NFT: NY Rangers @ Buffalo Sabres. 7:05 PM on MSG

games or see much coverage overall. Most of what I see with Henrik though is him off the ice. Is he just not focused or is that just because of what I see?

In comment 13243584 bigbluehoya said:

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But pretty sure we're never seeing Clendo again

Really good composure with the puck the first 30 minutes, even if his 1st period shifts were kept short. On the PP he kept his shot low and on the ice, Vesey deflected, and Nash with the rebound. Good skater, intuitive, quick with his hands. Dunno if that will be enough for AV.
Mentioned the 5-hole issue for Henrik the other night, it continues a big problem. And one can make excuses/explanations for the first goal all you want, it's still inexcusable, my goodness.

The narrative will be him struggling but that's missing the forest for the trees. This defense is hemorrhaging chances and cannot move the puck.

The guy is barely a decent backup anymore. Raanta is infinitely better than this scrub.

In comment 13243628 Kyle in NY said:

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The narrative will be him struggling but that's missing the forest for the trees. This defense is hemorrhaging chances and cannot move the puck.

Short term, I agree.

But long term Henrik could be a problem

skates.


But seriously, this team DESPERATELY needs a #1 RD. DESPERATELY. Trouba, Barrie, Hamilton, Shattenkirk (though I don't like Shatty's defensive game)...IDK, but this team needs a #1 RD. Klein sucks this year; Girardi is...well, Girardi and Clendening is unproven.

In comment 13243628 Kyle in NY said:

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The narrative will be him struggling but that's missing the forest for the trees. This defense is hemorrhaging chances and cannot move the puck.

Obviously some people are taking the reactions way too far, but there's good reason to be disappointed in his play.

Valiquette and Maloney both with positive reviews of Clendening, which is a good sign. Not that AV listens to anything those guys have to say, but there's hope that the coaching staff would be seeing a lot of the same things.

In comment 13243656 Anakim said:

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skates. But seriously, this team DESPERATELY needs a #1 RD. DESPERATELY. Trouba, Barrie, Hamilton, Shattenkirk (though I don't like Shatty's defensive game)...IDK, but this team needs a #1 RD. Klein sucks this year; Girardi is...well, Girardi and Clendening is unproven.

I'll add Chris Tanev and John Klingberg to the list

is now, does anyone actually think one RD not named Karlsson (don't know what side he plays honestly) will do anything?

In comment 13243676 BestFeature said:

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is now, does anyone actually think one RD not named Karlsson (don't know what side he plays honestly) will do anything?

Absolutely. If McDonagh is not weighed down by Girardi, with the way Staal has played we should be fine.

I think we're one #1 RD away from being set

But apparently Brooksie asked AV if he was aware that they were pinned in their own end for most of the night (or something to that effect). LOL.

I actually think Brooks has been pretty on point so far this season.

Also Vali was very complimentary of Clendo's game in the bit of the post-game I saw. He also thought Eichel went down way too easy on the Clendo penalty (i.e. took a dive), which is what I suspected in real time. I dont think MSG ran a replay during the game.

IMO is a slightly better Yandle (more well-rounded)

I'd trade for him, I like him a lot, but not what I'd trade for Trouba or Jones, for example.

He'd be a top RD on the Rangers.

I'd wait until next year for him. I would trade for a different defenseman. Trouba, etc.

Of course, i would still move Nash but that's just me.

But if they are seriously thinking about moving him, now would be the time.

is he even available except for a kings' ransom (for a UFA)? Blues are the #2 team in the west right now.

As for Shattenkirk, I'd sign him no doubt. I dont think he's Yandle's equal offensively but probably more than makes up for it in being a better defender. In any event, if Yandle was a RD or if his opportunity here was better (AV's usage, org weight at LD vs RD, NMC situation), I would have been all over resigning him so there is no need to decide who is better among KY and KS.

Key thing with the Rangers is that they dont just need a RD. They need someone so clearly better than DG that DG is knocked down to the 2nd pair. Realistically, Gorton needs to buyout DG this offseason (hopefully he takes the Biron buyout).

