NGT: College Football Playoff rankings

And/or Colorado! Michigan beat 6-8 and same amount of losses. Sucks for Wisc, penn st and colorado....oh well

By not playing in a championship game.
If Clemson and Washington lose.

I think the winner of Wisconsin/PSU goes to the playoff. Michigan probably needs both VT and Colorado to win

.

Loves conference championship winners. If Clemson loses they are out, but no way in hell does Michigan make it back in. Possibly Penn State or Wisconsin. That would eliminate the whole why is Ohio State in and they have no championship.

Personally I think Ohio State is overrated they have not played well the past few weeks. Im not talking about The Michigan game they didn't play well before that game either.

and I never cared for him as a color man, but he has a point. If Penn St gets in over Michigan when they lost to them by nearly 40 it will create waves... I believe the committee is praying that Clemson and Washington both win...

I think Michigan is in b/c they beat Wisconsin and Penn State.

Damn homer refs in Columbus though...

Does 3 big ten teams get in ?
Ohio St., Michigan and winner of the big ten championship.
So does Oklahoma and Colorado have any chance?

so I think what we got now will remain as the final four.

Hope it happens sooner rather than later. Also hope it never goes to 16.

that Ohio St is in the top 4 yet they are not playing in the Big 10 Championship? Yes I understand the 1 loss, but seriously didn't they lose to Penn St?

see Wash or Clemson losing.

Both Penn State and Wisconsin have a better resume than Michigan with a win. They will be jumped.

but I think 4 is the right number. Since top teams rarely play each other and have few common games, determining a champion "off the field" was a poor system. In some years before the playoff, there still was a clear best team. In other years, two teams had a strong claim. Rarely, 3 or 4 teams had a reasonable claim. In the instances where 2, 3 or 4 teams have a reasonable claim to be #1, deciding it "on the field" is a good system.

I don't think there are 8 teams that, in the absence of a playoff, all had a reasonable claim to be number 1 / the champion. I think if the playoff goes to more than 4 games, the college regular season is greatly diluted. 4 is the right number; leave it alone.

I'm not even saying that as a homer. It will depend on if the offense shows up. The last time they played Clemson was in an ACC championship game and they defensively had them figured out, but the offense couldn't score. Bud knows how to play them defensively.

Whoever wins the BiG should be in if Clemson loses.

Have conference champions make it then have the remaining spots open to at large teams and undefeated teams. It won't happen but if Western Michigan went undefeated again next year they would have an argument as a top 8 team IMO but would never break a top 4.

I have always maintained the playoff should be about getting undefeated teams and conference champions playing each other in games that would never happen otherwise. I hate having repeats of games already played when the amount of college football teams is so massive.

You never know who the best is until teams actually play outside of their conference.

In comment 13240565 Jon in NYC said:

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see Wash or Clemson losing. Both Penn State and Wisconsin have a better resume than Michigan with a win. They will be jumped.

Um, no they dont. Wisconsin will have 1 top 10 win. Penn state would have 2. Michigan has 3 including a 40 point win over PSU.

In comment 13240606 Patrick77 said:

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Have conference champions make it then have the remaining spots open to at large teams and undefeated teams. It won't happen but if Western Michigan went undefeated again next year they would have an argument as a top 8 team IMO but would never break a top 4. I have always maintained the playoff should be about getting undefeated teams and conference champions playing each other in games that would never happen otherwise. I hate having repeats of games already played when the amount of college football teams is so massive. You never know who the best is until teams actually play outside of their conference.

What are you even talking about with repeat games? The only time it happens is in conference championships and even if that happens it's pretty rare.

PSU wins convincingly and Clemson and Wash lose could we see 3 big ten teams in the payoffs? If so that's a joke. You could argue teams 11-15 are better then any team 6-10.

being interviewed tonight on ESPN, but he said that the gap between Washington and Michigan is razor thin. He was then asked how narrow or wide is the gap between PennSt and Ohio St and he wouldn't answer. He also kept emphasizing how the committee picks top 4 teams in the country and only goes to protocols if two teams are extremely close.

It seems to me that the committee is very high and Michigan, and sour on Penn St. I get the feeling if Washington loses that Michigan will end up getting the 4th spot.

In comment 13240565 Jon in NYC said:

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see Wash or Clemson losing. Both Penn State and Wisconsin have a better resume than Michigan with a win. They will be jumped.

Couple questions.

Wisconsin does for sure. Penn State I agree, but I'm not as sure.

Also, if Michigan gets in, every coach on the planet is going to think you can lessen the impact of a big loss by bitching about the officiating for days straight following the game.

please disregard.

In comment 13240594 Trainmaster said:

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but I think 4 is the right number. Since top teams rarely play each other and have few common games, determining a champion "off the field" was a poor system. In some years before the playoff, there still was a clear best team.

