condemning all tank jobs 100 games into KAT's career.
the problem for the wolves was this was not supposed to be a tank year, they were supposed to take the next step, and they have failed miserably so far...
condemning all tank jobs 100 games into KAT's career.
the problem for the wolves was this was not supposed to be a tank year, they were supposed to take the next step, and they have failed miserably so far...
Ironically I think this is 100% what Deej was referring to lol
condemning all tank jobs 100 games into KAT's career.
the problem for the wolves was this was not supposed to be a tank year, they were supposed to take the next step, and they have failed miserably so far...
Here is an article written by Chris Herring on the Wolves that documents 3rd quarter troubles for the Wolves:
Not making excuses and not defending Thibs (I got you dep) but its not like the Wolves havent been capable of playing great basketball. They just fail to do so consistently throughout the game.
Ive never been a fan of Rubio and I'm losing my faith in Gorgui Dieng, especially as Towns should be a full time center but he's not seasoned as a rim protector yet (but what second year center is?).
Like you said, the Wolves are done tanking, but they haven't exactly gotten the veteran leadership to transition them to the next phase. I hardly consider Rubio or Aldrich part of the solution.
there's an amnesty clause in the new CBA. I didn't think Noah would be THIS bad.
there hasn't been much reported on the changes to the CBA but I think it was Windhorst who said he was hearing there probably would NOT be an amnesty clause.
there's an amnesty clause in the new CBA. I didn't think Noah would be THIS bad.
there hasn't been much reported on the changes to the CBA but I think it was Windhorst who said he was hearing there probably would NOT be an amnesty clause.
That's a shame. Why is that? Don't amnestied player still get paid in full?
And taking bad shots at that. He's really annoying to watch half the time.
Has it really gotten to the point where people are complaining about Melo taking away shots from a rookie who has been shooting 39% for the year? Christ.
dieng literally just grabbed kps arm and pulled him back
And taking bad shots at that. He's really annoying to watch half the time.
Has it really gotten to the point where people are complaining about Melo taking away shots from a rookie who has been shooting 39% for the year? Christ.
and all I see is sloppy ball handling and a shoot first attitude. LOL, Horny calling that TO and Rose pleading for him not to do it was just the icing. Rose doesn't know how to run point if he isn't dominating the ball.
RE: Everyone tells me how Rose has been great and then I watch the games
and all I see is sloppy ball handling and a shoot first attitude. LOL, Horny calling that TO and Rose pleading for him not to do it was just the icing. Rose doesn't know how to run point if he isn't dominating the ball.
When he gets in a groove he looks dominating. I know what you're saying though. He can look bad at times for sure.
and all I see is sloppy ball handling and a shoot first attitude. LOL, Horny calling that TO and Rose pleading for him not to do it was just the icing. Rose doesn't know how to run point if he isn't dominating the ball.
wait so you dont watch every game but are going to make a definitive statment off of one game? makes sense
he has not played well tonight but he has played well this season
and all I see is sloppy ball handling and a shoot first attitude. LOL, Horny calling that TO and Rose pleading for him not to do it was just the icing. Rose doesn't know how to run point if he isn't dominating the ball.
wait so you dont watch every game but are going to make a definitive statment off of one game? makes sense
he has not played well tonight but he has played well this season
Fuck off and read what I wrote. And then point to where I said I didn't watch games.
Is that his final shot was immediately following a timeout, and thus Hornacek drew up the play to get Melo the final shot despite his shooting. Yet if Melo had missed it, we'd be giving him crap for Iso Melo.
But Melo has to learn it is not about getting his shot to fall. This is Porzingas' team. Melo and Rose both need to check their egos and acknowledge that.
RE: The ironic thing about everyone blaming Melo at the end
Is that his final shot was immediately following a timeout, and thus Hornacek drew up the play to get Melo the final shot despite his shooting. Yet if Melo had missed it, we'd be giving him crap for Iso Melo.
If Melo never left the bench this game wouldn't have been close.
really not fair, amd we wonder why no superstar wants to come here
Oh give me a break, what games are you watching? I've been his biggest support for a long time. He's not going to change even though he's half the player he used to be. Learn to adapt to winning basketball and I'll support him again. Right now he's just a selfish player. Perfectly fair.
and everyone blaming melo for killing the ball movement
If Melo never left the bench this game wouldn't have been close.
really not fair, amd we wonder why no superstar wants to come here
Oh give me a break, what games are you watching? I've been his biggest support for a long time. He's not going to change even though he's half the player he used to be. Learn to adapt to winning basketball and I'll support him again. Right now he's just a selfish player. Perfectly fair.
but reread what you wrote, you made it sound like you dont watch every game...
my mistake
No problem. Sorry myself, I was frustrated watching that lead dwindle.
My point went Rose has never differ even when he has a good shooting night. Rose's game is dominating the ball until he gets going. For this team and this offense that's not something that will work on a consistent basis.
RE: can we stop blaming melo for absolutely everything
but reread what you wrote, you made it sound like you dont watch every game...
my mistake
No problem. Sorry myself, I was frustrated watching that lead dwindle.
My point went Rose has never differ even when he has a good shooting night. Rose's game is dominating the ball until he gets going. For this team and this offense that's not something that will work on a consistent basis.
me myself i think he is still adjusting, remember he is used to being the ball dominant player and only scoring option..
so tell me again how he ball hogged tonight and was selfish?
My god, if you want to ride this train then more power to you. I'm not going toe to toe with you all night. I know what he is. It's not just one quarter. It's not just one game. You can ride his jock if you want. Have at it.
Look at his defense. Give him a pass trying to adjust his offense, fine, but the defensive effort is a joke. Pathetic. As was his "rebounding" when we needed boards late in that game. Effort should never slump.
Rose was terrible. I'm glad hornacek is willing to sit guys if it's not working. Jennings had control. Good minutes from the whole bench.
He's horrible right now. It's okay to say that. He isn't an asset on the defensive side of the floor. When his shot isn't falling. He's a liability. Like I said earlier, he needs to reinvent his game for when he is cold.
Haha, was ready to come on and berate Melo. Thank god for
the last second heroics. Before that bucket, he did miss two shots down the stretch and then nonchalantly go after the rebound only to have it taken away.
KAT is ridiculous. NBA has a couple of super young frontcourt studs.
KAT, Greek Freak, KP, Embiid, and Simmons when he comes back. Assuming Embiid stays healthy, who would you take?
RE: Forget offense, we score 105 in spite of melo.
Look at his defense. Give him a pass trying to adjust his offense, fine, but the defensive effort is a joke. Pathetic. As was his "rebounding" when we needed boards late in that game. Effort should never slump.
Rose was terrible. I'm glad hornacek is willing to sit guys if it's not working. Jennings had control. Good minutes from the whole bench.
Exactly. His effort and D are always suspect too, even when his O is hot.
Trying to play Melo at the 3 is always going to result
And as for your future telling abilities, it's funny that you find it so easy to tell people how they will root in the future as if Melo and KP are the same person or that you have any clue to what you are talking about.
KP and Melo couldn't be any different. But, yeah, if KP develops into a selfish, me-first player that hinders the team...then yeah, fans will probably get on him too. Me thinks that won't happen though.
So that last play wasn't really planned to be a melo shot.
It's not melo too slow to stick with quicker guys. It's his effort. The dude has no dog in his game and quits on defense.
No, it's actually a fact that he cannot athletically hang with small forwards. That part of his career is over. 4 is his best position and has been since like 2011.
Like I said earlier, he needs to reinvent his game for when he is cold.
He attempted 5 shots total in the first half. It's not like he was out there chucking it and killing the offense.
It's not just his offense that's killing. You're right. he was better tonight about not going ISO every time and chucking it up as the shot clock diminishes. But, he didn't take great shots when he attempted them and his effort on D is inconsistent which kills the momentum we could potentially build. You never know if he's going to attack the ball or not.
It doesn't matter what position he's at. Can't have success
And as for your future telling abilities, it's funny that you find it so easy to tell people how they will root in the future as if Melo and KP are the same person or that you have any clue to what you are talking about.
KP and Melo couldn't be any different. But, yeah, if KP develops into a selfish, me-first player that hinders the team...then yeah, fans will probably get on him too. Me thinks that won't happen though.
do you realize knicks fans killed ewing?
it comes with the territory in new york, every star gets blamed for everything and when they win they get none of the credit..
look at eli as a perfect example, is he a selfish player? no yet he gets ripped after every game win ot lose...
ot is not just melo, there is a reason why no star wants to come to new york
RE: It doesn't matter what position he's at. Can't have success
And you can see the effect of his inconsistency at times. He'll actually go for a rebound and then he bumps into his teammate who assumes he's just going to stand around doing nothing.
RE: So that last play wasn't really planned to be a melo shot.
Hornacek thought they'd double melo which would get us an open shot. They didn't double(why would they).
You mean coaches run plays that have multiple options? That can't be true. And even then - despite Melo's shooting, Hornacek still expected a Melo double team, and when there wasn't the ball still went to him.
RE: RE: What the hell do you expect KP to say? That he thinks the vets are
And as for your future telling abilities, it's funny that you find it so easy to tell people how they will root in the future as if Melo and KP are the same person or that you have any clue to what you are talking about.
KP and Melo couldn't be any different. But, yeah, if KP develops into a selfish, me-first player that hinders the team...then yeah, fans will probably get on him too. Me thinks that won't happen though.
do you realize knicks fans killed ewing?
it comes with the territory in new york, every star gets blamed for everything and when they win they get none of the credit..
look at eli as a perfect example, is he a selfish player? no yet he gets ripped after every game win ot lose...
ot is not just melo, there is a reason why no star wants to come to new york
The difference between Melo and Eli is that the media loves Melo's game and hates Eli's game, while the fans hate Melo's game and love Eli's game.
And as for your future telling abilities, it's funny that you find it so easy to tell people how they will root in the future as if Melo and KP are the same person or that you have any clue to what you are talking about.
KP and Melo couldn't be any different. But, yeah, if KP develops into a selfish, me-first player that hinders the team...then yeah, fans will probably get on him too. Me thinks that won't happen though.
do you realize knicks fans killed ewing?
it comes with the territory in new york, every star gets blamed for everything and when they win they get none of the credit..
look at eli as a perfect example, is he a selfish player? no yet he gets ripped after every game win ot lose...
ot is not just melo, there is a reason why no star wants to come to new york
The difference between Melo and Eli is that the media loves Melo's game and hates Eli's game, while the fans hate Melo's game and love Eli's game.
I get the point you are trying to make, but just because it happens too often, doesn't mean it's never warranted. Find me 1 second of tape on Ewing where he didn't give 110% effort. Ewing got killed(mostly because he was a dick) and he didn't deserve it. Has nothing to do with melo. Not a thing.
I get the point you are trying to make, but just because it happens too often, doesn't mean it's never warranted. Find me 1 second of tape on Ewing where he didn't give 110% effort. Ewing got killed(mostly because he was a dick) and he didn't deserve it. Has nothing to do with melo. Not a thing.
it happens to every single star player in new york, i am jusy sick of it..
did melo play well tonight? absolutely not, has he played well these past couple of weeks? no he hasnt but fans have want to run him out of town since linsanity..
player? And I knew you were bring up Ewing too. Ewing was a great player. He was also a grumpy old curmudgeon that made it easy to get on. Melo didn't exactly have the best reputation either before he got here. And he also doesn't help himself either.
Yes, I agree that it comes with the territory here in NY to some degree. But it's also the player. Eli is a different issue. That shit boggles my mind. My issue with Melo is that he could be such an amazing player if he didn't still believe that he's on the same level as Lebron. He can adapt and change and really take this team to the next level. I just don't think he will ever do that. Sure, he's going to have his good stretches, but he'll never change in my opinion.
16, Because he's lazy. Fans want him out because he's not the same
offensive player he used to be. You can deal with the bad defense and selfish play when he's dominating on offense. Now that he's not dominating, he's killing us because he is a negative in every other aspect of the game.
Before the game winner. An open 3 off a Jennings PnR that he airballed, and an elbow jumper - basically his bread and butter shot. He's in a shooting slump - it happens.
People give Melo shit for Iso-ing all the time, but there's a reason that it's been consistent throughout various coaches over the past 6 years. He's one of the best in the NBA at creating his own shot. Give him an inch and he'll hit the shot with a lot of consistency.
Go look at an interview with Paul Pierce from a few years ago where he named the toughest players he ever had to guard. Read the blurb on Melo. Knicks fans take what he brings to the team for granted.
And DESPITE EVERYTHING, Melo came into the game KNOWING that his shot was off. Throughout the entire 1st half, both Breen and Clyde were talking about how Melo wasn't even looking for his shot, and just trying to pass. The dude can't win.
RE: 16, Because he's lazy. Fans want him out because he's not the same
offensive player he used to be. You can deal with the bad defense and selfish play when he's dominating on offense. Now that he's not dominating, he's killing us because he is a negative in every other aspect of the game.
it is not just about this year, every single year fans wanted to get rid of him, after the 54 win season people wanted to get rid of him...
i am done, i get why people are frustrated with him this year, i guess my fristration is with everyone trying to run him out of town every year he has been here...
Before the game winner. An open 3 off a Jennings PnR that he airballed, and an elbow jumper - basically his bread and butter shot. He's in a shooting slump - it happens.
People give Melo shit for Iso-ing all the time, but there's a reason that it's been consistent throughout various coaches over the past 6 years. He's one of the best in the NBA at creating his own shot. Give him an inch and he'll hit the shot with a lot of consistency.
Go look at an interview with Paul Pierce from a few years ago where he named the toughest players he ever had to guard. Read the blurb on Melo. Knicks fans take what he brings to the team for granted.
And DESPITE EVERYTHING, Melo came into the game KNOWING that his shot was off. Throughout the entire 1st half, both Breen and Clyde were talking about how Melo wasn't even looking for his shot, and just trying to pass. The dude can't win.
Because of how 1 dimensional he is, that's true. If he can't shoot, he's worthless.
Ugh, I would give so much for Noah to be off the team
Before the game winner. An open 3 off a Jennings PnR that he airballed, and an elbow jumper - basically his bread and butter shot. He's in a shooting slump - it happens.
People give Melo shit for Iso-ing all the time, but there's a reason that it's been consistent throughout various coaches over the past 6 years. He's one of the best in the NBA at creating his own shot. Give him an inch and he'll hit the shot with a lot of consistency.
Go look at an interview with Paul Pierce from a few years ago where he named the toughest players he ever had to guard. Read the blurb on Melo. Knicks fans take what he brings to the team for granted.
And DESPITE EVERYTHING, Melo came into the game KNOWING that his shot was off. Throughout the entire 1st half, both Breen and Clyde were talking about how Melo wasn't even looking for his shot, and just trying to pass. The dude can't win.
Because of how 1 dimensional he is, that's true. If he can't shoot, he's worthless.
Yes, last year when he had career highs in rebounds and assists and played some of the best defense of his career, he proved his monodimensionality. I'll give you that his defense has been shit this year, but you can say that with everyone on the team this year. Rose has gotten better on D, Holiday has been great on that side, and Jennings has proved to be quite pesky at times (bringing back memories of Prigioni). Everyone else has been dogshit.
And this "effort" argument isn't even worth addressing.
RE: Ugh, I would give so much for Noah to be off the team
If you really believe Porzingis should be a fulltime 5 at this point in his career, you should stick to NFL mock drafts. Playing the 5 isn't predicated upon purely a player's height. God knows what your advice for Nowitzki would have been his first few years in the league.
RE: RE: Ugh, I would give so much for Noah to be off the team
If you really believe Porzingis should be a fulltime 5 at this point in his career, you should stick to NFL mock drafts. Playing the 5 isn't predicated upon purely a player's height. God knows what your advice for Nowitzki would have been his first few years in the league.
Lmao.. true. KP isn't ready for the fulltime 5 role just yet. Noahs contract is an abysmal. But right now KP needs to lean on him for veteran leadership. Can't have KP out there banging with 5's every night.
RE: RE: RE: And then look at the previous 2 Melo shots
Before the game winner. An open 3 off a Jennings PnR that he airballed, and an elbow jumper - basically his bread and butter shot. He's in a shooting slump - it happens.
People give Melo shit for Iso-ing all the time, but there's a reason that it's been consistent throughout various coaches over the past 6 years. He's one of the best in the NBA at creating his own shot. Give him an inch and he'll hit the shot with a lot of consistency.
Go look at an interview with Paul Pierce from a few years ago where he named the toughest players he ever had to guard. Read the blurb on Melo. Knicks fans take what he brings to the team for granted.
And DESPITE EVERYTHING, Melo came into the game KNOWING that his shot was off. Throughout the entire 1st half, both Breen and Clyde were talking about how Melo wasn't even looking for his shot, and just trying to pass. The dude can't win.
Because of how 1 dimensional he is, that's true. If he can't shoot, he's worthless.
Yes, last year when he had career highs in rebounds and assists and played some of the best defense of his career, he proved his monodimensionality. I'll give you that his defense has been shit this year, but you can say that with everyone on the team this year. Rose has gotten better on D, Holiday has been great on that side, and Jennings has proved to be quite pesky at times (bringing back memories of Prigioni). Everyone else has been dogshit.
