sure if it was mentioned on here but part of Cespedes deal is that he will play exclusively LF unless it's a fill-in situation so for now gotta figures they hold onto Lagares.
Yup. I think a lot of people still dont realize that. At least on other sites.
Chris CotilloVerified account
@ChrisCotillo
Yankees, Red Sox, Astros and Blue Jays remain the four most active clubs on Carlos Beltran, source tells SB Nation.
Rookie maximums for at-bats (130), games pitched (30) or innings (50) in the major leagues"
If the 2 leaders are within 5% of each other, or the leader has less than 35% there will be a run-off between the top 2.
Lugo- ineligible
Montero-ineligible
*Executive Decision: Tebow is ineligible until post top 20 unless someone can make a valid (non-comedy) argument otherwise.
** Made a special decision to skip to #2 early but all other polls will be 24 hours even in the appearance of a potential blowout. If people continue to vote in poll #1 I will add those votes (change the % should it change)
1) German "Amed" Rosario (SS) 27/29 (93%)
2) Dominic Smith (1B) 10/27 (37%) Run-off vs. Justin Dunn (14/24-58%)
3) Justin Dunn (RHP) 14/28 (50%)
4) Robert Gsellman (RHP) 14/26 (54%)
5) Thomas Szapucki (LHP) 16/29 (55%)
6) Desmond "Dez" Lindsay (OF) 16/26 (62%)
7) Brandon Nimmo (OF) 15/28-54%
8) Gavin Cecchini (SS) 14/29-48%
9) Andres Gimenez (SS) 15/21-71%
10) TJ Rivera (Util) 10/25-40%
11) Tomas Nido (C) 7/27-26%
12) Marcos Molina (SP) 6/27-22%, Run-off with Becerra and Alonso 10/25- 40%
13) Peter Alonso (1B) 10/21-48%
14) Wuilmer Becerra (OF) 16/24-67%
15) Gabriel Ynoa (RHP) 9/26-35%, Runoff with Evans 11/14- 79%
16) Merandy Gonzalez (RHP) 6/23-26%, Runoff with Carpio 12/20-60%
17) Anthony Kay (LHP) 8/23-35%, runoff with Carpio 10/19-53%
18) Luis Carpio (SS) 10/23- 43%
19) Josh Smoker (LHP) 13/21-62%
20) Ali Sanchez (C) 5/16-31%, runoff with 11/18-58%
21) Phil Evans (Util) 13/22-59%
22) PJ Conlon (LHP) 12/20-60%
23) Ricky Knapp 5/24-21%, Runoff with Harol Gonzalez 11/20-55%
24) Chris Flexen 3/17-18%, runoff with Harol Gonzalez 7/11-64%
25) Harol Gonzalez 8/16-50%
26) Ricardo Cespedes 3/15-20%, run-off with Simon 8/15-53%
27) Jake Simon (LHP) 5/14-36%
28) Nabil Crismatt (RHP) 3/15-20%, runoff with Church 13/18-72%
29) Kevin McGowan (RHP) 7/19-37%
30) Andrew Church (RHP) 5/22-23%, runoff with Oswalt/Planck 43%
31) Corey Oswalt (RHP) 4/18-22%, runoff with Tiberi 7/50-50%, advances due to previous poll vote count
32) Paul Sewald (RHP) 4/17-24%, runoff with Tiberi 8/15-53%
33) Blake Tiberi (3B) 2/13-15%, Runoff with Thompson 7/12- 58%
34) Cameron Planck (RHP) 6/14-43%
35) Gregory Guerrero (SS) 6/14-43%
then I want Bruce traded too and we better be in on Dexter Fowler. Only way the team would make sense going forward.
This may be the most I've ever agreed with you on a topic lol.