Isn't that a better argument for why you should have 8 teams?

I realize it doesn't happen often but the winner of a conference should be the one that moves on. The expanded (spots 5-8 if it is expanded) playofff can be for the teams unable to be good enough to win their division or conference.

I don't care who is better Auburn Vs Alabama or FSU vs Clemson Michigan vs Wisconsin or penn state. Just win your division, win your conference, and keep winning. I care way more who is better when it comes to Clemson vs Washington or other cross conference matchups.

The 2nd and 3rd place teams in a conference should never have a shot over another conference champion or an undefeated team. The goal should be to get the best against the best. I think the selection committtee should be willing to risk getting the "second best" teams wrong in order to have the best teams play champions and undefeated teams.

It hasn't mattered much in recent history but it may this year. Wisconsin or PSU should get in over a two loss Michigan. If Clemson loses they should be out.

If they stay at 4, Lord knows what's going to happen if they don't score early against Alabama.

...and the may leap over Western Michigan for the Cotton Bowl. Western Michigan would be 13-0 v Navy's 11-2 record, but Navy has a much higher strength of schedule. Lotta work to do between now and that conversation.

I see them getting set up to be screwed. A loss and they're out, and deservedly so.

In comment 13240822 Bobby Humphrey's Earpad said:

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If they stay at 4, Lord knows what's going to happen if they don't score early against Alabama.

It doesn't really matter this year who the other top 3 teams are. Alabama is playing on another level. In years past there would be a team like clemson, Ohio State, or Auburn on their level.

This year appears to just be who gets to be the sacrificial lamb. The losing team in the final game might lose by just as much as the 25th ranked team would. Clemson or Ohio would have to play the game of their lives to beat them. Washington I expect to be murdered for 4 quarters - none of that "body blows" shit Alabama did in previous years to wear teams down. I'd expect domination from the first snap.

With that said no way in hell am I cheering for Alabama.

In comment 13240671 Mike in Long Beach said:

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In comment 13240565 Jon in NYC said: Quote: see Wash or Clemson losing. Both Penn State and Wisconsin have a better resume than Michigan with a win. They will be jumped. Couple questions. Wisconsin does for sure. Penn State I agree, but I'm not as sure. Also, if Michigan gets in, every coach on the planet is going to think you can lessen the impact of a big loss by bitching about the officiating for days straight following the game.

How do Wisconsin and PSU have better resumes if they win? Again, PSU lost to Michigan by 40 and will have two top 10 wins over OSU and Wisconsin.

Wisconsin would have wins over PSU and LSU, and thats it. Plus, they also lost to Michigan.

Michigan has 3 wins over top 10 teams. They have by far the better resume and the tougher schedule than either PSU or Wisconsin.

In comment 13240807 Patrick77 said:

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I realize it doesn't happen often but the winner of a conference should be the one that moves on. The expanded (spots 5-8 if it is expanded) playofff can be for the teams unable to be good enough to win their division or conference. The 2nd and 3rd place teams in a conference should never have a shot over another conference champion or an undefeated team. The goal should be to get the best against the best. I think the selection committtee should be willing to risk getting the "second best" teams wrong in order to have the best teams play champions and undefeated teams.

I normally would agree with this but the Big 10 has the dumbest system ever created. Not every team plays each other in the conference. Think of it this way. If PSU and Wisconsin would have played each other in the regular season this year, the loser would have been eliminated from the championship game. It was just pure luck they both got into this position. And plus the split divisions in the big 10 are lopsided. If OSU or Michigan were in the other division, they would be in the big 10 title game. It's really a broken system in the big 10 and has been ever since they let Maryland and rutgers in. This was a monumental mistake.

It seems like the committee is basing it off win/loss record and head to head. And is that a bad thing since many conference have flawed schedules?

In comment 13240854 dep026 said:

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In comment 13240807 Patrick77 said: Quote: I realize it doesn't happen often but the winner of a conference should be the one that moves on. The expanded (spots 5-8 if it is expanded) playofff can be for the teams unable to be good enough to win their division or conference. The 2nd and 3rd place teams in a conference should never have a shot over another conference champion or an undefeated team. The goal should be to get the best against the best. I think the selection committtee should be willing to risk getting the "second best" teams wrong in order to have the best teams play champions and undefeated teams. I normally would agree with this but the Big 10 has the dumbest system ever created. Not every team plays each other in the conference. Think of it this way. If PSU and Wisconsin would have played each other in the regular season this year, the loser would have been eliminated from the championship game. It was just pure luck they both got into this position. And plus the split divisions in the big 10 are lopsided. If OSU or Michigan were in the other division, they would be in the big 10 title game. It's really a broken system in the big 10 and has been ever since they let Maryland and rutgers in. This was a monumental mistake. It seems like the committee is basing it off win/loss record and head to head. And is that a bad thing since many conference have flawed schedules?