And this "effort" argument isn't even worth addressing.
He didn't have career high rebounds last year. He did assists tho. I didn't know a personal best qualified as relevant to a players relative strengths within the league tho...
This year his assist% is slightly below his career average. Rebounds% is around career average. So, this is really Melo's game apparently. If you want to look numbers.
RE: RE: RE: Ugh, I would give so much for Noah to be off the team
If you really believe Porzingis should be a fulltime 5 at this point in his career, you should stick to NFL mock drafts. Playing the 5 isn't predicated upon purely a player's height. God knows what your advice for Nowitzki would have been his first few years in the league.
Lmao.. true. KP isn't ready for the fulltime 5 role just yet. Noahs contract is an abysmal. But right now KP needs to lean on him for veteran leadership. Can't have KP out there banging with 5's every night.
Honestly, my main beef with the Noah contract is length, not salary. In a period where Mozgov and Mahinmi each got 16/yr, I'd gladly pay 18/yr for Noah. Just not for 4 years.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Ugh, I would give so much for Noah to be off the team
If you really believe Porzingis should be a fulltime 5 at this point in his career, you should stick to NFL mock drafts. Playing the 5 isn't predicated upon purely a player's height. God knows what your advice for Nowitzki would have been his first few years in the league.
Lmao.. true. KP isn't ready for the fulltime 5 role just yet. Noahs contract is an abysmal. But right now KP needs to lean on him for veteran leadership. Can't have KP out there banging with 5's every night.
Honestly, my main beef with the Noah contract is length, not salary. In a period where Mozgov and Mahinmi each got 16/yr, I'd gladly pay 18/yr for Noah. Just not for 4 years.
Especially if he's going to be riding the bench in between periods of mediocre play.
will be the contract. You can't fault him for anything else. Yes, he's a black hole on offense. But he brings veteran leadership, has played in the big games, and can mentor KP.
He can makes this Knicks team tough. But... his injury history is already not looking good so far this year. He's constantly out, his minutes are limited, and it looks like Plumlee, KP and HernanGomez look to be suitable.
RE: RE: RE: RE: And then look at the previous 2 Melo shots
Before the game winner. An open 3 off a Jennings PnR that he airballed, and an elbow jumper - basically his bread and butter shot. He's in a shooting slump - it happens.
People give Melo shit for Iso-ing all the time, but there's a reason that it's been consistent throughout various coaches over the past 6 years. He's one of the best in the NBA at creating his own shot. Give him an inch and he'll hit the shot with a lot of consistency.
Go look at an interview with Paul Pierce from a few years ago where he named the toughest players he ever had to guard. Read the blurb on Melo. Knicks fans take what he brings to the team for granted.
And DESPITE EVERYTHING, Melo came into the game KNOWING that his shot was off. Throughout the entire 1st half, both Breen and Clyde were talking about how Melo wasn't even looking for his shot, and just trying to pass. The dude can't win.
Because of how 1 dimensional he is, that's true. If he can't shoot, he's worthless.
Yes, last year when he had career highs in rebounds and assists and played some of the best defense of his career, he proved his monodimensionality. I'll give you that his defense has been shit this year, but you can say that with everyone on the team this year. Rose has gotten better on D, Holiday has been great on that side, and Jennings has proved to be quite pesky at times (bringing back memories of Prigioni). Everyone else has been dogshit.
And this "effort" argument isn't even worth addressing.
He didn't have career high rebounds last year. He did assists tho. I didn't know a personal best qualified as relevant to a players relative strengths within the league tho...
This year his assist% is slightly below his career average. Rebounds% is around career average. So, this is really Melo's game apparently. If you want to look numbers.
Apologies, his 2nd highest rebounding numbers of his career, behind 13-14 when he had to fill in at the 4 most of the time to compensate for injuries to Chandler and Bargnani.
And his assist % percentage is down slightly from his career average, the same year that the Knicks brought in 2 PGs in the offseason? Nothing more than a coincidence. Melo doesn't adapt, remember?
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: And then look at the previous 2 Melo shots
Apologies, his 2nd highest rebounding numbers of his career, behind 13-14 when he had to fill in at the 4 most of the time to compensate for injuries to Chandler and Bargnani.
And his assist % percentage is down slightly from his career average, the same year that the Knicks brought in 2 PGs in the offseason? Nothing more than a coincidence. Melo doesn't adapt, remember?
You ignored my point, which was that this is career average for him, by the numbers. I wasn't dogging his as%
knicks really should win their next 3, twolves, kings and heat...
get a couple of games above 500
Outside Cleveland/Toronto it looks like every other spot is up for grabs. I don't think Boston is anything special unless they get a legit center by mid season.
I thought th east would be a lot better this season
But I think the shitty teams in the east made some strides while the top teams didn't really change much. I think it is stronger but it won't be evidenced in W/L records because all the teams are about as good as each other. Still a ways to go to matchup to the top of the west.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: And then look at the previous 2 Melo shots
Apologies, his 2nd highest rebounding numbers of his career, behind 13-14 when he had to fill in at the 4 most of the time to compensate for injuries to Chandler and Bargnani.
And his assist % percentage is down slightly from his career average, the same year that the Knicks brought in 2 PGs in the offseason? Nothing more than a coincidence. Melo doesn't adapt, remember?
You ignored my point, which was that this is career average for him, by the numbers. I wasn't dogging his as%
I'm not sure what your point is, so if I ignored it - oops? Melo is never going to be a Lebron type playmaker. He's a phenomenal scorer, a great passer and a good rebounder. But his assist numbers will never increase dramatically, because his vision and passing is usually a product of how he's getting the ball on offense. Think more hockey assists than anything. And look at the game that Rose hit the game winner - Melo grabbing rebounds at the end basically made it happen. People say he's selfish, but he always does what he needs to do to help the team within the primary scorer mentality.
we're now in December and the #8 seed in the playoffs if
I don't think we're far off anyone's projections among Knicks fans who saw us as an in-the-playoffs-but-not-by-much team.
Can't tell you guys what to do, but a lot of vitriol spilled here among fans who should be pulling on the same rope.
I'm liking Hornacek as coach, and I think several of Phil's moves as GM have paid off. Players like Melo, Noah, Rose - they are not going to get either brain or body transplants, so don't engage in wishful thinking.
It's an interesting mix of young and old, US and international - that's what we've got, along with a likely low-seed playoff team.
Beats last year IMO ...
Thank you for putting Rose on the bench coach Hornacek.
Rose has been playing well this season but he was struggling in the fourth last night. Nothing wrong with taken the ball out of his hands..
"kid, you don't have it tonight". Should of done the same with Melo on Saturday.
KAT was amazing last night. Just an absolutely beastly performance
of the Dantoni era where every once in a while they would steal a win due to hitting a bunch of threes. I didn't come away from that game thinking they played all that well.
of the Dantoni era where every once in a while they would steal a win due to hitting a bunch of threes. I didn't come away from that game thinking they played all that well.
You are correct, but stealing a win on the road from a western conference team is always huge.
Its absolutely amazing that the TWolves are going to be in the lottery again. They need to trade Rubio ASAP. And hope they can land a Ball or Fox in the draft.
of the Dantoni era where every once in a while they would steal a win due to hitting a bunch of threes. I didn't come away from that game thinking they played all that well.
On the other hand, we've also lost some games this year due to aberrant 3 point shooting by opponents. Washington beat us by 7 shooting 15-25 from 3 (60%). If instead they had shot an insane 48%, they would have 9 less points and we could have won. If they had shot their season average 34.1% (even including our game), they might have scored 18 fewer points. Similarly, Detroit beat us by 13, shooting 8-13 from 3. If they had shot their season average 33.3%, it would have been a very close game.
of the Dantoni era where every once in a while they would steal a win due to hitting a bunch of threes. I didn't come away from that game thinking they played all that well.
You are correct, but stealing a win on the road from a western conference team is always huge.
Its absolutely amazing that the TWolves are going to be in the lottery again. They need to trade Rubio ASAP. And hope they can land a Ball or Fox in the draft.
Im really not so amazed. Learning to win is part of the development curve. Knicks of the past several years have been in a lot of games and then the veteran good teams pull away in the last 2 minutes because they have been there, done that. Minny's Expected W-L per BBR is 8-10; I dont think the discrepancy is them being unlucky, I think it is inexperience in closing out.
It's also early for them and they have a new coach. They could get very hot (they have the talent). It's a very tough draw to get to they playoffs from 5-13, but I think there is a good shot that the 8th seed in the west is a few games under 500. If Portland falters/see injuries, it's a bunch of 7-11 or worse teams and the Lakers, who I dont buy as a 41 win squad.
Im curious to know, of the people now taking a dump on Melo, Rose, or Noah, whether any of them supported adding Rose and Noah this offseason to "compete" during "Melo's window".
Because Im not as down on that trio as some, but it was clear to me that there were huge age/injury risks and no championship upside, so I advocated a sell off instead of acquisitions.
the Wolves have a ton of work to do as far as filling out the rest of their roster with legit NBA rotation pieces.
They are probably regretting the contract to Dieng right now. 16 million a year for a 4th option is steep plus he has not been as good defensively this year. I think eventually they are going to have to choose between Wiggins or Lavine as who to keep.
Is maybe we can get a young star to bite on Rose's salary slot next year cause that player would have KP to team up with for years to come.
knicks do not have the cap space even if they let rose go, it is part of the reason i think knicks sign him to a 3 year deal and then noah, lee, rose and melo all expire same time and hopefully someone says i want to play with kp
wiggins did nothing except for hitting a couple of open shots, his d was good on melo but nothing crazy..
lavine did nothing, he is all flair with no substance..
rubio looks shot, looks like he doesnt care..
dunn looks dreadful
i really hope thibs does not run towns into the ground
Dunn was suppose to NBA-ready, however having him sit behind Rubio has really slowed his progress down. I always felt Lavine would be a better PG than a SG, however he falls in love with the 3 point shot and forces it when he doesnt get attempts.
If they continue to lose, they have to trade Rubio. Well they should trade him anyways. However the protoypical PG that rubio is dying in the NBA. He cant shoot and doesnt have the speed to get to the basket or the foul line. I dont see where he fits on an NBA roster. I felt Philly was a good spot, but when Simmonds returns, he is going to be ball dominate. The Twolves were suppose to turn the corner and at this point, they have actually regressed.
just trolled the FUCK out of Michael Jordan (assuming this is real)
Yup that was real.
It's sometimes hard to remember that Thomas was an IU grad. All his accomplishments came decades before I was even born, let alone went to IU. Caused so much misery for me as a Knicks fan and I didn't get to enjoy any of his success as an IU fan. Woe is me.
Is maybe we can get a young star to bite on Rose's salary slot next year cause that player would have KP to team up with for years to come.
knicks do not have the cap space even if they let rose go, it is part of the reason i think knicks sign him to a 3 year deal and then noah, lee, rose and melo all expire same time and hopefully someone says i want to play with kp
Im not advocating that, but if that goes down (note Melo expires a year earlier), the best FAs in 2020 will be the players from the 2012 draft who have opt outs, and the ones from the 2011 draft who dont.
2012ers: Davis and Lilliard have no opt outs, Drummond and Draymond do so they will be FAs.
2011ers: Basically all the good ones come free a year earlier (Butler, Kawhi, Klay, Kyrie, Kemba, Baby Zeke (2018). Reggie Jackson comes free in 2020; but note that he came in a little older than most, so his next deal will mostly cover his early 30s.
My roommate from college and I once took a tour of the turner sports/NBA studio a few years back. We are walking out of the studio as two men were walking in. One turned and said "hi" and I said "hi" back, not giving so much as a quick glance. After they walk by my roommate was like "I'm pretty sure that was Isiah Thomas that said hi to you and the other guy was Dominique Wilkins".
free agents has proven to be a dicey approach. So far Phil and all of his rings hasn't even been able to get meetings with the top tier guys, let alone sign them.
RE: RE: without towns i was not impressed with the wolves
wiggins did nothing except for hitting a couple of open shots, his d was good on melo but nothing crazy..
lavine did nothing, he is all flair with no substance..
rubio looks shot, looks like he doesnt care..
dunn looks dreadful
i really hope thibs does not run towns into the ground
Dunn was suppose to NBA-ready, however having him sit behind Rubio has really slowed his progress down. I always felt Lavine would be a better PG than a SG, however he falls in love with the 3 point shot and forces it when he doesnt get attempts.
If they continue to lose, they have to trade Rubio. Well they should trade him anyways. However the protoypical PG that rubio is dying in the NBA. He cant shoot and doesnt have the speed to get to the basket or the foul line. I dont see where he fits on an NBA roster. I felt Philly was a good spot, but when Simmonds returns, he is going to be ball dominate. The Twolves were suppose to turn the corner and at this point, they have actually regressed.
I personally thought Dunn was very raw for a junior in college. He has upside but I think he fits better as a good bench guard. But so does Rubio.
I kind of disagree with them having to choose between Wiggins and Lavine. I don't think Wiggins is suited as a ball dominant player. He's still a poor dribbler and looks to jack up step backs/fadeways instead of playing within an offense. I think he can be very, very good if he stays off the ball.
Despite all of Lavines 3 point jacking he's still shooting 37% on 6.5 3s a game. Nothing impressive but there are games he can win you when he's hot. He's very streaky but he's about a pure shooter as you'll see in basketball.
Wolves will need to make a trade one way or another. Something like Dunn/Dieng for Noel. The future starting PG for this wolves team is currently not on the roster IMO.
free agents has proven to be a dicey approach. So far Phil and all of his rings hasn't even been able to get meetings with the top tier guys, let alone sign them.
Such as who? Who were all these top guys that we couldn't get a meeting with? Only one I can think of is Aldridge and we made it clear that we wanted him at the 5 and if not, let's not waste time. Please list.
Whether you like the contracts or not and whether you would have gone in a different direction or not, he signed a few guys that were sought after elsewhere and were being offered more elsewhere. Noah, Jennings and Lee.
free agents has proven to be a dicey approach. So far Phil and all of his rings hasn't even been able to get meetings with the top tier guys, let alone sign them.
Key point. Whereas I believe that in a few years, KP + a few high picks + the Melo return would have had us either in the convo with FAs or in a position to make a trade for someone.
Give KP a lead guard (say a Wall, who I think is dying to leave), plus say Noel when he becomes a free agent and 3&Ds at the wing slots (trying to be realistic) and you have a title competitive team I think.
Whether you like the contracts or not and whether you would have gone in a different direction or not, he signed a few guys that were sought after elsewhere and were being offered more elsewhere. Noah, Jennings and Lee.
Jennings I believe said he got no other offers. Not sure that anyone was offering Noah materially more. Lee is a depth starter.
free agents has proven to be a dicey approach. So far Phil and all of his rings hasn't even been able to get meetings with the top tier guys, let alone sign them.
Such as who? Who were all these top guys that we couldn't get a meeting with? Only one I can think of is Aldridge and we made it clear that we wanted him at the 5 and if not, let's not waste time. Please list.
LMA, Horford, Durant. Durant was taking meetings IN NEW YORK and Phil couldn't even get in to see him. And then you had Mills trying to spin it after the fact. It's pathetic. Of the top guys who've been free agents, have any of them even considered the Knicks? Deandre is the only one I can think of where it was even mentioned that the Knicks were in the running. Even the lower tier guys like Monroe have spurned him.
RE: RE: RE: without towns i was not impressed with the wolves
wiggins did nothing except for hitting a couple of open shots, his d was good on melo but nothing crazy..
lavine did nothing, he is all flair with no substance..
rubio looks shot, looks like he doesnt care..
dunn looks dreadful
i really hope thibs does not run towns into the ground
Dunn was suppose to NBA-ready, however having him sit behind Rubio has really slowed his progress down. I always felt Lavine would be a better PG than a SG, however he falls in love with the 3 point shot and forces it when he doesnt get attempts.
If they continue to lose, they have to trade Rubio. Well they should trade him anyways. However the protoypical PG that rubio is dying in the NBA. He cant shoot and doesnt have the speed to get to the basket or the foul line. I dont see where he fits on an NBA roster. I felt Philly was a good spot, but when Simmonds returns, he is going to be ball dominate. The Twolves were suppose to turn the corner and at this point, they have actually regressed.
I personally thought Dunn was very raw for a junior in college. He has upside but I think he fits better as a good bench guard. But so does Rubio.
I kind of disagree with them having to choose between Wiggins and Lavine. I don't think Wiggins is suited as a ball dominant player. He's still a poor dribbler and looks to jack up step backs/fadeways instead of playing within an offense. I think he can be very, very good if he stays off the ball.
Despite all of Lavines 3 point jacking he's still shooting 37% on 6.5 3s a game. Nothing impressive but there are games he can win you when he's hot. He's very streaky but he's about a pure shooter as you'll see in basketball.
Wolves will need to make a trade one way or another. Something like Dunn/Dieng for Noel. The future starting PG for this wolves team is currently not on the roster IMO.
