you don't even hear Ynoa "in the mix" for the rotation like Gsellman, Wheeler, Lugo.
All three of those have already experienced success at the major league level. This has devolved into something else now so I'm just going to bow out. Lol.
And the "experts" is it's almost always reactionary. Very few go out on a limb before a guy emerges. Church rips off 100 innings in St. Lucie next year that match his Columbia from last year and suddenly everyone's mentioning him and it still seems "fresh" because 99 % of the fanbase isn't tracking the minors to that level. It's all good... nothing wrong with it...but sometimes it's cool to just sit back and see what happens. These are all top 20/30 guys we are talking about. It's not like we are discussing possible intrigue/improvement from filler/zeros.
surprised how many people thought JDM would be "cheap" to obtain while still believing the inferior Bruce would bring back a good return. Martinez is a better player, not really sure how that works lol
And the "experts" is it's almost always reactionary. Very few go out on a limb before a guy emerges. Church rips off 100 innings in St. Lucie next year that match his Columbia from last year and suddenly everyone's mentioning him and it still seems "fresh" because 99 % of the fanbase isn't tracking the minors to that level. It's all good... nothing wrong with it...but sometimes it's cool to just sit back and see what happens. These are all top 20/30 guys we are talking about. It's not like we are discussing possible intrigue/improvement from filler/zeros.
Pundits generally aren't changing their view much on "meh" velocity guys without much projection. 6'2 190 88-92 on the FB isn't much to dream on.
20. Andrew Church, RHP
Height: 6'2", Weight: 200 lbs.
DOB: 8/7/94 (22)
Acquired: 2nd round, 2013 Draft (Basic High School, Nevada)
Bats/Throws: R/R
2016: Columbia (Low-A): 9 G (9 GS), 56.2 IP, 38 H, 16 R, 14 ER (2.22 ERA), 10 BB, 52 K / St. Lucie (High-A): 6 G (6 GS), 35.0 IP, 31 H, 16 R, 14 ER (3.60 ERA), 14 H, BB, 22 K / Las Vegas (Triple-A): 1 G (1 GS), 4.0 IP, 7 H, 3 R, 3 ER (6.75 ERA), 1 BB, 4 K
The saga of Andrew Church has been a relatively strange one, and 2016 was no different. After falling off the radar thanks to injuries, Church resurfaced in 2016 and was highly effective in both Columbia, where he spent the bulk of the season, and St. Lucie. His fastball sits 89-91 MPH and touches as high as 95 MPH. Since being drafted, he has sidelined his curveball and instead replaced it with a slider that is more effective thanks to his arm slot. He rounds out his pitching repertoire with a changeup that is still very raw and is a work in progress.
Greg says:
We had largely written off the former second-round pick after he had floundered in extended spring training and short season ball since being drafted. He burst back onto the scene this year, dominating Low-A and holding his own in High-A. He features a fastball that can touch 95, but is probably more of a low 90s offering. His slider appears to be an above average offering, so that combination should get him to at least Double-A as a starter. If his changeup catches up to the slider, and the fastball settles in the higher range hes shown, it could be an exciting profile.
Lukas says:
Church reached Triple-A and posted good peripherals in his four-inning sample, but the rest of his minor league resume remains unimpressive. He also has yet to throw more than 100 innings in a season, making him a likely reliever at the next level. Close to major league ready pitching has some value though, and maybe Dan Warthen makes things play up.
Steve says:
I didnt really know what to make of Church when the Mets drafted him in the second-round years ago, and to be honest, I still dont know what to make of him. Despite solid numbers in 2016, I feel a bit pessimistic on Church. Nothing that he throws is exactly plus, his is still raw, and its not exactly like the right-hander has a track record. Still, he will be entering his age 22 season, and has time to refine his secondary pitches.
What would Mets have to add to Bruce to get Andrew McCutchen from the Pirates? Nimmo and Cecchini? Do you do that trade?
Pirates would 100% balk at that. McCutchen is their "Wright", his deal is team friendly and they have young talent at SS. It would start with Conforto or Matz.
His metrics were trending down for years prior to last year where he was just ridiculously bad defensively. He's in his 30s and some guys just dont age well. I dont see him as a fit really.
His metrics were trending down for years prior to last year where he was just ridiculously bad defensively. He's in his 30s and some guys just dont age well. I dont see him as a fit really.
