and missed out. He would have been such a perfect fit for this team.
Lucroy is a stud. You see his offensive numbers, then look up his framing ranking...16th overall. Gotta identify our version of Cervelli. An underrated/overlooked guy where the numbers suggest he could be good ie Wolters
Wolters is very interesting, and strategically I agree re: the Cervelli comp, just tough to trust young catchers (as we've learned with TdA and Plawecki).
5 catchers in baseball were worse than him and that's out of like 90 qualified catchers. He's a solid bat that plays catcher but teams are moving away from guys who can't handle a staff. Look at the bidding war for Jason Castro.
He does throw well (40/94 last 2 years) though, plus we'd still have D'arnaud who frames well. Not a lot of perfect catchers out there. I know Texas said they wanted to keep Lucroy, but I'd still be tempted to try to make them an offer they can't refuse if their negotiations stall out. Some combo of Bruce + TdA + Lugo/Robles/Nimmo types.
Throwing well is extremely overrated when it comes to catchers. The Mets SP are terrible at holding runners on. Unless they do that better teams will run on them anyway. Vogt wasn't "okay" at framing, he was absolutely awful. Framing is far, far more important. As for TDA being good at framing, what does one thing have to do with the other? If TDA hit then we wouldn't be having this conversation at all. Complaints about his throwing are directly tied to his lack of offense.
RE: RE: RE: I'm still pissed they came so close to getting Lucroy Â
and missed out. He would have been such a perfect fit for this team.
Lucroy is a stud. You see his offensive numbers, then look up his framing ranking...16th overall. Gotta identify our version of Cervelli. An underrated/overlooked guy where the numbers suggest he could be good ie Wolters
Wolters is very interesting, and strategically I agree re: the Cervelli comp, just tough to trust young catchers (as we've learned with TdA and Plawecki).
I just specifically like Wolters because his pitch framing grades near elite, he's a very athletic kid and is "new" to catching so to be so good at this already means he MIGHT be something pretty special back there defensively (and the Rockies already have Tom Murphy). Bruce to Colorado may be a fit as well (1b).
5 catchers in baseball were worse than him and that's out of like 90 qualified catchers. He's a solid bat that plays catcher but teams are moving away from guys who can't handle a staff. Look at the bidding war for Jason Castro.
He does throw well (40/94 last 2 years) though, plus we'd still have D'arnaud who frames well. Not a lot of perfect catchers out there. I know Texas said they wanted to keep Lucroy, but I'd still be tempted to try to make them an offer they can't refuse if their negotiations stall out. Some combo of Bruce + TdA + Lugo/Robles/Nimmo types.
Throwing well is extremely overrated when it comes to catchers. The Mets SP are terrible at holding runners on. Unless they do that better teams will run on them anyway. Vogt wasn't "okay" at framing, he was absolutely awful. Framing is far, far more important. As for TDA being good at framing, what does one thing have to do with the other? If TDA hit then we wouldn't be having this conversation at all. Complaints about his throwing are directly tied to his lack of offense.
totally serious, I think the Mets should bring in someone known for being great at holding runners on and hold a mini-camp with the pitchers. Ideally a RHP because it's likely tough to compare a LH and RH pick offf move.
velocity was down so buyer beware but is that an injury/decline thing or mechanical? The Mets should call all "bad" or mediocre teams with relievers. Admit my obsession with Nate Jones but there are quite a few guys to look at.
whats the word on Wright? Is he playing next season? What should we expect?
He's playing but Sandy admitted basically it's "who knows?" in terms of how much or how well. Not putting words in Sandy's mouth but my guess is deep down he'd prefer Wright retires.
Tell Wright to grab a 1st baseman glove and let him and Duda platoon or battle it out. Chances are one or both will be injured, but I am not putting Reyes on the bench. He is too valuable at the top of the order.
Marc Carig of Newsday hears "it's possible" Curtis Granderson gets moved.
Jay Bruce feels like the Mets' most obvious trade chip following the re-signing of Yoenis Cespedes, but the team will also apparently shop Granderson (and his $15 million salary for 2017). Granderson is coming off a year in which he slugged 30 home runs and played in 150 games, but he does turn 36 years old next March.