At this rate they may be in the mix for a draft heavy PG. Ball, Fox, Fultz, and Smith are all top 10 already.
jennings they gave 5 million to so they have some rights to try and resign him, they tried trading for him to get his bird righta but couldnt get it done..
noah there were rumors of other teams but i dont know how true they were, noah never really mentioned other teams
he'd be nice in philly too but depending on how much Simmons dominates the ball it may better to surround him and Embiid with as many shooters as possible.
free agents has proven to be a dicey approach. So far Phil and all of his rings hasn't even been able to get meetings with the top tier guys, let alone sign them.
Such as who? Who were all these top guys that we couldn't get a meeting with? Only one I can think of is Aldridge and we made it clear that we wanted him at the 5 and if not, let's not waste time. Please list.
LMA, Horford, Durant. Durant was taking meetings IN NEW YORK and Phil couldn't even get in to see him. And then you had Mills trying to spin it after the fact. It's pathetic. Of the top guys who've been free agents, have any of them even considered the Knicks? Deandre is the only one I can think of where it was even mentioned that the Knicks were in the running. Even the lower tier guys like Monroe have spurned him.
horford? who cares he is so overrated it is unbelievable..
durant if you remember was with melo for a lot of his time in new york before his meetings, i am glad the knicks did not waste their time of he had no interest...
monroe is a thank god the knicks did not sign him and phil offered him less than the max, he would have been an awful fit
jennings they gave 5 million to so they have some rights to try and resign him, they tried trading for him to get his bird righta but couldnt get it done..
noah there were rumors of other teams but i dont know how true they were, noah never really mentioned other teams
Only other team I really heard tied to Noah was Minnesota and that was because thibs was there. Would've made very little sense for them to give Noah anywhere near that much. They passed on Luol Deng as well.
Whether you like the contracts or not and whether you would have gone in a different direction or not, he signed a few guys that were sought after elsewhere and were being offered more elsewhere. Noah, Jennings and Lee.
who was offering Noah more money? As for Jennings, here's a direct quote:
Quote:
Q: What other teams were interested in you?
A: Jennings: Actually I didnt get any offers from any other team but New York.
jennings they gave 5 million to so they have some rights to try and resign him, they tried trading for him to get his bird righta but couldnt get it done..
noah there were rumors of other teams but i dont know how true they were, noah never really mentioned other teams
Only other team I really heard tied to Noah was Minnesota and that was because thibs was there. Would've made very little sense for them to give Noah anywhere near that much. They passed on Luol Deng as well.
Whether you like the contracts or not and whether you would have gone in a different direction or not, he signed a few guys that were sought after elsewhere and were being offered more elsewhere. Noah, Jennings and Lee.
who was offering Noah more money? As for Jennings, here's a direct quote:
Quote:
Q: What other teams were interested in you?
A: Jennings: Actually I didnt get any offers from any other team but New York.
bahahahaha....
they gave him 5 million for a reason and is actually a smart reason
A very poor fit because it wouldn't have really helped the Knicks interior defense or rebounding issues. But if $18M a year for Noah is worth it then Horford should be getting paid $40M a year easy.
A very poor fit because it wouldn't have really helped the Knicks interior defense or rebounding issues. But if $18M a year for Noah is worth it then Horford should be getting paid $40M a year easy.
i dont think noah is worth 18 million...
enzo mentioned him in the same breathe as durant, and i just laugh at that
everyone makes him out to be a superstar, he is nowhere near auperstar status
Well im not sure who is calling Horford a superstar, I've never heard that. He's a very, very good player but he's not a center unless you have like Serge Ibaka or Anthony Davis playing PF.
so the only other team in the league that wanted him has Scott Layden prominently involved? That's just brilliant. And here you have a guy in Noah who by all accounts desperately wanted to come here - maybe you try and get him for less than 4 guaranteed years? Just a thought.
everyone makes him out to be a superstar, he is nowhere near auperstar status
Well im not sure who is calling Horford a superstar, I've never heard that. He's a very, very good player but he's not a center unless you have like Serge Ibaka or Anthony Davis playing PF.
enzo just mentioned him durants category as freee agents..
and everyone in media said signing horford put celtics over the top..
I thought Noah would fly under the radar and some team would scoop him up as a backup Big on a good deal, like 4 years $40M. Never would I have guessed he would've got what he did. $70M!!!
A very poor fit because it wouldn't have really helped the Knicks interior defense or rebounding issues. But if $18M a year for Noah is worth it then Horford should be getting paid $40M a year easy.
i dont think noah is worth 18 million...
enzo mentioned him in the same breathe as durant, and i just laugh at that
if you think my point was to say Horford is as good as Durant you're lost. Regardless, I take Horford at the full max over what we gave Noah any day of the week. And that's not exactly going out on a limb. Most people with a working brain would as well.
Whether you like the contracts or not and whether you would have gone in a different direction or not, he signed a few guys that were sought after elsewhere and were being offered more elsewhere. Noah, Jennings and Lee.
who was offering Noah more money? As for Jennings, here's a direct quote:
Quote:
Q: What other teams were interested in you?
A: Jennings: Actually I didnt get any offers from any other team but New York.
bahahahaha....
they gave him 5 million for a reason and is actually a smart reason
yes, it was a smart deal. For Jennings. Phil/Mills seem to love giving out deals where all of the upside is with the player.
Into the rhetoric that Boston was a contender just because of the Horford addition. If they got a stud rebounder/rim protector in the middle i think that fixes a lot of their problems. Talking about teams that should make a play for Noel..
A very poor fit because it wouldn't have really helped the Knicks interior defense or rebounding issues. But if $18M a year for Noah is worth it then Horford should be getting paid $40M a year easy.
i dont think noah is worth 18 million...
enzo mentioned him in the same breathe as durant, and i just laugh at that
if you think my point was to say Horford is as good as Durant you're lost. Regardless, I take Horford at the full max over what we gave Noah any day of the week. And that's not exactly going out on a limb. Most people with a working brain would as well.
I mean I agree with this. Certainly rather have Horford on his deal than Noah.
Would've much rather had Dwight howard at his current number than either of those 2 and I still retain that stance.
but I think he's certainly in a group of really good PFs. Say him, LMA, Blake. I did a career compare with those guys and Gasol & Bosh. Looking at Per 100 possession stats (ie normalized for pace), Horford is #1 in Ortg and Drtg. Behind them all in points (22.3 vs. 31-27 for the others) but better shooting %s. #2 BLKs, ST, TO. #3 REB and AST. And this is subjective, but I think he's at or near the top of that pack in both defense and doing the lunch pail things you need to do to win.
Can a guy like that be the best player on a title team? Absolutely not. But maybe the 2nd best and certainly if he is the 3rd best then you're the #1 or #2 title favorite.
he would be getting killed like noah is, he is getting max money and has missed 10 games and is averaging 15 and 6, that is worth max money?
Noah isnt getting killed because he's hurt (though it plays strongly into the condemnation of the contract). He's getting killed because he's averaging 22 minutes and 4 points. Dreadful.
he would be getting killed like noah is, he is getting max money and has missed 10 games and is averaging 15 and 6, that is worth max money?
Horford missed 9 of those games because of a concussion and the other one because of his wife delivering a kid. If you're gonna use that to compare To Noah's fragile limbs, something that has troubled him for years past you're fighting a losing argument. He played 82 games last year 76 the year before. If you're gonna contend he has recurring concussion issues that was known before coming in then I don't know what to say.
Also conveniently leaving off he has 5 assists per game this year which is incredible and not a fluke given his passing ability over the years. Also shootin 38% from 3.
he would be getting killed like noah is, he is getting max money and has missed 10 games and is averaging 15 and 6, that is worth max money?
Horford missed 9 of those games because of a concussion and the other one because of his wife delivering a kid. If you're gonna use that to compare To Noah's fragile limbs, something that has troubled him for years past you're fighting a losing argument. He played 82 games last year 76 the year before. If you're gonna contend he has recurring concussion issues that was known before coming in then I don't know what to say.
Also conveniently leaving off he has 5 assists per game this year which is incredible and not a fluke given his passing ability over the years. Also shootin 38% from 3.
but for a player making max money that is what you want? again if he was in new york you dont think he would be getting killed?
Is some fortune changing superstar but he's certainly an all star and he may be having his best season to date. I think he's been giving Boston everything they paid him for. Sure, they don't pay him $30M to get elbowed in the head and miss games because of a concussion. He should tough it out at all costs...
he would be getting killed like noah is, he is getting max money and has missed 10 games and is averaging 15 and 6, that is worth max money?
Noah isnt getting killed because he's hurt (though it plays strongly into the condemnation of the contract). He's getting killed because he's averaging 22 minutes and 4 points. Dreadful.
i am not comparing the 2 for reasons they are getting killed..
noah is getting killed because he has not fit in on offense and looks a step slow on defense...
horford would get killed for averaging the numbers he is and making max money
Is some fortune changing superstar but he's certainly an all star and he may be having his best season to date. I think he's been giving Boston everything they paid him for. Sure, they don't pay him $30M to get elbowed in the head and miss games because of a concussion. He should tough it out at all costs...
thats not what i said, do not spin my words..
you dont pay him 30 million to average 14 points and only grab 6 rebounds , the assists are great but you are paying him to be your 2nd superstar and he is not that..
RE: RE: RE: and if horford was in new york right now
he would be getting killed like noah is, he is getting max money and has missed 10 games and is averaging 15 and 6, that is worth max money?
Horford missed 9 of those games because of a concussion and the other one because of his wife delivering a kid. If you're gonna use that to compare To Noah's fragile limbs, something that has troubled him for years past you're fighting a losing argument. He played 82 games last year 76 the year before. If you're gonna contend he has recurring concussion issues that was known before coming in then I don't know what to say.
Also conveniently leaving off he has 5 assists per game this year which is incredible and not a fluke given his passing ability over the years. Also shootin 38% from 3.
but for a player making max money that is what you want? again if he was in new york you dont think he would be getting killed?
If he was averaging the same stats? 100% no. I think they'd have rebounding issues and paint protection issues (which they have both of right now) but you don't sign Horford to dominate the defensive interior.
Him gettin the max was the cost of doing business. If Mozgov and Noah are making 60% of what Horford is making then Horford is worth every penny and then some.
Is some fortune changing superstar but he's certainly an all star and he may be having his best season to date. I think he's been giving Boston everything they paid him for. Sure, they don't pay him $30M to get elbowed in the head and miss games because of a concussion. He should tough it out at all costs...
thats not what i said, do not spin my words..
you dont pay him 30 million to average 14 points and only grab 6 rebounds , the assists are great but you are paying him to be your 2nd superstar and he is not that..
I'm not spinning your words. You're killing him for missing 10 games like Noah. Why is Horford missing games? Because of a concussion. Does he have historic concussion problems? No. Was it a freak accident that happens to players every few weeks? Yes.
Why is Noah missing games? Random fucking ankle/shoulder/whatever dings. Has that been an issue for him in the past? Most definetly.
Horford isn't worth the max in the usual sense but how else would've Boston made any improvements? If they didn't give him $30M Atlanta would've retained him for $5-7M less a year (what they have D12 pretty much). But given the Mike Conley got the highest paid contract in league history Horfords contract isn't that ludicrous.
It was the cost of doing business to get an all star player for Boston. What else should they have done after whiffing on KD?
he has games where he is flat out awful. And games where he tunes it up and plays like the Noah of the past. Last night, KAT goes for 47/19. That would not have happened if Noah played.
my whole point was phil got ripped for not pursuing him
2.5 blocks a game, and is a very efficient, low usage player. 14 points on .600 TS%. Orating 122 D Rating 106. Great passer, checks all the boxes on advanced and box score metrics. Noah is not even in Hortfords stratosphere as a player at this stage in his career.
he has games where he is flat out awful. And games where he tunes it up and plays like the Noah of the past. Last night, KAT goes for 47/19. That would not have happened if Noah played.
Noah spent Monday night getting pushed around by Adams and Kanter...and somehow managed to collect ZERO defensive rebounds in 26 mins. So yeah, it could have happened and probably would have happened.
2.5 blocks a game, and is a very efficient, low usage player. 14 points on .600 TS%. Orating 122 D Rating 106. Great passer, checks all the boxes on advanced and box score metrics. Noah is not even in Hortfords stratosphere as a player at this stage in his career.
but we got the guy who can make nifty passes from the pinch post!
he has games where he is flat out awful. And games where he tunes it up and plays like the Noah of the past. Last night, KAT goes for 47/19. That would not have happened if Noah played.
Noah spent Monday night getting pushed around by Adams and Kanter...and somehow managed to collect ZERO defensive rebounds in 26 mins. So yeah, it could have happened and probably would have happened.
You're treating every game as if they are the same. He stunk against the Thunder but had some of his best games against Drummond (premier big), Bulls (former team), Raptors (top team in the east).
I know its a poor way to judge a player, but Ive seen it for years with Rose and Noah. They tend to pick it up in games they want. Going against KAT and Thibs would have brought out a pretty good Noah, IMO.
2.5 blocks a game, and is a very efficient, low usage player. 14 points on .600 TS%. Orating 122 D Rating 106. Great passer, checks all the boxes on advanced and box score metrics. Noah is not even in Hortfords stratosphere as a player at this stage in his career.
but we got the guy who can make nifty passes from the pinch post!
so you would be happy with horford making 30 million on the knicks?
I obviously wouldn't be happy. But I don't see how my expectations for KP has anything to do with what Boston had to do in order to upgrade their roster given the current salary cap circumstances.
I'm with you that Horford is not a superstar but did you expect Horford to make significant strides in his game at age 30 to play on par with his contract ? I don't think Boston is delusional in their expectations for him. It's exactly what the Knicks did with Courtney Lee. Lee is the most average SG in the NBA and for $15M a year. I don't think the Knicks were expecting him to become Dwayne Wade. They are getting exactly what any logical person would expect out of Lee. Same with Boston and Horford.
KP ended up as Hortford but Hortford has had an EXTREMELY good NBA career and is still having one. Having said that, the # of players who will end up better then Hortford is extremely low, so I would not be surprised if KP did not have a better career then Hortford.
Is some fortune changing superstar but he's certainly an all star and he may be having his best season to date. I think he's been giving Boston everything they paid him for. Sure, they don't pay him $30M to get elbowed in the head and miss games because of a concussion. He should tough it out at all costs...
thats not what i said, do not spin my words..
you dont pay him 30 million to average 14 points and only grab 6 rebounds , the assists are great but you are paying him to be your 2nd superstar and he is not that..
I'm not spinning your words. You're killing him for missing 10 games like Noah. Why is Horford missing games? Because of a concussion. Does he have historic concussion problems? No. Was it a freak accident that happens to players every few weeks? Yes.
Why is Noah missing games? Random fucking ankle/shoulder/whatever dings. Has that been an issue for him in the past? Most definetly.
Horford isn't worth the max in the usual sense but how else would've Boston made any improvements? If they didn't give him $30M Atlanta would've retained him for $5-7M less a year (what they have D12 pretty much). But given the Mike Conley got the highest paid contract in league history Horfords contract isn't that ludicrous.
It was the cost of doing business to get an all star player for Boston. What else should they have done after whiffing on KD?
Noah has missed 3 games out of 18. Horford has missed half the season so far. Keep in mind that these dings so far this season (ankle, illness) have nothing to do with prior injuries.
Noah's defense hasn't been great, and his offense was never going to be a strength. But he's an excellent passer and rebounder, and the team is better with him on the court versus off the court. He will almost definitely improve his rim protection, and as I've said many a time - if Mozgov and Mahinmi are getting 16M/yr, then I RUN to give Noah 18M/yr.
that is the reason i wanted nothing to do with horford, i knew giving him 30 million was an overpay and boston overreacted after losing out on durant...
ainge is turning into the next morey, chasing the next superstar
but he is a complimentary piece, he is not a superstar player, he is not a second option, he is a 3rd or 4th..
if kp became al horford for his career, woukd you be happy?
Why is KP being brought into this?
My point is Horfords production/Horfords contract >>> Noah's production/Noah's contract.
my point was he is not a superstar, so my question was if kp turns into horford would you be happy?
and i am not going to compare noah with horford, because i did nkt want either one for the contracts they got
KP's ceiling has nothing to do with Horford's abilities. WTF? Would you be happy is KP grew his hair back into braids? Because that question is about as relevant as what you're throwing out there.
You're ok with paying Rose 27 Mill a year but you think Hortford at 30 is a problem? Hortford is a SIGNIFICANTLY better NBA player then Rose right now. Yes, I'd be 100% ok with paying Al 30 mil a year in this NBA.
2.5 blocks a game, and is a very efficient, low usage player. 14 points on .600 TS%. Orating 122 D Rating 106. Great passer, checks all the boxes on advanced and box score metrics. Noah is not even in Hortfords stratosphere as a player at this stage in his career.
but we got the guy who can make nifty passes from the pinch post!
so you would be happy with horford making 30 million on the knicks?
Yes. Horford at 4/113 is a safer bet and a smarter signing going forward than Noah at 4/72.
You're ok with paying Rose 27 Mill a year but you think Hortford at 30 is a problem? Hortford is a SIGNIFICANTLY better NBA player then Rose right now. Yes, I'd be 100% ok with paying Al 30 mil a year in this NBA.
one is on a 1 year deal the other is on a 4 year deal, big difference..