The Big 10 has to rebalance divisions somehow.

hypothetically if Wisconsin and Michigan switched divisions just for this past year. Wisconsin goes from the 1 seed out west to the 4 seed in the east just based on record. So just on record, we have a team that wasnt even in the top 3 in its conference, in the title game.

Makes sense, huh?

I agree it is stupid but this head to head stuff gets ridiculous. Iowa beat Michigan, NDSU beat Iowa. Iowa lost to multiple unranked teams but beat Michigan. That loss hasn't seemed to afffect them much at all. Michigan, PSU and Wisconsin all have 2 losses. Michigan beat Wisconsin by 7 and killed PSU.

In the 4 team playoff the arguments just go round and round in circles. I would hope it eventually goes to 8 (no bigger) and there are spots for 4-6 conference champions and the others can be wild cards ( an undefeated Cinderella team like - Navy, WMU, NDSU, or Notre Dame, the second best Big 10, ACC, SEC team, etc...)

Maybe until they fix these championship games it won't matter but in almost any sport winning your division or conference gets you a higher seed.

Here's your reason. Urban Mayer. The crack committee believes he has at least a chance of figuring out a way to beat Saban. Because if you really look at it, OSU tied both Michigan and Wisconsin, and lost to Penn State. Exactly how does that make them considerably better than the three of them? Yes, I know they won in OT, but that OT system is geared to helping the better offensive team and both Wisconsin and Michigan are better defensively. They are disadvantaged the moment the OT starts.

In comment 13240877 Patrick77 said:

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I agree it is stupid but this head to head stuff gets ridiculous. Iowa beat Michigan, NDSU beat Iowa. Iowa lost to multiple unranked teams but beat Michigan. That loss hasn't seemed to afffect them much at all. Michigan, PSU and Wisconsin all have 2 losses. Michigan beat Wisconsin by 7 and killed PSU.

You are not wrong it some of your posts and I agree with a lot of it.

But lets look at a possible situation. Washington loses.

Michigan
Penn St

They both have two losses.
Michigan beat Penn State by 40
Michigan has 3 wins against top 10 teams, Penn State has 2.
Both teams have losses against a top 10 team.
Both teams have losses by a FG or less on the road.

You're saying Penn State still deserves it over Michigan? Maybe. But my point is that because the conference system is broken, Michigan has a case as well.

(and let it be known, that any other year, I would not argue Michigan belongs, this is an outliner of a year.)

I forgot to add. I only use head to head when it involved the teams involved. If team A beat teams B & C - Teams A should get some clout for it.

I don't want PSU to even sniff a possibility of the playoffs.

purely from the standpoint that they would be the champions. The outrage might actually fix their broken system. Championships should count for something, otherwise why have them?

If Wisconsin wins that is a way easier argument. In my mind Wisconsin, Michigan, and Ohio State are all roughly on the same level. I believe that PSU is just a step below them.

BUT...

Michigan's loss to Iowa should be a pretty big hit that no one talks about ever. PSU barely losing to the 25th ranked Pitt - who also beat Clemson and lost close games to ranked teams is a much better loss to be carrying around than barely losing a game to Iowa - whose only quality win outside of Michigan is beating Nebraska.There is talk that Oklahoma's bogus loss to CMU (fired officiating crew) is affecting their ranking - which is crazy to consider. If quality wins mean something, losses to unranked or outright bad teams should also mean something IMO.

The reason an 8 team format would work so much better is you could have 4-6 champions and some of the wild cards would be teams like Michigan. I don't think anyone believes Michigan isn't deserving of being ranked somewhere between 4-8 right now.

and thats why there's a lot of controversy. Normally a big 10 champion is a shoe-in, but I just think there can be both sides with legitimate claims.

Penn State wins the title
Michigan beat them by 40.

I actually think Wisconsin's resume is the worst of the 3. (Sorry Jon and badger fans) and believe they should have ZERO shot being in the final 4. They dont even have a top 20 win.

I am not saying this as a Michigan fan, but I believe the ratings right now arent going to change the needle for this weekend unless Washington or Clemson lose. In regards to the final 4, the Big 10 championship game is meaningless. I think the winner of that game is playing for a rose bowl bid, and thats it.

Just think of this.....Its a possibility (if Florida beats Alabama).

The winners of the Big 10, Big 12, Pac 10, and SEC will not represent one of the 4 teams in the final 4. Since Bama, OSU, Clemson, and Michigan will probably be the final 4.

and the Big Ten champion, whoever that might be, didn't. It would either lead so changes in the Big Ten division structure, or the playoff system as a whole. The Power 5 conferences aren't going to support a system that renders conference champions meaningless.