Source: Marc Carig on TwitterNov 29 - 4:12 PM
Tell Wright to grab a 1st baseman glove and let him and Duda platoon or battle it out. Chances are one or both will be injured, but I am not putting Reyes on the bench. He is too valuable at the top of the order.
Team insiders told Rubin they felt 1b would be MORE stress on his body, not less.
At 1B. Flores murders lefties. Match made in heaven. Wrights really just a spare part unless he miraculously heals and comes back. Reyes isn't going to be a full time bench player.
I am not saving a spot for him. He is not that good of a player anymore, even if healthy. Reyes is a far superior player at this point and makes $700k. Hopefully he does the right thing by the team and retires with that albatross of a contract.
Walker being back is a bit of a surprise. We almost have too many pieces right now. Nimmo, Cheech, Rivera and others like Lugo and Gsellman might be heading back to Vegas. Sure there's some tinkering left but man... Good times.
I am not saving a spot for him. He is not that good of a player anymore, even if healthy. Reyes is a far superior player at this point and makes $700k. Hopefully he does the right thing by the team and retires with that albatross of a contract.
Not looking to argue but the numbers don't support that. Wright was still productive offensively when healthy. I don't think anyone knows how he will react to this neck surgery including Wright. All we can do is wait and see. I maintain he will retire if he sucks and the Mets and him will work something out. Or maybe the fixed neck helps him? I doubt it but who knows?
But at this stage TDA hasn't proven enough to know for sure he just needs a good backup - there's a greater possibility of missing extended time with him than any player other than Wright and after last year there's risk that even healthy he may not be a productive starter. Vogt has shortcomings I'm sure, but he's been productive vs. righties and his contract is cheap enough that it's not prohibitive to have him on the bench if TDA does play well. Rolling the dice on a diamond in the rough would be fine but there is a very real possibility that whoever our backup is getting pressed into a starting role at some point.
issue with taking a shot on Vogt is Billy Beane doesn't give away cheap talent too often so Vogt likely costs you a guy like Dom Smith. You aren't getting Vogt for some C list prospects. What is in it for the A's? They control him through 2019.
for TDA but must get a decent back-up, even what Dan's suggested is fine.
Yeah we just need better insurance this time around. I'd prefer a vet like Suzuki but I'm not too picky. TDA should still get 60% of the atbats IMO if healthy.
who has only play more than 75 games once in 4 years. When is "potential" gone? With Cespedes in the fold, it's more important to get a great defensive catcher. Austin Romine would be perfect, but no way would the Yanks trade him now that McCann is gone.
issue with taking a shot on Vogt is Billy Beane doesn't give away cheap talent too often so Vogt likely costs you a guy like Dom Smith. You aren't getting Vogt for some C list prospects. What is in it for the A's? They control him through 2019.
Yup. Main reason I'm not interested. It's a buyers market for catchers and Vogt is an "all star". Bean will be looking to cash in IMO.
issue with taking a shot on Vogt is Billy Beane doesn't give away cheap talent too often so Vogt likely costs you a guy like Dom Smith. You aren't getting Vogt for some C list prospects. What is in it for the A's? They control him through 2019.
If that's the price then it's an obvious no way since we wouldn't even pay that price for Lucroy who is 3x the player Vogt is. My point on Vogt was as a potential interesting piece if Beane were to have interest in the Jay Bruce sweeps. A couple years ago he dealt for Zobrist with 1 year, sometimes he rolls the dice on all stars whose value is lower than normal.
RE: Dunno is going to be 28 in FEB. He's a .245 lifetime hitter Â
who has only play more than 75 games once in 4 years. When is "potential" gone? With Cespedes in the fold, it's more important to get a great defensive catcher. Austin Romine would be perfect, but no way would the Yanks trade him now that McCann is gone.
Potential isn't gone when he was the second best hitting catcher in baseball as recently as 2015. We've already seen what a "on" TDA looks like.
issue with taking a shot on Vogt is Billy Beane doesn't give away cheap talent too often so Vogt likely costs you a guy like Dom Smith. You aren't getting Vogt for some C list prospects. What is in it for the A's? They control him through 2019.
If that's the price then it's an obvious no way since we wouldn't even pay that price for Lucroy who is 3x the player Vogt is. My point on Vogt was as a potential interesting piece if Beane were to have interest in the Jay Bruce sweeps. A couple years ago he dealt for Zobrist with 1 year, sometimes he rolls the dice on all stars whose value is lower than normal.