You're ok with paying Rose 27 Mill a year but you think Hortford at 30 is a problem? Hortford is a SIGNIFICANTLY better NBA player then Rose right now. Yes, I'd be 100% ok with paying Al 30 mil a year in this NBA.
one is on a 1 year deal the other is on a 4 year deal, big difference..
I think he's referring to the potential extension rose is getting. And I'd have to say I'd agree with him.
You're ok with paying Rose 27 Mill a year but you think Hortford at 30 is a problem? Hortford is a SIGNIFICANTLY better NBA player then Rose right now. Yes, I'd be 100% ok with paying Al 30 mil a year in this NBA.
one is on a 1 year deal the other is on a 4 year deal, big difference..
was it you or someone else advocating for an extension for Rose at something around those numbers?
I think he's a valuable player and has the fight that this team needs. That being said, he's not a max player. I know teams are throwing around money like it's going out of style, but I'm hoping we can keep Rose for a more reasonable amount.
2.5 blocks a game, and is a very efficient, low usage player. 14 points on .600 TS%. Orating 122 D Rating 106. Great passer, checks all the boxes on advanced and box score metrics. Noah is not even in Hortfords stratosphere as a player at this stage in his career.
but we got the guy who can make nifty passes from the pinch post!
so you would be happy with horford making 30 million on the knicks?
Yes. Horford at 4/113 is a safer bet and a smarter signing going forward than Noah at 4/72.
forget noah..
horford on his own, 30 million you would be happy?
You're ok with paying Rose 27 Mill a year but you think Hortford at 30 is a problem? Hortford is a SIGNIFICANTLY better NBA player then Rose right now. Yes, I'd be 100% ok with paying Al 30 mil a year in this NBA.
one is on a 1 year deal the other is on a 4 year deal, big difference..
was it you or someone else advocating for an extension for Rose at something around those numbers?
i said later in the season if the team picks up and he plays better but right now no i would not resign him
is a good contract, there's no denying that. I would have preferred that over Noah's contract, sure.
The problem is that most people just look at the raw numbers and say "that's a bad deal," which is idiotic considering the cap jump this past offseason. Now, the cap isn't expected to increase nearly as much this coming offseason (last I saw was a $102M projection), but that doesn't change the fact that each contract should be looked at in the context of percentage of cap. It becomes even more true when you take into account that max contracts are literally defined as a percentage of the cap for that year.
RoLo's deal was signed at approximately 18.5% of the cap for that year. Noah's deal represented 19.1% of the cap this year. Now, we can argue the matter of RoLo's value versus Noah's, but that's not a discussion I'm trying to rehash. Noah's deal isn't bad based on salary - it's bad based on length of contract. But even then, it won't be an albatross given cap increases in the 3rd and 4th year.
is a good contract, there's no denying that. I would have preferred that over Noah's contract, sure.
The problem is that most people just look at the raw numbers and say "that's a bad deal," which is idiotic considering the cap jump this past offseason. Now, the cap isn't expected to increase nearly as much this coming offseason (last I saw was a $102M projection), but that doesn't change the fact that each contract should be looked at in the context of percentage of cap. It becomes even more true when you take into account that max contracts are literally defined as a percentage of the cap for that year.
RoLo's deal was signed at approximately 18.5% of the cap for that year. Noah's deal represented 19.1% of the cap this year. Now, we can argue the matter of RoLo's value versus Noah's, but that's not a discussion I'm trying to rehash. Noah's deal isn't bad based on salary - it's bad based on length of contract. But even then, it won't be an albatross given cap increases in the 3rd and 4th year.
Yes I think it is extremely bad both in length and salary. On a roster basis, how does this team improve going forward? Getting a better PG? We are likely going to keep Rose. Where else can we make improvements? Upgrade on Melo and KP? No. then upgrade where? SG and center would be the easy way to upgrade the roster. But oh wait, lee and Noah are on contract for 4 years. This is the team the Knicks are going to rely on to improve each year.
is a good contract, there's no denying that. I would have preferred that over Noah's contract, sure.
The problem is that most people just look at the raw numbers and say "that's a bad deal," which is idiotic considering the cap jump this past offseason. Now, the cap isn't expected to increase nearly as much this coming offseason (last I saw was a $102M projection), but that doesn't change the fact that each contract should be looked at in the context of percentage of cap. It becomes even more true when you take into account that max contracts are literally defined as a percentage of the cap for that year.
RoLo's deal was signed at approximately 18.5% of the cap for that year. Noah's deal represented 19.1% of the cap this year. Now, we can argue the matter of RoLo's value versus Noah's, but that's not a discussion I'm trying to rehash. Noah's deal isn't bad based on salary - it's bad based on length of contract. But even then, it won't be an albatross given cap increases in the 3rd and 4th year.
Yes I think it is extremely bad both in length and salary. On a roster basis, how does this team improve going forward? Getting a better PG? We are likely going to keep Rose. Where else can we make improvements? Upgrade on Melo and KP? No. then upgrade where? SG and center would be the easy way to upgrade the roster. But oh wait, lee and Noah are on contract for 4 years. This is the team the Knicks are going to rely on to improve each year.
is a good contract, there's no denying that. I would have preferred that over Noah's contract, sure.
The problem is that most people just look at the raw numbers and say "that's a bad deal," which is idiotic considering the cap jump this past offseason. Now, the cap isn't expected to increase nearly as much this coming offseason (last I saw was a $102M projection), but that doesn't change the fact that each contract should be looked at in the context of percentage of cap. It becomes even more true when you take into account that max contracts are literally defined as a percentage of the cap for that year.
RoLo's deal was signed at approximately 18.5% of the cap for that year. Noah's deal represented 19.1% of the cap this year. Now, we can argue the matter of RoLo's value versus Noah's, but that's not a discussion I'm trying to rehash. Noah's deal isn't bad based on salary - it's bad based on length of contract. But even then, it won't be an albatross given cap increases in the 3rd and 4th year.
Many here and in the media had questions about Noah's health and his viability as an effective NBA player going forward. On that basis, his deal is most certainly a potential albatross based on salary. And yeah, the length sucks too.
Turkish squad Tofas Bursa agreed to terms with Copeland, as reported by Eurohoops. The forward returns to Europe after four seasons in the NBA with the Knicks, Pacers and Bucks.
Yuck. Cousins for DeAndre Jordan is an awful deal for Sac Link - ( New Window )
Why would the Warriors,clippers or Cavs trade for cousins? Is that a legit rumor or did some guy make up a scenario?
The claim is the Kings are going to move Cousins
I don't doubt that he'll be in a different city come season end. I just doubt that the 3 top teams would make a move like that. I guess LAC has a case and obviously Cleveland would probably be better off with Cousins then Love. Not sure id rather have cousins over Draymond as the 3rd option.
Anyways, I know Sacramento will get 70 cents on the dollar for cousins, but I still think they could get a better haul then just Love/Deandre Jordan. I mean Boston has Brooklyn picks they'd throw at a chance to get cousins.
They won last year, they have good chemistry right now and it's working.
Clippers make a lot of sense because they have good veteran leadership and Paul will get him the ball plenty.
Warriors? I can't see it. They need role players around their two best players and they have some of the best role players in the game in Green and Thompson.
They can package some combo of Johnson (for salary), olynyk, smart, brown and the 2 BKN picks for cousins. Just makes too much sense. Not that I'd root for Boston per se but a trio of Thomas, Horford and cousins would be one fun team to watch.
I would hate to see that. I would just have to hope that Cousins really is a cancer that can't play with other high profile guys.
That's been my take on cousins over the years. But i think if there was one man that could get to him it would be popovich. But if there's were two men that could get to him the other would be Stevens.
I've never been so much an NBA fan as I am a Knicks fan, so I generally don't get too wrapped up in what other players around the league are doing, but this guy is something special. If he played for a higher profile team than Milwaukee, he'd be hyped to the moon.
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Porzingis is averaging 1.27 points per possession as the roll man in pick-&-rolls. That's the 2nd high PPP among players w/ > 40 possesions
Really strange that Rose seemingly hasn't found a way to make this work with Zinger. That combo could be really hard to defend for anyone if they got some chemistry.
is someone to keep in mind if you're inclined to ask why the Twolves arent suddenly a powerhouse. Player development takes time. Team development too.
He was raw but the talent was undeniable.
KAT and Wiggins were NBA ready. Lavine had elite athleticism. They are lacking a little depth and one starting position.
Hmm if you watched Wiggins at Kansas I'm not sure you could call him "NBA ready".
Even if you call someone "NBA ready" I'm not sure that means their ceiling is any lower or that it takes them any less time to reach that ceiling.
I'd argue that Giannis had more Nba ready skills coming into the league. He was a much better ball handler and passer than Wiggins coming in. Wiggins couldn't really shoot at all, much of his scoring came from cuts/putbacks and straight line drives in college.
they are ready to compete and start from day 1. Of course wiggins had some shooting issues. But averaging 17 and 4 and getting to the line nearly 6 times a game showed that he could instantly play in the league. Greek Freak came in an averaged something like 6-7 points per game because of a lack of experience (playing only for 5 years before coming into the NBA). Where as Wiggins has been basically been playing top competition his entire life.
they are ready to compete and start from day 1. Of course wiggins had some shooting issues. But averaging 17 and 4 and getting to the line nearly 6 times a game showed that he could instantly play in the league. Greek Freak came in an averaged something like 6-7 points per game because of a lack of experience (playing only for 5 years before coming into the NBA). Where as Wiggins has been basically been playing top competition his entire life.
That's true, but I don't think that changes the overall point. Wiggins is expected to be the best player on the team and he's pretty much the same age as KP. And it's not necessarily his offense, it's his defense.
How many guys come into the league contribute as impact defenders at age 21? Now try building a defense with 2 other 20 year olds (one who is expected to anchor the defense and the other who had major defensive flaws but has the physical tools to become capable).
Thibs may or may not be a good coach but it's certainly unfair to judge the future of this team when two of the core guys can't even get beer from a liquor store. Circle back to when they are 25-26 and if they still are winning 40% of their games then there's a problem. I don't see the rush to determine whether this team is going to be a powerhouse right now when they can theoretically keep this team together for at least 7 more years.
I don't see how Minnesota or Philly can be used as examples to judge whether tanking is a viable option to build a team. It's an extremely long process with a very long term view and they are both being judged in year 3-4. Yeah, that's long as fans of a team but that's not how the procsss works. No one who advocates tanking says to only pay players you drafted. The first step is to acquire young talent. Check for both teams. The second is to sign good veterans while the young guys are on their rookie deals. Neither team has gotten to that step yet. Philly will be forced to very soon. Minnesota still has a few years to worry about that.
just replying this way so the thread doesnt becomes astronomically long.
The problem with the NBA is you got to show results sooner rather than later. A team like Philly gets extended due to..
1. Being bad
2. Top picks being hurt (embiid, noel, now simmons)
3. Major holes on roster.
Minny is in another boat. This is year 3 of Wiggins and Levine. Year 4 for Dieng. Rubio has been around for years. And their best player is only 21. They have to be better than 5-12. Losing is contagious. Their starting 5, while not being able to compete against the Warriors, clippers, or spurs - should at least compete with the rest of the conference.
Can they turn it around by the end of the year and make the playoffs? I still believe they can. They absolutely will get better. But they have to be by far the most disappointing team in the NBA this year.
I sure expected more. Even though they had unfairly high expectations coming in considering they didn't sign anyone of note to the roster, it's been a pretty slow start for them. But it's not like they weren't actively seeking players. They though Luol Deng and Noah were too expensive and not worth sacrificing future cap room on guys who are transitioning to being washed up. It'll be interesting to see who they add going forward. They have trade chips at their disposal as well.
But it's just like if they're bad, so what? At the rate they are progressing, they have what looks to be 3 25 PPG scorers on their hands. Why not wait it out for a few years and if they still suck then consider other options. They're gonna have no shortage of suitors for Wiggins and Lavine (assuming towns will be the guy to keep).
wiggins and lavine are volume scorers not effecient scorers, so when the knicks played them towns went off but the other guys never got into rhythm..
that is my worry with the knicks that rose and melo can not adapt to being effecient acorers rather than volume...kp is effecient because he plays so well catch and shoot
The 09-10 Thunder won 50 games with KD and Westbrook at 21 and Harden at 20.
That was KD's 3rd season. If you think of KAT as the central star of the Wolves (I do), it's fair to compare his 2nd season to KD's 2nd season where they won 23 games with a rookie RW and no Harden (ie I think KAT has a better cast).
It will be troubling if they dont finish strong and have a good 2017-18. But with a new coach Im not sweating this year if I was a Minny fan.
I'm not sure why people expect the TWolves to be much better than
last year. What did they do to warrant expecting them to get so much better?
KAT and Wiggins plus crew being a year more mature and experienced. I dont think they need to win 50 games, but they're losing at a worse rate than last year, and that's pretty surprising. That should be adding at least 5-10 wins based on maturity alone I think.
RE: I'm not sure why people expect the TWolves to be much better than
The 09-10 Thunder won 50 games with KD and Westbrook at 21 and Harden at 20.
I don't think OKC is the end all be all comparison. We're talking about 3 potential HoF guys. I think towns' ceiling is damn near unlimited but I don't think it's a sure thing he'all be as good as KD or Westbrook (looks like he has a good chance though).
How about the Warriors? They didn't crack 40 wins until Steph's 5th season (klays 2nd). Even then it required shuffling around (getting bogut and then iggy after). I don't think you can set an specific time frame for any young team.
The 09-10 Thunder won 50 games with KD and Westbrook at 21 and Harden at 20.
I don't think OKC is the end all be all comparison. We're talking about 3 potential HoF guys. I think towns' ceiling is damn near unlimited but I don't think it's a sure thing he'all be as good as KD or Westbrook (looks like he has a good chance though).
How about the Warriors? They didn't crack 40 wins until Steph's 5th season (klays 2nd). Even then it required shuffling around (getting bogut and then iggy after). I don't think you can set an specific time frame for any young team.
warriors got much better and took that next step when draymond green came in and blew away expectations
It isnt great either for the reason I mentioned. also, I just dont buy that Wiggins will be a top 10 player. OKC had two guys on that trajectory (and Im not even getting into Harden who was a rookie that season). And Im not convinced that KAT is as good a prospect as KD. Those OKC guys really reached their potential.
GS is another apt comparison. It took Curry thru his rookie deal to really become elite (IIRC).
Well, I guess it's the difference in expectations. I can see the room for them to be much better but that doesn't make it fair to expect it. They basically added a top pick, who has struggled mightily. The rest is based on Thibs and another year under their belt? Ok, I can see how they can be expected to be better, but how much? 7-11 instead of 5-13? It's a stretch to say that they should definitely compete for a playoff spot. That's a lot of onus on some really guys who have so far flashed highlights and piled up stats in losses. They have no veteran leadership. That bench is pretty bad, too.
RE: RE: and they should be much better defensively
Well, I guess it's the difference in expectations. I can see the room for them to be much better but that doesn't make it fair to expect it. They basically added a top pick, who has struggled mightily. The rest is based on Thibs and another year under their belt? Ok, I can see how they can be expected to be better, but how much? 7-11 instead of 5-13? It's a stretch to say that they should definitely compete for a playoff spot. That's a lot of onus on some really guys who have so far flashed highlights and piled up stats in losses. They have no veteran leadership. That bench is pretty bad, too.
The bench part can't be stressed enough. Especially if you consider that Rubio and Dieng as plus bench guys and not starters on a good team.
Ny16 that brings back to my point, when have 20 year olds been impact defenders regardless of athleticism? Deandre Jordan is as about of a good of an athlete as they come in the NBA and it took him a good 6 years before becoming one of the premier defensive anchors in the league. He was fairly below average for the first 3-4 years as well. Kawhi was a stiff coming into the league and needed to be seasoned for a good 4 years before realizing his defensive potential. Anthony Davis was just a damn good shot blocker for the first few years. Same with ibaka. Ibaka wasn't very good at actual help defense until the last few years. I could go on and on. You see young guys make all star teams but how many actually make all defensive teams in the NBA.
and are wasting him on the bench. Plus he will be 23, so its not like he is young and needs time. They could have drafted Murray who has been picking it up. They could have taken Chriss who has flashed. Hell, they could have taken Maker (who I am not huge on, but the upside is there). You dont draft a PG and sit him behind the worst offensive PG in the NBA.
This team should be at least .500 fighting for a playoff spot.
and are wasting him on the bench. Plus he will be 23, so its not like he is young and needs time. They could have drafted Murray who has been picking it up. They could have taken Chriss who has flashed. Hell, they could have taken Maker (who I am not huge on, but the upside is there). You dont draft a PG and sit him behind the worst offensive PG in the NBA.
This team should be at least .500 fighting for a playoff spot.
Dunn has been even worse than Rubio. It's probably right to invest in him for the long term but that might have even made their start worse than it is.
