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NFT: Knicks @ Timberwolves - Game Chat

adamg : 11/30/2016 7:27 pm
Here's to hoping Melo has a turnaround type of outing tonight.

Let's go Knicks!
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win is a win  
Vanzetti : 11/30/2016 10:36 pm : link
good redemption by Melo at the end

But Melo has to learn it is not about getting his shot to fall. This is Porzingas' team. Melo and Rose both need to check their egos and acknowledge that.

RE: The ironic thing about everyone blaming Melo at the end  
Jon in NYC : 11/30/2016 10:37 pm : link
In comment 13242101 Aspano! said:
Quote:
Is that his final shot was immediately following a timeout, and thus Hornacek drew up the play to get Melo the final shot despite his shooting. Yet if Melo had missed it, we'd be giving him crap for Iso Melo.


This is an excellent point.

RE: RE: Whatever whatever  
PhiPsi125 : 11/30/2016 10:37 pm : link
In comment 13242093 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 13242088 PhiPsi125 said:


Quote:


Go home Melo, this team is better without you.

If Melo never left the bench this game wouldn't have been close.



really not fair, amd we wonder why no superstar wants to come here


Oh give me a break, what games are you watching? I've been his biggest support for a long time. He's not going to change even though he's half the player he used to be. Learn to adapt to winning basketball and I'll support him again. Right now he's just a selfish player. Perfectly fair.
and everyone blaming melo for killing the ball movement  
nygiants16 : 11/30/2016 10:37 pm : link
how many shots dod he take in the 4th?
Meh @ "who's team is it".  
Ten Ton Hammer : 11/30/2016 10:37 pm : link
You never hear that type of stuff with winning teams. It's just something to fill time on talk radio.

Besides, Porzingis looks like he was nursing a limp during the game. Breen mentioned it more than once.
RE: RE: RE: Whatever whatever  
nygiants16 : 11/30/2016 10:40 pm : link
In comment 13242105 PhiPsi125 said:
Quote:
In comment 13242093 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


In comment 13242088 PhiPsi125 said:


Quote:


Go home Melo, this team is better without you.

If Melo never left the bench this game wouldn't have been close.



really not fair, amd we wonder why no superstar wants to come here



Oh give me a break, what games are you watching? I've been his biggest support for a long time. He's not going to change even though he's half the player he used to be. Learn to adapt to winning basketball and I'll support him again. Right now he's just a selfish player. Perfectly fair.


how many shots he take in the 4th quarter?

mr selfish took THREE. shots in the 4th...

RE: my mistakr if i misread  
Mason : 11/30/2016 10:40 pm : link
In comment 13242047 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
but reread what you wrote, you made it sound like you dont watch every game...

my mistake


No problem. Sorry myself, I was frustrated watching that lead dwindle.

My point went Rose has never differ even when he has a good shooting night. Rose's game is dominating the ball until he gets going. For this team and this offense that's not something that will work on a consistent basis.
RE: can we stop blaming melo for absolutely everything  
PhiPsi125 : 11/30/2016 10:41 pm : link
In comment 13242099 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
..


Well, if you say so.
he took 14 shoots tonight  
nygiants16 : 11/30/2016 10:41 pm : link
so tell me again how he ball hogged tonight and was selfish?
dunno about the 4th  
adamg : 11/30/2016 10:42 pm : link
but he shot 31 percent on 16 shots.

Kooz made as many shots on 7 fewer attempts
RE: RE: my mistakr if i misread  
nygiants16 : 11/30/2016 10:42 pm : link
In comment 13242115 Mason said:
Quote:
In comment 13242047 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


but reread what you wrote, you made it sound like you dont watch every game...

my mistake



No problem. Sorry myself, I was frustrated watching that lead dwindle.

My point went Rose has never differ even when he has a good shooting night. Rose's game is dominating the ball until he gets going. For this team and this offense that's not something that will work on a consistent basis.


me myself i think he is still adjusting, remember he is used to being the ball dominant player and only scoring option..

he is still foguring out when to pick his spots..

tonight he did not play well though
RE: dunno about the 4th  
nygiants16 : 11/30/2016 10:44 pm : link
In comment 13242120 adamg said:
Quote:
but he shot 31 percent on 16 shots.

