...this off-season?
As of now, he has 50 tackles and 7 sacks. That projects to roughly 70 tackles and 10 sacks for the season. He also has 8 passes defensed, 3 forced fumbles and 22.5 hurries.
For comparisons, last year, Vernon had 61 and 7.5 and got that massive contract we all know about. He also had a bunch of hurries.
JPP is currently 27 so still very much in his prime. His numbers aren't JJ Watt eye-popping, but I think he's certainly playing at a high level and maybe just at or just below Pro-Bowl level (maybe I'm being a homer).
Does he stand to get a bonanza?
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Ridiculous talk here about him getting 7-8 million a year a few weeks ago. He will be close to 14-15 million annually.
Ridiculous talk here about him getting 7-8 million a year a few weeks ago. He will be close to 14-15 million annually.
14-15 annually? Possibly, but not by us, imo
So my guess is 5 years 68M with 40M guaranteed.
Something like that.
JPP has some latitude that Vernon didn't have personally in that JPP has already made ~35M in his career - just from his football contracts.
So he can be more selective (not that he will), before this year Olivier Vernon had career earnings around $3.8M to shed some perspective.
He played at a pro bowl level in 2012 played nearly every game in 2013 despite injury, even won a player of the week honor and played once again st a pro bowl level in 2014. Then played well in half a season last year.
Other than that.... no.
"How can Reese tag him when he's asleep at the wheel?"-Kivorkian
no reason not to sign him to a long-term deal at fair market value. It's a premium position in the organization. We're set up for this. QB, LT, DE and CB. It's what we do.
Remember who our Safeties were on the '86 team? Dominant DE's make it a lot easier on the back end.
For reference - we gave JPP a $10M contract for a "prove it" deal. He's proven it now.
With respect, couldn't disagree more. He's not only come back from multiple injuries and continued to play at a high level, but he's also become a team leader who the rest of the defense looks up to.
He's going to get paid and he's worth it. I think DRC is gone, and there is some extra cap money available. And yes, CB continues to be a need as it is every season, we will have JJ, Apple, and some JAGs after that, and will need more talented depth.
no reason not to sign him to a long-term deal at fair market value. It's a premium position in the organization. We're set up for this. QB, LT, DE and CB. It's what we do.
Remember who our Safeties were on the '86 team? Dominant DE's make it a lot easier on the back end.
For reference - we gave JPP a $10M contract for a "prove it" deal. He's proven it now.
We'd be dicks if we tagged him? Seriously?
So JPP will be coming in around Vernon, there is no way around it. He's at least equal if not better player, he knows it, the Giants know it and so does the rest of the NFL.
and yes, the tag is insulting. $15M or $50M? Dick is kind
There are possibilities......DRC and Cruz...cut or pay cut? If cut, you have to replace them....
Then there is Hankins.....
Resigning JPP to a big contract, puts close to half your cap in the hands of 6 players......
This offense needs help next year, and will cost some bucks....
It would be criminal and stupid to cut him.
I would literally not be a Giants fan anymore if they cut him and next year he was still really good. He's by far my favorite Giant from the last few years on D. Bargain contract too.
Cruz is the man who gets cut first as a casualty, then maybe Harris...
Cutting DRC is by far the dumbest thing i see on a semi regular basis on BBI in its history.
He has a year left, is arguably our best CB and even DB. His speed is still top flight and even has shown he can play the slot. Plus Apple still needs ATLEAST another year to grow into the stud he can be.
Sorry but nothing makes me more angry on BBI then the cut DRC crowd. So stupid, cutting Cruz saves a few mill and he's over the hill. DRC plays at a pro bowl level on a bargain contract.
Easily Reese's best FA signing. Makes letting Linval go for him much much less painful
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He will be 31....for the most part he has been healthy this year, but the year before he was out a lot....
If you NEED the money for moves, AND you think Apple is ready, and you have a plan to get that third corner to replace him, then it is a possibility....
I'm not saying just cut him.....you don't just cut guys without having a replacement plan....I'm sure if the Giants feel he has something left in the tank for next year, he will be back.....
I know he's over 30 but his speed is still elite and his coverage is phenomenal. Also quite a leader out there.
Apple will be good, but there's zero benefit to cutting DRC zero. Unless he declines a lot. Which he's shown no signs of doing.
Having 3 highly talented CBs is needed. DRC is a bargain deal.
Cruz, Jennings and even Vereen all can be cut before DRC.
I will be so mad at the Giants if DRC is cut and performs well elsewhere. The Cowboys or Skins would sign him an a nano second too just to make it even worse.
We have plenty of cap room to sign JPP, Hankins, lock up one of the other guys a year early and round out a few spots via mod tier FA.
Cutting DRC would cause me to jump off a bridge, not literally.
As I recall, despite all the spending last year, we're not in terrible cap territory. I don't follow the cap real close and I don't know how reputable OvertheCap.com is, but according to its founder:
With the current cap space estimate of $23 million, Fitzgerald said the Giants still have more money than most teams, despite their big spending to start free agency.
