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What kind of contract offers is JPP going to get...

Jerz44 : 12/3/2016 7:29 pm
...this off-season?

As of now, he has 50 tackles and 7 sacks. That projects to roughly 70 tackles and 10 sacks for the season. He also has 8 passes defensed, 3 forced fumbles and 22.5 hurries.

For comparisons, last year, Vernon had 61 and 7.5 and got that massive contract we all know about. He also had a bunch of hurries.

JPP is currently 27 so still very much in his prime. His numbers aren't JJ Watt eye-popping, but I think he's certainly playing at a high level and maybe just at or just below Pro-Bowl level (maybe I'm being a homer).

Does he stand to get a bonanza?


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RE: RE: he won't get tagged  
geelabee : 12/4/2016 12:49 am : link
In comment 13245630 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
In comment 13245624 area junc said:


Quote:


that eats up over 50% of the cap space. and that is really just being a dick now after everything he's been through. either sign him or let him get paid
no reason not to sign him to a long-term deal at fair market value. It's a premium position in the organization. We're set up for this. QB, LT, DE and CB. It's what we do.

Remember who our Safeties were on the '86 team? Dominant DE's make it a lot easier on the back end.

For reference - we gave JPP a $10M contract for a "prove it" deal. He's proven it now.



We'd be dicks if we tagged him? Seriously?


Stop bullshitting...the guy is better, more impactful, bigger and more physical then OLIVIER Vernon...the correct contract based on a this obvious fact is probably $1.5-2.0 million more annually then Vernon...based on the fact that he is 2 years older but about to enter his prime...the Giants should go 4 years no more then 5 years...with the guaranteed amount equivalent to Vernon but prorated based on years...what pisses me off is guys on this board telling us their "feelings" on what JPP while totally disrespecting this player...it's time to stop bull shitting and go to JPP with the right contract otherwise we risk watching JERRY JONES announcing JPP in March of 2017 as a member of the Dallas Cowboys...Vomit!!!!
There is no cap issue signing him. If we franchise him  
WillieYoung : 12/4/2016 1:49 am : link
it will create issues
The guy deserves to be paid!  
bigblue1124 : 12/4/2016 8:00 am : link
And I hope it’s the Giants that do so. I know there are a lot here that simply can’t move on from what he did and regardless of what he does will not change that. I personally don’t get it but as the saying goes opinions are like assholes everyone has one.

The guy is playing Great football and is still learning how to play again with his injury. He has not only become a leader on this team but also become an inspiration for others not only on this team but outside the game for people dealing with handicaps. IMV I believe OV said it best in the most recent Papa cast segment when asked about his injury he has been dealing with this season by saying how can I complain about what I have been going through when I look at the other end of the line and see what JPP has been through?

He is one of the best run stuffers in the league, is always pressuring the QB regardless of sack totals. He deserves to be paid top DE money. The few that say when he gets paid he will become lazy again are kidding themselves he has had one really bad year in 2013 but missed 5 games that season he played 8 games last year and damn near beat his totals from that season with a club hand.