On the cheap I'd do it but overall I agree. I'd certainly do Bruce/Nimmo/Cecchini (which amounts to Nimmo/Cecchini but the Pirates would not.
and I actually do think he will bounce back offensively... I just think he needs to be in a corner going forward. Everybody penciling him in as this CF are a little off IMO.
and I actually do think he will bounce back offensively... I just think he needs to be in a corner going forward. Everybody penciling him in as this CF are a little off IMO.
There is some thought he was struggling so badly at the plate that he took it into the field with him (who knows how true it is) but it's more likely he simply is a step slower. On the cheap it would be a no-brainer decline and all (incredible contract) but more likely than not he'd be in a corner in your best alignment.
And the dodgers and Yankees. With everyone else not really having much of an impact. It is semi crazy to me that the players union seemingly gave up nothing in this whole thing but got fairly big concessions.
@Ken_Rosenthal 2h2 hours ago
Some additional details on new CBA coming, starting with this: A player no longer can receive a qualifying offer more than once.
@Ken_Rosenthal 2h2 hours ago
Team that loses QO free agent will get pick only if player signs contract of $50M+. Pick it gets will depend upon that teams market size.
@Ken_Rosenthal 2h2 hours ago
Club that signs QO free agent, if it exceeds luxury-tax threshold, will lose 2nd-rounder, 5th-rounder and $1M in intl bonus money.
@Ken_Rosenthal 2h2 hours ago
Club that signs QO free agent, if it does not exceed luxury-tax threshold, will lose 3rd-rounder.
@Ken_Rosenthal 2h2 hours ago
And on schedule: Starting in 2018, season will start mid-week, helping create extra off-days in schedule.
@Ken_Rosenthal 1h1 hour ago
Owners also had concerns about creating problems with extra spot from April-Aug. in order to fix problem in Sept. Topic could be revisited.
@Joelsherman1 1h1 hour ago Manhattan, NY
Heard 1 other interesting CBA detail: new MLB players will be banned from using smokeless tobacco, those already playing grandfathered in
or that he's playing Santa and not an injury thanks.
Michael BaronVerified account
@michaelgbaron
Jacob deGrom will meet members of the media tomorrow 10:45 AM at Citi Field. There isnt any other information. So, I wonder if thats good.
Ken RosenthalVerified account
@Ken_Rosenthal
Sources: #Pirates targeting #Nationals minor-league OFer Victor Robles, 19, in McCutchen talks, as they did in July. Will want more as well.
and Walker back plus the theoretical health of at least a couple if not all of the starting pitchers the Mets still won't be favorites.
I'd like to see them sign Chapman or acquire a closer, but I know that's a long shot. With uncertainty around Familia I'd hate to see the back of the bullpen go from a strength to a weakness so quickly.
not as obsessed with Granderson or Bruce for a reliever as some people. Why can't they trade either one for prospects and use surplus (or FA) for a reliever? Why must both issues be corrected within the same move?
not as obsessed with Granderson or Bruce for a reliever as some people. Why can't they trade either one for prospects and use surplus (or FA) for a reliever? Why must both issues be corrected within the same move?
they don't have to be. just a suggestion. the Mets seem inclined to trade Bruce and they need a bullpen guy.
if they trade a prospect for one, great, the point wasn't getting rid of Bruce, it was acquiring bullpen help.
not as obsessed with Granderson or Bruce for a reliever as some people. Why can't they trade either one for prospects and use surplus (or FA) for a reliever? Why must both issues be corrected within the same move?
they don't have to be. just a suggestion. the Mets seem inclined to trade Bruce and they need a bullpen guy.
if they trade a prospect for one, great, the point wasn't getting rid of Bruce, it was acquiring bullpen help.
I don't care so much how they do it.
PJ,
100% wasn't aimed at you. I just see people mentioning a ton of relievers for one of them (I'm not against a reliever). Just not sure why it has to all go down in one move. You add surplus somewhere else and add a different reliever it's the same idea. Also some of the relievers being mentioned are pretty unrealistic. 1 year of Granderson isn't buying you 5 years of Givens etc.
I don't know the league and all the players as well as some of you.
I just know the Mets could use bullpen help, even more if Familia is suspended.
Chapman is the name I know is available, so I'd seriously consider him, but 100M (ballpark #'s I'd heard for his next contract) seems too much for a closer, but I'd rather get a guy like Chapman for just money than trade assets for someone lesser.
could still get 1st round picks if any of the pitchers or other players go, but they won't be able to qualify Walker again.