RE: RE: RE: and they should be much better defensively
Well, I guess it's the difference in expectations. I can see the room for them to be much better but that doesn't make it fair to expect it. They basically added a top pick, who has struggled mightily. The rest is based on Thibs and another year under their belt? Ok, I can see how they can be expected to be better, but how much? 7-11 instead of 5-13? It's a stretch to say that they should definitely compete for a playoff spot. That's a lot of onus on some really guys who have so far flashed highlights and piled up stats in losses. They have no veteran leadership. That bench is pretty bad, too.
The bench part can't be stressed enough. Especially if you consider that Rubio and Dieng as plus bench guys and not starters on a good team.
Ny16 that brings back to my point, when have 20 year olds been impact defenders regardless of athleticism? Deandre Jordan is as about of a good of an athlete as they come in the NBA and it took him a good 6 years before becoming one of the premier defensive anchors in the league. He was fairly below average for the first 3-4 years as well. Kawhi was a stiff coming into the league and needed to be seasoned for a good 4 years before realizing his defensive potential. Anthony Davis was just a damn good shot blocker for the first few years. Same with ibaka. Ibaka wasn't very good at actual help defense until the last few years. I could go on and on. You see young guys make all star teams but how many actually make all defensive teams in the NBA.
Defense in the NBA is simply really, really hard.
i am not saying they should be lock down defenders but with their athleticism and thibs expertise on that end i thiught they would be much better...
i thought lavine and wiggins could be a terror together on defense with towns shot blocking
How bad has this draft class been. Even counting Simmons being hurt. Embiid and Saric have been the two best "rookies".
Ingram, bender, hield and dunn have been horrendous. Brownand sabonis have been OK. Murray honestly looks like the second best player from the draft (not counting Ingram out, he's gonna be fine, but boy it was crime to even compare him to KD 3 months ago let alone today). Chriss hasn't been all that good but considering how raw he was he's looking alright compared to his peers.
The Maker pick doesn't look like a bad risk at all now.
lavine looks lazy on defense and only wants to score on offense...
they really cpuld of used one more year with kg at least on the bench beong a leader like sheed was here
Hmm yeah I can understand the Wiggins criticism, but he's still only 21, he's gonna have some sort of useful role in the league. Lavine was a horrible defender coming in so it might take him a bit longer than Wiggins or towns to become competent on that end. But overall I like his potential more than that of Wiggins.
and are wasting him on the bench. Plus he will be 23, so its not like he is young and needs time. They could have drafted Murray who has been picking it up. They could have taken Chriss who has flashed. Hell, they could have taken Maker (who I am not huge on, but the upside is there). You dont draft a PG and sit him behind the worst offensive PG in the NBA.
This team should be at least .500 fighting for a playoff spot.
Dunn has been even worse than Rubio. It's probably right to invest in him for the long term but that might have even made their start worse than it is.
He still needs to play more. But he also plays for Thibs who doesnt really play rookies.
the problem for the wolves was this was not supposed to be a tank year, they were supposed to take the next step, and they have failed miserably so far...
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condemning all tank jobs 100 games into KAT's career.
the problem for the wolves was this was not supposed to be a tank year, they were supposed to take the next step, and they have failed miserably so far...
Ironically I think this is 100% what Deej was referring to lol
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condemning all tank jobs 100 games into KAT's career.
the problem for the wolves was this was not supposed to be a tank year, they were supposed to take the next step, and they have failed miserably so far...
Here is an article written by Chris Herring on the Wolves that documents 3rd quarter troubles for the Wolves:
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-cant-the-timberwolves-finish-games/?ex_cid=story-twitter
Not making excuses and not defending Thibs (I got you dep) but its not like the Wolves havent been capable of playing great basketball. They just fail to do so consistently throughout the game.
Ive never been a fan of Rubio and I'm losing my faith in Gorgui Dieng, especially as Towns should be a full time center but he's not seasoned as a rim protector yet (but what second year center is?).
Like you said, the Wolves are done tanking, but they haven't exactly gotten the veteran leadership to transition them to the next phase. I hardly consider Rubio or Aldrich part of the solution.
there hasn't been much reported on the changes to the CBA but I think it was Windhorst who said he was hearing there probably would NOT be an amnesty clause.
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there's an amnesty clause in the new CBA. I didn't think Noah would be THIS bad.
there hasn't been much reported on the changes to the CBA but I think it was Windhorst who said he was hearing there probably would NOT be an amnesty clause.
That's a shame. Why is that? Don't amnestied player still get paid in full?
there was a lot more contact on that jennings drive than on the foul they just called on the other end...really is rediculous
Loved that series on the D end. Kooz and Holiday busting it too. Let's go!
That was beastly.
It happens the second Melo comes in
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Jennings and Rose with the bad shot selection. Shocking they start chucking up crappy shots and the lead drops by 4.
It happens the second Melo comes in
Didn't want to blame Melo. But I was thinking it.
Too bad, he was shooting good tonight.
Kooz needs more minutes
Kooz needs more minutes
+1000
He just stands there with KP and the defender on him as he launches up a contested shot.
The voice is like nails against a bkackboard
I thought it was on Townes. Then I see he's shooting FTs. Psh.
LoL I know wtf?
And taking bad shots at that. He's really annoying to watch half the time.
And taking bad shots at that. He's really annoying to watch half the time.
Has it really gotten to the point where people are complaining about Melo taking away shots from a rookie who has been shooting 39% for the year? Christ.
Quote:
taking shots away from Kooz.
And taking bad shots at that. He's really annoying to watch half the time.
Has it really gotten to the point where people are complaining about Melo taking away shots from a rookie who has been shooting 39% for the year? Christ.
good timing bro
i think he was mad he missed kp
When he gets in a groove he looks dominating. I know what you're saying though. He can look bad at times for sure.
wait so you dont watch every game but are going to make a definitive statment off of one game? makes sense
he has not played well tonight but he has played well this season
At best, he is an average PG.
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and all I see is sloppy ball handling and a shoot first attitude. LOL, Horny calling that TO and Rose pleading for him not to do it was just the icing. Rose doesn't know how to run point if he isn't dominating the ball.
wait so you dont watch every game but are going to make a definitive statment off of one game? makes sense
he has not played well tonight but he has played well this season
Fuck off and read what I wrote. And then point to where I said I didn't watch games.
my mistake
he has not played well tonight but he has played well this season
You are looking through Rose colored glasses.
At best, he is an average PG.
after watching him this year you think he is a bad basketball player?
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Never the same after the injuries.
At best, he is an average PG.
after watching him this year you think he is a bad basketball player?
Average. And nowhere near worth 27 million a year or whatever it is.
Of course. Tied game. 20-3 run. Pitiful.
Thinks he's the only player that can score. He's an anchor dragging this team down.
And the refs are doing everything they can to give the wolves the win.
Stuck with lee, Thomas and Noah. But when can you do?
Thinks he's the only player that can score. He's an anchor dragging this team down.
And the refs are doing everything they can to give the wolves the win.
+infinity
If Melo never left the bench this game wouldn't have been close.
Yeah, he was simply amazing tonight. Just the tits.
If Melo never left the bench this game wouldn't have been close.
really not fair, amd we wonder why no superstar wants to come here
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with the GW shot and then denial of the inbound.
Yeah, he was simply amazing tonight. Just the tits.
Melo don't lie.
If Melo never left the bench this game wouldn't have been close.
Exactly. Biggest contributor to blowing a double digit lead. If he didn't hit one shot and play defense once, he'd have single-handedly lost the game.
But Melo has to learn it is not about getting his shot to fall. This is Porzingas' team. Melo and Rose both need to check their egos and acknowledge that.
This is an excellent point.
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Go home Melo, this team is better without you.
If Melo never left the bench this game wouldn't have been close.
really not fair, amd we wonder why no superstar wants to come here
Oh give me a break, what games are you watching? I've been his biggest support for a long time. He's not going to change even though he's half the player he used to be. Learn to adapt to winning basketball and I'll support him again. Right now he's just a selfish player. Perfectly fair.
Besides, Porzingis looks like he was nursing a limp during the game. Breen mentioned it more than once.
Quote:
In comment 13242088 PhiPsi125 said:
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Go home Melo, this team is better without you.
If Melo never left the bench this game wouldn't have been close.
really not fair, amd we wonder why no superstar wants to come here
Oh give me a break, what games are you watching? I've been his biggest support for a long time. He's not going to change even though he's half the player he used to be. Learn to adapt to winning basketball and I'll support him again. Right now he's just a selfish player. Perfectly fair.
how many shots he take in the 4th quarter?
mr selfish took THREE. shots in the 4th...
my mistake
No problem. Sorry myself, I was frustrated watching that lead dwindle.
My point went Rose has never differ even when he has a good shooting night. Rose's game is dominating the ball until he gets going. For this team and this offense that's not something that will work on a consistent basis.
Well, if you say so.
Kooz made as many shots on 7 fewer attempts
Quote:
but reread what you wrote, you made it sound like you dont watch every game...
my mistake
No problem. Sorry myself, I was frustrated watching that lead dwindle.
My point went Rose has never differ even when he has a good shooting night. Rose's game is dominating the ball until he gets going. For this team and this offense that's not something that will work on a consistent basis.
me myself i think he is still adjusting, remember he is used to being the ball dominant player and only scoring option..
he is still foguring out when to pick his spots..
tonight he did not play well though
Kooz made as many shots on 7 fewer attempts
my point was, he said he came in and he was the reason they lost the lead and i called bullshit...
he only took 3 shots, so how was he ball hogging and being selfish? the ball was in jennings hands the entire 4th
My god, if you want to ride this train then more power to you. I'm not going toe to toe with you all night. I know what he is. It's not just one quarter. It's not just one game. You can ride his jock if you want. Have at it.
People are just in a rush to kill the guy and hand the team over to KP as if Melo is somehow holding him back.
Rose was terrible. I'm glad hornacek is willing to sit guys if it's not working. Jennings had control. Good minutes from the whole bench.
People are just in a rush to kill the guy and hand the team over to KP as if Melo is somehow holding him back.
the funny thing is when melo is gone and the team is not winning they will atart killing kp...
kp himself said he would not be playing this well without melo and rose, yet fans want to get rid of melo and rose, makes sense
5 for 16
4 for 19
7 for 25
14 for 25
7 for 22
He's horrible right now. It's okay to say that. He isn't an asset on the defensive side of the floor. When his shot isn't falling. He's a liability. Like I said earlier, he needs to reinvent his game for when he is cold.
KAT is ridiculous. NBA has a couple of super young frontcourt studs.
KAT, Greek Freak, KP, Embiid, and Simmons when he comes back. Assuming Embiid stays healthy, who would you take?
Rose was terrible. I'm glad hornacek is willing to sit guys if it's not working. Jennings had control. Good minutes from the whole bench.
Exactly. His effort and D are always suspect too, even when his O is hot.
And as for your future telling abilities, it's funny that you find it so easy to tell people how they will root in the future as if Melo and KP are the same person or that you have any clue to what you are talking about.
KP and Melo couldn't be any different. But, yeah, if KP develops into a selfish, me-first player that hinders the team...then yeah, fans will probably get on him too. Me thinks that won't happen though.
He attempted 5 shots total in the first half. It's not like he was out there chucking it and killing the offense.
No, it's actually a fact that he cannot athletically hang with small forwards. That part of his career is over. 4 is his best position and has been since like 2011.
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Like I said earlier, he needs to reinvent his game for when he is cold.
He attempted 5 shots total in the first half. It's not like he was out there chucking it and killing the offense.
It's not just his offense that's killing. You're right. he was better tonight about not going ISO every time and chucking it up as the shot clock diminishes. But, he didn't take great shots when he attempted them and his effort on D is inconsistent which kills the momentum we could potentially build. You never know if he's going to attack the ball or not.
And as for your future telling abilities, it's funny that you find it so easy to tell people how they will root in the future as if Melo and KP are the same person or that you have any clue to what you are talking about.
KP and Melo couldn't be any different. But, yeah, if KP develops into a selfish, me-first player that hinders the team...then yeah, fans will probably get on him too. Me thinks that won't happen though.
do you realize knicks fans killed ewing?
it comes with the territory in new york, every star gets blamed for everything and when they win they get none of the credit..
look at eli as a perfect example, is he a selfish player? no yet he gets ripped after every game win ot lose...
ot is not just melo, there is a reason why no star wants to come to new york
And you can see the effect of his inconsistency at times. He'll actually go for a rebound and then he bumps into his teammate who assumes he's just going to stand around doing nothing.
You mean coaches run plays that have multiple options? That can't be true. And even then - despite Melo's shooting, Hornacek still expected a Melo double team, and when there wasn't the ball still went to him.
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holding him back? Come on man.
And as for your future telling abilities, it's funny that you find it so easy to tell people how they will root in the future as if Melo and KP are the same person or that you have any clue to what you are talking about.
KP and Melo couldn't be any different. But, yeah, if KP develops into a selfish, me-first player that hinders the team...then yeah, fans will probably get on him too. Me thinks that won't happen though.
do you realize knicks fans killed ewing?
it comes with the territory in new york, every star gets blamed for everything and when they win they get none of the credit..
look at eli as a perfect example, is he a selfish player? no yet he gets ripped after every game win ot lose...
ot is not just melo, there is a reason why no star wants to come to new york
The difference between Melo and Eli is that the media loves Melo's game and hates Eli's game, while the fans hate Melo's game and love Eli's game.
that 54 win season no one talks about, he carried that team and who gets the credit for leading thay team? jason kidd..
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In comment 13242152 PhiPsi125 said:
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holding him back? Come on man.
And as for your future telling abilities, it's funny that you find it so easy to tell people how they will root in the future as if Melo and KP are the same person or that you have any clue to what you are talking about.
KP and Melo couldn't be any different. But, yeah, if KP develops into a selfish, me-first player that hinders the team...then yeah, fans will probably get on him too. Me thinks that won't happen though.
do you realize knicks fans killed ewing?
it comes with the territory in new york, every star gets blamed for everything and when they win they get none of the credit..
look at eli as a perfect example, is he a selfish player? no yet he gets ripped after every game win ot lose...
ot is not just melo, there is a reason why no star wants to come to new york
The difference between Melo and Eli is that the media loves Melo's game and hates Eli's game, while the fans hate Melo's game and love Eli's game.
the media loves melos game? really? who?
it happens to every single star player in new york, i am jusy sick of it..
did melo play well tonight? absolutely not, has he played well these past couple of weeks? no he hasnt but fans have want to run him out of town since linsanity..
Yes, I agree that it comes with the territory here in NY to some degree. But it's also the player. Eli is a different issue. That shit boggles my mind. My issue with Melo is that he could be such an amazing player if he didn't still believe that he's on the same level as Lebron. He can adapt and change and really take this team to the next level. I just don't think he will ever do that. Sure, he's going to have his good stretches, but he'll never change in my opinion.
does anyone still take stephen a seriously?
People give Melo shit for Iso-ing all the time, but there's a reason that it's been consistent throughout various coaches over the past 6 years. He's one of the best in the NBA at creating his own shot. Give him an inch and he'll hit the shot with a lot of consistency.
Go look at an interview with Paul Pierce from a few years ago where he named the toughest players he ever had to guard. Read the blurb on Melo. Knicks fans take what he brings to the team for granted.
And DESPITE EVERYTHING, Melo came into the game KNOWING that his shot was off. Throughout the entire 1st half, both Breen and Clyde were talking about how Melo wasn't even looking for his shot, and just trying to pass. The dude can't win.
it is not just about this year, every single year fans wanted to get rid of him, after the 54 win season people wanted to get rid of him...
i am done, i get why people are frustrated with him this year, i guess my fristration is with everyone trying to run him out of town every year he has been here...
the worst was the jeremy lin thing
People give Melo shit for Iso-ing all the time, but there's a reason that it's been consistent throughout various coaches over the past 6 years. He's one of the best in the NBA at creating his own shot. Give him an inch and he'll hit the shot with a lot of consistency.
Go look at an interview with Paul Pierce from a few years ago where he named the toughest players he ever had to guard. Read the blurb on Melo. Knicks fans take what he brings to the team for granted.
And DESPITE EVERYTHING, Melo came into the game KNOWING that his shot was off. Throughout the entire 1st half, both Breen and Clyde were talking about how Melo wasn't even looking for his shot, and just trying to pass. The dude can't win.
Because of how 1 dimensional he is, that's true. If he can't shoot, he's worthless.
2 - Lee
3 - Whomever
4 - Melo
5 - Porzingis
2 - Lee
3 - Whomever
4 - Melo
5 - Porzingis
If Melo embraced the 4, this team could be special.
Plumlee looked great tonight btw. Contesting and playing physical. He was impressive.
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Before the game winner. An open 3 off a Jennings PnR that he airballed, and an elbow jumper - basically his bread and butter shot. He's in a shooting slump - it happens.
People give Melo shit for Iso-ing all the time, but there's a reason that it's been consistent throughout various coaches over the past 6 years. He's one of the best in the NBA at creating his own shot. Give him an inch and he'll hit the shot with a lot of consistency.
Go look at an interview with Paul Pierce from a few years ago where he named the toughest players he ever had to guard. Read the blurb on Melo. Knicks fans take what he brings to the team for granted.
And DESPITE EVERYTHING, Melo came into the game KNOWING that his shot was off. Throughout the entire 1st half, both Breen and Clyde were talking about how Melo wasn't even looking for his shot, and just trying to pass. The dude can't win.