Pay the man he deserves it. Arm chair GM’s and bitter old fans that can’t move on please STFU your shtick is old.
I'd offer the same exact contract as Vernon  
Keith : 12/4/2016 9:03 am : link
Plus inflation. He's earned it and he's worth it.
From the Get Go I said we would make a run this year  
Bluesbreaker : 12/4/2016 9:14 am : link
Many were saying no way next year will be our year ...
So now were not gonna re-sign him ? Really ? Who would replace
him Owa , Wynn Okawara ?
Our attempts in drafting defensive linemen have been hit or miss . We did nicely with Linvil Joeseph who we didn't keep
is still playing at a high level . We took Marvin Austin and
he was a complete bust . We took Damontre Moore who as of
now is another complete bust . We took Johnathin Hankins
who looks to be decent player and probably will be let go .
The added Jay Bromley who seemingly has been passed up by
a journeyman Robert Thomas .We most recently took Owamagbe Odigizuwa who at this point in time has shown very little
really and may be surpassed by an undrafted Okwara .
You keep JPP he is a high end two way DE that makes plays
at the end of games . If it comes down to money then
guys like DRC and Big Hank will most likely be let go and
Cruz be restructured . We won't be drafting high enough
to get a stud pass rusher or be able to afford one in
free agency . Eli's window is getting smaller we shouldn't
screw around thinking he will remain good 4-5 years from
now .
Umm  
mdthedream : 12/4/2016 9:46 am : link
He is getting paid 10 mill. Its a business and he is paid fairly seeing he blew off part of his hand. The Giants took care of him and paid him really well seeing what happened.
Vernon has nothing to do with any of this so stop comparing the two. The question will be what does other teams feel he is worth? I understand he has had two great weeks in a row but Chicago and Cleveland O-line are not that good. Also give credit to the CBs on some of the plays as well they are top notch. That said I hope we sing him to 4 years in the 10 -12mill per season. 10 Mill is the top 4 DE in a 4-3 defense.
Even if they franchise tag him I see no problem with that and don't think its unfair.
5 1/2  
mdthedream : 12/4/2016 9:51 am : link
sacks against Clev and Chicago bad O-lines. So we will see if it continues against top O-lines in the NFL. I hope it does he is a great character guy on the team a true leader.
Paying JPP a deal similar to Vernon's....  
Jimmy Googs : 12/4/2016 9:53 am : link
I have not researched but are their at least several teams in the NFL that pay top level dollars to two DEs (or at least two pass rushers) like the Giants may have to?

I know having these guys in 4-3 is different because of their run responsibilities too, but just asking if anybody has data of teams with tow-highest two-man pass rushing salaries.
The highest two-man pass rushing salaries  
Jimmy Googs : 12/4/2016 9:54 am : link
on same team.
tis is the salaries  
mdthedream : 12/4/2016 10:02 am : link
http://overthecap.com/position/4-3-defensive-end/
Market value is set based on the last player  
Patrick77 : 12/4/2016 10:03 am : link
Of similar skill who hit free agency. Vernon is a great comparison. Vernon is especially a great comparison if JPP is by far and away the best pass rusher and best DE in free agency. Teams have money to spend and have to spend a large amount of it.

Vernon was born October 1990
JPP was born January 1989

JPP is getting paid big big money this offseason if he keeps playing how he has been. There is pretty much no way around it. His contract shouldn't be higher than Vernon's but it very well could be.
sorry  
mdthedream : 12/4/2016 10:03 am : link
try that again
Link - ( New Window )
that said  
mdthedream : 12/4/2016 10:06 am : link
its the Giants at 1 and 4 with a 4-3 defense.
Giants need to do what they can to retain JPP  
eclipz928 : 12/4/2016 10:11 am : link
Hopefully he gives the team a nice hometown discount - the Giants showed a tremendous amount of faith in him by giving him the 1-year deal that he got after blowing off his hand. He may not have gotten that chance from another team. But yea, it's likely that he will want a deal similar to Vernon's.
At this point we are looking at  
section125 : 12/4/2016 10:37 am : link
Vernon's numbers. JPP is more powerful than OV and it seems that he gets it now. Any player can have regression after a big contract - it is the chance you take. JR will know best what JPP is likely to do when he gets the big contract and he is getting it from someone.

As much as it pains me, yes VC, is a likely cap victim.
RE: Giants need to do what they can to retain JPP  
Diver_Down : 12/4/2016 11:01 am : link
In comment 13245885 eclipz928 said:
Quote:
Hopefully he gives the team a nice hometown discount - the Giants showed a tremendous amount of faith in him by giving him the 1-year deal that he got after blowing off his hand. He may not have gotten that chance from another team. But yea, it's likely that he will want a deal similar to Vernon's.


We weren't his only choice. There were other teams that wanted to give him a chance. I don't remember which teams and the details of the offers. But he wanted to be a Giant and prove that he was capable. The organization and he took an equal risk. He won and so did the Giants. He should be paid his market value. Screw the Hometown discount. JPP did his job. Mara needs to delegate to the others to do theirs.
umm  
mdthedream : 12/4/2016 11:02 am : link
Jason was born in 89 Vernon 1990.
read  
mdthedream : 12/4/2016 11:04 am : link
that wrong sorry
RE: umm  
Big Blue '56 : 12/4/2016 11:05 am : link
In comment 13245942 mdthedream said:
Quote:
Jason was born in 89 Vernon 1990.