“They should still be around the top 10 in cap room despite all the spending,” Fitzgerald said. “The Giants had huge cap room to start the year so they still have plenty to spare.”
Someone can correct me if this guy is off the wall.
Of course they have to take into account how well JPP plays in the crucial games that will decide this season, but over the last few weeks he's been insane, chasing quarterbacks all over the place and bringing them down.
The guy even blocked an important field goal attempt. How many defensive linemen block field goals?
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that eats up over 50% of the cap space. and that is really just being a dick now after everything he's been through. either sign him or let him get paid
no reason not to sign him to a long-term deal at fair market value. It's a premium position in the organization. We're set up for this. QB, LT, DE and CB. It's what we do.
Remember who our Safeties were on the '86 team? Dominant DE's make it a lot easier on the back end.
For reference - we gave JPP a $10M contract for a "prove it" deal. He's proven it now.
We'd be dicks if we tagged him? Seriously?
Stop bullshitting...the guy is better, more impactful, bigger and more physical then OLIVIER Vernon...the correct contract based on a this obvious fact is probably $1.5-2.0 million more annually then Vernon...based on the fact that he is 2 years older but about to enter his prime...the Giants should go 4 years no more then 5 years...with the guaranteed amount equivalent to Vernon but prorated based on years...what pisses me off is guys on this board telling us their "feelings" on what JPP while totally disrespecting this player...it's time to stop bull shitting and go to JPP with the right contract otherwise we risk watching JERRY JONES announcing JPP in March of 2017 as a member of the Dallas Cowboys...Vomit!!!!
The guy is playing Great football and is still learning how to play again with his injury. He has not only become a leader on this team but also become an inspiration for others not only on this team but outside the game for people dealing with handicaps. IMV I believe OV said it best in the most recent Papa cast segment when asked about his injury he has been dealing with this season by saying how can I complain about what I have been going through when I look at the other end of the line and see what JPP has been through?
He is one of the best run stuffers in the league, is always pressuring the QB regardless of sack totals. He deserves to be paid top DE money. The few that say when he gets paid he will become lazy again are kidding themselves he has had one really bad year in 2013 but missed 5 games that season he played 8 games last year and damn near beat his totals from that season with a club hand.
Pay the man he deserves it. Arm chair GM’s and bitter old fans that can’t move on please STFU your shtick is old.
So now were not gonna re-sign him ? Really ? Who would replace
him Owa , Wynn Okawara ?
Our attempts in drafting defensive linemen have been hit or miss . We did nicely with Linvil Joeseph who we didn't keep
is still playing at a high level . We took Marvin Austin and
he was a complete bust . We took Damontre Moore who as of
now is another complete bust . We took Johnathin Hankins
who looks to be decent player and probably will be let go .
The added Jay Bromley who seemingly has been passed up by
a journeyman Robert Thomas .We most recently took Owamagbe Odigizuwa who at this point in time has shown very little
really and may be surpassed by an undrafted Okwara .
You keep JPP he is a high end two way DE that makes plays
at the end of games . If it comes down to money then
guys like DRC and Big Hank will most likely be let go and
Cruz be restructured . We won't be drafting high enough
to get a stud pass rusher or be able to afford one in
free agency . Eli's window is getting smaller we shouldn't
screw around thinking he will remain good 4-5 years from
now .
Vernon has nothing to do with any of this so stop comparing the two. The question will be what does other teams feel he is worth? I understand he has had two great weeks in a row but Chicago and Cleveland O-line are not that good. Also give credit to the CBs on some of the plays as well they are top notch. That said I hope we sing him to 4 years in the 10 -12mill per season. 10 Mill is the top 4 DE in a 4-3 defense.
Even if they franchise tag him I see no problem with that and don't think its unfair.
I know having these guys in 4-3 is different because of their run responsibilities too, but just asking if anybody has data of teams with tow-highest two-man pass rushing salaries.
Vernon was born October 1990
JPP was born January 1989
JPP is getting paid big big money this offseason if he keeps playing how he has been. There is pretty much no way around it. His contract shouldn't be higher than Vernon's but it very well could be.
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As much as it pains me, yes VC, is a likely cap victim.
We weren't his only choice. There were other teams that wanted to give him a chance. I don't remember which teams and the details of the offers. But he wanted to be a Giant and prove that he was capable. The organization and he took an equal risk. He won and so did the Giants. He should be paid his market value. Screw the Hometown discount. JPP did his job. Mara needs to delegate to the others to do theirs.
JPP will be 28 in several weeks
JPP, sans a total meltdown, is getting Vernon dollars. Whether it's from the Giants or someone else remains to be seen.
Hindsight being 20/20, the Giants would have been so much better off having given him that 10-12 mil a year contract he wanted 2 years ago. I still am a bit leery about his enthusiasm year in year out, but there's no denying that he is far better than anything else we've produced or acquired (jury being out on Vernon because of an alleged injury)
Agreed..Our team with OV on one side, OO and RO on the other with our anchors in the middle will survive..We'll draft well and sign FAs as needed..JPP will not cause this D to collapse.If we sign him and let Hankins go, I'll be super, super pissed..Keep both or let JPP go if he expects the moon.
drafting someone or using OO or RO opposite Vernon has flashbacks for me of last year with Ayers on one side before JPP returned. Awful.