Because of how 1 dimensional he is, that's true. If he can't shoot, he's worthless.
Yes, last year when he had career highs in rebounds and assists and played some of the best defense of his career, he proved his monodimensionality. I'll give you that his defense has been shit this year, but you can say that with everyone on the team this year. Rose has gotten better on D, Holiday has been great on that side, and Jennings has proved to be quite pesky at times (bringing back memories of Prigioni). Everyone else has been dogshit.
And this "effort" argument isn't even worth addressing.
2 - Lee
3 - Whomever
4 - Melo
5 - Porzingis
If you really believe Porzingis should be a fulltime 5 at this point in his career, you should stick to NFL mock drafts. Playing the 5 isn't predicated upon purely a player's height. God knows what your advice for Nowitzki would have been his first few years in the league.
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1 - Rose
2 - Lee
3 - Whomever
4 - Melo
5 - Porzingis
If you really believe Porzingis should be a fulltime 5 at this point in his career, you should stick to NFL mock drafts. Playing the 5 isn't predicated upon purely a player's height. God knows what your advice for Nowitzki would have been his first few years in the league.
Lmao.. true. KP isn't ready for the fulltime 5 role just yet. Noahs contract is an abysmal. But right now KP needs to lean on him for veteran leadership. Can't have KP out there banging with 5's every night.
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In comment 13242182 Aspano! said:
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Before the game winner. An open 3 off a Jennings PnR that he airballed, and an elbow jumper - basically his bread and butter shot. He's in a shooting slump - it happens.
People give Melo shit for Iso-ing all the time, but there's a reason that it's been consistent throughout various coaches over the past 6 years. He's one of the best in the NBA at creating his own shot. Give him an inch and he'll hit the shot with a lot of consistency.
Go look at an interview with Paul Pierce from a few years ago where he named the toughest players he ever had to guard. Read the blurb on Melo. Knicks fans take what he brings to the team for granted.
And DESPITE EVERYTHING, Melo came into the game KNOWING that his shot was off. Throughout the entire 1st half, both Breen and Clyde were talking about how Melo wasn't even looking for his shot, and just trying to pass. The dude can't win.
Because of how 1 dimensional he is, that's true. If he can't shoot, he's worthless.
Yes, last year when he had career highs in rebounds and assists and played some of the best defense of his career, he proved his monodimensionality. I'll give you that his defense has been shit this year, but you can say that with everyone on the team this year. Rose has gotten better on D, Holiday has been great on that side, and Jennings has proved to be quite pesky at times (bringing back memories of Prigioni). Everyone else has been dogshit.
And this "effort" argument isn't even worth addressing.
He didn't have career high rebounds last year. He did assists tho. I didn't know a personal best qualified as relevant to a players relative strengths within the league tho...
This year his assist% is slightly below his career average. Rebounds% is around career average. So, this is really Melo's game apparently. If you want to look numbers.
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In comment 13242188 Anakim said:
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1 - Rose
2 - Lee
3 - Whomever
4 - Melo
5 - Porzingis
If you really believe Porzingis should be a fulltime 5 at this point in his career, you should stick to NFL mock drafts. Playing the 5 isn't predicated upon purely a player's height. God knows what your advice for Nowitzki would have been his first few years in the league.
Lmao.. true. KP isn't ready for the fulltime 5 role just yet. Noahs contract is an abysmal. But right now KP needs to lean on him for veteran leadership. Can't have KP out there banging with 5's every night.
Honestly, my main beef with the Noah contract is length, not salary. In a period where Mozgov and Mahinmi each got 16/yr, I'd gladly pay 18/yr for Noah. Just not for 4 years.
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In comment 13242195 Aspano! said:
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In comment 13242188 Anakim said:
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1 - Rose
2 - Lee
3 - Whomever
4 - Melo
5 - Porzingis
If you really believe Porzingis should be a fulltime 5 at this point in his career, you should stick to NFL mock drafts. Playing the 5 isn't predicated upon purely a player's height. God knows what your advice for Nowitzki would have been his first few years in the league.
Lmao.. true. KP isn't ready for the fulltime 5 role just yet. Noahs contract is an abysmal. But right now KP needs to lean on him for veteran leadership. Can't have KP out there banging with 5's every night.
Honestly, my main beef with the Noah contract is length, not salary. In a period where Mozgov and Mahinmi each got 16/yr, I'd gladly pay 18/yr for Noah. Just not for 4 years.
Especially if he's going to be riding the bench in between periods of mediocre play.
He can makes this Knicks team tough. But... his injury history is already not looking good so far this year. He's constantly out, his minutes are limited, and it looks like Plumlee, KP and HernanGomez look to be suitable.
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In comment 13242187 adamg said:
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In comment 13242182 Aspano! said:
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Before the game winner. An open 3 off a Jennings PnR that he airballed, and an elbow jumper - basically his bread and butter shot. He's in a shooting slump - it happens.
People give Melo shit for Iso-ing all the time, but there's a reason that it's been consistent throughout various coaches over the past 6 years. He's one of the best in the NBA at creating his own shot. Give him an inch and he'll hit the shot with a lot of consistency.
Go look at an interview with Paul Pierce from a few years ago where he named the toughest players he ever had to guard. Read the blurb on Melo. Knicks fans take what he brings to the team for granted.
And DESPITE EVERYTHING, Melo came into the game KNOWING that his shot was off. Throughout the entire 1st half, both Breen and Clyde were talking about how Melo wasn't even looking for his shot, and just trying to pass. The dude can't win.
Because of how 1 dimensional he is, that's true. If he can't shoot, he's worthless.
Yes, last year when he had career highs in rebounds and assists and played some of the best defense of his career, he proved his monodimensionality. I'll give you that his defense has been shit this year, but you can say that with everyone on the team this year. Rose has gotten better on D, Holiday has been great on that side, and Jennings has proved to be quite pesky at times (bringing back memories of Prigioni). Everyone else has been dogshit.
And this "effort" argument isn't even worth addressing.
He didn't have career high rebounds last year. He did assists tho. I didn't know a personal best qualified as relevant to a players relative strengths within the league tho...
This year his assist% is slightly below his career average. Rebounds% is around career average. So, this is really Melo's game apparently. If you want to look numbers.
Apologies, his 2nd highest rebounding numbers of his career, behind 13-14 when he had to fill in at the 4 most of the time to compensate for injuries to Chandler and Bargnani.
And his assist % percentage is down slightly from his career average, the same year that the Knicks brought in 2 PGs in the offseason? Nothing more than a coincidence. Melo doesn't adapt, remember?
Apologies, his 2nd highest rebounding numbers of his career, behind 13-14 when he had to fill in at the 4 most of the time to compensate for injuries to Chandler and Bargnani.
And his assist % percentage is down slightly from his career average, the same year that the Knicks brought in 2 PGs in the offseason? Nothing more than a coincidence. Melo doesn't adapt, remember?
You ignored my point, which was that this is career average for him, by the numbers. I wasn't dogging his as%
get a couple of games above 500
get a couple of games above 500
Outside Cleveland/Toronto it looks like every other spot is up for grabs. I don't think Boston is anything special unless they get a legit center by mid season.
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In comment 13242198 adamg said:
Apologies, his 2nd highest rebounding numbers of his career, behind 13-14 when he had to fill in at the 4 most of the time to compensate for injuries to Chandler and Bargnani.
And his assist % percentage is down slightly from his career average, the same year that the Knicks brought in 2 PGs in the offseason? Nothing more than a coincidence. Melo doesn't adapt, remember?
You ignored my point, which was that this is career average for him, by the numbers. I wasn't dogging his as%
I'm not sure what your point is, so if I ignored it - oops? Melo is never going to be a Lebron type playmaker. He's a phenomenal scorer, a great passer and a good rebounder. But his assist numbers will never increase dramatically, because his vision and passing is usually a product of how he's getting the ball on offense. Think more hockey assists than anything. And look at the game that Rose hit the game winner - Melo grabbing rebounds at the end basically made it happen. People say he's selfish, but he always does what he needs to do to help the team within the primary scorer mentality.
I don't think we're far off anyone's projections among Knicks fans who saw us as an in-the-playoffs-but-not-by-much team.
Can't tell you guys what to do, but a lot of vitriol spilled here among fans who should be pulling on the same rope.
I'm liking Hornacek as coach, and I think several of Phil's moves as GM have paid off. Players like Melo, Noah, Rose - they are not going to get either brain or body transplants, so don't engage in wishful thinking.
It's an interesting mix of young and old, US and international - that's what we've got, along with a likely low-seed playoff team.
Beats last year IMO ...
"kid, you don't have it tonight". Should of done the same with Melo on Saturday.
You are correct, but stealing a win on the road from a western conference team is always huge.
Its absolutely amazing that the TWolves are going to be in the lottery again. They need to trade Rubio ASAP. And hope they can land a Ball or Fox in the draft.
On the other hand, we've also lost some games this year due to aberrant 3 point shooting by opponents. Washington beat us by 7 shooting 15-25 from 3 (60%). If instead they had shot an insane 48%, they would have 9 less points and we could have won. If they had shot their season average 34.1% (even including our game), they might have scored 18 fewer points. Similarly, Detroit beat us by 13, shooting 8-13 from 3. If they had shot their season average 33.3%, it would have been a very close game.
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of the Dantoni era where every once in a while they would steal a win due to hitting a bunch of threes. I didn't come away from that game thinking they played all that well.
You are correct, but stealing a win on the road from a western conference team is always huge.
Its absolutely amazing that the TWolves are going to be in the lottery again. They need to trade Rubio ASAP. And hope they can land a Ball or Fox in the draft.
Im really not so amazed. Learning to win is part of the development curve. Knicks of the past several years have been in a lot of games and then the veteran good teams pull away in the last 2 minutes because they have been there, done that. Minny's Expected W-L per BBR is 8-10; I dont think the discrepancy is them being unlucky, I think it is inexperience in closing out.
It's also early for them and they have a new coach. They could get very hot (they have the talent). It's a very tough draw to get to they playoffs from 5-13, but I think there is a good shot that the 8th seed in the west is a few games under 500. If Portland falters/see injuries, it's a bunch of 7-11 or worse teams and the Lakers, who I dont buy as a 41 win squad.
towns shot more free throws than the entire knicks team..
Jennings never gets a call in the paint, never..it was a complete 1 sided officiated game
Because Im not as down on that trio as some, but it was clear to me that there were huge age/injury risks and no championship upside, so I advocated a sell off instead of acquisitions.
They are probably regretting the contract to Dieng right now. 16 million a year for a 4th option is steep plus he has not been as good defensively this year. I think eventually they are going to have to choose between Wiggins or Lavine as who to keep.
lavine did nothing, he is all flair with no substance..
rubio looks shot, looks like he doesnt care..
dunn looks dreadful
i really hope thibs does not run towns into the ground
who?
knicks do not have the cap space even if they let rose go, it is part of the reason i think knicks sign him to a 3 year deal and then noah, lee, rose and melo all expire same time and hopefully someone says i want to play with kp
lavine did nothing, he is all flair with no substance..
rubio looks shot, looks like he doesnt care..
dunn looks dreadful
i really hope thibs does not run towns into the ground
Dunn was suppose to NBA-ready, however having him sit behind Rubio has really slowed his progress down. I always felt Lavine would be a better PG than a SG, however he falls in love with the 3 point shot and forces it when he doesnt get attempts.
If they continue to lose, they have to trade Rubio. Well they should trade him anyways. However the protoypical PG that rubio is dying in the NBA. He cant shoot and doesnt have the speed to get to the basket or the foul line. I dont see where he fits on an NBA roster. I felt Philly was a good spot, but when Simmonds returns, he is going to be ball dominate. The Twolves were suppose to turn the corner and at this point, they have actually regressed.
1 for Isaiah. Needs about 1,000 more to catch up to jordan trolling. How's that 1992 gold medal working on for Zeke?
Yup that was real.
It's sometimes hard to remember that Thomas was an IU grad. All his accomplishments came decades before I was even born, let alone went to IU. Caused so much misery for me as a Knicks fan and I didn't get to enjoy any of his success as an IU fan. Woe is me.
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Is maybe we can get a young star to bite on Rose's salary slot next year cause that player would have KP to team up with for years to come.
knicks do not have the cap space even if they let rose go, it is part of the reason i think knicks sign him to a 3 year deal and then noah, lee, rose and melo all expire same time and hopefully someone says i want to play with kp
Im not advocating that, but if that goes down (note Melo expires a year earlier), the best FAs in 2020 will be the players from the 2012 draft who have opt outs, and the ones from the 2011 draft who dont.
2012ers: Davis and Lilliard have no opt outs, Drummond and Draymond do so they will be FAs.
2011ers: Basically all the good ones come free a year earlier (Butler, Kawhi, Klay, Kyrie, Kemba, Baby Zeke (2018). Reggie Jackson comes free in 2020; but note that he came in a little older than most, so his next deal will mostly cover his early 30s.
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wiggins did nothing except for hitting a couple of open shots, his d was good on melo but nothing crazy..
lavine did nothing, he is all flair with no substance..
rubio looks shot, looks like he doesnt care..
dunn looks dreadful
i really hope thibs does not run towns into the ground
Dunn was suppose to NBA-ready, however having him sit behind Rubio has really slowed his progress down. I always felt Lavine would be a better PG than a SG, however he falls in love with the 3 point shot and forces it when he doesnt get attempts.
If they continue to lose, they have to trade Rubio. Well they should trade him anyways. However the protoypical PG that rubio is dying in the NBA. He cant shoot and doesnt have the speed to get to the basket or the foul line. I dont see where he fits on an NBA roster. I felt Philly was a good spot, but when Simmonds returns, he is going to be ball dominate. The Twolves were suppose to turn the corner and at this point, they have actually regressed.
I personally thought Dunn was very raw for a junior in college. He has upside but I think he fits better as a good bench guard. But so does Rubio.
I kind of disagree with them having to choose between Wiggins and Lavine. I don't think Wiggins is suited as a ball dominant player. He's still a poor dribbler and looks to jack up step backs/fadeways instead of playing within an offense. I think he can be very, very good if he stays off the ball.
Despite all of Lavines 3 point jacking he's still shooting 37% on 6.5 3s a game. Nothing impressive but there are games he can win you when he's hot. He's very streaky but he's about a pure shooter as you'll see in basketball.
Wolves will need to make a trade one way or another. Something like Dunn/Dieng for Noel. The future starting PG for this wolves team is currently not on the roster IMO.
Such as who? Who were all these top guys that we couldn't get a meeting with? Only one I can think of is Aldridge and we made it clear that we wanted him at the 5 and if not, let's not waste time. Please list.
Key point. Whereas I believe that in a few years, KP + a few high picks + the Melo return would have had us either in the convo with FAs or in a position to make a trade for someone.
Give KP a lead guard (say a Wall, who I think is dying to leave), plus say Noel when he becomes a free agent and 3&Ds at the wing slots (trying to be realistic) and you have a title competitive team I think.
Jennings I believe said he got no other offers. Not sure that anyone was offering Noah materially more. Lee is a depth starter.
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free agents has proven to be a dicey approach. So far Phil and all of his rings hasn't even been able to get meetings with the top tier guys, let alone sign them.
Such as who? Who were all these top guys that we couldn't get a meeting with? Only one I can think of is Aldridge and we made it clear that we wanted him at the 5 and if not, let's not waste time. Please list.
LMA, Horford, Durant. Durant was taking meetings IN NEW YORK and Phil couldn't even get in to see him. And then you had Mills trying to spin it after the fact. It's pathetic. Of the top guys who've been free agents, have any of them even considered the Knicks? Deandre is the only one I can think of where it was even mentioned that the Knicks were in the running. Even the lower tier guys like Monroe have spurned him.
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In comment 13242425 nygiants16 said:
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wiggins did nothing except for hitting a couple of open shots, his d was good on melo but nothing crazy..
lavine did nothing, he is all flair with no substance..
rubio looks shot, looks like he doesnt care..
dunn looks dreadful
i really hope thibs does not run towns into the ground
Dunn was suppose to NBA-ready, however having him sit behind Rubio has really slowed his progress down. I always felt Lavine would be a better PG than a SG, however he falls in love with the 3 point shot and forces it when he doesnt get attempts.
If they continue to lose, they have to trade Rubio. Well they should trade him anyways. However the protoypical PG that rubio is dying in the NBA. He cant shoot and doesnt have the speed to get to the basket or the foul line. I dont see where he fits on an NBA roster. I felt Philly was a good spot, but when Simmonds returns, he is going to be ball dominate. The Twolves were suppose to turn the corner and at this point, they have actually regressed.
I personally thought Dunn was very raw for a junior in college. He has upside but I think he fits better as a good bench guard. But so does Rubio.
I kind of disagree with them having to choose between Wiggins and Lavine. I don't think Wiggins is suited as a ball dominant player. He's still a poor dribbler and looks to jack up step backs/fadeways instead of playing within an offense. I think he can be very, very good if he stays off the ball.
Despite all of Lavines 3 point jacking he's still shooting 37% on 6.5 3s a game. Nothing impressive but there are games he can win you when he's hot. He's very streaky but he's about a pure shooter as you'll see in basketball.