JPP will be 28 in several weeks
He was  
mdthedream : 12/4/2016 11:11 am : link
paid his value this year at 10 mill 5.5 sacks out of 7 against Chicago broken line and Cleveland is nice but lets not get crazy. The Giants will have to make a important decision and yes the can tag him its how it works.
Cruz  
mdthedream : 12/4/2016 11:13 am : link
we will see what Victor wants to do. Not a huge issue either way.
Cruz  
fkap : 12/4/2016 11:37 am : link
the only choice he has is whether to take a big paycut or see what the open market has to offer after we release him.

JPP, sans a total meltdown, is getting Vernon dollars. Whether it's from the Giants or someone else remains to be seen.

Hindsight being 20/20, the Giants would have been so much better off having given him that 10-12 mil a year contract he wanted 2 years ago. I still am a bit leery about his enthusiasm year in year out, but there's no denying that he is far better than anything else we've produced or acquired (jury being out on Vernon because of an alleged injury)
one has 6 sacks the other 7  
mdthedream : 12/4/2016 11:44 am : link
and both play the run well. Vernon puts more pressure on the Qb. The injury did slow him down.
Jason  
mdthedream : 12/4/2016 11:45 am : link
will get tagged if he doesn't want to make a deal.
5/90  
Vanzetti : 12/4/2016 11:47 am : link
with about 40 million guaranteed
He  
AcidTest : 12/4/2016 12:00 pm : link
deserves to be paid, but I think it will be by someone else. Somebody is going to offer him an insane amount of money. What Vernon got at a minimum.
RE: He  
Big Blue '56 : 12/4/2016 12:05 pm : link
In comment 13246008 AcidTest said:
Quote:
deserves to be paid, but I think it will be by someone else. Somebody is going to offer him an insane amount of money. What Vernon got at a minimum.


Agreed..Our team with OV on one side, OO and RO on the other with our anchors in the middle will survive..We'll draft well and sign FAs as needed..JPP will not cause this D to collapse.If we sign him and let Hankins go, I'll be super, super pissed..Keep both or let JPP go if he expects the moon.
Have to sign JPP  
pjcas18 : 12/4/2016 12:08 pm : link
need a "championship" D before ELi's window closes.

drafting someone or using OO or RO opposite Vernon has flashbacks for me of last year with Ayers on one side before JPP returned. Awful.
OO and RO on the other side...  
Jimmy Googs : 12/4/2016 12:12 pm : link
I would think we would have to go DE with first round pick as we cannot rely upon either of these two guys being the de facto starter opposite Vernon.

Tough to see their future as of yet, but possibility exists that they actually don't have one in the NFL...
RE: Have to sign JPP  
Big Blue '56 : 12/4/2016 12:15 pm : link
In comment 13246024 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
need a "championship" D before ELi's window closes.

drafting someone or using OO or RO opposite Vernon has flashbacks for me of last year with Ayers on one side before JPP returned. Awful.


I have a problem with HUGE guaranteed money for JPP. If it's doable and will allow us to re-sign Hankins and other OL FAs(if young and available), that's fine..Minority opinion or not, I don't believe he will perform well AFTER he gets the big bucks..I'm not a fan of JPP, that's no secret, but I certainly wouldn't cut off my nose to spite my face. If he can be signed for non-sky high dollars, then go for it..
RE: OO and RO on the other side...  
Big Blue '56 : 12/4/2016 12:16 pm : link
In comment 13246029 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
I would think we would have to go DE with first round pick as we cannot rely upon either of these two guys being the de facto starter opposite Vernon.

Tough to see their future as of yet, but possibility exists that they actually don't have one in the NFL...