Trading Granderson would really surprise me given the fact he's basically a team spokesman. Add in the fact that trading Granderson means they feel comfortable with Lagares/Conforto in CF with Nimmo being your "insurance"? 1 insanely injury prone "okay" player, one questionable glove in CF and an injury prone guy we don't know much about? That said I'd trade them both if the return were enough. If it were some grand plan for Fowler it would make more sense.
am big on Adam Rubin but I think there is a very real chance they are floating they are exploring Grandy/Conforto as to not make it seem like they will give Bruce away for a song.
Let's trade Rosario, Smith, Gsellman, and Conforto for Trout. We can then trade Bruce and Granderson for prospects to help replenish the farm. I know it's a pie in the sky type scenario but would love to see Sandy do something uncharacteristically aggressive with Trout or possibly golds most.
The prices offered for Bruce will be absurdly low. T the point he may not be worth moving.
Assuming draft pick comp stays, a first rounder for him next offseason is a massive, massive get. Multiple first rounders allow the farm to be replenished. More importantly the pool money could allow you to go WAY overslot for a stud prospect later in the first. Risky gamble, but one being floated as a not so bad fall back.
Let's trade Rosario, Smith, Gsellman, and Conforto for Trout. We can then trade Bruce and Granderson for prospects to help replenish the farm. I know it's a pie in the sky type scenario but would love to see Sandy do something uncharacteristically aggressive with Trout or possibly golds most.
The prices offered for Bruce will be absurdly low. T the point he may not be worth moving.
Assuming draft pick comp stays, a first rounder for him next offseason is a massive, massive get. Multiple first rounders allow the farm to be replenished. More importantly the pool money could allow you to go WAY overslot for a stud prospect later in the first. Risky gamble, but one being floated as a not so bad fall back.
100% not an anti-Sandy thing at all but I have a feeling we will be underwhelmed when it comes to a Bruce return. As I noted previously his market wasn't even all that hot when he was putting up big offensive numbers with teams in a pennant race. I have a feeling some are "overrating" 30 homers. I'd love to be wrong but from everything I've read/heard from people I respect the opinion of the Mets will likely take a bit of a loss on a Bruce trade unless it's a salary swap type of move.
The prices offered for Bruce will be absurdly low. T the point he may not be worth moving.
Assuming draft pick comp stays, a first rounder for him next offseason is a massive, massive get. Multiple first rounders allow the farm to be replenished. More importantly the pool money could allow you to go WAY overslot for a stud prospect later in the first. Risky gamble, but one being floated as a not so bad fall back.
If the prices for Bruce stink right now, why would anyone give up a first rounder to sign him next year? I havn't seen a reason to assume he's going to be any better in 2017 now that he's older.
IMO, we need to trade Bruce this offseason to get some salary relief in order to work on the bullpen and upgrade elsewhere. Paying $13M to our 4th or 5th best OF is a misallocation of resources IMO.
I think we'd be able to get a team to take most of his salary or maybe get another player back that has some salary but might fit us better.
Cespedes deal is beyond great for the Mets all things considered. It's unlikely it provides much value surplus (though of course that's possible if he shows flashes of his 2015 self) but barring a career ending injury it's as good as it gets for a star.
mostly on the big picture stuff Dan. lol. We always got hung up on nit picky stuff. Anwyays, totally agree.
Hows Vic Black doing ;)
Got destroyed by injuries. I will never change my stance that he did enough that year with us that he earned a spot on the roster the following year (prior to the all the injuries) lol. You are obsessed though.
I think the market in terms of Bruce could work both ways
Yes, sometimes teams are more aggressive at the deadline and usually the going rate for a "name" is one good prospect minimum during that time. However, the pool is much bigger in the offseason. I just think plenty of teams will see Bruce as a guy that can turn a game around help their team. Essentially a cheap cleanup hitter. The 33 HR, 99 RBIs look sexy, he's an all-star, and he's only 29. Even non competitive teams might look at him as a guy to help sell tickets. Id be really surprised if Sandy didn't get at least one good prospect at least.