"Key changes involve the qualifying offers clubs can make to their former players after they become free agents the figure was $17.2 million this year. If a player turns down the offer and signs elsewhere, his new team forfeits an amateur draft pick, which usually had been in the first round under the old deal.
Under the new rules, a player can receive a qualifying offer only once in his career and will have 10 days to consider it instead of seven. A club signing a player who declined a qualifying offer would lose its third-highest amateur draft pick if it is a revenue-sharing receiver, its second- and fifth-highest picks (plus a loss of $1 million in its international draft pool) if it pays luxury tax for the just-ended season, and its second-highest pick (plus $500,000 in the international draft pool) if it is any other team.
A club losing a free agent who passed up a qualifying offer would receive an extra selection after the first round of the next draft if the player signed a contract for $50 million or more and after competitive balance round B if under $50 million. However, if that team pays luxury tax, the extra draft pick would drop to after the fourth round."
Wow. The A's are no longer classified as "small market" so they will lose 30-40 million per season from revenue sharing. You would assume that would make them a prime candidate to snipe some of their "expensive" talent but their most expensive players are Madson (yuck), Lowrie (yuck), Axford and Doolittle who is on a crazy good deal.
All three of those have already experienced success at the major league level. This has devolved into something else now so I'm just going to bow out. Lol.
Pundits generally aren't changing their view much on "meh" velocity guys without much projection. 6'2 190 88-92 on the FB isn't much to dream on.
20. Andrew Church, RHP
Height: 6'2", Weight: 200 lbs.
DOB: 8/7/94 (22)
Acquired: 2nd round, 2013 Draft (Basic High School, Nevada)
Bats/Throws: R/R
2016: Columbia (Low-A): 9 G (9 GS), 56.2 IP, 38 H, 16 R, 14 ER (2.22 ERA), 10 BB, 52 K / St. Lucie (High-A): 6 G (6 GS), 35.0 IP, 31 H, 16 R, 14 ER (3.60 ERA), 14 H, BB, 22 K / Las Vegas (Triple-A): 1 G (1 GS), 4.0 IP, 7 H, 3 R, 3 ER (6.75 ERA), 1 BB, 4 K
The saga of Andrew Church has been a relatively strange one, and 2016 was no different. After falling off the radar thanks to injuries, Church resurfaced in 2016 and was highly effective in both Columbia, where he spent the bulk of the season, and St. Lucie. His fastball sits 89-91 MPH and touches as high as 95 MPH. Since being drafted, he has sidelined his curveball and instead replaced it with a slider that is more effective thanks to his arm slot. He rounds out his pitching repertoire with a changeup that is still very raw and is a work in progress.
Greg says:
We had largely written off the former second-round pick after he had floundered in extended spring training and short season ball since being drafted. He burst back onto the scene this year, dominating Low-A and holding his own in High-A. He features a fastball that can touch 95, but is probably more of a low 90s offering. His slider appears to be an above average offering, so that combination should get him to at least Double-A as a starter. If his changeup catches up to the slider, and the fastball settles in the higher range hes shown, it could be an exciting profile.
Lukas says:
Church reached Triple-A and posted good peripherals in his four-inning sample, but the rest of his minor league resume remains unimpressive. He also has yet to throw more than 100 innings in a season, making him a likely reliever at the next level. Close to major league ready pitching has some value though, and maybe Dan Warthen makes things play up.
Steve says:
I didnt really know what to make of Church when the Mets drafted him in the second-round years ago, and to be honest, I still dont know what to make of him. Despite solid numbers in 2016, I feel a bit pessimistic on Church. Nothing that he throws is exactly plus, his is still raw, and its not exactly like the right-hander has a track record. Still, he will be entering his age 22 season, and has time to refine his secondary pitches.
Link - ( New Window )
Pirates would 100% balk at that. McCutchen is their "Wright", his deal is team friendly and they have young talent at SS. It would start with Conforto or Matz.
On the cheap I'd do it but overall I agree. I'd certainly do Bruce/Nimmo/Cecchini (which amounts to Nimmo/Cecchini but the Pirates would not.
There is some thought he was struggling so badly at the plate that he took it into the field with him (who knows how true it is) but it's more likely he simply is a step slower. On the cheap it would be a no-brainer decline and all (incredible contract) but more likely than not he'd be in a corner in your best alignment.
Also how are the owners giving this up if they aren't getting an international draft?