I just said I could live with it, if I, as a fan, had to..I also said that this D, with other parts remaining in place and continual upgrades, will not die/collapse if JPP walks.
RE: RE: Have to sign JPP  
pjcas18 : 12/4/2016 12:20 pm : link
In comment 13246030 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
In comment 13246024 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


need a "championship" D before ELi's window closes.

drafting someone or using OO or RO opposite Vernon has flashbacks for me of last year with Ayers on one side before JPP returned. Awful.



I have a problem with HUGE guaranteed money for JPP. If it's doable and will allow us to re-sign Hankins and other OL FAs(if young and available), that's fine..Minority opinion or not, I don't believe he will perform well AFTER he gets the big bucks..I'm not a fan of JPP, that's no secret, but I certainly wouldn't cut off my nose to spite my face. If he can be signed for non-sky high dollars, then go for it..


Nothing is guaranteed (no pun intended), but I believe the fireworks incident humbled him if you believe him and have listened to any interviews he's given.

I have no problem with 40-50M guaranteed to him though I'd front load it to the extent possible.

The defense is really just a player or two away from being legit elite IMO and I hate going into the draft saying "we'll draft position X in the first round or rely on the drafted player to start" even if that's the case, it's a crapshoot.
Why would the Giants  
mdthedream : 12/4/2016 12:30 pm : link
let him walk when they can tag him? Sorry but its a business and they owe him nothing more than a contract at his value and a tag would be at that value. Its part of the roles and I don't blame them if they use it.
If he's signed to a 5 year  
Big Blue '56 : 12/4/2016 12:31 pm : link
deal, that's a $10 million amortized cap hit PLUS his salary..You really want to guarantee that kind of money to him? I wouldn't..$25 million guaranteed? Sure. I wouldn't take the chance on much more..You guys can believe the incident changed his life around (of vourse to some extent he probably has) Forgive me If I'm not buying..
tagging is not desirable  
pjcas18 : 12/4/2016 12:32 pm : link
by the player or the team in most cases.

The Giants should use the tag if they have to, but it's not the first choice IMO.
BB56  
hassan : 12/4/2016 12:34 pm : link
He will clear 14 million annually book it. Whether as a Giant or elsewhere.

Giants will need to tag him or get real about a contract and that may be hard. Having Odell at a bargain price for two more years may need to stay the case as qb and ends and Jenkins add up to a big cap number.
RE: If he's signed to a 5 year  
pjcas18 : 12/4/2016 12:35 pm : link
In comment 13246048 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
deal, that's a $10 million amortized cap hit PLUS his salary..You really want to guarantee that kind of money to him? I wouldn't..$25 million guaranteed? Sure. I wouldn't take the chance on much more..You guys can believe the incident changed his life around (of vourse to some extent he probably has) Forgive me If I'm not buying..


Hard to gauge sincerity, but listen to him talk about his appreciation for his blind father sine his incident. words are words, but since his return he's seemed like a completely changed player and his words indicate a humility most pro athletes don't have.

He'd be a core player on my team and one I'd build around.

Of course you'd have to make it work financially and there is a point where I'd say not worth it, but the numbers I've been mentioning are a no-brainer IMO.
RE: BB56  
Big Blue '56 : 12/4/2016 12:39 pm : link
In comment 13246053 hassan said:
Quote:
He will clear 14 million annually book it. Whether as a Giant or elsewhere.

Giants will need to tag him or get real about a contract and that may be hard. Having Odell at a bargain price for two more years may need to stay the case as qb and ends and Jenkins add up to a big cap number.


Yeah, I see a tag on the horizon as a possibility or even a probability. It gives them another year to see if this year was a huge contract drive on his part or legit. Can't they always tag him after next year as well? I know it doesn't help the cap with a FT hit, but at least we don't have to guarantee huge bucks, even as a front load
RE: RE: BB56  
pjcas18 : 12/4/2016 12:42 pm : link
In comment 13246058 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
In comment 13246053 hassan said:


Quote:


He will clear 14 million annually book it. Whether as a Giant or elsewhere.

Giants will need to tag him or get real about a contract and that may be hard. Having Odell at a bargain price for two more years may need to stay the case as qb and ends and Jenkins add up to a big cap number.