Kooz made as many shots on 7 fewer attempts


my point was, he said he came in and he was the reason they lost the lead and i called bullshit...

he only took 3 shots, so how was he ball hogging and being selfish? the ball was in jennings hands the entire 4th
RE: he took 14 shoots tonight  
PhiPsi125 : 11/30/2016 10:45 pm : link
In comment 13242118 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
so tell me again how he ball hogged tonight and was selfish?


My god, if you want to ride this train then more power to you. I'm not going toe to toe with you all night. I know what he is. It's not just one quarter. It's not just one game. You can ride his jock if you want. Have at it.
He has had a cold shooting week of games.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 11/30/2016 10:45 pm : link
It's not the end of the world. He was ridiculously hot previous to this.

People are just in a rush to kill the guy and hand the team over to KP as if Melo is somehow holding him back.
Forget offense, we score 105 in spite of melo.  
Keith : 11/30/2016 10:47 pm : link
Look at his defense. Give him a pass trying to adjust his offense, fine, but the defensive effort is a joke. Pathetic. As was his "rebounding" when we needed boards late in that game. Effort should never slump.

Rose was terrible. I'm glad hornacek is willing to sit guys if it's not working. Jennings had control. Good minutes from the whole bench.
RE: He has had a cold shooting week of games.  
nygiants16 : 11/30/2016 10:48 pm : link
In comment 13242127 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
It's not the end of the world. He was ridiculously hot previous to this.

People are just in a rush to kill the guy and hand the team over to KP as if Melo is somehow holding him back.


the funny thing is when melo is gone and the team is not winning they will atart killing kp...

kp himself said he would not be playing this well without melo and rose, yet fans want to get rid of melo and rose, makes sense
No one is in a rush to kill Melo  
LawrenceTaylor56 : 11/30/2016 10:49 pm : link
Here's his last 5 games.

5 for 16
4 for 19
7 for 25
14 for 25
7 for 22

He's horrible right now. It's okay to say that. He isn't an asset on the defensive side of the floor. When his shot isn't falling. He's a liability. Like I said earlier, he needs to reinvent his game for when he is cold.
Haha, was ready to come on and berate Melo. Thank god for  
Jim in Hoboken : 11/30/2016 10:49 pm : link
the last second heroics. Before that bucket, he did miss two shots down the stretch and then nonchalantly go after the rebound only to have it taken away.

KAT is ridiculous. NBA has a couple of super young frontcourt studs.

KAT, Greek Freak, KP, Embiid, and Simmons when he comes back. Assuming Embiid stays healthy, who would you take?
RE: Forget offense, we score 105 in spite of melo.  
adamg : 11/30/2016 10:49 pm : link
In comment 13242133 Keith said:
Quote:
Look at his defense. Give him a pass trying to adjust his offense, fine, but the defensive effort is a joke. Pathetic. As was his "rebounding" when we needed boards late in that game. Effort should never slump.

Rose was terrible. I'm glad hornacek is willing to sit guys if it's not working. Jennings had control. Good minutes from the whole bench.


Exactly. His effort and D are always suspect too, even when his O is hot.
Trying to play Melo at the 3 is always going to result  
Ten Ton Hammer : 11/30/2016 10:50 pm : link
in poor defense since he can't guard 3s anymore, especially not the young athletes the wolves have.
LOL. Knicks fans complained that Melo was taking shots from  
Mason : 11/30/2016 10:50 pm : link
Steve Novak and Landry Fields at one time. At times I just laugh.
TTH, did you watch the game?  
Keith : 11/30/2016 10:52 pm : link
It's not melo too slow to stick with quicker guys. It's his effort. The dude has no dog in his game and quits on defense.
What the hell do you expect KP to say? That he thinks the vets are  
PhiPsi125 : 11/30/2016 10:55 pm : link
holding him back? Come on man.