Some additional details on new CBA coming, starting with this: A player no longer can receive a qualifying offer more than once.
@Ken_Rosenthal 2h2 hours ago
Team that loses QO free agent will get pick only if player signs contract of $50M+. Pick it gets will depend upon that teams market size.
@Ken_Rosenthal 2h2 hours ago
Club that signs QO free agent, if it exceeds luxury-tax threshold, will lose 2nd-rounder, 5th-rounder and $1M in intl bonus money.
@Ken_Rosenthal 2h2 hours ago
Club that signs QO free agent, if it does not exceed luxury-tax threshold, will lose 3rd-rounder.
@Ken_Rosenthal 2h2 hours ago
And on schedule: Starting in 2018, season will start mid-week, helping create extra off-days in schedule.
@Ken_Rosenthal 1h1 hour ago
Owners also had concerns about creating problems with extra spot from April-Aug. in order to fix problem in Sept. Topic could be revisited.
@Joelsherman1 1h1 hour ago Manhattan, NY
Heard 1 other interesting CBA detail: new MLB players will be banned from using smokeless tobacco, those already playing grandfathered in
Michael BaronVerified account
@michaelgbaron
Jacob deGrom will meet members of the media tomorrow 10:45 AM at Citi Field. There isnt any other information. So, I wonder if thats good.
It's just a promo for the Mets, Baron's tweet set off alarms but it's nothing either way.
I blame Michael Baron! lol
That would be some lineup.
@Ken_Rosenthal
Sources: #Pirates targeting #Nationals minor-league OFer Victor Robles, 19, in McCutchen talks, as they did in July. Will want more as well.
Orioles seem to have interest in granderson but not really Bruce #orioles #mets
Walker "will be 100% for ST", on David "we hope he will be" ready to go
+1. I saw that, felt he was a bounceback candidate because of it.
I'd like to see them sign Chapman or acquire a closer, but I know that's a long shot. With uncertainty around Familia I'd hate to see the back of the bullpen go from a strength to a weakness so quickly.
Maybe deal Bruce for a young-ish closer type.
they don't have to be. just a suggestion. the Mets seem inclined to trade Bruce and they need a bullpen guy.
if they trade a prospect for one, great, the point wasn't getting rid of Bruce, it was acquiring bullpen help.
I don't care so much how they do it.
Quote:
not as obsessed with Granderson or Bruce for a reliever as some people. Why can't they trade either one for prospects and use surplus (or FA) for a reliever? Why must both issues be corrected within the same move?
they don't have to be. just a suggestion. the Mets seem inclined to trade Bruce and they need a bullpen guy.
if they trade a prospect for one, great, the point wasn't getting rid of Bruce, it was acquiring bullpen help.
I don't care so much how they do it.
PJ,
100% wasn't aimed at you. I just see people mentioning a ton of relievers for one of them (I'm not against a reliever). Just not sure why it has to all go down in one move. You add surplus somewhere else and add a different reliever it's the same idea. Also some of the relievers being mentioned are pretty unrealistic. 1 year of Granderson isn't buying you 5 years of Givens etc.
I just know the Mets could use bullpen help, even more if Familia is suspended.
Chapman is the name I know is available, so I'd seriously consider him, but 100M (ballpark #'s I'd heard for his next contract) seems too much for a closer, but I'd rather get a guy like Chapman for just money than trade assets for someone lesser.
Link - ( New Window )
(expectation is the Pirates do NOT get Robles in the deal).
"Key changes involve the qualifying offers clubs can make to their former players after they become free agents the figure was $17.2 million this year. If a player turns down the offer and signs elsewhere, his new team forfeits an amateur draft pick, which usually had been in the first round under the old deal.
Under the new rules, a player can receive a qualifying offer only once in his career and will have 10 days to consider it instead of seven. A club signing a player who declined a qualifying offer would lose its third-highest amateur draft pick if it is a revenue-sharing receiver, its second- and fifth-highest picks (plus a loss of $1 million in its international draft pool) if it pays luxury tax for the just-ended season, and its second-highest pick (plus $500,000 in the international draft pool) if it is any other team.
A club losing a free agent who passed up a qualifying offer would receive an extra selection after the first round of the next draft if the player signed a contract for $50 million or more and after competitive balance round B if under $50 million. However, if that team pays luxury tax, the extra draft pick would drop to after the fourth round."
Has OF experience as well
Link - ( New Window )