The A's won 69 games last year. I don't see any reasonable narrative where they decide Jay Bruce for 1 year is someone they value at the expense of Vogt. Bruce for Vogt is a no-brainer... in the Mets favor. The A's are a bad team.
After finally being correctly placed in AAA for an extended stint actually started to show some life late. He should have never been rushed through there IMO in the first place. He might find himself back in the mix in 2017. Where's Shecky? Lol.
Hate his idea here. Lol. McCutchen is probably worse defensively in CF than Granderson at this point.
I wouldn't have a party Conforto for Hamilton but there IS something intriguing about adding Billy Hamilton to this team. I could envision him being a monster at the top of the lineup. He's flawed for sure but he can also be a weapon.
but a 1 for 1 for McCutchen would be something you have to consider. I'd probably pass because I'm comfortable with Conforto everyday in RF with Grandy + Lagares splitting time in CF. That's a very solid all around OF, though I wonder what it would cost to have a Cespedes - McCutchen - Conforto OF.
Hate his idea here. Lol. McCutchen is probably worse defensively in CF than Granderson at this point.
I wouldn't have a party Conforto for Hamilton but there IS something intriguing about adding Billy Hamilton to this team. I could envision him being a monster at the top of the lineup. He's flawed for sure but he can also be a weapon.
I'd love to add some real speed. Not sure if I'd love it for Conforto. I'd have to think on that. Lol.
this! The offseason is already not a disaster. Let's add as much as we can to the pen, and maybe add another C and go to war.
Hopefully the Mets can get rid of Bruce without having to eat much money. It'll be a tough sell because he hasn't hit 1 WAR in a while and makes $14M (1 WAR goes for $7.5M-$8M now), but maybe Sandy works some magic and we actually get something in return.
In Hamilton’s last 47 games, he has batted .286 with a .360 on-base percentage, with 32 runs scored and 36 stolen bases (in 40 attempts). His on-base against right-handed pitchers jumped from .276 to .340. Hamilton ranked seventh among all outfielders in Defensive Runs Saved. He led all major leaguers -- by far -- in Fangraphs’ baserunning efficiency metric.
For a big-market team with payroll and resource flexibility, Hamilton could be an incredible and devastating weapon, because of his once-in-a-generation baserunning skills. He could be used as a starter on some days.
But on other days -- depending on the matchups -- he could be used offensively in the same way that a closer is used to impact games, in being placed in high-leverage situations as a pinch-runner. Nobody is better at stealing bases. Nobody is better at taking the next 90 feet. The Royals demonstrated the potency of a dangerous baserunner over the last couple of years. Link - ( New Window )
looks like a huge bounceback candidate. 1 for 1 for Conforto is something i would probably do. Might have to keep Lagares if Cutch's defense is truly down.
Some burn at CF again at some point. They may not prefer it now but the Mets do crazy things with players who have little to no experience at a position (see Conforto). I could see him being worked around and settle there in 2018 after Granderson leaves. Obviously thinking way out and assuming Nimmo ends up legit.
I'd be interested but not for Conforto. Some package of Lagares, Gselleman, Cecchini, Rivera, ok - but can't give up a potential middle of the order cornerstone.
Is that he plays strictly corner OF, maybe a little first base. Basically, he plays non defensive positions where your looking for strictly offense. Defense isn't a big deal. Nobody's looking for an all glove RF who can't hit. This is why I always thought Heywards value was way overvalued.
RE: The only issue I have with Bruce and his WAR Â
Is that he plays strictly corner OF, maybe a little first base. Basically, he plays non defensive positions where your looking for strictly offense. Defense isn't a big deal. Nobody's looking for an all glove RF who can't hit. This is why I always thought Heywards value was way overvalued.
Problem with that argument is most CO play "only" CO. So if you compare Bruce with other CO he comes out looking unusually bad. It's not as if they are comparing him to SS's.
RE: The only issue I have with Bruce and his WAR Â
Is that he plays strictly corner OF, maybe a little first base. Basically, he plays non defensive positions where your looking for strictly offense. Defense isn't a big deal. Nobody's looking for an all glove RF who can't hit. This is why I always thought Heywards value was way overvalued.