And as for your future telling abilities, it's funny that you find it so easy to tell people how they will root in the future as if Melo and KP are the same person or that you have any clue to what you are talking about.

KP and Melo couldn't be any different. But, yeah, if KP develops into a selfish, me-first player that hinders the team...then yeah, fans will probably get on him too. Me thinks that won't happen though.
So that last play wasn't really planned to be a melo shot.  
Keith : 11/30/2016 10:56 pm : link
Hornacek thought they'd double melo which would get us an open shot. They didn't double(why would they).
RE: No one is in a rush to kill Melo  
Ten Ton Hammer : 11/30/2016 10:56 pm : link
In comment 13242140 LawrenceTaylor56 said:
Quote:
Like I said earlier, he needs to reinvent his game for when he is cold.



He attempted 5 shots total in the first half. It's not like he was out there chucking it and killing the offense.
RE: TTH, did you watch the game?  
Ten Ton Hammer : 11/30/2016 10:58 pm : link
In comment 13242150 Keith said:
Quote:
It's not melo too slow to stick with quicker guys. It's his effort. The dude has no dog in his game and quits on defense.

No, it's actually a fact that he cannot athletically hang with small forwards. That part of his career is over. 4 is his best position and has been since like 2011.
RE: RE: No one is in a rush to kill Melo  
adamg : 11/30/2016 10:59 pm : link
In comment 13242155 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 13242140 LawrenceTaylor56 said:


Quote:


Like I said earlier, he needs to reinvent his game for when he is cold.




He attempted 5 shots total in the first half. It's not like he was out there chucking it and killing the offense.


It's not just his offense that's killing. You're right. he was better tonight about not going ISO every time and chucking it up as the shot clock diminishes. But, he didn't take great shots when he attempted them and his effort on D is inconsistent which kills the momentum we could potentially build. You never know if he's going to attack the ball or not.
It doesn't matter what position he's at. Can't have success  
Keith : 11/30/2016 11:00 pm : link
without trying first.
RE: What the hell do you expect KP to say? That he thinks the vets are  
nygiants16 : 11/30/2016 11:00 pm : link
In comment 13242152 PhiPsi125 said:
Quote:
holding him back? Come on man.

And as for your future telling abilities, it's funny that you find it so easy to tell people how they will root in the future as if Melo and KP are the same person or that you have any clue to what you are talking about.

KP and Melo couldn't be any different. But, yeah, if KP develops into a selfish, me-first player that hinders the team...then yeah, fans will probably get on him too. Me thinks that won't happen though.



do you realize knicks fans killed ewing?

it comes with the territory in new york, every star gets blamed for everything and when they win they get none of the credit..

look at eli as a perfect example, is he a selfish player? no yet he gets ripped after every game win ot lose...

ot is not just melo, there is a reason why no star wants to come to new york
RE: It doesn't matter what position he's at. Can't have success  
adamg : 11/30/2016 11:01 pm : link
In comment 13242164 Keith said:
Quote:
without trying first.


And you can see the effect of his inconsistency at times. He'll actually go for a rebound and then he bumps into his teammate who assumes he's just going to stand around doing nothing.
RE: So that last play wasn't really planned to be a melo shot.  
Aspano! : 11/30/2016 11:01 pm : link
In comment 13242154 Keith said:
Quote:
Hornacek thought they'd double melo which would get us an open shot. They didn't double(why would they).


You mean coaches run plays that have multiple options? That can't be true. And even then - despite Melo's shooting, Hornacek still expected a Melo double team, and when there wasn't the ball still went to him.
RE: RE: What the hell do you expect KP to say? That he thinks the vets are  
adamg : 11/30/2016 11:01 pm : link
In comment 13242165 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 13242152 PhiPsi125 said:


Quote:


holding him back? Come on man.

And as for your future telling abilities, it's funny that you find it so easy to tell people how they will root in the future as if Melo and KP are the same person or that you have any clue to what you are talking about.