Tough to see their future as of yet, but possibility exists that they actually don't have one in the NFL...
drafting someone or using OO or RO opposite Vernon has flashbacks for me of last year with Ayers on one side before JPP returned. Awful.
I have a problem with HUGE guaranteed money for JPP. If it's doable and will allow us to re-sign Hankins and other OL FAs(if young and available), that's fine..Minority opinion or not, I don't believe he will perform well AFTER he gets the big bucks..I'm not a fan of JPP, that's no secret, but I certainly wouldn't cut off my nose to spite my face. If he can be signed for non-sky high dollars, then go for it..
Tough to see their future as of yet, but possibility exists that they actually don't have one in the NFL...
I just said I could live with it, if I, as a fan, had to..I also said that this D, with other parts remaining in place and continual upgrades, will not die/collapse if JPP walks.
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need a "championship" D before ELi's window closes.
drafting someone or using OO or RO opposite Vernon has flashbacks for me of last year with Ayers on one side before JPP returned. Awful.
I have a problem with HUGE guaranteed money for JPP. If it's doable and will allow us to re-sign Hankins and other OL FAs(if young and available), that's fine..Minority opinion or not, I don't believe he will perform well AFTER he gets the big bucks..I'm not a fan of JPP, that's no secret, but I certainly wouldn't cut off my nose to spite my face. If he can be signed for non-sky high dollars, then go for it..
Nothing is guaranteed (no pun intended), but I believe the fireworks incident humbled him if you believe him and have listened to any interviews he's given.
I have no problem with 40-50M guaranteed to him though I'd front load it to the extent possible.
The defense is really just a player or two away from being legit elite IMO and I hate going into the draft saying "we'll draft position X in the first round or rely on the drafted player to start" even if that's the case, it's a crapshoot.
The Giants should use the tag if they have to, but it's not the first choice IMO.
Giants will need to tag him or get real about a contract and that may be hard. Having Odell at a bargain price for two more years may need to stay the case as qb and ends and Jenkins add up to a big cap number.
Hard to gauge sincerity, but listen to him talk about his appreciation for his blind father sine his incident. words are words, but since his return he's seemed like a completely changed player and his words indicate a humility most pro athletes don't have.
He'd be a core player on my team and one I'd build around.
Of course you'd have to make it work financially and there is a point where I'd say not worth it, but the numbers I've been mentioning are a no-brainer IMO.
Giants will need to tag him or get real about a contract and that may be hard. Having Odell at a bargain price for two more years may need to stay the case as qb and ends and Jenkins add up to a big cap number.
Yeah, I see a tag on the horizon as a possibility or even a probability. It gives them another year to see if this year was a huge contract drive on his part or legit. Can't they always tag him after next year as well? I know it doesn't help the cap with a FT hit, but at least we don't have to guarantee huge bucks, even as a front load
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He will clear 14 million annually book it. Whether as a Giant or elsewhere.
Giants will need to tag him or get real about a contract and that may be hard. Having Odell at a bargain price for two more years may need to stay the case as qb and ends and Jenkins add up to a big cap number.
Yeah, I see a tag on the horizon as a possibility or even a probability. It gives them another year to see if this year was a huge contract drive on his part or legit. Can't they always tag him after next year as well? I know it doesn't help the cap with a FT hit, but at least we don't have to guarantee huge bucks, even as a front load
If they tag him two years in a row it's the equivalent of like 35M guaranteed.
Why not just give him 45 - 50M guaranteed, front load it to an extent, and potentially have him for 5 years instead of the two.
let JPP go, and we have one decent DE and then absolutely nothing. JPP and Vernon aren't playing 90 + percent of snaps because we're saving the backups for the playoffs.
I'm not advocating paying JPP whatever he wants, because like BB'56, I'm not convinced he's worth it or that he'll have the same enthusiasm once signed. But, without him there's a huge, huge hole on a very critical part of our defense. IF you can get him at Vernon dollars, you've got to think about it.
Hopefully, with the readjustment of the draft committee, we'll be able to draft a cheaper alternative, but a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
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I would think we would have to go DE with first round pick as we cannot rely upon either of these two guys being the de facto starter opposite Vernon.
Tough to see their future as of yet, but possibility exists that they actually don't have one in the NFL...
I just said I could live with it, if I, as a fan, had to..I also said that this D, with other parts remaining in place and continual upgrades, will not die/collapse if JPP walks.
My point is I don't think we can live with it BB56. We don't have effective pass rushers from DTs or LBs, so will need somebody reliable opposite Vernon. OO/RO could be a fatal flaw.
They already invested heavily in Snacks. You can't keep everybody, and JPP is clearly the better player. This is a pretty dumb reason to get on Reese's ass about.
I'm not making any predictions or anything. It will be interesting to see how this all plays out. Maybe Cruz or Eli can take a paycut (doubtful). Hopefully, the cap increases again. That would help, too.