RE: I think the market in terms of Bruce could work both ways
Yes, sometimes teams are more aggressive at the deadline and usually the going rate for a "name" is one good prospect minimum during that time. However, the pool is much bigger in the offseason. I just think plenty of teams will see Bruce as a guy that can turn a game around help their team. Essentially a cheap cleanup hitter. The 33 HR, 99 RBIs look sexy, he's an all-star, and he's only 29. Even non competitive teams might look at him as a guy to help sell tickets. Id be really surprised if Sandy didn't get at least one good prospect at least.
Most of what you said is fair/valid but Jay Bruce doesn't sell a SINGLE ticket c'mon lol
I meant if your a team on the outskirts of competing trading for a Bruce might give the appearance that your serious about competing, maybe adding more at the deadline later, ect.
BA-Phillip Evans, 2b, Mets. Evans won the Eastern League batting title, hitting .335 for Binghamton, but the Mets left him exposed to the Rule 5 Draft on Dec. 8. Evans, 24, is giving scouts a good look in Puerto Rico. He had two hits and two RBIs for Caguas on Tuesday and is slashing .328/.394/.484 with seven extra-base hits in 16 games. Hes walked seven times and struck out just nine times. Evans has a short, compact stroke with some pop. He could fit a team as a utility player.
The casual fan still has no idea what wRC+/OPS + is. Its amazing how many dont even know what OPS itself is. The run of the mill fan still gets their jollies off HR/RBIs. lol
The Mets are not considering Gsellman or Lugo for bullpen roles. If they dont make the team as starters out of spring training they will be going to Vegas to start.
talking to many baseball/sports fans. Analytics is not in the mainstream. When I speak up and mention some stats, they look at me as if I'm talking in a foreign language. Although there is some interest, but most fans don't really care outside of the hardcore baseball fans and professionals in the industry.
The Mets are not considering Gsellman or Lugo for bullpen roles. If they dont make the team as starters out of spring training they will be going to Vegas to start.
Good (though I think it's more likely than not Lugo ends up a reliever). Lugo and Gsellman represent the Mets only real SP depth at the moment unless you believe in Ynoa or Montero and I don't.
talking to many baseball/sports fans. Analytics is not in the mainstream. When I speak up and mention some stats, they look at me as if I'm talking in a foreign language. Although there is some interest, but most fans don't really care outside of the hardcore baseball fans and professionals in the industry.
Yup. At least ESPN is now citing OPS in a batting line when a hitter comes to bat. I think it helps a little but SNY and others dont even do that yet. Its crazy.
The Mets are not considering Gsellman or Lugo for bullpen roles. If they dont make the team as starters out of spring training they will be going to Vegas to start.
Good (though I think it's more likely than not Lugo ends up a reliever). Lugo and Gsellman represent the Mets only real SP depth at the moment unless you believe in Ynoa or Montero and I don't.
Agreed. Im much higher on Ynoa than Montero though as a maybe a ground ball specialist. Still number 5 upside. Im intrigued to see how Flexen, Church, and Molina do/move in 2017 (not saying Im psyched about these guys only that their "next"). They are probably the next line of depth coming in the next year or two. Szapucki/Dunn after that obviously.
I think Gsellman makes the team as the 5th starter
and Wheeler and Lugo head to AAA to start. The more I think about it, Wheeler has just missed too much time. A few good starts in spring training probably wont convince anyone he's 100% ready unless he blows the doors off.
would not be comfortable with Ynoa or Montero making a bunch of starts for this team. Not saying Ynoa is a total lost cause (he still throws hard) but I'm much higher on Lugo and significantly higher on Gsellman (Really impressed me). Knapp and Ynoa are likely similar level talents. The Mets like Flexen (though the numbers haven't been there and major red flags health wise), Church is pretty meh. His pure stuff isn't very good and that showed up in A+. I'd be pretty shocked if Molina isn't a reliever.
they could end up sucking, relievers, ect... My point was though that the Mets wont be moving them to relievers any time soon. They are the next line of depth one way or the other and a lot can change in a season, guys learn new pitches, improve, ect. I like to play numbers.. 3 guys have talent/look interesting maybe 1 surprises and makes it. Not a dis in any way shape or form but you probably didn't think too highly of Gsellman last year this time as an example (at least to not the level he's at now).