In comment 13244156 Deej said:

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Also Vali was very complimentary of Clendo's game in the bit of the post-game I saw. He also thought Eichel went down way too easy on the Clendo penalty (i.e. took a dive), which is what I suspected in real time. I dont think MSG ran a replay during the game.

Deej, I think MSG did, but it's possible I was rewinding rt. In any event, the comment as Clendening and Eichel scuffled along the boards before Clen wrapped his left arm around Eichel's waste was "two BU guys..." I think the college connection unleashed the evil genie on Clen's left shoulder, because it was uncharacteristic of his play last night: in general, he was very smart, anticipated well, and played within himself. It was a needless embrace and he lost his cool for a moment, and it was enough. Didn't mean Henrik couldn't have stuffed the ensuing PP shot at the left pipe.

and, yes, he went down like a dying swan, or diving swan

Zipay:

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On D, Klein back with Skjei. Fans should hope 8 got message

In comment 13244484 BrettNYG10 said:

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Zipay: Quote: On D, Klein back with Skjei. Fans should hope 8 got message

Is the message that he should spend more time sliding on his belly? Because snow angels dont get you benched.

The notion that KK needed a message sent is a little silly. It suggests that his problem is attitude.

In comment 13244220 Deej said:

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is he even available except for a kings' ransom (for a UFA)? Blues are the #2 team in the west right now. As for Shattenkirk, I'd sign him no doubt. I dont think he's Yandle's equal offensively but probably more than makes up for it in being a better defender. In any event, if Yandle was a RD or if his opportunity here was better (AV's usage, org weight at LD vs RD, NMC situation), I would have been all over resigning him so there is no need to decide who is better among KY and KS. Key thing with the Rangers is that they dont just need a RD. They need someone so clearly better than DG that DG is knocked down to the 2nd pair. Realistically, Gorton needs to buyout DG this offseason (hopefully he takes the Biron buyout).

I wasn't comparing Shattenkirk and Yandle for any other reason than to provide a comp for my thoughts on Shattenkirk. And I like Yandle.

I'm not sure of your last point. Shattenkirk knocks Girardi to the 2nd pair easily. But I hate when coaches are hung up on RH D needs to play RD. Many D prefer opposite hand D. Gonchar was famous for it.

Especially in the offensive zone b/c you get a much better shot fro the opposite side as your shot hand.

one of the worst games according to a Corsi of the last ten years last night. And Clendening is the one to come out. There is no accountability back there

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In comment 13244625 BrettNYG10 said:

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Fewer than

:(

Everyone played like hot garbage. Silver lining, if there is one, we nearly got a point out of this game while being that shitty.

I'm not confident we do anything to improve our shoddy D. I think the only shakeup would be caused by an injury/injuries that force us to callup a Hartford player (not named Summers) and that player actually plays well enough to stay.

In comment 13244568 pjcas18 said:

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I'm not sure of your last point. Shattenkirk knocks Girardi to the 2nd pair easily. But I hate when coaches are hung up on RH D needs to play RD. Many D prefer opposite hand D. Gonchar was famous for it.

My point was that I'd rather give more to get a Shattenkirk type vs. giving less and getting a #4. A #4 knocks KK or Holden out of the lineup but leaves DG at RD1.

In comment 13244634 jv said:

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Everyone played like hot garbage. Silver lining, if there is one, we nearly got a point out of this game while being that shitty.

I watched pieces this morning - the team is replicating what happened last year in recent games.

I was surprised by the hot start. I thought borderline playoff team, but no real Cup contention barring a top four D acquisition. I'm just concerned the team will throw assets in the wrong direction trying to rectify the wrong problems or thinking this team is much closer than it is (something like last year's Staal trade was infuriating).

I'm getting way ahead of myself given where we are in the standings, but if it looks like the team is only going to be a WC at the deadline, I'd rather trade Nash for assets and then make a run at a guy or two in the off-season.