KP and Melo couldn't be any different. But, yeah, if KP develops into a selfish, me-first player that hinders the team...then yeah, fans will probably get on him too. Me thinks that won't happen though.




do you realize knicks fans killed ewing?

it comes with the territory in new york, every star gets blamed for everything and when they win they get none of the credit..

look at eli as a perfect example, is he a selfish player? no yet he gets ripped after every game win ot lose...

ot is not just melo, there is a reason why no star wants to come to new york


The difference between Melo and Eli is that the media loves Melo's game and hates Eli's game, while the fans hate Melo's game and love Eli's game.
melo could win a championship in new york  
nygiants16 : 11/30/2016 11:02 pm : link
and there will still be fans who will say the team won in spite of him...

that 54 win season no one talks about, he carried that team and who gets the credit for leading thay team? jason kidd..
RE: RE: RE: What the hell do you expect KP to say? That he thinks the vets are  
nygiants16 : 11/30/2016 11:04 pm : link
In comment 13242169 adamg said:
Quote:
In comment 13242165 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


In comment 13242152 PhiPsi125 said:


Quote:


holding him back? Come on man.

And as for your future telling abilities, it's funny that you find it so easy to tell people how they will root in the future as if Melo and KP are the same person or that you have any clue to what you are talking about.

KP and Melo couldn't be any different. But, yeah, if KP develops into a selfish, me-first player that hinders the team...then yeah, fans will probably get on him too. Me thinks that won't happen though.




do you realize knicks fans killed ewing?

it comes with the territory in new york, every star gets blamed for everything and when they win they get none of the credit..

look at eli as a perfect example, is he a selfish player? no yet he gets ripped after every game win ot lose...

ot is not just melo, there is a reason why no star wants to come to new york



The difference between Melo and Eli is that the media loves Melo's game and hates Eli's game, while the fans hate Melo's game and love Eli's game.


the media loves melos game? really? who?
16, just stop.  
Keith : 11/30/2016 11:04 pm : link
I get the point you are trying to make, but just because it happens too often, doesn't mean it's never warranted. Find me 1 second of tape on Ewing where he didn't give 110% effort. Ewing got killed(mostly because he was a dick) and he didn't deserve it. Has nothing to do with melo. Not a thing.
RE: 16, just stop.  
nygiants16 : 11/30/2016 11:06 pm : link
In comment 13242173 Keith said:
Quote:
I get the point you are trying to make, but just because it happens too often, doesn't mean it's never warranted. Find me 1 second of tape on Ewing where he didn't give 110% effort. Ewing got killed(mostly because he was a dick) and he didn't deserve it. Has nothing to do with melo. Not a thing.


it happens to every single star player in new york, i am jusy sick of it..

did melo play well tonight? absolutely not, has he played well these past couple of weeks? no he hasnt but fans have want to run him out of town since linsanity..

Melo has been on every top 10 player list  
adamg : 11/30/2016 11:07 pm : link
you can name in the last 5 years. Stephen A goes on national TV singing his praises every time he comes up. Do you not see that?
nygiants, do you realize that Ewing wasn't exactly a fan-friendly  
PhiPsi125 : 11/30/2016 11:08 pm : link
player? And I knew you were bring up Ewing too. Ewing was a great player. He was also a grumpy old curmudgeon that made it easy to get on. Melo didn't exactly have the best reputation either before he got here. And he also doesn't help himself either.

Yes, I agree that it comes with the territory here in NY to some degree. But it's also the player. Eli is a different issue. That shit boggles my mind. My issue with Melo is that he could be such an amazing player if he didn't still believe that he's on the same level as Lebron. He can adapt and change and really take this team to the next level. I just don't think he will ever do that. Sure, he's going to have his good stretches, but he'll never change in my opinion.
16, Because he's lazy. Fans want him out because he's not the same  
Keith : 11/30/2016 11:08 pm : link
offensive player he used to be. You can deal with the bad defense and selfish play when he's dominating on offense. Now that he's not dominating, he's killing us because he is a negative in every other aspect of the game.
RE: Melo has been on every top 10 player list  
nygiants16 : 11/30/2016 11:11 pm : link
In comment 13242176 adamg said:
Quote:
you can name in the last 5 years. Stephen A goes on national TV singing his praises every time he comes up. Do you not see that?


does anyone still take stephen a seriously?
And then look at the previous 2 Melo shots  
Aspano! : 11/30/2016 11:12 pm : link
Before the game winner. An open 3 off a Jennings PnR that he airballed, and an elbow jumper - basically his bread and butter shot. He's in a shooting slump - it happens.