DiComo just tweeted Wheeler might start the year coming out of the bullpen. Not sure how I feel about that. Guy has a million injuries and throws a 100 mph and you want to have him pitch every day? Ugh.
the idea of Wheeler "starting" in the pen. Puts Collins in position to have to worry about when/how often he uses Wheeler and Wheeler needs innings. Terrible idea for all involved. Gsellman to the rotation, Lugo to AAA, Wheeler to AA.
the idea of Wheeler "starting" in the pen. Puts Collins in position to have to worry about when/how often he uses Wheeler and Wheeler needs innings. Terrible idea for all involved. Gsellman to the rotation, Lugo to AAA, Wheeler to AA.
+1. Even better sending him to Bing to keep him close and out of Vegas.
they could end up sucking, relievers, ect... My point was though that the Mets wont be moving them to relievers any time soon. They are the next line of depth one way or the other and a lot can change in a season, guys learn new pitches, improve, ect. I like to play numbers.. 3 guys have talent/look interesting maybe 1 surprises and makes it. Not a dis in any way shape or form but you probably didn't think too highly of Gsellman last year this time as an example (at least to not the level he's at now).
I will say while I admit I was not high enough on Gsellman there were many who were high on him. Church/Ynoa don't really have anyone pumping up their stuff. Church was 88-91 when Jeff P saw him (was pretty horrid in A+ in a very SSS) and Ynoa is what he is.
it's a playoff race and Wheeler to the pen helped them, got for it. But to open the season what does it do for anyone? Wheeler doesn't get innings and Collins is stuck with having to manage 1 pitcher differently than the rest.
in Columbia(mostly excellent), and he did struggle with the adjustment in St. Lucie (3.91 FIP) but I seem to remember him turning in a few good games towards the end. Also didnt they jerk him all the way up to Vegas for a minute?(could be misremembering) Its a learning process and Church missed a ton of time to injury. He also could have tired down the stretch by the time he got to St. Lucie. I cant take such samples too seriously. He's just a guy to watch for me. Could put himself on the radar in 2017, could not.
in Columbia(mostly excellent), and he did struggle with the adjustment in St. Lucie (3.91 FIP) but I seem to remember him turning in a few good games towards the end. Also didnt they jerk him all the way up to Vegas for a minute?(could be misremembering) Its a learning process and Church missed a ton of time to injury. He also could have tired down the stretch by the time he got to St. Lucie. I cant take such samples too seriously. He's just a guy to watch for me. Could put himself on the radar in 2017, could not.
Forget the FIP. He threw 35 innings striking out 22, for the season 78 k's over 95.2 innings. In conjunction with his "meh" velocity his era had people a bit too excited. Gsellman was still throwing 91-93 even prior to 2016. Church isn't all that young for a guy you are hoping to have a velocity spike (22).
citing him as a "just miss" on top 100 lists. Anyways, all good.
Ynoa is what he is, a guy who throws a straight solid velocity FB with not much else. 78 k's over 154.1 innings solid ground ball rate or not generally does NOT play as an MLB starter.
Yup. I think a lot of people still dont realize that. At least on other sites.
@ChrisCotillo
Yankees, Red Sox, Astros and Blue Jays remain the four most active clubs on Carlos Beltran, source tells SB Nation.
If the 2 leaders are within 5% of each other, or the leader has less than 35% there will be a run-off between the top 2.
Lugo- ineligible
Montero-ineligible
*Executive Decision: Tebow is ineligible until post top 20 unless someone can make a valid (non-comedy) argument otherwise.