Wolves will need to make a trade one way or another. Something like Dunn/Dieng for Noel. The future starting PG for this wolves team is currently not on the roster IMO.
At this rate they may be in the mix for a draft heavy PG. Ball, Fox, Fultz, and Smith are all top 10 already.
noah there were rumors of other teams but i dont know how true they were, noah never really mentioned other teams
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In comment 13242479 Enzo said:
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free agents has proven to be a dicey approach. So far Phil and all of his rings hasn't even been able to get meetings with the top tier guys, let alone sign them.
Such as who? Who were all these top guys that we couldn't get a meeting with? Only one I can think of is Aldridge and we made it clear that we wanted him at the 5 and if not, let's not waste time. Please list.
LMA, Horford, Durant. Durant was taking meetings IN NEW YORK and Phil couldn't even get in to see him. And then you had Mills trying to spin it after the fact. It's pathetic. Of the top guys who've been free agents, have any of them even considered the Knicks? Deandre is the only one I can think of where it was even mentioned that the Knicks were in the running. Even the lower tier guys like Monroe have spurned him.
horford? who cares he is so overrated it is unbelievable..
durant if you remember was with melo for a lot of his time in new york before his meetings, i am glad the knicks did not waste their time of he had no interest...
monroe is a thank god the knicks did not sign him and phil offered him less than the max, he would have been an awful fit
noah there were rumors of other teams but i dont know how true they were, noah never really mentioned other teams
Only other team I really heard tied to Noah was Minnesota and that was because thibs was there. Would've made very little sense for them to give Noah anywhere near that much. They passed on Luol Deng as well.
who was offering Noah more money? As for Jennings, here's a direct quote:
A: Jennings: Actually I didnt get any offers from any other team but New York.
bahahahaha....
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jennings they gave 5 million to so they have some rights to try and resign him, they tried trading for him to get his bird righta but couldnt get it done..
noah there were rumors of other teams but i dont know how true they were, noah never really mentioned other teams
Only other team I really heard tied to Noah was Minnesota and that was because thibs was there. Would've made very little sense for them to give Noah anywhere near that much. They passed on Luol Deng as well.
yeah noah i do think the knicks over bid..
everyone makes him out to be a superstar, he is nowhere near auperstar status
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Whether you like the contracts or not and whether you would have gone in a different direction or not, he signed a few guys that were sought after elsewhere and were being offered more elsewhere. Noah, Jennings and Lee.
who was offering Noah more money? As for Jennings, here's a direct quote:
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Q: What other teams were interested in you?
A: Jennings: Actually I didnt get any offers from any other team but New York.
bahahahaha....
they gave him 5 million for a reason and is actually a smart reason
i dont think noah is worth 18 million...
enzo mentioned him in the same breathe as durant, and i just laugh at that
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Overrated??
everyone makes him out to be a superstar, he is nowhere near auperstar status
Well im not sure who is calling Horford a superstar, I've never heard that. He's a very, very good player but he's not a center unless you have like Serge Ibaka or Anthony Davis playing PF.
Because Minny wasn't willing to offer anything close to $70M...
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but he made it clear he wanted to come to NY.
Because Minny wasn't willing to offer anything close to $70M...
or 4 years. Or even a starting spot. With KAT an da committment to Dieng, they had no room for Noah other than to be a bench big.
so the only other team in the league that wanted him has Scott Layden prominently involved? That's just brilliant. And here you have a guy in Noah who by all accounts desperately wanted to come here - maybe you try and get him for less than 4 guaranteed years? Just a thought.
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In comment 13242517 giantsfan44ab said:
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Overrated??
everyone makes him out to be a superstar, he is nowhere near auperstar status
Well im not sure who is calling Horford a superstar, I've never heard that. He's a very, very good player but he's not a center unless you have like Serge Ibaka or Anthony Davis playing PF.
enzo just mentioned him durants category as freee agents..
and everyone in media said signing horford put celtics over the top..
$70 fucking million dollars!
Holy shit.
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A very poor fit because it wouldn't have really helped the Knicks interior defense or rebounding issues. But if $18M a year for Noah is worth it then Horford should be getting paid $40M a year easy.
i dont think noah is worth 18 million...
enzo mentioned him in the same breathe as durant, and i just laugh at that
if you think my point was to say Horford is as good as Durant you're lost. Regardless, I take Horford at the full max over what we gave Noah any day of the week. And that's not exactly going out on a limb. Most people with a working brain would as well.
and everyone in media said signing horford put celtics over the top..
Hence why I dont listen to the media. He would have been better off going to OKC.
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In comment 13242493 Keith said:
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Whether you like the contracts or not and whether you would have gone in a different direction or not, he signed a few guys that were sought after elsewhere and were being offered more elsewhere. Noah, Jennings and Lee.
who was offering Noah more money? As for Jennings, here's a direct quote:
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Q: What other teams were interested in you?
A: Jennings: Actually I didnt get any offers from any other team but New York.
bahahahaha....
they gave him 5 million for a reason and is actually a smart reason
yes, it was a smart deal. For Jennings. Phil/Mills seem to love giving out deals where all of the upside is with the player.
if they gave him the minimum they had no chance..
and as for horford you just said that phil could not get meetings with superstars and then mentioned horford..
so you would rather have horford than lee and noah?
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In comment 13242527 giantsfan44ab said:
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A very poor fit because it wouldn't have really helped the Knicks interior defense or rebounding issues. But if $18M a year for Noah is worth it then Horford should be getting paid $40M a year easy.
i dont think noah is worth 18 million...
enzo mentioned him in the same breathe as durant, and i just laugh at that
if you think my point was to say Horford is as good as Durant you're lost. Regardless, I take Horford at the full max over what we gave Noah any day of the week. And that's not exactly going out on a limb. Most people with a working brain would as well.
I mean I agree with this. Certainly rather have Horford on his deal than Noah.
Would've much rather had Dwight howard at his current number than either of those 2 and I still retain that stance.
if they gave him the minimum they had no chance..
and as for horford you just said that phil could not get meetings with superstars and then mentioned horford..
so you would rather have horford than lee and noah?
Yes. Especially seeing how serviceable Justin Holiday is now. But that's hindsight. But still yes without even knowing that.
Can a guy like that be the best player on a title team? Absolutely not. But maybe the 2nd best and certainly if he is the 3rd best then you're the #1 or #2 title favorite.
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because now if they want to keep jennings they have a competitive offer they can give him..
if they gave him the minimum they had no chance..
and as for horford you just said that phil could not get meetings with superstars and then mentioned horford..
so you would rather have horford than lee and noah?
Yes. Especially seeing how serviceable Justin Holiday is now. But that's hindsight. But still yes without even knowing that.
so you would take horford only playing 8 games and averaging 14 and 6 on a max deal?
Noah isnt getting killed because he's hurt (though it plays strongly into the condemnation of the contract). He's getting killed because he's averaging 22 minutes and 4 points. Dreadful.
Horford missed 9 of those games because of a concussion and the other one because of his wife delivering a kid. If you're gonna use that to compare To Noah's fragile limbs, something that has troubled him for years past you're fighting a losing argument. He played 82 games last year 76 the year before. If you're gonna contend he has recurring concussion issues that was known before coming in then I don't know what to say.
Also conveniently leaving off he has 5 assists per game this year which is incredible and not a fluke given his passing ability over the years. Also shootin 38% from 3.
if they gave him the minimum they had no chance..
what competitive offer? If Jennings has a good season, he's not coming back for the tiny raise they can give him off the $5 million.
learn to read. I said "top tier free agents". Of the guys who were unrestricted, Hoford was clearly near the top of the list last summer.
that's not the only choice the front office was presented with last summer.
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he would be getting killed like noah is, he is getting max money and has missed 10 games and is averaging 15 and 6, that is worth max money?
Horford missed 9 of those games because of a concussion and the other one because of his wife delivering a kid. If you're gonna use that to compare To Noah's fragile limbs, something that has troubled him for years past you're fighting a losing argument. He played 82 games last year 76 the year before. If you're gonna contend he has recurring concussion issues that was known before coming in then I don't know what to say.
Also conveniently leaving off he has 5 assists per game this year which is incredible and not a fluke given his passing ability over the years. Also shootin 38% from 3.
but for a player making max money that is what you want? again if he was in new york you dont think he would be getting killed?
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he would be getting killed like noah is, he is getting max money and has missed 10 games and is averaging 15 and 6, that is worth max money?
Noah isnt getting killed because he's hurt (though it plays strongly into the condemnation of the contract). He's getting killed because he's averaging 22 minutes and 4 points. Dreadful.
i am not comparing the 2 for reasons they are getting killed..
noah is getting killed because he has not fit in on offense and looks a step slow on defense...
horford would get killed for averaging the numbers he is and making max money
thats not what i said, do not spin my words..
you dont pay him 30 million to average 14 points and only grab 6 rebounds , the assists are great but you are paying him to be your 2nd superstar and he is not that..
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In comment 13242556 nygiants16 said:
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he would be getting killed like noah is, he is getting max money and has missed 10 games and is averaging 15 and 6, that is worth max money?
Horford missed 9 of those games because of a concussion and the other one because of his wife delivering a kid. If you're gonna use that to compare To Noah's fragile limbs, something that has troubled him for years past you're fighting a losing argument. He played 82 games last year 76 the year before. If you're gonna contend he has recurring concussion issues that was known before coming in then I don't know what to say.
Also conveniently leaving off he has 5 assists per game this year which is incredible and not a fluke given his passing ability over the years. Also shootin 38% from 3.
but for a player making max money that is what you want? again if he was in new york you dont think he would be getting killed?
If he was averaging the same stats? 100% no. I think they'd have rebounding issues and paint protection issues (which they have both of right now) but you don't sign Horford to dominate the defensive interior.
Him gettin the max was the cost of doing business. If Mozgov and Noah are making 60% of what Horford is making then Horford is worth every penny and then some.
if kp became al horford for his career, woukd you be happy?
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Is some fortune changing superstar but he's certainly an all star and he may be having his best season to date. I think he's been giving Boston everything they paid him for. Sure, they don't pay him $30M to get elbowed in the head and miss games because of a concussion. He should tough it out at all costs...
thats not what i said, do not spin my words..
you dont pay him 30 million to average 14 points and only grab 6 rebounds , the assists are great but you are paying him to be your 2nd superstar and he is not that..
I'm not spinning your words. You're killing him for missing 10 games like Noah. Why is Horford missing games? Because of a concussion. Does he have historic concussion problems? No. Was it a freak accident that happens to players every few weeks? Yes.
Why is Noah missing games? Random fucking ankle/shoulder/whatever dings. Has that been an issue for him in the past? Most definetly.
Horford isn't worth the max in the usual sense but how else would've Boston made any improvements? If they didn't give him $30M Atlanta would've retained him for $5-7M less a year (what they have D12 pretty much). But given the Mike Conley got the highest paid contract in league history Horfords contract isn't that ludicrous.
It was the cost of doing business to get an all star player for Boston. What else should they have done after whiffing on KD?
if kp became al horford for his career, woukd you be happy?
Why is KP being brought into this?
My point is Horfords production/Horfords contract >>> Noah's production/Noah's contract.
do i like the noah contract? absolutely not and i would of hated the horford contract as well..
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but he is a complimentary piece, he is not a superstar player, he is not a second option, he is a 3rd or 4th..
if kp became al horford for his career, woukd you be happy?
Why is KP being brought into this?
My point is Horfords production/Horfords contract >>> Noah's production/Noah's contract.
my point was he is not a superstar, so my question was if kp turns into horford would you be happy?
and i am not going to compare noah with horford, because i did nkt want either one for the contracts they got
Noah spent Monday night getting pushed around by Adams and Kanter...and somehow managed to collect ZERO defensive rebounds in 26 mins. So yeah, it could have happened and probably would have happened.
but we got the guy who can make nifty passes from the pinch post!
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he has games where he is flat out awful. And games where he tunes it up and plays like the Noah of the past. Last night, KAT goes for 47/19. That would not have happened if Noah played.
Noah spent Monday night getting pushed around by Adams and Kanter...and somehow managed to collect ZERO defensive rebounds in 26 mins. So yeah, it could have happened and probably would have happened.
You're treating every game as if they are the same. He stunk against the Thunder but had some of his best games against Drummond (premier big), Bulls (former team), Raptors (top team in the east).
I know its a poor way to judge a player, but Ive seen it for years with Rose and Noah. They tend to pick it up in games they want. Going against KAT and Thibs would have brought out a pretty good Noah, IMO.
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2.5 blocks a game, and is a very efficient, low usage player. 14 points on .600 TS%. Orating 122 D Rating 106. Great passer, checks all the boxes on advanced and box score metrics. Noah is not even in Hortfords stratosphere as a player at this stage in his career.
but we got the guy who can make nifty passes from the pinch post!
so you would be happy with horford making 30 million on the knicks?
I'm with you that Horford is not a superstar but did you expect Horford to make significant strides in his game at age 30 to play on par with his contract ? I don't think Boston is delusional in their expectations for him. It's exactly what the Knicks did with Courtney Lee. Lee is the most average SG in the NBA and for $15M a year. I don't think the Knicks were expecting him to become Dwayne Wade. They are getting exactly what any logical person would expect out of Lee. Same with Boston and Horford.
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In comment 13242579 giantsfan44ab said:
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Is some fortune changing superstar but he's certainly an all star and he may be having his best season to date. I think he's been giving Boston everything they paid him for. Sure, they don't pay him $30M to get elbowed in the head and miss games because of a concussion. He should tough it out at all costs...
thats not what i said, do not spin my words..
you dont pay him 30 million to average 14 points and only grab 6 rebounds , the assists are great but you are paying him to be your 2nd superstar and he is not that..
I'm not spinning your words. You're killing him for missing 10 games like Noah. Why is Horford missing games? Because of a concussion. Does he have historic concussion problems? No. Was it a freak accident that happens to players every few weeks? Yes.
Why is Noah missing games? Random fucking ankle/shoulder/whatever dings. Has that been an issue for him in the past? Most definetly.
Horford isn't worth the max in the usual sense but how else would've Boston made any improvements? If they didn't give him $30M Atlanta would've retained him for $5-7M less a year (what they have D12 pretty much). But given the Mike Conley got the highest paid contract in league history Horfords contract isn't that ludicrous.
It was the cost of doing business to get an all star player for Boston. What else should they have done after whiffing on KD?
Noah has missed 3 games out of 18. Horford has missed half the season so far. Keep in mind that these dings so far this season (ankle, illness) have nothing to do with prior injuries.
Noah's defense hasn't been great, and his offense was never going to be a strength. But he's an excellent passer and rebounder, and the team is better with him on the court versus off the court. He will almost definitely improve his rim protection, and as I've said many a time - if Mozgov and Mahinmi are getting 16M/yr, then I RUN to give Noah 18M/yr.
ainge is turning into the next morey, chasing the next superstar
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In comment 13242588 nygiants16 said:
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but he is a complimentary piece, he is not a superstar player, he is not a second option, he is a 3rd or 4th..
if kp became al horford for his career, woukd you be happy?
Why is KP being brought into this?
My point is Horfords production/Horfords contract >>> Noah's production/Noah's contract.
my point was he is not a superstar, so my question was if kp turns into horford would you be happy?
and i am not going to compare noah with horford, because i did nkt want either one for the contracts they got
KP's ceiling has nothing to do with Horford's abilities. WTF? Would you be happy is KP grew his hair back into braids? Because that question is about as relevant as what you're throwing out there.
The Knicks did win...
I hope that's a pleasant surprise?
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In comment 13242605 Sgrcts said:
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2.5 blocks a game, and is a very efficient, low usage player. 14 points on .600 TS%. Orating 122 D Rating 106. Great passer, checks all the boxes on advanced and box score metrics. Noah is not even in Hortfords stratosphere as a player at this stage in his career.
but we got the guy who can make nifty passes from the pinch post!
so you would be happy with horford making 30 million on the knicks?
Yes. Horford at 4/113 is a safer bet and a smarter signing going forward than Noah at 4/72.
one is on a 1 year deal the other is on a 4 year deal, big difference..
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You're ok with paying Rose 27 Mill a year but you think Hortford at 30 is a problem? Hortford is a SIGNIFICANTLY better NBA player then Rose right now. Yes, I'd be 100% ok with paying Al 30 mil a year in this NBA.
one is on a 1 year deal the other is on a 4 year deal, big difference..
I think he's referring to the potential extension rose is getting. And I'd have to say I'd agree with him.
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You're ok with paying Rose 27 Mill a year but you think Hortford at 30 is a problem? Hortford is a SIGNIFICANTLY better NBA player then Rose right now. Yes, I'd be 100% ok with paying Al 30 mil a year in this NBA.
one is on a 1 year deal the other is on a 4 year deal, big difference..
was it you or someone else advocating for an extension for Rose at something around those numbers?
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In comment 13242612 Enzo said:
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In comment 13242605 Sgrcts said:
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2.5 blocks a game, and is a very efficient, low usage player. 14 points on .600 TS%. Orating 122 D Rating 106. Great passer, checks all the boxes on advanced and box score metrics. Noah is not even in Hortfords stratosphere as a player at this stage in his career.
but we got the guy who can make nifty passes from the pinch post!
so you would be happy with horford making 30 million on the knicks?