Trade Nash for a first and young dman at the deadline, buyout Girardi in the off-season, sign Shattenkirk, win four Cups in a row before Lundqvist retires.

In comment 13244644 Deej said:

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In comment 13244568 pjcas18 said: Quote: I'm not sure of your last point. Shattenkirk knocks Girardi to the 2nd pair easily. But I hate when coaches are hung up on RH D needs to play RD. Many D prefer opposite hand D. Gonchar was famous for it. My point was that I'd rather give more to get a Shattenkirk type vs. giving less and getting a #4. A #4 knocks KK or Holden out of the lineup but leaves DG at RD1.

Oh, yeah, I agree completely. depth moves are fine, but they don't always move the needle on the quality of your team enough to make a difference.

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Happy Anniversary pj!!!! - ( New Window )

In comment 13244634 jv said:

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Everyone played like hot garbage. Silver lining, if there is one, we nearly got a point out of this game while being that shitty.

But that's the thing... far too often in AV's tenure here we've lost games late in regulation and ended up with a big fat zero points out of a game when the goal in the regular season is just to accumulate points, and that means getting bitch points here and there (or better yet 'cheap' 2nd points in skills competitions). Everyone else does it and at the end of the year it doesnt matter how many regulation wins you had.

To be fair, we win some games late in regulation too - Edmonton and Carolina this year are two examples.

Going on 3+ years of AV at this point, we go to overtime FAR FAR less than other teams, and its too large a sample set now to dismiss. Is there something about our game that is more aggressive than what other teams do late in their tied games?

One overtime game in 25 games now is ridiculous and its going to cost us if it doesnt change.

Two years. I think that has something to do with it.

In comment 13244654 BrettNYG10 said:

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. Happy Anniversary pj!!!! - ( New Window )

Thanks. I saw a list of all the goalies Montreal has traded since Roy, and it's kind of amazing. Canadiens goalie has to be among the most pressure filled jobs in sports.

Some people don't realize Jose Theodore won Hart and Vezina in the same year. Anyway, they traded Thibault, Theodore, Halak, Huet, Hackett, Budaj, Tokarski and many more all since Roy.

In comment 13244629 bigbluehoya said:

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In comment 13244625 BrettNYG10 said: Quote: . Fewer than

Not more than three :/

In comment 13244681 pjcas18 said:

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In comment 13244654 BrettNYG10 said: Quote: . Happy Anniversary pj!!!! - ( New Window ) Thanks. I saw a list of all the goalies Montreal has traded since Roy, and it's kind of amazing. Canadiens goalie has to be among the most pressure filled jobs in sports. Some people don't realize Jose Theodore won Hart and Vezina in the same year. Anyway, they traded Thibault, Theodore, Halak, Huet, Hackett, Budaj, Tokarski and many more all since Roy.

I liked Theodore. He just didn't have a long prime.

It'd be a sin if you guys don't win a Cup with Price. Same with NYR and Lundqvist, obviously.

that's why I'd trade for a D if I were the Rangers.

Never know who that next goalie will be, so when you have a Hank or Price it makes sense to be aggressive.

I don't mean to be irresponsible and mortgage the future, but nonetheless be aggressive.

I think that's why the Rangers acquired MSL a couple years ago, but IMO that was desperation adding a 38 year old past his prime forward for that price, acquiring someone like a 22 year old Trouba or Seth Jones isn't.

In comment 13244707 pjcas18 said:

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Never know who that next goalie will be, so when you have a Hank or Price it makes sense to be aggressive.

We know though. The King will pass the baton to the Tsar.
Link - ( New Window )

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Link - ( New Window )

I thought acquiring MSL made the team a second tier contender at the time, but didn't think the team was at a point where they needed to make that move. I don't think the Rangers make the SCF with him (opinions may vary) but that also sort of ignores the impact losing Price had on the Habs.

The Rangers had a much longer window that they shortened with bad moves. Elite forwards come available a bit more frequently than many suspect, IMV - hell, Thornton was available that very off-season and wanted to go to the Rangers.