** Made a special decision to skip to #2 early but all other polls will be 24 hours even in the appearance of a potential blowout. If people continue to vote in poll #1 I will add those votes (change the % should it change)
1) German "Amed" Rosario (SS) 27/29 (93%)
2) Dominic Smith (1B) 10/27 (37%) Run-off vs. Justin Dunn (14/24-58%)
3) Justin Dunn (RHP) 14/28 (50%)
4) Robert Gsellman (RHP) 14/26 (54%)
5) Thomas Szapucki (LHP) 16/29 (55%)
6) Desmond "Dez" Lindsay (OF) 16/26 (62%)
7) Brandon Nimmo (OF) 15/28-54%
8) Gavin Cecchini (SS) 14/29-48%
9) Andres Gimenez (SS) 15/21-71%
10) TJ Rivera (Util) 10/25-40%
11) Tomas Nido (C) 7/27-26%
12) Marcos Molina (SP) 6/27-22%, Run-off with Becerra and Alonso 10/25- 40%
13) Peter Alonso (1B) 10/21-48%
14) Wuilmer Becerra (OF) 16/24-67%
15) Gabriel Ynoa (RHP) 9/26-35%, Runoff with Evans 11/14- 79%
16) Merandy Gonzalez (RHP) 6/23-26%, Runoff with Carpio 12/20-60%
17) Anthony Kay (LHP) 8/23-35%, runoff with Carpio 10/19-53%
18) Luis Carpio (SS) 10/23- 43%
19) Josh Smoker (LHP) 13/21-62%
20) Ali Sanchez (C) 5/16-31%, runoff with 11/18-58%
21) Phil Evans (Util) 13/22-59%
22) PJ Conlon (LHP) 12/20-60%
23) Ricky Knapp 5/24-21%, Runoff with Harol Gonzalez 11/20-55%
24) Chris Flexen 3/17-18%, runoff with Harol Gonzalez 7/11-64%
25) Harol Gonzalez 8/16-50%
26) Ricardo Cespedes 3/15-20%, run-off with Simon 8/15-53%
27) Jake Simon (LHP) 5/14-36%
28) Nabil Crismatt (RHP) 3/15-20%, runoff with Church 13/18-72%
29) Kevin McGowan (RHP) 7/19-37%
30) Andrew Church (RHP) 5/22-23%, runoff with Oswalt/Planck 43%
31) Corey Oswalt (RHP) 4/18-22%, runoff with Tiberi 7/50-50%, advances due to previous poll vote count
32) Paul Sewald (RHP) 4/17-24%, runoff with Tiberi 8/15-53%
33) Blake Tiberi (3B) 2/13-15%, Runoff with Thompson 7/12- 58%
34) Cameron Planck (RHP) 6/14-43%
35) Gregory Guerrero (SS) 6/14-43%
This may be the most I've ever agreed with you on a topic lol.
Trading Granderson would really surprise me given the fact he's basically a team spokesman. Add in the fact that trading Granderson means they feel comfortable with Lagares/Conforto in CF with Nimmo being your "insurance"? 1 insanely injury prone "okay" player, one questionable glove in CF and an injury prone guy we don't know much about? That said I'd trade them both if the return were enough. If it were some grand plan for Fowler it would make more sense.
Shops Conforto and Grandy for insane prices and wait for someone to settle for Bruce.
A+ Agree 100%
Let's trade Rosario, Smith, Gsellman, and Conforto for Trout. We can then trade Bruce and Granderson for prospects to help replenish the farm. I know it's a pie in the sky type scenario but would love to see Sandy do something uncharacteristically aggressive with Trout or possibly golds most.
Lineup
Nimmo
Cabrera
Wright
Trout
Cespedes
Duda
Walker
d'Arnaud
Assuming draft pick comp stays, a first rounder for him next offseason is a massive, massive get. Multiple first rounders allow the farm to be replenished. More importantly the pool money could allow you to go WAY overslot for a stud prospect later in the first. Risky gamble, but one being floated as a not so bad fall back.
Let's trade Rosario, Smith, Gsellman, and Conforto for Trout. We can then trade Bruce and Granderson for prospects to help replenish the farm. I know it's a pie in the sky type scenario but would love to see Sandy do something uncharacteristically aggressive with Trout or possibly golds most.