Yes. Horford at 4/113 is a safer bet and a smarter signing going forward than Noah at 4/72.
forget noah..
horford on his own, 30 million you would be happy?
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In comment 13242633 Sgrcts said:
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You're ok with paying Rose 27 Mill a year but you think Hortford at 30 is a problem? Hortford is a SIGNIFICANTLY better NBA player then Rose right now. Yes, I'd be 100% ok with paying Al 30 mil a year in this NBA.
one is on a 1 year deal the other is on a 4 year deal, big difference..
was it you or someone else advocating for an extension for Rose at something around those numbers?
i said later in the season if the team picks up and he plays better but right now no i would not resign him
The problem is that most people just look at the raw numbers and say "that's a bad deal," which is idiotic considering the cap jump this past offseason. Now, the cap isn't expected to increase nearly as much this coming offseason (last I saw was a $102M projection), but that doesn't change the fact that each contract should be looked at in the context of percentage of cap. It becomes even more true when you take into account that max contracts are literally defined as a percentage of the cap for that year.
RoLo's deal was signed at approximately 18.5% of the cap for that year. Noah's deal represented 19.1% of the cap this year. Now, we can argue the matter of RoLo's value versus Noah's, but that's not a discussion I'm trying to rehash. Noah's deal isn't bad based on salary - it's bad based on length of contract. But even then, it won't be an albatross given cap increases in the 3rd and 4th year.
Damn that's pretty cool. Being an NBA GM honestly sounds trivial compared to the rest of his resume.
The problem is that most people just look at the raw numbers and say "that's a bad deal," which is idiotic considering the cap jump this past offseason. Now, the cap isn't expected to increase nearly as much this coming offseason (last I saw was a $102M projection), but that doesn't change the fact that each contract should be looked at in the context of percentage of cap. It becomes even more true when you take into account that max contracts are literally defined as a percentage of the cap for that year.
RoLo's deal was signed at approximately 18.5% of the cap for that year. Noah's deal represented 19.1% of the cap this year. Now, we can argue the matter of RoLo's value versus Noah's, but that's not a discussion I'm trying to rehash. Noah's deal isn't bad based on salary - it's bad based on length of contract. But even then, it won't be an albatross given cap increases in the 3rd and 4th year.
Yes I think it is extremely bad both in length and salary. On a roster basis, how does this team improve going forward? Getting a better PG? We are likely going to keep Rose. Where else can we make improvements? Upgrade on Melo and KP? No. then upgrade where? SG and center would be the easy way to upgrade the roster. But oh wait, lee and Noah are on contract for 4 years. This is the team the Knicks are going to rely on to improve each year.
The problem is that most people just look at the raw numbers and say "that's a bad deal," which is idiotic considering the cap jump this past offseason. Now, the cap isn't expected to increase nearly as much this coming offseason (last I saw was a $102M projection), but that doesn't change the fact that each contract should be looked at in the context of percentage of cap. It becomes even more true when you take into account that max contracts are literally defined as a percentage of the cap for that year.
RoLo's deal was signed at approximately 18.5% of the cap for that year. Noah's deal represented 19.1% of the cap this year. Now, we can argue the matter of RoLo's value versus Noah's, but that's not a discussion I'm trying to rehash. Noah's deal isn't bad based on salary - it's bad based on length of contract. But even then, it won't be an albatross given cap increases in the 3rd and 4th year.
Yes I think it is extremely bad both in length and salary. On a roster basis, how does this team improve going forward? Getting a better PG? We are likely going to keep Rose. Where else can we make improvements? Upgrade on Melo and KP? No. then upgrade where? SG and center would be the easy way to upgrade the roster. But oh wait, lee and Noah are on contract for 4 years. This is the team the Knicks are going to rely on to improve each year.
The problem is that most people just look at the raw numbers and say "that's a bad deal," which is idiotic considering the cap jump this past offseason. Now, the cap isn't expected to increase nearly as much this coming offseason (last I saw was a $102M projection), but that doesn't change the fact that each contract should be looked at in the context of percentage of cap. It becomes even more true when you take into account that max contracts are literally defined as a percentage of the cap for that year.
RoLo's deal was signed at approximately 18.5% of the cap for that year. Noah's deal represented 19.1% of the cap this year. Now, we can argue the matter of RoLo's value versus Noah's, but that's not a discussion I'm trying to rehash. Noah's deal isn't bad based on salary - it's bad based on length of contract. But even then, it won't be an albatross given cap increases in the 3rd and 4th year.
Many here and in the media had questions about Noah's health and his viability as an effective NBA player going forward. On that basis, his deal is most certainly a potential albatross based on salary. And yeah, the length sucks too.
Porzingis speaks better English than Francesa
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Why would the Warriors,clippers or Cavs trade for cousins? Is that a legit rumor or did some guy make up a scenario?
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Yuck. Cousins for DeAndre Jordan is an awful deal for Sac Link - ( New Window )
Why would the Warriors,clippers or Cavs trade for cousins? Is that a legit rumor or did some guy make up a scenario?
The claim is the Kings are going to move Cousins
Chris Copeland signs with Tofas Bursa.
Turkish squad Tofas Bursa agreed to terms with Copeland, as reported by Eurohoops. The forward returns to Europe after four seasons in the NBA with the Knicks, Pacers and Bucks.
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In comment 13243243 DanMetroMan said:
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Yuck. Cousins for DeAndre Jordan is an awful deal for Sac Link - ( New Window )
Why would the Warriors,clippers or Cavs trade for cousins? Is that a legit rumor or did some guy make up a scenario?
The claim is the Kings are going to move Cousins
I don't doubt that he'll be in a different city come season end. I just doubt that the 3 top teams would make a move like that. I guess LAC has a case and obviously Cleveland would probably be better off with Cousins then Love. Not sure id rather have cousins over Draymond as the 3rd option.
Anyways, I know Sacramento will get 70 cents on the dollar for cousins, but I still think they could get a better haul then just Love/Deandre Jordan. I mean Boston has Brooklyn picks they'd throw at a chance to get cousins.
Clippers make a lot of sense because they have good veteran leadership and Paul will get him the ball plenty.
Warriors? I can't see it. They need role players around their two best players and they have some of the best role players in the game in Green and Thompson.
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That's been my take on cousins over the years. But i think if there was one man that could get to him it would be popovich. But if there's were two men that could get to him the other would be Stevens.
Chris Copeland signs with Tofas Bursa.
that was LT, he was the one who did that annoying Copesanity bit.
Ho-hum, just another 23-8 boards-8 assists-4 steals-2 blocks-0 TO on 50% shooting night for the Greek Freak.
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Chris Copeland signs with Tofas Bursa.
that was LT, he was the one who did that annoying Copesanity bit.
Ho-hum, just another 23-8 boards-8 assists-4 steals-2 blocks-0 TO on 50% shooting night for the Greek Freak.
You see hisbperformance against Cleveland?
He was raw but the talent was undeniable.
KAT and Wiggins were NBA ready. Lavine had elite athleticism. They are lacking a little depth and one starting position.
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is someone to keep in mind if you're inclined to ask why the Twolves arent suddenly a powerhouse. Player development takes time. Team development too.
He was raw but the talent was undeniable.
KAT and Wiggins were NBA ready. Lavine had elite athleticism. They are lacking a little depth and one starting position.
What does NBA ready really mean though? Most players still years to get to peak performance.
@TommyBeer
Porzingis is averaging 1.27 points per possession as the roll man in pick-&-rolls. That's the 2nd high PPP among players w/ > 40 possesions
Really strange that Rose seemingly hasn't found a way to make this work with Zinger. That combo could be really hard to defend for anyone if they got some chemistry.
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is someone to keep in mind if you're inclined to ask why the Twolves arent suddenly a powerhouse. Player development takes time. Team development too.
He was raw but the talent was undeniable.
KAT and Wiggins were NBA ready. Lavine had elite athleticism. They are lacking a little depth and one starting position.
Hmm if you watched Wiggins at Kansas I'm not sure you could call him "NBA ready".
Even if you call someone "NBA ready" I'm not sure that means their ceiling is any lower or that it takes them any less time to reach that ceiling.
I'd argue that Giannis had more Nba ready skills coming into the league. He was a much better ball handler and passer than Wiggins coming in. Wiggins couldn't really shoot at all, much of his scoring came from cuts/putbacks and straight line drives in college.
That's true, but I don't think that changes the overall point. Wiggins is expected to be the best player on the team and he's pretty much the same age as KP. And it's not necessarily his offense, it's his defense.
How many guys come into the league contribute as impact defenders at age 21? Now try building a defense with 2 other 20 year olds (one who is expected to anchor the defense and the other who had major defensive flaws but has the physical tools to become capable).
Thibs may or may not be a good coach but it's certainly unfair to judge the future of this team when two of the core guys can't even get beer from a liquor store. Circle back to when they are 25-26 and if they still are winning 40% of their games then there's a problem. I don't see the rush to determine whether this team is going to be a powerhouse right now when they can theoretically keep this team together for at least 7 more years.
I don't see how Minnesota or Philly can be used as examples to judge whether tanking is a viable option to build a team. It's an extremely long process with a very long term view and they are both being judged in year 3-4. Yeah, that's long as fans of a team but that's not how the procsss works. No one who advocates tanking says to only pay players you drafted. The first step is to acquire young talent. Check for both teams. The second is to sign good veterans while the young guys are on their rookie deals. Neither team has gotten to that step yet. Philly will be forced to very soon. Minnesota still has a few years to worry about that.
The problem with the NBA is you got to show results sooner rather than later. A team like Philly gets extended due to..
1. Being bad
2. Top picks being hurt (embiid, noel, now simmons)
3. Major holes on roster.
Minny is in another boat. This is year 3 of Wiggins and Levine. Year 4 for Dieng. Rubio has been around for years. And their best player is only 21. They have to be better than 5-12. Losing is contagious. Their starting 5, while not being able to compete against the Warriors, clippers, or spurs - should at least compete with the rest of the conference.
Can they turn it around by the end of the year and make the playoffs? I still believe they can. They absolutely will get better. But they have to be by far the most disappointing team in the NBA this year.
But it's just like if they're bad, so what? At the rate they are progressing, they have what looks to be 3 25 PPG scorers on their hands. Why not wait it out for a few years and if they still suck then consider other options. They're gonna have no shortage of suitors for Wiggins and Lavine (assuming towns will be the guy to keep).
that is my worry with the knicks that rose and melo can not adapt to being effecient acorers rather than volume...kp is effecient because he plays so well catch and shoot
That was KD's 3rd season. If you think of KAT as the central star of the Wolves (I do), it's fair to compare his 2nd season to KD's 2nd season where they won 23 games with a rookie RW and no Harden (ie I think KAT has a better cast).
It will be troubling if they dont finish strong and have a good 2017-18. But with a new coach Im not sweating this year if I was a Minny fan.
KAT and Wiggins plus crew being a year more mature and experienced. I dont think they need to win 50 games, but they're losing at a worse rate than last year, and that's pretty surprising. That should be adding at least 5-10 wins based on maturity alone I think.
they added a supposed big time cosch and another year with their talent, they should be playing much better
I don't think OKC is the end all be all comparison. We're talking about 3 potential HoF guys. I think towns' ceiling is damn near unlimited but I don't think it's a sure thing he'all be as good as KD or Westbrook (looks like he has a good chance though).
How about the Warriors? They didn't crack 40 wins until Steph's 5th season (klays 2nd). Even then it required shuffling around (getting bogut and then iggy after). I don't think you can set an specific time frame for any young team.
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The 09-10 Thunder won 50 games with KD and Westbrook at 21 and Harden at 20.
I don't think OKC is the end all be all comparison. We're talking about 3 potential HoF guys. I think towns' ceiling is damn near unlimited but I don't think it's a sure thing he'all be as good as KD or Westbrook (looks like he has a good chance though).
How about the Warriors? They didn't crack 40 wins until Steph's 5th season (klays 2nd). Even then it required shuffling around (getting bogut and then iggy after). I don't think you can set an specific time frame for any young team.
warriors got much better and took that next step when draymond green came in and blew away expectations
GS is another apt comparison. It took Curry thru his rookie deal to really become elite (IIRC).
Well, I guess it's the difference in expectations. I can see the room for them to be much better but that doesn't make it fair to expect it. They basically added a top pick, who has struggled mightily. The rest is based on Thibs and another year under their belt? Ok, I can see how they can be expected to be better, but how much? 7-11 instead of 5-13? It's a stretch to say that they should definitely compete for a playoff spot. That's a lot of onus on some really guys who have so far flashed highlights and piled up stats in losses. They have no veteran leadership. That bench is pretty bad, too.
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with all the athleticism on their team
Well, I guess it's the difference in expectations. I can see the room for them to be much better but that doesn't make it fair to expect it. They basically added a top pick, who has struggled mightily. The rest is based on Thibs and another year under their belt? Ok, I can see how they can be expected to be better, but how much? 7-11 instead of 5-13? It's a stretch to say that they should definitely compete for a playoff spot. That's a lot of onus on some really guys who have so far flashed highlights and piled up stats in losses. They have no veteran leadership. That bench is pretty bad, too.
The bench part can't be stressed enough. Especially if you consider that Rubio and Dieng as plus bench guys and not starters on a good team.
Ny16 that brings back to my point, when have 20 year olds been impact defenders regardless of athleticism? Deandre Jordan is as about of a good of an athlete as they come in the NBA and it took him a good 6 years before becoming one of the premier defensive anchors in the league. He was fairly below average for the first 3-4 years as well. Kawhi was a stiff coming into the league and needed to be seasoned for a good 4 years before realizing his defensive potential. Anthony Davis was just a damn good shot blocker for the first few years. Same with ibaka. Ibaka wasn't very good at actual help defense until the last few years. I could go on and on. You see young guys make all star teams but how many actually make all defensive teams in the NBA.
Defense in the NBA is simply really, really hard.
This team should be at least .500 fighting for a playoff spot.
This team should be at least .500 fighting for a playoff spot.
Dunn has been even worse than Rubio. It's probably right to invest in him for the long term but that might have even made their start worse than it is.
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In comment 13244384 nygiants16 said:
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with all the athleticism on their team
Well, I guess it's the difference in expectations. I can see the room for them to be much better but that doesn't make it fair to expect it. They basically added a top pick, who has struggled mightily. The rest is based on Thibs and another year under their belt? Ok, I can see how they can be expected to be better, but how much? 7-11 instead of 5-13? It's a stretch to say that they should definitely compete for a playoff spot. That's a lot of onus on some really guys who have so far flashed highlights and piled up stats in losses. They have no veteran leadership. That bench is pretty bad, too.
The bench part can't be stressed enough. Especially if you consider that Rubio and Dieng as plus bench guys and not starters on a good team.
Ny16 that brings back to my point, when have 20 year olds been impact defenders regardless of athleticism? Deandre Jordan is as about of a good of an athlete as they come in the NBA and it took him a good 6 years before becoming one of the premier defensive anchors in the league. He was fairly below average for the first 3-4 years as well. Kawhi was a stiff coming into the league and needed to be seasoned for a good 4 years before realizing his defensive potential. Anthony Davis was just a damn good shot blocker for the first few years. Same with ibaka. Ibaka wasn't very good at actual help defense until the last few years. I could go on and on. You see young guys make all star teams but how many actually make all defensive teams in the NBA.
Defense in the NBA is simply really, really hard.
i am not saying they should be lock down defenders but with their athleticism and thibs expertise on that end i thiught they would be much better...
i thought lavine and wiggins could be a terror together on defense with towns shot blocking
lavine looks lazy on defense and only wants to score on offense...
they really cpuld of used one more year with kg at least on the bench beong a leader like sheed was here
Ingram, bender, hield and dunn have been horrendous. Brownand sabonis have been OK. Murray honestly looks like the second best player from the draft (not counting Ingram out, he's gonna be fine, but boy it was crime to even compare him to KD 3 months ago let alone today). Chriss hasn't been all that good but considering how raw he was he's looking alright compared to his peers.
The Maker pick doesn't look like a bad risk at all now.
lavine looks lazy on defense and only wants to score on offense...
they really cpuld of used one more year with kg at least on the bench beong a leader like sheed was here
Hmm yeah I can understand the Wiggins criticism, but he's still only 21, he's gonna have some sort of useful role in the league. Lavine was a horrible defender coming in so it might take him a bit longer than Wiggins or towns to become competent on that end. But overall I like his potential more than that of Wiggins.
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and are wasting him on the bench. Plus he will be 23, so its not like he is young and needs time. They could have drafted Murray who has been picking it up. They could have taken Chriss who has flashed. Hell, they could have taken Maker (who I am not huge on, but the upside is there). You dont draft a PG and sit him behind the worst offensive PG in the NBA.
This team should be at least .500 fighting for a playoff spot.
Dunn has been even worse than Rubio. It's probably right to invest in him for the long term but that might have even made their start worse than it is.
He still needs to play more. But he also plays for Thibs who doesnt really play rookies.