And of course MSL was terrible the following post-season and dragged down every line he was on, including the PP.

I think the Rangers are at the point now where they should be willing to concede 2020-2022 to make a run with Lundqvist but they don't have the non-roster assets they would have had if they didn't trade for MSL/Yandle.

I know that all sounds negative, but I still think they're only a player or two away on D to be a favorite.

window. Too soon to say. Late #1s are a crap shoot anyway, and guys older than those draftees are really only breaking out in the last year or two.

Moreover, our forward corp is really good (and we dont get Vesey IMO if we had 1 or 2 more good forward prospects ready). And the real problem is that Girardi, Klein, and just worse. If we had the MSL, Nash, and Yandle picks back, what are the odds that DG is nevertheless our RD1, and Staal is LD2? 80%? Higher?

Those trades could really hurt in a few years, when those players would be expected to be in that ELC/2nd contract sweet spot.

In comment 13244717 Deej said:

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. Link - ( New Window )

Maybe. Radulov is the goods after spending time in the KHL (and he's obviously much older and not a goalie), just no one IMO is a sure bet to make that jump.

Without looking it up, I'd be very surprised if those players had a combined 50 nhl points yet.

Stralman/Yandle in terms of the window. The assets given up probably only had a marginal effect, because I agree with your point on Vesey.

In comment 13244736 BrettNYG10 said:

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Stralman/Yandle in terms of the window. The assets given up probably only had a marginal effect, because I agree with your point on Vesey.

I would have traded Girardi for the rumored ducks package but was decently pleased with his resigning. Didnt think the wheels were falling off that bad. The Staal signing I straight up supported.

Stralman as much a Boyle issue as a Girardi issue. Tough to say Yandle but for Staal when Yandle came much later -- how were they to know (and to be clear, AV preferred Staal anyway). The story you point to is very much the story of the current D corps ills, but IMO it is not a story of the picks we traded away.

The story is very different is McIlrath and (particularly) MDZ fulfill their potential here and arent dumped.

Also, we havent had a top 4 dman picked after round one since Toots in 2001 (ignoring Sauer).

Agreed, I think it would theoretically be easier to fix the current D with those picks. A young first rounder from 2014-2016 would still (presumably) have value even if they were in the AHL/Juniors.

I was making two separate points - I explained it poorly.

In comment 13244735 Deej said:

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Without looking it up, I'd be very surprised if those players had a combined 50 nhl points yet.

I was speaking strictly about MSL, but you're discounting the players they dealt with the picks.

Callahan
Dubinsky
Anisimov

etc..?

and the fact those players could have been dealt for picks or younger players instead of the "go for it" moves the Rangers made.

Not criticizing one way or the other, just some different perspective.

I view trading away Callahan to be a feature of the MSL trade, not a cost. I wanted no part of extending him for the money he wanted given the punishment he had taken. And he cant be traded since he has a NMC (wanted one here too) and a huge cap #. And unless you were trading him within a year of signing him, what's the market? Last year he was a 10-18-28 in 73 player.

Dubi was tough to see leave. AA I liked but it was more "he's a nice middle 6 wing for little $$" situation. I havent seen him this year and I have no idea how he is a near-PPG guy so far. I think the Nash deal still looks really good in hindsight. We needed a frontline player. Nash has 115 goals in NY, and AA and Dubi have 120 since leaving in 2500-3000 more minutes played. Do we get to sign Hayes, who didnt sign in Chicago because of their NHL depth, if we have those 2 guys? Hayes has 41 goals (9 fewer than Dubi) in 2250 career minutes.

Also, I reject the premise that it is even mildly plausible that we were going to trade top 9 productive, prime age vets. It's total fantasy world. Sather was NEVER going in that direction at that time.

I fell I should point out that the fan in me irrationally loves the Dubi-Cally-AA line. It will be one of those lines I remember for decade to come. Also of recent vintage: the Nylander-Jagr-Straka line. And my first NYR line, Kisio-Mullen-Ogrodnick.