Yeah, I see a tag on the horizon as a possibility or even a probability. It gives them another year to see if this year was a huge contract drive on his part or legit. Can't they always tag him after next year as well? I know it doesn't help the cap with a FT hit, but at least we don't have to guarantee huge bucks, even as a front load


If they tag him two years in a row it's the equivalent of like 35M guaranteed.

Why not just give him 45 - 50M guaranteed, front load it to an extent, and potentially have him for 5 years instead of the two.
I personally wouldn't tag him that second year(does last year's  
Big Blue '56 : 12/4/2016 12:45 pm : link
count or was it rescinded and pro-rated?)..1 year would be fine with me if necessary
we need two decent DE  
fkap : 12/4/2016 12:47 pm : link
we currently have two decent DE.

let JPP go, and we have one decent DE and then absolutely nothing. JPP and Vernon aren't playing 90 + percent of snaps because we're saving the backups for the playoffs.

I'm not advocating paying JPP whatever he wants, because like BB'56, I'm not convinced he's worth it or that he'll have the same enthusiasm once signed. But, without him there's a huge, huge hole on a very critical part of our defense. IF you can get him at Vernon dollars, you've got to think about it.

Hopefully, with the readjustment of the draft committee, we'll be able to draft a cheaper alternative, but a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
RE: RE: OO and RO on the other side...  
Jimmy Googs : 12/4/2016 12:49 pm : link
In comment 13246032 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
In comment 13246029 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


I would think we would have to go DE with first round pick as we cannot rely upon either of these two guys being the de facto starter opposite Vernon.

Tough to see their future as of yet, but possibility exists that they actually don't have one in the NFL...



I just said I could live with it, if I, as a fan, had to..I also said that this D, with other parts remaining in place and continual upgrades, will not die/collapse if JPP walks.


My point is I don't think we can live with it BB56. We don't have effective pass rushers from DTs or LBs, so will need somebody reliable opposite Vernon. OO/RO could be a fatal flaw.
Look, regardless of how I feel as a fan,  
Big Blue '56 : 12/4/2016 12:50 pm : link
If they want him here, then whatever they work out I'll obviously have to accept. However, if it results in us letting Hankins ago, I will be really pissed at Reese..
I would consider using the franchise tag on him as a last resort  
Milton : 12/4/2016 12:57 pm : link
But I think they should work really hard at re-signing him before it comes to that. I don't think they need to give him what they gave Vernon. But a contract in the $15M/year range with $40-45M guaranteed should do the trick. I think he wants to stay and will give a home team discount to accomplish that. This is very, very different than two years ago.
RE: Look, regardless of how I feel as a fan,  
David in LA : 12/4/2016 3:21 pm : link
In comment 13246075 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
If they want him here, then whatever they work out I'll obviously have to accept. However, if it results in us letting Hankins ago, I will be really pissed at Reese..


They already invested heavily in Snacks. You can't keep everybody, and JPP is clearly the better player. This is a pretty dumb reason to get on Reese's ass about.
I don't think they can give him Vernon money.  
Dave in Hoboken : 12/4/2016 3:31 pm : link
Too much money invested in the same position. But anything not as big as that, I'd be okay with.
We had no problem paying Strahan and Osi.  
David in LA : 12/4/2016 3:35 pm : link
If you have two premium bookend DE's, you pay them.
We also have alot of other players to pay very soon,  
Dave in Hoboken : 12/4/2016 3:37 pm : link
Bekcham being one of them, who is going to (rightfully) get a massive contract, next year, I believe. Hankins and Pugh are FA's, too.

I'm not making any predictions or anything. It will be interesting to see how this all plays out. Maybe Cruz or Eli can take a paycut (doubtful). Hopefully, the cap increases again. That would help, too.
You have to prioritize  
David in LA : 12/4/2016 3:44 pm : link
I can't fathom the logic in going with Hankins over JPP. Hankins is young and talented, but really has one very good season to his name. JPP should be priority #1 this offseason.
I guess it depends on what other teams  
Dave in Hoboken : 12/4/2016 3:45 pm : link
are going to offer JPP, too. If a team out there offers him something crazy like Vernon money; I think it's a 50/50 proposition that JPP stays. I hope there is no team out there willing to do that.
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