People give Melo shit for Iso-ing all the time, but there's a reason that it's been consistent throughout various coaches over the past 6 years. He's one of the best in the NBA at creating his own shot. Give him an inch and he'll hit the shot with a lot of consistency.

Go look at an interview with Paul Pierce from a few years ago where he named the toughest players he ever had to guard. Read the blurb on Melo. Knicks fans take what he brings to the team for granted.

And DESPITE EVERYTHING, Melo came into the game KNOWING that his shot was off. Throughout the entire 1st half, both Breen and Clyde were talking about how Melo wasn't even looking for his shot, and just trying to pass. The dude can't win.
RE: 16, Because he's lazy. Fans want him out because he's not the same  
nygiants16 : 11/30/2016 11:13 pm : link
In comment 13242179 Keith said:
Quote:
offensive player he used to be. You can deal with the bad defense and selfish play when he's dominating on offense. Now that he's not dominating, he's killing us because he is a negative in every other aspect of the game.


it is not just about this year, every single year fans wanted to get rid of him, after the 54 win season people wanted to get rid of him...

i am done, i get why people are frustrated with him this year, i guess my fristration is with everyone trying to run him out of town every year he has been here...

the worst was the jeremy lin thing
Lol  
Keith : 11/30/2016 11:14 pm : link
It's 2016, not 2012. Let me know when melo makes the list for toughest to defend in 2016. He's 90% midrange now and he can't really create anymore.
RE: And then look at the previous 2 Melo shots  
adamg : 11/30/2016 11:15 pm : link
In comment 13242182 Aspano! said:
Quote:
Before the game winner. An open 3 off a Jennings PnR that he airballed, and an elbow jumper - basically his bread and butter shot. He's in a shooting slump - it happens.

People give Melo shit for Iso-ing all the time, but there's a reason that it's been consistent throughout various coaches over the past 6 years. He's one of the best in the NBA at creating his own shot. Give him an inch and he'll hit the shot with a lot of consistency.

Go look at an interview with Paul Pierce from a few years ago where he named the toughest players he ever had to guard. Read the blurb on Melo. Knicks fans take what he brings to the team for granted.

And DESPITE EVERYTHING, Melo came into the game KNOWING that his shot was off. Throughout the entire 1st half, both Breen and Clyde were talking about how Melo wasn't even looking for his shot, and just trying to pass. The dude can't win.


Because of how 1 dimensional he is, that's true. If he can't shoot, he's worthless.
Ugh, I would give so much for Noah to be off the team  
Anakim : 11/30/2016 11:17 pm : link
1 - Rose

2 - Lee

3 - Whomever

4 - Melo

5 - Porzingis
RE: Ugh, I would give so much for Noah to be off the team  
adamg : 11/30/2016 11:20 pm : link
In comment 13242188 Anakim said:
Quote:
1 - Rose

2 - Lee

3 - Whomever

4 - Melo

5 - Porzingis


If Melo embraced the 4, this team could be special.

Plumlee looked great tonight btw. Contesting and playing physical. He was impressive.
RE: RE: And then look at the previous 2 Melo shots  
Aspano! : 11/30/2016 11:20 pm : link
In comment 13242187 adamg said:
Quote:
In comment 13242182 Aspano! said:


Quote:


Before the game winner. An open 3 off a Jennings PnR that he airballed, and an elbow jumper - basically his bread and butter shot. He's in a shooting slump - it happens.

People give Melo shit for Iso-ing all the time, but there's a reason that it's been consistent throughout various coaches over the past 6 years. He's one of the best in the NBA at creating his own shot. Give him an inch and he'll hit the shot with a lot of consistency.