In comment 13241034 Bramton1 said:

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and the Big Ten champion, whoever that might be, didn't. It would either lead so changes in the Big Ten division structure, or the playoff system as a whole. The Power 5 conferences aren't going to support a system that renders conference champions meaningless.

And to be honest, that is a very, very good thing. Its criminal that you have a conference championship where teams dont play everyone. Never, ever should have expanded to 14. they dont play 4 teams in the big 10!

In comment 13241034 Bramton1 said:

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and the Big Ten champion, whoever that might be, didn't. It would either lead so changes in the Big Ten division structure, or the playoff system as a whole. The Power 5 conferences aren't going to support a system that renders conference champions meaningless.

I was about to say that this year is an outlier, but Ohio State, Michigan and PSU look like they will be the 3 top teams in the B1G for at least the next few years. And if Michigan State bounces back from this snake bitten year the #4 team in the B1G East will be playing at the same level as the 2 top schools (Wisconsin, Nebraska) in the B1G West. Not sure how they solve this.

the Massey Composite ratings (aggregate of 120 computer models, including both polls), has it as follows:

1. Alabama
2. Ohio State
3. Clemson
4. Michigan
5. Washington
6. Wisconsin
7. Colorado
8. Penn State
9. USC
10. Oklahoma
http://www.masseyratings.com/cf/compare.htm - ( New Window )

wins, dont be surprised if Michigan jumps them anyways. They really need a decisive victory to stay 4 IMO.

In comment 13241056 dep026 said:

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wins, dont be surprised if Michigan jumps them anyways. They really need a decisive victory to stay 4 IMO.

Really? That's a pretty hard sell IMO. Michigan moves up rankings by not playing and Washington moves down by winning (albeit poorly)?

That would be outrageous.

My bias against Michigan is open but I hate Ohio State, Ped U, and Clemson just as much so I think that makes me more level headed on this. I can't see a way Michigan jumps up based on Washington winning.

It would be awesome to see Washigton, Alabama, and Clemson lose this weekend though, that would create a massive clusterfuck.

Doesn't win games against the big boys.

In comment 13241079 Patrick77 said:

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In comment 13241056 dep026 said: Quote: wins, dont be surprised if Michigan jumps them anyways. They really need a decisive victory to stay 4 IMO. Really? That's a pretty hard sell IMO. Michigan moves up rankings by not playing and Washington moves down by winning (albeit poorly)? That would be outrageous.

Would anything really shock you?

In comment 13241079 Patrick77 said:

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In comment 13241056 dep026 said: Quote: wins, dont be surprised if Michigan jumps them anyways. They really need a decisive victory to stay 4 IMO. Really? That's a pretty hard sell IMO. Michigan moves up rankings by not playing and Washington moves down by winning (albeit poorly)? That would be outrageous. My bias against Michigan is open but I hate Ohio State, Ped U, and Clemson just as much so I think that makes me more level headed on this. I can't see a way Michigan jumps up based on Washington winning. It would be awesome to see Washigton, Alabama, and Clemson lose this weekend though, that would create a massive clusterfuck.

Washington is not a member of the "club". If USC was in their position they'd be a lock with a win, with a win by 1 point. As I said in my 8:41, I think Washington needs a win by 10 or more to assure themselves a playoff berth.

In comment 13241056 dep026 said:

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wins, dont be surprised if Michigan jumps them anyways. They really need a decisive victory to stay 4 IMO.

I don't think that happens. I can't see Michigan as a two loss team jumping a one loss team in the rankings.

Colorado has a very good shot of beating Washington.

Let's say Michigan had beaten OSU and then lost to Wisconsin. What would have happened then? Does OSU then get in? OSU benefits from not playing in the title game.

Any way you look at it the playoff system, combined with unbalanced schedules and conference championships, is a mess. It needs to be 8 teams.

"I don't want to be un-American," one bowl official said, "but nearly everyone in the bowl industry, quite frankly, is rooting against Navy."
Navy---Blowin' $hit Up - ( New Window )

More recently, Michigan lost to a team that Penn State beat by 27 points.

I just can't fathom how a team that lost two of its last three games should be in the playoffs.

In comment 13241552 Bramton1 said:

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More recently, Michigan lost to a team that Penn State beat by 27 points. I just can't fathom how a team that lost two of its last three games should be in the playoffs.

1. Because all games count.
2. Because the team penn state is competing with for the possible final spot.... beat them by FORTY.

Sorry, they shouldn't even have a football team. Let's go Badgers, please take them out and end this discussion once and for all.

Also lol @ Penn State being the 4th best team in the country when they're the 3rd best in their conference.