Lineup
Nimmo
Cabrera
Wright
Trout
Cespedes
Duda
Walker
d'Arnaud
There is no way you are getting Trout for that package come on.
Hows Vic Black doing ;)
Assuming draft pick comp stays, a first rounder for him next offseason is a massive, massive get. Multiple first rounders allow the farm to be replenished. More importantly the pool money could allow you to go WAY overslot for a stud prospect later in the first. Risky gamble, but one being floated as a not so bad fall back.
100% not an anti-Sandy thing at all but I have a feeling we will be underwhelmed when it comes to a Bruce return. As I noted previously his market wasn't even all that hot when he was putting up big offensive numbers with teams in a pennant race. I have a feeling some are "overrating" 30 homers. I'd love to be wrong but from everything I've read/heard from people I respect the opinion of the Mets will likely take a bit of a loss on a Bruce trade unless it's a salary swap type of move.
Assuming draft pick comp stays, a first rounder for him next offseason is a massive, massive get. Multiple first rounders allow the farm to be replenished. More importantly the pool money could allow you to go WAY overslot for a stud prospect later in the first. Risky gamble, but one being floated as a not so bad fall back.
If the prices for Bruce stink right now, why would anyone give up a first rounder to sign him next year? I havn't seen a reason to assume he's going to be any better in 2017 now that he's older.
IMO, we need to trade Bruce this offseason to get some salary relief in order to work on the bullpen and upgrade elsewhere. Paying $13M to our 4th or 5th best OF is a misallocation of resources IMO.
I think we'd be able to get a team to take most of his salary or maybe get another player back that has some salary but might fit us better.
Quote:
mostly on the big picture stuff Dan. lol. We always got hung up on nit picky stuff. Anwyays, totally agree.
Hows Vic Black doing ;)
Got destroyed by injuries. I will never change my stance that he did enough that year with us that he earned a spot on the roster the following year (prior to the all the injuries) lol. You are obsessed though.
Most of what you said is fair/valid but Jay Bruce doesn't sell a SINGLE ticket c'mon lol
Good (though I think it's more likely than not Lugo ends up a reliever). Lugo and Gsellman represent the Mets only real SP depth at the moment unless you believe in Ynoa or Montero and I don't.
Yup. At least ESPN is now citing OPS in a batting line when a hitter comes to bat. I think it helps a little but SNY and others dont even do that yet. Its crazy.
Quote:
The Mets are not considering Gsellman or Lugo for bullpen roles. If they dont make the team as starters out of spring training they will be going to Vegas to start.
Good (though I think it's more likely than not Lugo ends up a reliever). Lugo and Gsellman represent the Mets only real SP depth at the moment unless you believe in Ynoa or Montero and I don't.
Agreed. Im much higher on Ynoa than Montero though as a maybe a ground ball specialist. Still number 5 upside. Im intrigued to see how Flexen, Church, and Molina do/move in 2017 (not saying Im psyched about these guys only that their "next"). They are probably the next line of depth coming in the next year or two. Szapucki/Dunn after that obviously.
"Ben Berkon @BenBerkon 16s16 seconds ago
@WexlerRules Agreed. There is no reason to rush Wheeler when Mets have Gsell and Lugo."
+1. Even better sending him to Bing to keep him close and out of Vegas.
I will say while I admit I was not high enough on Gsellman there were many who were high on him. Church/Ynoa don't really have anyone pumping up their stuff. Church was 88-91 when Jeff P saw him (was pretty horrid in A+ in a very SSS) and Ynoa is what he is.
Forget the FIP. He threw 35 innings striking out 22, for the season 78 k's over 95.2 innings. In conjunction with his "meh" velocity his era had people a bit too excited. Gsellman was still throwing 91-93 even prior to 2016. Church isn't all that young for a guy you are hoping to have a velocity spike (22).
Ynoa is what he is, a guy who throws a straight solid velocity FB with not much else. 78 k's over 154.1 innings solid ground ball rate or not generally does NOT play as an MLB starter.