Go look at an interview with Paul Pierce from a few years ago where he named the toughest players he ever had to guard. Read the blurb on Melo. Knicks fans take what he brings to the team for granted.

And DESPITE EVERYTHING, Melo came into the game KNOWING that his shot was off. Throughout the entire 1st half, both Breen and Clyde were talking about how Melo wasn't even looking for his shot, and just trying to pass. The dude can't win.



Because of how 1 dimensional he is, that's true. If he can't shoot, he's worthless.


Yes, last year when he had career highs in rebounds and assists and played some of the best defense of his career, he proved his monodimensionality. I'll give you that his defense has been shit this year, but you can say that with everyone on the team this year. Rose has gotten better on D, Holiday has been great on that side, and Jennings has proved to be quite pesky at times (bringing back memories of Prigioni). Everyone else has been dogshit.

And this "effort" argument isn't even worth addressing.
RE: Ugh, I would give so much for Noah to be off the team  
Aspano! : 11/30/2016 11:23 pm : link
In comment 13242188 Anakim said:
Quote:
1 - Rose

2 - Lee

3 - Whomever

4 - Melo

5 - Porzingis


If you really believe Porzingis should be a fulltime 5 at this point in his career, you should stick to NFL mock drafts. Playing the 5 isn't predicated upon purely a player's height. God knows what your advice for Nowitzki would have been his first few years in the league.
RE: RE: Ugh, I would give so much for Noah to be off the team  
LawrenceTaylor56 : 11/30/2016 11:27 pm : link
In comment 13242195 Aspano! said:
Quote:
In comment 13242188 Anakim said:


Quote:


1 - Rose

2 - Lee

3 - Whomever

4 - Melo

5 - Porzingis



If you really believe Porzingis should be a fulltime 5 at this point in his career, you should stick to NFL mock drafts. Playing the 5 isn't predicated upon purely a player's height. God knows what your advice for Nowitzki would have been his first few years in the league.


Lmao.. true. KP isn't ready for the fulltime 5 role just yet. Noahs contract is an abysmal. But right now KP needs to lean on him for veteran leadership. Can't have KP out there banging with 5's every night.
RE: RE: RE: And then look at the previous 2 Melo shots  
adamg : 11/30/2016 11:28 pm : link
In comment 13242193 Aspano! said:
Quote:
In comment 13242187 adamg said:


Quote:


In comment 13242182 Aspano! said:


Quote:


Before the game winner. An open 3 off a Jennings PnR that he airballed, and an elbow jumper - basically his bread and butter shot. He's in a shooting slump - it happens.

People give Melo shit for Iso-ing all the time, but there's a reason that it's been consistent throughout various coaches over the past 6 years. He's one of the best in the NBA at creating his own shot. Give him an inch and he'll hit the shot with a lot of consistency.

Go look at an interview with Paul Pierce from a few years ago where he named the toughest players he ever had to guard. Read the blurb on Melo. Knicks fans take what he brings to the team for granted.

And DESPITE EVERYTHING, Melo came into the game KNOWING that his shot was off. Throughout the entire 1st half, both Breen and Clyde were talking about how Melo wasn't even looking for his shot, and just trying to pass. The dude can't win.



Because of how 1 dimensional he is, that's true. If he can't shoot, he's worthless.



Yes, last year when he had career highs in rebounds and assists and played some of the best defense of his career, he proved his monodimensionality. I'll give you that his defense has been shit this year, but you can say that with everyone on the team this year. Rose has gotten better on D, Holiday has been great on that side, and Jennings has proved to be quite pesky at times (bringing back memories of Prigioni). Everyone else has been dogshit.

And this "effort" argument isn't even worth addressing.


He didn't have career high rebounds last year. He did assists tho. I didn't know a personal best qualified as relevant to a players relative strengths within the league tho...

This year his assist% is slightly below his career average. Rebounds% is around career average. So, this is really Melo's game apparently. If you want to look numbers.
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