever be a star, but can be a valuable guy in a winning team's rotation.
How dumb are you? I literally just said Rubio is one of the best defensive PGs in the NBA. I'm not even sure how that's arguable.
Brogs has a peerless work ethic, a huge wingspan, and outstanding BBIQ. He's very strong for a guard and plays an unselfish game. Won't ever be a star, but can be a valuable guy in a winning team's rotation.
36% is above average if he translate that into the league. Its enough to make you respectable from range and keep the defense honest.
Guys I never watch? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAH. I watch more games in a week than you do in a year. You even admitted last year you don't watch many games. And now you're claiming I dont? You're a special kind of person who rides a short bus every day.
Hey maybe rubio's defense with thibs, two bigs who can defense, and two atheltic wings can lead them into the top 20 of defense this year.
I don't watch the NBA. I watched more twolves games than bulls games last year.
By far the dumbest person on thr board is you. You're a running joke. Must have killed you seeing rose play well in a loss. Double whammy for you. But then again, I doubt you watched the game.
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You sure have a lot of opinions on a lot of players who you never watch.
Guys I never watch? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAH. I watch more games in a week than you do in a year. You even admitted last year you don't watch many games. And now you're claiming I dont? You're a special kind of person who rides a short bus every day.
Hey maybe rubio's defense with thibs, two bigs who can defense, and two atheltic wings can lead them into the top 20 of defense this year.
I don't watch the NBA. I watched more twolves games than bulls games last year.
By far the dumbest person on thr board is you. You're a running joke. Must have killed you seeing rose play well in a loss. Double whammy for you. But then again, I doubt you watched the game.
Seriously, go fuck yourself and play in traffic or something. I never said any of the shit you think you I said, and you are a pathetic liar. I'm not even sure why you are bring up Rubio or Thibs, since no one but you is discussing them over and over and over and over.........and over and over.
I apologize for my role- shouldn't take the bait from that troll.
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In comment 13240129 Sgrcts said:
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You sure have a lot of opinions on a lot of players who you never watch.
Guys I never watch? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAH. I watch more games in a week than you do in a year. You even admitted last year you don't watch many games. And now you're claiming I dont? You're a special kind of person who rides a short bus every day.
Hey maybe rubio's defense with thibs, two bigs who can defense, and two atheltic wings can lead them into the top 20 of defense this year.
I don't watch the NBA. I watched more twolves games than bulls games last year.
By far the dumbest person on thr board is you. You're a running joke. Must have killed you seeing rose play well in a loss. Double whammy for you. But then again, I doubt you watched the game.
Seriously, go fuck yourself and play in traffic or something. I never said any of the shit you think you I said, and you are a pathetic liar. I'm not even sure why you are bring up Rubio or Thibs, since no one but you is discussing them over and over and over and over.........and over and over.
Was thibs not discussed a lot this offseason? And And didn't And didn't djm mention wanting a defensive minded coach in this thread? And isn't thibs a d coach who's not having success.
And someone repeating something over and over an again does sound familiar. .. lol. Why Why don't OU give us your opinion on rose for the billionth time.
Sgrcts is known for this.
Twolves 3rd quarter struggles - ( New Window )