Hundreds and hundreds of balls get hit to the corner OF spots each year. Does misplaying those balls not hurt the team just because they are in corner OF? Should we diminish Cespedes defensive value and arm just because he will primarily play corner OF?
Anyway, I don't think we disagree too much on Bruce (even if you're a bit more optimistic on our return than I am). Let's ship his ass out of here, get whatever salary relief we can get, and use that money elsewhere.
Quote:
and missed out. He would have been such a perfect fit for this team.
Lucroy is a stud. You see his offensive numbers, then look up his framing ranking...16th overall. Gotta identify our version of Cervelli. An underrated/overlooked guy where the numbers suggest he could be good ie Wolters
Wolters is very interesting, and strategically I agree re: the Cervelli comp, just tough to trust young catchers (as we've learned with TdA and Plawecki).
Quote:
5 catchers in baseball were worse than him and that's out of like 90 qualified catchers. He's a solid bat that plays catcher but teams are moving away from guys who can't handle a staff. Look at the bidding war for Jason Castro.
He does throw well (40/94 last 2 years) though, plus we'd still have D'arnaud who frames well. Not a lot of perfect catchers out there. I know Texas said they wanted to keep Lucroy, but I'd still be tempted to try to make them an offer they can't refuse if their negotiations stall out. Some combo of Bruce + TdA + Lugo/Robles/Nimmo types.
Throwing well is extremely overrated when it comes to catchers. The Mets SP are terrible at holding runners on. Unless they do that better teams will run on them anyway. Vogt wasn't "okay" at framing, he was absolutely awful. Framing is far, far more important. As for TDA being good at framing, what does one thing have to do with the other? If TDA hit then we wouldn't be having this conversation at all. Complaints about his throwing are directly tied to his lack of offense.
Quote:
In comment 13240141 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
and missed out. He would have been such a perfect fit for this team.
Lucroy is a stud. You see his offensive numbers, then look up his framing ranking...16th overall. Gotta identify our version of Cervelli. An underrated/overlooked guy where the numbers suggest he could be good ie Wolters
Wolters is very interesting, and strategically I agree re: the Cervelli comp, just tough to trust young catchers (as we've learned with TdA and Plawecki).
I just specifically like Wolters because his pitch framing grades near elite, he's a very athletic kid and is "new" to catching so to be so good at this already means he MIGHT be something pretty special back there defensively (and the Rockies already have Tom Murphy). Bruce to Colorado may be a fit as well (1b).
Quote:
In comment 13240142 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
5 catchers in baseball were worse than him and that's out of like 90 qualified catchers. He's a solid bat that plays catcher but teams are moving away from guys who can't handle a staff. Look at the bidding war for Jason Castro.
He does throw well (40/94 last 2 years) though, plus we'd still have D'arnaud who frames well. Not a lot of perfect catchers out there. I know Texas said they wanted to keep Lucroy, but I'd still be tempted to try to make them an offer they can't refuse if their negotiations stall out. Some combo of Bruce + TdA + Lugo/Robles/Nimmo types.
Throwing well is extremely overrated when it comes to catchers. The Mets SP are terrible at holding runners on. Unless they do that better teams will run on them anyway. Vogt wasn't "okay" at framing, he was absolutely awful. Framing is far, far more important. As for TDA being good at framing, what does one thing have to do with the other? If TDA hit then we wouldn't be having this conversation at all. Complaints about his throwing are directly tied to his lack of offense.
Completely agree with all of this word for word.
He's playing but Sandy admitted basically it's "who knows?" in terms of how much or how well. Not putting words in Sandy's mouth but my guess is deep down he'd prefer Wright retires.
Jay Bruce feels like the Mets' most obvious trade chip following the re-signing of Yoenis Cespedes, but the team will also apparently shop Granderson (and his $15 million salary for 2017). Granderson is coming off a year in which he slugged 30 home runs and played in 150 games, but he does turn 36 years old next March.
Source: Marc Carig on TwitterNov 29 - 4:12 PM
Team insiders told Rubin they felt 1b would be MORE stress on his body, not less.
Obviously Bruce will be traded.
Ces/Lagares/Granderson + Nimmo.
Not looking to argue but the numbers don't support that. Wright was still productive offensively when healthy. I don't think anyone knows how he will react to this neck surgery including Wright. All we can do is wait and see. I maintain he will retire if he sucks and the Mets and him will work something out. Or maybe the fixed neck helps him? I doubt it but who knows?
Obviously Bruce will be traded.
Ces/Lagares/Granderson + Nimmo.
I make that trade in a second and keep Bruce in RF.
Yeah we just need better insurance this time around. I'd prefer a vet like Suzuki but I'm not too picky. TDA should still get 60% of the atbats IMO if healthy.
Yup. Main reason I'm not interested. It's a buyers market for catchers and Vogt is an "all star". Bean will be looking to cash in IMO.
If that's the price then it's an obvious no way since we wouldn't even pay that price for Lucroy who is 3x the player Vogt is. My point on Vogt was as a potential interesting piece if Beane were to have interest in the Jay Bruce sweeps. A couple years ago he dealt for Zobrist with 1 year, sometimes he rolls the dice on all stars whose value is lower than normal.
Potential isn't gone when he was the second best hitting catcher in baseball as recently as 2015. We've already seen what a "on" TDA looks like.
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issue with taking a shot on Vogt is Billy Beane doesn't give away cheap talent too often so Vogt likely costs you a guy like Dom Smith. You aren't getting Vogt for some C list prospects. What is in it for the A's? They control him through 2019.
If that's the price then it's an obvious no way since we wouldn't even pay that price for Lucroy who is 3x the player Vogt is. My point on Vogt was as a potential interesting piece if Beane were to have interest in the Jay Bruce sweeps. A couple years ago he dealt for Zobrist with 1 year, sometimes he rolls the dice on all stars whose value is lower than normal.
The A's won 69 games last year. I don't see any reasonable narrative where they decide Jay Bruce for 1 year is someone they value at the expense of Vogt. Bruce for Vogt is a no-brainer... in the Mets favor. The A's are a bad team.
Link - ( New Window )
Link - ( New Window )
I wouldn't have a party Conforto for Hamilton but there IS something intriguing about adding Billy Hamilton to this team. I could envision him being a monster at the top of the lineup. He's flawed for sure but he can also be a weapon.
A's are arguably the worst team in baseball talent wise. What do guys like Hendriks, Dull, Coulombe (LOOGY) cost? #Mets
Reyes
Walker
Cespedes
Grandy
AsCab
Duda
TDA
Sure sounds intriguing...
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Hate his idea here. Lol. McCutchen is probably worse defensively in CF than Granderson at this point.
I wouldn't have a party Conforto for Hamilton but there IS something intriguing about adding Billy Hamilton to this team. I could envision him being a monster at the top of the lineup. He's flawed for sure but he can also be a weapon.
I'd love to add some real speed. Not sure if I'd love it for Conforto. I'd have to think on that. Lol.
Hopefully the Mets can get rid of Bruce without having to eat much money. It'll be a tough sell because he hasn't hit 1 WAR in a while and makes $14M (1 WAR goes for $7.5M-$8M now), but maybe Sandy works some magic and we actually get something in return.
For a big-market team with payroll and resource flexibility, Hamilton could be an incredible and devastating weapon, because of his once-in-a-generation baserunning skills. He could be used as a starter on some days.
But on other days -- depending on the matchups -- he could be used offensively in the same way that a closer is used to impact games, in being placed in high-leverage situations as a pinch-runner. Nobody is better at stealing bases. Nobody is better at taking the next 90 feet. The Royals demonstrated the potency of a dangerous baserunner over the last couple of years.
Link - ( New Window )
I'd be interested but not for Conforto. Some package of Lagares, Gselleman, Cecchini, Rivera, ok - but can't give up a potential middle of the order cornerstone.
Problem with that argument is most CO play "only" CO. So if you compare Bruce with other CO he comes out looking unusually bad. It's not as if they are comparing him to SS's.
Hundreds and hundreds of balls get hit to the corner OF spots each year. Does misplaying those balls not hurt the team just because they are in corner OF? Should we diminish Cespedes defensive value and arm just because he will primarily play corner OF?
Anyway, I don't think we disagree too much on Bruce (even if you're a bit more optimistic on our return than I am). Let's ship his ass out of here, get whatever salary relief we can get, and use that money elsewhere.